Note this article- it is a clear example of how otherwise hostile Abrahamists shift blame on the 'violent' Buddhism and Hinduism -- their common ideological enemy. They also try to point how the Abrahamists are victimized by the 'Aryans'. All this is a specialized discourse that most Hindus are absolutely clueless about. Beware of such attempts at Abrahamic solidarity against the pagan.
Secular India which never protested at the Ethnic Cleansing of Hindus in a Genocide of Holocaust Proportions in East Pakistan â Bangladesh in the last Fifty Years or the Destruction of Hindu Temples in Pakistan â Bangladesh and has never taken any action against M F Hussain for his various Nude Paintings of Hindu Goddesses now SHOWS ITS CONCERN OVER THE Cartoon Issue :
02-13-2006, 01:42 AM (This post was last modified: 02-13-2006, 01:43 AM by ravish.)
Nareshji,my two submissions are above.Your contention is partially correct. The fact is that our protests on the destruction of temples in Pakistan and Bangladesh were not effective enough to be taken note of by the respective Governments. The Indian Diaspora in UK with their Lordships included did not considered it to be a worthy cause to even send a small delegation of 50 persons , to submit a memorendum to the High Commisssioners of Pakistan and Bangladesh in the United Kingdom. Neither any major demonstration took place in India that I can remember .The fault lies in us and not on the Government.
02-13-2006, 02:31 AM (This post was last modified: 02-13-2006, 02:32 AM by ravish.)
The article is very well written after in depth study of the historical facts. Many historians may dispute the conclusions drawn by the author. However, as a ordinary individual I don't consider myself competent to give a critical assessment on the findings made in the article.
Powerful Western rhetoric notwithstanding, political Islam is not a stateless entity with mindless hatred for non-Muslim societies. The sub-text of the Saudi monarch's recent visit to India suggests that the keeper of Islam's two holiest shrines may be steering his country away from the sterile Wahabi Islam that has given his faith a bad name the world over.
More significantly, King Abdullah may have realised that while Islam is the only major religion standing openly in the international public arena (others having retreated under pressure of a new Christian god called secularism), it is therefore as vulnerable to attack as the pillars of Mina. Among colonised peoples of the nineteenth and twentieth centuries, Muslims have suffered the worst humiliation, with puppet regimes hoisted upon imposed borders, in service of Western economic and strategic interests. When leaders like Saddam Hussain and the Iranian Ayatollahs tried to challenge this covert imperialism, they fell foul of the old colonial-corporate mullahs.
The quiet dignity with which the King avoided the politically dicey (for him) visit to Rajghat eclipsed many significant acts of omission and commission. No Hurriyat leader camped in Delhi to apprise the Saudi royal of the sufferings of the Kashmiri people (read Muslims). In fact, seditious Kashmiris surface only at the bidding of Pakistani, American and British leaders, and this should make it evident that far from being an Indo-Pak dispute, Kashmir is a legacy of colonialism.
Refuse to entertain Britain and America, and the problem will resolve itself. The contrived controversy over Saudi aid to restore Jama Masjid fizzled out, and I think that more than deft handling by the MEA, it was the Saudi embassy that spoke a few quiet words of wisdom to Indian co-religionists. Thus, the richest and most eminent Muslim monarch came, and Indian Muslims had nothing to whine about to him!
More astounding is King Abdullah's statement that India is his second home. Can Al-Hind be Dar-ul Islam? This was no polite noise, but Indian analysts missed its significance. I think the King has protected Islam's flanks in the emerging third crusade with political Christianity, and has quietly intervened in the Western strategy of inciting Islamic groups to bleed a predominantly Hindu India (via Pakistan and ISI-controlled Bangladesh), while western military-economic machines trample over Muslim lands.
If India is 'home' to the guardian of Islam's holiest shrines, it means India is being invited not to join the crusade against Islam, and Islamic nations are being given the signal to stay focused against political Christianity and its menacing presence in the Muslim world.
I say this because for the first time since the end of the second World War, a major controversy concerning Islam, in the form of insulting cartoons published by Danish newspaper Jyllands Posten in September 2005, has not led to violence in India.
Having grown up hearing the excuse that Muslim grievances over Palestine caused this or that violent incident; having witnessed India being made the site of sponsored Muslim rage over The Satanic Verses, which then spread to other parts of the globe, the present situation is unprecedented. The cartoons led several Muslim nations to recall their envoys from Denmark, while a boycott of Danish goods provoked sharp rebuke from the European Union, which is surely a political ex-pression of support for the offensive caricatures of Prophet Mohammad.
The cartoons were an intentional act of religious disrespect by political Christianity, comprising the socio-economic-political elites of Europe and America. The culture editor of Jyllands Posten let the cat out of the bag saying the critical issue was the integration of immigrant Muslims and Islam's compatibility with modern secular society. This simply means that Muslims living in white Christian lands must discard their Islamic identities and conform to a Christian ethos; Pope Benedict XVI has sought conversion of European Muslims to Christianity.
Secularism is Christianity's schizophrenic twin; it enables Christian powers to pretend religious indifference while pushing their political agendas in non-Christian societies. Just as the separation of church and state in the past created Western political and intellectual elites who could more successfully execute the Christian quest for world dominion, so the ideology of secularism served to delegitimise the native traditions of non-Christian countries. That is why West-promoted secular elites in politics and academics have been so consistently hostile to India's Hindu ethos. Secularism does not mean neutrality towards religion, but involves active hatred of traditions that could blockade Christian political, economic and intellectual supremacy.
<b>Conversions are necessary to procure greater subservience of the natives. </b>This is the reason why all so-called secular Christian nations have a budget for overseas evangelism, which is nothing but an offensive intrusion in the internal affairs of non-Christian cultures. In India, secularism ridiculed Hindu anxiety over missionary activity and promoted Muslim separatism through personal laws that gave the most obscurantist elements power over the entire community.
The cartoon controversy was deliberately aggravated by a Norwegian Christian magazine which republished them last month; one showed the Prophet wearing a bomb-shaped turban. When Muslims objected, a united Europe republished the cartoons simultaneously on February 1, 2006, which is a powerful political snub. Moreover, the timing coincides with the Euro-American assault on Iran's nuclear programme. Interestingly, Salman Rushdie received a staggering advance to demonize Ayatollah Khomeini for deposing the darling of American oil companies. Rushdie went further and distastefully placed women named after the Prophet's wives in a brothel.
<b>
I sincerely hope pious Indian Muslims will now understand the Hindu sense of hurt at MF Hussain's hate-filled depictions of Hindu goddesses (secular Muslims are shameless hypocrites). They should also gracefully accept the judicious rules of coexistence that sanatan dharma places upon all social beings.</b>
The genesis of the predominantly American initiative to corner Iran reportedly lies in President Ahmadinejad's plans to open an oil bourse based on the euro rather than the dollar, and Israeli intelligence's belief that by March 2006, Iran would reach the "point of no return" in terms of technical expertise to enrich uranium in quantities needed to build a nuclear warhead. Before he fell sick, prime minister Ariel Sharon had asked his forces to prepare for possible strikes on secret uranium enrichment sites in Iran.
Israel's eagerness for diplomatic relations with Pakistan, mother lode of nomadic terrorism, is part of a Western strategy to contain proud Islamic nations that seek agency for their people. Yet larger forces may compel President Musharraf to stand by his co-religionists.
<b>Mr Ahmadinejad's defiance in the face of referral to the Security Council raises suspicions of covert support from powerful Islamic countries and at least one major regional power.</b> The international community must be vigilant against a Euro-American conspiracy to destroy the political dignity, financial viability and military might of oil-rich Islam.
Eminent Americans like Mr Robert M Bowman, former director of the US Star Wars space defence programme, believe that the manner in which the Twin Towers in New York fell indicates synergy between mercenary jihadis and domestic political terrorists, as the buildings could not have collapsed upon themselves unless explosives had been placed at strategic places and set off simultaneously via remote control. If there is an iota of truth in this assessment, the world has a duty to ask if the Euro-American crusade against Islam should be dignified by international consent. http://dailypioneer.com/columnist1.asp?mai...txt&writer=jain
whoa !!! check out this line from that passage (quoted from vivekananda) -
""Manu's name for the whole central region between the Himalayas and the Vindhya mountains is Aryavarta, Abode of the Aryans.""
<b>would someone please give the explaination of that??</b>
it couldnt be that vivekananda would fall for christian-colonial hogwash - not because he was vivekananda, but because that (^^^) wasn't his opinion, but came from Manu, recorded most likely in the puranas. so what gives??
02-13-2006, 06:21 AM (This post was last modified: 02-13-2006, 06:22 AM by Sunder.)
<!--QuoteBegin-ben_ami+Feb 13 2006, 05:57 AM-->QUOTE(ben_ami @ Feb 13 2006, 05:57 AM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->whoa !!! check out this line from that passage (quoted from vivekananda) -
""Manu's name for the whole central region between the Himalayas and the Vindhya mountains is Aryavarta, Abode of the Aryans.""
<b>would someone please give the explaination of that??</b>
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Georg Bühler's translation of Manusmrti, Oxford 1886 (public domain)
2.17. That land, created by the gods, which lies between the two divine rivers Sarasvati and Drishadvati, the (sages) call Brahmavarta.
2.18. The custom handed down in regular succession (since time immemorial) among the four varna and the mixed varnas of that country, is called the conduct of virtuous men.
2.19. The plain of the Kurus, the (country of the) Matsyas, Pankalas, and Surasenakas, these form the country of the Brahmarshis (Brahmanical sages, which ranks) immediately after Brahmavarta.
2.20. From a Brahmana, born in that country, let all men on earth learn their several usages.
2.21. That country which lies between the Himavat and the Vindhya (mountains) to the east of Prayaga and to the west of Vinasana (the place where the river Sarasvati disappears) is called Madhyadesa (the central region).
<b>2.22. But (the tract) between those two mountains (just mentioned), which (extends) as far as the eastern and the western oceans, the wise call Aryavarta.</b>
2.23. That land where the black antelope naturally roams, one must know to be fit for the performance of sacrifices; (the tract) different from that (is) the country of the Mlecchas (barbarians).
"I sincerely hope pious Indian Muslims will now understand the Hindu sense of hurt at MF Hussain's hate-filled depictions of Hindu goddesses (secular Muslims are shameless hypocrites). They should also gracefully accept the judicious rules of coexistence that sanatan dharma places upon all social beings."
And the same old thing is repeated again and again, firstly Hussain himself is doing unacceptable things by paintaing people according to Islam, in other words even though his paintings are an insult to Hindus they are still not Islamic, he would probably be punished with lashes in Islamic countries because in Islam paintings of humans or animals are not permitted. Next Muslims cannot and will not accept "the judicious rules of coexistence that sanatan dharma places upon all social beings" because then they will cease to be Muslims if they do, after over a 1000 years of conflict with Muslims if Hindus still do not realise this then God save us. They will not rest until Hindus are crushed under the Islamic juggernaut and a worldwide khilafa is established and all traces of kufr are eliminated from the face of the earth, either Hindus should do something or perish, one day the situation will explode like a dynamite in the face of Hindu society and that day is not far off.
<!--QuoteBegin-Sunder+Feb 13 2006, 06:21 AM-->QUOTE(Sunder @ Feb 13 2006, 06:21 AM)<!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-ben_ami+Feb 13 2006, 05:57 AM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(ben_ami @ Feb 13 2006, 05:57 AM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->whoa !!! check out this line from that passage (quoted from vivekananda) -
""Manu's name for the whole central region between the Himalayas and the Vindhya mountains is Aryavarta, Abode of the Aryans.""
<b>would someone please give the explaination of that??</b>
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Georg Bühler's translation of Manusmrti, Oxford 1886 (public domain)
2.17. That land, created by the gods, which lies between the two divine rivers Sarasvati and Drishadvati, the (sages) call Brahmavarta.
2.18. The custom handed down in regular succession (since time immemorial) among the four varna and the mixed varnas of that country, is called the conduct of virtuous men.
2.19. The plain of the Kurus, the (country of the) Matsyas, Pankalas, and Surasenakas, these form the country of the Brahmarshis (Brahmanical sages, which ranks) immediately after Brahmavarta.
2.20. From a Brahmana, born in that country, let all men on earth learn their several usages.
2.21. That country which lies between the Himavat and the Vindhya (mountains) to the east of Prayaga and to the west of Vinasana (the place where the river Sarasvati disappears) is called Madhyadesa (the central region).
<b>2.22. But (the tract) between those two mountains (just mentioned), which (extends) as far as the eastern and the western oceans, the wise call Aryavarta.</b>
2.23. That land where the black antelope naturally roams, one must know to be fit for the performance of sacrifices; (the tract) different from that (is) the country of the Mlecchas (barbarians).
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thanks for the reply. though i am presently surprised to see that a translation by a foreigner was deemed fit.
but please explain 2.21. if i got it right it means, the land between himalaya (northern boundary), vindya (south), prayag (east) and vinasana (west) is called the madhyadesh.
and as an aside, in 2.23, where exactly is this land of Mlechhas/land where the black antelope roams?? is it in india??
Without naming any names please note that when there was wanton destruction of Hindu Temples in Pakistan and Bangladesh in the wake of the removal of the disused ruins of the Babri Mosque <b>various</b> Lords and Ladies consulted the Indian Powers that be as to how best they should bring it to the notice of the British as well as the Indian People.
The Government of Indiaâs Response was that India was a Secular Nation and therefore could not get embroiled in a âReligiousâ incident.
yes and based on the previous post, i think we indians should continue to believe that we are under some foreign power.
till a rss inspired bjp govt comes to the centre - and for good, till we get ucc, till we get the main (at least) temples back, till missionaries are kicked out of india, etc we should never fool ourselves into believing that we are truely independent and that india retains a totally indian character.
till the above happens and esp as long as the progeny of the last englishman in india remains on the peacock throne, we will continue to be let down, on aspects ranging from religion, culture, sovreignity, classical language, heritage et al. mf hussain may be given the bhart ratna soon for all we know.
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Pakistani viewpoint
Letter to the Editor
Dear Editor,
I was saddened to read the letter of Javed Altaf in the Milpitas Post dated Feb 2, <b>"Text clashes extremist, moderate Hindus." </b>As a woman from Pakistan who immigrated to the United States, I would like to tell everyone that there are people in Pakistan who do not show such hatred toward others.
<b>I grew up in Pakistan and we were always taught to hate India, Israel and America. Our school books described Christians, Jews and Hindus as evil people, and unfortunately most Pakistanis exhibit a lot of hatred because of this.</b> I was ashamed when Pakistanis celebrated on the streets after innocent people were killed in the Sept. 11 attacks.<b> Even when I got my passport, I had to sign a statement on the application form that I consider the leader of Qadiani group of Muslims to be an imposter and his followers to be non-Muslim. I felt uncomfortable signing it as I somehow thought it is a hateful thing to do.</b> To all Qadiani brothers and sisters, I wish to apologize on behalf of Pakistanis and say I am truly sorry I signed the statement.
Fortunately, I had the chance to leave Pakistan and find freedom in America. Now, I do not have to cover myself with a burqa.
I learned that one can be a good person even without being a Muslim and I got the confidence to question Islam. <b>Islam is an artificial religion of medieval Arabs.</b> Why should I accept any religion that forces me to wear a burqa and prevents my education?
<b>Mr. Altaf's letter talks about caste system in India. I want to point out that the caste system is alive and well in Pakistan as well. It is hypocritical of Pakistanis to talk of a caste system</b>.
The people of Pakistan are no different from the people of India except that we are born into Islam. <b>This unfortunate difference gave birth to Pakistan, which has the dishonor of being created as the world's first religion-based country</b>. We should never have left India because forming a country based on religion tells the world that we are hateful people. Please tell your readers that not all Pakistanis are hateful people.
Ironically, my own life has been one where the differences between Indians and Pakistanis have been buried.<b> After leaving Islam, I searched for spiritual peace and met a wonderful man who is a Hindu from India. Today, he is my husband and I find that I have a lot of freedom. Women in Islam do not have any freedom and four women are considered to be equal to one man</b>. I realize that I would not have had the opportunity to meet my husband had I not come to America and got my freedom. There are many women like me who long for freedom. I sincerely wish I could do something for my sisters or that America would liberate my sisters but without hurting the people.
Do u think it is a valid excuse? i am not sure the Indian Government of the day has so much control on the people under ref.Anyway, let us move forward and see how and what can be done in the future.
<!--QuoteBegin-Ravish+Feb 14 2006, 03:27 PM-->QUOTE(Ravish @ Feb 14 2006, 03:27 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->Do u think it is a valid excuse? i am not sure the Indian Government of the day has so much control on the people under ref.Anyway, let us move forward and see how and what can be done in the future.
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<b>Ravish Ji :</b>
I assure you of the "Delegation" which visited those who have to be visited and they were reminded of the inability of the Government of India to take up a Religious Cause.
I, for one, agreed to the Government of Indiaâs stand at that time for the simple reason that India is a Secular State.
It is strange that now the Government has showed its concern over the Cartoon Issue.
I agree with you that there is no point in delving in the past â except as a reference â and try and improve things in the future.
<b>There have been instances in India itself which had been quite detrimental to Hindu faith. The problem is that despite the availability of legal provisions to deal with the matter, very few legal actions have ever been instituted by the members of the public. It is quite understandable, that the Government on its own may not move as it wants to keep its entire vote bank intact. However, there is nothing to prevent the members of the public from going directly for legal remedies, at least as the law stands in India. I am not fully conversant with the legal provisions in the United Kingdom and rest of Europe.
</b>
<b>
<!--c1-->CODE<!--ec1-->
Undivided India
Percent of Total Population in Each Religion 1881-1941
         Hindu   Muslim
1881 Â Â Â Â Â Â Â 78.09 Â Â 19.97
1891 Â Â Â Â Â Â Â 74.24 Â Â 20.41
1901 Â Â Â Â Â Â Â 72.87 Â Â 21.88
1911 Â Â Â Â Â Â Â 71.68 Â Â 22.39
1921 Â Â Â Â Â Â Â 70.73 Â Â 23.23
1931 Â Â Â Â Â Â Â 70.67 Â Â 23.49
1941 Â Â Â Â Â Â Â 69.46 Â Â 24.28 Â [1]
***
***
[2]
     Millions (1988 est.)   Hindu  Muslim (1982)
India     796.60          78.8%   11.6%
Bangladesh  104.53          12.7   85.9
Pakistan   105.41          1.3   96.8
adding another line to the first table:
India + Bangladesh + Pakistan
        Hindu   Muslim
1980s       63.8    28.2
***
[1] : Davis Kingsley, The Population of India and Pakistan, ~1951.
[2] : Economist Book of Vital World Statistics, 1990
<!--c2--><!--ec2--></b>
<b>Cartoon row: Indian sailor beaten to death in UAE</b><!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->An Indian sailor was allegedly beaten to death by his colleagues on board a Norwegian oil tanker in the international waters off the coast of Fujairah in the UAE.
.............
Official sources confirmed the death of 31-year-old Sudheer Nonia Jagannathan, hailing from Mumbai, but refused to comment on the issue.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Indian secular Muslim at its best. Religion of peace.
--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->