Many Europeans are challenging me to a debate on the origins of the Rgveda.
They claim that it was the Europeans who came up with this book.
They say that this is self evident from certain passages in the book.
I would like to invite them to come here and debate with us, so that the erudite scholars here can clarify their claims.
I am requesting your permission to start this thread.
If you feel this thread is not in keeping with the guidelines of the forum, feel free to delete it.
I want to hear the reasons why they think they came up with the Rg in the first place.Never mind that there is not a single European who can do a half decent job of chanting the RG. Even MaxMueller with all his alleged knowledge of Samskrtam purportedly could not decipher a sloka when it was chanted by his Hindu visitor in his own office.
It all started with a series of posts on the white nationalist board called stormfront.org. Here are three threads on the subject. Some of then turned into a free for all fight :-
mitradena ,
They are referring Dalitstan and paki website both are anti Hindu/India websites.
OM Motif is nice.
There is difference between Hindu Swastika sign and Hitlers Swastika.
The word Svastika occurs only in Sanskrit. If the Germans claim the svastika as their own, then why did they "forget" about it for more than 3000 years?
Why suddenly in the 20th century did they remember their "aryan" heritage?
In a history book on India , the western author has made good use of translations from vedas , which obviously are far correct and accused the vedas of containing many bad verses.
Someone in India , has to make correct translations and make'em famous and shut up max muller enthus for once.
Who the f*ck* is behind is dstan website ?
I find many pakis using the site for references!
what a load of rubbish, when we were composing rg veda, they must probably be rubbing stones to get fire as neandrathals.!!! <!--emo&:furious--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/furious.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='furious.gif' /><!--endemo-->
They can only compose rg veda in thier dreams. <!--emo&:devil--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/devilsmiley.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='devilsmiley.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->I want to hear the reasons why they think they came up with the Rg in the first place.Never mind that there is not a single European who can do a half decent job of chanting the RG. Even MaxMueller with all his alleged knowledge of Samskrtam purportedly could not decipher a sloka when it was chanted by his Hindu visitor in his own office.
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is absolutely true.
No "Sanskrit scholar" of Europe has ever been able to pronounce a single samskrta word correctly.
I have seen Whites studying Samskrtam with me, struggle to even say "Raama" correctly.
Samskrtam has 16 vowels, more than any other language on Earth.
Its grammar is precisely defined and the pronunciation of its words is defined accurately.
Whites cannot even pronounce Indian names correctly. This fact alone speaks volumes about their claims on the Rgveda.
It is funny to see the "Nordic" barbarians still trying to find their "raison dieter". The german interest in Samskritha and "Aryan" theories was inspired by their feeling worthless during the colonial times when the British and the French dominated the scene. They tried to lay claim to any greatness they could find. One of them is the Vedic heritage. The other was the Olympic heritage of the Greeks which Hitler tried to appropriate (there was a PBS documentary on this).
Strange how the Euros think Blond hair and blue eyes makes them the master race. During the Roman Empire, these were considered as barbarian characteristics, while the darker skinned color was associated with the East and wealth and power.
As someone pointed out, Euro's dumped their heritage in a heartbeat, adopting a semitic religion . We on the other hand still retain our heritage after 5000+ years.
These folks on stormfront that claim the vedic heritage as their own, how come they don't convert to the vedic religion, learn sanskrit etc.., because they can't !
Our ancestors taught civilization to those euro savages. Why are the oldest euro civlizations in southern darker skinned europe, why not in the blonde master race areas ?
Their propaganda raises more questions than answers.
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->As someone pointed out, Euro's dumped their heritage in a heartbeat, adopting a semitic religion . We on the other hand still retain our heritage after 5000+ years.
These folks on stormfront that claim the vedic heritage as their own, how come they don't convert to the vedic religion, learn sanskrit etc.., because they can't !
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Good point.
The big question is why did the Europeans dump their Germanic Gods and adopt a semetic religion - Christianity?
If their IQ is as high as they claim, surely they should have defended their traditions and would not have allowed semetic Christianity to corrupt their culture?
Why do the Nordic Europeans give semetic names like John, Joseph, Benjamin, Michael etc to their kids. Why not traditional Germanic names like Beowulf, Thor, Odin or Wolfgang?
<!--QuoteBegin-nachiketa+Nov 21 2004, 03:42 AM-->QUOTE(nachiketa @ Nov 21 2004, 03:42 AM)<!--QuoteEBegin--> It is funny to see the "Nordic" barbarians still trying to find their "raison dieter". The german interest in Samskritha and "Aryan" theories was inspired by their feeling worthless during the colonial times when the British and the French dominated the scene. They tried to lay claim to any greatness they could find. One of them is the Vedic heritage. The other was the Olympic heritage of the Greeks which Hitler tried to appropriate (there was a PBS documentary on this).
Poor dogs. <!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The german unificaton in 1875 was a a result of enlightenment during the colonial period. One of the reasons given is that they discovered aryanism.
The psychological transformation to imagine oneself as Aryan is key to the whole phenonemonon of adopting aryan religion and language.
Now they are willing to completely disowe the origin in India.
The current revival is because they want to bring unity and nationalism because of assult on german identity due to islamic immigration and EU identity problem.
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->t is funny to see the "Nordic" barbarians still trying to find their "raison dieter". The german interest in Samskritha and "Aryan" theories was inspired by their feeling worthless during the colonial times when the British and the French dominated the scene.
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Indeed.
The British and French used to mock the Germans and call them "Huns" and barbarians. They thought all of Central Europe had been corrupted by hunic & Turkic blood from Central Asia.
The Germans then developed an inferiority complex and tried to cover it up by stealing the Indian Vedic Aryan symbols and claiming them to be their own.
There is one clown by the name of "Savitri Devi". A German female who changed her name to an Indian name. She apparently was a devotee of Hitler and came to India and married a Bengali (whom she later left, I think)
She claims all of the Vedic heritage as her own and has the audacity to suggest that we the true Aryas are some sort of half-breed of the European.
It seems this dim witted fool wanted our culture as a tool to free Europe from the clutches of Semetic Christianity.
<!--QuoteBegin-mitradena+Nov 22 2004, 12:14 AM-->QUOTE(mitradena @ Nov 22 2004, 12:14 AM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->She claims all of the Vedic heritage as her own and has the audacity to suggest that we the true Aryas are some sort of half-breed of the European.
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I would rather be called a filthy scumbag than a half - Euro. These Euro-trash think too highly of themselves. The next century will humble them again for sure.
There are plenty of jokers all over the world, from Iran to Ireland claiming themselves to be "Aryans". It is important to set the record straight on the original land of the Aryans.
I will now provide clear irrevocable proof on the location of Aaryaavarta - the land of the Aaryas.
Here is a direct quote from Manusmrti, Chapter 2, lines 21 to 23 :-
<i>
21. That country which lies between the Himavat and the Vindhya mountains to the east of Prayaga and to the west of Vinasana (the place where the river Sarasvati disappears) is called Madhyadesa (the central region).
22. But (the tract) between those two mountains (just mentioned), which (extends) as far as the eastern and the western oceans, the wise call Aryavarta (the country of the Aryas).
23. That land where the black antelope naturally roams, one must know to be fit for the performance of sacrifices; (the tract) different from that (is) the country of the Mlecchas (barbarians).
</i>
It is fairly obvious that Aaryaavarta lies within India.
Furthermore it is clearly stated that the lands outside this region are the lands of the Mlecchas(barbarians). So all the white Europoid tribes like Yavanas (Greeks), Parthavas (Parthians), Pahlavas (an Iranian tribe) and red haired Scythians and Tocharians are all barbarians unfit to be called Aryan.
<b>It is also interesting to note that skin color is not mentioned even once in the entire Manusmrti.</b>
It is also very important to note that the Black antelope is a species that is found only in India. It is not found in Central Asia, Iran or Europe. This is further proof that Aaryaavarta is in India.
Language and physical appearance are also not the criteria for being and Aarya.
Manusmrti, chapter 10 :-
<i>
45. All those tribes in this world, which are excluded from (the community of) those born from the mouth, the arms, the thighs, and the feet (of Brahman), are called Dasyus, whether they speak the language of the Mlecchas (barbarians) or that of the Aryans.
</i>
Dasyu mean thief or bandit. All Iranians and Europeans are Dasyus, since they are not part of the 4-fold varna system. The fact that many of them speak an "Indo-European" language makes no difference. They cannot claim themselves to be an Aarya.
<i>
57. A man of impure origin, who belongs not to any varna, whose character is not known, who, though not an Aryan, has the appearance of an Aryan, one may discover by his acts.
58. Behaviour unworthy of an Aryan, harshness, cruelty, and habitual neglect of the prescribed duties betray in this world a man of impure origin.
</i>
This statement is very important. Some Europeans and Iranians may look similar to Indians in physical appearance, but that does not mean they are Aryan.
Their behaviour is clearly Anaarya. They are barbaric savages who are trying to steal our Vedic heritage.
Let us now examine one of the controversial suktams from the Rgveda, namely the Indra suktam. This describes the battle between Indra and Vrtra and it has been falsely presented as a racial war.
I am not an advanced Yogi, but in my opinion this suktam represents the struggle of the Jivataman (individual soul) to realize the Paramatman (supreme soul) through the Yogic process.
In my opinion Indra represents the individual soul in the Rgveda and Vishnu represents the supreme soul. The demons called Ahis represent the various forms of Avidya which covers the Jivataman preventing it from self realization.
The word Indra means "king". The Jiva is the ruler of the physical body, the 5 karmendriyas, the 5 Jnanendriyas, manas, buddhi and citta, hence he is refered to as "Indra".
The waters refered to in this verse is the Kundalini Sakti.
The Sapta Sindhu refers to the Sushumna Nadi.
Vrtra is the foremost of these Ahis which is blocking the passage of the Kundalini Sakti from the Mulaadhara Chakra to the Sahasraara Chakra.
Soma is the divine elixir which refers to the Ananda (bliss) that the Jiva experiences after attaining Brahma jnana. Soma is also the natural state of the Atman which is ever blissful.
I request people who are advanced Yogis to examine the Indra Suktam in the light of Advaita and Kundalini Yoga.
Also scholars of Dvaita philosophy should examine the devotion that Indra has for Vishnu in the light of Bhakti Yoga.
I wonder why none of the Stormfronters didn't come here to debate with you, yet they always poke fun at the Indian visitors that try to set them straight? I suppose they only feel confident to debate with others, when they are only on that forum and when they have their buddies to back them up. If they were alone and to come here, they would probably be too scared.
The one thing that I don't understand is that why are they so adamant in reiterating the "fact" that the caste system was a racialist system to prevent whites from mixing with the lower-class "Negroid Sudras." Some Hindu poster even posted quotes from the Gita, The Mahabharata, etc that clearly stated that varnas were determined by Guna (qualities), and there was no mention of skin color or racial classficiation. Let's not forget that there are examples in the scriptures of people changing their varnas. For example, look at Valmiki, Vyasa Risi, and Vishwaamitra.
In response, this WN moron says, "Oh, the Bhagavad Gita was written much later, so it took on a softer attitude. People also changed it to make the Gita look more politically correct. Refer to the Rig Veda, and the Manusmriti for more racial attitudes." HAHAHAHAHA <!--emo&:tv--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tv_feliz.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tv_feliz.gif' /><!--endemo-->
This is a bit off topic, but it's hilarious that they just love to claim Bollywood celebrities as the "few Indians that survived the racial pollution caused by the breakdown of the caste system." All of the white people that I know can differentiate a light-skinned Indian from a European. I don't know why it's so hard for these Stormfront WN's? I guess they just can't accept the fact that a non-white person can look better than them, so they try to make up for it by saying that these people are really pure descendants of the glorious blonde-haired and blue-eyed Aryan tribe. <!--emo&--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->