Why Was There No Tranfer Of Population?

[Guest]

QAfetr Gujral loudspeakers are back.
What does that mean ?

[G.Subramaniam]

The meo miracle
-----

In 1947 the Meo muslims of Haryana marched on Delhi, intending to slaughter
the hindus
They were defeated by the Jats and expelled to Pakistan

In 1950, the moronic Vinobha went on a fast to recall them
2 lakhs of them returned to Gurgaon area

They are the center of the Taglib movement which de-indianises muslims
They deliberately keep their women illiterate so that they become baby making
machines

Their women are 98% illiterate and they produce 7 kids each
The muslim fertility gap is the highest in Haryana

Haryana which was almost muslim free in 1948 is now 8% muslim by birth

Gurgaon is also an ISI center and hindus are being slowly ethnic cleansed

---

In addition muslims are returning to Punjab
per the MD.Srinivas book, there is a deliberate islamic demographic assault in the regions they were ethnic cleansed in 1947

[Guest]

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->QAfetr Gujral loudspeakers are back.
What does that mean ? <!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Call for prayer on Loudspeaker was not permitted in Jalandhar, but after Gujral who was elected from Jalandhar, started this culture back again.
Locals are not happy and Gujral can't even think to ask vote from Jalandhar.
Major influx of muslim from Bihar, Bangladesh and Kashmir in Jalandhar is also noticeable.

[Guest]

<!--QuoteBegin-Nalwa+Dec 31 2003, 07:14 AM-->QUOTE(Nalwa @ Dec 31 2003, 07:14 AM)<!--QuoteEBegin--> Yaar Mudy, this is maybe one perspective. It is probably intended to prove that Sikhs and Hindu's did not start thr killings.
But by god, we gave as good as we got in the end.
That is why Indian Punjab is CLEAN of Islime. <!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Do you have figures about how many Punjabi Muslims live in our Punjab? Why did they stay back? I am sure it was easy for them to move to Pakistan. The reason could be that they did not believe in the concept of Pakistan, or they were too rich and didn't want to move. Which one is it?

[G.Subramaniam]

Punjabi Muslims
----------------
The original pakistan demand of Jinnah was to include
West Bengal, Assam, East Punjab, Haryana, Himachal

The muslims of West Bengal and East Punjab thought that they would join
Pakistan, which is why Direct Action Day happened in hindu majority Kolkata
Muslims in rest of India were told that they would get local pakistans and they
merrily rioted all over residual India

Only due to persistent demand from Tara Singh, Savarkar and Syama Prasad Mukerji, were most of the non-muslim districts rescued from United Punjab and United Bengal

The original pakistan demand left 48 million non-muslims under pakistan
The final boundaries rescued 32 million and left only 16 million under muslim rule
Read Ambedkar's book "Pakistan or the Partition of India" for the census of 1941,
available at ambedkar.org

In west punjab it was 16 million muslims vs 4 million non-muslims
In east punjab, it was 4 mil muslims vs 12 mil non-muslims

When the sikhs were through, less than 1 lakh remained
mostly in the nawabdom of Malerkotla
The reason Malerkotla muslims were spared was that in 1700, the nawab had
protested against the bricking alive of the infant sons of guru Gobind Singh
And Guru Gobind Singh granted permanent protection to the muslims of Malerkotla

[G.Subramaniam]

The inevitability of another partition or worse
-----------------------

65% of Indian muslims live in UP, Bihar, WB, Assam and JK

Despite the psec press, what is happening is that in many states, muslims thanks
to pampering and reproduction have reverted to pre-partition aggressiveness
SIMI started in 1977

Each day about 20 hindus are murdered by muslims in low level ethnic cleansing

The muslim game plan is to create an islamic corridor through north India
by low level ethnic cleansing

The key then must be to minimize this
It is not a question of IF, but rather WHEN the next partition attempt will happen
Every muslim communal riot must be seen as a mini-partition attempt

Baljit Rai says 2025, Konrad Elst writes 2050
2050 is the outer limit, I think Baljit Rai is more closer to the truth

The steps to minimise this is to de-islamise north WB, by evacuating 15 million BD hindus and raise hindu fertility and raise hindu awareness by means of visits to the nearest ghetto
Forewarned is Fore-armed

It is also clear that most ISI activity happens in secular ruled states

[Guest]

Sorry no link
"WHAT WENT WRONG WITH PAKISTAN ??"

By: RASOOL BUX PALIJO

One of the intriguing "ifs" of Pakistan history is "What would have happened I if the founder of Pakistan had not been terminally ill at the day of Pakistan and had not died within a year; and a month of its establishment?" Intellectual Strait-jacket:- To those whom adequate study of the abundant fresh material on the evolution of socio-political thought and action in India in this century, which has become available in recent years, (for instance see "Legend and Reality" by H.M. Seervi" The high politics of India's partition" by Asim Roy in "India's Partition" edited by Mushirul Hassan, " A History of Freedom Struggle" by E.M.S. Namboodripad, "The sole Spokesman, Jinnah...." by Anita Indersingh, Indian's struggled for Independence" by Bipan Chandra etc.) has liberated from the mental and intellectual straight-jacket of the one-sided and simplistic congress-league- CPP propaganda, whatever the short-comings and sins of omission and commissions of Mohd. Ali Jinnah after and before Partition, including those in such matters relating to the Provinces of Pakistan as endorsement of Liaquat Ali Khan coterie's usurpation of Sindh's socio-political, cultural-economic heart, the City of Karachi and the fatal refusal to accept in time Bengali as one of the State languages of Pakistan etc, one thing is absolutely clear about him. He was neither the reactionary religious fanatic of the congress propaganda version nor the modern version of Mohmood Ghaznavi and Ghazi Salahuddin that Muslim League propaganda painted him to be. The other day, on the 8th June 1995, to be exact, I was sitting with Professor Muzaffar Ahmed, President of Bangladesh NAP_ in his No. 50 Kakrail, Dacca house in Bangladesh. As usual on much occasions, he was questioning me in detail regarding my views about various political questions connected with the sub-continent. This time the subject was the genesis of the current situation of India-Pakistan and Bangladesh.

A man enters the house while we were conversing and spoke to the Professor in English. I noted that his English accent was unlike that common and told him so, later on, when he spoke tome. It transpired that he was a much traveled and a very well-read man. Explaining his English accent, he told me that one of the reasons was that he was fond of Shakespeare and read him aloud. That reminded me. I said "Do you know that a famous Indian Leader was also very fond of the great poet and used often to declaim his poetry.
"Yes! I know, "he said "Mr. Jinnah was a unique man." Coming from a Bengali intellectual who was apparently nationalist and secular this statement extremely surprised me and; He said " I too, at first, thought him to be only an opportunist, a rank reactionary and a British stooge. But he (Mr. Jinnah) did he had to do, under the circumstances. He was never a communalist; never advocated theocracy.

<b>No transfer and Burdens of Population envisaged</b>. No transfer of population was ever suggested or contemplated at any stage of the struggle for Pakistan. In fact the Pakistan Resolution of 1940 itself, which is the founding document of the struggle for Pakistan, dose not envisage imposing population burdens upon the constituent Provinces. It does not oblige any Province to accept; a single person from any other place including India.
Much less does it envisage people having their historical homelands, turned into petty minorities in these very homelands by wholesale population transfers. Nothing could be clearer on this point than Quaid-e-Azam's famous historic inaugural speech to the first Constituent Assembly of Pakistan's three days before the coming into existence of Pakistan,in which he directed the people of Pakistan to forget, nay, change the bitter past, bury the communal hatchet and treat all Pakistanis as equal citizens of Pakistan, so that the entire story of Hindu-Muslim strife and communal hatred may become a thing of the past.

The self-appointed inheritors and owner of Pakistan. It is tempting to speculate how, if Mr. Jinnah had lived longer, peremptorily and summarily his no-nonsense nature would have dealt with the pompous pronouncements and arrogant edicts of British Deputy Commissioner's-darbar-level feudal politicians, deputy and joint Secretary-level bureaucrats, Brigadier level uniformed "statesmen" and the self-proclaimed bearded viceroys of God in fancy beards, who overnight became the owners and masters of Pakistan by "inheritance" as soon as the founder of Pakistan closed his eyes. An out of order ambulance, a swarm of flies - how Liaquat Ali Khan Coterie abandoned the dying Quaid.

Establishment on a war-Path against people of Pakistan. Pakistan establishment has been on a war-path against the people of Pakistan from day one of the establishment of Pakistan. The unstated but implied political catechism prescribed by them went on something like this."Are you a Muslim?" "Yes." "do you believe in Quran as the only word of God and the Supreme Law for Muslims? "Yes.....and I want a democratic order
ensuring my social, political and economic rights and liberties including the right of forming political parties, having a free Press, Fair and free elections; in the country, human rights......" Show us where in the Holy Quran are all these things mentioned as required by God for a true believer!" "But you see in the modern democratic world....." " in the Holy Quran is the word democracy ever mentioned even in passing? Is the
Holy Quran, as it is, not sufficient for you that you are asking for something about which there's not even a single mention in our sacred book". Rule By Naked Sword, the whip, the dungeon and the fatwa. In utter disregard, nay contemptuous rejection of the concept of the Quaid-e-Azam about Pakistan as a Human, liberal and democratic modern Muslim State, they dreamed of transforming it into a medieval slave-holders state run by the naked sword, the whip, the dungeons the fatwa of the unscrupulous obscurantist priest close who made the manufacture and sale of pseudo - religions edicts (fatwas) as their sole privilege and business - monopoly. Instead of relying upon the democratic the and creativity of the; people of Pakistan and on develop their untapped material resources, they relied upon rule by the iron rod ,by the discredited policy of divided and rule and upon the begging bowl , which last drew foreign comments this: "It is obvious from this approach Pakistan's request of Oct - Nov. 1947) that Pakistan was thinking in terms of the U.S. as a Primary source of military strength and that this would involve virtual U.S. military responsibility for the new dominion. Our reply to this Pakistan request was negative....." (Action taken by U.S. on Pakistan's request of Oct-Nov. 1947 - "American-Pakistan Relations - Documents edited by K. Arif p. 9 ")

<b>Basis of Partition -Majority Provinces</b>. It may be noted here that the official basis of Partition of India and establishment of Pakistan was not that India was divided among Muslims or Hindus population of India, so that all Indian Muslims were meant to live in Pakistan and all Hindus were to live India. It was divided on the basis of majority provinces. Four Muslim majority provinces - Punjab, Bengal, Sindh and Frontier were allowed to form a separate State, which they named Pakistan and seven Hindu majority provinces remained with India. The Hindu population residing in those Muslim majority provinces was to remain there. Similarly the Muslims in the Hindu majority provinces were to continue residing there. The existence of Hindu and Muslim majority Provinces, the old States, the ancient homelands of the peoples of India were the basic unit of constitutional and political give and take. These provinces occupied the center of the stage in the scheme of the Act of 1935, which started the electoral battles of the thirties and forties in India culminating; in Partition with the elections of 1946 and the referendum of 1947. Victories in the provincial election in1937 gave Congress the first taste of power and accelerated the face of All-India political struggles. "All power to the majority provinces" was or less the crux of the matter in both the Cripps's offer of 1942 and the Cabinet Mission Plan of 1946. Pakistan Resolution referred to these Muslim majority provinces as would-be sovereign States. Quaid-e-Azam called the future Pakistan as a state and the four Muslim majority provinces as homelands of the people living there since centuries.

"They must have their homelands" Quid. He said in his presidential address at Lahore in March 1940, during the historic Muslim league session in which the famous Pakistan Resolution was passed,"...... according to British map of India, 4 out of 11 provinces, where the Muslims dominate more or less are functioning.....Musilamans are nation according to any definition of nation and they must have their homelands, their territory and their State......." (The concept of "homeland" regarding above provinces used by Mr. Jinnah has now become anathema to pro-terrorist ideologue like Mr. M.B. Naqvi). Maulana Azad also referred to these Muslim majority provinces as the guarantee of the security and prosperity of Muslims of India in the future Undivided India. In his presidential address at the Ramgarh session of the Indian National Congress in Dec. 1940, said "......... in four provinces out of eleven in India there is a Muslim majority, the other religious groups being minorities. If British Baluchistan is added, there are five Provinces with Muslim majorities.....the position of the Muslims is not that of a minority only. If they are in a minority in seven provinces, they are in majority in five."

<b>Sindh</b> - an ancient sovereign state for centuries. The five Muslim majority provinces of former united India, which formed Pakistan, are the homelands of the Sindhi, Punjabi, Pashtoon, Bengali and Baloch people since centuries and even millennia. For instance Sindh was regarded as a country at par with India by the Arab Geographers in medieval times. It had attained; statehood long before such famous states as Russia, England, Germany and France and was represented in the Battle of Maha Bharata by its Raja Jaidrath. It has existed as a state independent of any imperial power for centuries. It was independent when the British conquered it in February 1842 and later designed it as a Province. In all fairness, it became entitled, under international law, to resume its previous independent states as a sovereign state in August 1947, when the British Raj came to an end. Along with three other Muslim majority provinces out of the total of level provinces of India, Sindh chose to become a part of Pakistan.

Sindh Targeted for conquest and Subjugation. As soon as Pakistan was formed however, one of the Muslim majority Provinces, to form Pakistan viz. Sindh Muslim majority province of Sindh was made a target for conquest and subjugation by U.P=C.P elite led by khan Liaquat through planned demographic aggression represented by a flood of Indian, mostly illegal, immigrants directed at Sindh to transform the SINDHI majority into a tiny, obedient minority, to serve the super-civilized Indian immigrant masters and conquerors. First to be robbed from the Sindhi peoples was its most valuable piece of real estate viz. the City of Karachi, the capital of the province. Draconian, confiscatory black laws, called the Evacuee Laws,were used as a weapon for usurping Sindhi property worth billions of Rupees and for making them virtual aliens in their own towns and cities.

The illiterate Peasant and the bania. In Sindh, as else-where, illiterate peasants and petty agriculturists used to purchase their daily necessities from the shops of Hindu village merchants. Whenever, the debt accumulated beyond a certain point, the merchant would tell the peasant or petty abadgar to go to the Tapedar with him and sign a statement acknowledging that such and such piece of land belonging to him was mortgaged without possession with the bania for such and such a sun. Under the relevant law of the land viz. Transfer of property Act and the Registration Act, signing of such statements was just meaningless, as the possession of the pieces of land in question was never handed over and no prescribed sale-deed according to law was executed before the concerned Registrar. The transaction was appropriately called "Khokho khato" i.e. empty transfer. Lacs of acres of land of peasantry was involved in such empty and meaningless transactions before the Revenue Tapedar without any sanctity in the eyes of the law of the land,

A family arrangement! The central government, which controlled the operation of Rehabilitation and Evacuee Laws, had so arranged the matters that the establishment which implemented this law, was totally dominated by Indian immigrants from top to bottom. One immigrant merely claimed by word of mouth that he had so many gardens, buildings, wheat fields in such and such province. Another immigrant said that the claim was correct. Third immigrant who was the Rehabilitation officer "investigated" and "verified" the claim. If someone wished to challenge the validity of such a claim, he had to go for a favorable decision from a higher official, who in most cases, was himself an Indian immigrant. So, as they say in Sindhi "The cook was the grand mother and those who ate the food were the grand children." It became an internal community affair. Property worth billions of Rupees which in law never belonged to Hindus and was lawfully owned and possessed by Sindhi Muslims, was overnight declared by such " family arrangement" as Hindu property and hence, further, a booty to be divided among the community and then sold at fancy prices, not to one, but to more than one, two, and sometimes even three, four different purchasers, who then went on fighting in law courts for the same property for generations. The seller just vanished from the scene after collecting the amounts from all the duped purchasers.

<b>The First Generation of Terrorists.</b> I cannot forget some of my encounters as an advocate with the immigrant officials who were supposed to be performing "Judicial" functions. One noted C.S.P. bureaucrats who terrorized Tharparker District for a number of years, as Deputy commissioner and who became a big Rehabilitation authority at Hyderabad, was sitting in the supper store of the present sessions Court, Hyderabad, I went to him and stood before him for quite some minutes. He did not deign to look at me. Ultimately, I had to open my lips and say "Sir! A Wish to present my appeal. This is the last day. There is no one in the office of receive it." "What is your name? A told him "On whose behalf are you filing the appeal?" "On behalf of a poor peasant." "Appeal dismissed." He declared. "I was flabbergasted. I had no such experience before any other authority in my whole life of the profession. I took courage in my both hands and submitted humbly, "But sir, you haven't yet seen the memo of appeal and then I have to argue it." he extended his hand stiffly, half-snatched the application from my hand, noted some-thing upon it and threw it into the waste paper basket, Lying under the table and said "Next case!". Later in the day, I read the noting in the office "Heard Advocate. No merit. Rejected." On another occasion nice-looking slim, officer with glasses heard me patiently for three four minutes in his office in saddar barracks at Karachi. I argues about the requirements of law for making a Muslim property a Hindu property and hence an evacuee property under the
Transfer of Property Act, Registration Act and the relevant Evacuee Laws. While I was in the midst of my submissions, he looked at me intently and pointing to the wall behind me, said in a very measured, deliberate voice "Do you see that wall?" I said "Yes Sir!" "Go and strike your head against it! appeal dismissed!" Now that I recall these experiences I realize that these bureaucrats were the first generation of terrorists. They wielded the Law and the pen as weapons for their terroristic rampages.

<b>A Regular Loot and plunder</b> - A Racket of the Century. For the type of officer law, propriety, fair, play meant less than nothing. They considered it below their dignity to evince anything but contempt for the law, justice and fair-play. They enjoyed parading their lawlessness and arbitrariness, free from all ethical, moral and level restraints. They had just conquered Sindh and Sindhi people and wanted every one to know it. It was a regular loot and plunder which went on for many decades, a racket of the century. This whole crowd (the bogus ex-owners of fictitious gardens and palaces, left behind in India, battalions of regular "Witnesses" and "verifiers", the swarms of touts and sifarishis, the; gangs of looters and robbers posing as upholders of law, fair-play and good conscience tall) robbed thousands of poor Sindhi people of their properties, lands businesses, even the grave-yards of their fore-fathers and threw them out of urban centers of Sindh. In due course of time, some of our dear Indian immigrant guests from across the border, many of them illegal immigrants, have begun to claim not just one or a few properties but whole towns and cities of Sindh as their sovereign domain with the powers of life and death by horrible tortures and racial cleansing.

<b>Criminalized politics</b> - A Bunch of Monkeys with swords In Hands. Politics has been criminalized from day one in Pakistan. As if a bunch of monkeys have somehow got hold of swords and are striking at everything within their sight. Ethical, moral, social and political standards, legal and constitutional limitations, considerations of patriotism, of safety and welfare of the state and society, norms of self-respect and decency
no thing has been spared.

A state at war with it's people. The state of Pakistan has been at war with and within itself these last 48 years of its existence its protective institutions charge cores of Rupees annually only to destabilize their own society and governments! The organs and agencies of state spend Crores of their huge share of the national budget to enlist; train and operate cut-throats, gangsters, hooligans mass-murderers and torturers to sow confusion, despondency and terror in the hearts of the loyal and peaceful subjects of the state, whom it is their sacred and bounden duty to protect and cherish! The shepherds have taken on the roles of the wolf-breeders. This is over and above the cruel sufferings and calamities, the civil and military dictatorships have been themselves imposing upon the people during the last half a century.

<b>A Matter of faith and geo-politics.</b> I firmly believe as a matter of faith based upon sound reason and a sense of geopolitics and history that the countries of Al-Sindh (now Pakistan) and Al-Hind (Now Bharat)are sisters and their peoples are brothers, despite the rich variety of our faiths and sub-cultures. We complement each other just as other neighboring countries like France and England do. I also believe that short –sightedness and foul play is not the monopoly of any one of over two neighboring countries. We have no dearth of problems requiring urgent solutions. We have not a penny in excess of our immediate requirements to spend on perfecting the war machines for killing and maiming our brothers and sisters and our children and parents. We do not have any real need to spend our meager resources for enlisting and training terrorists to torture innocent people living across our borders. Common sense, restraint, mutual accommodation and understanding, magnanimity of heart and mind and a realistic appraisal of our mutual possibilities and limitations are the only course of action realistically available to us. Amity and peace, not strife and war point the way out of the percent impasse.

The Country in real danger from within and without. I also believe that thanks to the criminal misdeeds of our establishment during the last 50 years. Pakistan in real danger from within and without as it has never been before. I do not believe that it is in the real, long-term interests of the majority of our working masses and the democracy- loving people that the present crisis should be allowed to take its own course and become worse. It is high time that our thinking and conceptions pro-people forces awaken the people from their present state of apathy and despondency and persuade them to take up their destiny in their own hands and compel the powers that be, to resist from continuing with the irresponsible, course of action, they have hither to been following. As far as the vociferous pro-terrorist intelligentsia of Sindh is concerned, would like humbly to submit before them:

If you really believe. If you really believe that through the torrent of media propaganda you can persuade the world at large that terrorism, torture by drilling machines, skinning fellow human beings alive etc; is a civilized democratic and legitimate mode of protest against perceived lack of perceived rights, deserving sympathy and support of civilized men and women, and if you think that by this kind of attitude of establishment and terrorists Sindh will become a colony of establishment and mostly illegal Indian immigrants, to be ruled through drilling machines, torture cells etc. You are welcome to your fantasies and day-dreams. But if you really believe such a thing as that terrorism is the only course now left open to our Urdu-speaking brothers and sisters in Pakistan, I would humbly like to disagree.

MOST OF US NEED PEACE TO WORK, TO STUDY, TO LOVE..... After all we are all human beings. We are not all criminals, who can do nothing other than brutally kill and main and mutilate fellow-human beings. Most of us are poor people who have to earn a meal or two for our children. Most of us need peace to work, to study, to live, to marry, to sing, to dance,to live like human beings with our share of pains and pleasures. Pursuing wild dreams of conquest, supremacy, hegemony, brutal power, enslavement of fellow human-beings, are to the only courses left to enterprising and spirited men and women. Fellow-ship, mutual help and cooperation in peace and amity offer more job-satisfaction and rewards than running drilling machines and torture cells. Sindh will never bow down before any would-be Nadir Shah, Hitler or Mussolini, but Sindh's arms are open for all who approach it in peace and filial love. To all our brothers and sisters speaking various languages including Sindhi, Punjabi,Urdu etc. I would like humbly and sincerely to say: "Our brothers did not give birth to us to live in constant necessity of either killing some other human beings or being in constant danger of being killed. Let us refuse to remain prisoners behind the dark dungeons of hatred and violence. Let us look at the sun, the moon, the flowers, the flowing water, the eyes of the beloved and the less of children. Let us recognize one another as what we really are fellow human-beings, compatriots, brothers and sisters. Why can we not differ stoutly without falling prey to brutal violence? why can we not disagree and argue without endangering our lives and the lives of our loved ones?

GRIEVANCES AGAINST THE GOVERNMENT, THE STATE AND THE SYSTEM. As far grievances, thousands of us have passed the best years our lives in jails, during almost; continuously in prison during both the Bhutto and Zia regimes. I have given no less than ten best years of my life to the worst prisons of Pakistan. I can never forget that injustice. Almost every honest and working man and woman has serious grievances from the governments and establishment and socio-political system of our country. It is only through exchanging our views and joining our hands in peace and friendship and struggling together that we can lessen the pans and sufferings of our lives. I can assure you that the majority of the laboring masses of the people of Sindh are ready to embrace and clasp the hand of any and every one of his compatriots who is ready and willing to march forward with them on the path of a peaceful and democratic struggle for a better and fully satisfying life for all of us not excluding any one and including those who abandon the path of violence and strife and take the high road unity of all oppressed and deprived people, of happiness for all people.

Why not give peace a chance for a change. We are witnessing the wages of hypocrisy, hatred, violence, crime and terror. For once, for a change why not give sincerity, amity, peace, cooperation and joint peaceful democratic for the rights of all our brothers and sisters a chance

[G.Subramaniam]

Muslim League's Unfinished Agenda
By: Prafull Goradia

Posted under Book folder - http://india-forum.com/forums/index.php?sh...findpost&p=4632
[Admin : modified]

[Guest]

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->When the sikhs were through, less than 1 lakh remained
mostly in the nawabdom of Malerkotla
The reason Malerkotla muslims were spared was that in 1700, the nawab had
protested against the bricking alive of the infant sons of guru Gobind Singh
And Guru Gobind Singh granted permanent protection to the muslims of Malerkotla <!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

True. When Guru Gobind Singh's mother (Mata Gujari ji) and his two young Sons (Fateh Singh and Zorawar singh) took shelter in the house of their cook (Gangu), he got them arrested to the Mughal Governor of Sarhind. Where due to intrigues of Sachanand and Wazir Khan it was decided to pursuade the 7 year old and 5 year old sons of Guru Gobind singh to convert to Islam. Both sons knew the evil designs and did not converted and result was the qazi giving them the "punishment of hell" from Quran., where young one's are bricked alive. On hearing the news other Mughal governor of Malerkotla was disturbed and he shouted at Nawab Wazir Khan for dropping so low to punish children and walked out. For this act only in 1947 the then Nawab of Malerkotla asked the local Sikh Sangat for protection and was obliged. Malerkotla is a tehsil in Sangrur district with population of about 100,000.

but in last 20+ years in Punjab millions of Bihari, UP, etc muslims have migrated. In each city in Punjab there are mosques.

Then there are also about 20,000 Ahmadiya Muslims in Qadian town (Gurdaspur district). Almost all of them had migrated to Pakistan but in Pakistan they were persecuted and are now neither here nor there and are refugees everywhere.

check Nankana Sahib riots against Ahmadias

http://www.thepersecution.org/archive/6_b.html

[G.Subramaniam]

Bajwa
-----

There is a planned migration of muslims into Jinnah's corridor demand area
From Pakistan to Assam

1. Internal muslim migration
2. BD muslims
3. Pakistani muslims
Rajasthan has 1 million illegal pakistani muslims

By 2050, the area east of Delhi will see a partition
Only Punjab and Haryana and Himachal will be safe in north India
thanks to the ruthless sikh-punjabi hindu counter-attack of 1947

In Punjab, near defense installations, mosques are coming up

In the demography thread, I am doing a district level analysis of muslim demographics

[Guest]

That's unfortunate. With Mulayam and Laloo as Chief Minister of UP and Bihar this plan seems to be in place much before 2050.

[G.Subramaniam]

In letters to editor in the Dec 2000 issue of the secular leftist EPW, the secular
moderate muslim journalist Samar Abbas has openly made this demand
He also says openly there is in-migration of muslims and harassment of hindus in this region

Casteists and communists are anti-Indian religionists
and are the Jaichands of today

The other type of idiots are the Gandhists
Vinobha bhave got 2 lakh muslim meos back from pakistan and resettled in Haryana

[G.Subramaniam]

The coming problems with the residual Indian muslim population
----------------------

As Samuel Huntington writes, internal muslim minorities are unassimilable

What India is facing the west and Israel is also facing and it will be interesting to see how it plays out

Next we have to keep in mind that thanks to demographics the problem is going to get worse with time, and Jihad is mandated when feasible

Every fork in the decision tree leads to violence and it is better to discuss it in the open

Option 1 - Do nothing
and muslims take over by reproduction and rioting and hindus get exterminated as in bangladesh

Option 2 - The other extreme
Muslims are still 13%, the same as in 1947, before the sikh-hindu reprisals
While physically this is possible, mentally hindu society is not prepared for this solution and this entails a lot of violence and counter violence


Option 3 - True secularism
Roll back to 1949
UCC, removal of article 370 etc. Sangh Parivar wants this
This involves a lot of muslim rioting since their privileges are removed

Option 4- Freeze muslim appeasement at current levels and stop further islamisation.
Hindu society seems to prefer this at this time
BJP seems to be going this route by limiting Haj to deserving candidates

The problem with this is , even if hindus freeze on current levels of muslim appeasement, muslims are not satisfied and will never be satisfied

Muslim leadership has a whole host of demands printed in Urdu press but not in
english media
Urdu press even considers the congress and CPM and the english media press as anti-muslim or not secular enough
In the Urdu press veiled threats like if these "legitimate' demands are not met
then their youth will take to violence

Read milligazette etc to get an idea into their thinking

What they want
1. End to articles about ISI and madrasas
2. Over-representation of muslims in army / police / legislature
( as in pre-partition days )
3. No action against BD illegals
4. Independence for kashmir
5. Financial aid to pakistan and BD
6. Arms licenses to all muslims
7. Ban on hindutva groups but no ban on islamist groups
8. 20% reservation for muslims and the other 80% for muslim approved hindus
9. Separate electorate
10. Separate muslim districts within each state

And a whole host of Jinnah type demands
Now even the congress cant meet these demands and at this point when their numbers reach critical mass, they will take to 'direct action'

----

Any action must be based on what at this time hindu society is willing to do
Raising hindu birth rate will stabilise the situation at option 4

[Guest]

Why the heck does India give subsidies for Haj? Why can't I get any money for Kashi Yatra?? <!--emo&:furious--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/furious.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='furious.gif' /><!--endemo-->

We have to bite the bullet and cut out these appeasements. Even Pakistan does not give subsidies. I was hoping the BJP would do this. I guess we will have to wait for the next generation of leaders, Atalji and gang seem to be to benign.

We need a Hindu reawakening.

[G.Subramaniam]

The fundamental problem with islam is that it cant co-exist in equality with other religions
Removal of appeasements make them live in equality with other religions and there will be riots

Is hindu society willing to face a riotous islamic mob
There are not enough cops

The day hindu society is willing to face an islamic mob, that day
UCC, Article 370, Ram temple etc can be implemented

[Guest]

GS: It's just not about number of cops. Look at the way Islam exists in other nations such as US? There's no Haj subsidies. There's no multiple marriages without a proper divorce recognized by state. There's no crap about shouting on top of lungs at 5:00 am with loudspeakers.

Only in India - why? Because in 50+ years we have yet to produce leaders who has the guts to say every citizen of the nation will be treated equally - irrespective of his religious or ethnic background.

[G.Subramaniam]

Islam in US is just 1%

In UK where islam is 3% and France where islam is 10%, muslims flout secular laws even more blatantly than India



In US, muslims have not yet reached critical mass

Mullahs are very active in US jails and when these criminals get released
expect havoc in the US

[Guest]

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Islam in US is just 1%<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You have a point GS. But we just can't expect to have equal rights for all it's citizen only when a particular community has 1% of it's population.
At best, India has about 170 Million Muslims out of about 1 Billion citizen. Hindus beating the '<i>hum paanch humaare pachees</i>' breeding motto won't help either. Most people I've come across have smaller families with one or two kids due to financial or social or personal reasons. People just won't breed like rabbits for the sole purpose of changing the demographic nature of a particular town/state/nation.

The answer to all this has to be above and beyond the number game.

Just some ramblings ....

[G.Subramaniam]

If the alternative of being killed like the BD hindus who became a minority by failing to have enough kids is spelt out clearly to the hindu masses, I am sure
they will match islamic fertility

Hindus need to learn that their 1 kid will be murdered by 5 muslim kids

When that message sinks in, things wil change

[G.Subramaniam]

Viren
-----

The failure to complete population transfer was a civilizational blunder bigger than
Prithvi Raj

It was done by Gandhi who was a pretend saint
and Nehru who wanted to use muslims to harass hindus

In effect there are only 3 choices for hindus

1. Match islamic fertility
2. Fight riots on every street when muslim % inches up to critical mass
3. Convert to islam

The non-violent and pre-emptive solution is to match muslim fertility

There needs to be VHP campaign on fertility / female foeticide
The hindu needs to realise that neither wealth nor education will save him when
muslims reach critical mass
Examples being east bengal, lebanon, Juhupura, etc

Taking to consumer culture and having 1-2 kids means that your kids face genocide thanks to your selfishness