Vishal, lungi vs lungoti confusion ---> I understand now. <img src='http://www.india-forum.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':lol:' /> I agree with spinster that people in AP tend to wear lungis. As a matter of fact, lungis are worn on a daily basis whereas dhotis are usually worn on special occasions such as pujas.
Mudy, your second link doesn't work. I was so looking forwards to learning how to wear a dhoti properly... Graduate ad:
[quote name='O Vijay' date='Nov 4 2003, 08:29 AM'] As a matter of fact, lungis are worn on a daily basis whereas dhotis are usually worn on special occasions such as pujas. [/quote]
OVijay,
Sorry but it's not correct. I knew a lot of people, in India, who never wore anything else besides 'dhoti' throughout their life. During pujas, the dhotis just got expensive.
I think, I'm just throwing this as a bait, that people in N. India mostly wore 'dhotis' while people in S. India liked lungis!
Andhras tend to think that anyone wearing a dhoti on a regular, non-occasion basis is a sissy (another flame bait ... <img src='http://www.india-forum.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' /> ).
Anyways, I was only talking about AP. <img src='http://www.india-forum.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' />
The thread topic is "Indian dress styles" - so please excuse me. I believe that burkhas worn by Indian women have styles and fashions of their own, that vary and evolve with time.
I have heard people say that they have become more common, but I would add that they have also become more fashionable.
I have two general observations to make:
a) The relationship of a burkha to a more "revealing" dress is the same as the relationship between a boxing match and an all out hand to hand fight to the death. In teh former (boxing) ther are set rules - standard gloves are worn, no kicking/elbowing, no hitting below the belt or behind the ears or the back. In an all out fight, weapons are allowed, and hitting/cutting/shooting anything is allowed.
<img src='http://www.india-forum.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/cool.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='B)' /> Female and male hormonal reactions cannot be suppressed by restrictions set by a mullah.
As in a boxing match, the burkha "levels the playing field". Pretty nose, great complexion, great hairstyle, long hair, a beatifully made up face - that hint of lipstick etc are ruled out. If a girl is prettier than you no problemo - she gotta wear a portatent, just like you, so looks don't count. The "weapons" have to be within what is allowed - and boy, how they are used.
It is easier to consider the part of the burkha that is worn below the neck, because that is more constant. The "fit" and the "fall" od the material are used to show up parts of the body that need to be shown up - front or back, using the same characterirtsics that contribute to the "wind factor" . What is worn underneath the burkha can be used to augment or suppress features.
Above the neck - it's almost a free for all. If face visibility is allowed - it does things to the competition. But even when it is not allowed there are possibilities. In the latest fashions, in which a separate veil is worn, much can be done with the eyes. You need not actually have a nose or lips, but if your eyes are OK you are making the competition burn with jealousy. Those lashes, those eyes. etc. A bit of mascara and it's blatant blasphemy.
Even with the face covered games are played with the head dress to mimic hair, and sometimes, really long, thick hair is allowed to peep out from underneath, casually. And then there is the body language and the careful attention to shapes and forms that are visible. And the style of walking.
Finally - the feet and hands make for useful tools. Nail polish and high heels when allowed are used for effect, but when they are not allowed, something else is invariably used to advertse and draw attention to what is inside.
There is a whole world out there - right under the mullah's nose.
<img src='http://www.india-forum.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/cool.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='B)' /> Female and male hormonal reactions cannot be suppressed by restrictions set by a mullah.
.....................
Graduate [/quote]
But these same kinda harmonic reactions help a mullah produce a jehadi...... :roll
:cool :clapping
so for controlling jehadi productions,BUSH should ban such harmonic reactions in all MADARASAS with help of a UNSC resolutions(one member will will vote against it..... <img src='http://www.india-forum.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/cool.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='B)' /> )................... :roll
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin--> There is a whole world out there - right under the mullah's nose.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Actually some of my batch mates in high school and went into Medical schools and worked in Iran have confirmed that there is indeed a whole world wrapped up , They have reported sighting of hotpants ( in 1982/83) in Iran(ian Burqas) right under the watchfull eyes of Ayotollahs.
The more things are confined and tied down, the more they tend to reveal, which is the driving principle of the 'PUSH UP" concept of VS. <!--emo&--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<img src='http://www.hindustantimes.com/wfsf/high/2004/03.30/images/high650343.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
Models showcase bridal dresses by designers Manju Agarwal and Bhagirath during a fashion show in New Delhi on Tuesday, March 30, 2004.
03-31-2004, 06:12 AM (This post was last modified: 12-15-2004, 10:11 PM by Hauma Hamiddha.)
<!--QuoteBegin-Mudy+Mar 30 2004, 05:43 PM-->QUOTE(Mudy @ Mar 30 2004, 05:43 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->
Models showcase bridal dresses by designers Manju Agarwal and Bhagirath during a fashion show in New Delhi on Tuesday, March 30, 2004. <!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think it's about time I give the Aunties back home, the GREEN signal! <!--emo&--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--emo&--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tongue.gif' /><!--endemo-->
In Karnataka and Andhra Dhoti is worn as a formal dress but Panchei (white) is more informal. Off course designer colored lungi are informal / night dress.
Again it is relative.
In Kerala and TN it is just Panchei.
I love Panchei. I were it when I attend Desi get togethers in Los Angles, for walks after supper and many times to Airport when I have to see off people at night.
I feel very comfortable in it. It takes TIME to get used to it.
After that no need for an AC <!--emo&--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Dhothi, Vesthi, Panche are the ideal for Indian climate. I cannot gather how people can bear wearing western suits in Indian climate with all that pollution blowing in you eye. It is so frustrating to wear suit it is as if you are being strangled. Luckily I dont have to wear it so much. There was news when one man who was expelled from work becoz he wore frock to work on a hot humid day, his complaint was that women have it easy while they can wear any dress to work. Coming to Indian women, Bindi which is to signify the third eye(spirtual eye) triangulates a viewer's gaze toward the face, otherwise people will be noticing other parts. I happen to notice a lot of changes in dress styles from urban kids in Indian mostly from some TV shows here in ths US. I guess most of them must be from Middle/Upper Middle class kids who can afford these scanty dress. Less the dress material more expensive it gets. I guess India being what it is in its vastness of people and diversity, There must be lot decent people. Instead of aping western dress habits these kids must emulate their work ethic, discipline, responsibilties etc. Bangalore from where I hail, I have noticed these dark Indian kids with short hair & short dress wearing lipstick. Perhaps if a beautiful person did this it would not look bad, but these girls look really ugly. I dont go looking for these girls though, it is so crowded and polluted my eyes start burning, and people force you to drink Coffee even if you dont drink which really gets me sick. I also happen to notice girls on Air India smoking (in airport), and asking for Beer on flight.
12-15-2004, 01:58 PM (This post was last modified: 12-15-2004, 10:10 PM by Hauma Hamiddha.)
First of all, We are very sorry for being very straight forward and open in our message. This message is not to hurt anybody but to share the feelings of millions of indians who respect the indian culture and traditions.
We feel the dressing trends of indian women will become a big concern to the traditional Indian value. A nation like "India" where we give importance to "Culture" and "Family", of late, we see , western culture is corrupting to the core.
We are able to see many young girls walking on the road with low hip pants (showing the panties outside - they claim it as a style), without buttons on the tops. Recently, in one of the major city of india, we are able to see girls walking with low hip pants with holes on the buttock area (this they claim is the latest style). We are really feeling sad. Equalism and independence should not lead to a day when women walk without proper dresses. This can lead to "moral degenerosity " and make "India" another "USA" where there is no importance for "Family " and "Culture". We may use words like "social" and "modern" etc to this culture but in reality we feel it is absurd.
Should we gear up and take some awareness before it becomes an issue ? How team members feel.
Thanks in advance for all your replies
JRB
<b>
Moderator Note:
Change your ID to a proper name or something that sounds like one </b>
<!--QuoteBegin-O Vijay+Oct 25 2003, 01:10 AM-->QUOTE(O Vijay @ Oct 25 2003, 01:10 AM)<!--QuoteEBegin--> Mudy, I believe that happens to everyone when they first wear a sari (or a dhoti in my case).  Give it another chance, you may like the experience.
K. Ram, I agree that the "convenience factor" is a major bugaboo for my wife too.Â
Interestingly, there are pre-packaged saris available in India (unfortunately only for little kids) which do away with the inconvenience. Now, if only some enterprising desi comes up with an adult version, they may have a hit on their hands.
There are also pre-packaged dhotis available for little ones (which I got for my sons). <!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Vijay
Convenience is a function of practice. I am a big fan of panchei. I were it whereever I go in Los Angles, excpet off course work. Panchie (or lungi) is the most comfortable for me. However, many who are not used to it think it is very uncomforatble.
I dont find the suit comfortable.. In fact I hate it.. I feel like I am tied up. I was so relieved when I was done with my medical residency training.. becuase I did not have to wear the faaasi (tie) every day to work..
The way to go.... is to start with these dresses from childhood... then it becomes a habit...
Hey u all .....
Interesting topic on dresses ...
Have you people heard of 9 yard sarees ? Do they wear then in N. India also. In south I have seen women wearing it on spl occasions ?
Any info on this ??
<!--QuoteBegin-sumanr+Apr 11 2005, 05:52 AM-->QUOTE(sumanr @ Apr 11 2005, 05:52 AM)<!--QuoteEBegin--> Have you people heard of 9 yard sarees ? <!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It's called "Nav-wari" in Maharshtra and coastal areas of Konkan and Karnataka, "Nav" means 9. Sari and the Indian women in different parts of India
The phrase "whole nine yards" could have had it's source in this nav-wari sari. http://experts.about.com/q/1474/829265.htm
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Ron wrote: I'd just like to add to the confusion of the origin of 'whole nine yards'. In most of India the everyday sari worn by women is made of material six yards in length. However, for weddings and special occasions, saris of nine yards are used. Hence, for these special occasions, one goes "'the whole nine yards." This could just be another example of the myriad influences the British inherited by ontrolling India for two centuries.
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The dang thing is reaaally expensive.. Its popularity is best characterised by the song <i>whalaaji re maree hatoo patan thee patolaa monghaa laavjo</i> (O dear do get me some expensive patan naa patola).. <!--emo&:o--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/ohmy.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='ohmy.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Meanwhile: Unraveling the sari
Sunanda K. Datta-Ray International Herald Tribune
THURSDAY, APRIL 28, 2005
CALCUTTA A recent New Delhi fashion show where buyers from Saks Fifth Avenue and Harrods rubbed shoulders with India's gliterati suggested that saris - the six yards of cloth that Indian women drape themselves in - may survive mainly as a political statement.
India's Italian-born leader of the Congress party, Sonia Gandhi, is never seen in anything else. With Britain getting ready to vote, Prime Minister Tony Blair's wife Cherie sports one visiting ethnic Indian voters. Indian Singaporeans complain that the wife of one of their ministers wears only dresses.
Politics has always shimmered in a sari's folds. When Pakistan was created in 1947 as a Muslim homeland, Fatima Jinnah, founder Mohamed Ali Jinnah's sister, declared that saris were unpatriotic. The implicit charge of being a Hindu garment was echoed two years ago when an Indian reporter asked Pakistan's first lady her preference in saris. She didn't wear them. Period.
Trendy Indians now associate saris with fusty grandmothers. Canny entrepreneurs who can turn out skirts at less cost for the world market encourage disdain.
Anxious to convince friends - perhaps even themselves - that they are modern, young Indians rationalize choice by dismissing saris as uneconomical and impractical.
What would they say to an aunt of mine who bathed herself and her children in the waterways of East Bengal, scrubbed the family pots and pans, and then swam, all in a voluminous sari?
Another aunt who wears only slacks in India got off the plane in a sari when visiting me in Singapore. "I get better service this way," she explained.
Fashions come and go. In the English era of hobble skirts, saris were wrapped tightly round twice to create the same effect. Heavy pleats at the back copied Victorian bustles. A Maharani of Cooch Behar went further in eclecticism by calling on Queen Victoria in a Western gown over which she elaborately draped a scarf to resemble a sari.
One of my mother's smart friends twisted the end of her sari into a rope that left her blouse looking like the top of a dress. Another's bare shoulders prompted guesses about whether she wore a blouse at all. Hipster saris started below the navel ("You can see her cleavage at the back!" I once heard the disapproving mutter) and left a wide expanse of midriff uncovered.
But even when saris were camouflaged as gowns - with hats, gloves, lace ruffles, capes and abundant brooches - Westernized women of my mother's and grandmother's generation would not be seen dead in skirts. The reason was neither aesthetic nor nationalistic. They dreaded being mistaken for Christian converts or Eurasians, both implying social diminution in those days.
Weave, color, design and manner of tying reveal the wearer's caste, community and even language. Orthodox/uneducated/village women wear it one way; their modern/educated/urban sisters have opted for a style created in the early 20th century by the wife of the first Indian to breach the all-white bastion of the Indian Civil Service.
Sari language, a flicked end or the skirt whisked, can be as expressive as any flamenco dancer's fan. On board an Indian warship I once watched Admiral Mihir Roy's wife, Aparajita, draw the sari over her head as the navy band struck up the national anthem. The simple gesture conveyed grace, dignity and respect.
When Rajmata Gayatri Devi of Jaipur was stopped at the entrance to the Royal enclosure at Ascot because Queen Elizabeth had forbidden uncovered heads, she merely pulled the sari over her head and sailed in.
Statistically, an overwhelming majority of Indian women still cling to a garment whose colloquial Bengali term, kapor, is synonymous with clothes.
But what will happen as the poor become richer and move up the social ladder? Will saris join Japan's kimono and China's cheongsam as exotic attire for high days and holidays? Will American actress Elizabeth Hurley save the sari at a New York fundraising event?
Globalization is economically essential, but heaven save us from copycat cultural uniformity.
(Sunanda K. Datta-Ray, former editor of The Statesman in India, is visiting senior research fellow at the Institute of Southeast Asian Studies, Singapore.)
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