[size="3"]The objective of this thread is to collect news and information related to covert/overt monitoring of activities of people by governments and establishments, along with data-warehousing of captured data followed by data mining and profiling of individuals.
This is the surveillance society that Orwell describes in his dystopian novel "1984," published in 1949.
Orwell's dystopia is not much different from how things seem to be panning out.
My comments, within quoted material, will be [color="#ff00ff"]{ like this }[/color]
[/size]
^ Good. Just desserts. With any luck, it's more than a virus for obtaining mere intelligence...
I don't know why anyone would be on facebook (google+ etc). Even if it had been benign it always had the potential to be a spying and manipulation system.
Also Assange or Wikileaks did try to inform the masses that Facebook, Google, etc were govt utilities to spy on the common man.
Some other basic stuff on Google etc that anyone who's been reading the news over the years would know:
Google was involved in many lawsuits. Some petty some big. IIRC some of these was how long they were allowed to keep user search data (i.e. what you type into the google search form) in various parts of the world. Initially, in the region of Europe, Google said this was I think 2 years (as was supposedly mentioned in fine print on their site somewhere). The argument was that this was for the purpose of analysis of search terms, so that they could provide better service and more targeted advertising. Whatever (but it can certainly be analysed for other features - the question is, do you know what they do with the data?) Some years later, Google said it would keep all your search data indefinitely.
People who know, will tell you that Google - and all famous search engines - know your identity: tying you to your search terms.*
So they advise you to use many different search engines, and not favour one. It's also good for the competition.
* Like the AOL identity leak fiasco many years ago: some disgruntled employee of AOL put names to queries and posted this in public. It became headline news. People talked about privacy issues. Did some moral self-reflection. And then it went away.
Some other court cases that Google and other search engines got into were with the US govt, which insisted it should be able to subpoena Google, Yahoo etc for user search data and that these search engines should just hand over. The US pretended it was to catch paedophiles (if that were true, why are catholic priests moved to parishes all around the US by the Vatican and the rest of the world, has the US govt done anyting about that?) The search engines made a big drama about their moral right to protect "user privacy" etc. And then, from memory, one by one they caved and can now all be asked to give up the data when requested.
Not that any of these search engines felt the morality pinch before in China, where they divulged whatever the govt there wanted to know about dissidents who used gmail and yahoo mail etc for communicating. Having said that, China at least knows how to act out of self-interest: it banned all spying and propaganda outlets.
- Wikipedia - banned (for obvious reasons).
- Google was on trial, misbehaved once too often I believe and had to relocate to still peddle themselves in Chinese territory. China has a popular super search of its own.
- and China (where facebook is banned) has its own social networking site that blows Facebook out of the water.
Of course China spies on its own citizens and invasives too. But like I said: at least they protect their own national interest.
In contrast: the installed Indian christogovt will adopt every single spying tool to help their foreign masters get a better picture, except when the same tools can also be used to undermine said government or at least rock their boat. Then it will start banning stuff. Sure, the sockpuppet govt of India - like China - spies on its own citizens, but unlike China, the Indian govt (nothing Indian about it) promotes invasives and seccessionists. It leads the charge in splitting the nation.
Anyway, the thing is, there's only one person interested in preserving your privacy: you. No one else. If you think it worth protecting, then you'd act sensibly. Like avoid the many facebooks etc. Remember what Zuckerberg - you know, the dude behind Facebook - said about all those people who actually gave Facebook their details:
www.theregister.co.uk/2010/05/14/facebook_trust_dumb/
Quote:Facebook founder called trusting users dumb f*cks
Peace Prize for Mr Zuckerberg?
By Andrew Orlowski
Posted in Music and Media, 14th May 2010 11:33 GMT
[...]
Zuckerberg was chatting with an unnamed friend, apparently in early 2004. Business Insider, which has a series of quite juicy anecdotes about Facebook's early days, takes the credit for this one.
Zuck: Yeah so if you ever need info about anyone at Harvard
Zuck: Just ask.
Zuck: I have over 4,000 emails, pictures, addresses, SNS
[Redacted Friend's Name]: What? How'd you manage that one?
[color="#0000FF"]Zuck: People just submitted it.
Zuck: I don't know why.
Zuck: They "trust me"
Zuck: Dumb fucks[/color]
Like a true gossip queen, he went and badmouthed people behind their backs. O what a shock.
Hey look, dude acquired an Asian-looking girlfriend:
www.geekologie.com/2010/05/facebook_creator_insults_trust.php
Quote:[color="#800080"][Photo caption:][/color]
Seen here with a girl (shocking, I know. I guess $4 billion still goes a long way EVEN IF YOU ARE A MODERN SCREECH), Mark Zuckerberg was apparently amazed by early Facebook users' willingness to provide the website with personal details, even going as far as to call them 'dumb f***s'. According to a 2004 instant message exchange released by Business Insider:
[...]
Hey, I didn't say a thing - I put my Mean Teen days behind me (well, for now) - other than to note that: Saved By The Bell observation++
Anyway, this old piece from 2007 shows that Zuckerberg at least is Not so eager to share his own personal data as his site's many users are:
www.theage.com.au/news/web/bfacebookb-privacy-fiasco-forces-founder-to-apologise/2007/12/06/1196812874843.html
Quote:Facebook fiasco: Zuckerberg says sorry
Asher Moses
December 6, 2007 - 11:15AM
Page 1 of 2 | Single page
[color="#800080"][photo caption:][/color] Facebook CEO and founder Mark Zuckerberg has apologised for a new feature which has been violating members' privacy. At the same time he has been trying to stop a website from publishing his personal details.
Photo: AP
After copping a barrage of criticism from users and the media, Facebook CEO Mark Zuckerberg has broken his silence and apologised for flagrantly breaching user privacy in the pursuit of profits.
The mea culpa comes as the 23-year-old social networking kingpin is being called a hypocrite for trying to force a website to take down unflattering personal documents from his university days, while he was at the same time profiting from the sale of Facebook users' personal information.
[color="#800080"](Well, if there's an opportunity to make money off of gullible sheep, who wouldn't take it. I would. Pity people on IF are too wary to trust me. Sigh.)[/color]
But the court ruled against Facebook and the documents, which include Zuckerberg's Harvard application and excerpts from his old blog, remain online. Among the details exposed were his girlfriend's full name, his parents' home address and his social security number.
Facebook's new ad system was meant to be a financial boon for the social network, offering companies the ability to run highly targeted ad campaigns based on even the most granular personal details contained in user profiles.
[color="#800080"](Oooh more targeted spam! Goody.)[/color]
But one feature, dubbed Beacon, which lets users notify their Facebook friends when they buy something on other sites such as eBay, transformed Facebook's army of adoring fans into a lynch mob.
Criticisms centred on the fact that Beacon alerted users' friends of their activities on external sites without permission, and it was impossible to switch the Beacon system off entirely.
Users were given no choice on whether to opt in and the flames were further stoked by the apparent apathy of Zuckerberg and Facebook's PR team, which have been notoriously secretive and have failed adequately to address users' privacy concerns.
Adding further insult, a number of Facebook's initial partners, including Coca-Cola, pulled out of the advertising system following the litany of bad press.
Zuckerberg broke his silence today in a contrite statement published on the Facebook blog, acknowledging Beacon had been a flagrant breach of privacy.
"We've made a lot of mistakes building this feature, but we've made even more with how we've handled them," [color="#0000FF"]Zuckerberg, whose paper wealth skyrocketed to $US3 billion following a $US240 million investment in Facebook by Microsoft[/color], wrote.
"We simply did a bad job with this release, and I apologize for it."
Last week, long after the situation became a PR disaster, Facebook modified Beacon so users would have to opt in on each partner site before information on their activities was sent to their friends. Today, Zuckerberg said users would be able to disable the system entirely.
What really bugs me is how these 'social networking' sites (Facebook, Linked-In and the zillion clones) all keep sending everyone who's not yet in their system emails to "please
please join", voiced as invites from real life friends/acquaintances/persons: by using their emails/ids/names. Impersonation to steal data is surely a crime...?
[quote name='Husky' date='11 October 2011 - 07:41 PM' timestamp='1318341824' post='113273']
...
What really bugs me is how these 'social networking' sites (Facebook, Linked-In and the zillion clones) all keep sending everyone who's not yet in their system emails to "please
please join", voiced as invites from real life friends/acquaintances/persons: by using their emails/ids/names.
Impersonation to steal data is surely a crime...?
[/quote]
[size="3"]
Wow! Your are RIGHT!! ![[Image: eek.gif]](http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd436/sumishi2009/Smileys/eek.gif)
It IS impersonation to collect data!
Never thought of those pesky invites that way!
[/size]
A very urgent focus needs to be put on UID (aadhar). There has been much written on it and many have casts aspersions on it that it will lead to the establishment of the real big brother in India.
Esteemed members please enlighten on this.
A bit corny but nonetheless sincere video on it-
http://youtu.be/RjPH5Ezig8A
I somehow have a feeling that this definitely has got something to do with 'Mata Rome'.
Quote:So in essece, all biometric data of Indians will soon be stored and managed by global corporates ("mentored" by ex-CIAs??)
Yes, agreed. But what is the purpose of all this, anything specific or their usual global dominance, global policing ambition?
To be more specific, why only India? Aadhar is the only project of its kind in the entire world; why is this happening
only in India?. They have got more risky, antagonistic countries to spy on, and at the moment and in the near future we don't pose any threat, howsoever small, to them. Thats why this is puzzling me. Or is there again a church angle to it? Church anyway has identified India as the biggest ground for 'harvest of souls'. What is it about India that this project is being undertaken here? <img src='http://www.india-forum.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/huh.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='

' />
[quote name='Amatya Rakshas' date='12 October 2011 - 08:08 AM' timestamp='1318386648' post='113284']
Yes, agreed. But what is the purpose of all this, anything specific or their usual global dominance, global policing ambition?
To be more specific, why only India? Aadhar is the only project of its kind in the entire world; why is this happening
only in India?. They have got more risky, antagonistic countries to spy on, and at the moment and in the near future we don't pose any threat, howsoever small, to them. Thats why this is puzzling me. Or is there again a church angle to it? Church anyway has identified India as the biggest ground for 'harvest of souls'. What is it about India that this project is being undertaken here? <img src='http://www.india-forum.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/huh.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='

' />
[/quote]
[size="3"]Its not only India. The New World Order's plan of global domination involves, well, all. The advanced western countries, US and UK in particular, are quite advanced as surveillance societies. Different techniques for different regions, as can be meshed with the region's political, social and cultural clime.
Individual identification is a very important tool for control of large swaths of population by a small minority of elites. Detailed dossiers on common folks is also sought to be achieved as in the article 'Data eye in sky' to help predict social instability two posts above (#11).
"The Money Masters" transcript in the first page of the thread International Banking and the Capitalist Conspiracy on IF describes the global financial control mechanism of the NWO.
[/size][size="3"]The thread [url="http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=5525"]India and the "New World Order"[/url] on BRF discusses the NWO, although till now has not much proceeded beyond the historical underpinnings to get into the contemporary situation. Do check it out till the end, skipping out the in-depth histories.[/size]
[size="3"]
The "Global Warming" movement (see thread [url="http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5319"]S-e-S Redux: Copenhagen?[/url] and [url="http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2770"]India and the Global Warming Debate[/url] on BRF, and Climate Gate on IF), apart from control over nation's economies, is meant to provide one of the financial pillars of the NWO through global taxes to be funneled to institutions aligned with the NWO.
[/size]
Sumishi my friend, I mean no offense to you, but seriously NWO is a part of internet conspiracy theories lacking any serious credibility. No doubt, global banks, financial corps, MNCs and other biggies indeed try to establish their hegemony in one form or the other but NWO...?? I mean seriously. This way it will not be far when Illuminati, Knights Templar and whatnot will start appearing on BR and IF. <img src='http://www.india-forum.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='

' /> And then soon we'll again have PN Oak's Taj Mahal = Hindu Temple, Vatican = Vatika and so on..! <img src='http://www.india-forum.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/angry.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':angry:' /> <img src='http://www.india-forum.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='

' />
[quote name='Amatya Rakshas' date='12 October 2011 - 10:13 AM' timestamp='1318394119' post='113288']
Sumishi my friend, I mean no offense to you, but seriously NWO is a part of internet conspiracy theories lacking any serious credibility. No doubt, global banks, financial corps, MNCs and other biggies indeed try to establish their hegemony in one form or the other but NWO...?? I mean seriously. This way it will not be far when Illuminati, Knights Templar and whatnot will start appearing on BR and IF. <img src='http://www.india-forum.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='

' /> And then soon we'll again have PN Oak's Taj Mahal = Hindu Temple, Vatican = Vatika and so on..! <img src='http://www.india-forum.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/angry.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':angry:' /> <img src='http://www.india-forum.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='

' />
[/quote]
[size="3"]Amatya, my dear, the NWO is out in the open, out of the realm of "conspiracy theories." The EU President, Herman Van Rompuy, had proclaimed 2009 as the ââ¬Åfirst year of global governance.ââ¬Â Whether you designate it as New World Order (George Bush Senior, 1991), or New Global Order (Gordon Brown, 2008), or Global Financial Constitution (Gordon Brown, 2010) or One World Government, or Global Financial System, it doesn't matter, because
[/size][center]
[size="3"]"A skunk, by any other name, would smell as sh*t."[/size] [size="3"][-- Sumishspeare] [/size]<img src='http://www.india-forum.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='

' /> [/center]
[size="3"]
Here is a quote from a former Director of the FBI, J. Edgar Hoover, in 1956:
[/size][indent]
[size="3"]Quote:... the individual is handicapped by coming face-to-face with a conspiracy so monstrous he cannot believe it exists. The American mind simply has not come to a realization of the evil which has been introduced into our midst. It rejects even the assumption that human creatures could espouse a philosophy which must ultimately destroy all that is good and decent.
[/size]
[/indent]
[size="3"]P. Warburg, a member of the CFR, 1950
[/size][indent]
[size="3"]Quote:We shall have world government, whether or not we like it. The question is only whether world government will be achieved by consent or by conquest.
[/size]
[/indent]
[size="3"]In 2002, Rockefeller authored his autobiography Memoirs wherein, on page 405, he wrote:
[/size][indent]
[size="3"]Quote:For more than a century ideological extremists at either end of the political spectrum have seized upon well-publicized incidents ââ¬Â¦ to attack the Rockefeller family for the inordinate influence they claim we wield over American political and economic institutions. Some even believe we are part of a secret cabal working against the best interests of the United States, characterizing my family and me as ââ¬Ëinternationalistsââ¬â¢ and of conspiring with others around the world to build a more integrated global political and economic structure ââ¬â one world, if you will. If thatââ¬â¢s the charge, I stand guilty, and I am proud of it.
[/size]
[/indent]
[size="3"]Henry Kissinger, January 5, 2009, in a CNBC interview, about president-elect Obama:
[/size][indent]
[size="3"]Quote:...he can give new impetus to American foreign policy ââ¬Â¦ I think that his task will be to develop an overall strategy for America in this period, when really a ââ¬Ënew world orderââ¬â¢ can be created. Itââ¬â¢s a great opportunity. It isnââ¬â¢t such a crisis.
[/size][/indent]
[size="3"]According to Professor Carroll Quigley, in his book Tragedy and Hope (1966)
[/size][indent]
[size="3"]Quote:... there exists a conspiratorial network which wants "nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole ... his [the individual's] freedom and choice will be controlled within very narrow alternatives by the fact that he will be numbered from birth and followed, as a number, through his educational training, his required military or other public service, his tax contributions, his health and medical requirements, and his final retirement and death benefits.
[/size][/indent]
[size="3"]
In None Dare Call it Conspiracy (1971), Gary Allen & Larry Abraham opine that the network ...
[/size][indent]
[size="3"]Quote:... wants control over all natural resources, business, banking and transportation by controlling the governments of the world. In order to accomplish these aims the conspirators have had no qualms about fomenting wars, depressions and hatred. They want a monopoly which would eliminate all competitors and destroy the free enterprise system.
[/size]
[size="3"]...[/size]
[size="3"]...
the first job of any conspiracy, whether it be in politics, crime or within a business office, is to convince everyone else that no conspiracy exists. The conspirators success will be determined largely by their ability to do this. That the elite of the academic world and mass communications media always pooh-pooh the existence of the Insiders merely serves to camouflage their operations.
[/size]
[/indent]
[size="3"]
More excerpts from None Dare Call it Conspiracy (1971):
[/size][indent]
[size="3"]Quote:Because the Establishment controls the media, anyone exposing the Insiders will be the recipient of a continuous fusillade of invective from newspapers, magazines, TV and radio. In this manner one is threatened with loss of "social respectability" if he dares broach the idea that there is organization behind any of the problems currently wracking America. Unfortunately, for many people social status comes before intellectual honesty. Although they would never admit it social position is more important to many people than is the survival of freedom in America
[/size]
[/indent][indent]
[size="3"]Quote:One thing which makes it so hard for some socially minded people to assess the conspiratorial evidence objectively is that the conspirators come from the very highest social strata. They are immensely wealthy, highly educated and extremely cultured. Many of them have lifelong reputations for philanthropy. Nobody enjoys being put in the position of accusing prominent people of conspiring to enslave their fellow Americans, but the facts are inescapable.
[/size]
[/indent][indent]
[size="3"]Quote:It is difficult for the average individual to fathom such perverted lust for power. The typical person ... has no desire to exercise power over others, to conquer other lands or peoples, to be a king. He wants to mind his own business and enjoy life. Since he has no lust for power, it is difficult for him to imagine that there are others who have ... [b]ut we must realize that there have been Hitlers and Lenins and Stalins and Caesars..
[/size]
[/indent]
[size="3"]Till about a year back, I had NO conception of the covert subversion of hinduism by christian and islamic forces. After visiting BRF and IF in the appropriate threads, my world view changed. Take the case of the book "Breaking India." The historical narrative and linkages are fabulous!
[/size][size="3"]So while we Indians go into such details about christian and islamic "conspiracies" against hinduism, we offhand deny hidden and dangerous trends in the international arena as [/size][size="3"] "conspiracy theories."[/size][size="3"] THAT is the power of the international media demonisation by association (with certain terminologies), in this case NWO association with the demonised term "conspiracy theory."[/size]
[size="3"]Aren't historical narratives and linkages, underlying devious trends, possible in the international arena too?[/size]
[size="3"]
So, even if you discount all the above, just go through all the threads (that I had linked to in the earlier post) for fun, and come to your own conclusions. <img src='http://www.india-forum.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='
' />
[/size]
[quote name='Amatya Rakshas' date='12 October 2011 - 10:13 AM' timestamp='1318394119' post='113288']
This way it will not be far when Illuminati, Knights Templar and whatnot will start appearing on BR and IF. <img src='http://www.india-forum.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='

' /> And then soon we'll again have PN Oak's Taj Mahal = Hindu Temple, Vatican = Vatika and so on..! <img src='http://www.india-forum.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/angry.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':angry:' /> <img src='http://www.india-forum.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='

' />
[/quote]
Off topic remark,
PN Oak was not too off the mark on the Taj Mahal. There have been a few posts by member Ishwa on this on IF.
Basically, the "Mughal" or "Islamic" architecture was "taken" from the pagan palace architecture of the time. Period Rajput architecture incorporating cupolas was very similar apparently.
Tavernier's (?) remark about the scaffolding costing more than the building of the structure apparently only fits into a scenario where Islamist redecoration work was solely carried out.
I was always agnostic about the Taj Mahal controversy and also thought it not too important.......
Back to topic, Illuminati genre is part of Christian fantasy about the bloodline of Christ.
The pattern seems to be that creative literary revivals by obscure fiction authors gets overtaken by authors with Church affiliations (CS Lewis types) who are attempting literary inculturation and appropriation; this then gets further picked up by Agency types to run geopolitical case scenarios, test public reactions, ambiguate any genuine exposure by the few Sandhya Jains and FW Engdahls (i.e., the CT allegation for genuine anti-colonial work), and also allows them to publicly gloat about still classified misdeeds.
[quote name='dhu' date='13 October 2011 - 04:32 PM' timestamp='1318503269' post='113311']
Off topic remark,
PN Oak was not too off the mark on the Taj Mahal. There have been a few posts by member Ishwa on this on IF.
Basically, the "Mughal" or "Islamic" architecture was "taken" from the pagan palace architecture of the time. Period Rajput architecture incorporating cupolas was very similar apparently.
Tavernier's (?) remark about the scaffolding costing more than the building of the structure apparently only fits into a scenario where Islamist redecoration work was solely carried out.
I was always agnostic about the Taj Mahal controversy and also thought it not too important.......
Back to topic, Illuminati genre is part of Christian fantasy about the bloodline of Christ.
The pattern seems to be that creative literary revivals by obscure fiction authors gets overtaken by authors with Church affiliations (CS Lewis types) who are attempting literary inculturation and appropriation; this then gets further picked up by Agency types to run geopolitical case scenarios, test public reactions, ambiguate any genuine exposure by the few Sandhya Jains and FW Engdahls (i.e., the CT allegation for genuine anti-colonial work), and also allows them to publicly gloat about still classified misdeeds.
[/quote]
This remember of something <img src='http://www.india-forum.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='

' />
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hjWd9a8Ck8U&feature=fvwrel[/media]
[quote name='HareKrishna' date='13 October 2011 - 07:10 PM' timestamp='1318512741' post='113312']
This remember of something <img src='http://www.india-forum.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='

' />
[/quote]
Amazing how equal equals are never "deployed" for such characterizations - Colonizer never gets ridiculed for its appropriations.
Covering up for albino pakiness (?)
[quote name='dhu' date='13 October 2011 - 10:53 PM' timestamp='1318526101' post='113315']
Amazing how equal equals are never "deployed" for such characterizations - Colonizer never gets ridiculed for its appropriations.
Covering up for albino pakiness (?)
[/quote]
Do you have also translation for human language? We ,common humans ,dont get it.
[quote name='Amatya Rakshas' date='12 October 2011 - 10:13 AM' timestamp='1318394119' post='113288']And then soon we'll again have PN Oak's Taj Mahal = Hindu Temple[/quote]
I see Dhu beat me to it. But I can provide a link at least:
AR, on the topic of Taj Mahal, I think you will find it a most valuable use of your time to
[color="#0000FF"]read IF member Ishwa's posts
"Some question(mark)s concerning Mughal architecture" in the
Medieval History thread.[/color]
After reading that, you can make up your own mind.
I think Ishwa really ought to publish his findings as a book (as also his writings on Yavana/Yauna** etc). At the very least, there's the facility these days for him to
self-publish (which would also help others in referencing his work, instead of them having to link to a forum for their authority), besides Ishwa putting his work on scribd etc and even on blogs.
While PN Oak's writings might be found crude and rather unscholarly, his being convinced that the Taj Mahal was Hindu* turns out to have been true in all likelihood - going by Ishwa's work in this matter.
(* "Hindu" not just in the sense that the Taj Mahal was built by Hindus - which IIRC was long admitted even by those who think the TM is a structure ordered by mughals - but that it was owned by Hindus and constructed on Hindu instigation and not that of islam, before islam took it.)
[quote name='dhu' date='13 October 2011 - 10:53 PM' timestamp='1318526101' post='113315']
Amazing how equal equals are never "deployed" for such characterizations -
Colonizer never gets ridiculed for its appropriations.[/quote]A very perceptive observation. I've always managed to overlook this. Yet isn't that what the whole pompous (thieving) "Arische Europeans are behind the Vedas and Samskritam" assertion really is?
[[color="#0000FF"]** ADDED:[/color] IIRC the other Ishwa posts referred to was on Yavana having a different meaning in Skt lit, separate from its use for Ionian Greeks (c.f. Iranian Yauna) and hence all Greeks.]