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Advices To BJP Party - shamu - 06-07-2009
<!--QuoteBegin-AryanK+Jun 7 2009, 03:24 AM-->QUOTE(AryanK @ Jun 7 2009, 03:24 AM)<!--QuoteEBegin--><b>MLA's want Varun to lead in UP</b>
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Giving control of a party to someone just 29 years old is very risky. Looks like somebody is trying to hijack BJP through varun.
Advices To BJP Party - ravish - 06-07-2009
Yes Mr Husky,
We shall meet again and resume our discussions after the 2014 General Election results are out and hopefully the BJP is back in power.Till then good bye .
Advices To BJP Party - Guest - 06-07-2009
Ravishji, Does it mean you aren't going to stand up to your statments till 2014? I don't get it.
Advices To BJP Party - Guest - 06-07-2009
<b>Praveen Togadiya's speech & answers on Hindutva!</b>
VHP Gopali Ashram, W. Bengal: 6.00 P.M, 6th June, 2009:
It is not true that Hindu movement is dead and we are outdated. Christianity 2,000 years old and Islam 1,400 years old are very vibrant practising their Jihadi & Conversion missions and Hindutva (movement among Hinduism for political unity and spiritual upliftment) is only 150 years old started by Bengali Hindu Saints and Leaders like Bankim Chandra Chatterjee, Swami Vivekananda & Rishi Aurobindo. Those who say that 1992 was the climax of Hindu movement was also wrong as proved by recent Ram Sethu Andolan & Jammu Hindu Agitations. Further, inspite of being a Gujarati he said that they are basically traders & peace loving, yet rose to the occasion for protection of Hindutva in recent times and Bengali Hindus can surely do so as they started these all when faced with extermination by crores of illegal Bangladeshi Muslim invaders!
He categorically replied to Bajrang Dal members from Assam, Orissa & Bengal in the fortnight long duration camp that for implementing policies of ban on all organised conversions, compulsory maximum 2 children policy for Indians of all faiths and demand of India must also annexe the 7 Northwest (20% or highest Hindu density in that country) Bangladeshi districts that will also widen & secure our strategic passage to Assam from mainland as we helped form Bangladesh in 1971 among whom over 16% were Hindu-Buddhists but half of them already driven out to India and rest 15 millions also must be rehabilitated; political power is necessary & so infiltrating BJP in large numbers and working for its win on Hindutva plank needed. If it fails and this must be last chance after 2 failed secular attempts then VHP may think of formation of a separate Hindu Party as discussed in their highest council, but currently it don't want division of Hindu votes.
However, need of hour is elimination of foreign Bangladeshi Muslim invaders occupying our land & resources for ouster by killing them outright as a national right & duty just as we did or tried with Chinese in 1962 & Pakistanis in 1948, 1965,1972 & 1999 and this time instead of soldiers we the citizens must take lead!
Togadia in Karnataka.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WTmmNp1jQGE
Advices To BJP Party - Capt M Kumar - 06-07-2009
Lot has been said and lot will be said. Here is a little attempt on consolidation:
1. If 1 was to give advice to BJP, I think Advani himself has said that the main reason was negligible presence in 4 states of AP, TN, WB and Kerala; so, BJP has to build momentum there.
2. RE: Hindutava
If BJP can bring about unification in Hindus, it does not have anything else to do. Anything < than that will not work.
3. If UP unit of BJP wants to rally behind Varun; so, be it.
Not only this, BJP has to think in terms of projecting a future leader as Con-gress party's future face is well known. So, it has to be more than Rahul.
4. RE: Ram mandir
If BJP could not do anything on this issue in it's 6 yrs of power, this issue can't be carried any further.
BJP's chances of revival are good as 3rd front is practically finished which is a good harbinger for 2 party system. At the same time, BJP has proved to be better ally than Con-gress which is daggers drawn w/ it's allies; so, it's chances of staging a comeback are better. <!--emo&:argue--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/argue.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='argue.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Advices To BJP Party - Guest - 06-07-2009
<b>US,Israel,the West support a Hindu Nationalist government in India</b>
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3JhJCHtyS60
Advices To BJP Party - Capt M Kumar - 06-07-2009
<!--emo&
--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tongue.gif' /><!--endemo--> Sudheendra Kulkarni, who is also a close aide of Advani, while giving an insight into the factors behind BJP's defeat in the Lok Sabha elections cited confusion about Hindutva, failure to overcome the party's limited social base, negativism in its campaign and a leadership in disarray.Writing in news magazine, Kulkarni said the BJP needed to rethink its approach to Muslims, Hindutva, the poor, the RSS and itself.
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/India/B...how/4628429.cms
Advices To BJP Party - ravish - 06-08-2009
[Virenji,
I stand by all my statements. I feel the slinging match between me and certain members are not going to improve the pol prospects of the BJP, or will in any way stop the erosion of our cultural and social values.Therefore, I have decided to wait and see what happen at the 2014 elections. However, I intend to participate on discussions other than on BJPs future and Westernisation of the Indian socity.However, this will deepend on how obnoxious my presense will be felt by certain forum members
Advices To BJP Party - dhu - 06-08-2009
Meira as Speaker:Warning bells for Mayawati
Sidharth Mishra
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Those who have travelled to Agra would recall that one of the most important roundabouts in the city has a huge statue of Babu Jagjivan Ram, the late Dalit leader and father of current Speaker of Lok Sabha Meira Kumar. Though Ram belonged to Bihar, he certainly was the uncrowned king of the Jatav community in the period preceding the rise of Uttar Pradesh Chief Minister Mayawati. Agra is one of the strongholds of Jatav community.
Statues of Ambedkar are a common sight in Uttar Pradesh and other parts of the country today. When Mayawati became the Chief Minister for the first time she had Baba Sahebâs statue installed everywhere. Till the time Jagjivan Ram lived, Jatavs remained staunch supporters of the Congress. And in remaining with the Congress, they came in direct confrontation with the landholding intermediate castes, whose cause was endorsed by Chowdhary Charan Singh and before him Ram Manohar Lohia.
Congress in making a combination of the Dalits (then the use of word Harijan from Gandhian lexicon was more popular), Upper Castes and Muslims found an insurmountable formula for electoral victory. The first experiment of Dalits coming together with the intermediate castes or the Other Backward Classes as they have been classified by the Mandal Commission took place in 1977, when Babuji left the Congress and formed Congress for Democracy (CFD) with Hemwati Nandan Bahuguna as his main lieutenant.
CFD and Jai Prakash Narayan-sponsored Janata Party fought election of the same symbol â Haldhar Kisan. The coming together of the Harijans and the OBCs was not borne out of a natural social evolution but political convenience. Ram remained uncomfortable in the company of Charan Singh, who resorted to character assassination to destabilise Ram. Charan Singhâs lackeys, some of them important political functionaries today, orchestrated the infamous Sushma-Suresh sex scandal involving the Harijan leaderâs wayward son.
After the fall of Janata Party Government Ram reconciled to return to his roots in the Congress. Though he never joined the Congress himself, he encouraged his daughter Meira Kumar to resign from the Indian Foreign Service (IFS) and join Rajiv Gandhiâs new look Congress. The first Lok Sabha election which Kumar contested and won was from Bijnore. In that poll Kumar worsted two firebrand leaders, who later were to dominate Dalit politics â Mayawati and Ramvilas Paswan.
The turn of the decade engulfed the nation into an aggressive process of social churning. With Vishwanath Pratap Singh allowing the recommendations of the Mandal Commission report for reservation for the OBCs in the Government jobs, the dynamics of politics suddenly changed.
The perennially opposition castes became the ruling classes. Using the situation to his personal advantage emerging Dalit leaders like Ramvilas Paswan decided to piggy-ride with the pro-Mandal forces, though the Dalits in real terms did not stand to benefit much from the implementation of the Mandal Law.
To the further advantage of the Mandal forces, the rise of Mandir forces led by the BJP allowed further erosion in the mass base of the Congress party especially in the cowbelt States of undivided Uttar Pradesh and Bihar. In the absence of a decisive leadership with Prime Minister PV Narasimha Rao not looking beyond the agenda of his survival, the Congress did the fatal mistake of embracing the Mandal forces and joining hands with the likes of Lalu Prasad Yadav in Bihar.
This led to the complete disillusionment of the upper-caste supporters of the grand old party, who shifted to the BJP. The Muslims realising the Congressâs incapability to counter the BJP too deserted it. Since the 1996 General Election, the Congress reduced itself to be a party owning huge real estate but no mass base in these two States.
The experiment of Dalit-OBC combination did not end with Jagijivan Ram and Charan Singh. In 1993, Mulayam Singh Yadav and Kanshi Ram came together with the Samajwadi Party and the Bahujan Samajwadi Party fighting the Uttar Pradesh Vidhan Sabha polls in an alliance. They swept the Assembly polls. But the alliance was short-term as at the ground level the Dalits and OBCs never enjoyed cordial relations. Mayawati became Chief Minister for the first time with the support of the BJP.
This was to mark the rebuilding of the Harijan-Brahmin-Muslim axis, which for decades had ensured that the Congress remained at the helm. Mayawatiâs this experiment reaped her rich harvest in 2007 Uttar Pradesh Vidhan Sabha polls. With the marching tune of Brahmin sankh bajaega hanthi badhta jayega (The Brahmins would blow the conch and the Elephant would march on), BSP got absolute majority in the Vidhan Sabha.
Exactly two years later, Lok Sabha polls held in the summer of 2009 has indicated towards the wear and tear in Mayawatiâs victory apparatus. The BSP in the just concluded parliamentary polls could retain lead in just about 100 Assembly segments in Uttar Pradesh, where it had won more than 200 seats in the 2007 Vidhan Sabha polls. Its efforts at making inroads in the neighbouring States proved to be a non-starter.
The most significant was the loss of sitting BSP Lok Sabha member Gandhi Azad from Sasaram in Bihar. The seat falling on the Bihar-UP border was the pocket borough of Babu Jagjivan Ram. He never lost any election from here beginning 1952 till he died in 1986. Meira Kumar won the family seat this time with a comfortable margin.
Meira Kumar has the ability to resurrect Jagjivan Ramâs model of developmental empowerment of the Dalits. This could act as an effective counter to the aggressive module of Kanshi Ram and Mayawati. Babuji himself was a very able administrator and provided effective leadership to several important Ministries including Defence during the 1971 War.
With development gaining centre-stage in national politics, the inability of Mayawati Government to give a development oriented administration in Uttar Pradesh and the deteriorating law and order situation could wean the Dalits away from the BSP. Having assigned Meira Kumar a high constitutional position, the Congress has played just the right tune for the return of the Dalits to the party fold. <!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Advices To BJP Party - Guest - 06-08-2009
<!--QuoteBegin-ravish+Jun 7 2009, 02:36 PM-->QUOTE(ravish @ Jun 7 2009, 02:36 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->[Virenji,
I stand by all my statements. I feel the slinging match between me and certain members are not going to improve the pol prospects of the BJP, or will in any way stop the erosion of our cultural and social values.Therefore, I have decided to wait and see what happen at the 2014 elections. However, I intend to participate on discussions other than on BJPs future and Westernisation of the Indian socity.However, this will deepend on how obnoxious my presense will be felt by certain forum members
[right][snapback]98462[/snapback][/right]
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Then you ought stand back on your defense of arguments on 'hindu terrorism' in Malegaon case - how many months is it now? Or your statements on Orissa? Or your past sympathy with Naxalites? Do so and don't run away from arguments.
2004/2009/2014 are mere points in vast expanse of time where leaders/govts come and go. BJP coming into power tomorrow or say 2014 won't change any perception of change in cultural/social values.
If I were to plot a frequency plot of your posts pre-elections and post elections, I can certainly say that the eletion results have added a spring in your step. Kudos. If one plots a scatter-plot of post in threads relevant to your political leanings versus actual issues of culture/heritage/history/social (that you only claim to care about), one gets a mixed picture. You can see how it's easy to get confused on your position when you never finish the discussion.
Advices To BJP Party - Guest - 06-08-2009
<b>Temple Rituals by a Christian Poojari </b>
07/06/2009 14:52:03 Krishnadaya
A Christian constructs a Maha-Vishnu temple in his own homeâs compound. Getting itâs *Prana-Prathishta* done by Brahmina-Tantris. His son learns *Jyothisha* and Vedic Pooja-rituals ; and ignoring the Churchâs prohibition orders, becomes the Poojari of that temple! .
This is the true story of a Faith. It is the true experience of Sri.P.K Thomas (puthenpurackal house, SRP market, Thazhava, Karunagappally, Kerala) and his son P.T John. Now, John is the Poojari of his family-owned Mahavishnu temple in his own compound.
Before this land was the property of Brahmins. At that time, there was *Sarpa-kavu*, Pond and Naga-Deities. In the year 1975, Sir P.K Thomas bought this land from Brahmins. Soon after buying it, he destroyed the âKavuâ, filled the Pond, and dismantled all the Naga-Deities. He got the house and surroundings âVecharippuâ ( Christian ritualistic âpurificationâ) by Christian- priests.
After some days, chronic Infection appeared on both his legs. Also, mental disorder started for younger daughter Ajitha. Many treatments were done but it all failed.
At last, Thomas consulted a Vedic-Jyothishi to find the truth. The *Prasna-Vidhi* (Jyothisha-revelation) recommended the re-consecration of the removed Deities.
Thomas and family who had already suffered terribly for (4) long years, decided to obey it. In the year 1979, a team of Vedic Brahmanas led by Paravoor Kannamballui Illamâs Brahmasri Unnikrishnan Potti and Thazhava Padinjare Madamâs Sridharan Nampoothiri performed the *Prana-Prathishtta* of the new temple.
Being a Yacobite-Christian follower, Thomasâs construction of Vishnu temple, itâs consecration by Brahmanas and subsequent Pooja rituals, invited the wrath of his relatives and Christian community. This fierce opposition became stronger with every passing day. The complaints reached the top church authorities. Thomas was summonsed by the Church âAuthorities. And he was strictly ordered to stop immediately the complete temple activities. Accordingly, the poojas stopped and the temple was closed down. Some days passed like that.
However, Thomasâs son John was not prepared to withdraw like that. From 23rd December 1987, John started offering the *Deepam* (oil-lit lamp) in the temple. Opposition to it arose then also but John ignored it all. Being not satisfied with the offering of *Deepam* alone, John decided to learn Jyothisha and Pooja. In the year 1993, he became the disciple of famous Jyothishi Sri Cheppad K.J Kaimal, and learnt jyothisha for 5 years. Simultaneously, he mastered the poojas from Sri.Narayanan Potti. In the year 2002, he started monthly poojas in the temple.
Six months back, daily poojas too started. Now there is pooja in the morning and evening. John himself does the Pooja-rituals. Wife Rachel and daughter Jeena give him necessary help. On the first day of every Malayalam month, there is Monthly-Pooja. Addition to it are the special poojas requested by Bhaktas.
Bhaktas are happy with Johnâs poojas . Sri.Divakaran Potti (Venkattakkallillom, Thazhava) says âJohn knows the poojas very well. Often I feel that, he does it better than some Brahminsâ.
John is trying to expand the temple further with separate temples for Maha-Vishnu, Durga. Also seating for Yogeeshwara and Nagas. He is confident about it.
Because of his Deity-worship of Hindu-Gods, there is opposition and ridicule from his relatives and Christian community. Even threats are there. However, John is unmoved. His wife and daughter still visit the church and make itâs payments. Because of his involvement with the temple, John does not go to church.
Om Namo Narayanaya !!!
http://www.haindavakeralam.com/HKPage.aspx...eID=8771&SKIN=D
Advices To BJP Party - Guest - 06-08-2009
<b>BJP avoids LS poll debacle analysis</b>
June 7: Lok Sabha poll verdict has left the BJP so dejected that the partyâs central leadership has decided to do away with the otherwise much needed "introspection" on why the verdict went against the partyâs expectations.
The partyâs next national executive â first after the poll debacle â is scheduled for later this month and it is unlikely that it will turn into a "chintan shivir". Though the issue will be taken up, it is unlikely that there will be any serious or major debate on the partyâs performance. The central leadership, it is learnt, is also "avoiding" the chintan shivar" as it is in "intends to evade the wrath" of party cadre. The saffron workers had been complaining of being "completely ignored" throughout the campaigning process.
"One of the major grudges the party cadre has is that central leadership was relying more on technology than its own workers, who were busy doing the ground work for the last five years," said a senior BJP functionary. The party also has "no answers" for why it "failed" to check internal fighting, which was also one of the main reasons attributed by party insiders for the 2004 poll debacle. While a "chintan shivar" after the 2004 poll debacle was held in Maharashtra, the BJP, it seems, is unlikely to analyse reasons this time and take corrective action.
Though there is no word from the partyâs central leadership on the "introspection" issue, sources said it is also because RSS is now playing an "important role" in how the party should function. The RSS, it is learnt, has already formed a team to find out why the party lost, when even the RSS cadre was involved in the campaigning. The big brother of the sangh parivar has asked its cadre to assess why the BJP failed to attract electorate, rather than relying on the BJPâs feedback on the issue.
The RSS, it is learnt, also wants changes in the organisational structure of the party. For this, some of the RSS members are likely to be deputed in the BJP. In this regard, names of RSS national executive members â Indresh Kumar and Dattarey Hosbale â are doing the rounds in the party circle. Also, a major section of the party leaders now want "image makeover" of the party from "Hindutva to secular" image.
http://www.asianage.com/presentation/leftn...-analysis-.aspx
Advices To BJP Party - ravish - 06-08-2009
Virenji,
Some of the interpretations of my stance on various issues are totally incorrect, if I may respectfully submit to you. It is not that I have supported any of those characters and outfits that you have very kindly quoted as examples.
In clear language as per my perception ( I may be wrong) the following are the reasons why these developments have taken place.
1. Naxalite movement of the present day in certain pockets of the country is a result of a feeling among certain section of the population in that area that they have been economically exploited in the past. So they want to bring about a change in the system through violence and terror. What I wanted to convey on this issue is that by simply using force , we cannot bring to an end this problem. We have to bring in social justice and speedy economic development of the affected areas.
2. On Malegaon, it is not impossible for a few Hindu individuals to undertake such a terror attack. Our system is no doubt full of many flaws but it has not come to such a state where the State will stage manage allegations against senior Army Officer without any firm basis. Moreover, the press and the civil society will remain silent spectator to such an issue.Regarding delay in the completion of investigations, it is nothing special in this particular case, The entire investigation and prosecution machinery is slow and hence it is taking time.
3. On the result of the elections, the BJPâs result has not been upto its expectation and that of the Congress has been beyond its own expectation. It is due to a combination of factors . Each commentator and political leader has their own theory on the outcome of the election results.I am no great expert on the subject but I expressed what I saw and felt. The wild alligation of EVM rigging etc would not have been tolarated silently by the political parties who have lost in the elections.There would have been blood bath accross the country particularly in states like Tamil Nadu and West Bengal.
Just to recapitulate, I am of the view that religion and ideology did not play a determining factor in deciding the fate of the various candidates. Factors like development, programme and good governance in the form of welfare measures undertaken by the Government in power did play a deciding factor. I still feel that the influence of the West on our society will increase in the years to come and therefore the relevance of religion as a determining factor in making oneâs political judgment will continue to shrink. This is not because religionâs importance will get reduced in oneâs personal life. It will be because increasingly the voter will distance his political decisions from his own religious beliefs. So the BJP as a political party will have to re adjust its poll strategy.
In conclusion, I still would like to maintain that the outcome of the 2014 elections will indicate whether I am wrong in my prediction or correct.
Advices To BJP Party - Guest - 06-08-2009
<!--QuoteBegin-ravish+Jun 8 2009, 02:29 PM-->QUOTE(ravish @ Jun 8 2009, 02:29 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->
In conclusion, I still would like to maintain that the outcome of the 2014 elections will indicate whether I am wrong in my prediction or correct.
[right][snapback]98495[/snapback][/right]
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Ravish,
You may not have to wait that long!
You also have a blind spot on the rigging and bribing of the election. Come to Tamilnadu and ask any one on the street.
Advices To BJP Party - ramana - 06-08-2009
<!--QuoteBegin-ravish+Jun 8 2009, 08:59 AM-->QUOTE(ravish @ Jun 8 2009, 08:59 AM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->Virenji,
Some of the interpretations of my stance on various issues are totally incorrect, if I may respectfully submit to you. It is not that I have supported any of those characters and outfits that you have very kindly quoted as examples.
In clear language as per my perception ( I may be wrong) the following are the reasons why these developments have taken place.
1. <b>Naxalite movement of the present day in certain pockets of the country is a result of a feeling among certain section of the population in that area that they have been economically exploited in the past. So they want to bring about a change in the system through violence and terror.</b> What I wanted to convey on this issue is that by simply using force , we cannot bring to an end this problem. <b>We have to bring in social justice and speedy economic development of the affected areas.</b>
2. <b>On Malegaon, it is not impossible for a few Hindu individuals to undertake such a terror attack. Our system is no doubt full of many flaws but it has come to such a state where the State will stage manage allegations against senior Army Officer without any firm basis.</b> Regarding delay in the completion of investigations, it is nothing special in this particular case, <b>The entire investigation and prosecution machinery is slow and hence it is taking time.</b>
3. <b>On the result of the elections, the BJPâs result has not been upto its expectation and that of the Congress has been beyond its own expectation. It is due to a combination of factors .</b> Each commentator and political leader has their own theory on the outcome of the election results.I am no great expert on the subject but I expressed what I saw and felt. Just to recapitulate, <b>I am of the view that religion and ideology did not play a determining factor in deciding the fate of the various candidates. Factors like development, programme and good governance in the form of welfare measures undertaken by the Government in power did play a deciding factor. I still feel that the influence of the West on our society will increase in the years to come and therefore the relevance of religion as a determining factor in making oneâs political judgment will continue to shrink. This is not because religionâs importance will get reduced in oneâs personal life. It will be because increasingly the voter will distance his political decisions from his own religious beliefs.</b> So the BJP as a political party will have to re adjust its poll strategy.
In conclusion, I still would like to maintain that the outcome of the 2014 elections will indicate whether I am wrong in my prediction or correct.
[right][snapback]98495[/snapback][/right]
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Ravishji, I havent addressed any posts in particular to you to date. I agreee completely with the bolded parts of your post. One thing is PVNR garu in his speech to US congress in 1993 said that he looks forward to the day when "Politics will become immaterial to the voters of India as their economic and social well being will not be dependent on it (politics)." So in a way what you say is another way of what he was saying in the poltico-religious sphere.
Advices To BJP Party - Guest - 06-09-2009
I was always apprehensive about this Kulkarni guy. Now he is blaming the RSS.
I suspect Advani let him publish it first and then distanced himself!
<b>BJP distances itself from key strategist's comments </b>
IANS
NEW DELHI: The Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) Monday distanced itself from the comments of Sudheendra Kulkarni, a key aide of L.K. Advani, that the Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh (RSS) was responsible for the BJP's debacle in the Lok Sabha polls.
"The BJP distances itself from the remarks of Sudheendra Kulkarni. It is his personal analysis as an independent journalist," the party's deputy leader in the Lok Sabha Sushma Swaraj told reporters here.
"Neither the party nor Advaniji agree with his analysis or his views on the RSS," she said.
Writing in the Tehelka newsmagazine, Kulkarni, who was a key poll strategist of the party, blamed the BJP leadership and the RSS for the debacle in the elections and said they made Advani "look weak, helpless and not fully in command".
While he urged the party to introspect, he said the "the RSS needs it no less. Its leaders must ask themselves, and answer the question honestly and earnestly. Why is the acceptability of the RSS and the Vishwa Hindu
Parishad limited in Hindu society itself?"
He said the party "did nothing" while its allies started moving away because of the 2002 Gujarat riots.
Sushma Swaraj said there were several reasons for the party's defeat not just one and "these would all be looked into at a meeting of the national executive (of the BJP)." It meets June 20 and 21.
http://www.expressbuzz.com/edition/story.a...ehHe7IsSU=&SEO=
Advices To BJP Party - Guest - 06-09-2009
Ravishji,
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->1. Naxalite movement of the present day in certain pockets of the country is a result of a feeling among certain section of the population in that area that they have been economically exploited in the past. So they want to bring about a change in the system through violence and terror. What I wanted to convey on this issue is that by simply using force , we cannot bring to an end this problem. We have to bring in social justice and speedy economic development of the affected areas.
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I doubt there's single village in India where social justice and economic development has reached to any level of success (thanks to 50+ years of your favorite family party), but we don't go about killing and terrorizing their fellow countryman towards those goals. Given most Naxals are well funded and armed with weapons better than our security forces, them being some wronged party doesn't cut it. But off late since Left is out of UPA it might be again fashionable to disown them.
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->2. On Malegaon, it is not impossible for a few Hindu individuals to undertake such a terror attack. Our system is no doubt full of many flaws but it has come to such a state where the State will stage manage allegations against senior Army Officer without any firm basis. Regarding delay in the completion of investigations, it is nothing special in this particular case, The entire investigation and prosecution machinery is slow and hence it is taking time.
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It is also not impossible for a few Martians to undertake same startegy Ravishji and I can prove it too. Zero cost to tax payer. If you read army history (even Indian army) there's tales galore of govt hanging out Army officers out there - so not first or won't be last (google for Capt Rathur on Samba case). We know perfectly well what Govt and Army are capable of.
Yes slow prosecution machinery and all, but you were quick to pronounce judgment even before Sadhvi's torture had started - if I recall. Any new evidence if I might while accused are still languishing in jail? Compared to them Kasaab who actually did harm ATS in 5 diamond luxury hotel!
The irony I say.
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Just to recapitulate, I am of the view that religion and ideology did not play a determining factor in deciding the fate of the various candidates. Factors like development, programme and good governance in the form of welfare measures undertaken by the Government in power did play a deciding factor. I still feel that the influence of the West on our society will increase in the years to come and therefore the relevance of religion as a determining factor in making oneâs political judgment will continue to shrink. This is not because religionâs importance will get reduced in oneâs personal life.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
When NDA came to power for 13 days, 13 months and then for full term, how important was religion to voters. Babri was in what '92? Agree on religion playing lesser role and non-first family parties that will evolve with time.
Advices To BJP Party - ravish - 06-09-2009
Virenji,
We may agree to disagree on our perception of the various unfolding situation. I do not expect that you should adhere to each and every statement that I make. That is the beauty of democracy.I have made my understanding of the situation very clear and you have also done the same . So let us wait for the next round in 2014 and see, in which direction the verdict of the people swing.
Sir,
I presume you are the admistrator of this forum. Perhaps it is time to start a new trend on the Programmes and Performance of the present Government, provided it is not contrary to the policy of this forum.Kindly give a thought to the idea.
Ramanaji,
Our similarity of thoughts brings some ray of hope that wiser sense will prevail upon the blind supporters of BJP, to enable them to take corrective measures before the next round of elections.
Jai Hind
Advices To BJP Party - Guest - 06-09-2009
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->I presume you are the admistrator of this forum. Perhaps it is time to start a new trend on the Programmes and Performance of the present Government, provided it is not contrary to the policy of this forum.Kindly give a thought to the idea.
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Ravishji, I think it's a good idea to read about Govt accomplishment for change. Any member of forum can start a thread and I can't think of any person better than you on this topic. If you remember I had even offered to you take up on pro-123 deal article if you were up to it. Yes, you'll be criticized and your comments challenged - but then isn't democracy a two-way street?
On 2014, it's 60 months away and we'll see 360 major issues between now and then. It'll be interesting to see how it's dealt with going ahead.
Ramana
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->One thing is PVNR garu in his speech to US congress in 1993 said that he looks forward to the day when "Politics will become immaterial to the voters of India as their economic and social well being will not be dependent on it (politics)."<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
PVNR's was a great soul. I'm sure people who admire him haven't forgotten how he was treated lately and even in his death when first family didn't find time to attend his funeral (of ex full term PM); especially given that PVNR was HM in Nov '84 sitting in Delhi.
Karma I guess.
I see argument being made that religion is not something voter cares for given "secular" people get elected. Can this line of thinking be extrapolated to say voters don't care for their personal well being and security given the govt which has failed to act on (or prevent) terrorism keep getting re-elected - example Maharashtra, Delh (2 most 'forward' and 'hip' states?
Advices To BJP Party - Guest - 06-09-2009
In response to Kulkarni here is what his classmate and an ardent admirer of Vajpayee Sri Anil Chawla has to say:
Dear friend,
Namaskar,
Sudheendra Kulkarni, who currently works as an aide to Mr. LK Advani,
is an old friend. In 1975, both of us joined IIT Bombay for B.Tech. A
couple of days back Sudheendra wrote an article "Hindu Divided
Family", which you may read at
http://www.tehelka. com/story_ main42.asp? filename= Ne130609hindu_ divided.asp .
Sudheendra's article has drawn considerable attention in media. I am
replying to Sudheendra in an open letter discussing the role of Mr.
Advani in BJP and also the defeat of BJP in recent elections.
The enclosed open letter to Sudheendra is about 2000 words. Please
read it and send me your comments.
With Best Wishes and Regards,
Anil Chawla
____________ _________ _________ _________ _______
Dear Sudheendra,
I have just read your "deeply introspective essay" on tehelka.com
about BJP's defeat in recent elections. The article is described as
introspective, but I failed to find anything that could be called
introspection by any stretch of imagination. True, you say that "I too
carry my share of responsibility" , but that is more courteous than
introspective.
All through the essay, you look upon BJP as a patient lying on an
operating table and your role as that of an outsider trying to see all
that has gone wrong. The patient is being blamed for all that has gone
wrong, without in any way blaming either the virus or the team of
doctors who have brought the patient to the present critical state.
Please pardon me for being direct and on the face. I guess as a former
classmate I can take this freedom. I campaigned for Janata Party in
1977 elections. Ever since then I have been in and around the party
(JP/BJP) working at various levels. Sure enough, I have not been an
aide to Mr. LK Advani (LK) like you have been. Both of us began
dabbling in public life together at IIT Bombay. I have spent more than
three decades in close proximity with BJP and RSS without ever being
offered a post. I am not alone. There are thousands like me who have
served in their own humble way. What has always surprised me is that
someone like you who was a committed fulltime communist for almost two
decades, suddenly did an ideological somersault and landed up straight
in the top rungs of BJP. When you are in mood for some introspection,
please do think about this. Probably, the roots to the present malaise
in BJP can be traced to your own personal journey.
When a communist suddenly becomes an ideologue for a party like BJP,
there is bound to be skepticism and even some ridicule. It becomes
imperative on the neo-convert to prove that there has been a genuine
transformation of the soul and not just a change of coat. Even if the
neo-convert does manage to prove his credentials, there is no way that
he should ever be allowed to rule over the heads of people who have
devoted their life to the cause. In your case, (a) you have never
proved that you have really changed and (b) you actually landed up on
top of the ranks in a manner that is most inexplicable. I say that you
have not been able to prove your credentials because I have read some
of your articles and I can say with a fair level of confidence that
you remain at heart a communist who is trying to put on the camouflage
of a Hindu.
Dear Sudheendra, I have nothing against you personally. Your
appointment as National Executive member of BJP, at the time of your
joining BJP, and later as Prime Minister's key aide had pleased me
enormously. One always likes to see old friends in positions of power.
The problem is that your case is not an isolated one, but a
representative one. There are many in Delhi and Mumbai who have been
able to gain access to LK's coterie by hook or by crook and it is
these who now rule over BJP.
When you analyze BJP and RSS with a cold surgeon like approach, you
ignore the role that LK's family and coterie has come to play in the
party. Elections of 2009 were not fought by BJP against Congress, but
were reduced by LK and his gang to a war by LK against one and all.
The party has been systematically hijacked and decimated over the past
decade and a half by LK's coterie. You just need to look at the
campaign material prepared by the party for the recent elections.
There is only one face â LK's. Even Atal ji was not considered worthy
of being put on the hoardings and posters. Congress gained mileage
from photographs of Gandhi and Nehru decades after their deaths.
Communists continue to revere Lenin and Stalin till today. Contrast
this with the way LK and his war team dumped Atal ji most
discourteously even though he is alive and continues to be revered by
millions in the country.
You say that the BJP leadership is in disarray. If it is true, the
only person who is responsible for the mess in the party is LK and no
one else. He has ruled over the party with an iron hand for more than
two decades. In fact, the words "Majboot Neta" (Strong Leader) that
were used to describe LK during the recent election, apply only in
respect of the way LK behaves in the matter of crushing his critics
and opponents within the party. He is ruthless in demolishing anyone
who as much as raises an eyebrow against him. He has no patience for
anyone who even dreams of being his equal within the party. Can you
please name for me two people who are LK's equals within BJP, in LK's
vision? LK's desire to stand as a tallest leader made him choose only
pygmies for all critical positions in the party. The only way that one
could rise up in BJP with LK at helm was to act as a subservient
spineless dwarf.
The problem with dwarfs is that while they are very good for boosting
one's ego, they have limited use when one faces a war-like situation.
In the recent elections, LK decided to fight it all alone. LK and his
family and coterie thought that their rag-tag army of laptop
professionals could substitute for the well-oiled and tested machinery
of BJP, ABVP and RSS. The irony is that the blame for the defeat is
now being put on the doors of the organizations that were treated most
shabbily when LK and his team were dreaming of victory. LK and his
team are now complaining that no one from BJP top leadership stood up
to defend him when he was under attack. The fact is that among BJP
leadership, the ones who command any stature were always ignored,
attacked and pushed to the sideline by LK and his gang. So when LK
came under attack he looked around for support and found none. Of
course, there were many rats who were raising their feeble voices in
his support. Unfortunately, the voices of rats do not count. This is
something that LK should have thought before he appointed rats in all
the key positions.
You talk about the party's social base. Did LK do anything in this
regard during the past five years? The answer is an emphatic NO. When
LK did his last `yatra' before 2004 elections, a photograph of his
starting point was circulated. It showed LK standing with his daughter
and wife. There were no BJP leaders on the dais. LK defended the
presence of his family by saying that he drew strength from them. This
is the root of the problem. In the past decade or so, LK stopped
drawing strength from the party or Sangh parivar, and started leaning
on his personal family ignoring the larger family to which small
humble persons like me belong and from where we draw our strength. LK
saw the party and Sangh pariwar as a tool to achieve his personal
ambition at all costs. In the past decade, LK's focus was on building
his personal image, his family strengths, his mafia-like grip on the
party. The thought of getting or building leaders who command or could
potentially command respect in various social groups seems to have
been far removed from LK's mind.
I attended the function at Bhopal of LK's unveiling of his
autobiography in Hindi. What an unabashed projection by a person who
has no achievements worth mentioning even in one paragraph! Future
historians will mention LK as a classic example of a person who had
illusions of grandeur. They will write that he was a manipulator who
was ruthless to independent thought within his party and rose by
methods that ruined the party. Having said that they would probably
add - he saw films and wrote two eminently forgettable
autobiographies. What else is there to mention about LK's lifetime
achievements? Are there any articles / books written by him on
social-political issues? At least I am not aware of any. He is a
self-centered person who cannot see beyond himself and his interests.
If he puts pen on paper it is to describe his own self because that is
all that he can ever see. If he talks about Hinduism / Hindutwa or any
political ideology or national issues, it sounds hollow because he has
never applied his mind to anything except his own interests, his
family, his career, his ambitions, his dreams etc.
You might respond by saying that all politicians today are like that.
You would probably be right on that. But then they know that they are
run-of-the-mill politicians with no illusions of being grand strong
leaders. If LK had realized his own limitations, he would not have
tried to fashion 2009 elections as an exercise to elect him as the
prime minister. The worst thing that happened in 2004 and 2009
elections is that the BJP, under the influence of LK, did not use the
elections as an exercise to take party's ideology forward. In days of
Jansangh, when it used to be absolutely clear that there was no
possibility of winning, the party would still fight. In those days, it
used to be clear that fighting an election was an opportunity to
propagate our ideology and thoughts to a bigger audience. In the 2009
election, the campaign was focused only on the persona of LK ignoring
even the party's manifesto.
As an old hand of the broad ideological historical process that I call
as Hindu nationalistic movement, I have no serious regrets about BJP
losing 2004 or 2009 elections. But I do regret that the party which
was making an attempt in its initial years to define a new vision for
Ekatm Manavwad (translated by me as Monistic Humanism) lost way. I
regret that instead of focusing on issues and ideas the party focused
on an individual. I regret that the party for whom thousands shed
blood and lives became a tool in the hands of some who want to live a
seven-star lifestyle. I regret that personal ambitions and aspirations
of one man became the focus of many organizations that are known for
the sacrifices of their leaders.
Dear Sudheendra, I agree with you wholeheartedly when you say, "The
BJP can indeed bounce back. But it can do so only if it first renews
and empowers itself comprehensively â in its ideology, its
geographical- social spread, its own political strength, its mass
activity, its alliance-building, its cadre-based organizational
network, and its leadership". The difference is in approach. While you
would like to probably do it with LK and his cronies at the helm, I
shall like Sangh pariwar to put the dark days of LK and his cronies
behind.
Sangh leadership must act to decisively purge BJP of LK and his
individual-centered style of working. Competence and not loyalty to
this or that individual must be the criterion for all appointments.
Ideology must take centre-stage once again and those who can help with
defining and clarifying ideological issues should be in key positions
and not sycophants or moneybags.
I am making this letter public because I think that the issues that
are discussed here are very important and need a wider debate. Of
course, I know that this will put me at the risk of harsh retaliatory
action by LK and his coterie. I guess that I have to take this risk in
wider national interest. I hope I can count on you as an old friend if
the action turns nasty.
With Best Wishes and Regards,
Anil Chawla
--
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