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+--- Thread: The Real Indian IQ (/showthread.php?tid=328)
The Real Indian IQ - G.Subramaniam - 02-12-2012
In above URL, is solely for Indian Govt Schools, not private schools
Language-4th grade,
Intl students = 65%
Indian govt school = 25%
Math-4th grade
Intl Students = 65%
Indian govt school = 35%
Next we look at 4th grade math, in quartiles
Delhi = 22.1% above Quartile-1, 95.3# above Q4
Maharashtra = 29.6%, 92.1%
Karnataka = 21.7%, 88.2%
Kerala = 21.4%, 88%
Orissa = 27.7%, 85.9%
Tamil Nadu = 8.8%, 84.8%
Chandigarh = 9.9%, 81.8%
Uttarkhand = 11.1%, 78.9%
All India = 12%, 77%
Andhra = 4.1%, 76.1%
Punjab = 4.9%, 75.3%
Haryana = 6.7%, 74.5%
Bihar = 6.9%, 73.2%
Chatisgarh = 4.0%, 72.7%
Jharkand = 6.4%, 71%
Gujurat= 3.6%, 67.5%
Assam = 7.7%, 63.7%
Rajasthan = 6.3%, 57%
Madhya Pradesh = 4.6%, 56.5%
JK = 1.1%, 24.1%
JK is the richest state and the lowest IQ,
due to islam and banging parallel cousins
The Real Indian IQ - G.Subramaniam - 02-12-2012
http://www.ei-india.com/wp-content/uploads/Main_Report.pdf
This compares elite Indian schools to International schools
At the 8th grade level, Indian top-private schools match International schools
This test is PISA type, which teaches Math comprehension and Language Comprehension
The curriculum that these top private schools deeply affect their pisa performance
Rote learning curriculum like the State boards perform poorly in PISA, while CBSE performs very well
In TN, for example the entire curriculum is rote, the reason is that this makes it easier for low IQ groups to pass and
even score high
Almost none of the TN-OBC groups could get into IIM, which had an entrance test similar to GRE and required thinking and IQ and not
rote memorization
--
Significant differences in schools affiliated to different boards and in different cities: The findings from
board-wise comparison reveals that schools from Council for the Indian School Certificate Examinations
(CISCE) and Central Board of Secondary Education (CBSE) performed among the top 2 and the differences
with other boards were statistically significant. CISCE also performed significantly better than CBSE. The
comparison of scores reveals that students from Kolkata and Delhi performed signicantly better than Mumbai,
Chennai and Bangalore. Mumbai performed at par with overall average of these 5 metros. Bangalore
performed significantly lower than other metro cities. Kolkata had a large number of ICSE schools whil Delhi
had mostly CBSE schools which could be the reason for their higher performance.
--
The curriculum ranking with COMPOSITE PERFORMANCE INDEX
1. Council for the Indian School Certificate Examinations (CISCE)= 14
2. The Central Board of Secondary Education (CBSE) = 9.5
3. West Bengal Board = 5
4. Karnataka Board = 5
5. Maharashtra Board = 1.5
6. TN board = 1.0
--
As you notice TN has the dumbest curriculum score and has the least amount of independent thinking, which is needed to score in PISA
The Real Indian IQ - G.Subramaniam - 02-12-2012
Hispanic IQ in USA = 89, which is same as Nishad IQ ( Caribbean Indian )
However, Nishads have good family caste structure and dont have drug and criminality and teen-pregnancies of Hispanics
The Real Indian IQ - G.Subramaniam - 02-12-2012
http://www.oecd.org/dataoecd/47/23/41943106.pdf
This has the sample PISA questions
A lot of comprehension is required, not rote-memorising
The Real Indian IQ - G.Subramaniam - 02-12-2012
http://qatarskeptic.blogspot.com/2011/03/qatar-and-pisa-test.html
Reading:
Shanghai 556
Korea 539
Finland 536
Hong Kong 533
...
United States 500
...
OECD average 493
...
Qatar 372
Mathematics:
Shanghai 600
Singapore 562
Hong Kong 555
Korea 546
...
OECD average 496
...
United States 487
...
Qatar 368
Science:
Shanghai 575
Finland 554
Hong Kong 549
Singapore 542
...
United States 502
OECD average 501
...
Qatar 379
Ready for how some of the local schools did?
In first place was Al-Khur International School (Indian stream, they also have a British stream)
Reading 603.77, Mathematics 591.73, Science 565.98
--
Dubai expat Indian school , mostly upper caste R1A, matches Shanghai
The Real Indian IQ - G.Subramaniam - 02-12-2012
Above URL
Quatar Arab muslims perform much worse than TN and HP
--
Now for the tough question: according to the article students in 153 schools were tested and the average for all categories was in the 360 to 380 range, which is a pretty poor score (search for PISA on this blog to get an idea of what countries were below that score). If Qatar has a number of schools that perform really well on this test, what does that say about the state of education in many of the other schools who participated? By the time you got to the 30th school the scores were still in the mid-400 range yet the average was a lot lower. This means there are a lot of schools who likely scored in the high 200s-low 300s,
The Real Indian IQ - G.Subramaniam - 02-12-2012
http://www.english.education.gov.qa/content/resources/detail/13217
Has PISA scores for expats in Qatar
These are PISA scores for Middle to Upper middle class expats
Science, Math, Reading
Shanghai = 575, 600, 566
Al-Khur, Indian Stream = 566, 592, 604
DPS Modern Indian School = 552, 538, 563
Birla Public School = 586, 539, 549
Doha Modern Indian School = 554, 525, 514
MES Indian School = 484, 469, 490
Indian Ideal School, girls = 481, 450, 489
Indian Ideal School. boys = 462, 465, 453
Average Indian School = 526, 511, 523
whereas in TN and HP, the scores were around 350
So there is a 150 point delta, of which 50 each for genes, nutrition and teaching methods
--
I went through these school websites
The first thing that stood out is that all are CBSE, which has a more intelligent curriculum than the rote State Boards
Second, the bulk of the students appear to be Nairs etc, and Tambrams are only a small sprinkling
These schools would appear to be a fair sampling of Indian urban english medium CBSE schools
with a predominant middle to upper middle class, mostly dwija castes, R1A, and these schools perform in line with most white countries PISA scores
The Real Indian IQ - G.Subramaniam - 02-12-2012
In PISA
TN = 60% govt school, 40% private school
HP = 85% govt schoo, 15% private school
Math Scores
HP, govt = 331
HP, private = 379
TN govt = 334
TN private = 378
--
Both are virtually identical
The Real Indian IQ - G.Subramaniam - 02-12-2012
In BRF , the posters dismissed the PISA scores, because too many Indian win medals
The problem is all these medal winners are brahmin-bania-R1A, which is no more than 25% of the Indian population
The Real Indian IQ - G.Subramaniam - 02-13-2012
For National Merit,
NY has 969 slots and only 27 Indians
CA has 1900 slots and 184 Indians ( 89 SIB )
If NY had the same caste blend as CA, it should have 96 Indians, not 27
The loss is due to lack of SIB and overabundance of Nishad caribbean Indians
The Real Indian IQ - G.Subramaniam - 02-13-2012
In the PISA,
mean score = 500 = 100 IQ
SD = 100 = 15 IQ
TN and HP come in at 350
which is 1.5 SD below norm
TN, HP, IQ = 100 - 1.5 x 15 = 77 IQ
The Real Indian IQ - G.Subramaniam - 02-13-2012
Trinidad has a PISA score of 410
IQ = 100 - 0.9 x 15 = 86.5
Trinidad is 60% black @ 85 IQ
Trinidad, Nishad Indian IQ = ( 86.5 - 0.6 x 85 ) / 0.4 = 88.75 IQ
Mauritius has PISA score of 440
IQ = 100 - 0.6 x 15 = 91
Mauritius is 5% Euro, 30% black and 65% Nishad Indian
Nishad Indian IQ - ( 91 - 0.05 x 100 - 0.30 x 85 ) / 0.65 = 93
One factor pushing it up here is that the entire 65% is not Nishad, but rather a blend of 50% Nishad and 15% Dravidian
The Real Indian IQ - G.Subramaniam - 02-13-2012
With this low PISA score, I seriously question the claim that India is 75% literate
The Real Indian IQ - acharya - 02-13-2012
In this discussion we need to avoid the caste implication since the Indian IQ has no limitation on the caste makeup
The Real Indian IQ - G.Subramaniam - 02-13-2012
Science, Math, Reading
Al-Khur, Indian Stream = 566, 592, 604 - Apparently open only to employees of LNG
DPS Modern Indian School = 552, 538, 563 - Managed by Delhi Public School Society
Birla Public School = 586, 539, 549 - Birla School
Doha Modern Indian School = 554, 525, 514 - Muslim owner, Nair Manager
MES Indian School = 484, 469, 490 - Muslim owner, Muslim run
Indian Ideal School, girls = 481, 450, 489 - Muslim Owner, Muslim run
Indian Ideal School. boys = 462, 465, 453 - Muslim owner, muslim run
--
First thing to note is all of them use the CBSE syllabus, which is far superior to state board
Next thing to note is that the top 3-4 schools have mostly Hindu students and the bottom 3 have mostly muslim student
The Real Indian IQ - G.Subramaniam - 02-13-2012
Al Khor International School (Indian Stream)
Education System
CBSE- Indian Curriculum
Teaching Language
English
Education Levels provided
KG2- Grade 10
Website link
www.akisis.com
Description
Al Khor International School Indian Stream is a school with excellent facilities and is managed by GEMS. It is owned by Qatar's national gas companies, RasGas and QatarGas, and provides education for children of employees.
==
Has PISA scores better than Shanghai
--
This school is run by GEMS network, run by Sunny Varkey, a Syrian Xtian
The Real Indian IQ - G.Subramaniam - 02-13-2012
PISA reading, math, science
UAE = 431, 421, 438
Qatar = 372, 368, 379
TN = 337, 351, 348
HP = 317, 338, 325
The interesting thing is that all the high performing schools in Qatar and UAE are Indian schools, meaning native Qatar scores are much lower
The Real Indian IQ - G.Subramaniam - 02-14-2012
Qatar School Ranking, top 30 schools out of 153
Mean PISA = 500 = IQ 100
SD PISA = 100 = IQ 15
Science, Math, Reading scores
---
For comparison Shanghai = 575, 600, 566 = 112 IQ
1. Al-Khor Indian Stream, ( GEMS ) = 566, 592, 604 = 113 IQ = Indian Hindu technicians and Engineers of NGL
2. The International School of Choueifat ( SABIS ) = 554, 562, 565 = 109 IQ = Lebanese Xtian
3. Doha College Private ( British Embassy ) = 572, 553, 563 = 109 IQ = UK
4. DPS Modern Indian School ( Delhi Public School Society ) = 552, 538, 563 = 107 IQ = Indian Hindu
5. Qatar Academy ( US educators ) = 540, 547, 562 = 107 IQ
6. American School of Doha, ( US Embassy ) = 553, 546, 559 = 108 IQ
7. Park House English ( UK ) = 568, 528, 552 = 107 IQ
8. Birla Public School = 586, 539, 549 = 108 IQ = Indian Hindu
9. Qatar Intl Private School ( UK ) = 539, 529, 540 = 105 IQ
10. Al Bayan Girls = 481, 464, 516 = Muslim Arab = 98 IQ
11. Cambridge Intl Private School = 531, 484, 514 = 101 IQ
12. Doha Modern Indian School ( Jai Gopal Jindal ) = 554, 525, 514 = 104 IQ = Indian Hindu
13. Al-Khor British Stream ( GEMS ) = 507, 505, 503 = 102 IQ
14. Dukhan English School ( UK ) = 529, 501, 500 = 102 IQ
15. Debakey High School for Health ( USA ) = 492, 467, 493 = 98 IQ
16. Qatar Canadian School = 451, 456, 491 = 95 IQ
17. MES Indian School ( Muslim Education Society ) = 484, 469, 490 = 97 IQ = Indian Muslim
18. Ideal Indian School Girls, ( Muslim ) = 481, 450, 489 = 96 IQ = Indian Muslim
19. Sudanese School = 463, 411, 488 = 93 IQ , remarkably high for black-arab mullatos
20. Al Arqam = 454, 451, 484 = 95 IQ
21. The Gulf English = 468, 448, 482 = 95 IQ
22. Philipine School = 466, 461, 480 = 96 IQ
23. Jordanian School = 446, 422, 472 = 92 IQ
24. Tunisian School = 459, 436, 463 = 93 IQ
25. Lebanese School ( Muslim ) = 444, 501, 463 = 96 IQ
26. Middle East Intl = 484, 452, 461 = 95 IQ
27. Al Andalus = 446, 397, 454 = 90 IQ
28. Ideal Indian School, boys ( Muslim ) = 462, 465, 453 = 94 IQ = Indian Muslim
29. Egyptian School = 463, 435, 434 = 92 IQ
30. American Academy = 462, 434, 434 = 92 IQ
Qatar, 153 school average = 379, 368, 372 = 81 IQ
The Real Indian IQ - G.Subramaniam - 02-15-2012
Some Analysis of above post
1. Al Khor Indian stream ( GEMS ) with 113 IQ beats Shanghai with 112 IQ
2. Al Khor Indian stream with 113 IQ beats Al Khor UK stream with 102 IQ
3, All Al Khor students are children of employees of Qatar NGL, mostly techicians and engineers
4. Indian Hindu schools, #1, #4, #8, #12, with IQ of 113, 107, 108, 104 , with Avg IQ = 108
5. Indian Muslims schools, #17, #18, #28, with IQ of 97, 96, 94 , with Avg IQ = 96
The Real Indian IQ - G.Subramaniam - 02-15-2012
#4, DPS school, had 678 of its students take the Math olympiad
http://www.dpsmisdoha.com/DPSDoha/UserSpace/UserName/admin/DynamicFolder/news/2010-News/News%202011/5thIMO_RESULT_SHEET2012.htm
Of the first 30 on the list ( not by ranking ) , 12 are brahmins and of which 9 are SIB, and should be a good proxy for upper middle class schools
also has 4 muslims and 4 xtians
This school has thousands of students and hundreds in each grade, whereas the Al-Khor top ranking school has 25 kids per each grade and is a lot more pickier