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Sarasvati Civilization - Printable Version +- Forums (http://india-forum.com) +-- Forum: Indian History & Culture (http://india-forum.com/forumdisplay.php?fid=3) +--- Forum: Indian History (http://india-forum.com/forumdisplay.php?fid=10) +--- Thread: Sarasvati Civilization (/showthread.php?tid=431) |
Sarasvati Civilization - ramana - 02-18-2009 http://www.nature.com/news/2009/090217/full/457945a.html <!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin--><b>Rethinking silk's origins</b> Did the Indian subcontinent start spinning without Chinese know-how? Philip Ball <b>Ancient silk strands have been found in artefacts from Pakistanâs Indus valley. I. Good New findings suggest that silk making was not an exclusively Chinese technological innovation, but instead arose independently on the Indian subcontinent.</b> <b>Ornaments from the Indus valley in east Pakistan, where the Harappan culture flourished more than 4,000 years ago, seem to contain silk spun by silk moths native to the region. What's more, the silk seems to have been processed in a way previously thought to have been a closely guarded secret within China.</b> There is hard and fast evidence for silk production in China back to around 2570 BC; <b>the newly discovered objects are believed to date from between 2450 BC and 2000 BC, making them similarly ancient.</b> There have been no previous finds of manufactured silk at sites outside China before about 1500 BC. "This is the first evidence for silk anywhere out of China at such an early date," says Irene Good of Harvard University in Cambridge, Massachusetts, one of the authors of the study. "It was a complete surprise." <b>The objects come from two sites in the Indus valley: the city of Harappa itself, the hub of the Indus civilization, and Chanhu-daro in Sindh province, about 500 kilometres to the south.</b> They were collected from archaeological excavations in 1999 and 2000 conducted by the Harappa Archaeological Research Project (HARP), a USâPakistan collaboration. Because of the sheer volume of artefacts amassed so far, they have only recently been studied in detail. Good, working with HARP directors Richard Meadow of Harvard University and Jonathan Kenoyer of the University of Wisconsin in Madison,<b> used an electron microscope to look at the fine structure of silk strands found in necklaces and bangles.</b> <b>The precise shape of the individual silk threads </b>â determined by the shape of the orifice through which they are extruded â <b>is characteristic of the species of silk moth that produced the strands.</b> In a paper in the journal Archaeometry, the researchers show that the Harappa samples â two metal ornaments â <b>contain silk from species of Antheraea moths indigenous to south Asia</b> (I. L. Good, J. M. Kenoyer and R. H. Meadow Archaeometry doi:10.1111/j.1475-4754.2008.00454.x; 2009). The origin of the Chanhu-daro silk, threaded through soapstone beads, is less clear, but it may be from one of the same species. <b>Chinese silk comes from the domesticated silk moth Bombyx mori.</b> <b>The Harappan silks seem to have been made by a process called reeling, in which the strands are collected on a bobbin rather than being twisted in short segments into a thread.</b> The researchers say that reeling was thought to have been part of a silk technology known only to China until the early centuries AD. Now it seems that knowledge was not so exclusive. "Archaeology in early China is showing increasingly there were connections outside China," says Shelagh Vainker, a silk expert at the Ashmolean Museum in Oxford, UK. "It doesn't seem unreasonable." But she sees evidence for silk production in China "significantly earlier" than 2500â2000 BC, which would suggest China could still claim priority. <b>"I believe that the people of the Indus civilization either harvested silkworm cocoons or traded with people who did, and that they knew a considerable amount about silk," says Good.</b> She does, however, acknowledge that some might find this challenging: "National pride is at stake with such a discovery as this." <!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd--> How is Tussar silk spun in traditional way in rural India? I wonder if the Harappan practices have continued in rural India. Sarasvati Civilization - ramana - 04-24-2009 X-post from BRF <!--QuoteBegin-"Gerard"+-->QUOTE("Gerard")<!--QuoteEBegin-->'Indus Valley civilization was literate' Indus script encodes language, reveals new study of ancient symbols Scholars at odds over mysterious Indus script <i>"Entropic Evidence for Linguistic Structure in the Indus Script." By Rajesh P. N. Rao, Nisha Yadav, Mayank N. Vahia, Hrishikesh Joglekar, R. Adhikari and Iravatham Mahadevan. Science, Vol. 324 Issue 5926, April 24, 2009. </i><!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd--> Gurus what say you? Sarasvati Civilization - ramana - 04-25-2009 One more from Wired Magazine: http://blog.wired.com/wiredscience/2009/04/indusscript.html Note comments on Farmer et al>! Sarasvati Civilization - Guest - 04-25-2009 Ab Steve Farmer ka kya hoga, Kalia? Sarasvati Civilization - ramana - 05-01-2009 The U of Wa paper calling the Indus language to be voice based but unknown is interesting. If we allow that Indus script is local to India there must be a myriad Indian languages that could fit the pattern. One would search among the tribals who might be the closest to the Indus people. Or it might have been a pre-Brahmi script for proto-Sanskrit. Sarasvati Civilization - dhu - 05-01-2009 the illiterate harappan "hypothesis" is just these jokers' way of solving the frawley paradox. it's like cutting the gordian knot in an act of extreme gladiatorship (even iconoclasm). expect more tamashagiri as the ship goes asunder. Sarasvati Civilization - ramana - 08-05-2009 From Hindu, 4 August 2009 <!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Indian-led team seeks to unlock secrets of Indus script Washington (PTI): <b>A team of researchers, led by an Indian, is using mathematics and computer science to piece together information about the still-unknown script of the Indus Valley civilization, dating back to 4,000 years</b>. The study shows <b>distinct patterns in the symbols' placement in sequences and creates a statistical model for the unknown language. "The statistical model provides insights into the underlying grammatical structure of the Indus script," said Rajesh Rao,</b> the lead author of the study published this week in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences. He said such a model can be valuable for decipherment, "because any meaning ascribed to a symbol must make sense in the context of other symbols that precede or follow it." Nobody has yet been able to deciphere the Indus script. <b>The symbols are found on tiny seals, tablets and amulets, left by people inhabiting the Indus Valley from about 2600 to 1900 B.C. Each artifact is inscribed with a sequence that is typically five to six symbols long, said a release by the University of Washington.</b> According to calculations, "the order of symbols is meaningful; taking one symbol from a sequence found on an artifact and changing its position produces a new sequence that has a much lower probability of belonging to the hypothetical language." "The finding that the Indus script may have been versatile enough to represent different subject matter in <b>West Asia </b>is provocative. :?: This finding is hard to reconcile with the claim that the script merely represents religious or political symbols," said Mr. Rao, an associate professor of computer science at the University of Washington. <!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd--> Someone contact him and send him a link to this forum and page. Sarasvati Civilization - Husky - 09-27-2009 http://rajeev2004.blogspot.com/2009/09/eda...hows-sindu.html <!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin--><b>edakkal caves in kerala shows sindu-sarasvati type sign</b> sep 26th, 2009 you mean the 'aryan' tourists actually reached as far as kerala, no doubt to enjoy the legendary charms of kerala women :-), and they were given tourist visas locally (or was it missionary visas)? <b>www.thehindu.com/2009/09/26/stories/2009092661621200.htm</b> i have to head to the ancient edakkal caves one of these days, just as i keep promising myself i'll go to bhimbetka. Posted by nizhal yoddha at 9/26/2009 06:14:00 AM 0 comments <!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd--> What, what? Kerala beat me out? <!--emo& ![]() Excerpts and images from the old news (June 2007) that Dhu had posted earlier and which The Chindu took off in a hurry: www.hinduonnet.com/fline/stories/20070629000206400.htm <!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin--><b>Rock galleries</b> TEXTS: T.S. SUBRAMANIAN PICTURES: K.T. GANDHIRAJAN AND P. MANIVANNAN The discovery of rock art, dating back to 2000 B.C., in Tamil Nadu offers a peek into history. [...] <img src='http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v130/indiaforum/20070629000206402.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' /> Image caption: <i><b>THE CENTAUR-LIKE IMAGE in white ochre at Karikkiyur, the largest rock art site in South India.</b></i> [...] Mavadaippu is the latest discovery by the team. It had discovered a prehistoric rock art site at Porivarai (2003), and ancient rock paintings at Salekkurai and Sundasingam (2005), near Karikkiyur, about 40 km from Kothagiri in the Nilgiris. In fact, the team was totally unprepared for what awaited it at Porivarai. It turned out to be the largest rock art site in South India with about 500 paintings in an area that is 53 m long and 15 m wide. <b>Experts say the rock paintings at both Mavadaippu and Karikkiyur could be dated to 2000 B.C. to 1500 B.C.</b> How did they stumble upon this treasure trove? The group was at Kothagiri to provide training in arts and crafts to tribal youth at the Don Bosco Community College when it visited Konavakarai, a tribal village, where a rock art site reportedly existed. But the villagers were not aware of its existence. Disappointed, the team returned to the college in Chennai. During a discussion on rock art that evening, an Irula tribal student from Karikkiyur said he had seen such paintings on a rock-shelter in a forest near his village. Chandrasekaran and Gandhirajan lost no time in making it to Karikkiyur. A 7-km trek through an elephant corridor led them to the rock-shelter, locally known as Porivarai. The paintings in white ochre include a procession of bisons, monkeys clambering up a tree branch, a herd of deer grazing, human beings welcoming one another with outstretched arms, <b>a battle scene with men aiming at each other with bows and arrows, men on horseback engaged in battle,</b> a shoulder-clasping dance after a successful boar-hunt, a man with a mask, the depiction of sun and its rays, a spiral, a tiger fighting another animal, and a man and his dog sleeping. <img src='http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v130/indiaforum/20070629000206406.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' /> Image caption: <i>THE MASTERPIECE OF Karikkiyur is a realistic depiction of bisons moving in a row, in red ochre. </i> [...] <img src='http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v130/indiaforum/20070629000206411.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' /> Image caption: <i><b>A battle scene at Karikkiyur, depicting men with bows and arrows and on horse back.</b> </i><!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd--> Spoil-sport WitSSel wanted to call in to declare omnisciently that these must be donkeys instead "obviously", since "there are no horses". Sadly he had the wrong number. Sarasvati Civilization - ramana - 10-30-2009 Tharoor's Son writing in TIME. Decoding Indus Script Says Easter Island script has similar picture writing. Its a pop article but need to look at what the original research turns p and tie it to the gene migration and see what to make of it all. Sarasvati Civilization - ramana - 11-04-2009 Kalai Venkat's review of Romila Thappar's book. Its very long but informative. http://www.indiastar.com/venkat1.html Sarasvati Civilization - ramana - 11-05-2009 Kalyanram garu, Take a look at this. Does it make sense? http://www.goldenageproject.org.uk/325oldbooks.html <img src='http://www.goldenageproject.org.uk/images/slides/worlds-oldest-books.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' /> <!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->A comparative list of signs from the Easter Island script and the Indus script, comparison made by de Devesy. From this it is likely that the scripts are related. The script, according to Heyeerdahl, was brought to the island from South America, South America was colonized from India both by the Pacific and the Atlantic routes, in the third and fourth millennia B.C., but most often via the Mediterranean and the Atlantic. <b>The columns with even numbers represent the Easter Island script, those with odd numbers represent the Indus Valley script.</b> <!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd--> Sarasvati Civilization - Guest - 12-13-2009 Quote:UPA now admits Saraswati existed Sarasvati Civilization - ramana - 01-27-2010 Reply to above article: From Pioneer: Quote:EDITS | Wednesday, January 27, 2010 Sarasvati Civilization - ramana - 02-21-2010 Indus script enigma Archaelogy Magazine. ![]() Quote:"Unicorn" seals, like this one from Mohenjo-Daro in Pakistan, are among the most distinctive Indus artifacts. Though it has only eight symbols, the inscription is long by Indus standards. (Copyright J.M. Kenoyer, Courtesy Dept. of Archaeology and Museums, Govt. of Pakistan) Quote: Insider: The Indus Enigma Sarasvati Civilization - ramana - 05-05-2010 Looks like Uty of Chicago has an upcoming seminar on Indus and Mesopotamia. Harappa region was called Meluhha by the Akkadians ie Mesopotamia. There are refs to ships from Meluhaa. So the seminar could be talking about that. Meantime Dr Iravatham Mahadevan wrote Meluhaa and Agastya And a synopsis of the Sarasvati Civlization: Intro to Sarasvati Civilization Sarasvati Civilization - ramana - 06-01-2010 Anybody know Russian? ![]() Link: http://rapidshare.com/files/392859486/Drevnjaja_Indija_djvu.rar The book is written in 1997 and yet has lots of pictures about Indus civilization. Dont know the text but is worth the pictures. Sarasvati Civilization - ramana - 06-25-2010 Parpola claims a Dravidian link to the Indus script! Dravidian Solution to Indus Script Problem Lecture at the Chennai Tamil Conference. PDF 35 pages long. Can we have some tight analysis please. Thanks, ramana Sarasvati Civilization - ramana - 07-27-2010 Anyone read this author's book" Jeyakumar Ramaswami He has a different view of the Indus Valley Civilization. Sarasvati Civilization - ravicv - 07-28-2010 [quote name='ramana' date='04 August 2009 - 11:42 AM' timestamp='1249414452' post='100130'] From Hindu, 4 August 2009 <!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Indian-led team seeks to unlock secrets of Indus script Washington (PTI): <b>A team of researchers, led by an Indian, is using mathematics and computer science to piece together information about the still-unknown script of the Indus Valley civilization, dating back to 4,000 years</b>. The study shows <b>distinct patterns in the symbols' placement in sequences and creates a statistical model for the unknown language. "The statistical model provides insights into the underlying grammatical structure of the Indus script," said Rajesh Rao,</b> the lead author of the study published this week in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences. He said such a model can be valuable for decipherment, "because any meaning ascribed to a symbol must make sense in the context of other symbols that precede or follow it." Nobody has yet been able to deciphere the Indus script. <b>The symbols are found on tiny seals, tablets and amulets, left by people inhabiting the Indus Valley from about 2600 to 1900 B.C. Each artifact is inscribed with a sequence that is typically five to six symbols long, said a release by the University of Washington.</b> According to calculations, "the order of symbols is meaningful; taking one symbol from a sequence found on an artifact and changing its position produces a new sequence that has a much lower probability of belonging to the hypothetical language." "The finding that the Indus script may have been versatile enough to represent different subject matter in <b>West Asia </b>is provocative. :?: This finding is hard to reconcile with the claim that the script merely represents religious or political symbols," said Mr. Rao, an associate professor of computer science at the University of Washington. <!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd--> Someone contact him and send him a link to this forum and page. [/quote] Good on Rao and his team! They're placing some of Panini's concepts on structure, grammar and semantics within the context of 21st Century science. Sarasvati Civilization - ravicv - 07-28-2010 RE: UPA now admits Saraswati existed Good! Now they have to admit that the earth revolves around the sun and not the "son" or SG! That will be a difficult task. Don't these people know that the Atharva Veda explicitly states that it was written on the banks of the Saraswati, which was the great river (often called a "Samudra" in some ancient texts) whose tributaries were the other two great rivers-the Sutlej and the Yamuna. Going by recent satellite data, it appears likely that the present day Rann of Kutch was the delta of the Saraswati river and referring to the Saraswat as a "mythological" or "fabled" river is tantamount to fraud and disinformation! |