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Indian Missile News And Discussion - balai_c - 04-19-2012 Arun sir, in a recent NDTV panel discussion, C Raja mohan has been complaining of the fact that china has more missiles than us , with greater numbers,and also strikingly, :quality. Would you please offer your valuable comments on this? I would be much obliged. What is your take on this observation? Thanking you in advance! Indian Missile News And Discussion - Arun_S - 04-19-2012 Keeping busy, limits my time to do detailed analysis. Will post my views in pieces. IMHO satellite launch capability is being mis read by media. The craft can only place very small satellite in low earth orbit. Hardly of military value (mil value sats are RISAT type weighing few humdred Kg in 900 km orbit.) OTOH what the spokesmen are saying is that the craft is capable of placing few hundred kg sats in low earth orbit; a.k.a this missile is a full range ICBM (>20 K Km reach) that can place a half tonne warhead any corner of the world. I am surprised no one has caught on this clear statement. Indian Missile News And Discussion - ramana - 04-20-2012 Arun, Two reports from Hindu(TSR & YM) and TOI (Rajat Pandit) say terminal velocity was 7km/sec. The re-entry was powered with the conical motor! MARV(ellous) I would say. And ICBM velocities in non-MARV mode. Indian Missile News And Discussion - Arun_S - 04-20-2012 [quote name='ramana' date='20 April 2012 - 04:13 AM' timestamp='1334874923' post='114698'] Arun, Two reports from Hindu(TSR & YM) and TOI (Rajat Pandit) say terminal velocity was 7km/sec. The re-entry was powered with the conical motor! MARV(ellous) I would say. And ICBM velocities in non-MARV mode. [/quote] http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Canister-storage-gives-N-capable-Agni-V-missile-flexibility/articleshow/12739130.cms Great!!! These two report confirm: 1. The third stage was conical 2. Third stage fired during re-entry, meaning it did MaRV/BgRV 3. 7 km / sec re-entry speed meaning its a full ICBM 4. precision of few meters (not few tens of meters) 5. All three stages were composite motors. Not clear if all three stages were carbon composite or only the upper stage was carbon composite. That pumps up teh mass fraction of these motors in high 90 percents, tremendously increasing the total impulse delivered to payload. "Quote: These included rocket motor casings made up of carbon composites, the motors contoured to suit the missile's shape, high-performance navigation, guidance and control systems and rail/road mobile launcher. .... .. Dr. Sekaran, the chief designer of the missile, stressed that the rocket motor casings made up of carbon composites gave the missile a better performance. 6. the 3rd stage was carbon composite, meaning it was capable of taking on Max-Q temperature stress during powered BgRV style flight profile. 7. IOW flight was BgRV to make it ABM resistant: Quote: DRDO has also worked to reduce the radar and other ''signatures'' of missiles like Agni-IV and Agni-V to make them ''much more immune to counter-measures''. Indian Missile News And Discussion - Arun_S - 04-20-2012 On MaRV or BgRV terminology: 1. Since the third stage was separate from RV, it acted much like BgRV. This way 3'rd stage only sees Max-Q-temperature and not over-designed bulk for Max-Q-pressure. 2. After 3'rd stage is expended it is separated from RV, that increases the ballistic coefficient of the RV. Reducing thermal signature as well as radar signature. 3. The shape and size of RV clearly indicates it is capable of MaRV. That further reduces any counter measures possibility. I say WoW !!!!! Indian Missile News And Discussion - Arun_S - 04-20-2012 NDTV video states that the Agni-V can launch 300 kg satellite in orbit. Clearly means it can do full range delivery for >300 kg payload http://www.ndtv.com/video/player/the-9-oclock-news/agni-v-launch-a-strategic-milestone/229830?hp Indian Missile News And Discussion - Arun_S - 04-20-2012 [quote name='balai_c' date='19 April 2012 - 01:22 PM' timestamp='1334821498' post='114693'] Arun sir, in a recent NDTV panel discussion, C Raja mohan has been complaining of the fact that china has more missiles than us , with greater numbers,and also strikingly, :quality. Would you please offer your valuable comments on this? I would be much obliged. What is your take on this observation? Thanking you in advance! [/quote] IMV C Rajamohan is speak the truth w.r.t. the missile force China has arrayed against India. Most of them much superior from the point of robustness because they have tested it umpteen number of times. Even if their accuracy is not few meters the matching warhead makes them a superior weapon. There is some Indian superiority that is now coming to fore, in terms of accuracy and ABM hardness. Also please note how many Agni missiles and Agni-warhead we have in hands of Indian defense forces versus what what PLA has now and the logistics experience they have for last many decades. IOW missiel in development and not available in quantity (and trained users) is a missile that is meaningless (irrelevant ) for fighting war. Indian Missile News And Discussion - Arun_S - 04-21-2012 In space program as well ballistic missiles program, the motors, electro-mechnical part, electronics etc are made in batch; typical 5-10 units in a batch. For new missiles the static test usually expends half dozon or so, and for flight test typically has 4-5 units. In case of Agni-V, the first two stage are common to Agni-3, and A3 has been delivered to forces (albeit temporary stopgap force of A3) thus is in line production with many units in WIP and production spare. So it can be safely assumed that few of A5 are already on bench for testing and couple for initial operational certification. The cost of motor spares as well as other parts, is relatively quite affordable (cost effective). So surely there are many A3 in hand for use, while few A5 can be test launched and couple to spare for interim requirement. Indian Missile News And Discussion - Arun_S - 04-21-2012 200 Kt relatively light to moderate weight warhead ride atop A-V.(most yield from fission) The Surya kind of warhead will be proofed very soon. Not a question of if, but when. Indications are, soon. Indian Missile News And Discussion - Ravi - 04-21-2012 No intention to cap missile programme with Agni-5 By Ajai Shukla Business Standard, 21st Apr 12 After the near-perfect debut of the Agni-5 long-range ballistic missile, which yesterday travelled 5000 kilometres to accurately strike a target in the southern Indian Ocean, Dr VK Saraswat, the Defence R&D Organisation chief, declared that the Agni programme would continue and that there was no question of capping Indiaââ¬â¢s missile programme. Addressing a press conference in New Delhi, Saraswat said, ââ¬ÅOur development needs are based upon todayââ¬â¢s threats, and also evolving threatsââ¬Â¦. So there is no question of capping any programmeââ¬Â¦. Today, in a short time, we have gone from Agni-4 (launched in Nov 11) to Agni-5, Obviously we have a threat profile which is evolving and I am not sure it will ever remain static. So we are going to continue to develop missiles to meet our future threats.ââ¬Â The first big enhancement to the successful Agni-5 will involve creating the capability of hitting several different enemy targets with multiple warheads on a single missile. This technology, called multiple, independently targetable, re-entry vehicles (MIRVs) is already being developed by the DRDO. Dr Avinash Chander, the DRDOââ¬â¢s chief controller of missiles, explained that such a missile would be ââ¬Åall-compositeââ¬Â. The Agni-5 has three stages, with the second and third stage built of composite materials. The next missile will have a composite first stage as well, making it lighter and, therefore, able to carry a heavier payload than the 1.5 tonne payload of the current Agni-5. According to DRDO sources, an MIRV payload would be significantly heavier, since it would consist of several nuclear warheads, each of them weighing about 400 kilogrammes. A 5-warhead MIRV, therefore, would weigh two tonnes. ââ¬ÅThe primary modules of MIRV are in an advanced stage of development. Realization and integration of them into a weapon is just a question of threat perceptions and the need as it arises,ââ¬Â said Chander. Saraswat laid down a two-year time line for the Agni-5 to enter operational service. ââ¬ÅWe will do two more validation tests, which should take about 1ý years. After that, we will begin production (of the Agni-5) and we will start handing it over to the military. Once they have it, they will do some launches for their training as well. This will take about two years.ââ¬Â The DRDO chief revealed that the missile was 80% indigenous, with just 20% consisting of ââ¬Åthose components which are easily available as part of the electronics components industry.ââ¬Â He stated that the missile does not contain a single critical component that is under embargo. Indian Missile News And Discussion - balai_c - 04-21-2012 [quote name='Arun_S' date='20 April 2012 - 11:56 PM' timestamp='1334945934' post='114703'] IMV C Rajamohan is speak the truth w.r.t. the missile force China has arrayed against India. Most of them much superior from the point of robustness because they have tested it umpteen number of times. Even if their accuracy is not few meters the matching warhead makes them a superior weapon. There is some Indian superiority that is now coming to fore, in terms of accuracy and ABM hardness. Also please note how many Agni missiles and Agni-warhead we have in hands of Indian defense forces versus what what PLA has now and the logistics experience they have for last many decades. IOW missiel in development and not available in quantity (and trained users) is a missile that is meaningless (irrelevant ) for fighting war. [/quote] So, when do you believe would the large scale manufacture of our ballistic missiles begin? Would we be having individual MRBM ,IRBM , ICBM, or would there be one missile (like AGNI 5 ) serving all the purposes of a battlefield commander? Thanking you in advance! Indian Missile News And Discussion - Arun_S - 04-22-2012 [quote name='balai_c' date='21 April 2012 - 05:09 PM' timestamp='1335007902' post='114709'] So, when do you believe would the large scale manufacture of our ballistic missiles begin? Would we be having individual MRBM ,IRBM , ICBM, or would there be one missile (like AGNI 5 ) serving all the purposes of a battlefield commander? Thanking you in advance! [/quote] War fighting as well as deterrence requires a set of weapons best suited for a range of options. IMHO:
Indian Missile News And Discussion - Ravi - 04-22-2012 Arun sir i am not a expert on missiles but have basic knowledge on how a rocket works. I am have seen ISRO videos about rocket's, but have some doubts with regard to missile... 1.Sir can u plz mark the stages of Agni v missile, i am really confused with it and i am not able to differentiate in the pic. 2. When and at what altitude does the stage separation take place. 3. What is importance of each stage. 4. Is there any propulsion in warhead or does it re-enter atmosphere only bcoz of gravitation. If there is no propulsion in the warhead and its just the gravitation theory, what guides the missile to correct it self and attack the target. Indian Missile News And Discussion - Guest - 04-22-2012 [quote name='Arun_S' date='19 April 2012 - 10:26 AM' timestamp='1334810925' post='114691'] http://drdo.gov.in/whatsnew/AGNI%20A5-01.wmv http://drdo.gov.in/whatsnew/AGNI%20A5-02.wmv Surprising to see that first stage burn time is 90 seconds, as against my expectation of 55 seconds. Indicates that DRDO has figured out realization of squeezing high density into available F/S volume. Something that French did only few years ago for their sub launched missile. [/quote] There are two headlines in HT India downplayed Agni-V's capacity: Chinese experts Chinese media continues to belittle Agni test I think Chinese are not surprised, but they know India will keep them busy and now time had come to use Pakistan to keep India busy. Indian Missile News And Discussion - Arun_S - 04-23-2012 [quote name='Raviprakash' date='22 April 2012 - 07:49 PM' timestamp='1335103882' post='114713'] 2. When and at what altitude does the stage separation take place.[/quote] One can know this if only trajectory data is made available by DRDO, but given it si restricted information, we can only estimate possible values from known inofrmation in weight, payload, stage-1 burn time, peak altitude and fligth time. From which I know for sure that it was not a pure ballistic flight ; IOW the re-entry vehicle did glide upon entering atmosphere. a.k.a its did a BGRV trajectory at end of ballistic phase. So the approximate is: Stage ---- Altitude ---- Velocity Stage-1 -- ~25 Km -- 1.4 Km/sec Stage-2 -- ~150 Km -- 3.7 km/sec Re-entry velocity - 7 km/sec Quote:4. Is there any propulsion in warhead or does it re-enter atmosphere only bcoz of gravitation. If there is no propulsion in the warhead and its just the gravitation theory, what guides the missile to correct it self and attack the target. Yes there are small thusters to control vehicle attitude during atmospheric flight for both BGRV phase and MaRV phase. Indian Missile News And Discussion - vasu_ray - 04-23-2012 Arun, assuming a 2.4m dia solid fueled missile with no constraint of height such as for an SLBM, and say is about 20 metres in height, leaving out the optimal configuration and other details, what will be the rough estimate of its throw weight into LEO, is it even approaching PSLV in capability? Indian Missile News And Discussion - Arun_S - 04-23-2012 [url="http://ibnlive.in.com/news/agni-v-tested-only-for-5000-km-range/250971-60-118.html"]Agni V tested only for 5,000 km range [/url] Quote:Apr 22, 2012 at 07:11am IST Estimating trajectory based on GoI/PTI issued data, BgRV section was fully tested, simulations seem to agree with above assertion of somewhat more then 5000 km range. >5K & <6K Indian Missile News And Discussion - Arun_S - 04-23-2012 [quote name='vasu_ray' date='23 April 2012 - 12:46 AM' timestamp='1335121738' post='114717'] Arun, assuming a 2.4m dia solid fueled missile with no constraint of height such as for an SLBM, and say is about 20 metres in height, leaving out the optimal configuration and other details, what will be the rough estimate of its throw weight into LEO, is it even approaching PSLV in capability? [/quote] Too open ended question. Orbital payload is highly sensitive on massfraction of upper stages and many other factors (E.g. will all the stages be composite carbon made? ). No, it will not approach PSLV capabelity. Indian Missile News And Discussion - Arun_S - 04-23-2012 Some useful histornics albiet from the man who joined the dark side and wrong side of history. The last two paragraphs he is selling snake oil by perporting that handful of missiles with 10kt yld will suffice. Someone should ask teh naked emporer, how come his massa does not subscribe to his snake oil doctrine and eliminate all assembled and dis-assembled nuke (and burn the fuel in civil reactors), and just go nude with handful of 10 kt bums !! He is parroting his masters voice. So much of the self proclaimed India's missile man <img src='http://www.india-forum.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' /> <img src='http://www.india-forum.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' /> <img src='http://www.india-forum.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' /> K. Subramaium should not have soiled his own name by co-writing an article with this slithering snake, in last years of his illustrious life. [url="http://www.deccanchronicle.com/360-degree/agni-mrs-g%E2%80%99s-wish-fulfilled-india%E2%80%99s-missile-man-603"]Agni, Mrs Gââ¬â¢s wish fulfilled: Indiaââ¬â¢s missile man[/url] Quote:April 22, 2012 By Dr V.S. Arunachalam Indian Missile News And Discussion - Guest - 04-23-2012 [url="http://www.dnaindia.com/india/report_india-cut-agni-v-range-under-nato-pressure-chinese-media_1679419"]India cut Agni V range under NATO pressure: Chinese media[/url] Quote:The state-run Global Times which derided the missile even before it was launched saying that Chinese nuclear power is "stronger and more reliable and India had no chance" to catch up said today in yet another scathing write-up that "India has little to celebrate" as China has raced ahead and outclassed India in development. |