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Indian Missile News And Discussion - Guest - 02-13-2010 [quote name='Arun_S' date='13 February 2010 - 04:26 AM' timestamp='1266014926' post='104165'] What part of my post indicate that I do not know? I am no new bee, and write after due technical considerations. Thought I am willing to learn. [/quote] yes ~350 KM LEO will be more useful for longer life crafts. You will be hard pressed to defend your above one liner which has no legs to stand on, for 350 KM LEO is not suitable for long life of the crafts. See what the following says: The lifetime of a satellite is strongly dependent on its altitude. At 300 km altitude it may last for 20-50 days (depending on the Sun's activity level) before it reenters and burns up. However, at 180 km, this lifetime reduces to mere hours. I have nothing against the messenger, I was after the message (above) which is universally flawed as per prevalant astronomy set of norms..... I might be new here, but I have migrated from other forum and know how to separate the chaff from the grain because I am not fresh off the boat. Good luck! Indian Missile News And Discussion - Arun_S - 02-13-2010 [quote name='ankit-s' date='13 February 2010 - 04:56 AM' timestamp='1266016739' post='104166'] yes ~350 KM LEO will be more useful for longer life crafts. You will be hard pressed to defend your above one liner which has no legs to stand on, for 350 KM LEO is not suitable for long life of the crafts. [/quote] On LEO I am simply responding to Ramana, and Ramana is not just asking question related to orbital life due to drag (he and I knows what LEO is used for, and both of us know intricately residual upper atmospheric drag, there are other forces in low orbit other than drag that he & I am referring to). I don't want to get into any further argument with you on this. Indian Missile News And Discussion - Guest - 02-13-2010 Shiv saar, What sort of apogee are we talking about if say a missile has to travel ~ 1000 or 1500Km? (I say a chini - NoKo type missile)? Is the 100+ Km altitude of intercept of PAD say from a naval platform adequate for midcourse intercept? I note that the distance from Sonmiani to Mumbai is some 950 Kms. Indian Missile News And Discussion - Guest - 02-14-2010 [quote name='Gagan' date='13 February 2010 - 05:47 PM' timestamp='1266062977' post='104178'] Shiv saar, What sort of apogee are we talking about if say a missile has to travel ~ 1000 or 1500Km? (I say a chini - NoKo type missile)? Is the 100+ Km altitude of intercept of PAD say from a naval platform adequate for midcourse intercept? I note that the distance from Sonmiani to Mumbai is some 950 Kms. [/quote] Mr gagan, out of curiosity, you are looking out 4 Dr Shiv of BR fame would come here n reply you? Although I have a pony brain, but the likelyhood of this is very thin. Dr. Shiv is my fav witty n Intellectual person who knows something of everything n eveything of something. However, if this question was meant for other erudite person, I may try 2 respond with ur permission, cause the question has been left begging for several hours now with no takers..... Happy 2 help na... Indian Missile News And Discussion - ramana - 02-14-2010 So dregs are coming here too? 350km has more life than 200km and that is what I learnt from the reply. Why are you so combative? And what your real agenda? Indian Missile News And Discussion - Arun_S - 02-14-2010 [url="http://news.rediff.com/column/2010/feb/09/why-indias-military-needs-an-urgent-update.htm"]Why India's military needs an urgent update[/url] Quote:February 09, 2010 17:58 IST Indian Missile News And Discussion - sai_k - 02-14-2010 [quote name='ramana' date='13 February 2010 - 07:27 PM' timestamp='1266110360' post='104193'] So dregs are coming here too? [/quote] ..but I just lurk and try to understand what you guys talk. I visit here often to read what Arun ji says. <img src='http://www.india-forum.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' /> Indian Missile News And Discussion - Guest - 02-14-2010 [quote name='ankit-s' date='14 February 2010 - 12:44 AM' timestamp='1266087966' post='104186'] Mr gagan, out of curiosity, you are looking out 4 Dr Shiv of BR fame would come here n reply you? Although I have a pony brain, but the likelyhood of this is very thin. Dr. Shiv is my fav witty n Intellectual person who knows something of everything n eveything of something. However, if this question was meant for other erudite person, I may try 2 respond with ur permission, cause the question has been left begging for several hours now with no takers..... Happy 2 help na... [/quote] Horrible error on my part and thanks for pointing that out ankit-s. Indeed fatal error. <img src='http://www.india-forum.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' /> Perhaps you can answer that question for me. What I hoped to get elaboration on was, as someone pointed on BRF, wrt the Dhanush test off a Sukanya class and seemed to suggest that there is a similarity between the liquid fuelled dhanush and the PAD. I wonder if India will eventually deploy a PAD equivalent on a naval platform, and further if the PAD is intended to be used as a midcourse intercept vehicle. Arun_S and I had a discussion on BR where he suggested that India was readying a midcourse intercption capability wrt china. While I thought this was not possible with the current PAD, because the the chinese ICBM launch sites are too far north and their altitude will be beyond PAD's capabilities. But wrt Pakistan, certainly the PAD or its ultimate derivative might be capable of midcourse intercept even. Even better if such a system is mobile on a navy vessel. PS: why do you refer to people who also post on BRF as 'abc from BR'? <img src='http://www.india-forum.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' /> Indian Missile News And Discussion - Guest - 02-14-2010 [quote name='ankit-s' date='14 February 2010 - 12:44 AM' timestamp='1266087966' post='104186'] Mr gagan, out of curiosity, you are looking out 4 Dr Shiv of BR fame would come here n reply you? Although I have a pony brain, but the likelyhood of this is very thin. Dr. Shiv is my fav witty n Intellectual person who knows something of everything n eveything of something. However, if this question was meant for other erudite person, I may try 2 respond with ur permission, cause the question has been left begging for several hours now with no takers..... Happy 2 help na... [/quote] Let the facts unfold on Nodong with the range of 1200 that fit yr parameters (1000-1500km) Manufacturer: Korea North. Launches: 7. Failures: 1. Success Rate: 85.71%. First Launch Date: 1990-05-01. Last Launch Date: 2006-07-05. Launch data is: continuing. Apogee: 150 km (90 mi). Liftoff Thrust: 255.000 kN (57,326 lbf). Total Mass: 14,500 kg (31,900 lb). Core Diameter: 1.19 m (3.90 ft). Total Length: 14.82 m (48.61 ft). Standard warhead mass: 700 kg (1,540 lb). Maximum range: 1,200 km (700 mi). Boost Propulsion: Storable liquid rocket. Guidance: Inertial. Nodong Chronology 1990 May 1 - Gitdaeryung -. Test mission Agency: CMIK. Apogee: 150 km (90 mi). 1992 June 1 - Gitdaeryung -. FAILURE: Failure. Test mission Agency: CMIK. Apogee: 0 km ( mi). 1993 May 29 - Gitdaeryung -. Test mission Agency: CMIK. Apogee: 150 km (90 mi). 2006 July 4 - 19:04 GMT - Gitdaeryung -. Agency: CMIK. Apogee: 150 km (90 mi). 2006 July 4 - 22:31 GMT - Gitdaeryung -. Agency: CMIK. Apogee: 150 km (90 mi). 2006 July 4 - 22:32 GMT - Gitdaeryung -. Agency: CMIK. Apogee: 150 km (90 mi). 2006 July 5 - 08:20 GMT - Gitdaeryung -. Agency: CMIK. Apogee: 150 km (90 mi). Now you got clear picture of apogee numbers @ 1200 KM on NOKO type as u desired..... Indian Missile News And Discussion - Guest - 02-14-2010 [quote name='Gagan' date='14 February 2010 - 06:22 PM' timestamp='1266151451' post='104207'] Quote:Horrible error on my part and thanks for pointing that out ankit-s. Indeed fatal error. Fatal error is better than a fatal accident! Quote:Perhaps you can answer that question for me. Sure my friend Quote:What I hoped to get elaboration on was, as someone pointed on BRF, wrt the Dhanush test off a Sukanya class and seemed to suggest that there is a similarity between the liquid fuelled dhanush and the PAD. I wonder if India will eventually deploy a PAD equivalent on a naval platform, and further if the PAD is intended to be used as a midcourse intercept vehicle. Arun_S and I had a discussion on BR where he suggested that India was readying a midcourse intercption capability wrt china. While I thought this was not possible with the current PAD, because the the chinese ICBM launch sites are too far north and their altitude will be beyond PAD's capabilities. If you have a mobile patform, where u can move it to yr desired point of launch place (in this case up north) and with a combo of PAD n AAD (precision 0.5m)you are able to shoot a chinese intruding missile. Remember India is able to shoot satelites (albiet unproven), however if they dont want to demonstrate for political reason is another ball game. According to scientist V. K. Saraswat such missiles will work in tandem to ensure a hit probability of 99.8 percent. If u have a range of over 150 kms and a maximum velocity of 1400 m/s with faster on board comps and precision INS system coupled with adequate software codes, the job is doable with flying colors Gagan Quote:But wrt Pakistan, certainly the PAD or its ultimate derivative might be capable of midcourse intercept even. Even better if such a system is mobile on a navy vessel. Yes! due to a proximity factor wrt to Pakistan. A mobile launcher or a sea platform, vessel, is a luxury, because it can be moved to where one wants to make it a point of launch place. Quote:PS: why do you refer to people who also post on BRF as 'abc from BR'? <img src='http://www.india-forum.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' />[/quote] If you r not comfy, I would desist from so doing....... But.....Look at what you have done here in the following on the same issue: Quote:Arun_S and I had a discussion on BR Is it a "lion giving vegetarian lecture to a lamb" type situation here ? Hey I am all smiles.....you are good, I like yr style. Indian Missile News And Discussion - Guest - 02-15-2010 <img src='http://www.india-forum.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' /> Thanks for answering that. So this means that AD-1 / AD-2 provided they have that altitude of intercept, will be able to provide quite good midcourse intercept for pakistani origin missiles. To protect Mumbai- southern India, such a system may be placed anyway along the coast or on a warship, and will be able do its job effectively. Compared to boost phase and terminal stage intercept, mid-course intercept if possible is supposedly more easier? I would assume the missile speed is the lowest, most missiles don't maneuver and there is comparatively less clutter for the radars. Indian Missile News And Discussion - Arun_S - 02-15-2010 [quote name='sai_k' date='14 February 2010 - 12:11 PM' timestamp='1266129205' post='104200'] ..but I just lurk and try to understand what you guys talk. I visit here often to read what Arun ji says. <img src='http://www.india-forum.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' /> [/quote] Sai_K: I do not believe that remark was directed at you or constructive participates like you. I am happy to interact with you. Gagan: You have ROCKSIM, use this confign for Nodong/re-painted Paki Gadha-Ghodi and see for yourself what apogee will be for lofted or depressed trajectory for a Paki missile aimed at Delhi, Agra, Mathura, Nagpur, Ahmedabad, Mumbai. Code: Pakistan Ghauri - DPRK Nodong.cfg ADD/PAD for mid course intercept for the trajectories Pakis could/would use will not work, not withstanding Nodong published test flights trajectories, Pakis will not use those trajectories. Note that current know mid course interception by US plan to take down missile near mid point of it trajectory. AAD/PAD have restricted umbrella coverage, given their known interception altitude. Like all ABM system, mid-course interception business is even more dependent on early warning systems and accuracy of precision radars. AAD is of no use if it is not aimed precisely (no matter how many AAD one shoots, even in a volley). Indian Missile News And Discussion - Bharat_2009 - 02-15-2010 There is no news about Agni II (AT) but work is going on. India's future missile arsenal would include Shourya (may replace Agni I) Agni II (AT) (extended range version of Agni II) Agni III (tech demonstrator) Agni III (3A) with 3 stages(can it be called as Agni V ??) Agni III (3B) with 4 stages (can also be called as Agni IV ??) Agni III (3C) with 3 stages (Agni III SLBM) India is also working on a long range radar for AD-1 and AD-2 anti-ballistic missiles for IRBM and ICBM interception. May be, we are looking at mid-course interception by AD-1 and AD-2 anti-missiles. It looks like Indian armed forces would be well set by 2020 with 5 ATV nuke subs, Agni III SLBMs, Medium combat fighters (MMRCA), couple of squadrons of PAK-FA, 2 to 3 aircraft carriers, long range subsonic cruise missile Nirbhay and stealth war ships. Indian Missile News And Discussion - Arun_S - 02-16-2010 [url="http://www.asianage.com/home/india/1672-drdo-divided-on-failures-of-agni-ii.html"] [url="http://www.asianage.com/home/india/1672-drdo-divided-on-failures-of-agni-ii.html"]DRDO divided on failures of Agni-II[/url] [/url] Quote:Monday, 08 February 2010 21:36 The problem with self binding missile testing restrain, is that failure analysis is extremely difficult on a production missile with just one or two flight data sets. Instead of finger pointing, it would be better to do more tests and eliminate possible failure modes. More test flights that result in failure may temporarily impact missile readiness to deterrence, but is the fastest method to locate failure, fix it and get Agni-II back on track to credible deterrence. The other option is double jeopardy: recessed warhead deterrence (due to limited warhead qty, and fissile material stock) riding on a recessed reliability missile; a.k.a long window of deterrence exposure. Indian Missile News And Discussion - Arun_S - 02-16-2010 [quote name='Bharat_2009' date='15 February 2010 - 12:04 PM' timestamp='1266215182' post='104227'] There is no news about Agni II (AT) but work is going on.[/quote] Correct Agni-II-AT (the 1.2 m dia missile) will be mass manufactured and will be the mainstay for IRBM ranges. Ms. T Thomas took over that project, and I hope she promptly get this missile in the open. Quote:India's future missile arsenal would include Correct. Quote:India is also working on a long range radar for AD-1 and AD-2 anti-ballistic missiles for IRBM and ICBM interception. May be, we are looking at mid-course interception by AD-1 and AD-2 anti-missiles. Once India has space based BM surveillance (to detect missile launch) , and long range radars then 2 stage variant of AAD will be capable of ICBM and mid-course interception, or at least as the missile nears Indian air space. Quote:It looks like Indian armed forces would be well set by 2020 with 5 ATV nuke subs, Agni III SLBMs, Medium combat fighters (MMRCA), couple of squadrons of PAK-FA, 2 to 3 aircraft carriers, long range subsonic cruise missile Nirbhay and stealth war ships. Aaap Kay Muh Main Gud aur Shakkar. Indian Missile News And Discussion - Arun_S - 02-16-2010 [url="http://beta.thehindu.com/news/national/article107287.ece"]Different version of BrahMos to be tested [/url] Quote:K. V. Prasad So this version of Brahmos employs a trajectory that is terrain following type, while the earlier ones fly higher at cruising altitude. At low altitude cruising, the Mach 2.5 missile will scare the shit out of Abdul's below with its sonic-boom, while at the same time make life impossible in what was difficult in the first place for even AESA equipped Super Hornet F-18. What people do not talk about BrahMos is that for given size and fuel carried inside it is more capable than the stated range of 290 km, and with all the excess fuel in hand it can do all kinds of "S-curve" dance and/or low altitude flying. Indian Missile News And Discussion - Guest - 02-16-2010 There won't be 5 ATV N subs, but at current rate there might be 4 (possibly 5) N subs, including the Akula(s), with the IN by 2020. This is just a decade from now. Indian Missile News And Discussion - Guest - 02-16-2010 WRT Brahmos and the Brahmos 2, how will India step out of the MTCR range issue? WIll India have to demonstrate that the B-2 is and Indian designed missile? Or will a co-produced missile do? Indian Missile News And Discussion - shijo - 02-16-2010 Arun sir, with all the different modes tested on brahmos, will it be easier to integrate all this things in Nirbhay missle. or r we trying to test terrain hugging nirbhay in the name of brahmos..... Indian Missile News And Discussion - Arun_S - 02-16-2010 Nirbhay's sub-sonic flight control and sensor processing is much more easier than Brahmos flying at Mach-2.5 |