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Vegetarian Discussion - Husky - 12-04-2012 Not related to vegetarianism. [color="#0000FF"]www.youtube.com/watch?v=g7WjrvG1GMk varAha rescues meSha[/color] Awe.Some.Ness. No surprise, I suppose. Remember Da Varaaha: apparently knowledgeable sources like the Harivamsha provide details about that Yagnyaangah, whose every part - and even movement/speed - is nothing less than a live/embodied aspect of the vedic yagnya. Clearly such greatness is invariably reflected in this mini - but still bright - emanation of that Penultimate version of this form. No wonder Hindoos like varaahas. And I always thought it was because they were so impossibly cute and good-natured and very friendly. Turns out they are more super than I knew... Anyway, now I know who to call if I ever get myself into a pickle. Vegetarian Discussion - aditigir - 04-29-2013 I am really impressed with your thread. Vegetarian Discussion - Husky - 02-08-2014 [color="#0000FF"]As will become obvious very quickly, the only things remotely relevant to the thread are the sections in quoteblocks. (The bit on the Fox-spirits is actually part of native heathen JP and KR tradition, and I think CN tradition too.)[/color] ______________________________________________________________ The Tails of the Missing Vaahanam Hereby is narrated a certain important feature of the Emperor Julian's life that is prominent in all parallel universes but this one (this one being a great aberration) in which he was ever victorious. It has often been noted that His Highness The Earthly Male Superlative was Self-Complete and lacking in nothing. While this is true, the other observation that is equally true is that all major Heroes and most Divinities are seen accompanied by what is called in Hindoo terminology as a "vaahanam", a sacred animal that is always represented with the hero or Divinity. This is true not only of many historical heathen heroes but also of those fictional heathen heroes that strike at the heart of truth. An example for both cases that easily come to mind include the Varaaha of Taro and the Red Elk of Ashitaka. While some have commented that something seemed "missing" about the Emperor's person by which they subconsciously allude to the absence of a vaahanam, in truth, his Exalted Imperial Perfection did possess one such animal also. Most in our world would tend to conclude that it must have been a Horse, this being a great sacred animal and one much popular for it. However, every soldier in the Roman cavalry and the Trojan one before it had one heroic steed such as this, and therefore a Horse could not distinguish the Earthly Male Superlative from all the other men. The details of the particular Animal, its species, its origins, its features, its names, its heroism, its peculiarities, its life and its passing are herewith documented, pieced together from various ancient Roman and Greek accounts and hearsay. That Great Goddess of the Greeks and Romans alike, Unequalled in battle and who did subdue Ares himself during the war at Troy, once did give divine thought to what sort of animal would best suit the Imperial Champion, and which could accompany him loyally, serve him in good stead and for the particular purpose she had in mind for it, and be generally memorable to the adoring heathen masses. Deciding upon its species in unison with the counsel of Kronion and the other Deathless Ones, she sped off from Sacred Olympos to the Land of The Rising Sun which belonged to the exalted Nipponese Sun Goddess Amaterasu and other Sacred Kami. There, a Japanese variant like that of a husky of somewhat orange hue did live in ancient times, as it does yet linger though in sadly reduced numbers today. Its Japanese name was then unknown to the ancient Roman chroniclers, though the Olympic Goddess did privately come to know it from the Kami themselves, who introduced her to the animal. But modern heathen Classicists know to supply its name now, being more familiar today with the Karafuto-Ken (known in the west by the name Sakhalin Husky), [1] which is the ancestor of the brave ancient Akita dog breed that famously inspired the courage and perseverance of Samurai. [2] The Graeco-Roman Goddess, having landed in the sacred land inhabited and hallowed by the Kami, sought immediate counsel in her friendly undertaking with those Deathless Ones who reside ever there. As a token of their lasting and ancient friendship, the Kami of the Heavens and the Earth brought forth a divine animal for Athena to gaze upon. She clapped and cheered upon seeing the sacred Shinto hound, and after befriending it, she put the whelp in an intricate bag she had wrought for the purpose and took it back speedily to the sacred lands that were home to the Olympic Gods and the Greeks and Romans. There she devised to introduce it in timely fashion into the life of the Great Earthly One Favoured By Olympus. Thus, akin to the Celestial Hound of Erlang Shen of the Daoists, the emperor Julian would acquire a Hound of his own. Although the Goddess acquainted the animal with the fact that its purpose in being brought here was to serve as a faithful comrade to a Kingly Man, she withheld the identity of the Human so as to allow the animal to make up its own mind in its own time. It was some years after Julian's return to his ancestral religion, but before his rise in the Imperial ranks to Caesar, that the Goddess orchestrated a meeting between the dog and the young prince. There are several tales that purport to document where exactly the encounter took place. [3] What is consistent between the accounts is that, surprising him, it barked at him valiantly, and, perceiving both its bravery and good-natured friendliness, he took to it. Over time, he coaxed it into following him, after demonstrating to it that he was a friend to animals. The animal -- possessed of prodigious powers to discriminate between the worthless and worthy, which many humans have yet to acquire -- decided that the young prince was far more than worthwhile, having concluded that the human was complete in himself and therefore worthy of its own company, and followed him willingly. In time, as with all those in possession of a dog, the man came to more deeply admire his animal's attractive furry appearance and heroic and amiable canine qualities, and spent numerous pleasant hours in its company staring up at Helios and sacred night skies together: it would howl at the moon, at times joined by a wolvish chorus in the distance, while he contemplated his empire and love for his Gods. While he took joy in its company, in its turn, it followed him everywhere. Fiercely loyal and of a bravery matching that of the bravest Shinto warriors before and since, it accompanied him into armed confrontations at all times. First into battle and last in the retreat, of a speed like unto that of the Divine Wind (said to have been a blessing of the Wind Kami), with a bark that reverberated throughout the Four Worlds -- these being Kronion's seat at Olympos, Poseidon's domain the Sea, Erebus where Father Dis doth reign and the Earth ruled in common by the Three Exalted Divine Brothers. Some say the impressive and widely-heard acoustics of the bark that made the world tremble was partly owing to the Glorious Athena favouring it by striking Her Spear hard against her Shield every time it was prone to emit the Canine Thunder. Others explain that it already possessed this quality from its own Shinto origins: that its beloved Kami, especially the Thunder, had blessed it with the ability to summon their voices in conjunction with its own. Others say both reasonings are of equal truth, and did combine together to make the sound all the more magnificent. Whatever be the case, the barking during battle, and the howling upon its forcibly dismounting an enemy, would send fear into the heart of foes -- who would reel mindless and supine to the auditory assault -- while speeding courage into the hearts of friends who would jump up, invigorated, to re-double their assault on the witless. In sacred imagery of the Emperor as Warrior, his Dog would be seen alongside him donned in Divine Armour also. It was none other than the skilled God Hephaestos, labouring alongside Kami Smithies, that had factually fashioned the Samurai-like armour bearing Hellenistic motifs for the earthly canine to wear into battle. Athena had guaranteed to a very young Karafuto-Ken that it would be suitably-attired for battle if it would but serve its future master faithfully, and she had proceeded to introduce the creature to Hephaestos. Thereupon, the God had taken its measurements and created the fearsome dazzling armour, just as in days of yore He had created divine armour for the Peleides, King of the Myrmidons, as well. The details of the remarkable armour have been so accurately described, they are visible in the sculptures of the Great Heathen Hero and his Heathen Shinto Animal Friend that have profusely littered the Hellenistic world after the 4th century. The deed Julian's animal companion is best remembered for occurred during the Persian Campaign of the Emperor, when it leapt into the air and caught the spear that would have speared the Spearman. The world over, those heathens with divine vision nodded to themselves that this was a game-changing event in the annals of their universe, whereas to the stunned Roman soldiery gathered it was an act of great skill and heroism: the Emperor would have been attacked treacherously from behind, by the latest christian plot, and things could well have ended in ways too (permanently) terrifying for them to have imagined. But the creature is said to have sensed the impending villainy as if by its mystical animal senses -- though some say Athena had brought it all the way to the Empire from Japan for this very purpose and had instructed the animal to keep watch for this very moment -- and after catching and snapping the deadly missile, it leapt on the christian Arabian assailant, dislodged him from his horse and brutally cracked his skull or snapped his neck (both accounts are given). The Roman soldiers, dumbfounded both by the speed and the vehemence with which the creature launched itself on the enemy, found their voices again and hailed its greatness, its protection of their beloved King and its contribution to their victory. The King himself, turning instantly around, felt shock at the nearness of possible death and gratitude to his furry companion, but mingled with a sense of horror: the creature's attack on the human assailant was violent and almost vengeful. It had grabbed and shaken the head of the man it overcame vigorously -- the head had been crushed in its Jaws Of Death -- and it thereafter bayed and then howled to the sky, as if marking that it had fulfilled its stated duty. (Some eyewitnesses record that an eagle passed on the auspicious side at this time.) The wolvish creature's fangs dripped blood and its facial and neck fur were covered in the same and the whole aspect of the creature seemed no longer orange or even brown, but dark like that of a raging storm with angry red eyes, as it turned for one last look around. It had then looked veritably like it was in that state which the far-off Hindoos call Raudrakaalam. The Emperor was fearful the creature may have gone fey and wild, having fallen prey to some sudden disease -- perhaps even rabies -- not having ever known it in this mood before, and his later descriptions explained that he had wondered then whether and how this was indeed the same Dog he knew, the one that would not stop absurdly wagging its tail at him in friendly familiarity. However, the creature seemed to regain its composure almost instantly after howling its completion of its bloody mission, and the dark sea of its fur regained a recognisable brown shade as it returned to the Emperor's side and fought on normally. [4] Julian himself did wash the blood from its fangs afterward -- though its divine armour had by that time gained a permanent red mark to commemorate its discharging its purpose -- and coaxed the creature back into good temper, at which point it seemed to be again the playful pup he had known. These events have been recorded by numerous biographers and close friends of the Emperor: Libanios devotes an entire chapter on the Hound's Triumph, and several composers included the event in their war ballads. Christians, of course, cursed the heaven-blessed creature for a while, but they came to nothing in the end as the Emperor's renewed efforts thereafter permanently routed their diseased religion until this and all its fatal potentialities wafted away from the world like the memory of an ill wind. Although the creature was very faithful to its Human and his men, it had its idiosyncracies: it would not hunt. [5] This peculiarity has been mentioned by various biographers who were told the matter by the Emperor himself, as owing to how, in the animal's country of birth, the pup had befriended various animal creatures and learnt their speech. As a result, it would adamantly refuse to join any of the imperial troops in La Chasse and would stay behind, though it did not judge them upon their return. It allowed that the Emperor must needs catch the Sacred Apis Bull, though rare, to offer to Jupiter to ensure the prosperity of the Hellenistic Empire and its protection from the alarming Cretin infestation that had then still been proceeding apace. The canine's own dietary preferences included steamed cabbage and carrots and raw fruits which the Emperor had his men specially prepare for its delectation. However, the Emperor himself undertook its periodic baths, as would happen when no stream was nearby for the creature to run or paddle in and briefly submerge itself under. On the occasions of a bath, the playful creature would wrestle with the King and always made the event into a sort of game with as end goal trying to get the Emperor rained under by its energetically shaking off the water from its glorious coat, even sneaking up on Julian at the end of the bath time if it had not tasted success before. In time, the Emperor saw through the game and gave up trying to remain dry. A remarkable trait of this Hound that seems to have passed into legend, from where its effects may perhaps have become magnified over time, is that to children, friend and the heathenising the creature appeared of easy approach: cuddly, cute and -frankly- irresistible; a beautiful vision that appeared in their dreams thereafter (as it had initially done to Prince Julian, at that early time when it had yet to make itself a permanent member of his close circle), especially whenever they were assailed by fears and despondency. After its appearance during their minds in slumber, they woke up refreshed with a sense of being protected by The Earthly Male Superlative and His Hound, even as their worries dissipated as fog in the bright Sun. Children were inspired to draw the attractive furry animal and invent further adventures concerning it, while parents did feed others of its species in fond remembrance of how these were related to the Emperor's Companion. To the soldiers of the Emperor, it appeared as their comrade, one of their own, a loyal, trustworthy, fleet, four-footed warrior that would join them in their charges and help track down the living trapped underneath the rubble of war to recover them. It served as their mascot and its bark was their rallying call and its howl was their victory cry. To enemies and the christianising, however, the Hound was their veritable nightmare manifest into tangible and definite form. Its face was fanged and contorted into a vision of fearsomeness for them. This dreaded memory of the Great Enemy of mono-gawdism and his Hound has passed down in space-time, to reappear unreasonably even in this world, in islam's description of the hound and all its kind as "Al-Shaytan", "the Devil". The moslems shudder in irrational fear at its distant all-pervading echo from parallel universes, and seek protection from it by appealing to their non-existent invisible entity. During the day, their fear and hatred for the Divine Shinto Animal manifests in their brutalising dogs. But the Warrior Dog of the Emperor watches all their crimes and will repay them all one day. In christianised countries of our world, the animal went down in myth as the Hound From Hell, and resurfaced in both its imposed christian aspect of villain and its heathen aspect of loyal heroic friend even in such recent works as Tolkien's Lays of Beleriand, where the Hellish Carcharoth, Morgoth's Wolf of Angband, was derived from the christian version of the Canine's lingering influence in our dimension, even as the Dog was the inspiration for Huan, the Hunting Hound of the Elves who was befriended by Luthien; both of these characters of modern myth being based on the same creature. Whatever it may have meant to others, it was of course, ultimately, the Emperor's Own Hound. Besides serving as one of Julian's most loyal companions, alongside Sallustius and others of the Emperor's valued company, his four-footed friend that emanated from the Land of the Rising Sun was also invaluable to the Roman King of Kings in other respects: the Caesar found it was eminently pettable, and increasingly realised that stroking its head was moreover de-stressing, and he came to like to rest his own head else lean back against the seated animal when pondering difficulties or staring into oblivion. Whenever he could not see a way out of a predicament, he would bury his head in its deep, soft and luxurious fur, which, though he did not know it for a fact, possessed certain magical healing qualities that renewed hope and fortitude. He had come to recognise the divine creature as a gift from the Gods sent to guard him and his heathen empire, which of course it was. He therefore liked to throw his arms around the animal for no reason at all and whisper gentle, heart-felt words of endearment to it -- quite as all humans who have ever possessed animal friends have been prone to do; and the absurd, affectionate animal would lick him in return. When devising new strategems against christianism or writing pamphlets exposing the Great Falsehood, he would take his dear animal's counsel: it would bark approvingly whenever it agreed or was convinced on any point, which turned out to be every single time, and the Emperor graciously accepted that this input was not a fawning compliment to him but mere impartiality to his meritorious ideas. The animal never left His Imperial Male Magnificence's company: at times of worship it would stand by quietly, looking acceptably piously-inclined towards the Olympic Gods, and Julian would allow it to take part in offerings after libation (but soon learned to make sure it did not get too drunk, as liquor made its behaviour with regard to furniture -- already sparse in Julian's imperial household -- worse than that of a Vandal). Though the Emperor worked through many nights -- and it would stay up with him during his contemplations or else howl at the moon during Julian's nightly worship which became background hum to him -- there were times his Supreme Earthly Imperial Perfection would go to sleep. On such occasions he would suffer the Hound to leap onto the bedding and curl up with its head on the great and warm Imperial Heart, there falling asleep to the gentle thud-thudding. This, unfortunately, became a habit for the dog and it could not be weaned from it thereafter and was inclined to repeat the behaviour even on occasions when the Emperor would have preferred not to have the weight of another heavy blanket bearing down on him, such as during summer. The often Double, and at times as many as Nine, Tails of the Hound were found wrapped around the Emperor's arm in the mornings. Whether he had done so himself or whether the Hound had done this for/to him, is something the Emperor has not remarked on to his confidantes. There has been conjecture that certain other of the Hound's magical abilities that have come down to us in legend are owing to its special ancestry, which is perhaps partly Sacred Fox according to Eastern heathen tradition such as Shinto, and which is mayhap somewhat Wolf according to western myth, or perhaps a combination of both. There are accounts of further strange behaviour from the creature on full-moon nights, often attributed in the west to its suspected Lupine ancestry, but which will not be dwelt on here, lest this more serious report of the verifiable and commonly-attributed features of the famous animal become diluted by imaginative tall-tales. [6] As regards the blessed heathen creature's names and epithets, which are many and often of foreign tongue, numerous derive originally from the terms of endearment lavished upon the creature by the Emperor and his men. The primary word used as a name of address for the animal by the Emperor Himself was "Nakama", especially when he stroked its ears. It is not a Latin or Greek word, and it remains a cause of wonderment to historians as to how the Emperor should be familiar with Japanese when he was not known for it. Nowadays, people are more commonly acquainted with the fact that the exquisite word means "comrade", but the Emperor learning of this word (and apparently its meaning too) has baffled not a few. Some have said that Athena had introduced him to the creature by this name, but that does not explain how he used other Japanese words and taught his men to use the same in reference to his Hound: next to the simple descriptive of Karafuto-Ken was also to be heard "Senyuu" (comrade in arms) and "Tomo" (pal, mate, friend), "Shinseki" (kin, relative), "Shinrui" (family), all of which were imitatively used by the Roman soldiers of the well-loved Emperor in addressing the Dog, especially after it had shown its mettle during battle. The Emperor also referred to the Shinto beast affectionately as "Doushi" (kindred spirit) and "Douhai" (the Emperor's equal as his canine equivalent), and even as his "Chitsuzuki" (blood relation), though "[dear] Nakama" was his most favoured name for his four-legged friend. It is thought that this wealth of knowledge of appropriate Japanese nouns must have emanated from the Hound teaching Julian the equivalent in Japanese human speech for words the Man wished to address his Animal friend by. Although a very learned and skilled man, Julian is not generally known to have understood the speech of dogs, whereas the creature itself was famous for knowing the speech of other animals, which may have included that of men also. Epithets in the common tongue of the Empire referred to the animal as the Emperor's Dog, the Emperor's Quadruped Comrade, the Canine Thunder (on account of its bark), Julian's Animal Friend, the Imperial Hellenistic Mascot, the Fierce Heathen, Shinto Hound, the Blessed Dog, the Kamis' Gift, Athena's Favoured One and Divine-Armour-Bearing-Fierce-Warrior-Hound. Further studies conducted by historians regarding the animal have come up with many more names that were in use, some of which are surprising. [7] Upon the Emperor's ascendance to his ancestral Gods at Olympos, it is said that his Dog leapt for a last time onto his chest as he was laid to rest. And curled up once more, as was the animal's wont, it too fell into a final sleep. The mound raised over the Man is said to include his dear friend the Dog, as per these versions of the event. The Roman account has it residing with the once-human hero in the afterlife, and continuing its usual behaviour as on earth, though some other tales describe the animal as resting in its own lands of the heavenly Kami and returning whenever the Emperor has need for it or is glad of its company in general, including such as when heathen humans on this side of life look to the example of the Great Heathen Emperor in their need. At such moments, the Dog returns to His side -- swimming across from Japan at his call, and racing with thunderous footfalls over the Tundra or the Steppes and then the plains -- to thus be seen in vision reunited with Julian, donning once more its Divine Armour and with its loud bark echoing triumphantly. Others, to the east, tell of the dog barking once, loudly, during the final farewell rite of its divinely-blessed human friend and to have swiftly been caught up in a whirling wind by Aeolus thereafter, who, by request of Athena and owing to her promise to the Kami on termination of the Dog's services, returned it to the land of its ancestors and its own Shinto Gods and religion: they say it passed into the realm of the Kami where, being given a hero's farewell by Shinto priests and enshrined in a native Temple, it dwells happily with them once more. This last version traces future generations of the breed back to one of these early famous examples of the heathen Shinto animal. In any case, all huskies the world over have come to be regarded as related in some fashion to the Hound of the Imperial Heathen. And in like manner to how Elephants in far-off India are regarded as sacred and therefore become understandably conflated with their Gods Ganapati, the Son of Uma-Shiva, and Airavatam, the sacred mount of Indra, or how the Monkeys of the Hindoos are venerated as lingering members of the divine "Vanara Sena" of their God Rama, or all Hindoo cows are regarded as the true embodiments of the Hindoos' Gods -- in such manner, all Huskies have become synonymous with Julian's Shinto Hound, to the point where they have come to be seen (and see themselves) as identical or interchangeable with the original. In essence, all huskies and Karafuto-Ken in particular, can be viewed as the Emperor's Own Vaahanam. This has predictably become a matter of prodigious pride for various huskies in our own era. Therefore, those in our universe who felt that the Emperor was missing a certain something were perceptive, though he did not lack a vaahanam in other universes. In all those, of course, he was always accompanied by Man's Best Friend. While Hindoos tend to threaten ominously that this is a Vedic reference to the Wife, the best friend of humanity in general was rather meant: the dog. And so ends the tale of a Man and His Dog -- or rather, the tale of The Hellenistic Emperor and his Shinto Hound -- as it has come down through the ages and tradition. [1] en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sakhalin_Husky Quote:The Sakhalin Husky, also known as the Karafuto-Ken (樺太犬?), is a breed of dog used as a sled dog. (Note: the documentary/movie Nankyoku Monogatari by Koreyoshi Kurahara on the JP Antarctica expedition about the JP sledge dogs, had music composed by the Greek Vangelis. Album: "Antarctica".) [2] telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/japan/3701839/Morie-Sawataishi-Saviour-of-Japans-akita-Samurai-dog.html Quote:Morie Sawataishi: Saviour of Japan's akita Samurai dog [3] The most familiar and generally reliable account of the fated meeting, describes the pup -- having just been released from Athena's sacred magic pouch into the dazzling light of day -- as coming upon the Flawless Man when the latter had dismounted to drink from a sacred stream. It was then that it barked at him, as if in some recognition that neither the creature nor the human could completely fathom. The Prince was caught unawares by its pleasing furry attractiveness, which apparently left an impression on his mind: gazing at it, an understandably deep love for the dear animal took root. Though his own heart was instantly pierced (and from which he never recovered) by its incomprehensible and unreachable beauty of being -- as all those who ever fell under the spell of love for animals or trees or the sky or mountains would know -- the baby animal itself beheld him without knowing what to make of him initially: it was only some time thereafter that it would learn of the young prince's pristine character. And although, during this initial acquaintance, the creature gave chase to the imperial horse in playful fashion before it got itself lost, the young prince would for some days continue to dream about the fuzzy creature that seemed outlandish yet good-natured, and he became increasingly determined to track it down and befriend it, in order to permanently attach the creature to himself just as he had become attached to it. Neither he nor his men were successful in this from their own end, not then knowing the exact habits of the Shinto Husky variety. Unbeknownst to the Heathen Champion, it had not lost track of him, however, and was in fact following him all this while, having picked up his scent. It kept its distance and observed him from behind trees here and underneath rocks there, and noticed the Blessed Man's interactions with his soldiers and ordinary citizens. The kindness and friendly, approachable character of the man towards his subjects and his men ultimately convinced the Karafuto-Ken that this was a human worth befriending and following about. It then revealed itself once more to the Prince at last, this time in the presence of his soldiery, and allowed the young man to pat its head, though it would not suffer a noose: and as it followed him willingly immediately thereafter, he saw no need to tie it to his person. [4] Some eye-witnesses remembered the event as the Emperor having to actively intervene to calm the creature down after its subduing the lethal enemy: Julian had to resort to throwing his cloak about the wild creature, since it could not hear his gentle voice trying to calm it down over the din that had by now resumed. With the cloak about it and it therefore unable to see much, he was able to approach it and make himself heard. It is said that at this point the Dog became tranquil and its usual self once more, and returned to his side thereafter. [5] The Emperor's biographers quote him as instructing his men to give up trying to convince it to join them: "It's not a hunting dog." [6] Dubious sources have fancifully described that on full-moon nights the Emperor's Karafuto-Ken would change shape so that it was suddenly the human head of a lady that was resting on the Emperor's heart. One such 'source' describes how the Emperor himself woke up on an occasion to find a beautiful dark-haired maiden where his Dog had been, with her arm wrapped around his. And, thinking it but a dream and confused by the dark mass of fragrant hair spread about his dizzy vision, the Emperor drifted back to sleep and awoke in the morning proper, to realise it was but his trusted four-footed comrade all along and dismissed the rest as imaginings. This dream he was alleged to have shared once, much later on and in passing, with some friends, from which the unlikely sources claim to trace their accounts to. These stories were no doubt of later origin, probably confusing the alleged lupine ancestry popularly attributed to the Dog by chroniclers (huskies do look a little like wolves to populations unfamiliar with huskies, such as the Romans were) with the fact that the trusted Comrade of the Emperor became associated with the Fox-Lady of Shinto and Korean Shamanism on account of its many tails. In brief: in these eastern religions, some ladies are not women but are actually Foxes (Fox Kamis) with many tails, which are specifically considered to be magical creatures that can transform, and moreover have a tendency to transform into humans, surmised to be one of the forms natural to them. There have been many cases documented in both ancient Japan and Korea (and China) of such creatures marrying humans, and this persists in modern storytelling such as a famous Korean romantic-comedy series from the last decade. In some ancient cases reported, the marriage was a happy one, in other cases the creature was duplicitous or some other calamity befell to separate the lovers. It is unlikely, however, that the august personage of the eternally-praiseworthy Emperor had ended up with this particular kind of Dog, despite many a description and early carving of his famed canine companion treating of its multiple tails. Furthermore, the Emperor is specifically documented by his famous biographers as not noticing women -- beautiful or otherwise -- at that time, being far too busy then with matters closer (if not to heart, then) to hand, such as the disease of christianism. It is probable that the Emperor's keen but common affection for his faithful, furry, four-footed little friend and most especially its reciprocal doting on the Emperor has further contributed to this mythmaking: Karafuto-Ken are, after all, notoriously attached to their humans (as indeed are many dogs to this day). Another influential factor may have been that no one seems to have specifically recorded the gender of the Dog, which presumably left the matter open-ended for speculation and unnecessary mythologising. The more commonly heard variant of this myth, and which has more insistent and more ancient supporters, is that the Dog (or part Wolf) was not itself a woman, but that a fair Greek maiden was to have been caught into sharing the Karafuto-Ken's body for a time: out of desperation, newly-converted christians given to still dabbling in occult magic -- of the harmful kind that had specifically been discouraged by heathen Roman emperors and Hellenistic society -- were to have contrived a curse on the Emperor to never be married or have any progeny, by stipulating that his choice should ever be withheld from him. But taking counsel with Athena, Goddess Vesta (Hestia) herself was to have safely hidden the young maiden in Julian's Nakama temporarily, until such a time as christianism's imminent defeat, so that the creature could protect her from within itself even as it protected him from without. These accounts, otherwise similar in describing the maiden as occasionally manifesting in the Emperor's chamber on full-moon nights, date the appearance of the maiden to around the time when the Emperor was decisively defeating the Cretinous disease once and for all, around his 33rd year. The curse was broken in conventional manner when the Emperor decided to marry the heathen lady, and so the Faithful Dog could finally return to being the sole inhabitant of its form. (The Queen was to have had an abiding affection for the Dog, though shy by nature of any wild and large creature with sharp teeth, and would place its food on its platter from behind the Emperor and would gladly watch it eat heartily; and she dared to pet it only whenever it was occupied hugging the Emperor, though it would in turn try to immediately return the affection by nudging against her with its adorable head.) Whatever the tale of the Greek maiden's origins and background and the manner of the Emperor's meeting with her, it remains a fact that in parallel universes, she married him and the Emperor's line therefore has been divinely favoured to be markedly prolific and more enduring than that of others, including more so than even that of the Genghis Khan in ours, though the Emperor managed this throughout by adhering to the Roman religious tradition concerning marriage (i.e. monogamy). And thus there are many Hellenes scattered throughout the modern all-heathen Hellenistic Republic that trace back to their far-famed Heroic heathen forebear and continue to share in his faultless qualities. [7] Libanios for instance documents the then-popular use of "Many-tailed one", "Single-tailed one", "Colour-changing Wolf", "Divine Snow Dog", "Four-footed one Born in the Distant Realm of the Sun Goddess". ______________________________________________________________ INSERT: Man, it's so easy to invent a story on the spot centred around a smattering of history, using factual events and persons to concoct something that didn't happen and to then keep developing it further. "Pseudo-history". The emperor would have disapproved. Ugh fine, to be emphatic then: Disclaimer - - the above is [obviously] a work of (terribly bad) fiction - "animal fan fiction" :woohoo: - using some factual background such as of Japanese huskies and their traits, the Emperor being historical, and of course the tales of Fox-ladies being true to eastern heathen narratives (and mixed in with features of an older story of my own concerning wolves mistaken for dogs and which turn human overnight, although I reversed the genders in this case: I used to like inventing odd 'fairy tales' when I was a kid, what can I say. Plus I like wolves. Oh and the bit on the Imperial Queen being shy of large animals and putting food on the Dog's plate by standing behind the Emperor is based on my Grandmother and Grandfather and a fierce dog the latter had rescued and re-habilitated. The speaking with animals thing is also inspired by my Grandfather, though he spoke in his human tongue to various animals - including very wild and ferocious ones at their fiercest of moments - and always had a great and unreal heathen power of influence over them. An "animal-whisperer" of superhuman ability, though perhaps he wasn't quite human.) All (other) resemblance in the fictional parts to any real historical person or animal, or to any Divinity or historical event is unintended and is coincidental. And absolutely no offence was meant to persons or animals divine. (Why do I feel I have to apologise for everything? :gah - there is no evidence that the Emperor had a vaahanam, let alone that this was a dog or of husky breed in particular. Personally, I have long felt that the Emperor deserves a Vaahanam, since it would cement his status as a Heathen Hero, and the idea is just appealing for some reason. A Japanese Samurai Dog sounds a great choice in my opinion, but I would equally cheer for a wolf (so closely associated with both Rome and the birthplace of the Emperor in Anatolia where the Troy of his Roman ancestors was situated). The story was inspired by my remembering how Emperor Julian himself coined and popularised the phrase "There is only one Julian" to seriously tick off the christians who were peddling the poisonous absurd nonsense of "There is only one gawd". One imagines the Emperor must have been grinning as he came up with it, and in any case, it remains hysterically funny no matter how often I revisit the famous phrase. (Christian 'historians' are still pretty peeved about it: it exposes the utter triviality of their absurd cherished belief.) Anyway, because it seemed such a feat to be so funny that your humour still appeals (to those with a sense of humour) even ~1700 years after your passing, I thought that a Hero so all-round awesome deserved a vaahanam. And then I got carried away and tied all kinds of random things in there, because honestly, it's so easy to do. [color="#0000FF"]Again: the only things remotely relevant to the thread are the sections in quoteblocks. (The bit on the Fox-spirits is actually part of native heathen JP and KR tradition, and I think CN tradition too.)[/color] Vegetarian Discussion - Husky - 09-06-2014 Recommended viewing: Wildest India: a documentary series by Animal Planet, of 5 episodes at ~50 min each. Shows some of the major natural, wild spaces left in India, and how the rare creatures and plants have survived there, with especial and respectful coverage of how there is a special bond and balance between these and the native heathens, due to the *heathens* revering them as Gods or part of the divine world. The first episode already introduces India as "90% Hindus" and the series throughout continues to discuss and give examples of how it is these native heathens - and their innate Hindoo-derived/-based reverence for and close relationship to their natural habitat and nature in general - that has allowed India's native wilderness to survive for so long, despite the numerous setbacks it has faced. The conclusions one unavoidably comes to at the end of the series is that the further the natives depart from their traditions, the more progressive and urbanised they become, the more certain that the delicate balances between humanity and wildlife in India will become unhinged and Indian wildlife will suffer for it (as it has already started to). The episodes are on: 1. the Thar Desert in the far north-west of Bharatam, 2. the Ganga throughout its course from source to end in the Sagar on the W Bengal side, 3. the Indian part of the Himalayan range from west-to-east, 4. the Western Ghats mountain range in India's south and how it's a main source of life on both sides of the range, 5. both the tropical jungles and the dwindling heathen religio-culture of the as-yet-unsaved heathens of India's 7 northeastern states. Three particular aspects of the series stand out: - the respectful coverage of heathenism in India. Coverage actually verges on admiration. - the continuous tying back of both preservation and conservation of the native wildlife to the heathenism of the native heathens of India: i.e. the series stresses repeatedly that it is the still-heathens' heathenism that results in their reverence for the world they live in and its animals and that this is what has caused them to actively persevere in maintaining it, against heavy odds - the practically exclusive focus on heathens instead of on converts to christoislam. Even in the episode on northeastern states, even in the section on Nagas, featured are only those native communities still following their ancestral (i.e. heathen) religion. E.g. only those Nagas still unconverted and therefore still worshipping their Gods (and their worship of their Gods - in plural - is specifically mentioned by the narrator, as is their "shamanistic" practices like oracling based on the guts of sacrifical birds. <- What the Greeks and Romans like even Philosopher Emperor Marcus Aurelius did, as also what native Korean heathens still do). The following are some of the elements from each of the episodes. Best not to read the following if there's any chance to watch the series instead. 1. Thar Desert: A desert that's orders of magnitude more life-infested than the Sahara owing to the mutual relationship between humans and their animal relatives. Examples given are Langur monkeys and how the Hindoos' reverence of Hanuman has allowed these monkeys to survive during the dry periods. Even when the city monkeys' antics in stealing food from humans during hard, dry times becomes too much, Hindoos only bring in the Monkey Catcher, who then releases the monkeys back into their ancestral Aravalli Hills, where they initially look bemused. The Hanuman Langur species also gets a look, and the narrator mentions how this species of primate is also understandably held in high regard by Hindoos as having an even more direct kinship with Hanuman. The mutual relationship between rare carion fowl vultures and Hindoos, since the remains of naturally-deceased cows are left for these rare vultures to feed on who in turn ensure that the cadavers don't rot and result in disease. The Rat temple in Rajasthan, where the Hindoos worship the rats as their brethren, the children of Karni Mata. The episode mentions that despite rats being frequently being bearers of fatal epidemics, no outbreak ever occurred at the temple and surroundings. Another notable example is the fact that the region's Indian lion population fell down to 20 (owing to hunting for sport under christoislamic rule), but a Hindoo community that worships Narasimha gave up their usual livelihood to ensure the Indian lions' survival and so now the numbers are up to 500. And more examples. Beautiful large Indian antelope (black buck or something) and other native animals, including I think tigers and definitely an Indian bear type (sloth bear?), the Marwari horses that are unique for their stamina as they don't require so much water and have an intimate relationship with their human communities as do the camels, but also the wild desert wolf of this Indian landscape which are not-so-shaggy owing to the temperature. These are considered sacred too by the Hindoos there and who therefore tend not to kill them even in extreme situations. The ridiculously cute cubs howling adorably together is a moment that will require lots of rewind-and-replay. The Hindoo Bishnoi community (who are famously devoted to Mahavishnu) are interviewed and their readiness to die in hundreds to protect the sacred, life-nurturing Khej(a)ri trees is remembered. Their protection of all wildlife in their area is recognised as having been the profound impetus behind the conservation and continued preservation of their region's indigenous animals and plants. The cycle is completed when the blessed monsoon arrives and the animals, humans and all life receive sufficient waters again to tide them over for the next year. 2. Ganga: Charts the course of the life-giving Ganga from its origins in the Himalayas as Bhagirathi to its tributaries running into the ocean, and all the wildlife and humanity living along its entire course, including how the Hindoo reverence for the river as their Goddess Gangaa Amman results in their reverence for its wildlife. The reason for the river's ability to create prime fertile land is covered - rich minerals brought down by the river eroding the Himalayas - and Ganga's unique ability among rivers to self-purify and prevent itself from becoming putrid is also discussed: even diseased bodies sent on their way in this river do not result in disease outbreaks. Animal wildlife starting at the source of the river in the Himalayas to its emptying in the river gets a look. Including migrating cranes that return to a village in north India every year, all the way from Russia and China and *over* the Himalayas tallest peaks: although the cranes are endangered in other places, once they reach their stay in the north Indian village they are fed generously by the Hindoos there who revere and admire them. Also given some screentime are the cuddly Indian otters, who are uniquely social among the world's otters, including how some Hindoo fishermen have bonded with otter families for generations and use them in their fishing livelihood and in return feed them generously. Other sea creatures are also shown to be religiously fed by devout Hindoos. Endangered Gharial crocodilians now slowly increasing their numbers in Bengali regions, unique rare Indian dolphins, rare birds that fish in the river and more animals living on or in the Ganga get coverage. The uniquely man-eating Bengal tigers of W Bengal living in the mangroves growing at Gangaa's edge are seen, and it's mentioned how they're nevertheless still respected by the Hindus. The Hindoo Bengali village with 1 cobra for every 2 people, and where the snake makes up a daily part of everyone's life and is revered not feared: the Hindoos worship their serpentine Amman MAnasA devI at the local temple whose poojari is also the one who carefully coaxes snakes out of people's homes. He alone is allowed to do this, since he will not hurt them. (Note for those Hindoos who may not otherwise have the chance to see this: there is a close-up darshanam of Manasa Devi during aarti.) There's also a brief coverage of an island called Ganga-Sagar in W Bengal - where the Ganga runs into the Sagar - where a huge number of Hindoos come together in the maha mela there on Makara Sankranti to celebrate. 3. Himalayan regions: The entire Indian area at the Himalayas range from W to E (note, only the Indian parts are covered in the documentary). Coverage starts in a not so populated area. Extremely sure-and-fast-footed, wild, shaggy Himalayan mountain goats and their traditional predator - the equally beautiful and magnificent Snow Leopard with its padded feet and bushy rounded tail (IIRC, from another doco, Snow Leopards are extremely endangered in islamic TSP and sightings had become rare there, but they are fortunately more populous in Hindoo India) - are seen living at high Himalayan altitudes of about 5.5 kms high. Bird species with special adaptations for flying at high altitudes during their migratory treck past the highest Himalayan peaks are seen soaring. Then more human-inhabitable parts are shown, beginning at a very northern portion in Ladakh, where the Tibetan refugees have been settled, including visuals of Tibetan Buddhist monks going about their daily religious routines and their stupas. The Tibetan Buddhist laity of dispersed nomadic animal shepherds have very shaggy goats and yak etc and their daily lives with these, in the extremely cold and somewhat arid Himalayan region are shown. In contrast to the more arid-looking Ladakhi area where the Tibetan Buddhist nomadic shepherds reside, we get to see the extremely lush area around Nanda Devi peak and/or the Manas. Somewhere here, we get to look on the beautiful hapless Lesser Panda of India (name derived from "Ponya" as the Nepalese Hindoos call them): like China's Giant Panda, Red Pandas can't even properly digest cellulose so they are restricted to eating the low-energy source that's Bamboo almost all day long, and the females are fertile for only a 24 hour window in a year (as opposed to the IIRC 3-day window of Giant Panda of China). Glad these playful animals managed to survive at all in the face of more adaptable competitors and humanity. The Indian Rhinoceros - unique both as the heaviest and as more social than the other species of Rhinos in the world - and other giant fauna are covered (IIRC migrating elephants are seen in this and/or the Gangaa episode, and the remaining two episodes). Glimpses of wolves of the shaggier kind that I'm more used to seeing, tigers, and the predominantly "vegetarian" Indian black bear and its eating habits. And the all-important northern monsoon due to the climate made possible by the sacred Himalayan range and its importance to life in India is once more stressed. (The mountain range of Himalayas is further specifically mentioned as sacred to the Hindoos, as mountains and hills tend to be. BTW, mountains and hills are also famously sacred to Shintos, who worship them.) 4. Western Ghats (the Sahyadris): Footage of the immense and rare wildlife possible on the western side of the Sahyadri mountains, and discussion of the relationship between the heathens and the wildlife they revere. Humans are covered too. From the Toda - who worship their life-giving and nurturing Buffalo as children of their Buffalo Amman (c.f. the Rajasthani Hindoos who worship the rats at their rat temple as children of their Karni Mata Amman) and mention of the Toda milkman having the sacred task of poojari, to more mainstream Hindoo communities are seen (including some Hulivesha/pulivesham dancing). Hindoos dipping and splashing about happily in temple waters are shown, brahmanas doing their daily watery routines too. We just miss out on seeing a close up of a temple moolamoorti. Note that *repeatedly*, only the still-heathen, unconverted among the populations living in the region are shown and are held up as living in harmony with their nature owing to their reverence for it as a living manifestation of the Gods and the sacred world of the Gods. (Christoislamics in Kerala naturally get no coverage.) Elephants, rare primates and special giant squirrels living in the Ghats, as well as unique lizards are caught on camera. Native snakes scaring these primates, other mammals and lizards. The snake-eating super-venomous King cobra in action, and a wrestling match that looks like a dance between two King cobras to settle a territorial dispute. There's a segment on modern-day Hindoo cobra catchers/relocators, invited to a Hindoo home where the inhabitants were living outside because a cobra had moved in. We see the cobra catchers doing their best to carefully coax a cobra out of its comfortable space in the human home, trying to get it into a sack and then releasing it further away from the village, closer to the sorts of wild spaces it is used to. Once again, just like the W Bengal section of the Gangaa episode, mention is made here too, that - despite snakes being feared and hated in a lot of other countries of the world - the Hindoos of India revere it (snakes being divine and all) and hence tend not to kill it. The ancient formation of the Ghats in the pre-Asian Indian landmass - back when India was still moving toward Asia from Africa - is discussed, and so are the southern monsoon rains as a product of the front moving across the Arabian Sea and then colliding with the high peaks of the western Ghats (the highest being Aanamudi - elephant head) and resulting in a cycle of rainfall on the more tropical, western side. (Indra vs Vritra happens in the south too.) And although the high range of the Ghats prevent the eastern side from getting this rainfall*, some of the collected waters however start trickling from these high mountainous areas forming into streams then rivers that then run down the slopes on the eastern side down through the lands there: the main rivers in southern India tend to run down from the Sahyadris/Western Ghats and therefore run in west-to-east direction to empty in the Bay of Bengal. * Owing to the lower rainfall on the eastern side of the Ghats, the type of forests on this side are large leafy vegetation that drop their leaves when water availability is low. Sadly, in the last 100 years or so, the increased land-grab for tea farming on the rich fertile slopes of the Western Ghats has been replacing its tropical forests and the strains this places on the wildlife there gets mention too (though no mention is made of the christian conspiracy against the Hindoo Western Ghats): the tigers held sacred and imitated in the hulivesham dancing, the native bear (?), and the migrating wild elephants and giant variety of bovine that are now forced to pass through human-managed lands and can come into strife with them. The wild or free giant bovine roaming about are shown as entering a mutually beneficial relationship with the human tea farmers (those shown in the episode are still marked with Hindu marks): since the Hindus don't use pesticides, they happily eat the weeds. IIRC the episode ends again with a summary of how the Hindoos revere this their natural habitat and how this is even seen in their tiger (huli-vesham) dancing. 5. The tropical forests of the north-eastern states of India: This episode covers the 7 sister states of northeast India at the south of the Himalayas (though I think only Assam, Arunachal Pradesh, Meghalaya and Nagaland get specific mention, not sure I heard any section focus on Tripura, Manipur and Mizoram). It speaks of how this region is so fertile, and so tropical-rainforest-green owing to the large amounts of near-perennial rainfall. Coverage is given not only to beautiful and colourful native birds, the intriguing "spectacled monkey", as well as a rare species of *ape* with a distinctive call heard throughout the region - called <something> gibbon, the intimidating Indian python, Indian sloth bear(?), elephants migrating through Assam and/or Arunachal Pradesh, and other animal wildlife is shown, and rare plant life too: trees that formed natural bridges over gorges that humans then further cemented as bridges. But the episode also covers *heathen* communities living in these regions and their traditions related to the wildlife: how they hunt, what animals are in their diet, etc. The narrator mentioned how the native people - often not seen by western populations - are steeped in their (heathen) traditions. Brief shots of some people in Meghalaya playing about in the water owing to plentiful rainfall and mention is made of their traditions of using the natural bounties in their habitat. Highlighted in some more detail are first the traditions of a specific heathen community in Arunachal Pradesh (can't remember the name, starts with an A) such as their weddings, ritualistic sacrifice of chickens etc (not easy to watch), and mentions of their "shamanistic" rituals.** Next is rare footage of the few surviving, still-heathen Naga communities (i.e. non christianised) and how they have replaced their older practice of head-hunting of neighbouring communities with games mimicking this, and how their men hunting large boar as a meal for their village ends with them leaving a part of the boar as a sacrifice to their Gods (note the plural: these are not christian Nagas) and IIRC mention is made of their "shamanistic practices".** I think one community was mentioned as hunting primate. Another still-heathen community in some northeastern state is captured on film doing ritual dances, dressed in the plumage and what looks like the bill of beautiful rare birds unique to the region and which birds they revere (can't really remember the name of it, but it could be called horn billed something or other). Nowadays, because the bird is rare, this heathen community only use naturally-shed feathers of the bird and artifical imitations in place of the bill for their special dress for dancing, rather than trying to acquire these from the (living) rare birds themselves. ** Either the heathen Nagas that were shown, or the particular heathen Arunachal Pradeshi community that was mentioned, or else the heathens seen dancing in bird plumage, are shown as carrying out oracling practices using the entrails of birds. Exactly like Korean heathens do today, and ancient Greeks and Romans. There's also a section following migrating wild elephants. They're seen splashing about with water and mud, and we follow the group's trek, their long-distance infra-sound calls to keep in contact with elephants 100 kms away, and their discovery by domesticated elephants ridden by mahouts. This section may be in Assam or Arunachal Pradesh I think. Anyway, the mahouts regularly look out for young wild elephants to capture and domesticate. Turns out it's not as bad as it sounds nor as bad as it would were this some other country: the elephant may be primarily taken to help with ploughing/agriculture, but there is a much closer relationship than that between domesticated animals and humans elsewhere: each mahout takes care of his own elephant like a dear family member (bathing it, feeding it well and petting it) and shares a special bond with it, the elephant grows to love its human back so that - despite being released each evening to join up with wild elephant herds - the elephant returns back in the morning to be with its human again. This post was on - Recommended viewing: Wildest India, a documentary series by Animal Planet, of 5 episodes at ~50 min each: The Thar Desert, Ganga, Himalaya, Sahyadris/Western Ghats, Tropics of Northeast states Shows some of the major natural, wild spaces left in India, and how the rare creatures and plants have survived there, with especial and respectful coverage of how there is a special bond and balance between these and the native heathens, due to the *heathens* revering them as Gods or part of the divine world. Three particular aspects of the series stand out: - the respectful coverage of heathenism in India. Coverage actually verges on admiration. - the continuous tying back of both preservation and conservation of the native wildlife to the heathenism of the native heathens of India: i.e. the series stresses repeatedly that it is the still-heathens' heathenism that results in their reverence for the world they live in and its animals and that this is what has caused them to actively persevere in maintaining it, against heavy odds - the practically exclusive focus on heathens instead of on converts to christoislam. Even in the episode on northeastern states, even in the section on Nagas, featured are only those native communities still following their ancestral (i.e. heathen) religion. Vegetarian Discussion - Husky - 12-24-2014 3 items on animals. Not on vegetarianism. 1. theguardian.com/environment/2014/dec/14/earth-faces-sixth-great-extinction-with-41-of-amphibians-set-to-go-the-way-of-the-dodo Quote:Earth faces sixth ââ¬Ëgreat extinctionââ¬â¢ with 41% of amphibians set to go the way of the dodo But - like with the fate of Hindus - whatever happens, happens: depends on what people (choose to) do about it all. Besides, humans have been "like this onlee" ever since the monotheisms: other species dying out because of monotheistic carelessness and callousness is inevitable. They'll always feel bad after the fact and bewail it all: humans are good at regretting in retrospect instead of taking timely corrective measures collectively. It is a long day away when animals will be allowed to have self-determination and will be left alone to be - free from human interference. Heathen humans aren't even allowed self-determination and to be left alone yet. 2. independent.co.uk/environment/nature/the-truth-about-sharks-far-from-being-killing-machines-they-have-personalities-best-friends-and-an-exceptional-capacity-for-learning-9887898.html Quote:forget everything you thought you knew about this solitary, "mindless killing machine". Sharks have individual personalities. They socialise, choose best friends and create social networks of unusual complexity. They can be trained by humans to complete simple tasks, much more quickly than rabbits or cats, for instance, and retain the knowledge for much longer. Sharks also teach each other new tricks: how to find food, identify predators and charm mates. Like sea turtles, some travel huge distances to return to their own birthplace, again and again, to give birth themselves. Most don't need to swim continuously to survive. And rather than being near-blind and reliant on smell, which is the general perception, they in fact have advanced sight. They feel pain. And the boldest sharks face a greater risk of dying before adulthood.Lots of species of shark on the brink of extinction apparently. (Reminds me of yet another thing in McMoneagle [sp?]) 3. au.ibtimes.com/articles/574359/20141128/dog-understand-human-language-tone-uk-research.htm Quote:Dogs Understand Human Language And Tone: UK Research Vegetarian Discussion - Husky - 01-01-2015 Not about vegetarianism. This thread has long been hijacked into becoming an Animals thread. I think the last posts on the actual topic of vegetarianism are at the bottom of the previous page. On the heels of VaikuNTha Ekaadashi, to commemorate him as the dviShapha - as he is called in the relevant sahasranaamam - and as a celebration of the deep, outwardly 'interspecies'-looking, friendship between Sri Rama and Anjaneya (though Sri Rama merely gave the appearance of being human and Anjaneya similarly merely looked like a mortal monkey), here mentioning two documentaries by the American Public Broadcasting Station on this greater theme: 1. "Nature: Odd Animal Couples" About interspecies friendship between different non-human animals. The documentary is not about humans and animals being friends, but about cases where one non-human animal is friends with another non-human animal of a different species. And these friendships can be seen to be very fast and deep friendships indeed. Like the goat who looked after his blind horse pal until the end and then slowly died from the loss. (Within the past two years, saw the news advertising for a video of a cat who similarly served as the 'eyes' of its blind dog friend.) Another example given in this documentary is the curious case of a monogamous couple consisting of a male goose and female giant tortoise (don't ask - I can only speculate but can't begin to understand how they reached an understanding, but both seemed to have done just that). The documentary admits that until recently (IIRC 2013 or so), western researchers never used the word "friendship" for animals, though an article by a western biologist reposted at the Rajeev2004 blog some years back showed that the Japanese - with their Shinto-infused mentality - had naturally already understood that relationships in the animal world included friendships and a sense of family too, just like they realised the individualism of individual animals. The native Americans - who are a wellspring of profound insights and concepts - have the profound notion of "blood brothers" which they applied not just to worthy European settlers, but which had its significant foundation in human native Americans' interaction with the animals in their world. They viewed various animals as their brothers and friends, and individual animals as blood brothers, such as in cases where one had saved a person's life and so the person recognised this by sealing it with a brotherhood pact. In fact, the profound native American notion of "blood brothers" is a concept that's very applicable to interspecies animal friendships too, IMO. Human native Americans perceived the animals of their homeland to be part of their world - a very real, always tangible and usually central part; not abstract, nor peripheral. It was not just the animals either, but trees and rocks and waters that formed the larger family of relationships/the living world as living family for native Americans. A lot like Shintos and even to some extent like Hindoos, though the deep view of brotherhood with animals and the living world is not as common in Hindu views when compared to how central such great perceptions were for native Americans and Shintos. (Though unmissable examples exist in Hindu religion too, like Rama+kin's relation to the Vanaras and Jaambavaan.) <snip> 2. The 2nd PBS documentary is "Nature: Meet the Coywolf" About the emergence in N America of a recent hybrid of western Coyote and eastern Wolf, with locus of origin (for the hybrid) in Canada's Algonquin forests. Their appearance seems to have been indirectly caused by human-attempted extinction of the wolves of N America's E Coast. The hybrid is surprisingly successful in areas of human congestion including major cities now, and the Coywolf's spread is anticipated in America's famous eastern citadels like New York and Chicago, where Coyote are already seen trying to make a life for themselves. There are scenes of adult coywolves/wolves/coyotes and tiny pups (!), the sight of which was unbearable: such overwhelming beauty that I think I felt my heart crumble slowly to dust within me. [Oh what a short time that organ lasted; it only ever comes into existence at moments such as this and only to be decimated thereupon.] But like that dead British poet once observed, "a thing of beauty is a joy forever". And an abiding joy this vision granted. Despite trying to be serious, had to watch some segments numerous times, because I kept concentrating on the visuals of the magnificent animal - it must be sacred, it is so unspeakably beautiful and defies comprehension - that I kept missing the import of what the voiceover was trying to say. Remember that N American hunter who was sent to kill a cattle-raiding wolf in the Mexican part of America? You know, the hunter who - because the air back then was still thick with the heathenism of the native Americans, and which heathenism therefore infused into him as it did into others - gradually was overcome with admiration and love for his incomprehensible Prey, and was converted into pleading for the conservation of Wolves and the wilderness instead? (Almost too late, btw: as irreparable damage had been done to wolves [and some other species] in N America; and they're still much disliked and often shot when they venture into America from the Canadian wilds. This is mirrored in how the hunter's wolf died of a broken heart shortly after the human captured it: the hunter had killed its wife/mate for life, and it was therefore but a matter of time for the he-wolf to die too. <- The documentary makes it clear that the wolf is thought to have died because of the loss of its dear wife.) Speaking of wolves and native Americans and their heathenism, the "totem animal" concept is another profound view of native American heathenism. E Asians also have totem animals. <snip> This post was to recommend two documentaries produced by the American "PBS" channel: 1. "Nature: Odd Animal Couples" About interspecies friendship between different non-human animals. 2. "Nature: Meet the Coywolf" Complete with scenes featuring baby wolves/coyotes/coywolves. So incomprehensible is the animal's magnificent beauty and the adorableness of its pups, that you will melt, and only a puddle that was once you will be left. (^ The image is made by a southern Hindoo following the tradition that Vishnu=Rama and all that that entails. So, *obviously*, such images are specifically not for anyone who holds - or ever held - any other opinions on the matter, or their descendants.) Vegetarian Discussion - Husky - 01-02-2015 Related to previous. Tracked down the following doco on utoob - specifically the UK version of the documentary with narration by David Attenborough: [quote name='Husky' date='01 January 2015 - 07:31 PM' timestamp='1420120426' post='117495']Remember that N American hunter who was sent to kill a cattle-raiding wolf in the Mexican part of America? You know, the hunter who - because the air back then was still thick with the heathenism of the native Americans, and which heathenism therefore infused into him as it did into others - gradually was overcome with admiration and love for his incomprehensible Prey, and was converted into pleading for the conservation of Wolves and the wilderness instead? (Almost too late, btw: as irreparable damage had been done to wolves [and some other species] in N America; and they're still much disliked and often shot when they venture into America from the Canadian wilds. This is mirrored in how the hunter's wolf died of a broken heart shortly after the human captured it: the hunter had killed its wife/mate for life, and it was therefore but a matter of time for the he-wolf to die too. <- The documentary makes it clear that the wolf is thought to have died because of the loss of its dear wife.) [/quote] Quote:youtube.com/watch?v=CmkF5iUR3SY Every Hindoo should watch it, IMO. There's even a tiny bit that brings up the native American mindset w.r.t love for the American wilderness. As anticipated, this is unavoidable and is the underpinning of all love for the nature of the Americas. Meanwhile, as mentioned in the documentary, the wolves in the Canadian hunter's ancestral homeland (UK) had at the time of Lobo already been extincted for some time. <- Because there was no native American heathenism hanging in the air in Europe, only christendom. Which last is all that exists in the atmosphere of the Americas today. The largescale extermination by the christo-European settlers of the wolves (and buffalo, etc) of America - hounding these to practical extinction for the reason that they simply existed - is quite identical to the ongoing christoislamic genocide of heathens. The west speaks regretfully about the wolves of N America, but no such documentary about the native American human heathens who were similarly targeted for extermination. Yet they and their heathenism are what's behind both the notion of the US republic and American conservationism. Maybe, in the spirit of the Coywolves now slowly reclaiming their wolf-ancestors' territory in N America's east coast, is also intermingled the spirit of the many extincted native American human heathens - and it is the both of them combined who are reclaiming their ancestral lands now. * Linked to the BBC version rather than US/PBS release of this documentary, since I prefer UK to US when it comes to docos (this one's co-produced by both BBC and PBS, which generally means that UK made it with significant American funding), and prefer British to US voices and voiceovers. Narration is moreover by Attenborough, plus the BBC Natural History unit (like one other BBC unit) are the only good aspects of BBC and are not related to the BBC's "News" and other psy-ops units. However, for those who want to try the American PBS version of this documentary, a predictably heathen - Asatru - woman has uploaded that too to youtube. NW European heathens admired the animals of their world, to the point that they would also understandably name their kids after bears and wolves etc to infuse their children with the animals' good qualities. The christoclass virus is in all ways regrettable. A source of countless tears, with no end yet in sight. Quote:youtube.com/watch?v=T7q5UK022Is Both videos of the documentary are HD @ 720p I think. [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CmkF5iUR3SY[/media] Lobo: The wolf that changed America - BBC Natural World documentary :dakishimetai: Vegetarian Discussion - Husky - 01-06-2015 Main page of kaumudi.com as it was on "January 06, Tuesday 2015" before the following image and description there got changed: Quote:A contingent of 4-legged kShatriyas. Even all the Hindoos who are yet to acquire divyachakShus to see the Gods can still see them already: embodied in our natural world, such as in animals. The koorma moving about in water gracefully, as if it's flying, looks sacred like Vishnu whom it embodies. The Dog is similarly the embodiment of both the Vedam (see Dattatreya's 4 dogs who are the Chaturvedam) and Dharma (MBh). A wolf pack very much reminds one of Uma-Shiva with their children and the Shiva-ganas. Monkeys are the clear continuation of the Vanara Sena of Devas, and embodiments of Hanuman etc. The bears are a continuation of Jambavaan and his family. Each eagle is Garudan/the Vedam and each other bird of prey is related to Vainateya and Jataayu and his brother. All the birds and all the snakes and other reptiles and water animals are likewise the Gods to heathens. The Hindoos see their Gods everywhere, in the sacred living world of their homeland. Just like Hindoo humans look so kallai and endearing and reminiscent of the Hindoo Gods for their pristine qualities of character, so too, the animals and plants, waters, mountains/all nature of the Hindoos' world appear to the Hindoo to be beautiful and the Gods incarnate, like all of Bhu and the Brahmaandam. The Hindoo sees itself enveloped by auspicious indicators, reminders and the near-tangible presence of the Gods. The native Americans and Shintos etc were correct in recognising the very real divinity of the natural world. Heathens always appreciated animals, even when they took the persistence of animals' presence for granted. (It is nice to catch glimpses of ancient heathen Greco-Romans' musings on animals too.) The death of wildlife is a slow death of the human heathen as well. Their fates appear to be tied, as they seem to slowly extinct together and from the same (christoislamicly-induced) causes. Vegetarian Discussion - Husky - 01-15-2015 This one is a 4-legged heathen from Japan. Also note the ear movements* (and tail): Indescribably, incomparably, irresistibly beautiful - like only the Gods can be. Resistance Is Futile: so may as well watch on infinite repeat. * The two Ashwins reside in its ears, like Vayu Bhagavaan resides in its nose/snout/passage for its breath of life, and Surya and Chandra reside in its two eyes, Brihaspati/Vaak/etc on its tongue, Indran in its strong shoulders/limbs. (And Hanuman in its tail etc.) In short and clearly, all the Hindoo Gods - not to mention the Shinto Kami - reside in it and are embodied in it. It's like the Kamadhenu. They all are. Vegetarian Discussion - Husky - 01-17-2015 ^ Animated GIF of irresistible four-legged one ^ News seen yesterday. There's a pic of a cat at the link, which may perhaps be the cat of the news report: msn.com/en-us/news/world/homeless-russian-cat-saves-abandoned-baby-boy/ar-AA8dbF7 Quote:Homeless Russian cat 'saves' abandoned baby boy Animals have quite the ...intuition about fellow creatures. Several cats and dogs have been in the news notifying their human family member - by barking at a part of the torso or otherwise - to have themselves checked out at the doctors, only to find they had a tumor in their chest or some such. Several animals are good at sniffing out cancers and are being trained to catch this. Even when they adopt animals of other species as their children, they always know that these are other species. E.g. IIRC: a chicken who, in a psych test for animals, had been provided a duck egg amongst its brood, raised the duckling with its chicks. The psychologists were expecting to find that the mother couldn't tell the difference. But for the duckling, when the time was right, the mother hen took it to water and pushed it in as part of making it learn what a duck needed to know: paddling about in water. Apparently the psychologists found it to be a humbling experience: it wasn't as stupid as they had credited it with. But animals generally aren't. I don't understand where many (western) humans get the notion that animals are so very different from us. Humans are an animal. They are specifically mammals and a type of primate. Over-developed sense of imagination, but not really special in any useful sense. Only "special" in looking at fellow animals as if these are aliens and concluding -by default- that these must be very different, only to find - upon repeated, arduous tasks of closer investigation/research - that they're not really *that* different after all, which are conclusions that any sensible person could have reached by just thinking on the matter. And did people really need a research paper to come out about how fish do suffer pain "after all" (they also feel anxiety/fear, BTW, as per a documentary that I watched about sharks and whales hunting schools of fish), in order to have reached what was the straightforward conclusion that they would feel pain, and that they don't enjoy having their heads severed or being deprived of oxygen. Or live lobsters or eels being tossed straight into boiling oil or water for cooking - I don't think they want to be burned alive. If people are going to eat them fine - I'm not PETA, and was never one to get between one animal (in this case humans) and its food source. But kill them quickly first instead of burning them alive. Given the choice, wouldn't most humans rather be killed quickly - like shot in the brain - instead of being burnt alive without even the smoke to asphyxiate them first? Else why pretend to feel sympathy for all those "witches" burnt at the stake? Or Giordano Bruno. Humans don't need to go out of the way to be cruel. And without even thinking about it, that's what humans do. That phrase - being "humane" - as supposedly the overarching standard of empathy and values is actually doublespeak and means nothing. Humans barely render it to their own species. They don't generally even think of other species' unnecessary suffering at their hands. People might not be able to change their diets - humans are animals after all, and food is the primary pursuit of Life - but how one goes about it is something that can be altered by anyone who cares even an iota. Hindoos don't require the lecture. Whether they be vegetarian or non-vegetarian, they always have a regard for life. I've noticed this in Daoists too, who are often keenly aware, and you can see it in the well-reasoned explanation at ysee.gr for why the present Hellenes there do not choose to sacrifice animals, even though they could have. It is a very heathen consideration. It is also seen in many western atheists (many of whom have been turning vegetarian by choice). And what's nice is that heathens in general always try to be more and more considerate about their footprint on fellow creatures and nature in general. Heathens of course have no power over the world at large, as it's christoislamic-dominated - where heathens are at the bottom of the pecking order in the casteist christoislamic human hierarchy and are regularly cannibalised by christoislamics. So they can't do much for fellow creatures and nature. Heathens can only control their own actions.* From experience, lots of western non-religious people take inspiration from heathens' views on animals. Unlike PETA, heathens tend not to be militant on vegetarianism, so heathens can plead for respecting other life without insisting everyone become vegetarian or something. Even western people who despise PETA's evangelical (in the general sense) terrorism, listen to heathens on the subject matter of animals. * IIRC one documentary showed how remote Hindoo Vanavasis who used to hunt endangered animals for IIRC their plumage were informed that these were animals that were highly endangered. And the Vanavasis - feeling such matters keenly, being heathen - immediately gave up hunting these species and made imitative plumage to use in their decoration instead. Fellow-feeling is a natural attribute, that derives from having an innate sense of being part of the world (instead of the biblical imposition of imagining being "in charge" of it), and doesn't require "education"; so christoislamism has had to actively remove it to make people behave differently and view the natural world differently. The news was: msn.com/en-us/news/world/homeless-russian-cat-saves-abandoned-baby-boy/ar-AA8dbF7 Homeless Russian cat 'saves' abandoned baby boy Agence France-Presse (AFP) Vegetarian Discussion - Husky - 05-13-2015 Post 1/2 A Rajeev Srinivasa(n) tweet at his blog: Quote:rajeev srinivasan @RajeevSrinivasa Very right. It is specifically the Indian lion. Even though the BBC tried to dub them "Asian lions" - typical - the specialist they interviewed particularly referred to them as "Indian lions". Which especially holds now that the genetics results were out and the Indian lion was found not to be related directly to the ME/Iranian lions, which is a separate branch out of Africa. bbc.co.uk/nature/26736688 [quote name='Husky' date='01 June 2014 - 11:42 PM' timestamp='1401645875' post='117244'] Quote:2 April 2014 Last updated at 01:22[/quote] Note that although the Indian lion is called P Leo Persica, the lions that used to live in Iran and Middle-East are clearly described as 1. having been a separate and much later migration (5000 years ago) out of Africa 2. having gone extinct Specifically, the extinct Iranian/ME lions are not related to the migration that produced the Indian lion: Indian lions had already migrated to India from Africa end Pleistocene. <- That is the reason why the news was so interesting in the BBC. Wackypedia is still spreading the deprecated assumption - from before the genetics study on lion populations, seen in the BBC link above, came out - that the Indian lion is also the same kind that occurred in Iran and Israel etc. But as the genetics study found to its suprise, the Indian lion is distinct from the Iranian/ME lions (which are extinct; there remains only the Indian lion and 2 types of African lions). en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asiatic_lion Quote:The Asiatic lion (Panthera leo persica), also known as the Indian lion or Persian lion,[3] is a lion subspecies that exists as a single population in India's Gujarat state. It is listed as Endangered by IUCN due its small population size.[1] Since 2010, the lion population in the Gir Forest National Park has steadily increased.[4] In the following article, aliens hope to use Indian lions to bring back their oryan dreams of the Barbary lion (aliens can't let species that they've extincted remain extinct, but want to create zoos of resurrected animals too) But even in the following, can see that Indian lions are distinct from Iranian lions. And though Indian lions were closely related to that other kind, the Barbary lions of North Africa, these last are extinct too and are still not the same as either Iranian or Indian lions. (However, scientists wish to "resurrect" the Barbary. Sounds unnatural. Else we should resurrect australopithecus and other early hominids too if we ever can. Same thing.) techtimes.com/articles/5207/20140404/genetics-unveil-history-of-lions-resurrection-of-extinct-barbary-lion-subspecies-possible-study.htm Quote:"International bodies currently recognize only two lion conservation units: African and Asian lions. The data clearly show that Asian lions are nested within the diversity present in Central, West and North Africa," the study says. "Of particular concern are the central African and western African populations, which may be close to extinction, with estimates of 800 lions in West Africa and 900 lions in Central Africa. The close phylogenetic relationships among Barbary, Iranian, and Indian lion populations are noteworthy given their considerable geographical separation. The restoration of the extinct North African Barbary lion has attracted the attention of conservationists both inside and outside North Africa." The above still distinguishes between Indian lions from the extinct Iranian lions (besides the also extinct Barbary lions). A couple of years before the 2014 lions genetics study, the following article came out. It too went with the old defunct assumption that the Indian lion is the one that lived in Iran and ME. Back then, Gujarat refused to resettle some of the lions that Hindoos - and only Hindoos (one community specifically) - had brought back from the brink of extinction, even in Madhya Pradesh where the Hindoo lion was also historically found: thenational.ae/news/world/south-asia/asiatic-lions-rescued-from-near-extinction-now-need-a-new-home thenational.ae/news/world/south-asia/asiatic-lions-rescued-from-near-extinction-now-need-a-new-home Quote:Asiatic lions, rescued from near extinction, now need a new home(There's also a page 2.) Anyway, resettling some of the Hindoo lions in Madhya Pradesh - historically also their territory - is a good idea. Modi's govt should do it. But Hindoos should refuse to donate Hindoo lions or their genetic material to resurrect the Barbary (I think they found that they could reconstruct it from the 2 sets of African lions and the Indian lion). But extincting the Barbary is the West and ME's own christoislamic fault. The west is always famous for destroying things - not just that of others, but including their own heathenism - and then poaching on living heathens' stuff. Also, repeating (because it is true): the Indian lion is the Hindoo lion onlee. And it has been nourished back to life by the determined efforts of HindOOs onlee: [quote name='Husky' date='06 September 2014 - 06:26 PM' timestamp='1410007699' post='117339'] Recommended viewing: Wildest India: a documentary series by Animal Planet, of 5 episodes at ~50 min each. [...] (Episode) 1. Thar Desert: [...] Another notable example is the fact that the region's Indian lion population fell down to 20 (owing to hunting for sport under christoislamic rule), but a Hindoo community that worships Narasimha gave up their usual livelihood to ensure the Indian lions' survival and so now the numbers are up to 500. [/quote] Hindoo lion hates christoislamania, who are its enemies. Like Hindoo humans, the Hindoo lions have only suffered from christoislamania and the west aka genocide central. Vegetarian Discussion - Husky - 05-13-2015 Post 2/2 Rajeev Srinivasa(n)'s tweet had linked to: twitter.com/anandibenpatel/status/597410695701868544 Quote:Anandiben PatelVerified account It's not an "all-Indian" effect. It is exclusively a HindOO effect, as seen in the previous post/as seen in the Thar episode of the Wildest India documentary. It is ethnic HindOO Narasimha bhaktas who had consciously sacrificed their usual way of life specifically in order to bring back the Indian lions when the numbers were down to a mere 20, who started the conservation of the Hindoo lion. That would also explain why traditional Hindoos hold bhaktas second only to their Gods. Vegetarian Discussion - Husky - 05-17-2015 1. On a comment at: indiafacts.co.in/butchers-teach-the-values-of-satya-and-ahimsa/ Quote: Jishnu Radha Rajan ââ¬Â¢ 11 days ago While it's true that humans - at least our hominid species - are known as Super Predators*, technically modern humans aren't carnivores. We are scavengers, hence omnivores, like dogs (wolves) and bears. Our scavenging nature (humans being omnivores) made us more adaptable to different environments. But being omnivores also means humans *can* live -as in, naturally survive- on a vegetarian diet, just like some Indian bears are predominantly "vegetarian" as described by natural historians/biologists (these bears may also eat insects for extra protein, so they aren't actually vegetarian in a strict sense). While humans and dogs can be vegetarian - because they are omnivores - carnivores, like cats (which are true carnivores) should not be made vegetarian: they can easily die on a vegetarian diet that does not rigorously supplement them with animal products like taurine. Cats can go blind and die if made vegetarian without carefully monitoring that an unnatural vegetarian diet is giving them everything they need in the right amounts. Yet despite the fact that cats are carnivores (must have meat in their diets), some western vegan and vegetarian PETA types want to make not just their pet dogs vegetarian but also their pet cats. It's part of their monotheistic tendency to force their choice/their very sudden conversion to vegetarianism onto others - no longer just onto other humans in far away animal-friendly heathen climes either, but now onto carnivorous animals too, even their own pets (whom they supposedly love: but only once it has been forced into vegetarianism too, apparently). A link with some supporting info about making a pet dog vegetarian vs forcing a pet cat to be vegetarian: theguardian.com/environment/blog/2010/may/24/vegetarianism-pets-national-vegetarian-week-cats-dogs 2. indiafacts.co.in/why-are-hindus-offended-by-m-f-hussains-art/ Quote:Jishnu Radha Rajan 12 days ago(Aside: The above forgot to note that polar bear males counter-intuitively kill off their own offspring too - without knowing that it's their own kids. Polar bear males mate for a period then leave a pregnant female, which raises the kids solo and has to keep them away from the constant threat of adult male polar bears, any of whom - including the offspring's biological father too - can kill the cubs. Outside the mating period, an adult male polar bear can also attack and kill a pregnant adult female polar bear, including the one it impregnated.) indiafacts.co.in/why-are-hindus-offended-by-m-f-hussains-art/ Quote:"when Western women vociferously asserted their sexuality and demanded equal rights to have sex without marriage being a precondition" Uh, the above seems to have missed out another long-standing (and still not defunct) biological/anthropologically-ascribed reasoning for the evolution of marriage: as a means for the male to acquire right of (often/usually exclusive) sexual access to the female(s). So a component of that is as an attempt to limit sexual access to the same female(s) by other males. Oh, and it's "in return for resources", which the female presumably wants for herself and her future brood. Don't Indian men know that feminist women keep hitting other wo/men over the head with the above? It is immediately apparent in a certain common type of polygyny like islamic harems and mormon christianism. ADDED: Here: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marriage Quote:Right of sexual access And also: www.bradley.edu/dotAsset/165805.pdf Sexual Strategies Theory: An evolutionary perspective on human mating Though an old paper from 1993, it lists various reasonings for human mating and marriage, besides the above ones on rights of sexual access and paternity certainty. In Roman society, marriage was a [literal] contract, hence - like all Roman contracts, including between male business partners or army officers - marriage too was sealed with a kiss (it's where the "now you may kiss the bride" in western weddings comes from, though it wasn't originally meant in any romantic sense). Roman men limited sexual access to their wife (though early Roman women already had less freedom than say the Indian women at that time: could not attend some public entertainments for instance, and university and voting were gradually opened up to them, see McCabe, before christianism then appeared and set Roman women and all converted women back forever). Roman marriages meant the wife's children were legitimate in the eyes of Roman inheritance laws - not peculiar to Rome - but which was the practical purpose of marriage among Romans: just as some earlier Greek communities were predominantly homosexual but had a wife restricted to the house for producing offspring*, some Roman men were homosexual individuals and had male lovers, but would still have a wife to reproduce with. [* There was of course a time in antiquity when the powers that be in a part of Greek society - these powers being male and gay - famously contemplated genociding all women if only they could find some other means of securing progeny. <- Just so that people know that LGBT types don't guarantee to be quite so peaceful when they cease to be a minority - nor that they were always on the receiving end of persecution - and which tendencies are actually also still hinted at in modern gay literature (fiction/fantasy) which often envisions a world without women, and where all men are -of course- gay. And vice-versa seen in lesbian feminist literature.] Compared to Rome, marital monogamy rather than sexual monogamy was more common in the very ancient Greece of the epic era, and in China (where marital monogamy is on the increase again among very rich and powerful males, as per the news): men will marry one woman (and her sexual access is limited thereby, but children by the wife have slightly more priority/legitimacy than others) but the man may sleep with other women, or even keep other women to sleep with: - Ancient Greeks could keep female slaves captured during war for this - which the Greeks felt was more ethical than murdering the women, although the (often already married) women's existing kids were at times murdered and her husband and brothers and relatives usually were too. - Chinese men kept a spouse and concubines, regarded as 2nd to nth wife. No genetic monogamy. Some modern Indics [males, as becomes obvious] of the "Indic Civilisation" kind (who are outspoken about not being heathen, btw) declare loudly that ancient Indians also did marital monogamy not sexual monogamy, and argue that such is therefore also the culture that modern Indians should continue to have: where men will marry one woman, and sexual access to her is restricted by marriage, whereas he may visit prostitutes. (<- Transferring direct statements of such people.) Genetic monogamy seems to be implied in such a scenario: as less rights are accorded to the other female mates, than in China and ancient Greece. However, India has all kinds of marriages: polygamies (polygynandry, polyandry and polygyny), and not just some forms of monogamies, but also a combination of social-marital-sexual-and-genetic monogamy (of which Sri Rama is often held up as the example by Hindoos, perhaps because monogamy is not expected of kShatriya kings since they have to ensure succession). In most of these cases - even in polygynandry - there are restrictions on sexual access, but in several of these cases can see that it is not merely incumbent on one gender. [Contrastive with the above is christowestern society which - with the exception of polygyny Mormon types - claims to be of the most restricted/exclusive version of monogamy, but is not only often a serial monogamy nowadays, but was always hypocritical as to its alleged exclusive monogamy, and broke each of these. A recent infamous case is that of an outspoken anti-gay US politician who - upon reaching middle-age/midlife crisis - sneakily went behind his wife's back and donated his sperm to many lesbian couples in a distant western country - where lesbians were allowed to have children and which women were waiting for sperm to get pregnant - all so that he could have many more children than the many he already had spawned with his wife: he felt compelled by his smattering of biology to spread his genes - of the christist, hypocrite and philanderer variety - on into as many future offspring as possible. When his wife found out about his infidelity - he broke the genetic monogamy component of the all-exclusive monogamy proclaimed by western christians but which they barely ever keep to, whereas many heathens do to this day - the wife didn't just feel cheated, she was furious.] Anyway, while basic biology motivates human mating and hence initially motivated human mating systems, there is also a social and behavioural component to marriage that's unique to humans, as testified by the construct of legitimacy and inheritance laws etc around such matters. That is, marriage has moved past biological factors into anthropology territory. Since humans have the marriage construct - which is more sociological than biological - the reasons given from anthropology for the origins of marriage may be more applicable. Dr Roberts below is an anthropologist: Extracted from Quote:(Narrator is AR)(Seen from this point of view, more symbiotic than parasitic.) Can also compare the complex marriage/social contract systems regulating what is official (e.g. recognised by law or society) among modern humans - since even before the neolithic - with how far they are removed from some biological motivations to mate in certain other species: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monogamous_pairing_in_animals Quote:From a new biological point of view, monogamy could result from mate guarding and is engaged as a result of sexual conflict.[7](A form of mate guarding is still seen in humans, as explained earlier above - marriage as a means to restrict sexual access to the mate, enforced by society, e.g. obvious in Victorian England - but not quite the at times more literal ways in which mate guarding happens among some other animal species.) Also: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_conflict Fortunately humans don't seem to as frequently exhibit the more extreme of the tendencies described in en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_conflict#Sexual_conflict_before_and_during_mating whereas these are biological features of some species. While others are behavioural features*, though too general across the species to be dubbed the local "culture" of a subgroup of the species (which contrasts with more sadistically violent tendencies in one killer whale group vs another killer whale group that doesn't engage in the same 'pastime' at all, and which behaviour of the first is therefore regarded as "culture" by biologists). * E.g. as a general behavioural feature of a species, dolphins and some large sea mammals gangrape (combined with often murdering) females for "sport": they prevent the female that's being force-mated by the gang from coming up for air. Such matings by dolphins are not always aimed at producing viable offspring. (Dolphins were known early on to enjoy mating, i.e. not always aiming at reproduction.) POST EDITED: for more links, less "IIRC". Vegetarian Discussion - Husky - 05-21-2015 Related to the above. And back on topic. There's a problem with the following. indiafacts.co.in/butchers-teach-the-values-of-satya-and-ahimsa/ Quote: Jishnu Radha Rajan ââ¬Â¢ 16 days ago Again, the disclaimer: - I'm not and never was a missionary vegetarian. Unlike some others: like PETA types, or Buddhism. E.g. Buddhism, upon converting Japan's monarchy, issued laws to force vegetarianism onto a majority Shinto population, which is a majority non-vegetarian population. Ironically, Buddhism was not originally vegetarian, and there's yet been no foolproof evidence cited by Buddhists themselves - not contradicted by other Buddhists - that Buddha was a vegetarian either. - Human animals, being omnivores, should only become vegetarian by choice*, not by others' insistence or emotional blackmail. * I make an exception for those claiming heathen continuity whose ancestors/lineage is vegetarian: these should remain vegetarian too else they have forsaken tradition, i.e. are unheathen by their break with an important aspect of their direct ancestors. Pretending to channel/reconstruct the life of ancient non-veg ancestors is just an excuse to still claim they are heathen. So, onto the problem I have with the above: it confuses shaastras with evolution to make an argument for why eating "lower" animals > "higher" animals. Personally, I have No problem with those who are ancestrally cannibals/headhunting cannibals eating their enemies (some cannibal Polynesians ate missionaries out of revenge - like I would ever object). If human is part of your diet and you have killed human enemies, may as well not waste the protein. And of course: killing humans as a source of food is better than christoislamania killing them because they wouldn't convert. Cannibalism still exists in PNG or areas of Polynesia, as seen in news from some years back where a German/western tourist was thought by authorities to have ended up in unsaved natives' cannibal stew. On the matter of cannibalism vs eating other animals. From a most basic POV, people eating another human should not invoke any more sensitivity than people eating another animal: fear/anxiety (and at least eventually pain) were one of the first conscious experiences to evolve, in mobile animals at least. They seem to have evolved for self-preservation: more likely to move away from a predator if you had a nasty feeling (evolutionary fear) about its appearance or if you experienced unpleasant sensations if it had started eating your hind leg. Many schools of fish are known to experience intense anxiety/fear - and in panic move 'erratically' but just as their predator intends - as seen in documentaries on humpback whales. Earlier, these whales' hunting methods were thought to be rather non-intimidating: they just swallowed the huge schools of fish whole. But with better sensory equipment, it became known that when hunting these whales emit sounds we can't hear with our normal ear, and which sounds send their prey into frenzies of fear. <- IIRC Biologists/natural historians used *that* word. More recently, major scientists have come out in support of fish' sensory perceptions of pain too, arguing that humans must not discriminate against fish (as we have so long done) by pretending they are neutral to their fate at predators' hands (including us), but that we must start including fish in our concerns for the welfare of other species. I don't think these scientists were trying to make the world vegetarian or denouncing fishing, I think they wanted to raise awareness of fish as being highly sensitive to difficult experiences and that we should not treat them cruelly just because we imagine they can take it (whereas many humans won't exercise the same levels of cruelty on many mammals). So fish feel fear, anxiety, pain. Even scientists today have not merely confirmed this but have argued that humans must have greater regard based on this supposed 'revelation'. Our ancient ancestors were some type of fish creatures also, like that of other vertebrates. So these difficult sensations - the most difficult sensations in life - are shared by a great many species. And fear is seen in invertebrates too (some spiders play dead and these and cockroaches can panic in fear when I catch them in order to throw them out). This is why I would as soon start eating another human as to consciously eat some other species of animal (though Radha argued from some "dharma" POV, which was never my argument, unless she's wishing to equate it to some universal sense of sympathetic 'righteous' behaviour, closer to the reasoning of that Hellene - was it Seneca?* - rather than apparently shastraic orderings. *Yes, here.) And it is precisely for considerations of freedom from pain, anxiety and fear - and above all: the right to be left alone to live one's life to natural completion, as argued by some ancient Hellenes - that anyone who is a vegetarian should be vegetarian. No other reason is lasting or meaningful. And in this context, bringing in what is dharma as per the shaastras or not, or what the scale of right or wrong is in eating various species as per the shaastras is beyond the topic, though Radha specifically wanted to tie her wishes onto dharma. If people want to argue for vegetarianism they can only ever do it sensibly from the grounds of fellow feeling and an unwillingness to inflict injury or to take away from another's chance at a complete life (as far as human abstaining can secure this). But it is exactly from the grounds of fellow feeling that we cannot condemn other heathens for continuing to eat non-vegetarian foods or to continue to sacrifice these foods to their Gods first: because man is an animal. And vegetarianism can never be guaranteed to protect other animals if it is not a personal, conscious choice. There is a remarkable heathen insight by the Hellenes at ysee.gr, who think that continuing animal sacrifices in the west - where there is a clinical mass-breeding and mass-slaughtering of animals as commodities - can't be justified in their continuation of their heathenism in the modern time: ysee.gr/index-eng.php?type=english&f=faq#36 Quote:Do you perform blood sacrifices?Very well argued/explained, like true heathens. C.f. in India/Nepal, heathens from villages still raise their own animals for food (a.o.t. the invisible mechanical processing of animals far away from the public, like the nazi slaughtering of the Jews in 'gas chambers' - which nazis argued were supposedly more civilised but which are actually the extreme of cruelty and inhumanity and show the callousness of nazis to human life). Non-vegetarian Hindoo heathens always offer all their food to the Gods (though not at those temples where the deity accepts only vegetarian offerings). So how is this unHindu, if such Hindus are going to eat meat anyway? Even the much-maligned Gadhimai (sp?) festival in Nepal where an article mentioned some 2 lakhs of animals are sacrificed once in 5 years and presumably distributed among many partakers, is IIRC to be eaten by these numerous Hindoos thereafter. Non-vegetarian humans would have eaten this large a number of animals anyway, as I doubt the animals' bodies would be left to go to waste: heathens are not wasteful. So what is wrong in first offering it to the Gods? [quote name='Bodhi' date='06 October 2006 - 03:56 AM' timestamp='1160086738' post='58621'] So, whats the point? Point is, if one is passionate about certain ethical code or ideology (here vegetarian ethics), and wants to see that this ideology progresses in the world, it is far from sufficient to just raise one's children in those ethics. The way influences are there in our world, next generations of veggie parents may take to the conflicting ideology. It may be fine too for some parents. But, at the same time, one has all the right to do all one can, to explain why one is following the ideology one is following. And I see nothing wrong in influencing and encouraging others in joining in - through ethical, legal, acceptable, moral means of course. This is different from "conversion" as you have put it, since there is no involvement of falsehood, coercion, force, ambition, organized-church-like body or commercial interests. This is just making a thought popular. Also you should observe, non-vegetarianism is NOT an ideology, while vegetarianism actually is, from times forgotten! So you may say vegetarianism is NOT conflicting or offending any particular ideology. It is only negating the habits and practices. Situation is somewhat similar to the difference between Buddhist monks preaching religion to no-religion people 2500 years ago Vs Christian missionaries converting people of other faiths in year 2006. I hope I was able to convey what I think. [/quote](Actually, in all but 3 respects - one of which needn't count - 'Jishnu' eerily comes across like the above person, though not in the above's argument of missionising vegetarianism, obviously. In any case, the Indra/Vishnu namesake certainly sounds like the comments by one 'shaastra sevaka' once seen at VV.) Anyway: 1. I personally don't agree with the above insistence on missionising vegetarianism - which is shown (in the above) to derive from feeling "passionate" about this "ideology (vegetarian ethics)" = zeal -> peddling -> missionising. It's one thing to present the reasoning for vegetarianism and another to enforce it*, nothing will be gained by enforcing it (and emotional/moral blackmail - seen in the extreme case with PETA types - is enforcing IMO). But once the [sole] argument for vegetarianism is presented - and most are already aware today - should stop there. The only worthwhile argument is that of the Hellene Seneca et al: can leave it at explaining their well-articulated view of animals deserving to live their lives unencumbered by anxiety, fear, pain, premature death/loss caused by humans; that we need not add to the burdens of other animals, especially since -in the 1st world- man's relationship with animals has become unequal in the extreme. More than ^that^ we cannot (as in: ought not) do to other non-vegetarian heathens, as these are not cruel - who harbour neither a hate nor a callousness/indifference to animals - but nevertheless have their own diet which they have naturally evolved over a great many generations. It may be that some day they too will "self-sanskritize" - as anti-Hindoos have dubbed this process - like many other Hindoos have done. And the fact that others have done it by choice is the only thing that matters, rather than external wrangling. * Doubly wrong to enforce it in another country, on a population of a distinct heathenism, as seen in how a converted-Buddhist rule famously enforced vegetarianism on a mostly-Shinto population in Japan, by decreeing that the nation should henceforth become vegetarian, all in order to uphold the alien Bauddha dharma and its sudden (but not originally) precept of vegetarianism. 2. Also disagree with the statement "Buddhist monks preaching religion to no-religion people 2500 years ago Vs Christian missionaries converting people of other faiths in year 2006." [Reminiscent of that so-called "OBC" Parishad in Maharashtra doing "Ghar Wapsi" of Hindus into Buddhism, end 2014, which declared that 'India used to be a Buddhist country' (in what parallel universe was that?) and that the recently-invented "OBCs" were originally Buddhist, and that there was never such a thing as Hinduism=Vedic religion=Sanatana Dharma=Hindoo heathenism. Many ethnically-Indian Buddhists pretend that Indians had no religion before Buddhism (the same is attempted by Buddhism now regarding Tibetan Bon by denying that Bon is pre-Buddhist, heathen and distinct from Buddhism, and by launching the "Bon is a spin-off from Buddhism" missionary lie. Buddhists had even tried to pretend that Taoism derived from Buddhism in order to claim Buddhism's right to Chinese and E Asian populations. Except that the proof is of course the other way. Even the lately invented Zen Buddhism is admitted by scholars to be mostly Taoism, hijacked by Buddhism and with a Buddhist veneer added to it and of course stripped of the Taoist Gods.) Quite like what christianism keeps saying about how there is no Hindu religion and doesn't recognise the pre-christian African religions either. It is part of the modus operandi of missionary religions and their peddlers: to pretend that the target population had nothing before and that therefore no replacement occurs, to make it come across as more legitimate. That is, missionary religions attempt to deny heathenisms to project heathens (or at least the masses of heathen laity) as "empty slates", open season for any missionary religion to claim. They thereby justify this to themselves as a 'missionary right'.] BTW, India was not without religion 2500 years ago - not an empty vessel waiting for Buddhism to enlighten it. Every pocket was long heathen of the Vedic religion before Buddhism appeared on the scene.* So it was very much conversion, what Buddhism did. But I forgot, some people insist there's no such thing as "Hindu" (Hindoo heathenism, i.e. a religio) - and no such thing as a Hindoo laity therefore - unless Buddhism and Jainism etc are all equally a part of it/the same. *E.g. Tai-Ahom - also fellow heathens and who had included the Hindoo pantheon of Gods into theirs - arrived much later into the Hindu subcontinent. Vegetarian Discussion - Husky - 05-27-2015 1. During the dark ages of christoislamic terrorism's grip on India, the Hindoo Indian Rhinoceros was also hunted intensively by the christoislamics=demons, until its population numbers reduced. (C.f how christoislam had reduced the Hindoo lions to a measly 20, and how the christo European infestation in India under the colonial terror had brought about the utter extinction of our longtime compatriots, the Hindoo cheetahs, see a few posts back.) en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_rhinoceros Quote:The Indian rhinoceros (Rhinoceros unicornis), also called the greater one-horned rhinoceros and Indian one-horned rhinoceros, belongs to the family Rhinocerotidae. Listed as a vulnerable species, the large mammal is primarily found in India's Assam, West Bengal and in protected areas in the Terai of Nepal, where populations are confined to the riverine grasslands in the foothills of the Himalayas.[2] More proof that christoislam has only ever genocided the natives of the Hindoo subcontinent, and why all christoislam should be kicked out of the subcontinent and forever banned from entering again. "Indian" christoislamics are the same demons as their fellow monotheistically-infected from Europe and ME to C Asia. Note how - nothing good ever came from christoislam, only genocide. Christoislam is the *definition* of extinction/genocide. Especially of other creatures: of people/other animals of heathen climes. - it was christoislamic hunting that had brought this and many other Hindoo animal species to (the brink of) extinction - whereas, once again, it is only the return of the heathen, native=non-christoislamic rule that allowed the endangered Hindoo animals to grow in numbers again - christianism is now pretending to reinvent itself as environmentally-friendly with the hope of in future laughably projecting itself as having always been so. <- More proof that christians are compulsive liars inspired by the compulsive lying of their mindvirus ideology/jeebusism, the greatest parasite of them all. 2. Turns out the "Manul" is also an ethnic Hindoo. core: Not only is it spread in Mongolia and Tibet, it occurs in parts of northern India along the Himalayas (and not just Ladakh). And just a few years back, its presence in Nepal was accidentally detected too: IIRC the Nepalese govt conservationists had set up cameras to monitor the Hindoo Snow Leopard, and one day, all of a sudden, they found a recording containing sighting of this mammal and had to seek confirmation that it was who they thought it was: the Manul. So it is an ethnic Hindoo of both Nepal and India, not just a Bonpo-Shamanist heathen of Mongolia-Tibet. Woohoo. Note how it actually has round pupils, unlike its more common - and often more recent - relatives. Wacky's entry is telling for two totally different reasons: Quote:Distribution and habitat First, wacky peculiarly mentions Kashmir - a part of India - among a list of what are exclusively countries. While the map at wacky of the habitat range/distribution of the creature clearly show it residing along the Indian foothills of the Himalayas - e.g. it is well attested in Ladakh of the Jammu & Kashmir state of India - wackypedia still refused to mention the word India (and even pretend Kashmir is it's own thing and that the Manul is only found in that part of Hindoo India), whereas Tibet is not mentioned separately but brushed off as "western China". More proof of wacky being a stronghold of christoislamism and christoislamic dawaganda. This is a better link for the creature's distribution. I wonder if ancient Hindoo literature mentions this mammal and what its native name might be. The following sermon is not necessary for Hindoos. But modern English-speaking elite types in India apparently started acquiring owls as a fad after Harry Potter suddenly made these popular, so that rich Indian parents were buying rare owls as birthday presents for their spoiled little HP-obsessed children (who'll probably grow up into the next selfish Deepika "myChoice" Padukones.) Hence the sermon below: Although the manul looks like it would win the Soft Toy Competition (of all time), it's not a soft toy but has its own life. It is Not a domesticated species, but a wild animal, so not a pet. Plus I read online that it is quite okay with temperatures as low as -50 degrees (that's what its beautiful bushy pelt is actually for), since its habitat is high altitudes, where pathogens are not as common/not the same, so adopting them into your home as the next pet/family member is NOT okay: survivability of young (and even adults) is rendered lower, as the creature is quite vulnerable/not so immune to pathogens in warmer/more human-inhabited climes. If people really cared about it and were happy to know of its existence, they'd leave it alone. It is predictably endangered, and in Mongolia, Tibet, China and Russia it's hunted a lot. And western countries (e.g. US, Germany) keep kidnapping them from their happy homes and locking them up in zoos - should be made illegal - as if they were souvenirs to keep the populace amused and entertained. 3. Forgot to add. People with cats would know, but something that IMO is rather cute. A litter of a single domestic mother cat can have been fathered by multiple male cats. Apparently, a multi-coloured litter weet: is indicative of multiple fathers. (Don't know exactly why, but was reminded of the above by the litter of Karna+Pandava cubs of Kunti and Madri bearing the divine essence of 6 Hindoo Gods.) Vegetarian Discussion - Husky - 05-30-2015 Vegetarian Discussion - Husky - 07-14-2015 ^ Never getting over that. Mini versions of Bhagavaan Ulooka. "But but but His name doesn't necessarily imply..." Too bad, it does. Post 1/? Have long been aware that the subject of the locus of dog domestication is controversial. Do I even need to elaborate? It's Euros vs the more likely Eastern Asiatics to Circumpolar tribes (I think I read that the spitzes at least are usually admitted to be older among the latter and considered ancestral to the European kinds). Personally I think dog domestication may have multiple loci and at various dates but possibly all during the hunter-gatherer era. Nevertheless, spitze breeds may yet be Eastern Asiatic/Circumpolar in origin (also seen among Inuit) rather than European, but I'm willing to hold out until the final word's out on that. But was surprised to find that there are aspects to the wolf itself that are still held to be contentious. This and the subsequent post(s) are about that. The subject is obviously of foremost importance to me. But it concerns human species of Hindoos too in a way, as the next post will be significantly about different species of wolf kind of Bharatam. 1. Still shocking: huffingtonpost.com/2014/01/17/dogs-wolf-ancestors-domestication_n_4616796.html Quote:Dogs' Closest Wolf Ancestors Went Extinct, DNA Study Shows Anyone could have guessed it was pre-agriculture: hunter gatherer ancestors were known to do the hunting bit with domesticated wolves I mean dogs. [Anyway, as was always obvious, oryanism in any case could never have dreamt of claiming the single greatest event in human history: when wolves first decided to make friends with mankind. Dog domestication predates PIE-ism. Mwaha. Haha. Hahahahahaha. And even IE-ists' self-aggrandising claims of horse-domestication turned out to have been false, with horses having apparently been independently domesticated by multiple non-IE populations in various areas... while there are questions hanging over whether the horse was ever even domesticated in the steppes.] I had initially wondered why the HindOO wolves were left out from the study. But, as becomes apparent in the next post, apparently preliminary testing had revealed that except for one, the remainder of our 3 (or rather 4) wolf species are not thought to have originated dogs. Yet one of these species - shared with Tibet and China - was until the late 1970s/early 80s at least thought to have been the progenitor of the domesticated kind. It's not made clear, but was a representative of that species the one that was the "Chinese" wolf considered in the above genetics study? (Else one would wonder why that wolf species was excluded from the above study.) Vegetarian Discussion - Husky - 07-14-2015 Post 2/2 There are about 3 (or is it 4) species of Hindoo wolves. They all occur in India, but are called - the Indian wolf, - the Himalayan Wolf, shown to not be a Grey wolf after all - the "Tibetan" Wolf which is a type of Grey wolf (Gray wolves are seen in much of Eurasia, but the Tibetan wolf is seen from the Indian subcontinent to Korea at one stage) - Golden "Jackal", which is apparently more wolf than jackal. Even so, not sure if it is counted as a wolf by everyone. Not sure what the best order for posting here will be, but excerpting from various sources as linked. General wolf information: graywolfconservation.com/Information/world_wolves.htm Quote:Wolves of the World Among the 37 subspecies of Gray Wolf, the "Tibetan Wolf" also dubbed "Chinese wolf" (despite occurring in much of Asia) occurs in India, and is thus not just a Bon, other Shamanist and Taoist wolf in the rest of Asia, but those in India and Nepal are HindOO heathens: graywolfconservation.com/Information/subspecies.htm "Subspecies: Tibetan wolf/Chinese Wolf Scientific name: C.l. chanco Range: China, Russia, Manchuria, Tibet, India, Nepal, Bhutan" Will get back to the above species later. graywolfconservation.com/Information/world_wolves.htm Quote:Himalayan Wolf (Canis himalayensis) As an aside, in the above excerpted bits, the "Canis Indica" was specifically said not to be misconstrued as related to the Iranian wolf any more, but distinct. Found something interesting about the Iranian wolf: wolfermagic.blogspot.com/2013/08/wolves-of-world-when-does-wolf-not-howl.html Quote:Thursday, August 1, 2013 walkthroughindia.com/wildlife/the-15-super-wild-predators-in-the-reserved-forest-of-indian-subcontinent/ Brilliant page with pictures of our Hindoo heathen brethren like Snow Leopard, Clouded Leopard etc. Awesome. Anyway this bit: Quote:Wild Indian Wolf cosmosmith.com/indian_wolves.asp Quote:The Indian Wolf Karnataka and Andhra. Yet not Tamilnadu? But of course there are Hindoo wolves native to TN. <- Look how I made a subtle self-reference. This next page still confuses/merges Tibetan Wolf with Himalayan wolf, but otherwise tells us that there are (at least) 3 species of wolf in India. I think they then count the Golden Jackal as the third? pnhzp.gov.in/urls/iframe_content/conservation_breeding_tibetan_wolf.html Quote:Tibetan Wolf That site belongs to a "zoological park": pnhzp.gov.in/ Quote:Darjeeling Zoo: Padmaja Naidu Himalayan Zoological Park Wackypedia: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tibetan_wolf Quote:The Tibetan wolf (Canis lupus chanco), also known as the woolly wolf, is a gray wolf subspecies native to Asia from Turkestan throughout Tibet to Mongolia, northern China and the Indian subcontinent. In Tibet and Ladakh it is known as chánkú or shanko.[2] The final reference, [15], goes to an article about foreigners mining in Korea as part of something actually called "Oriental Consolidated Mining Company [OCMC]" (must be the Korean variant of the East India Company: for looting heathen nations). Don't know why the Foreign Devils - oh did I just yet again translate the colonial-era Chinese term for the aliens? - don't know why the alien christo-demons didn't just call themselves exploiters of others' wealth and lives. (Speaking of which, the Brits have been outed in recent news as having been deeply beein into "owning" Africans as slaves - c.f. how the Brits usually try to fingerpoint just the AmriKKKans on that one, and try to reduce their criminality to "merely" trading in slaves instead of also "owning" them. <- IIRC there was just such a dialogue in some illustration from Trollope.) Anyway, the alien miners reported that wolves regularly attacked. Either the mining operations had come too far into wolf territory, and probably affected the creatures' actual food supply thereby, so that the humans had to supplement the animals' usual food sources, or the Shamanist wolves just didn't like christo-exploitation. A la the famous lion attacks against the colonials in Africa. (Wasn't there a typical simplified hollywho film on this subject: The Ghost and The Darkness I think it was called? IIRC the lions were supposed to be African heathen ancestors avenging heathenism/Africans by knocking of the christos/foreign devils.) Either way, apparently 48 victims of wolf attacks in Korea at one point: english.ohmynews.com/articleview/article_view.asp?article_class=2&no=362934&rel_no=1 Quote:Devils in the Darkness The price of human "progress". At least the E Asian heathens lament the losses truly, with sincerity, and even side with the loss of the various animal and plant species (because as heathens they identify with these as the truer heathen selves) in their literature and films. The Japanese are particularly famous for such self-criticism, e.g. "Pom Poko", "Kaze No Tane No Nausicaa", and my favourite from that series "Mononoke Hime". Back to the HindOO wolves, this is wackypedia on the Himalayan Wolf. Apparently some don't want to recognise it as distinct from the Grey Wolf species despite the DNA studies: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Himalayan_wolf Quote:Himalayan wolf Perhaps for the same reason that Himalayan Wolf and Canis Indica (Indian Wolf) haven't interbred. (Oh wait, this is India. I can already hear allegations of casteism for such "endogamy". No?) Yet consider how it took centuries before the Eastern Wolves of N America decided to interbreed with the Coyotes. Until then N America's Eastern Wolves just killed the Coyotes if these ventured into their territory. IIRC they're even described as enemies traditionally. This interbreeding is very recent, started around the turn of the 19th century IIRC, and happened as a result of... let's call it desperation: loss of territory by both, and for what's thought to be some mutually-beneficial reason, they're now teaming up by interbreeding. Whereas, maybe the 3 species of Hindoo wolves see no need (yet) to interbreed? Or maybe - 'cause they're called distinct "species" - they don't produce viable offspring(?) Or perhaps relative sizes of the creatures are not very compatible for breeding? (Very small dog varieties and very large ones don't seem to interbreed easily with each other either. But none of the Indian wolves seem that large: aren't they're all relatively smallish creatures compared to some other wolves?) Alternatively, just like behavioural differences were cited btw Canis Indica (Indian Wolf) and Canis Himalayensis (Himalayan Wolf) that have kept them from interbreeding, there may be subtle behavioural differences between the latter and the Tibetan Wolf species too that have kept them from interbreeding. Who knows. But if the genetics results show they haven't interbred in aeons, then they haven't interbred. Moreover, at minimum, if the Himalayan species is more ancient than the Tibetan species of wolf, then the former can't be a "type" of the latter. Vegetarian Discussion - Husky - 08-27-2015 Moral behavior in animals - Frans de waal www.ted.com/talks/frans_de_waal_do_animals_have_morals?language=en Quote:What happens when two monkeys are paid unequally? Fairness, reciprocity, empathy, cooperation ââ¬â caring about the well-being of others seems like a very human trait. But Frans de Waal shares some surprising videos of behavioral tests, on primates and other mammals, that show how many of these moral traits all of us share. Quote:Frans de Waal: Primatologist The video is also at: youtube.com/watch?v=GcJxRqTs5nk [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GcJxRqTs5nk[/media] transcript: www.ted.com/talks/frans_de_waal_do_animals_have_morals/transcript?language=en Quote:I was born in Den Bosch, where the painter Hieronymus Bosch named himself after. And so I've always been very fond of this painter who lived and worked in the 15th century. And what is interesting about him in relation to morality is that he lived at a time where religion's influence was waning, and he was sort of wondering, I think, what would happen with society if there was no religion or if there was less religion. And so he painted this famous painting, "The Garden of Earthly Delights," which some have interpreted as being humanity before the Fall, or being humanity without any Fall at all. And so it makes you wonder, what would happen if we hadn't tasted the fruit of knowledge, so to speak, and what kind of morality would we have? All my "ethics" and "morality" are just as heathen as that of my heathen fellows: the other animals (in this case other mammals). Conclusion: Morality comes from heathenism. In contrast, genocide for the purposes of furthering ideology (aka "convert-or-kill") comes from missionary religions, especially the monogawdism, notable the christoclass mindvirus. Must watch video though. Capuchin monkey getting irate over receiving a cucumber for doing the same work for which the other capuchin got grapes is Priceless. That's where my sense of fairness is from. Didn't need humanity to "first evolve" it. So the score: - the foundations of morality are not invented/innovated by humanity after all - tools: not unique to humanity either. And, as part of that, fashioning weapons is not unique to humanity either. E.g. the example of IIRC chimpanzees fashioning sticks with a dangerously pointy side to hunt and kill bushbabies with. - creativity: making art, including artworks representing own species (or a beautiful specimen of it), is not unique to humans. E.g. elephants like to make not only landscape paintings, but paintings of other elephants. He-elephants have been known to paint beautiful she-elephants (so said the video description) carrying flowers. Not to mention that they're better artists than I am. So, what's left to set humanity apart? Hmmmm. Well, there's always the record of largest unmitigated parasite on the planet... But I don't think it comes across as all that complimentary for that to be humanity's defining trait. Oh wait there's language to set us apart. Then again, many biologists of sea mammals swear that dolphins and IIRC some whales have their own languages. Hmmm. Quick someone, declare the characteristically human quality to be "grammar". In other words: quibbling over the remnants that can set us apart at last. There must be something that justifies humanity's superiority - I mean, the babble declared it so, therefore it must be true. <- Mono-moronism. Vegetarian Discussion - Husky - 03-11-2016 The otter is also native to the subcontinent. The Hindoo otter occurs all across the north and in the south of Bharatam and in Sri Lanka. It's called the "Eurasian otter" but - like "Eurasian" genes are magically declared "European" genes - the Eurasian otter is called the "European otter" too. biodiversitywarriors.wikispaces.com/Eurasian+Otter (map of distribution.) en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_otter Pre-emptively: it did not, in fact, arrive with any "oryan" invasion. |