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NRI Corner 2 - Guest - 04-19-2007
sankara,
I think lot of factors must have contributed, I can list some
Bullying is very high in US schools.
New immigrants take some time to adjust in new environment.
Asian immigrant parents put lot of pressure on kidâs school grade. Comparison is so high; it put lot of pressure on kids.
Guns are easily available.
Parents ignore sign. In this case, parents reported to authority that he suicidal and got help also
Just a sad case.
Police was unable to secure school. No shut down.
NRI Corner 2 - Guest - 04-19-2007
<b>TN to sponsor Loganathan relatives visit to US</b><!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin--><b>Tamil Nadu government came forward to foot the travel bill for nine family members, who will leave for the US in the Lufthansa flight on Thursday</b>, <!--emo&:o--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/ohmy.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='ohmy.gif' /><!--endemo-->Â while the Regional Passport Office issued passports in a record one hour's time for four of them. The US Consulate here issued visas late in the afternoon.Regional Passport Officer Sumathi Ravichandran also made the travel bookings on their behalf.
The family, including Loganathan's aged parents, GK Vasudevan and Kamalammal, brothers GV Palanivel and GV Sengottuvelan, and their wives, would leave for US on Thursday.
The Regional Passport Officer said based on a request from the Chief Minister's office and instructions from the External Affairs Ministry, the application forms from four family members - Loganathan's parents, and brother Sengottuvalavan and the latter's wife Sentamilselvi - were issued passports under 'tatkal' scheme, but <b>no fees were charged from them.</b> <!--emo&:o--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/ohmy.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='ohmy.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Meanwhile, the Tamil Nadu Government informed the State Assembly that it would bear the entire expenses involved in the family's trip to the US.
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Are they going to do this favor for every crime victim's family in future?
NRI Corner 2 - dhu - 04-19-2007
<!--QuoteBegin-sankara+Apr 18 2007, 02:06 PM-->QUOTE(sankara @ Apr 18 2007, 02:06 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->I suspected yesterday that there might have been abuse of some sort by some christian teachers or priest/pastor during his childhood that might have partly contributed to the mental illness of this troubled man, knowing something of the south korean christian community in the US and some christian sects in south Korea. This particular news report points in that direction.
What exactly was he was disappointed about christianity, and his history with the christian institution, that might have contributed to his troubled past and shaped his personality?
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Agreed. He has expounded Christian imagery in his multimedia message. He calls himself "question mark", obviously hating his given korean name. I would think he is using the christian imagery to rage against the forceful erasure of his real identity. In the confusion he conflates his particular case with the whole gamut of dispossessed persons, from high school outcastes to ishmael the illegitimate son of abraham....
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->knowing something of the south korean christian community in the US and some christian sects in south Korea. <!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Please write a few lines about this.
NRI Corner 2 - Guest - 04-19-2007
He also had marking on his multi-media -package.
Christian cross and "X" inside circle on left and right side of upper line of Christian Cross.
return on fedex he signed his name as "Ishmail Ax."
IsmÄ'Ä«l; translates as "God will hear"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ishmael
His picture- http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/7753/layouteq4.jpg
NRI Corner 2 - Guest - 04-19-2007
http://au.news.yahoo.com//070416/2/134o7.html
Thursday April 19, 04:39 PM
<b>Gunman posted chilling video to NBC</b>
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->"You thought it was one pathetic boy's life you were extinguishing. Thanks to you, <b>I die like Jesus Christ, to inspire generations</b> of the weak and the defenceless people."<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
NRI Corner 2 - dhu - 04-19-2007
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->NBC News report:
Much of it is incoherent, laced with profanity; he rails against Hedonism and Christianity.
""Jesus loved crucifying me, He loved inducing cancer in my head, terrorizing my heart and ripping (raping?) my soul all this time."<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
they have only released the uncharitable parts. Amrikans have absolutely devastated East Asia with Psy-ops including brutal fetishization of East Asian women.
NRI Corner 2 - ramana - 04-20-2007
Try to keep track of this Cho's narrative. I think there are deep religious undertones for his violence.
NRI Corner 2 - dhu - 04-20-2007
<!--QuoteBegin-ramana+Apr 20 2007, 01:04 AM-->QUOTE(ramana @ Apr 20 2007, 01:04 AM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->Try to keep track of this Cho's narrative. I think there are deep religious undertones for his violence.
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Nothing solid is being released. A lot of false arguments about mental illness (Paranoid Schizophrenia, Delusional Disorder, and Bipolar Mania) and "partial" autism are being put out, in addition to gun control/rights diversion propaganada. I don't think similar attributions about mental illness were made in the other amrikan mass shootings. Reporters managed to find Cho's elderly great aunt in Korea- in translation, she called her grandson an "idiot" for going through with the event and possessed by an "evil spirit"- this interview seemed a particularly egregious charatcter assassination job.. Psychologists seem complicit in snipping all the loose ends. Korean-Americans are leaving the campus in fear.
There are some poetic works which reference "Ishmael's ax" which is the probable source for this phrase. His play is Richard McBeef: See Here
Richard: I may not be your Biological father but I am your new father. We live under the same roof....
................................
John (Cont'd)
What are you a Catholic priest! I will not be molested by an aging balding overweight pedophilic stepdad....
stepdad here is the church, the initiator of the "Neurosis of the Convert" in Naipaul's terms.
NRI Corner 2 - dhu - 04-20-2007
Typical bushie type reviewer:
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->The Mind of a Murderer
A glimpse into the mind of Cho Seung-Hui through his writings in âcreative writing classâ sheds some light on his views and thoughts. First is his one act play called âRichard McBeefâ and clearly some negative feelings about Catholics and Entertainers/Hollywood. The seen is a stepfather trying to have a talk with his new stepson John:
  (Richard [McBeef - Stepfather]gently rests him [sic] hand on Johnâs lap)
  JOHN: What are you doing?
  (John slaps Richardâs hand)
  JOHN (contâd): What are you, a Catholic priest? I will not be molested by an overweight pedophilic stepdad named Dick! Get your hands off me sicko! Damn you, you Catholic priest. Just stop it, Michael Jackson. Let me guess, you have a pet named Dick in Neverland ranch and you want me to go with you to pet him, right?
<b>There is a lot of classic anti-West rhetoric in this one paragraph. Catholics, gays, Pedophiles, Pop Culture - all portrayed as evil and attacking the innocent.</b>
The second one act play pits young kids against a nasty, old man who steals their winnings in a casino. <b>Again the imagery is of kids lost in the evil of society being harassed by the Western White Man whose only purpose in life is to screw the kids. </b>He definitely portrays the classic youthful rebellion against authority figures, but with an evil and violent twist that is fairly shocking. Again, I am not saying he is an Islamic-mad murderer. He rails against authority more than anything else, but he definitely cannot find any good in society outside the young and oppressed.
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
NRI Corner 2 - dhu - 04-20-2007
Cho's medical records have been released, which by all accounts is a violation of patient privacy protocols. I will post the detention order here only because it rubbishes the prevalent claim that Cho had a delusional or psychotic disorder.
link
Oriented X 4
Affect is flat and mood is depressed.
He denies suicidal ideation.
He does not acknowledge symptoms of thought disorder.
His insight and judgment are normal.
NRI Corner 2 - dhu - 04-20-2007
Another Bushie type...
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->On Hating Rich Kids . . . and More
The Virginia Tech shooterâs America problem.
By Jerry Bowyer
We know a lot more now than we did on Monday. And we know for sure that Cho Seung-Hui had a problem with America. Today, of course, we are being bombarded by the contents of a package sent by the killer to the folks at NBC: videos, photos, writings, and ramblings â all disturbing and in their own way telling. But I contend that the playâs the thing.
Cho Seung-Hui wrote a viscerally anti-American play called âMcBeefâ in which a former NFL player and McDonaldâs connoisseur sexually molests his stepson and then kills him. Early in the play <b>the stepson rages against the stepfather, calling him a âpedophileâ and repeatedly referring to him as âa Catholic priest.â</b> <b>In the eye of the author, pedophilia and Christianity are one in the same. </b>The play also makes constant reference to the evil stepfatherâs obesity; in the eye of the author we are all fat Americans who eat at McDonaldâs.
The title of the play manages to swipe at Shakespeare and McDonaldâs at the same time. <b>Cho Seung-Hui punned Macbeth, </b>the play in which an evil man kills his way to the top of the kingdom. However, he pilfered Hamlet, a story in which a vile man murders the king, takes the queen as his wife, and ultimately kills the son. âMcBeefâ is about a sick nation; it attempts to inform us that somethingâs rotten in the state of America. But what we discover is the rot in the killerâs head.
Envy, deep and powerful, comes through it all. Resentment against our society. Christianity, capitalism, and sports all take their hits. This was a man who hated the American regime â our very way of life. And he took a Muslim name to register his discontent â Ismail, the preferred Arab spelling of âIshmael,â Abrahamâs first son, the disinherited son who took second place to the wealthy Isaac.
Do I blame Islam for Cho Seung-Hui? No. He was a curse on Islam, not the other way around. Do I blame films such as Super Size Me for his extreme and bizarre attitudes toward the eating habits of a good many Americans? No again. Do I blame the New York Times and its obsession with wealth-inequality for his hatred of ârich kidsâ? No, once more.
But I will go this far: There is a rising tide of resentment in our country against the so-called ârich,â and Christianity, and a Big Mac with fries. Talk-show hosts, op-ed writers, documentarians, and authors of all stripes take part in it. They speak to psychologically healthy audiences, although the bent and wicked are listening in too.
Cho Seung-Hui, it seems to this writer and radio host, was exposed to all of it. He gulped the resentment in the air, chewed it over in the dark corners of his soul, and then released it in a torrent of rage. He alone is responsible for his actions, but our society can either stir up hatred or pour oil on troubled waters. Unfortunately weâve gotten better at the former and worse at the latter.
Itâs like poisonous mercury in the ocean. For some reason, a number of fish pick it up but never purge it. The poison grows in concentration, until the life is irreparably lost.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
NRI Corner 2 - dhu - 04-20-2007
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->This "Ian" guy can't me any more of a media w@%?! than this---"Before Cho got to class that day, we students were talking to each other with serious worry about whether he could be a school shooter." *Rriiighhtt...* Wondering if he's going to be a school shooter. That's like me wondering if my coworker is going to get in a car accident that day. If everyone judged people from their literary work (crappy as it may be) then everyone would be held in suspicion of commiting some kind of behavior. It's my opinion that the d@##?! who wrote this note was fabricating a story to link him to this guy that he never knew.
Out of the reported 11,000 students driving onto the campus that morning, Ian just happens to think "Hmm...I wonder if it was Seung who did the killing". Those are some pretty slim odds.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
NRI Corner 2 - dhu - 04-20-2007
catholic fundoo conflating 9/11 and school shootings:
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Monday, April 16, 2007
Shooting in VA
Let me preface by saying that I have only caught a few snippets of news regarding the campus tragedy in VA. First and foremost we must pray for the dead, and the students and families dealing with this unspeakable tragedy.
Secondly, and don't quote me on this, so little information is out there, but I am eerily reminded of two other shooting incidents, one in a mall in Utah a few months ago, and the DC sniper reign of terror a few years back. I am also, of course, reminded of the Columbine attacks carried out by Satanical monsters several years ago.
It is impossible to know how each of us as individuals would react in the face of such violence and evil, anyone who has not experienced it is hardly qualified to comment. However I'll go out on a limb here and say this, in the face of events such as this one, the September 11 attacks, and scores of smaller incidents of evil and violence that occur all too often in our time, and throughout history, when people are presented with such evil manifested in a sick, twisted, individual, one must do all they can to resist. If one leads, many will follow.
As we learned on 9-11, malicious evil-doers can NEVER be given the benefit of the doubt. The three hijacked planes that went into buildings were full of people who, until those last terrifying seconds, thought they were being held hostage, and of greater value to the hijackers alive than dead. Only technology (cell phones) and time allowed the good people of Flight 93 to fight back and in the process save countless others. In the post 9-11 world I would bet that no person alive, man or woman, age 9 or 90 would hesitate to charge an airline hijacker.
When one is being mugged, obviously, your wallet is not worth your life,<b> but when a sinister person, with no visible motive other than evil, brandishes a weapon, </b>I pray that every good person in proximity will have the courage to fight them tooth-and-nail.
Lastly, <b>while I know as a Catholic we should not pass judgment upon the souls of others, I suspect that the monster who killed these young people in VA is just beginning his eternity in the fires of Hell. </b>I don't know anything about him, but I simply do not care to hear a word in the coming days along the lines of "a troubled childhood," or "society failed him," or "childhood bullying." <b>Moral relativism and psychobabble must not be allowed to cover up for the fact that such evil exists in our world. </b>Let no one waste one moment of time on sympathy for him and instead focus on the killed, the wounded, and the grieving. <b>May they all know the love and comfort of Our Savior Jesus Chirst. In the words of the Holy Father, "Despite all the darkness in the world, evil does not have the last word."</b><!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
the mindset is set, they have no way to order events in an ordinal fashion, everything gets lumped together in one pile or the other. The cosmos is the paranoid conspiracy theory of the Creator, you are the one preventing its fruition by your relativism.
>>>>Our moral concepts are capable of being ordered (Whether it is a partial- or quasi-ordering is an empirical question). It will be a qualitative ordering, to be sure. But Western moral concepts cannot order actions; they can only classify them. As a result, epistemologically speaking, there is a greater chance that our concepts can aid in the generation of an adequate moral theory than Western theories are ever likely to in their present form.<<<<<<<<<<<
NRI Corner 2 - dhu - 04-20-2007
Mental illness lecture:
Waiting Until It's Too Late
Mental illness and the Virginia Tech massacre.
By Jennifer Roback Morse
NRI Corner 2 - dhu - 04-20-2007
this one has everything: Hell, Pope, Auschwitz, small Filipino parish in Rome, Heroes, God, Eternity, non-God-choosers.........
C. R. Hardy
To say the least, I have never seen anything even close this spiel, in India, say after the Mumbai attacks; no indian questioned the "justification" of the Universe's existence.
NRI Corner 2 - Guest - 04-20-2007
And here it is, what I was waiting for - the 'S Korean cinema' angle:
http://au.news.yahoo.com/070419/2/136a8.html
Friday April 20, 08:19 AM
<b>Gunman's image 'could prompt copycats'</b>
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Postings on internet film sites also noted a similarity between Cho's poses and scenes from the bloody 2003 South Korean film, "Oldboy." Cho immigrated from South Korea to the United States as a child.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->The news showed the 'similarity': first a clip from the violent S Korean movie 'Oldboy' where the hero (?) went around fighting with a hammer, then they showed a picture of Cho with a hammer. But my gawd, the parallels were so dazzling, I'm momentarily blinded now.
arcasm: (From what the news showed, the poses were not particularly similar IMO. But anyone here watched 'Oldboy'? Can they confirm/deny this is similar to those photos Cho made of himself?)And here I was thinking this serial-murderer had <i>shot</i> his unfortunate victims - as in, <i>with a gun</i>. No, it's not gun control that's to blame in America: it's S Korean films' influence on the Korean youth! There you have it, more reasons to shove US films into S Korea.
Rumours ('postings on the internet') are apparently valid psych evaluations now... So everyone is sure this maniac watched S Korean films and was 'inspired' by them and not at all by US-made horror films like Saw III, Hostel, Texas Chainsaw Massacre and whatnot other sadistic, violent movies they've made recently.
Even though it says Cho had 'immigrated to the US as a child' and its then fair to say he could have watched American movies too. Interesting that even in blaming films people have to resort to distancing the matter from the US itself.
NRI Corner 2 - dhu - 04-20-2007
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->....
Grandfather: Cho quiet, but âwell-behavedâ
He said his sister â Choâs mother â occasionally called around holidays, but never mentioned having any problems with her son.
âShe said the children were studying well. She didnât seem worried about her children at all,â Kim said. âShe just talked about how hard she had to work to make a living, to support the children.â
He said he has been unable to reach Choâs mother since Mondayâs massacre. She and her husband now work at a dry cleaners in Centreville, Va.
Choâs maternal grandfather also told South Korean newspapers that relatives were concerned about Cho not talking much as a child.
Cho âtroubled his parents a lot when he was young because he couldnât speak well, but was well-behaved,â the grandfather, who was identified by only his last name Kim, told the Dong-a Ilbo daily.
<b>In Seoul, more than 1,000 people sang hymns and prayed for Choâs victims at a special service at Myeongdong Cathedral, some fighting back tears. White flowers, candles and a U.S. flag adorned a small table in the center of the chapel.</b>
... http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18201501/>1=9246<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
NRI Corner 2 - dhu - 04-21-2007
I cannot find any mainstream Asian critical analysis. Asia Finest:
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Is Cho a bad projection of our society? I think this society brings out the worse in Cho. That is not to say he is not responsible for his actions. In society where laws are enforced, you know damn well your actions will have consequences. But we might have pushed him to the edge. When you corner a dog, it will bite you. I think it makes no sense for people to have hateful attitudes towards Asians just because of Cho's action. Instead, I think we as a society should re-evaluate ourselves. Koreans or Asians are not responsible for Cho's action. Cho is someone who happens to be Asian.
Does it surprise you to know that US has high pravalent rate of mental disorders? As an individual, society expects a lot from you. It is individualism after all. When your societal expactations are unmet, you sure have some work to do before you go insanse. It's kind of strange how society emphasizes on individualism but finds those who are different from the group unacceptable. <b>May I say individualism is a myth that sustains the existence of Capitalism. </b>I don't get me wrong I like Capitalism. But does Capitalism say buy a alot of stuff and decorate yourself, you will become an individual. Anyone who doesn't dress like you is not cool. Now with the clothes you wear, you have to behave in a certain way that distinguishes you from those who don't wear clothes like you do.
What a lame message I just wrote. I feel cheesy now. But I take whatever I can get.
So what do you think?<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->ahhh, f@#$% em. Thank god for Chai Vang and Cho Seung Hui!!!! now those sorry @$$ white crackers will know not to f@#$% with us. f@#$% with us and we'll fire back. but, R.I.P to all those who died. much love to the families.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
NRI Corner 2 - dhu - 04-21-2007
More Psyops
-getting vulnerable family members to disown him with swear words:
SOB
This is pretty much unprecedented when compared to other similar amrikan school shootings.
I'm sure this news would have been delivered by a female Asian newscaster:
http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=3053725&page=1
A Daughter who succeeded, A Son who found trouble
Seung-Hui Cho's parents lived the Immigrant Dream,
What Happened to Their Son?
NRI Corner 2 - dhu - 04-21-2007
This self-flaggelation is more than the usual sensitive asian concern for others' perceptions, collective identity, etc.
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->While Americans were grieving and trying to a make sense of Mondayâs massacre at Virginia Tech, on the other side of the Pacific, South Koreans were shaking their heads in disbelief that one of their own could unleash the worst massacre in U.S history.
Most Koreans don't regard Cho Seung-Hui as a "typical Korean" since he spent the bulk of his life immersed in American culture. Still, a collective sense of regret and guilt was palpable today due to the strong tendency of Koreans to perceive the tragedy in terms of Korean nationalism, in which the group trumps the individual. "It's a notion of collective responsibility," says Mike Breen, the author of The Koreans. When a Korean does something wonderful, the country rejoices, but when one of its own goes off the rails, like Cho Seung-Hui, there's a collective sense of shame and burden. So much so that <b>South Korea's Ambassador to the U.S., Lee Tae Shik, pledged to fast for 32 days to show his sorrow today. </b>"I can smell a collective sense of guilt," says Lim Jie-Hyun, a history professor at Hangyang University in Seoul. "There is confusion [in Korea] between individual responsibility and national responsibility."
In a country where untold numbers of citizens seem eager to travel, work and live in the United States, many Koreans were dumbfounded when they discovered this morning that the "Asian" campus killer was in fact a 23-year-old South Korean citizen. "I was shocked," says Hong, Sung Pyo, 65, a textile executive in Seoul. "We don't expect Koreans to shoot people, so we feel very ashamed and also worried." Most important, he adds, "we don't want Americans to think all Koreans are this way."
Nor did President Roh Moo Hyun, who sent at least three messages of condolence to the U.S. and gathered aides for an emergency meeting on Wednesday morning, once it became widely known on the peninsula that the shooter was a South Korean student who moved with his struggling parents to the U.S when he was eight years old. Roh reportedly called for the meeting to discuss measures to cope with any possible fallout from the massacre â inadvertently stoking fears that Koreans living and studying abroad could be in for a rough ride. "Koreans still remember the riots in L.A., so we are worried about some revenge against Koreans," says Kim Hye Jin, 29, a web designer in Seoul, referring to Korean-owned businesses that were looted during the 1992 violence. "We are really worried about the image of our country."
Some Koreans even raised the prospect Cho's rampage could possibly inflict damage on U.S-Korea relations, including the recently signed tentative free trade agreement between the two countries.
This kind of nationalistic response can have an opposite effect as well â when the roles are reversed. In 2002, when two U.S soldiers accidentally ran over two schoolgirls with a tank north of Seoul, anti-American sentiment was widespread in Korea. Some restaurants even hung signboards reading "No Americans" rather than "No Soldiers Allowed." For weeks, thousands of Koreans staged protests against American soldiers, while some Korean media even suggested that the girl's deaths could have been deliberate.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->