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Miscellaneous Topics discussion - Guest - 07-08-2006
Neelakandan. Great name.
Miscellaneous Topics discussion - Guest - 07-10-2006
<!--QuoteBegin-Husky+Jul 8 2006, 01:37 PM-->QUOTE(Husky @ Jul 8 2006, 01:37 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->Neelakandan. Great name.
[right][snapback]53270[/snapback][/right]
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Thank u Husky
Miscellaneous Topics discussion - Guest - 07-14-2006
Your website is beautiful, informative and Excellant.
Article by M.P. Bhattathiri, Retired Chief Technical Examiner , to The Govt. of Kerala. Humble request that it may be published in your website and magazine after editing if necessary.
Bhagavad Gita and management
World Management Lessons from India
M.P. Bhattathiri
Retired Chief Technical Examiner
Govt. of Kerala
India
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Table of Contents
Abstract
Introduction
Management guidelines from the Bhagavad Gita
Old truths in a new context
The source of the problem
Utilisation of available resources
Work commitment
Motivation â self and self-transcendence
Work culture
Work results
Manager's mental health
Management needs those who practice what they preach
In conclusion
A note on the word âyogaâ.
Abstract
One of the greatest contributions of India to the world is Holy Gita which is considered to be one of the first revelations from God. The managent lessons in this holy book were brought in to light of the world by divine Maharshi Mahesh Yogi and Sri Sri RaviShankar, and the spiritual philosophy by Sr. Srila Prabhupada Swami and humanism by Sai Baba. Maharishi calls the Bhagavad-Gita the essence of Vedic Literature and a complete guide to practical life. It provides âall that is needed to raise the consciousness of man to the highest possible level.â Maharishi reveals the deep, universal truths of life that speak to the needs and aspirations of everyone. Arjuna got mentally depressed when he saw his relatives with whom he has to fight.( Mental health has become a major international public health concern now). To motivate him the Bhagavad Gita is preached in the battle field Kurukshetra by Lord Krishna to Arjuna as a counseling to do his duty while multitudes of men stood by waiting . It has got all the management tactics to achieve the mental equilibrium and to overcome any crisis situation. The Bhagavad Gita can be experienced as a powerful catalyst for transformation. Bhagavad gita means song of the Spirit, song of the Lord. The Holy Gita has become a secret driving force behind the unfoldment of one's life. In the days of doubt this divine book will support all spiritual search.This divine book will contribute to self reflection, finer feeling and deepen one's inner process. Then life in the world can become a real educationâdynamic, full and joyfulâno matter what the circumstance. May the wisdom of loving consciousness ever guide us on our journey. What makes the Holy Gita a practical psychology of transformation is that it offers us the tools to connect with our deepest intangible essence and we must learn to participate in the battle of life with right knowledge.
The Holy Gita is the essence of the Vedas, Upanishads. It is a universal scripture applicable to people of all temperaments and for all times. It is a book with sublime thoughts and practical instructions on Yoga, Devotion, Vedanta and Action. It is profound in thought and sublime in heights of vision. It brings peace and solace to souls that are afflicted by the three fires of mortal existence, namely, afflictions caused by one's own body (disease etc), those caused by beings around one (e.g. wild animals, snakes etc.), and those caused by the gods (natural disasters, earth-quakes, floods etc).
Mind can be one's friend or enemy. Mind is the cause for both bondage and liberation. The word mind is derived from man to think and the word man derived from manu (sanskrit word for man).
âThe Supreme Lord is situated in everyone's heart, O Arjuna, and is directing the wanderings of all living entities, who are seated as on a machine, made of the material energy.â
There is no theory to be internalized and applied in this psychology. Ancient practices spontaneously induce what each person needs as the individual and the universal coincide. The work proceeds through intellectual knowledge of the playing field(jnana yoga), emotional devotion to the ideal(bhakti yoga) and right action that includes both feeling and knowledge(karma yoga). With ongoing purification we approach wisdom. The Bhagavad Gita is a message addressed to each and every human individual to help him or her to solve the vexing problem of overcoming the present and progressing towards a bright future. Within its eighteen chapters is revealed a human drama. This is the experience of everyone in this world, the drama of the ascent of man from a state of utter dejection, sorrow and total breakdown and hopelessness to a state of perfect understanding, clarity, renewed strength and triumph.
Mind is very restless, forceful and strong, O Krishna, it is more difficult to control the mind than to control the wind ~ Arjuna to Sri Krishna
Introduction
Management has become a part and parcel of everyday life, be it at home, in the office or factory and in Government. In all organizations, where a group of human beings assemble for a common purpose, management principles come into play through the management of resources, finance and planning, priorities, policies and practice. Management is a systematic way of carrying out activities in any field of human effort.
Its task is to make people capable of joint performance, to make their weaknesses irrelevant, says the Management Guru Peter Drucker. It creates harmony in working together - equilibrium in thoughts and actions, goals and achievements, plans and performance, products and markets. It resolves situations of scarcity, be they in the physical, technical or human fields, through maximum utilization with the minimum available processes to achieve the goal. Lack of management causes disorder, confusion, wastage, delay, destruction and even depression. Managing men, money and materials in the best possible way, according to circumstances and environment, is the most important and essential factor for a successful management.
Management guidelines from the Bhagavad Gita
There is an important distinction between effectiveness and efficiency in managing.
Effectiveness is doing the right things.
Efficiency is doing things right.
The general principles of effective management can be applied in every field, the differences being more in application than in principle. The Manager's functions can be summed up as:
Forming a vision
Planning the strategy to realize the vision.
Cultivating the art of leadership.
Establishing institutional excellence.
Building an innovative organization.
Developing human resources.
Building teams and teamwork.
Delegation, motivation, and communication.
Reviewing performance and taking corrective steps when called for.
Thus, management is a process of aligning people and getting them committed to work for a common goal to the maximum social benefit - in search of excellence.
The critical question in all managers' minds is how to be effective in their job. The answer to this fundamental question is found in the Bhagavad Gita, which repeatedly proclaims that âyou must try to manage yourself.â The reason is that unless a manager reaches a level of excellence and effectiveness, he or she will be merely a face in the crowd.
Old truths in a new context
The Bhagavad Gita, written thousands of years ago, enlightens us on all managerial techniques leading us towards a harmonious and blissful state of affairs in place of the conflict, tensions, poor productivity, absence of motivation and so on, common in most of Indian enterprises today â and probably in enterprises in many other countries.
The modern (Western) management concepts of vision, leadership, motivation, excellence in work, achieving goals, giving work meaning, decision making and planning, are all discussed in the Bhagavad Gita. There is one major difference. While Western management thought too often deals with problems at material, external and peripheral levels, the Bhagavad Gita tackles the issues from the grass roots level of human thinking. Once the basic thinking of man is improved, it will automatically enhance the quality of his actions and their results.
The management philosophy emanating from the West, is based on the lure of materialism and on a perennial thirst for profit, irrespective of the quality of the means adopted to achieve that goal. This phenomenon has its source in the abundant wealth of the West and so 'management by materialism' has caught the fancy of all the countries the world over, India being no exception to this trend. My country, India, has been in the forefront in importing these ideas mainly because of its centuries old indoctrination by colonial rulers, which has inculcated in us a feeling that anything Western is good and anything Indian is inferior.
The result is that, while huge funds have been invested in building temples of modem management education, no perceptible changes are visible in the improvement of the general quality of life - although the standards of living of a few has gone up. The same old struggles in almost all sectors of the economy, criminalisation of institutions, social violence, exploitation and other vices are seen deep in the body politic.
The source of the problem
The reasons for this sorry state of affairs are not far to seek. The Western idea of management centres on making the worker (and the manager) more efficient and more productive. Companies offer workers more to work more, produce more, sell more and to stick to the organisation without looking for alternatives. The sole aim of extracting better and more work from the worker is to improve the bottom-line of the enterprise. The worker has become a hireable commodity, which can be used, replaced and discarded at will.
Thus, workers have been reduced to the state of a mercantile product. In such a state, it should come as no surprise to us that workers start using strikes (gheraos) sit-ins, (dharnas) go-slows, work-to-rule etc. to get maximum benefit for themselves from the organisations. Society-at-large is damaged. Thus we reach a situation in which management and workers become separate and contradictory entities with conflicting interests. There is no common goal or understanding. This, predictably, leads to suspicion, friction, disillusion and mistrust, with managers and workers at cross purposes. The absence of human values and erosion of human touch in the organisational structure has resulted in a crisis of confidence.
Western management philosophy may have created prosperity â for some people some of the time at least - but it has failed in the aim of ensuring betterment of individual life and social welfare. It has remained by and large a soulless edifice and an oasis of plenty for a few in the midst of poor quality of life for many.
Hence, there is an urgent need to re-examine prevailing management disciplines - their objectives, scope and content. Management should be redefined to underline the development of the worker as a person, as a human being, and not as a mere wage-earner. With this changed perspective, management can become an instrument in the process of social, and indeed national, development.
Now let us re-examine some of the modern management concepts in the light of the Bhagavad Gita which is a primer of management-by-values.
Utilisation of available resources
The first lesson of management science is to choose wisely and utilise scarce resources optimally. During the curtain raiser before the Mahabharata War, Duryodhana chose Sri Krishna's large army for his help while Arjuna selected Sri Krishna's wisdom for his support. This episode gives us a clue as to the nature of the effective manager - the former chose numbers, the latter, wisdom.
Work commitment
A popular verse of the Gita advises âdetachmentâ from the fruits or results of actions performed in the course of one's duty. Being dedicated work has to mean âworking for the sake of work, generating excellence for its own sake.â If we are always calculating the date of promotion or the rate of commission before putting in our efforts, then such work is not detached. It is not âgenerating excellence for its own sakeâ but working only for the extrinsic reward that may (or may not) result.
Working only with an eye to the anticipated benefits, means that the quality of performance of the current job or duty suffers - through mental agitation of anxiety for the future. In fact, the way the world works means that events do not always respond positively to our calculations and hence expected fruits may not always be forthcoming. So, the Gita tells us not to mortgage present commitment to an uncertain future.
Some people might argue that not seeking the business result of work and actions, makes one unaccountable. In fact, the Bhagavad Gita is full of advice on the theory of cause and effect, making the doer responsible for the consequences of his deeds. While advising detachment from the avarice of selfish gains in discharging one's accepted duty, the Gita does not absolve anybody of the consequences arising from discharge of his or her responsibilities.
Thus the best means of effective performance management is the work itself. Attaining this state of mind (called ânishkama karmaâ) is the right attitude to work because it prevents the ego, the mind, from dissipation of attention through speculation on future gains or losses.
Motivation â self and self-transcendence
It has been presumed for many years that satisfying lower order needs of workers - adequate food, clothing and shelter, etc. are key factors in motivation. However, it is a common experience that the dissatisfaction of the clerk and of the Director is identical - only their scales and composition vary. It should be true that once the lower-order needs are more than satisfied, the Director should have little problem in optimising his contribution to the organisation and society. But more often than not, it does not happen like that. (âThe eagle soars high but keeps its eyes firmly fixed on the dead animal below.â) On the contrary, a lowly paid schoolteacher, or a self-employed artisan, may well demonstrate higher levels of self-actualisation despite poorer satisfaction of their lower-order needs.
This situation is explained by the theory of self-transcendence propounded in the Gita. Self-transcendence involves renouncing egoism, putting others before oneself, emphasising team work, dignity, co-operation, harmony and trust â and, indeed potentially sacrificing lower needs for higher goals, the opposite of Maslow.
âWork must be done with detachment.â It is the ego that spoils work and the ego is the centrepiece of most theories of motivation. We need not merely a theory of motivation but a theory of inspiration.
The Great Indian poet, Rabindranath Tagore (1861-1941, known as âGurudevâ) says working for love is freedom in action. A concept which is described as âdisinterested workâ in the Gita where Sri Krishna says,
âHe who shares the wealth generated only after serving the people, through work done as a sacrifice for them, is freed from all sins. On the contrary those who earn wealth only for themselves, eat sins that lead to frustration and failure.â
Disinterested work finds expression in devotion, surrender and equipoise. The former two are psychological while the third is determination to keep the mind free of the dualistic (usually taken to mean âmaterialisticâ) pulls of daily experiences. Detached involvement in work is the key to mental equanimity or the state of ânirdwanda.â This attitude leads to a stage where the worker begins to feel the presence of the Supreme Intelligence guiding the embodied individual intelligence. Such de-personified intelligence is best suited for those who sincerely believe in the supremacy of organizational goals as compared to narrow personal success and achievement.
Work culture
An effective work culture is about vigorous and arduous efforts in pursuit of given or chosen tasks. Sri Krishna elaborates on two types of work culture â âdaivi sampatâ or divine work culture and âasuri sampatâ or demonic work culture.
Daivi work culture - involves fearlessness, purity, self-control, sacrifice, straightforwardness, self-denial, calmness, absence of fault-finding, absence of greed, gentleness, modesty, absence of envy and pride.
Asuri work culture - involves egoism, delusion, personal desires, improper performance, work not oriented towards service.
Mere work ethic is not enough. The hardened criminal exhibits an excellent work ethic. What is needed is a work ethic conditioned by ethics in work.
It is in this light that the counsel, âyogah karmasu kausalamâ should be understood. âKausalamâ means skill or technique of work which is an indispensable component of a work ethic. âYogahâ is defined in the Gita itself as âsamatvam yogah uchyateâ meaning an unchanging equipoise of mind (detachment.) Tilak tells us that acting with an equable mind is Yoga.
(Bal Gangadhar Tilak, 1856-1920, the precursor of Gandhiji, hailed by the people of India as âLokmanya,â probably the most learned among the country's political leaders. For a description of the meanings of the word âYogaâ, see foot of this page.)
By making the equable mind the bed-rock of all actions, the Gita evolved the goal of unification of work ethic with ethics in work, for without ethical process no mind can attain an equipoise. The guru, Adi Sankara (born circa 800 AD), says that the skill necessary in the performance of one's duty is that of maintaining an evenness of mind in face of success and failure. The calm mind in the face of failure will lead to deeper introspection and see clearly where the process went wrong so that corrective steps could be taken to avoid shortcomings in future.
The principle of reducing our attachment to personal gains from the work done is the Gita's prescription for attaining equanimity. It has been held that this principle leads to lack of incentive for effort, striking at the very root of work ethic. To the contrary, concentration on the task for its own sake leads to the achievement of excellence â and indeed to the true mental happiness of the worker. Thus, while commonplace theories of motivation may be said to lead us to the bondage or extrinsic rewards, the Gita's principle leads us to the intrinsic rewards of mental, and indeed moral, satisfaction.
Work results
The Gita further explains the theory of âdetachmentâ from the extrinsic rewards of work in saying:
If the result of sincere effort is a success, the entire credit should not be appropriated by the doer alone.
If the result of sincere effort is a failure, then too the entire blame does not accrue to the doer.
The former attitude mollifies arrogance and conceit while the latter prevents excessive despondency, de-motivation and self-pity. Thus both these dispositions safeguard the doer against psychological vulnerability, the cause of the modem managers' companions of diabetes, high blood pressure and ulcers.
Assimilation of the ideas of the Gita leads us to the wider spectrum of âlokasamgrahaâ (general welfare) but there is also another dimension to the work ethic - if the âkarmayogaâ (service) is blended with âbhaktiyogaâ (devotion), then the work itself becomes worship, a âsevayogaâ (service for its own sake.)
Along with bhakti yoga as a means of liberation, the Gita espouses the doctrine of nishkamya karma or pure action untainted by hankering after the fruits resulting from that action. Modern scientists have now understood the intuitive wisdom of that action in a new light.
Scientists at the US National Institute of Mental Health in Bethesda, found that laboratory monkeys that started out as procrastinators, became efficient workers after they received brain injections that suppressed a gene linked to their ability to anticipate a reward.The scientists reported that the work ethic of rhesus macaques wasn't all that different from that of many people: âIf the reward is not immediate, you procrastinateâ, Dr Richmond told LA Times.
(This may sound a peculiarly religious idea but it has a wider application. It could be taken to mean doing something because it is worthwhile, to serve others, to make the world a better place â ed.)
Manager's mental health
Sound mental health is the very goal of any human activity - more so management. Sound mental health is that state of mind which can maintain a calm, positive poise, or regain it when unsettled, in the midst of all the external vagaries of work life and social existence. Internal constancy and peace are the pre-requisites for a healthy stress-free mind.
Some of the impediments to sound mental health are:
Greed - for power, position, prestige and money.
Envy - regarding others' achievements, success, rewards.
Egotism - about one's own accomplishments.
Suspicion, anger and frustration.
Anguish through comparisons.
The driving forces in today's businesses are speed and competition. There is a distinct danger that these forces cause erosion of the moral fibre, that in seeking the end, one permits oneself immoral means - tax evasion, illegitimate financial holdings, being âeconomical with the truthâ, deliberate oversight in the audit, too-clever financial reporting and so on. This phenomenon may be called as âyayati syndromeâ.
In the book, the Mahabharata, we come across a king by the name of Yayati who, in order to revel in the endless enjoyment of flesh exchanged his old age with the youth of his obliging youngest son for a thousand years. However, he found the pursuit of sensual enjoyments ultimately unsatisfying and came back to his son pleading him to take back his youth. This âyayati syndromeâ shows the conflict between externally directed acquisitions (extrinsic motivation) and inner value and conscience (intrinsic motivation.)
Management needs those who practice what they preach
âWhatever the excellent and best ones do, the commoners follow,â says Sri Krishna in the Gita. The visionary leader must be a missionary, extremely practical, intensively dynamic and capable of translating dreams into reality. This dynamism and strength of a true leader flows from an inspired and spontaneous motivation to help others. âI am the strength of those who are devoid of personal desire and attachment. O Arjuna, I am the legitimate desire in those, who are not opposed to righteousness,â says Sri Krishna in the 10th Chapter of the Gita.
In conclusion
The despondency of Arjuna in the first chapter of the Gita is typically human. Sri Krishna, by sheer power of his inspiring words, changes Arjuna's mind from a state of inertia to one of righteous action, from the state of what the French philosophers call âanomieâ or even alienation, to a state of self-confidence in the ultimate victory of âdharmaâ (ethical action.)
When Arjuna got over his despondency and stood ready to fight, Sri Krishna reminded him of the purpose of his new-found spirit of intense action - not for his own benefit, not for satisfying his own greed and desire, but for the good of many, with faith in the ultimate victory of ethics over unethical actions and of truth over untruth.
Sri Krishna's advice with regard to temporary failures is, âNo doer of good ever ends in misery.â Every action should produce results. Good action produces good results and evil begets nothing but evil. Therefore, always act well and be rewarded.
My purport is not to suggest discarding of the Western model of efficiency, dynamism and striving for excellence but to tune these ideals to India's holistic attitude of âlokasangrahaâ - for the welfare of many, for the good of many. There is indeed a moral dimension to business life. What we do in business is no different, in this regard, to what we do in our personal lives. The means do not justify the ends. Pursuit of results for their own sake, is ultimately self-defeating. (âProfit,â said Matsushita-san in another tradition, âis the reward of correct behaviour.â â ed.)
A note on the word âyogaâ.
Yoga has two different meanings - a general meaning and a technical meaning. The general meaning is the joining together or union of any two or more things. The technical meaning is âa state of stability and peace and the means or practices which lead to that state.â The Bhagavad Gita uses the word with both meanings.
M.P.Bhattathiri.
Let us go through what scholars say about Holy Gita.
âNo work in all Indian literature is more quoted, because none is better loved, in the West, than the Bhagavad-gita. Translation of such a work demands not only knowledge of Sanskrit, but an inward sympathy with the theme and a verbal artistry. For the poem is a symphony in which God is seen in all things. . . . The Swami does a real service for students by investing the beloved Indian epic with fresh meaning. Whatever our outlook may be, we should all be grateful for the labor that has lead to this illuminating work.â
Dr. Geddes MacGregor, Emeritus Distinguished Professor of Philosophy University of Southern California
âThe Gita can be seen as the main literary support for the great religious civilization of India, the oldest surviving culture in the world. The present translation and commentary is another manifestation of the permanent living importance of the Gita.â
Thomas Merton, Theologian
âI am most impressed with A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada's scholarly and authoritative edition of Bhagavad-gita. It is a most valuable work for the scholar as well as the layman and is of great utility as a reference book as well as a textbook. I promptly recommend this edition to my students. It is a beautifully done book.â
Dr. Samuel D. Atkins Professor of Sanskrit, Princeton University
âAs a successor in direct line from Caitanya, the author of Bhagavad-gita As It Is is entitled, according to Indian custom, to the majestic title of His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada. The great interest that his reading of the Bhagavad-gita holds for us is that it offers us an authorized interpretation according to the principles of the Caitanya tradition.â
Olivier Lacombe Professor of Sanskrit and Indology, Sorbonne University, Paris
âI have had the opportunity of examining several volumes published by the Bhaktivedanta Book Trust and have found them to be of excellent quality and of great value for use in college classes on Indian religions. This is particularly true of the BBT edition and translation of the Bhagavad-gita.â
Dr. Frederick B. Underwood Professor of Religion, Columbia University
âIf truth is what works, as Pierce and the pragmatists insist, there must be a kind of truth in the Bhagavad-gita As It Is, since those who follow its teachings display a joyous serenity usually missing in the bleak and strident lives of contemporary people.â
Dr. Elwin H. Powell Professor of Sociology State University of New York, Buffalo
âThere is little question that this edition is one of the best books available on the Gita and devotion. Prabhupada's translation is an ideal blend of literal accuracy and religious insight.â
Dr. Thomas J. Hopkins Professor of Religion, Franklin and Marshall College
âThe Bhagavad-gita, one of the great spiritual texts, is not as yet a common part of our cultural milieu. This is probably less because it is alien per se than because we have lacked just the kind of close interpretative commentary upon it that Swami Bhaktivedanta has here provided, a commentary written from not only a scholar's but a practitioner's, a dedicated lifelong devotee's point of view.â
Denise Levertov, Poet
âThe increasing numbers of Western readers interested in classical Vedic thought have been done a service by Swami Bhaktivedanta. By bringing us a new and living interpretation of a text already known to many, he has increased our understanding manyfold.â
Dr. Edward C Dimock, Jr. Department of South Asian Languages and Civilization University of Chicago
âThe scholarly world is again indebted to A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada. Although Bhagavad-gita has been translated many times, Prabhupada adds a translation of singular importance with his commentary.â
Dr. J. Stillson Judah, Professor of the History of Religions and Director of Libraries Graduate Theological Union, Berkeley, California
âSrila Prabhupada's edition thus fills a sensitive gap in France, where many hope to become familiar with traditional Indian thought, beyond the commercial East-West hodgepodge that has arisen since the time Europeans first penetrated India. âWhether the reader be an adept of Indian spiritualism or not, a reading of the Bhagavad-gita As It Is will be extremely profitable. For many this will be the first contact with the true India, the ancient India, the eternal India.â
Francois Chenique, Professor of Religious Sciences Institute of Political Studies, Paris, France
âIt was as if an empire spoke to us, nothing small or unworthy, but large, serene, consistent, the voice of an old intelligence which in another age and climate had pondered and thus disposed of the same questions which exercise usâ
Emerson's reaction to the Gita
âAs a native of India now living in the West, it has given me much grief to see so many of my fellow countrymen coming to the West in the role of gurus and spiritual leaders. For this reason, I am very excited to see the publication of Bhagavad-gita As It Is by Sri A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada. It will help to stop the terrible cheating of false and unauthorized 'gurus' and 'yogis' and will give an opportunity to all people to understand the actual meaning of Oriental culture.â
Dr. Kailash Vajpeye, Director of Indian Studies Center for Oriental Studies, The University of Mexico
âThe Gita is one of the clearest and most comprehensive one, of the summaries and systematic spiritual statements of the perennial philosophy ever to have been doneâ
__________________________________________Aldous Huxley
âIt is a deeply felt, powerfully conceived and beautifully explained work. I don't know whether to praise more this translation of the Bhagavad-gita, its daring method of explanation, or the endless fertility of its ideas. I have never seen any other work on the Gita with such an important voice and style. . . . It will occupy a significant place in the intellectual and ethical life of modern man for a long time to come.â
Dr. Shaligram Shukla Professor of Linguistics, Georgetown University
âI can say that in the Bhagavad-gita As It Is I have found explanations and answers to questions I had always posed regarding the interpretations of this sacred work, whose spiritual discipline I greatly admire. If the aesceticism and ideal of the apostles which form the message of the Bhagavad-gita As It Is were more widespread and more respected, the world in which we live would be transformed into a better, more fraternal place.â
Dr. Paul Lesourd, Author Professeur Honoraire, Catholic University of Paris
âWhen I read the Bhagavad-Gita and reflect about how God created this universe everything else seems so superfluous.â
Albert Einstein
âWhen doubts haunt me, when disappointments stare me in the face, and I see not one ray of hope on the horizon, I turn to Bhagavad-gita and find a verse to comfort me; and I immediately begin to smile in the midst of overwhelming sorrow. Those who meditate on the Gita will derive fresh joy and new meanings from it every day.â
Mahatma Gandhi
âIn the morning I bathe my intellect in the stupendous and cosmogonal philosophy of the Bhagavad-gita, in comparison with which our modern world and its literature seem puny and trivial.â
Henry David Thoreau
âThe Bhagavad-Gita has a profound influence on the spirit of mankind by its devotion to God which is manifested by actions.â
Dr. Albert Schweitzer
âThe Bhagavad-Gita is a true scripture of the human race a living creation rather than a book, with a new message for every age and a new meaning for every civilization.â
Sri Aurobindo
âThe idea that man is like unto an inverted tree seems to have been current in by gone ages. The link with Vedic conceptions is provided by Plato in his Timaeus in which it states 'behold we are not an earthly but a heavenly plant.' This correlation can be discerned by what Krishna expresses in chapter 15 of Bhagavad-Gita.â
Carl Jung
âThe Bhagavad-Gita deals essentially with the spiritual foundation of human existence. It is a call of action to meet the obligations and duties of life; yet keeping in view the spiritual nature and grander purpose of the universe.â
Prime Minister Nehru
âThe marvel of the Bhagavad-Gita is its truly beautiful revelation of life's wisdom which enables philosophy to blossom into religion.â
Herman Hesse
âI owed a magnificent day to the Bhagavad-gita. It was the first of books; it was as if an empire spoke to us, nothing small or unworthy, but large, serene, consistent, the voice of an old intelligence which in another age and climate had pondered and thus disposed of the same questions which exercise us.â
Ralph Waldo Emerson
âIn order to approach a creation as sublime as the Bhagavad-Gita with full understanding it is necessary to attune our soul to it.â
Rudolph Steiner
âFrom a clear knowledge of the Bhagavad-Gita all the goals of human existence become fulfilled. Bhagavad-Gita is the manifest quintessence of all the teachings of the Vedic scriptures.â
Adi Shankara
âThe Bhagavad-Gita is the most systematic statement of spiritual evolution of endowing value to mankind. It is one of the most clear and comprehensive summaries of perennial philosophy ever revealed; hence its enduring value is subject not only to India but to all of humanity.â
Aldous Huxley
âThe Bhagavad-Gita was spoken by Lord Krishna to reveal the science of devotion to God which is the essence of all spiritual knowledge. The Supreme Lord Krishna's primary purpose for descending and incarnating is relieve the world of any demoniac and negative, undesirable influences that are opposed to spiritual development, yet simultaneously it is His incomparable intention to be perpetually within reach of all humanity.â
Ramanuja
The Bhagavad-Gita is not seperate from the Vaishnava philosophy and the Srimad Bhagavatam fully reveals the true import of this doctrine which is transmigation of the soul. On perusal of the first chapter of Bhagavad-Gita one may think that they are advised to engage in warfare. When the second chapter has been read it can be clearly understood that knowledge and the soul is the ultimate goal to be attained. On studying the third chapter it is apparent that acts of righteousness are also of high priority. If we continue and patiently take the time to complete the Bhagavad-Gita and try to ascertain the truth of its closing chapter we can see that the ultimate conclusion is to relinquish all the conceptualized ideas of religion which we possess and fully surrender directly unto the Supreme Lord.
Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati
âThe Mahabharata has all the essential ingredients necessary to evolve and protect humanity and that within it the Bhagavad-Gita is the epitome of the Mahabharata just as ghee is the essence of milk and pollen is the essence of flowers.â
Madhvacarya
Yoga has two different meanings - a general meaning and a technical meaning. The general meaning is the joining together or union of any two or more things. The technical meaning is âa state of stability and peace and the means or practices which lead to that state.â The Bhagavad Gita uses the word with both meanings. Lord Krishna is real Yogi who can maintain a peaceful mind in the midst of any crisis.â
Mata Amritanandamayi Devi.
Karma, Bhakti, and Jnana are but three paths to this end. And common to all the three is renunciation. Renounce the desires, even of going to heaven, for every desire related with body and mind creates bondage. Our focus of action is neither to save the humanity nor to engage in social reforms, not to seek personal gains, but to realize the indwelling Self itself.
Swami Vivekananda (England, London; 1895-96)
âScience describes the structures and processess; philosophy attempts at their explaination.----- When such a perfect combination of both science and philosophy is sung to perfection that Krishna was, we have in this piece of work an appeal both to the head annd heart.
â ____________Swamy Chinmayanand on Gita
I seek that Divine Knowledge by knowing which nothing remains to be known!' For such a person knowledge and ignorance has only one meaning: Have you knowledge of God? If yes, you a Jnani! If not, you are ignorant.As said in the Gita, chapter XIII/11, knowledge of Self, observing everywhere the object of true Knowledge i.e. God, all this is declared to be true Knowledge (wisdom); what is contrary to this is ignorance.â
Sri Ramakrishna
Maharishi calls the Bhagavad-Gita the essence of Vedic Literature and a complete guide to practical life. It provides âall that is needed to raise the consciousness of man to the highest possible level.â Maharishi reveals the deep, universal truths of life that speak to the needs and aspirations of everyone.
Maharshi Mahesh Yogi
The Gita was preached as a preparatory lesson for living worldly life with an eye to Release, Nirvana. My last prayer to everyone, therefore, is that one should not fail to thoroughly understand this ancient science of worldly life as early as possible in one's life.
--- Lokmanya Tilak
I believe that in all the living languages of the world, there is no book so full of true knowledge, and yet so handy. It teaches self-control, austerity, non-violence, compassion, obedience to the call of duty for the sake of duty, and putting up a fight against unrighteousness (Adharma). To my knowledge, there is no book in the whole range of the world's literature so high above as the Bhagavad-Gita, which is the treasure-house of Dharma nor only for the Hindus but foe all mankind. --- M. M. Malaviya
REF.bbt.org, kamakoti.org, amritapuri.org, mahrshi.com, sai.org,chinmaya.org, vivekanada.org,neovedanta/gospel.com,spirituality.indiatimes.com
Miscellaneous Topics discussion - Guest - 07-15-2006
The problem is, most Hindus spend time projecting alleged Islamic terrorism as the enemy, whilst conveniently ignoring the degradation within. It's time Hindus followed Sanatan Dharma, which asks one and all to worship nature (and environment) as one of God's manifestations. If we did, we wouldn't throw garbage or speak rudely to other people.
And oh, Mudy, I didn't know you were female. <!--emo&
--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tongue.gif' /><!--endemo--> It is surprising that you're leading the show here, considering Hindus don't really respect women. What's your real name, btw?
Miscellaneous Topics discussion - Guest - 07-15-2006
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->considering Hindus don't really respect women. What's your real name, btw?<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Mahatma Gandhiji,
Jinnah in Gandhi attire won't change thinking. <!--emo&
tupid--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/pakee.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='pakee.gif' /><!--endemo--> Now this site should be "haram" for you.
Miscellaneous Topics discussion - Bharatvarsh - 07-15-2006
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->And oh, Mudy, I didn't know you were female. <!--emo&
--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tongue.gif' /><!--endemo--> It is surprising that you're leading the show here, considering Hindus don't really respect women. What's your real name, btw? <!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->Actually Gandhi trolls aren't welcome here and how did you come to the conclusion that Hindus don't really respect women?
Is that from personal experience within your own family, if that is the case then the problem may lie with our family not Hindus in general or maybe you found it out through Gandhi's actions of sleeping with his nieces (sorry normal Hindus don't do that) but keep trolling.
Miscellaneous Topics discussion - Guest - 07-16-2006
"Mahatma Gandhi" please PM me with an alternative username ASAP. Else we'll assign one for you.
Miscellaneous Topics discussion - Guest - 07-16-2006
<!--QuoteBegin-Mudy+Jul 15 2006, 09:29 PM-->QUOTE(Mudy @ Jul 15 2006, 09:29 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->considering Hindus don't really respect women. What's your real name, btw?<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Mahatma Gandhiji,
Jinnah in Gandhi attire won't change thinking. <!--emo&
tupid--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/pakee.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='pakee.gif' /><!--endemo--> Now this site should be "haram" for you.
[right][snapback]53872[/snapback][/right]
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Hi Mudy,
I apologize if you're upset by my statements. I was just trying to help. I am not a Pakistani. I am a Sanatani Hindu and a Ram Bhakt, following the ideals of our Mahatma. I believe in women's rights, that they shouldn't be oppressed by men. But unfortunately, that's happening in India, Hindu men are oppressing women in multiple ways, dowry, sati, female infanticide, and so on. I was only trying to point that out to you.
Again, I am sorry if you're upset. BTW, why are my posts not released instantly? Why this moderation?
The Mahatma
Miscellaneous Topics discussion - Guest - 07-16-2006
<!--QuoteBegin-Bharatvarsh+Jul 15 2006, 09:30 PM-->QUOTE(Bharatvarsh @ Jul 15 2006, 09:30 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->And oh, Mudy, I didn't know you were female. <!--emo&
--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tongue.gif' /><!--endemo--> It is surprising that you're leading the show here, considering Hindus don't really respect women. What's your real name, btw? <!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->Actually Gandhi trolls aren't welcome here and how did you come to the conclusion that Hindus don't really respect women?
Is that from personal experience within your own family, if that is the case then the problem may lie with our family not Hindus in general or maybe you found it out through Gandhi's actions of sleeping with his nieces (sorry normal Hindus don't do that) but keep trolling.
[right][snapback]53873[/snapback][/right]
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Gandhi sleeping with whoever are fictions created by westerners. Westerners always make such nasty comments about leaders of other nations. They just can't accept the fact that our Mahatma brough their empire to its knees; hence the baseless accusations. But fortunately for them, they have sepoys like you to do their dirty work in defaming Bharat. Keep up the good work, Varsha. Defame our nation in front of millions, make the job easier for westerners. <!--emo&
--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif' /><!--endemo--> Miscellaneous Topics discussion - Guest - 07-27-2006
Does any one know about this Bhagvan coming up under the banner of HAPPY ThOUGHTS.......????
Miscellaneous Topics discussion - Guest - 07-30-2006
As a retired person who has well established family and loving family members and a person who has studied asaram closely and once was his follower i can understand what psychology asaram bapu has and how demeaning cunning and low self esteem this leader is. My article is based on the personal research and personal meeting with his followers. I thank to god that i was able to get out of his ashram before i gave up my life savings to asaram, becuase i was given talks like see this guy is here from so many years even he had a luxurious life, the fact is all his money and luxuries are owned by asaram. i was taught in ashram to tell new recruits that we have so many followers and give examples of followers who had been made to left thier homes, and family and they are lving here in ashram. I was made to recuit more and more people to work in ashram and seduce them to give up their family responsibilities in the name of spirituality. i was shocked when i was told to tell my grand child that i don't love him if he doesn't tell his father means my son to come and join ashram in ahmedabad.
Asaram Bapu cult exploits its members' vulnerability in order to gain complete control over them, often using unethical psychological techniques to bring about thought reform. It can be said that a Asaram Bapu cult attempts to alleviate its members' vulnerability through spiritual guidance in an effort to help them exercise control over their own lives.
You probably know it as the doomsday cult whose Kool-Aid mass suicide/murders took more than 900 lives in Jonestown, Guyana, in 1978. How can something that began with so much hope go so very wrong? There's a lot of speculation about what happened to the members of The People's Temple, but for the most part, what went wrong is what goes wrong with destructive cults like of asaram bapu
It's really a two-part problem. First, Asaram Bapu cult is founded by a single person who retains a position of exclusive power within the organization, and power tends to corrupt even the most ethical among us. In the case of The Asaram Bapu, there is evidence that its leader, Asaram Bapu, is abusing religious beliefs and is involved in forgery, scams, land grabbing, land encroachment, seduction, mass fantatics protestors. Because Asaram Bapu groups operate outside the mainstream, there is usually no one checking up on their operating procedures, so a corrupt or mentally unstable leader like Asaram Bapu is free to exploit his followers to his heart's content. In addition to this authoritarian leadership structure, some primary tactics or characteristics of a destructive cult like of asaram bapu uses are ::
<b>Charismatic leadership</b> --- It is asaram himself who poses himself as god to his followers. and followers become fanatic in believing asaram as god and they forget in real god or the supreme power.
<b>Deception in recruiting</b> ---- Asaram manipulates his new followers by showing he is a religious man rather than coming in open and telling this is my past and how many people and families i have ruined for my own benefit.
<b>Use of thought-reform methods</b> ---- Asaram followers who are manipulated to live in ashram as sadak are never left open to know whats happening in the world , they are made to listen to his tapes 24 hours /day and think about asaram only.
<b>Isolation (physical and/or psychological) </b>--- asaram bapu has grabbed lands and built number of ashrams all over India with small rooms and instructs his followers to lock themselves in room for hours and think about asaram only, they call it dhayan. Infact in psychology a person is made to think about asaram only and only asaram. Plus most of his followers are dislocated like Delhi follower will be sent to work in his Ahmedabad factory and Ahmedabad follower will be sent to Delhi vice versa. he has number of thikanas to hide his followers if followers family want to take their son/daughter back to their homes.
<b>Demand for absolute, unquestioning devotion and loyal</b>ty ==== asaram will ask for total dedication
from his followers who are living in his ashram, or are new recruits, they are not allowed to pray to any god except asaram, they are not allowed to belive in or listen to any other religious leader.
<b>Sharp, unsurpassable distinction between "us" (good, saved) and "them" (bad, going to Hell) </b>====== Asaram bapu has made categories like hierarchy in followership -- like a new follower is seen as a skeptic, and then when a person leaves his home and starts living in his ashram then he is given some work, and made to think if he works hard and recruit more people form his family then he is promoted with in his cult . Followers are taught any one who speaks against asaram bapu is an evil, and his followers will go to the person who speaks the truth about asaram and will harass him, like they did to Nana Patekar, to new magazine in Delhi, or to respectable saint in north Delhi.
<b>"Inside language" that only members fully understand</b> ==== Ask any of the family members who are hurt by asaram what happened to their child, in fact followers attitude towards parents and family changes , and he sees them as an outsider, and his sect in ashram has their own code words like satta bazaar has their own words same way asaram followers who are living in Ahmedabad ashram has their own words which we can't understand. in these words they tell each other we can trust the third person or be aware of the person because he is against asaram, or if we can make fool and con the person of his money or can make him a slave for their ashram.
<b>Strict control over members' daily routines</b> ==== Asaram bapu control the daily routine of his followers who are living in his ashram by not giving them any real knowledge or skill rather than to emotionally blackmail them and make them speak they were unhappy in this world now they are happy by ruining their life and family and are happy while working as slaves in un humane conditions, It's amazing to see some people are working 20-22 hours per days and have been working in the ashram form last 10 years . asaram in his private meeting with his staff will manipulate all court cases against him and say these outsiders people are fool they are suing me, they cant do anything to me. I met a person in ahemdabad ashram who has not seen his family members for last 17 years, and asaram manipulated him so well that the guy's family is half dead now, and asaram already took a gift deed from this guy for the property owned by his family. He was studying in delhi in Siri guru Gobind singh college and wanted to beome a share broker but today he has been made to think he is sin and asaram is his saviour who saved him, whereas that guy was only a young kid with aspirations for his future and he got exploited by Asaram of his whole life. It was heart breaking to see when families tried to contact us or wanted us to take us back to home or for instance parents of young kids wanted them to leave ashram and work hard on htier career , studies, and make something good of their life asaram bapu and his son narain swami and thier inside guru bhai's (who are brainwashed) will play mind games and will do every effort to keep the brinawashed person there so they can use him for the rest of his life too.
Asaram bapu and his cult followers are driven by political and financial goals as well. In the end, it's all about subjugating members' individuality to achieve the desires of Asaram bapu(s), whether that means reinforcing a self-proclaimed messianic status, participating in destructive activities in the name of spiritual revolution or simply filling the Asaram bapu's pockets with their hard-earned money. Asaram bapu sect employ similar recruiting and indoctrinating techniques as destructive religious cults, targeting people with certain vulnerabilities and then playing on those vulnerabilities to keep them "in the fold." The end result is a "convert" who will blow himself up in the name of destroying capitalism, try to get all of his loved ones to buy into the same business deal that he is losing his life savings on, or keep signing up for an unending series of lectures, seminars and retreats that promise psychological and spiritual healing but really only drain his bank account.
Miscellaneous Topics discussion - Guest - 08-01-2006
Hi All,
I am looking for more information on the following article. If you have or can access the full article, please tell me if you can give me access to it. I will pay any costs. I am also interested in any details about these traditions or rituals in Andhra Pradesh today. If you have such information, or know anybody who has such info, please get back to me.
Here is a link to the following: Click here.
<b>The Vocation of Vedam, the Selection of Srautam: Vedic Brahmans in Coastal Andhra</b>
<i>David M. Knipe, University of Wisconsin, Madison</i>
<!--c1-->CODE<!--ec1-->
This paper is based on fieldwork in the Godavari River Delta of coastal Andhra since 1980, for periods of one to eight months during ten of the last sixteen years. The focus has been life histories of Vaidika Brahmans, a hereditary elite devoted from childhood to learning, maintaining and teaching vedam (the Vedas) and, for a select few, going on to perform the great soma and other sacrifices in their regional tradition of srautam. The site is two adjacent village agraharams and a nearby town that have housed five ahitagnis, i.e. somayajis (sacrificers of soma) who have at the peaks of their careers maintained the sacred fires. One ahitagni is deceased (1993 at age 89); the others are now in their seventies and eighties. Some have been unsuccessful at teaching a single son. Others have taught not only sons but also grandsons through the complete Taittiriya course of vedam in a rigorous instructional process of eight to fifteen years beginning at age five to seven. At this date, although several contemplate the step, no one vedam-certified in either the middle or younger generation has set the fires, performed the agnistoma, and thereby advanced the srautam.
The descriptive side of this paper will focus on the complex features of late twentieth-century agraharam life that lie behind the changing educational patterns of life "in the Vedas," as the Telugu phrase has it. The interpretive and predictive side of the paper will assess the many-sided ways in which this local, oral, ancient, venerable and vulnerable Vedic tradition looks at itself and at the modern world that now imposes radical transformations.<!--c2--><!--ec2-->
Miscellaneous Topics discussion - Guest - 08-01-2006
Dr. Sandeep Chawla,
Thanks for sharing your personal experiences with Asaram Bapu.
You do not offer any proof for your allegations. Any man can accuse anyone without any proof.
Asaram Bapu has been promoting Brahmacharya among the youth.
Certainly I respect him for that.
Now, your warnings about not being fooled by all these babas and swamis is certainly very good.
We should definitely remain very alert and not allow ourselves to be conned by rogues.
Our focus should be on Brahman and the Vedas.
No point wasting time worshipping an ordinary man.
Miscellaneous Topics discussion - Guest - 08-01-2006
dr.sandeep_chawla,
I have seen his ashram and never seen what you are saying.
I know people, who go there to listen his lecture and they are normal and well behaved people. I have some doubts about your intentions.
Could you please tell me where you are located? And which particular ashram you are talking.
Miscellaneous Topics discussion - Guest - 08-05-2006
I googled for "The Vocation of Vedam, the Selection of Srautam", the third result was:<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->[PDF] LSE Research OnlineFile Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat
nd âThe Vocation of Vedam, the Selection of Srautam: Vedic Brahmans in. Coastal Andhra.â Paper at Association for Asian Studies Annual Meeting, ...
eprints.lse.ac.uk/archive/00000465/01/MAS(35-1).pdf <!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->I don't know if it's the actual document you want, or one that merely references it.
In any case, I keep getting a Gateway Timeout when trying to download from http://eprints.lse.ac.uk/archive/00000465/01/MAS(35-1).pdf
The same problem occurs when I try to download any other page on the site.
Maybe it's a temporary or regional problem, I don't know. I hope you have more luck with this.
Miscellaneous Topics discussion - Guest - 08-07-2006
Although I don't have much respect for the modern mass spiritual leaders like the one in question, I must still raise an eyebrow of doubt because of the scale of the allegation.
Miscellaneous Topics discussion - acharya - 08-08-2006
<img src='http://www.hinduonnet.com/thehindu/holnus/002200608081899.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
A boy selling promotional material at a traffic-intersection takes a nap on the railing, in New Delhi, on Tuesday. Photo: V Sudershan.
Miscellaneous Topics discussion - Guest - 08-11-2006
A Q on Tantra:-
This Q is intended mainly to Shri Hauma. I have asked this on hindu religious forums but is not entirely satisfied.
This is about the 3 bhavas of kaula tantrism: Pashu, Vira and Divya.
The actual (real means) 5M sadhna is said to be part of Vira bhava. Some Tantrikas tell me that there is no way to progress in Tantrik process as a celebate. According to them celebacy is the way of the inferior pashu and not Vira. But I have read that Divya bhava is also celebate ~ which have been countered.
I would like to know if divya bhava is indeed celebate?
And whether divya, vira and pasu are 3 seperate paths or they lead into the other??
Thanks in Advance.
Miscellaneous Topics discussion - Hauma Hamiddha - 08-15-2006
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->This is about the 3 bhavas of kaula tantrism: Pashu, Vira and Divya.
The actual (real means) 5M sadhna is said to be part of Vira bhava. Some Tantrikas tell me that there is no way to progress in Tantrik process as a celebate. According to them celebacy is the way of the inferior pashu and not Vira. But I have read that Divya bhava is also celebate ~ which have been countered.
I would like to know if divya bhava is indeed celebate?
And whether divya, vira and pasu are 3 seperate paths or they lead into the other??<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I am not sure I can satisfy you because you will all ways find sAdhakas of different branches holding contrary views. However, I can tell you that technically vIrasAdhana is the path of the adhoretas but the Urdhvaretas have also attained siddhi. For example the celibate sh~Nkarabhagavat-pAda. So it is clear that even by the celibate path one can reach the state achieved by the non-celibate. The divya is beyond dvandva-s and pAshas, hence being celibate or not does not matter to the divya in theory.
If I get the time I will send you a PM because the rest cannot be stated on open forum.
Miscellaneous Topics discussion - Guest - 08-15-2006
<!--QuoteBegin-Hauma Hamiddha+Aug 15 2006, 05:06 AM-->QUOTE(Hauma Hamiddha @ Aug 15 2006, 05:06 AM)<!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->This is about the 3 bhavas of kaula tantrism: Pashu, Vira and Divya.
The actual (real means) 5M sadhna is said to be part of Vira bhava. Some Tantrikas tell me that there is no way to progress in Tantrik process as a celebate. According to them celebacy is the way of the inferior pashu and not Vira. But I have read that Divya bhava is also celebate ~ which have been countered.
I would like to know if divya bhava is indeed celebate?
And whether divya, vira and pasu are 3 seperate paths or they lead into the other??<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I am not sure I can satisfy you because you will all ways find sAdhakas of different branches holding contrary views. However, I can tell you that technically vIrasAdhana is the path of the adhoretas but the Urdhvaretas have also attained siddhi. For example the celibate sh~Nkarabhagavat-pAda. So it is clear that even by the celibate path one can reach the state achieved by the non-celibate. The divya is beyond dvandva-s and pAshas, hence being celibate or not does not matter to the divya in theory.
If I get the time I will send you a PM because the rest cannot be stated on open forum.
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Thanks for your kind reply. I understand these things cannot be talked openly in a public forum.