Sanatana Dharma - Aka Hinduism (1st Bin)

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Sanatana Dharma - Aka Hinduism (1st Bin) - Guest - 09-18-2007

QUOTEIndra lives in Svarga in the clouds around Mt. Meru. <b>Deceased warriors go to his hall after death</b>, where they live without sadness, pain or fear. They watch the Apsaras and the Gandharvas dance, and play games. The gods of the elements, celestial sages, great kings and warriors enrich his court.



Does anyone know the name of this hall? Sounds similar to Valhalla (hall of Odin in Norse mythology, where dead warriors go after fighting gloriously and being slain in battle.

Sanatana Dharma - Aka Hinduism (1st Bin) - Guest - 09-22-2007

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X8zasuy9FBA

WTF is this? Look at the comments, Immediate comments, Either Shankaracharya has fone literally NUTS or the people in the Website commenting are among the TRUE PROBLEM Islam faces and for that matter Abrahmic faith follows,

Immediate comment reflects,

1. May Shankara accept Islam (convert they means).
2. May allah accepts him.
3. Look at x,y,z verses of Rig Veda, no idol worship is there while yindoos do idol worship, so Islam is true Sanatana Dharma and NOT the other.
4. Sanatana Dharma = true way of life, which is ONLY Islam so it must means Sanatana Dharma means ONLY Islam.
5. Those verses in Vedas which are same with Quran should be followed, rest written off as they are WRITTEN BY MAN while Quran is gods relevation.

Can someone put up a nice fitting reply in there saying,

1. To stop misinterpreting Rig Veda.
2. Stop taking about idol worship when one doesnt knows what hindus worships.
3. Hypocricy exposed, when they are saying may this be the true religion and NOT the other, shankaracharya will never say so, hypocricy of your religion exposed that is one of the basic difference between abrahmic faith and dharmic faith, the reason it is not all over world, nor will ever be.

Sanatana Dharma - Aka Hinduism (1st Bin) - Guest - 09-23-2007

Who the hell is this mofo?

Sanatana Dharma - Aka Hinduism (1st Bin) - Guest - 09-23-2007

Pandyan I did not got you what you mean? My coment is about the comments on the speech in Youtube, by the way what do you guys have to say on this insane speech by shankaracharya?

While I did felt there can be good philosophical interpretation of what he said, but this does not means Sanatana dharma = True way of life = but True way of life acording to Muslims = Islam so Sanatana dharma = Islam, its much like the theory of 'All kids are Born Muslim'.

Sanatana Dharma - Aka Hinduism (1st Bin) - Shambhu - 09-23-2007

Some muslims are good. But some are Awrangzeb-Babur worshippers. The kind that will never accept that Islam, which is nothing but greed and carnal desire, was spread through violence and forced conversion thru fear. Starting right from muhammad the molester. That they did not discover anything, they did not invent anything, all their "accomplishments" are stolen from others; that they did not build anything of note, the "Taj Mahal" (sic), "Qutub Minar", and all else are stolen redecorated Hindu buildings; they can only destroy, never create any beauty or learning..

Do not try to argue with them. Spend time uprooting their false "religion". This is done by spreading the truth about Islam amongst non-babur lover Hindus and Muslims. Spread the word about Anwar Sheikh, Ibn Warraq..find out who these people are..

The homicidal fraction of Muslims will slowly be forced to kill each other trying to establish purity, or will be killed as terrorists.

If you want to support Dharma, find out about CAPEEM, IDRF and other such worthwhile causes.

I have been through what you are going through. Trust me:
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1. They are never going to look at reason (look at how many pieces of evidence of the barbarity of Babur etc exist..but they have always disregarded those..how do you expect them to listen to you?)

2. There are ways to hurt them 1000 times more than by arguing with them (actually arguing only gives these b@st@rd piglets some sense of legitimacy). Expose their lies to other people..lets see how many mouths they can shut up then..

Sanatana Dharma - Aka Hinduism (1st Bin) - Guest - 09-24-2007

Well I wont go and proclaim they havent done anything, and that Prophet was a child molestor, there can be equally good arguments supporting such point of views, that way it would be same as argueing following the exact way they do, that argument doesnt wins anything.

We should argue with truth and with legitimacy of Dharma we dont need to criticise their religion but criticise the criticism they ditrects towards our religion, I know what your saying on 'I have been through what you are going through. Trust me' , but things like these are bugging me, because i cannot see so much anti-Hindu stance in the internet, I have reduced by time browsing different websites on the same as i have understood it is of no use and directed more time on my studies.

This video link I got from BR, all I want to ask here is how can Shankaracharya say all these things? Or we are not able to interpret properly what he means in philosophical sense?

Sanatana Dharma - Aka Hinduism (1st Bin) - Shambhu - 09-24-2007

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I think Shankaracharya is saying the things that he needs to say.. <!--emo& Smile

--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /> Concentrate on spreading the truth about Islam, Islamic terror in India, hindu holocaust, library burning, forced conversions, rape, jaziya etc.. spreading it amongst anyone who will listen...Shankaracharya will say what he has to..remember, if you can't say to a forom that Mohd was a child molester, how can Shankaracharya say even the mildest truth about Islam in a hall full of muslims? Plus he loves Dharma, and he knows how deep the problem of Islam is. 600 years of brainwashing have to be undone slowly and carefully, and each one need sto be spoken to according to his level of understanding.

The knee-jerk reflex in humans is huge, and defensiveness due to this reflex is huge. Most muslims don't know squat about true islam, they only know the lies they have been fed about the "glory" of Islam, the "peacefulness" etc. So they will erupt if truth is told to them right away. Break down barriers slowly...

Sanatana Dharma - Aka Hinduism (1st Bin) - Guest - 09-26-2007

QUOTE(Pandyan @ Sep 18 2007, 09:12 PM)<div class='quotetop'>QUOTEIndra lives in Svarga in the clouds around Mt. Meru. <b>Deceased warriors go to his hall after death</b>, where they live without sadness, pain or fear. They watch the Apsaras and the Gandharvas dance, and play games. The gods of the elements, celestial sages, great kings and warriors enrich his court.Does anyone know the name of this hall? Sounds similar to Valhalla (hall of Odin in Norse mythology, where dead warriors go after fighting gloriously and being slain in battle.[right][snapback]73307[/snapback][/right]</div>I don't know about any hall in Svargam - although the Swamy who wrote the above probably knows what he is talking about. All I know of is that Indra is king of Swargam and that Kshatriyas who die in the battlefield are assured of Swargam. For example, it's something mentioned often enough in the Mahabharatam. And at the end of the epic, you can find Duryodhana and the other Kauravas in Swargam along with everyone else.

As for finding parallels with Norse traditions - you won't be the first to infer that. It's been discussed forever among the indologicals of yesteryear (and probably today's indologicals too). However, I am surprised they don't see any striking "Oryan parallels" in Native American tradition where the dead warriors go to join all their heroes and elders gathered at the Great Council Fire in their afterlife. See for instance the closing speech in the film 'The Last of the Mohicans' (Michael Mann's 90s version). The Mohican Chingachcook and his adopted son perform the death rites for his biological son who passed away young, and Chingachcook then talks about how his son, the warrior, has gone to that Great Council Fire (presided over by the Grand Spirit).

You will actually find that such beliefs prevail in many/most places where there is a warrior tradition and where a warrior lifestyle is respected.
(We may safely ignore any pathetic suggestions on how Leif Erikson or the other Vikings that landed in America could/must have introduced this and aught else that vaguely corresponds to anything copyrighted as "Indo-European". But perhaps WitSSel will offer this by way of excuse soon?)

As for the grand IE mythology/religion linking the alleged Oryans left and right - I just posted this elsewhere. But repeating the relevant bits:
http://sarasvati95.googlepages.com/aryanmythology.pdf
<b>Aryan Mythology as Science and Ideology"</b> by Stefan Arvidsson (who also wrote "Aryan Idols")
QUOTE"Aryan Mythology as Science and Ideology" by Stefan Arvidsson (who also wrote that book "Aryan Idols" which Rajesh_G had brought to our attention).
Since the 1980s there has been a heated debate about whether or not the influential theories of George Dumezil have been affected by ideological motives. Critics of Dumezil have argued that Dumezil's ideas about the unique structure of Indo-European mythology were governed by his right-wing sympathies and his romantic view of ancient Indo-Europen - that is, "Aryan" - peoples. This article is meant as a background to that debate. By discussing the historical relationships between the scholarly and the political interest in Aryan religion, I hope to shed light on the intricate but important work of identifying ideological components in the history of religious studies.
Let us begin by looking into one of the most successful <b>attempts to create a religion for "the Indo-European race"</b>: the sounds, visions, movements, and messages of the "total art" of Richard Wagner (1813-1883).It ends with:
QUOTEIt has for good reasons been suggested that the "tripartite ideology" of the Aryans/Indo-Europeans owes its origins as much to the politics of fascist Italy, which Dumezil admired, as to the Vedas or the Eddas.23 in his scholarly work Dumezil seems to have tried to ground in nature - with the help of <b>his theory</b> about the Indo-Europeans' unique
order of producers, warriors, and sovereignsÂ - the fascist dream about an integrated, hierarchical society consisting of workers, soldiers, and leaders. Even the division of "the sovereign function" into two distinct parts - the power of magic and the power fo legislation - which, <b>according to Dumezil</b> is a typical Indo-European trait, might, if we are to believe the historian of religions Bruce Lincoln, be nothing but a reflection of Dumezil's enthusiasm for Mussolini's decision not to crush the magical power flowing from the Vatican but instead to reach an agreement about the distribution of power (the Lateran treaty) (Lincoln 1997).

POSTSCRIPT
As we have seen, the scientific study of Indo-European mythology has been permeated with different ideologies (Christian liberalism, romanticism, fascism, and so forth). <b>Today it is disputed whether or not the downfall of the Third Reich brought about a sobering among scholars working with "Aryan" religions</b>; the discussion of Dumezil's Indo-European mythology, his political sympathies, and their impact on his scholarly works, which historians of religion have lauded as some of the best research the discipline has produced, is still not closed. <b>Perhaps it will lead to the <i>ragnarok</i> (twilight of the Gods) of the concept of Aryan/Indo-European mythology.</b>Lincoln already waved goodbye to 'IE religion/mythology'. Good riddens.

Sanatana Dharma - Aka Hinduism (1st Bin) - Sunder - 09-26-2007

QUOTE(Husky @ Sep 26 2007, 06:36 PM)<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Pandyan @ Sep 18 2007, 09:12 PM)<div class='quotetop'>QUOTEIndra lives in Svarga in the clouds around Mt. Meru. <b>Deceased warriors go to his hall after death</b>, where they live without sadness, pain or fear. They watch the Apsaras and the Gandharvas dance, and play games. The gods of the elements, celestial sages, great kings and warriors enrich his court.Does anyone know the name of this hall? Sounds similar to Valhalla (hall of Odin in Norse mythology, where dead warriors go after fighting gloriously and being slain in battle.[right][snapback]73307[/snapback][/right]</div>I don't know about any hall in Svargam - although the Swamy who wrote it probably knows what he is talking about.</div>

Amaravathi is the name of Indra's city. Swarga is a Loka of it's own and not a hall. 'Veera Swargam' is where warriors go. Not sure where the hall fits into all this.

Sanatana Dharma - Aka Hinduism (1st Bin) - Guest - 09-26-2007

QUOTEWe may safely ignore any pathetic suggestions on how Leif Erikson or the other Vikings that landed in America must have introduced this and aught else that corresponds to anything vaguely copyrighted as "Indo-European".
Hehehehe, very informative. Thanks.

Here's another one.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RV_10

QUOTE10.154 is a funeral hymn, asking for that the departed may join those who attained heaven through tapas. Padas 1cd is reminiscent of the Norse concept of Valhalla:

Â Â To those for whom the meath flows forth, even to those let him depart. (Griffith)

QUOTEPandyan I did not got you what you mean? My coment is about the comments on the speech in Youtube, by the way what do you guys have to say on this insane speech by shankaracharya? 
I meant who the hell is this old gas farter shonkorochoryo and why does his opinion matter? I wonder how much money he got paid for discharging all that gas.

Sanatana Dharma - Aka Hinduism (1st Bin) - Bharatvarsh - 09-27-2007

why don't shankaracharya simply not attend such meetings & not say such nonsense or is that too much to ask?

Sanatana Dharma - Aka Hinduism (1st Bin) - Sunder - 09-27-2007

QUOTE(Bharatvarsh @ Sep 27 2007, 08:44 PM)why don't shankaracharya simply not attend such meetings & not say such nonsense or is that too much to ask?
[right][snapback]73631[/snapback][/right]


I wasn't very happy with what he was saying either. Someone in that position who is supposed to know and represent Sanathana Dharma cannot simply say statements like this. It was almost like he was a paid stooge to Zakir Naik and party. Notice that none of the Muslims sitting next to him were clapping to what he said. They will only be laughing inside, while the Hindus (or atleast the gullible ones) who listen to him reverently will be affected by what he said and will go out of their ways to embrace Islam and musalmaans.

I honestly wonder what his motivation was to endorse Islam and chastise Hindus.

Sanatana Dharma - Aka Hinduism (1st Bin) - Guest - 09-28-2007

QUOTE(Sunder @ Sep 27 2007, 12:24 PM)<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Bharatvarsh @ Sep 27 2007, 08:44 PM)why don't shankaracharya simply not attend such meetings & not say such nonsense or is that too much to ask?
[right][snapback]73631[/snapback][/right]


I wasn't very happy with what he was saying either. Someone in that position
[right][snapback]73632[/snapback][/right]
</div>

Please please. hold on.

Though my network bandwidth ies not allowing me to watch the video, but based upon what I read above, I am almost certain that the guy is (another) imposter Shankaracharya that come by dozen these last few years.

Four/Five months back there was a certain "Shankaracharya" who was going around saying "please break rama setu, ASAP". The guy was paid by T R Baalu. After checking, I got the real picture from Radha Rajan.

Then there was another who went to Kashmir to talk to Hurriyat Conference and "hand over" Kashmir to them. Then another one that was on a visit to USA, was going around on lectures in the temples and criticising Hindutva and Hindus. He was exposed in Atlanta through a a sudden series of Questions by an alert and awake Hindu in the audience. Later turned out that muslims were paying for his trip. Was packed and sent off where he came from. There is a fake Puri shankaracharya who is a congress stooge too. When he opens mouth, he curses RSS, VHP, Hindutva. That is his only mission in life. These ae all fakes. Dont go by someone claiming to be Shankaracharya!!! They come by the dozens.

Then there is Swami Agnivesh - who is another "fake". Has been chastised many times for calling hiself as Arya Samaj's "international" president. But he carries on, with support from communists and jehadis.

Google for "Fake Shankaracharya" gave: http://www.ivarta.com/cause/IC11_SCharya.htm

Can somebody tell me what is his name, (other than "Shankaracharya"), which Matham does he head? If we know the name we know whether he is real or an imposter. Is very easy rather.

Sanatana Dharma - Aka Hinduism (1st Bin) - Guest - 09-28-2007

Thanks Bodhi. Hindus are very impressionable when it comes to these saints and self-proclaimed gurus who are just swindlers and traitors in disguise.

Sanatana Dharma - Aka Hinduism (1st Bin) - Guest - 09-28-2007

QUOTE(Bodhi @ Sep 28 2007, 12:07 AM)Can somebody tell me what is his name, (other than "Shankaracharya"), which Matham does he head?[right][snapback]73636[/snapback][/right]Thought that was my line? <!--emo& Big Grin

--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /> Well, close enough anyway: I was going to ask whether anyone here recognised him. I couldn't.

<b>CORRECTION</b> from erroneous "Dayanand": My bad, the fine print overlay said something more like "Devanand" Saraswati. Obviously I was tuning out.

What was he saying? (Only read the islami comments which translated him in summary as admitting 'islam is the only true religion' or something.)
On second thought, I don't want to know. There are advantages to not being able to understand after all...

Sanatana Dharma - Aka Hinduism (1st Bin) - Sunder - 09-29-2007

QUOTE(Husky @ Sep 28 2007, 09:33 PM)(Only read the islami comments which translated him in summary as admitting 'islam is the only true religion' or something.) 

you can only read Islami quotes because the rest are not admitted. I posted a comment which immediately said 'pending approval' and it never turned up on the site..

Sanatana Dharma - Aka Hinduism (1st Bin) - Guest - 09-30-2007

Bodhi - or anyone else - can you identify this as a genuine Shankaracharya? Pic from the youtube video:
<img src='http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v130/indiaforum/Who_is_this.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />

If the person in that video turns out not to be a Shankaracharya after all, there are some steps one may be able to take.

QUOTE(Sunder @ Sep 29 2007, 01:51 AM)you can only read Islami quotes because the rest are not admitted. I posted a comment which immediately said 'pending approval' and it never turned up on the site..[right][snapback]73699[/snapback][/right]That's Youtube.
However, will you consider posting here what your comment intended for Youtube was? Am very much interested.

<b>ADDED:</b>
QUOTE(Shambhu @ Sep 24 2007, 03:10 AM)<!--emo& Smile

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Pls realize that Hindus have been deceived for centuries by Muslims, Taqqiyah (lying for Allah) is sanctioned in the Koran, and we need to learn some of Mohammed's games too.[right][snapback]73470[/snapback][/right]
Lying is not acceptable - definitely not in people we consider worthy of looking up to. Shambhu, though your willingness to assume good motives in people is laudable, it may work against you sometime. You have to have high expectations of Shankaracharyas, Gurus et al - as must everyone else. Else we'll end up with fakes.
If good qualities are there, then you may feel certain in defending such people whenever others try to cast dirt on them. However, you must have ascertained that such qualities are there in the first place. (The person in that Youtube video is therefore seriously question-marked still.)

If any actual Shankaracharya wanted to spare muslim sentiment, he can avoid speaking on the matter altogether. (I suppose that's in line with that old adage of "If you can't say something kind, don't say anything at all". Although I don't think such silence has ever served us well.) However, their lying is <i>not</i> okay: knowing the truth while relaying a falsehood is a fault unworthy of any person, most especially where it concerns important matters and affects many people.

For teachers, their speech must be pure, thoughts must be pure and actions must be pure. If they fail in this, they cannot be our teachers nor can they be anyone we look up to for guidance on Dharma or other important stuff.

When identifying people as Dharmacharyas, we <i>have to be</i> unreasonable in our expectations. Never settle for mediocrity or triflers. Those who trifle with Truth will have no scruples about trifling with all else that is sacred - including our futures.

Sanatana Dharma - Aka Hinduism (1st Bin) - Bharatvarsh - 09-30-2007

QUOTE: Lord, Mahesh Yogi considers Vishnu Devanand Saraswati as
Shankaracharya of the Jyotish peeth.Â As far as I know he was not
consecrated according to Vedic ritual.Â Also, Mahesh is reported to
pay his monthly expenses?

Shankaracharya: I do not have any evidence of his giving money. This,
however, is certain, that he, Vishnu Devanand does not have offerings
which are enough for his living. Therefore, it seems that he gets
income from outside. Moreover, he calls Mahesh Yogi as puujya (revered),
as Maharishi (great seer) and stands up on his arrival, these are
all things which indicate that he is dependent on him for money. So
far as the question of Shankaracharya is concerned, only he is made
Shankaracharya who has all the qualities of Mahaanushasan (great discipline).
According to Mahaanushasan, Shankaracharya is he who has conquered
his senses, knows all the other scriptures. Only such a person, who
has all these qualities should sit on the seat of Shankaracharya.
In case a wrong person is found to be occupying that seat, he should
be dethroned. As far as I know, the scholars from Baneras had held
him unable for this seat. Even after that statement, he has not acquired
any competency.

Again, the so-called will of the deceased Guru Dev prescribes the
name of Dvarikeshanand Saraswati as the second person, not him. It
is written in that will (of Guru Dev) that this is clearly my order,
that so far as Dvarikeshanand Shastri is alive, there is no one who
has the right to make anyone else succeed to that seat unless Dvarkishanand
becomes mentally incompetent or else relinquishes the seat himself.
Depriving him of his seat is disobedience of the teacher's order.
Therefore, neither according to the Mahaanushasan, nor according to
the will of Shankaracharya (Guru Dev), is he (Vishnu Devanand) the
rightful successor.

When a Sammelan (conference) of all the four seats was called, he
(Vishnu Devanand) was not invited there as one presiding over the
Jyotish Peeth. Moreover, no other Shankaracharya of any seat allows
him to sit next to him.

He knows that in the days ahead he will be exposed. Before that moment
arrives, he wants to make sure that he will not have financial difficulty
in life. He created on Shankaracharya here. There is Shantinand sitting
there (pointing to Shantinand sitting on the stage). They, Shantinand
and Vishnu Devanand have no influence on the public. They are raised
by Mahesh's money. They just sing his glory.

http://minet.org/Documents/shank-5
I was a little bit suspicious in the first place when the idiot started spouting "insaaniyat" instead of "maanavata or maanav jaath" because a shankaracharya I persume is supposed to be competent in Sanskrit & once you know that you can speak Hindi without Farsi/Arabic.

Sanatana Dharma - Aka Hinduism (1st Bin) - Shambhu - 09-30-2007

QUOTE(Husky @ Sep 30 2007, 04:02 PM)Lying is not acceptable - definitely not in people we consider worthy of looking up to. Shambhu, though your willingness to assume good motives in people is laudable, it may work against you sometime. You have to have high expectations of Shankaracharyas, Gurus et al - as must everyone else. Else we'll end up with fakes.


I gave this fraud too much credit. <!--emo& Sad

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Sanatana Dharma - Aka Hinduism (1st Bin) - Guest - 10-01-2007

178 Bharatvarsh and 177 Husky.

That settles the matter. This gentleman is NOT the Shankaracharya of any of the main Adi mathas, or any of the other mathas attributed to Shankar. He is only a claimant not coronated.

I think the discussion is completely unnecessary about the contest for the Jyotirmath at Badrinath after the demise of its great spiritual leader Swami Bramhananda, who revived that Math after more than a century of discontinuation. I had once posted about him on this thread some time back.

This will suffice to know that this gentleman is NOT a Shankaracharya. I am not even sure that Mahesh Yogi would have anything to do in "appointing" or endorsing this person, or is competent to do so. The autority of appointing Shankaracharya lies with the presiding Shankaracharya of the Math, or in case of any dispute after his death, with the council of the Shankaracharya-s of the remaining Shankar Mathas.