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Lets talk about race in india - RomaIndian - 01-05-2010
I think 90% of indians are of the same stock (indic/caucasoid) belonging to the indid subgroups (northindid/indobrachid/grazilindid). The weddoid element in india is overestimadet in my opinion. I know of high castes (usually brahmins/jatts/kshatriyas) who think all low castes and especially southindians are weddoid but thats not true in my book. I think majority of indians are caucasian. Indians are Aryans (noble people) not the europeans and the aryan culture is native to the subcontinent, there was no aryan invasion theory, it is also false to say aryans have blonde hair and blue eyes and pale skin. Aryans have black hair and golden skin. There shouldnt be a divide in indians. Whats your opinion about race in india? And where do roma gypsies fit in racially?
deleted pictures...
Lets talk about race in india - Husky - 01-05-2010
Not on topic.
I have no authority on this forum. But for the sake of your own interests:
Please remove your pictures. And that of your family (did you ask their permission?) This is not facebook - some of the stuff on this forum is controversial (as in a mild variant of Danish Cartoon type). So this is not a forum to add pointers on "How to find me and my family".
Lets talk about race in india - RomaIndian - 01-05-2010
[quote name='Husky' date='05 January 2010 - 08:59 AM' timestamp='1262677867' post='103349']
Not on topic.
I have no authority on this forum. But for the sake of your own interests:
Please remove your pictures. And that of your family (did you ask their permission?) This is not facebook - some of the stuff on this forum is controversial (as in a mild variant of Danish Cartoon type). So this is not a forum to add pointers on "How to find me and my family".
[/quote]
deleted!
Lets talk about race in india - G.Subramaniam - 01-06-2010
[quote name='RomaIndian' date='05 January 2010 - 12:04 PM' timestamp='1262672807' post='103345']
I think 90% of indians are of the same stock (indic/caucasoid) belonging to the indid subgroups (northindid/indobrachid/grazilindid). The weddoid element in india is overestimadet in my opinion. I know of high castes (usually brahmins/jatts/kshatriyas) who think all low castes and especially southindians are weddoid but thats not true in my book. I think majority of indians are caucasian. Indians are Aryans (noble people) not the europeans and the aryan culture is native to the subcontinent, there was no aryan invasion theory, it is also false to say aryans have blonde hair and blue eyes and pale skin. Aryans have black hair and golden skin. There shouldnt be a divide in indians. Whats your opinion about race in india? And where do roma gypsies fit in racially?
deleted pictures...
[/quote]
Race is not acceptable on this forum
We look more on DNA clades
The so-called caucasians are a sub-set of North west Indians
and the so-called orientals are a sub-set of North east Indians
Roma Gypsies are 80% of Y-Haplogroup H and about 35% of backward castes in India have H
My guess is some of the Gypsy tribes of North west India, migrated to Europe for whatever reason
In addition, thanks to rapes by Europeans, Gypsies are fairer than regular Indians
My advise is to dump Abrahamic religions that have oppressed your people for the last 1000 years
and mass convert back to Hinduism
The Hindu spokesman Rajan Zed is taking up the cause of Gypsies
The new Hindu immigrants to the west are of high IQ and socio-economic characteristics
and my advise is for Gypsies to take up the Hindu identity
A mass conversion to Hinduism will be mutually beneficial
The ceremony is called Shuddi ( purification from Abrahamic filth )
Gypsy numbers added to the advanced socio-economic profile of western Hindus
will be mutually beneficial
Lets talk about race in india - RomaIndian - 01-07-2010
[quote name='G.Subramaniam' date='06 January 2010 - 02:47 AM' timestamp='1262741951' post='103368']
Gypsy numbers added to the advanced socio-economic profile of western Hindus
will be mutually beneficial
[/quote]
I agree. I didnt performed a official ritual but i symphatize with hinduism and respect hindu culture and performed puja on diwali once
Lets talk about race in india - G.Subramaniam - 01-07-2010
[quote name='RomaIndian' date='07 January 2010 - 09:25 AM' timestamp='1262836038' post='103386']
I agree. I didnt performed a official ritual yet but i symphatize with hinduism and perform puja on diwali (only online because there is no hindu temple in my area). Vedic Hinduism is the purest religion. I would like to be a hindu missionary to convert all the gypsies to hinduism.
[/quote]
Contact Rajan Zed
and dump Jesus
Lets talk about race in india - Bharatvarsh2 - 01-11-2010
RomaIndian have you met any Hindus of Indian origin in Europe?
I am in Canada but have yet to come across any Roma or Sinti people here as they seem to mostly migrate internally within Europe.
Lets talk about race in india - RomaIndian - 01-11-2010
[quote name='Bharatvarsh2' date='11 January 2010 - 12:29 AM' timestamp='1263165689' post='103462']
RomaIndian have you met any Hindus of Indian origin in Europe?
I am in Canada but have yet to come across any Roma or Sinti people here as they seem to mostly migrate internally within Europe.
[/quote]
I never met settled Hindus in Europe only traders who come to sell their stuff at market but i dont know if they are hindus or sikhs or muslims.
Lets talk about race in india - kchandra - 01-14-2010
RomaIndian,
How organised are the Roma/Sinti in Europe?. I mean is there an umbrella group that sort of represents Gypsy folks in Europe or is it scattered. I mean having a single group is beneficial, and very effective in protecting your interests. And are there countries in Europe ( other than Romania? may be ) where Roma are large enough in numbers to play a relevant role in electoral politics?
Regds,
Krishna
Lets talk about race in india - RomaIndian - 01-15-2010
[quote name='Krishna' date='14 January 2010 - 06:10 PM' timestamp='1263488565' post='103512']
RomaIndian,
How organised are the Roma/Sinti in Europe?. I mean is there an umbrella group that sort of represents Gypsy folks in Europe or is it scattered. I mean having a single group is beneficial, and very effective in protecting your interests. And are there countries in Europe ( other than Romania? may be ) where Roma are large enough in numbers to play a relevant role in electoral politics?
Regds,
Krishna
[/quote]
There is the Romani World Congress who represents all the roma. But they cannot be voted for, they are not a political party but romas are divided into different roma parties and organizations in different countries. Im not sure about the Roma nubmers but i think bulgaria, macedonia, serbia are also many romas. in skopje (capital of macedonia) there is a roma district with a roma governor called shutka
here is a map
![[Image: Romani_population_average_estimate.png]](http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9f/Romani_population_average_estimate.png)
Lets talk about race in india - Husky - 01-16-2010
<Unrelated. Deleted>
Lets talk about race in india - kchandra - 01-17-2010
[quote name='RomaIndian' date='05 January 2010 - 12:04 PM' timestamp='1262672807' post='103345']
I think 90% of indians are of the same stock (indic/caucasoid) belonging to the indid subgroups (northindid/indobrachid/grazilindid). The weddoid element in india is overestimadet in my opinion. I know of high castes (usually brahmins/jatts/kshatriyas) who think all low castes and especially southindians are weddoid but thats not true in my book. I think majority of indians are caucasian. Indians are Aryans (noble people) not the europeans and the aryan culture is native to the subcontinent, there was no aryan invasion theory, it is also false to say aryans have blonde hair and blue eyes and pale skin. Aryans have black hair and golden skin. There shouldnt be a divide in indians. Whats your opinion about race in india? And where do roma gypsies fit in racially?
deleted pictures...
[/quote]
RomaIndian and others,
Since this topic is about race in India, i will revert back to posting on the topic race etc. and not on socio political issues of Roma. Anyway, to answer your very first post here. I have the following observations.
- That Indian populations have a great admixture of haplogroups ( DNA markers ) and phenotypes ( appearances )
- It is perfectly ok to analyse and study and look at how the haplogroups and phenotypes have interplayed and are present in the indian population from a purely academic perspective.
- It appears that by phenotype, broadly almost all Indians have sort of the same look ( and feel !? ) irrespective of what haplogroup they belong to. Of course there are broad variations when we go from north to south and east to west etc. ( But are not these variations present in any continent size land mass? )
However i perfectly agree, with you that, none of these haplogroup and race discussions should divide Indians and for all practical purposes we Indians are a race by ourselves. And culturally as well, we cluster with ourselves so to speak.
Btw, what are the real difference between Roma and Sinti. From a purely DNA perspective Sinti are predominantly R2 and Roma are mostly H (?). Does this by any chance vaguely point to some division among Roma when they left India. Or could it be due to pure chance and founder effect that R2 in Sinti dominates, as they split from Roma due to geographical seperation. In other words, Sinti were from a different source group in India and Roma from a different source group.
Regds,
Krishna
Lets talk about race in india - RomaIndian - 01-17-2010
[quote name='Krishna' date='16 January 2010 - 08:01 PM' timestamp='1263668020' post='103540']
RomaIndian
Btw, what are the real difference between Roma and Sinti. From a purely DNA perspective Sinti are predominantly R2 and Roma are mostly H (?). Does this by any chance vaguely point to some division among Roma when they left India. Or could it be due to pure chance and founder effect that R2 in Sinti dominates, as they split from Roma due to geographical seperation. In other words, Sinti were from a different source group in India and Roma from a different source group.
Regds,
Krishna
[/quote]
I think they evovled from a single group but split into subisolates, genetic evidence indicates that
The 8ââ¬â10 million European Roma/Gypsies are a founder population of common origins that has subsequently split into multiple socially divergent and geographically dispersed Gypsy groups. Unlike other founder populations, whose genealogy has been extensively documented, the demographic history of the Gypsies is not fully understood and, given the lack of written records, has to be inferred from current genetic data. In this study, we have used five disease loci harboring private Gypsy mutations to examine some missing historical parameters and current structure. We analyzed the frequency distribution of the five mutations in 832ââ¬â1,363 unrelated controls, representing 14 Gypsy populations, and the diversification of chromosomal haplotypes in 501 members of affected families. Sharing of mutations and high carrier rates supported a strong founder effect, and the identity of the congenital myasthenia 1267delG mutation in Gypsy and Indian/Pakistani chromosomes provided the best evidence yet of the Indian origins of the Gypsies. However, dramatic differences in mutation frequencies and haplotype divergence and very limited haplotype sharing pointed to strong internal differentiation and characterized the Gypsies as a founder population comprising multiple subisolates. Using disease haplotype coalescence times at the different loci, we estimated that the entire Gypsy population was founded ~32ââ¬â40 generations ago, with secondary and tertiary founder events occurring ~16ââ¬â25 generations ago. The existence of multiple subisolates, with endogamy maintained to the present day, suggests a general approach to complex disorders in which initial gene mapping could be performed in large families from a single Gypsy group, whereas fine mapping would rely on the informed sampling of the divergent subisolates and searching for the shared genomic region that displays the strongest linkage disequilibrium with the disease.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1182047/
Lets talk about race in india - RomaIndian - 01-19-2010
I got racially classified often by europeans and they saw indid influence in me, but i would like to get classified by indians because they know better but i didnt found a indian anthropology forum so i try here in hope somebody has a clue, here seems to be people who have knowledge about races in india. Where in india i could fit? What caste, what region etc... and what would be my subrace?
please dont quote the pics i will delete them later
thanks for the replies
Lets talk about race in india - dhu - 01-19-2010
you look very sindhi. you really should remove your pictures as husky said before.
Lets talk about race in india - kchandra - 01-19-2010
I would say, you look like:
- Sindhi or a Punjabi.
Definitely not like a south Indian or Bengali!. Perhaps you could pass off as south Kashmiri as well.
You look vaguely similar to a a couple of folks i knew before, a Gupta from Jammu, he looked exactly like you. The other guy was also a Gupta from Punjab, he looked similar to you, except he was a little darker. ( I think both were natives from Jammu and Punjab and not migrated from elsewhere in India ( though I am not sure, if Gupta's could be native to Punjab and Jammu )
Lets talk about race in india - kchandra - 01-19-2010
I could be wrong about you not looking like a Bengali. Perhaps, i should say, typical Bengalis may not look like you, but here is one that seems to have some similarity with you <img src='http://www.india-forum.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='
' /> .Bappi Lahiri ( a bengali singer, and in this picture, he is much older than you are i think ) here:
![[Image: 2005100600480101.jpg]](http://www.hindu.com/mp/2005/10/06/images/2005100600480101.jpg)
Lets talk about race in india - RomaIndian - 01-20-2010
thanks guys for the replies, i removed my pics now. thanks again.
Lets talk about race in india - HareKrishna - 01-20-2010
[quote name='RomaIndian' date='20 January 2010 - 08:28 AM' timestamp='1263955838' post='103611']
thanks guys for the replies, i removed my pics now. thanks again.
[/quote]
Your forehead doesn't seem too indian ,more likely euro-mediteranean which suggest me that you are of mixed ancestry.
You have some similarites whit Maharaja Suraj and Tipu sultan
http://rajasthanjatmahasabha.com/images/413px-Maharaja_Surajmal.jpg
http://www.thehindu.com/thehindu/mp/2003/05/01/images/2003050100660101.jpg
Lets talk about race in india - RomaIndian - 01-20-2010
[quote name='HareKrishna' date='20 January 2010 - 08:05 AM' timestamp='1263970660' post='103616']
Your forehead doesn't seem too indian ,more likely euro-mediteranean which suggest me that you are of mixed ancestry.
You have some similarites whit Maharaja Suraj and Tipu sultan
http://rajasthanjatmahasabha.com/images/413px-Maharaja_Surajmal.jpg
http://www.thehindu.com/thehindu/mp/2003/05/01/images/2003050100660101.jpg
[/quote]
Yes im indeed of mixed ancestry. My father is 1/4 roma and 3/4 serbian. My mother is 1/8 russian and rest roma. Im however more than half roma 9/16. So i guess the indian phenotype prevails. I dont pass as european to the locals they ask me "where im from"