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Niti (chanakya, Vidura, Bhartr^ihari, ...) - Bodhi - 05-02-2008

asantuSTa dvijA naSTAH saMtuSTashcha mahIbhR^itAH
salajjA gaNikA nirlajjAshchakulA~nganA

insatiable brahmins are ruined, so also stoic kshatriya-s
like the bashful courtesan and the shameless lady of a good family

(chANakya-nIti-darpaNaH 8.18)

Niti (chanakya, Vidura, Bhartr^ihari, ...) - Bodhi - 05-03-2008

yasmindeshe na saMmAno na vR^ittir na cha bAndhavAH
na cha vidyAgamaH kashchit taM deshaM parivarjayet (8)
dhanikaH shrotriyo rAjA nadI vaidyas tu panchamaH
pancha yatra na vidyante na tatra divasaM vaset (9)

in a country where honour, employment and relatives are not there
and also learning is not accessible, abandon such country

prosperous, knowers of veda, a king, river, and fifth the doctors
where these five are not present, spend not a day there

(chANakya-nIti-darpaNAH 1.8 and 9; also found in vR^iddha chANakya)

Niti (chanakya, Vidura, Bhartr^ihari, ...) - Bodhi - 05-06-2008

na vishvAset kumitre cha mitre chApi na vishvAset
kadAchit kupitaM mitraM sarvaM guhyaM prakAshayet || 6
manasA chintitaM kAryaM vAchA naiva prakAshayet
mantreNa rakshayed gUDhyaM kArye chApi niyojayet || 7

don't trust the unfriendly; but even in friends don't place the (whole) trust
for, if friends get offended at times, all the secrets would get compromised
the objective being contemplated mentally, should never be revealed in speech
the deepest secrets must be guarded even from the counsellors engaged in that enterprise

(chANakya-nIti-darpaNAH 2.6 and 2.7)

Ashok ji, is the above translation correct?

Niti (chanakya, Vidura, Bhartr^ihari, ...) - Bodhi - 05-09-2008

eko devaH keshavo vA shivo vA
hi ekaM mitraM bhUpatir vA yatir vA
eko vAsaH pattane vA vane vA
hi ekA bhAryA sundarI vA darI vA

(pick) one (iShTa-) deva - be it keshava or shiva
(find) one (true) friend - (irrespective of him being) a king or an ascetic
(make) a dwelling - in town, or (maybe) in forest
(get just) one wife - be she beautiful, or a poor lady

bhartR^ihari nIti shatakaM 69

Niti (chanakya, Vidura, Bhartr^ihari, ...) - Guest - 05-11-2008

<!--QuoteBegin-Bodhi+May 6 2008, 04:24 PM-->QUOTE(Bodhi @ May 6 2008, 04:24 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->na vishvAset kumitre cha mitre chApi na vishvAset
kadAchit kupitaM mitraM sarvaM guhyaM prakAshayet || 6
manasA chintitaM kAryaM vAchA naiva prakAshayet
mantreNa rakshayed gUDhyaM kArye chApi niyojayet || 7

don't trust the unfriendly; but even in friends don't place the (whole) trust
for, if friends get offended at times, all the secrets would get compromised
the objective being contemplated mentally, should never be revealed in speech
the deepest secrets must be guarded even from the counsellors engaged in that enterprise

(chANakya-nIti-darpaNAH 2.6 and 2.7)

Ashok ji, is the above translation correct?
[right][snapback]81289[/snapback][/right]
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Bodhiji,

It could literally mean that the information worthy of protection or secrecy ("gUDhyam"), should be protected by a mantra. Just as ritually mantras are recited for protection.

But if we use the word "mantra" in the sense of a "code-word" then, "mantreNa rakshayed guDhyaM, kArye chApi niyojayet" could mean that even when applied to the work, the intended purpose should be protected using code language.

"mantreNa" has the tR^itIyA vibhakti, so it means "by the mantra" or by the code-word. If a mantrI or counsellor was meant it would have been "mantriNA" in the singular.

Niti (chanakya, Vidura, Bhartr^ihari, ...) - Bodhi - 05-20-2008

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->"mantreNa" has the tR^itIyA vibhakti, so it means "by the mantra" or by the code-word. If a mantrI or counsellor was meant it would have been "mantriNA" in the singular.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Ashok Ji, that is right, "mantreNa" is the karaNa vibhakti of 'mantra' and not a plural form of 'mantrI' in kartA vibhakti. So:

the objective decided mentally, should never be revealed in speech
by wise counsil (or by code words), guard the deepest secrets while determined in the enterprise

=========

more about which places to avoid:

lokayAtrA bhayaM lajjA dakshiNyAM tyAgashIlatA
pa~ncha yatra na vidyante na kuryAt tatra saMsthitiM

lokayAtrA(=?), fear (of authority), shame (for loss of honour), (tendency of) donation, and (natural disposition of) renouncing -
where these 5 attibutes are not found (in local people), make not a residence there

(chANakya-nIti-darpaNAH 1.10)

appears that he is describing the most places of urban India of our times...

what does the first term loka-yAtrA mean here?

Niti (chanakya, Vidura, Bhartr^ihari, ...) - Bodhi - 05-24-2008

nAtyantaM saralair bhAvyAM gatvA pashyA vanasthalIM
chidyante sralAstatra kubjAstiShThanti pAdapAH

do not be extremely straight and simple; (if you) go to forests (you would) see -
it is the straight trees which get chopped down, while crooked ones are left alone
(chANakya-nIti-darpaNAH 7.12)

pAdabhyAM na sparshedagniM guruM brAhmaNAM evacha
naiva gAM na kumArIMcha navR^iddhaM na shishuM tathA

never ever touch these by your feet (thereby insulting them): fire, guru, brAhmaNa-s,
also nor the cows and virgin girls, elderly and the infants

(chANakya-nIti-darpaNAH 7.6)

Niti (chanakya, Vidura, Bhartr^ihari, ...) - Bodhi - 06-09-2008

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->failure of Hindu cultural vision had serious consequences. Hindus failed to organise a collective effort to guard the frontiers of Bharatavarsha. Hindu princes in the interior did not rally round Raja Dahir when Muhammad bin Qasim violated the sacred soil of Sindh. They made some better effort when the Hindu Shahiyas of Udbhandapur were challenged by Subuktigin. But the effort fizzled out before long, because very few of them had their heart in it.

<b>Hindu princes by now had taken a deep dose of Kautalya's Arthashãstra</b> which, along with Vatsyayana?s Kãmasûtra, had become a prime part of their political education. <b>In this sterile statecraft, centred on the politics of the maNDalayoni, one's neighbour was always an enemy, and the enemy of an enemy always a friend! Hindu princes, therefore, failed to hang together in the face of a common calamity. In the event, they were hanged separately.</b> 

http://voiceofdharma.org/books/siii/ch9.htm<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Shri Sita Ram Goel, in analyzing the root causes of the failure of the Hindu in raising a cohesive and sustainable resistance when Islam invaded, also lays blame on the nIti preached by chANakya. Parking it here, so that we may analyze this later.

Niti (chanakya, Vidura, Bhartr^ihari, ...) - ramana - 06-09-2008

In Telugu there are similar more accesible nitis like Badde niti, Vemana shatakam. The Rayas of vijayanagara used to have the Baddeniti recited everyday to remind them of their duties.

Bodhi, I dont agree that it was the mandala doctrine that caused the problems. In the South Indian Viajyanagar was able to form its Empire with the consent of the other states. I submit the blind appliaction of the doctrine without considering the nature of the challengers was the root cause. By that what I mean is that a king or prince would seek the help of a outside Islamic ruler to gain over his neighbors for he considered the Islamic king, another king just like himself. He didnt understand the doctrine of Islamism which seeks to extend dar-ul-Islam even at his cost.

Niti (chanakya, Vidura, Bhartr^ihari, ...) - Bodhi - 06-09-2008

yes Ramana. something worth exploring.

Niti (chanakya, Vidura, Bhartr^ihari, ...) - ramana - 06-10-2008

Badde niti is also called "Sumati Shatakam" as every stanza ends with Sumati.

Niti (chanakya, Vidura, Bhartr^ihari, ...) - Bodhi - 06-12-2008

lAlayet pa~ncha-varShANi dasha-varShANi tADayet |
prApte tu Shodashe-varShe putre mitravat Acharet ||

fondle him till he is five, beat him for another ten
once he reaches 16, treat your son as friend

Niti (chanakya, Vidura, Bhartr^ihari, ...) - Bodhi - 06-20-2008

sukule yojayet kanyAM putrAM vidyAsu yojayet |
vyasane yojayet shatruM mitraM dharme niyojayet ||3.3

(make sure to -)
send duaghters to good families
sons to good schools
enemies to good grief,
and, friends on path of dharma

(chANakya-nIti-darpaNAH 3.3)

Niti (chanakya, Vidura, Bhartr^ihari, ...) - Guest - 06-20-2008

<!--QuoteBegin-Bodhi+Jun 20 2008, 07:53 PM-->QUOTE(Bodhi @ Jun 20 2008, 07:53 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->sukule yojayet kanyAM putrAM vidyAsu yojayet |
vyasane yojayet shatruM mitraM dharme niyojayet ||3.3
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Thanks a lot for posting these regularly!

A minor point: "vyasana" is a bad habit like drinking or gambling.


Niti (chanakya, Vidura, Bhartr^ihari, ...) - Bodhi - 06-20-2008

Ashok Ji, what you say about 'vyasana' is absolutely correct. However I have also seen 'vyasana' used for calamity/hard-time (as in vipatti) at many places too. In the context of this aphorism, "vyasane yojayet shatruM": either meanings might appear appropriate - a) engage enemy in addictions, b) make enemy come to calamities/grief. However I thought the latter made more sense.

Niti (chanakya, Vidura, Bhartr^ihari, ...) - Guest - 06-20-2008

Bodhiji, sure. Addictions lead to grief anyway. It just appears more "kuTila" when one talks of getting one's enemies trapped in addictions, thats all. <!--emo&Smile--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->

Niti (chanakya, Vidura, Bhartr^ihari, ...) - Bodhi - 07-11-2008

x-post

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Kautilya's sagely advice to Chandragupta on the Mauryan Soldier: "If ever things come to a sordid pass when, on a given day, the Mauryan soldier has to LOOK BACK over his shoulder (simhawalokana) prompted by even a single worry about his and his family's material, physical  and social well being, it should cause you and your Council the greatest concern and distress. I beseech you to take instant note and act with uncommon dispatch to address the soldier's anxiety. It is my bounden duty to assure you, My Lord that the day when the Mauryan soldier has to demand his dues or, worse, plead for them, will neither have arrived overnight nor in vain. It will also bode ill for Magadha. For then, on that day, you, My Lord, you will have lost all moral sanction to be King! It will also be the beginning of the end of the Mauryan Empire!"
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Niti (chanakya, Vidura, Bhartr^ihari, ...) - Bodhi - 08-17-2008

vitte tyAgaH kshamA shaktau duHkhe dainyavihInatAM |
nirdambhatA sadAchAre swabhAyoyaM mahAtmanAM ||

in wealth donating, in strength pardoning, devoid of misery even in sorrow, and boastless while acting virtuously.
such happens to be the disposition of great souls

(subhAShitAvaliH 265)

Niti (chanakya, Vidura, Bhartr^ihari, ...) - Bodhi - 09-21-2008

dAnaM bhogo nAshastistrI gatayo bhavanti vittasya
yo na dadAti na bhu~Nkte tasya tR^itIyA gatirbhavati

donation, consumption, destruction: in only three ways the wealth is disposed
who neither donates nor enjoys, his goes by the third way

(several; VCsouth 3.86)

Niti (chanakya, Vidura, Bhartr^ihari, ...) - Bodhi - 11-16-2008

kAvyena hantaye shAstraM kAvyaM gItena hantaye
gIta~ncha strI-vilAsena strI-vilAso bubhukShayA

poetry kills the shAstra as the song spoils the poem
song is destroyed by strI-vilAsa and that by the hunger

(unknown)