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Historicity of Jesus - 2 - Printable Version
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Historicity of Jesus - 2 - Printable Version

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Historicity of Jesus - 2 - ramana - 04-20-2012

Robert M. Price, "The Christ-Myth Theory and Its Problems"

ISBN: 1578840171 | 2011 | 427 pages |



Quote:When, long ago, I first learned that some theorized that Jesus had never existed as an historical figure, I dismissed the notion as mere crankism, as most still do. Indeed, Rudolf Bultmann, supposedly the arch-skeptic, quipped that no sane person could doubt that Jesus existed (though he himself came surprisingly close to the same opinion, as did Paul Tillich). For a number of years I held a more or less Bultmannian estimate of the historical Jesus as a prophet heralding the arrival of the eschatological Kingdom of God, an end to which his parables, faith healings and exorcisms were directed. Jesus had, I thought, predicted the coming of the Son of Man, an angelic figure who should raise the dead and judge mankind. When his cleansing of the temple invited the unforgiving ire of the Sadducee establishment, in cahoots with the Romans, he sealed his own doom. He died by crucifixion, and a few days later his disciples began experiencing visions of him raised from the dead. They concluded that he himself was now to be considered the Son of Man, and they expected his messianic advent in the near future.



Historicity of Jesus - 2 - dhu - 05-05-2012

“If Christ means anything to me,” said Jung, “it is only as a symbol…I do not find the historical Jesus edifying at all, merely interesting because controversial.”[61] Jung believed that “the Christ-symbol lacks wholeness in the modern psychological sense, since it does not include the dark side of things…”[62] For Jung, it was regrettable that Christ in his goodness lacked a shadow side, and God the Father, who is the Light, lacked darkness.[63] Jung sought a solution to this dilemma in the Holy Spirit who allegedly united the split in the moral opposites symbolized by Christ and Satan.[64] “Looked at from a quaternary standpoint”, writes Jung, “the Holy Ghost is a reconciliation of opposites and hence the answer to the suffering in the Godhead which Christ personifies.”[65] Jung believed that Satan and Jesus, as spiritual opposites, were gnostically reconciled through the Holy Spirit. “It is possible”, said Jung, “for a man to attain totality, to become whole, only with the co-operation of the spirit of darkness…”[66]



[url="http://edhird.wordpress.com/tag/buddha/"]link[/url]


Historicity of Jesus - 2 - ramana - 05-12-2012

Tom Holmn, "Jesus from Judaism to Christianity: Continuum Approaches to the Historical Jesus"

English | ISBN: 0567042146 | 2007 | 192 pages |



Quote:One of the characteristic pursuits of the current phase of historical Jesus research, the so-called Third Quest, has been the serious attempt to locate Jesus within first-century CE Judaism, to seek a Jesus who could be found plausible within his Jewish context. Comparatively less emphasis has been laid on the question as to whether or how the contextually plausible picture of Jesus also suits and accounts for the history of the reception of Jesus in early Christianity.



By integrating the Jewish context, the teaching of Jesus and Christian reception history into one explanation, the continuum perspective seeks to reveal a Jesus who would both be fitting within his Jewish context and would also help to explain and understand early Christian stances. Thus, according to this perspective, a historically plausible picture of Jesus is one that can be placed in the Judaism-Christianity continuum.



Historicity of Jesus - 2 - ramana - 05-14-2012

Dhu, They are working hard to reconcile the gaps in the narrative!





"Synchronized Chronology: Rethinking Middle East Antiquity" by Roger Henry

A Simple Correction To Egyptian Chronology Resolves The Major Problems In Biblical And Greek Archaeology

Algora Publishing | 2003 | ISBN: 087586192X 9780875861852 0875861911 9780875861913 | 265 pages |





Quote:The Synchronized Chronology resolves the structural problems of Egyptian chronology and then outlines the correct history of the Middle East and Mediterranean time of Abraham and his wandering into the Empire of Alexander the Great. Recognizing some overlapping of dates and names in Manetho's List of Kings, frees history to place pharaohs and dynasties where archaeology supports their existence. This resolves a myriad of discrepancies and unlikely assumptions that historians have been forced to swallow, and neatly opens the way to synchronizing Egyptian dynasties with Biblical chronology.





TABLE OF CONTENTS

PREFACE

1. WHAT’S WRONG WITH THIS CHRONOLOGY?

THE OBJECTIVE

THE SOLUTION

THE KEY TO THE SYNCHRONISMS

2. FOUNDATIONS OF CONVENTIONAL CHRONOLOGY

MANETHO

BIBLICAL CHRONOLOGY

THE STARTING POINT

3. THE EXODUS AND THE END OF THE MIDDLE KINGDOM OF EGYPT

THE MOST IMPORTANT SYNCHRONISM

THE PAPYRUS IPUWER

THE EL ARISH SHRINE

THE ERMITAGE PAPYRUS

THE INVASION

THE AMALEKITES

THE DEFEAT OF THE HYKSOS/AMALEKITES

4. THE CONQUEST AND THE TIME OF THE JUDGES

THE MIDDLE BRONZE AGE

THE BIBLICAL MIDDLE BRONZE AGE

THE CONQUEST OF CANAAN

ISRAELITE OCCUPATION OF PALESTINE

JERICHO

SHECHEM

ABRAHAM AND THE AMORITE MIGRATION

THE ORIGIN OF THE ALPHABET

5. THE 18TH DYNASTY AND THE UNITED KINGDOM

THE UNITED KINGDOM

THE THEBAN DYNASTY

QUEEN SHEBA

6. THE WARS OF EGYPT AND ISRAEL

SOLOMON’S PUNISHMENT

ASA BATTLES AMENHOTEP II

THE MITANNI, THE KHURRIANS, AND THE RISE OF ASSYRIA

7. ISRAEL AND DAMASCUS AT WAR PART 1 OF THE TELL EL-AMARNA LETTERS

JEHOSAPHAT’S CAPTAINS

THE MESHA STELE

8. JERUSALEM IN THE TIME OF AKHNATON PART 2 OF THE TELL EL AMARNA

LETTERS

JERUSALEM

IVORY

AKHNATON

9. THE END OF THE BRONZE AGE

MANETHO

ITALY

ROME

SICILY

SPAIN

TROY

THE END OF THE BRONZE AGE

EARTHQUAKES

MIGRATION

DROUGHT

POLITICAL COLLAPSE

WARFARE

IRON

10. NEW LIGHT ON THE GREEK DARK AGES

HOMER

OTHER PEOPLES OF ASIA MINOR

LITERACY

ARGOS

11. THE RISE OF ASSYRIA. PART 3 OF THE TELL EL AMARNA LETTERS

THE INTERNATIONAL SCENE

BABYLONIA

ASSYRIA

ANOTHER DARK AGE

SHALMANESER

SHALMANESER ATTACKS PHOENICIA

SHALMANESER’S SYRIAN WAR

THE KING OF HATTI

THE AGE OF THE AMARNA SCRIPT

MITANNI

12. SAMARIA AS A BENCHMARK FOR ARCHEOLOGY

ARCHAEOLOGY IN “CANAAN”

LOOKING FOR A BENCHMARK

THE LACHISH OSTRACA

MEGIDDO

13. THE THIRD INTERMEDIATE PERIOD IN EGYPT

THE CASE FOR SHOSHENQ AS SHISHAK

SHOSHENQ IN THE SYNCHRONIZED CHRONOLOGY

THE PHOENICIAN SCRIPT

SAMARIA AS THE BENCHMARK

ISRAEL

LIBYA WITH A DISTRACTED ASSYRIA

14. WHO WERE THE HITTITES?

THE ARCHIVE

A MIXED PEOPLE

HITTITE ORIGINS

THE KHIRBET KERAK PEOPLE

THE HATTI LANDS

GREEK REFERENCES TO HITTITES

THE CHALDEANS

THE URARTIANS

THE CIMMERIAN INVASION

THE TWO HITTITES

UR OF THE CHALDEAS

15. CHALDEAN ART

THE CONVENTIONAL ORDER

PHASE 1

PHASE 2

PHASE 3

EAST AND WEST HITTITE COMPARED

THE SCRIPT

MALATYA

PHRYGIA

THE CHALDEAN SECRET WRITING

A ROYAL “HITTITE” BURIAL IN CARCHEMISH

16. THE BATTLE OF CARCHMISH

PSAMATICH (SETI-PTAH-MAAT)

NECHO (RAMSES II)

JUDAH

THE BATTLE

THE OTHER SIDE

HOPHRA (MERNEPTAH HOTPHIRMAE)

THE ISRAEL STELE

17. RAMSES III AND HIS TIME

THE HISTORICAL SCENE

THE HARRIS PAPYRUS

THE EGYPTIAN RECORD

WHO ARE THE P-R-S-TT?

TELL EL YAHUDIYEH

THE NECROPOLIS

18. THE PEOPLE OF THE SEA

THE BATTLES

WHERE IS THE EGYPTIAN RECORD?

19. SUMMARY

BIBLIOGRAPHY



Historicity of Jesus - 2 - dhu - 05-16-2012

The biggest gap filling is in the realm of post-jungians where the writer and creative is assaulted and feminized and all types of anthropology dichotomies are overlaid.. Neocons have a big hand in it.



It doesn't matter, there is no return: Darth Vader after all did return back after his "conversion": And that is the dominant dynamic today quite convinced



An item I just chanced upon:



TheDevil_Heart‏@TheDevil_Heart

Was Khadija Christian?No one is sure.she exposed Mohd to relatives who were staunch Christians.where Muhammad obtained material fr hs Quran.


Historicity of Jesus - 2 - ramana - 05-17-2012

I did read somewhere Khadija was a Nestorian Christian ie not belonging to Nicean Compact.



Eg.



Quote:www.gnfcw.com/Muhammad.htm



After several successful journeys to Syria, Muhammad married Khadija in a Christian ceremony with the vows administered by Khadija's cousin, Waraqa bin



Wiki does not list her religion before Islam.



But very clear that Waraqa her cousin/uncle is a staunch Christian.


Historicity of Jesus - 2 - dhu - 05-17-2012

it is quite clear that Islam was a social engineering movement similar to Nazism than Communism. Jung likens Nazism to Islam. The initial Communistic rubric represented by Summaya bint Khayyat and the fleeing of the first martyrs to refuge in Christian Ethiopia was converted to the Nazi strain subsequently. This last conversion nativizes the rubric.

Summaya bint Kayyat means toxic d/o King: a direct attack upon the Kshayathriyata of Persia. The slave Bilal story was also part of this initial social engineering



I believe that Gandhi was typed incorrectly by Jung who worked for the OSS.

Gandhi must have been typed as a creative, which he was not. The creative when frustrated turns inwards and consumes itself. And this subsequently allows the creation of a nativized Nazi upon the scorched Earth. Gandhi did not consume himself as desried by the colonial but allowed the true native to finish him off. Thus India was saved. No Nazi shell could be implanted in India and only the communistic remained, stranded without issue



The Nestorian allowed infringement into Persia in guise of a nativized Church; subsequently the St Thomasians showed up: and finally the Radhanite forwards ushered in Islam itself.



Hitler was correctly typed, and like Saddam rebelled, but was brought to suicide after the plan was effected: martyrology was not needed in these cases. Thus martyrology is a second option in cases of type failure as with Gandhi.


Historicity of Jesus - 2 - ramana - 05-18-2012

Dhu, Very good summary. I want you to expand on some of the points so people can understand and think clearly what is being said. I will bold the areas that you need to elaborate on. Thanks, ramana



Quote:it is quite clear that Islam was a social engineering movement similar to Nazism than Communism. Jung likens Nazism to Islam. The initial Communistic rubric represented by Summaya bint Khayyat and the fleeing of the first martyrs to refuge in Christian Ethiopia was converted to the Nazi strain subsequently. This last conversion nativizes the rubric.



Summaya bint Kayyat means toxic d/o King :?: : a direct attack upon the Kshayathriyata of Persia. The slave Bilal story was also part of this initial social engineering



I believe that Gandhi was typed incorrectly by Jung who worked for the OSS. :?:

Gandhi must have been typed as a creative, which he was not. The creative when frustrated turns inwards and consumes itself. And this subsequently allows the creation of a nativized Nazi upon the scorched Earth.{Give examples} Gandhi did not consume himself as desried by the colonial but allowed the true native to finish him off. Thus India was saved. No Nazi shell could be implanted in India and only the communistic remained, stranded without issue. {Explain how Commies are intellectually stranded and how DIE is also part of this no connections to the roots.}



The Nestorian allowed infringement into Persia in guise of a nativized Church; subsequently the St Thomasians showed up: and finally the Radhanite:?: forwards ushered in Islam itself.



[i]{Brilliant. Also show it doesn't have to be one person or group pushing it. Ideas take on their own gravity and develop a following.}{/i]





Hitler was correctly typed, and like Saddam rebelled, but was brought to suicide after the plan was effected: martyrology was not needed in these cases. Thus martyrology is a second option in cases of type failure as with Gandhi.



Historicity of Jesus - 2 - ramana - 05-18-2012

If you read the back pages Hitler tried to create a new christianity in the image of Islam but still retaining Jesus. Thats the meaning of that old pdf that was posted pages ago.


Historicity of Jesus - 2 - dhu - 05-19-2012

Jung's inspired system was inadvertently preserved in those of his American state successors which have determined that 4 of the full permutation set of 4 characteristics are creative.

This forms the basis for both American selection of external sepoys and also patching of internal state stability via recruit of creatives

Jung located only 3 creatives because he used a set of 3 characteristics.

With the addition of the 4th is became possible to precisely locate the base creative.

I believe Jung decided on Gandhi based upon the only discerning criteria available to him at the time, Gandhi's nurse corps experience.

It is possible that Gandhi understood the design and thus selected Nehru over Bose: the least of the two evils, stranding the monotheist progression.

Onc ethe base cretaive is humiliated, the territory is converted from contested to uncontested, as Germany indeed was.



Jung's late visit to India revealed to him that his theories could not be extrapolated since creativity is cultural in india.



The base creative which is surely heathen is a natural in all societies. This is the greatest fear.

The barely verbalized hate that is felt by the systematists towards harry potter and edward cullen are because of this fear o fteh base creative. But with the latter, the base creative reagined khshayathiya, was remasculated, and was surrounded by kshatriya guards.


Historicity of Jesus - 2 - ramana - 05-19-2012

US model is Meyers-Briggs right?

Also please fix the spellings to ensure clarity.



Thanks to you for I didnt know about Jung's visit to India and study of MKG.


Historicity of Jesus - 2 - dhu - 05-19-2012

yes, that's right. there are problems with it though. will post the details in a while.


Historicity of Jesus - 2 - ramana - 05-19-2012

wow. You might have solved the reason for picking JLN over SCB


Historicity of Jesus - 2 - dhu - 05-19-2012

Bose was the same type as Saddam and Hitler, a creative.

Under extreme pressures, he would have been humiliated and in association the entirety of heathen nationalism.



Cut off from cultural level creativity, the personality, or shall we say the non-relational Self, emerges. But this emergence is only apparent, a mirage as much as the monotheist systemizing.

The introverted creative is the locus of shame, the shudra, undifferentiated with potential.

The extroverted creative is the locus of pride, the epic hero.

The two together form the basis of attraction.

With MBTI or in other words with monotheism, the introverted creative (which is relational at level of society) is deemed as regressive against an internalized ethical system that is Jesus, the principled. Simultaneously or as a result, the introverted creative (shame) becomes downgraded from a cultural-societal relational to personality with internalized "guilt" and pathology.

Anthropology is the endeavor to turn the introverted and extroverted creative classes into uncertain provenance (the brahmin-sudra two caste "periphery" "away from" the "center") or at least "dual castes" of mixed rather than additive power: the khatris, the Senas in Bengal.

I also believe that many of these creative castes were actually mediator castes, acceptable to all jatis: again, the sikhs and senas, possibly even marathas. In former times, saka (saket, sakaya )was the name of these mediator creative castes, accepted as so because of their Ikshvaku ancestry. The Haka(Saka)-Manishya of Persia are an overlay from interior India of precisely these creative elements, undifferentiated and represented of the whole body and recognized as so (the Khshayathiya, the Lord King). These were not mentioned in the dasarajana list of proper iranian tribes



Teh entire US system the Supervisor is designed, has emerged, to suppress this internal creative the writer, the heathen potential.


Historicity of Jesus - 2 - ramana - 05-19-2012

I thought JLN was an introvert creative too. Note the many 'reforms' forced down the 'heathen' Hindu throat. The entire DIE group is introverted creative that internalizes the issues.



I now understand the distance between the brahmin (scholar type) and the shudra (worker type) to ensure the creative types don't converge for society gets transformed.



Keep writing.


Historicity of Jesus - 2 - dhu - 05-20-2012

JLN was not a creative, IMO, but one of the concretized corners. He was a safe placeholder when alternate disasters were looming.

The creatives are the NPs even going by the late-dated US military research.

Of these 4, which correspond exactly to the varnas, the 2 which are F (feeling) are the more basic: these are Sudra (introverted potential) which is shame, and kshatriya (extroverted actuation) which is pride: the introverted potential may become ksahtriya ( the hero champion ) simply through extroverting: thus both Buddhism and jainism and all eastern concentration arts are valid domains of the kshatriya. Correspondingly, the aleination of these mental orders from khshathriyata is a monotehist project.

When the introverted potential does not project in the right direction but gets diverted to the S (sensory) half, then the Hitlers emerge; they are in fact mimicking the Supervisor Americans, the suppressors at teh extreme corner of S. But it invariably leads to disaster. And this is the bait.

Alternatively, it is possible that the Sudra is not really the introverted creative but rather the dual castes: the khatris, the Senas (Boses) in bengal; the shudra adventurists wwre relegated to criminal castes while extreme efforts were made to co-opt the duals khatris, and in fact a second saka invasion was proposed precisely for these sikhs. The kshatriyas had their civil elements and counterparts from which they emerged.



The division between heathens and monotheism is actually not even between those who "express" via perceptive versus judgemental statements: this is seen even with the heathens. it is actually the division between intuitives and sensory. And probably even this is an appearance artifact and even S falls within the heathen sprectrum. After all, Monotheism is a subset of Non-normativism, therefor it is indeed very likely a perception difference.



The Gupta vaishyas are fieldmarshals when taken to the extreme S corner become the Supervisor Americans.



teh introvetrted intuitives even today say that they feel shame which is sought to be rationalized as not an expression of eastern "shame culture" ( a relational with teh *environment* [not other]) but as an expression of their militating against an overdeveloped internal value/ethical system which is Jesus)



attraction is to pride and also to shame.



From Balagangadhara, we know that Brahmins are ritualists and their creativity is expressed through ritual: these were not the "leaders" of society, nor the "moral compass", nor the "priests". Nor mediators, nor 'counselors'.


Historicity of Jesus - 2 - dhu - 05-22-2012

The locus of honor is same as that of shame, within the base creative.

The kshatriya is any agent that expresses honor externally.

Personality is alienation from shame, honor, and the relational in general.


Historicity of Jesus - 2 - dhu - 06-01-2012

Creativity is posited in the cultural-level relational.

When assuming the role in a relational, creativity is seen simply due to the infinite permutations of circumstance - that is, creativity is only an appearance but it is a real appearance. The actor and agent is thus the relational itself and not any other.

This creativity is sought to be captured and reduced in "personality": the relational is deemed and damned as stereotypy; while the precipitated non-relational selfs (precipitated by contrast to the postulated Principle either in reaction or in "embodiment of") are repositories of will and, after secularization, of personality.

Jung's trangression was most severe in that he tried to enshrine (via affect of reconciliation) a diametrical opposition of the romantic to the rational within "Gnostic" wholeness. These were never 'wholesome" dichotomies in the heathen where the transformation from potential to actuation was always the "true dichotomy". The relational is not a dichotomy.


Historicity of Jesus - 2 - dhu - 06-02-2012

The materialist-spiritual dichotomy manifests at the level of personality when the cultural-level relational is stereotypied.


Historicity of Jesus - 2 - ramana - 06-02-2012

dhu, You need to slow down and talk in commons language. We need to carry them along.