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HEC2007 Distorted History - Guest - 09-08-2007

Call for papers

HEC2007 Distorted History - Guest - 09-11-2007

SEMINAR: Youth Experiences with Hinduphobia and its Remediation

Dear Friends,
      You are cordially invited to participate in the Seminar titled  "Youth Experiences with Hinduphobia and its Remediation" to be held in  Dallas, TX, from Friday, October 12th until Sunday, 14th, 2007. A call for participation is attached with this communique.

      The purpose of the seminar is to record experiences with Hinduphobia with a special focus on how the Hindu youth perceive it. This is one of the follow-up activities to the recent publication of an unprecedented book on Hinduphobia, viz. 'Invading the Sacred' authored by  Krishnan Ramaswamy, Antonio de Nicolas and Aditi Banerjee ( ref. - http://invadingthes ). The challenge now is to validate, with factual data, the connectivity between hinduphobia in the academia and its actual impact on the socio-economic well-being of the Hindus. We will specially focus on impact of Hinduphobia on cultural self-esteem of Hindu youth in their most formative years.

      You may kindly consider helping a Hindu youth compile his/her experience with Hinduphobia, and bring in to the conference for presentation. There are multiple cash awards sponsored by the Infinity Foundation for a well written Hinduphobic accounts. Hinduphobic accounts are most welcome from participants other than youth, though only the latter are eligible for the cash awards.

        Even though the current exercise is U.S. centric, it is equally  relevant to almost every country where Hindus live. Therefore, those located outside of the U.S. will add equal value to the seminar proceedings by having a Hindu youth submit his/her own account of  Hinduphobia. We will ensure that all submissions are given due  consideration.

      If we can answer any of your questions, feel free to call Mr.  Bhagwan Reddy, Session Coordinator, at +1 214-906-3958, or reply to this  e-mail.
We look forward to your response.
Sincerely yours,
Rajiv Malhotra
Infinity Foundation
Shruti Foundation
New Delhi, India
Session Co-chairs
Bhagwan Reddy
Sanatana Dharma Foundation
Dallas , TX, USA
Session Coordinator
Call for Papers and Participation
In a Seminar and a Workshop on
"Youth Experiences with Hinduphobia
And Its Remediation"

Papers can be sent to:
Bhagwan Reddy
Session Coordinator
E-mail: [ hinduphobia DASH seminar AT heconf DOT com ]
Tel: +1 214-906-3958
Deadline for submission: October 7th, 2007

Recently a new compilation on Hindubhobia in U.S . academia was released, edited by Drs. Krishnan Ramaswamy and Antonia de Nicolas, and Aditi Banerjee, Esq. (online reference: ). The comprehensive volume documents biases against Hinduism in U.S. Academia that have been institutionalized and made respectable by years of endorsements and participation by mainstream scholars. The authors have diligently established that the biases in the academia, often lead to prejudice against Hinduism and Hindus among the general population, which ultimately results in oppression and violence.

Statement of Purpose
The purpose of the session is to share evidence of Hinduphobia primarily among the youth using their experiences as empirical data.
Themes for Submission
There will be three kinds of themes available to a given participant, as follows:
(a) Write a personal account of having faced Hinduphobia in school, social circle, media, casual conversation, or anywhere else, either directly or a friend/relative who is too afraid to speak up on their own; this includes negative stereotypes, biases, etc. explain what happened and what harm it did, and why it's unfair,
(b) write a review of the book, Invading the Sacred, by focusing on any one of its sections and summarizing it in their own words in under 10 pages, giving reviewer's comments as well, and
© Critique some third party Hinduphobia literature. An illustrative list of Hinduphobic literature is given later in this document.
Hinduphobia Remediation Workshop
The presentations will be followed by an invitation-only Hinduphobia Remediation Workshop. The purpose of the workshop will be to take qualified participants into the causes of Hinduphobia, its consequences and some tools that can be deployed to remediate Hinduphobia at various levels. Selection of workshop participants will be based on the strength of their seminar presentation, and their commitment to address the issue of Hinduphobia.

Cash Award
There is a cash award, in the amount of $100 each, for a selected number of submissions based on a qualifying criteria.
Hinduphobic Literature

The following list though not exhaustive, includes examples of recent Hinduphobic literature:
Ramakrishna - a bit of booby:
[Example of claim: "Ramakrishna was a homoerotic pedophile." "His
chief disciple, Vivekananda, visited brothels in India."]

Vivekananda - the handsome duckling:

Aurobindo - Mother Dearest:

J. Krishnamurti - The Krinsh:

Dalai Lama - "Hello Dalai":

Swami Satchitananda - Sex, Bliss and Rock 'n' Roll:

Maharishi Mahesh Yogi - The Sixth Beatle:

Satya Sai Baba -- Scorpion Man:

Swami Rama:

Yogi Bhajan - Cockroach Yoga:


Yogi Amrit Desai - Up the Asana:

Parmananda Yogananda - To a Nunnery:

Time lines and Contacts:
Submission deadline:                              October 7th, 2007
Date of conference:                              October 12th – 14th, 2007
Session Chair: Session Co-chair:
Mr. Rajiv Malhotra,
Infinity Foundation
Ms. Shruti
Shruti Foundation
Delhi, India

Session Coordinator:
Mr. Bhagwan Reddy
E-mail:  [ hinduphobia DASH seminar AT heconf DOT com ]
Tel: +1 214-906-3958 (U.S. Central Time Zone)

The following are expected from seminar participants:
a. an abstract or synopsis of your paper (with a title)
b. a brief bio-sketch with a front-facing digital picture
c. full paper (any length)
d. PowerPoint presentation (optional) (needed if presenting in person at the conference)
Future Prospect
Depending on a qualifying criterion, the papers received for this seminar can potentially be utilized in a follow-up volume to "Invading the Sacred"
The seminar is being sponsored by Sanatana Dharma Foundation, Dallas, TX (ref. – ), in cooperation with the New Jersey based Infinity Foundation (ref. - ).

HEC2007 Distorted History - Shambhu - 09-11-2007

Suggestion (if not already in the works)

A short series of quotes from Wendy Doniger's books (which should be in "Invading the Sacred" itself) can be put up as big bold font laminated printouts.
Low cost, so many copies can be made..and put up at all convenient locations within the venue. Xtra printouts to be used as flyers. Mention source of quotes (W Doniger O'Flaherty, Book, pp. .. etc)!

The more people see (in 3-4 seconds) what people like Wendy are writing, the better. You will notice my emphasis on quantity, not quality of the production. Short, bullet point cards and flyers have to be one major part of any anti-Hindu remediation. Let people know. And then some more. And things will happen.

(At least that is what I have always seen)...

HEC2007 Distorted History - Guest - 09-19-2007

Here is something akin to Hinduphobia:

The Hindu Art of Self Hate

By: Shachi Rairikar
January 22, 2005
(The author is a Chartered Accountant working in a software company in Indore, MP, India and manage

The Hindu talent for self-condemnation does not find a parallel anywhere in the world. The art of self-hate is what the Hindus have mastered in during the latter half of the last century. The politicians, media, so-called secularists, intellectuals, human-rights activists who never tire condemning Hindus are themselves Hindus. The greatest enemies of the Hindus today are the Hindus themselves.

Understanding the Hindu mind is not difficult. Let us try and analyse our mentality - the Hindu mentality. Whenever there is a problem with some other community, which is harming the Hindus, how do we address the problem? We have two options – we acknowledge the problem and take action for its resolution or we do not acknowledge the problem. What if we acknowledge this problem? – We will have to take steps to resolve it, interact with the other community in question; there might be confrontation and agitation; we will have to “fight”. What if we do not acknowledge the problem at all. Nothing happens – no confrontation, no agitation, no “fight”. The adverse effects of the problem can be tolerated – after all, it is easier to tolerate than to fight. What if grave consequences will have to be faced in the years to come? At the moment we are comfortable with few adjustments and compromises, so why worry about the future? Who cares if to make today more comfortable we make tomorrow bleak?

How do we address the problem then? The easier course of actions is to blame our own people for being communal, narrow-minded fundamentalists. After all, it is much easier to confront the Hindus as they are less aggressive and less violent. Fighting the real enemy would require a lot of courage so we choose to make the enemy look saintly and turn against our own people. We find faults with our own people rather than addressing those who are actually at the crux of the problem. So our politicians, media and the so called secularists and intellectuals call the Hindus communal and fundamentalists, responsible for rioting but never have the courage to criticize the Jehadi terrorists; and the human rights activists agitate for the human rights of the terrorists, never caring for the human rights of the victims of terrorism.

So we don’t acknowledge that the rising Muslim population is a threat to the integrity of our country and to the very existence of the Hindu civilization. What if we have faced a vivisection of our Motherland when the Muslim population became one third of the country’s population? What if the only Muslim majority state Kashmir saw the driving away of the Hindu minority from their homeland? That is history and we Hindus have an excellent record of not learning anything from history. Even though the current trends and figures clearly reveal that we are heading towards a second partition, our intellectuals and media refuse to acknowledge this. Instead, they are criticizing our people who conducted demographic studies on the basis of religion. They find census figures on the basis of religion completely irrelevant and uncalled for in a “secular” country like India. The larger threat facing the country becomes a non-issue whereas whether religious demographics should be studied as a principle or the technical errors like the publication of wrong data on the first day become the issue. The idea is to take the attention away from the larger issues and focus on the non-issues, so that we don’t have to address the real issues. To address the real issue we will need to talk to our Muslim community, persuade them to go against Islam and practise family

HEC2007 Distorted History - ramana - 10-01-2007

Sulekha Blog on Rama and Krishna

Its about antiquity of Hindu civilization to 20000 BC. This was a point that Kaushal made at the combined mtg in Milpitas.

HEC2007 Distorted History - Shambhu - 10-01-2007

<!--emo&:rock--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/rock.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='rock.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Above Sulekha article:

Awesome! I have bookmarked it (and will read the links in it one by one) ...

May a thousand such articles etc come out and hammer the coffin shut on Romila Thapar and co. ... <!--emo&:guitar--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/guitar.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='guitar.gif' /><!--endemo-->

HEC2007 Distorted History - ramana - 10-02-2007

Two books in Telugu and one in Hindi

Sri Kota Venkatachalam:

1) Who are the Gupta Kings ? Guptarajuluevaru?

2) Who are the Andhras?


3)Bharat Rajaniti- Krishna Kumar

Bharata Rajniti

Please download the pdfs and give us synopsis.


Mother lode of such digital manuscripts:

Internet Search Archive

This one has many types of e-books.

HEC2007 Distorted History - ramana - 10-02-2007


1) Scientific dating the Mahabharata War



Prasad Gokhale_Antiquity and Continuity in Indian History

3) Dating Adi Sankara

HEC2007 Distorted History - Guest - 10-02-2007

x-post from Ancient India thread

<!--QuoteBegin-aruni+Sep 27 2006, 05:21 PM-->QUOTE(aruni @ Sep 27 2006, 05:21 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->Reclaiming the Chronology of Bharatam
B. N. Narahari Achar

Date of the Mah˜bh˜rata War based on Simulations using Planetarium Software

On related subject (came in email):

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->There are two issues here: one is astronomical observation; the other is astronomical computation.

It is clear that Veda Vyasa was recording observed celestial events using them as his day's clock and calendar to realte events on the earth. There is little evidence of astronomical computation in the Great Epic, the Mahabharata which contains over 150 very specific astronomical observations and events such as the sequence of lunar-solar-lunar eclipses occurring within 13 tithi-s each, Bhishma waiting for the arrival of the uttarayana punyakaala to leave his mortal body, the starting and arrival nakshatra of the 42-day pariyatra by Shri Balarama along River Sarasvati and the celestial position of planets on each day of the 18-day war, apart from astronomical discussions during Krishna-Karna samvaada and the references to comets as demonstrated by Narahari Achar.

Remarkable work is ongoing to relate astronomical information contained in ancient texts of Bharatam to scientifically falsifiable geological events such as the formation of a rann, incursions of the sea or earthquakes or impacts of meteorites.

We have miles to go. The work is outside of itihaasa. It is related to time, more specifically, to kaala, mahaakaala in the bharatiya perceptions of the time as a cyclical continuum, an inexorable cosmic rhythm. These explorations will take us into realms beyond physics or astronomy into relating individual consciousness to cosmic consciousness, aatman to paramaatman.

We run into problems of semantics with critical terms such as graha. When does a graha refer to a planet and when does it refer to a comet in the ancient texts? Surely, unraveling of historical time (aha, chronology) cannot be performed by historians alone but has to be a collaboration between those who can fathom the mysteries of technical terms in the Veda and in Samskrtam, Jaina, Bauddha texts and those who can see parallels with the observations of scientists of a variety of disciplines ranging from mathematics and astronomy to atoms/strings and the big bang (or collapse, or whatever). Very ancient history has to be written by scientists and language scholars in a new collaborative enterprise which has to emerge. We have the bharata nidhi, the treasure of texts; we need the young nation to take up the challenge of reading this nidhi and conveying the contents to the present and future generations.

How do we explain the metaphor of Mahaakaala of Ujjain?

<!--QuoteBegin--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->
<b>Astronomical calculations in ancient India based on scientific research</b>
HTC, Dec. 7, 2006

"THE ASTRONOMICAL calculations made in ancient India and recorded in Puranas and other texts were not mythical but were based on scientific research which is corroborated even by the modern science", said eminent historian and epigraphist, Prof. TP Verma.
He was delivering a lecture on "The Science of Manvantara" organised by the Jnana-Pravaha, Centre For Cultural Studies and Research in Samne Ghat area here on Wednesday.

Prof. Verma, former head of the Ancient Indian History, Culture and Archaeology Department in Banaras Hindu University (BHU), said that 'manvantara' represented by an intelligent being called Manu, is an astronomical unit of time denoting one cycle of life on earth, which is equivalent to 30,84,48,000 years.

"During this period, the Sun with its planets completes one circle of our galaxy, which is termed as Parameshthi-Mandala in our ancient literature. A period of 14 such cycles of 'manvantaras' is estimated as whole life of the earth", he said, adding, "Notably, modern science believes the earth to have come into existence 4.5 billion years ago, which is endorsed by the Atharva-Veda".

"Such complicated and precise astronomical calculations also establish that script and art of writing in ancient India was in vogue long before it is now believed to have been", he said. Prof. Verma further informed that according to ancient Indian calculations, Shri Krishna was born in 3210 BC, which was the junction period of Dvapara and Kali Yugas.

Presiding over the lecture, renowned Sanskrit scholar, Prof. KD Tripathi observed, "It is the high-time when we should again revert back to our ancient tradition and try to make deeper probing of our rich and vast knowledge recorded in our literature and which has now become mysterious for us". "We are deeply impressed by the researches done in the western world and accept blindly, but we are unaware of the fact that we already possessed such knowledge, which unfortunately we lost due to our ignorance", he said.

HEC2007 Distorted History - Shambhu - 10-03-2007

Sanskrit, Max Muller etc.

Swami Vigyananand, an alumunus of IIT Kharagpur. is a Samskrita scholar, and a full time VHP worker.

HEC2007 Distorted History - Shambhu - 10-03-2007

<!--emo&Smile--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--emo&Smile--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--emo&Smile--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->

This was posted by Bodhiji in General Topics. It is a wealth of information and clear, matter-of-fact arguments against anti-Hindu forces; simple language. (I have only read the "Do your history textbooks tell you these facts?" so far).

Links to books in other languages too in the original post..


HEC2007 Distorted History - ramana - 10-08-2007

Op-Ed in Pioneer, 8 Oct., 2007
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Kerala School absent in annals

Second opinion: KL Jhingan

This has reference to the article, <b>"From Kerala to infinity", the interview with George G Joseph "Knowledge Travels" (August 20) and the editorial, "This is to certify" (August 14).</b>

On going through AL Basham's books, The Wonder that was India and A Cultural History of India, and the chapter on mathematics in ancient India in Jawaharlal Nehru's Discovery of India, one gets a clear indication as to who were the leading lights of Indian mathematics in the past: Aryabhatt (5th century) Brahmagupta (7th Century) Mahavir (9th century) and Bhaskar (12th Century). There is no reference, even obliquely, to the so-called 'Kerala School'.

Basham says that some progress happened in trigonometry, spherical geometry and calculus chiefly in connection with astronomy. He only mentions the above-mentioned doyens of ancient Indian mathematics. And Will Durant states, "Bhaskar crudely anticipated the differential calculus."

The book, A Cultural History of India, says, "KS Shukla lists a minimum 28 commentaries on it (the reference is to Surya Sidhant) by known authors mostly in Sanskrit but two in Telugu reaching to the early 18th century together with at least 17 works based essentially upon its theory, his recent edition includes the commentary of Parameswar (AD 432) written in Kerala in south India."

Discovery of India talks of Narayan (1150 AD), Ganesh (1545 (AD), and mentions a book, History of Hindu Mathematics, by B Dutta and AN Singh 1935. There were earlier books also Baudhayan (eighth century BC) Apastamb and Katyayan (both fifth century BC).

From the above, it can be inferred that the roots of ancient Indian mathematics go back to Vedic times with the flowering of the genius. <b>Such mathematics reached its zenith from fifth to 12th centuries AD.</b>

The observations in The Wonder that was India and Our Oriental Heritage regarding ancient Indian mathematicians' acquaintance with calculus during the above period was decidedly prior to the claim of so-called Kerala School. Thereafter, very little original work on mathematics was done in India after the 12th century, as opined by Nehru; other works being mere repetitions.

There is no reference to Madhava and Nilakantha of the 'Kerala School', to whom the knowledge of infinite series - one of the basic components of calculus in attributed in the said article.


Will try to get the Aug 20th article and post here.
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin--><b>From Kerala to infinity </b>

In their stunning new research, Dennis Francis Almeida and George Gheverghese Joseph show how mathematicians in Kerala developed the infinite series more than 250 years before Isaac Newton is credited to have done so. It was Jesuit missionaries who carried Kerala's knowledge to Europe
According to literature the general methods of the calculus were invented independently by Newton and Leibniz in the late 17th century after exploiting the works of European pioneers such as Fermat, Roberval, Taylor, Gregory, Pascal, and Bernoulli in the preceding half century. 

However, what appears to be less well known is that the fundamental elements of the calculus including numerical integration methods and infinite series derivations for 'pi' and for trigonometric functions such as sin x, cos x and tan-1 x (the so-called Gregory series) had already been discovered over 250 years earlier in Kerala.

These developments first occurred in the works of the Kerala mathematician Madhava and were subsequently elaborated on by his followers Nilakantha Somayaji, Jyesthadeva, Sankara Variyar and others between the 14th and 16th centuries. In the latter half of the 20th century there has been some acknowledgement of these facts outside India.

There are several modern European histories of mathematics which acknowledge the work of the Kerala school. However it needs to be pointed out that this acknowledgement is not necessarily universal. For example, in the recent past a paper by Fiegenbaum on the history of the calculus makes no acknowledgement of the work of the Kerala school.

However, prior to the publication of Fiegenbaum's paper, several renowned publications detailing the Keralese calculus had already appeared in the West. Such a viewpoint may have its origins in the Eurocentrism that was formulated during the period colonisation by some European nations.

In the early part of the second millennium evaluations of Indian mathematics or, to be precise, astronomy were generally from Arab commentators. They tended to indicate that Indian science and mathematics was independently derived.

Some, like Said Al-Andalusi, claimed it to be of a high order: "(The Indians) have acquired immense information and reached the zenith in their knowledge of the movements of the stars (astronomy) and the secrets of the skies (astrology) as well as other mathematical studies. After all that, they have surpassed all the other peoples in their knowledge of medical science and the strengths of various drugs, the characteristics of compounds, and the peculiarities of substances."

Others like Al-Biruni were more critical. He asserted that Indian mathematics and astronomy was much like the vast mathematical literature of the 21st century - uneven with a few good quality research papers and a majority of error strewn publications.

Nevertheless a common element in these early evaluations is the uniqueness of the development of Indian mathematics. However by the 19th century and contemporaneous with the establishment of European colonies in the East, the views of European scholars about the supposed superiority of European knowledge was developing racist overtones.

This inclination for ignoring advances in and priority of discovery by non-European mathematicians persisted until even very recent times. For example there is no mention of the work of the Kerala School in Edwards' text on the history of the calculus nor in articles on the history of infinite series by historians of mathematics such as Abeles and Fiegenbaum. A possible reason for such puzzling standards in scholarship may have been the rising Eurocentrism that accompanied European colonisation. With this phenomenon, the assumption of White superiority became dominant over a wide range of activities, including the writing of the history of mathematics.
The rise of nationalism in 19th century Europe and the consequent search for the roots of European civilisation, led to an obsession with Greece and the myth of Greek culture as the cradle of all knowledge and values and Europe becoming heir to Greek learning and values.

While we understand the strength of nationalist pride in the evaluation of the achievements of scientists, we do find difficulty in the qualitative comparison between two developments founded on different epistemological bases. It is worthwhile stating here that the initial development of the calculus in 17th century Europe followed the paradigm of Euclidean geometry in which generalisation was important and in which the infinite was a difficult issue.

On the other hand, from the 15th century onwards the Kerala mathematicians employed computational mathematics with floating point numbers to understand the notion of the infinitesimal and derive infinite series for certain targeted functions.
-- Excerpted from 'Kerala Mathematics and its Possible Transmission to Europe' by Dennis Francis Almeida, University of Exeter & George Gheverghese Joseph, University of Manchester. This was originally published in Philosophy of Mathematics Education Journal.



<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin--><b>Knowledge travels</b>

In the light of recent research at the University of Manchester which shows that the "infinite series" -- and the "Pi series" therein -- were determined by Kerala scholars 250 years before Isaac Newton is credited to have done so, Nandini Jawli spoke to head researcher Dr George Gheverghese Joseph. Excerpts from the interview:

<b>Q. Did you have an inkling of the fact that the "infinite series" and the "Pi series" must have originally been discovered outside Europe? </b>

A. Certainly there was information about it. While researching on my first edition, I did find out that there were quite a number of papers published in India and elsewhere that discussed this.

Here I would like to specify that when you talk of Infinite series, the Pi series is part of it. They are not separate series. Infinite series involve trigonometric functions - sines, cosines and circular functions.

I don't think Indians then knew something called 'pi', that has come later. They were interested in finding out some sort of a way to calculate the circumference of a circle for a given diameter, which virtually comes to the same thing as pi.

<b>Q. How do you think the knowledge of the Infinite series must have finally reached Sir Isaac Newton and Gottfried Leibnitz? </b>

A. This is a conjecture. <b>We do not have any direct evidence. It is unlikely that Newton or Leibnitz knew anything about Kerala mathematics. But they might have obtained their mathematics from a number of European mathematicians, who lived before them. like Fermat, Wallis, James Gregory, who were at some point in touch with the Jesuits for professional reasons. Some of the prominent Jesuit mathematicians and astronomers - like Matteo Ricci, Antonio Rubino and Johann Shreck - had gone to Kerala between middle of 16th to early 17th century. They were sent on a project to know how Indians constructed calendar and did stellar navigation.</b>

Newton and Leibnitz did not directly know about Kerala mathematics. <b>But they were dependent on some of the mathematical ideas of Fermat and others, who could actually have very well been informed by Jesuits. Probably, Jesuits had got the original idea from Kerala.</b>

Q. While the Jesuit missionaries were studying calendars used in different parts of the world, how come they chanced upon scholarly works on calculus, a completely different field of study? Was it a chance finding? An accident?

A. Certainly, it was! <b>The Jesuits were sent to India on an information-gathering mission to find out about Indian calendar. It was the time when Pope had formed a committee to reform Julian calendar. Clavius, the renowned teacher in Rome, had instructed his students to look out for information on Indian calendars.</b>

So if there was any connection to the infinite series, it was not directly the calendar but stellar navigation, which involves accurate values of sines and cosines.

<b>Q. You have told the media: "There were many reasons why the contribution of the Kerala school has not been acknowledged - a legacy of European colonialism and beyond." What is the solution to this prejudice? </b>

A. This is one reason but there are other reasons as well. <b>The activity of the Kerala school was highly localised, just confined to a small area north of Cochin. Then there was the linguistic problem. Very few people who studied, knew the old Malayalam. Many Western scholars knew Sanskrit but not many knew Malayalam.</b>

Another reason was its being a former colony. It's not been part of any colonial power, not just British, to acknowledge that they owe a debt to anybody, particularly someone from a colony.

The solution: We have to more and more excavate the knowledge, make sure we have strong evidence to support any claims. The solution is to break down this prejudice whether from India , Europe or Islamic countries. We would be making same mistakes like Europeans if we try to monopolise mathematical knowledge.

<b>Q. Would it not have been ethical of Newton to acknowledge the contribution of received wisdom to his works on analytical dynamics? </b>

A. Newton was a great scientist. He will be remembered for his genius for a long time. There is nothing unethical about it. His greatness lies in bringing together a number of strands, putting them in a coherent framework and creating something new. His calculus was the starting point of modern mathematics.

I am simply saying that one particular aspect of something attributed to Newton, may have come from Kerala or India.


Maybe the info about the Kerala school of mathematics was no known outside Kerala?

HEC2007 Distorted History - Guest - 10-09-2007

The Kerala school was initiated by Madhava of Sangramagrama (1400's) during the time of the Vijayanagar empire. The work of this school reached a peak with Nilakanta Somayaji (Master of the Soma Yajnas) during 1600s.... The late KV Sarma did the most work unearthing the work of this group as well as other contributions .

HEC2007 Distorted History - Guest - 10-09-2007

Good suggestion Shambhu.. (about wendy donniger). will implement next year .. too late for this year.

HEC2007 Distorted History - Guest - 10-09-2007

The latest data will be presented by Prof Achar at HEC2007. see my site at . Pl. do not copy into IF (as yet)

I just made it available so attendees can read the paper and come prepared for discussion

HEC2007 Distorted History - Guest - 10-19-2007

Some notes and observations from HEC2007

1. Most of the papers are now in and and can be perused in my google document space. You can access it by asking me (do a google on my name) for approval..... Or ryou can access it at my web site www.indicethos/History/HEC2007.htm. However this will be password protected for the next 3 months until it appears in print in the Hindu renaissance magazine usually in the 2nd issue of 2008. My introductory talk cannnn eb found at for the password email me at history-seminar at heconf dot com.

I plan to bring out a book based on the lectures (target April 2008)

2. There are several folllow ons

a. Hold a seminar in india in 2008
b' produce a TV series on Math and astronomy along the lines of The ascent of man
c. holld seminars in USa throughout the year

4. CAPEEEM fund raising by Kalavaai was quite successful as i had hoped t would

Generally my session had the most papers (12 papers over 2 days and 6 hours) and very good attendance and the cosnesus was we need more of the same.

HEC2007 Distorted History - Guest - 11-13-2007

<b>Bharatiya historiography: role of Ramayana and Mahabharata</b><!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Bharatiya historiography cannot be straight-jacketed in the present-day contexts or meanings of 'history' as a chronicle, a chronology or narration of human progress.

Bharatiya historiography is founded on brahma yajna and many manifestations of knowledge represented by this aadhyaatmika journey of the practitioner, the aatman. Bharatiya historiography is an integral inquiry into phenomena and in relation to one's station in life and the dharma to be performed for attaining nihs'reyas and abhyudayam.

Brahma yajna is a process of knowing about the cosmos and includes many facets of learning through many sources.

In the context of brahma yajna, Taittiriya Aranyaka notes:

Somaahutibhir yad atharvaangiraso madhvaahutibhir yad braahman.aaneetihaasaan puraan.aani kalpaan gaathaa naaraas'amseer medaahutitirbhirava tad devas tarpati ta enam truptaa aayushaa tejasaa varcasaa s'riyaa yas'asaa brahma varcasena annaadyena ca tarpayanti (2.10)

Chandogya Upanishad (7.1.4) brackets itihaasa and puraan.a with the Veda:

Mimaamsate ca yo vedaan savistaraih

Itihaasa puraan.aani sa bhaved veda paragah

(One who studies thoroughly the Veda along with it's six limbs and the itihaasa and puraan.a becomes a true knower of the Veda)

The list of history related terms are: braahman.a, itihaasa, puraan.a, kalpa, gaathaa naaraas'amsee, aakhyaana

All these terms are in plural. There are many itihaasa, many puraan.a. The tradition holds the Ramayana and Mahabharata to be itihaasa.

The compound, iti-ha-aasa means 'so indeed it was'.

Puraan.a means 'belonging to ancient times'.

Aakhyaana means 'narrations, recitation of historical narrations' (S'rimadbhagavatam 1.9.28); aakhyaayika means 'anectode'.

Itivrtta means 'kaavya' or literary works or lores, and can be in three forms: naat.aka, nr.tya, keertana.

kalpa is a cycle of creation. For example, kalpa sutra in the Jaina tradition includes the narrations of the lives of Mahavira and other tirthankara.

Gaatha are meditations. One group of 17 sacred texts called Gaatha in the Avestan tradition, referring to the holy songs of Zarathushtra. In Rigveda ( 1.167.6, 9.11.4), the term, gaatha is used as a reference to a song. In some contexts, gaatha also refers to poetry of legends or aakhyaana (e.g., S'unahs'epa aakhyaana, Supran.a aakhyaana) or to a metrical part of the Bauddha utra.

Naaraas'amsee gaathaa means 'songs in praise in the Rigveda'. Some also interpret the term as a reference to anecdotes gleaned from the Veda. (For example, in Brihaddevataa, adhyaaya 2, naaras'amsi, pavamaana and jaatavedas are grouped together as songs to divinities including pavamaana soma, personified material; divinities of Rigveda also include tanoonapat and naaras'amsi who are divinities of the apri rica-s indicating idhma as a form of agni; divinities of Rigveda 1.14-15 include tanoonapat, naaras'amsi, il.aa, barhis).

S'ivagita is included in the uttarakanda of Padma Purana. "The Siva Gita begins with episode from the Ramayana epic, where Rama is despondent over the loss of Sita. At this time, Rama is visited by Sage Agastya, and Sage Agastya prescribes to Rama that he should observe a special vow called the Pasupata vrata. By observing this vow Agastya promises that Rama shall have a vision of Lord Siva, and will receive the Pasupata arrow without which Ravana cannot be defeated. Rama performs the vow and at the end of four months receives a divine vision of Siva. Siva presents Rama with the Pasupata arrow, and Rama in turn asks Lord Siva a series of questions. The dialogue between Sri Rama and Lord Siva makes up the bulk of the Siva Gita. "

Some excerpts have been cited from this text of S'ivagita:

<!--QuoteBegin--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->I am the Rg Veda, the Yajur Veda, the Sâma Veda, the Atharvana, full of sacred mantras, and similarly the distinguished Angiras all originate from Me. ||16||

I am the Itihâsas, the Purâòas, I am the kalpa (cycle of creation), and the performer of the rituals. I am the Narasamsi (hymn of Rudra); I am the Gâtha (hymn praising Vedic ritual). I am meditation and the secret wisdom. ||17|| <!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

The brahmayajna verses cited earlier read with this text show that in the scheme of knowledge and the texts to be read and understood include, apart from the Veda, the itihaasa, puraan.a, kalpa, naaras'amsi and gaatha.

Other terms which have a reference to such studies are: aakhyaana, itivr.tta, vams'a, vams'aanucarita. Good example of vams'a and vams'aanucarita are provided in the work of Bana Bhatta, Harshacarita and of Vakpatiraja, Padmagupta, Atula, Bilhana, Bhulokamalla, Jayanaka, Kalhana.

Veda and Puraan.a are sometimes referred to as apaurusheya:

Atharva veda 11.7.24: rcah saamaani chandaamsi yajusaa saha

Ucchis.t.ajjajnire sarve divi deva divis'ritah (Rig, Saama, Yajur and Atharva veda, along with the Puraan.a , and all the divinities residing in heavenly planets appeared from the Supreme).

Atharva Veda 15.6.10,12 also lists itihaasa in the following context:

Sa br.hatim dis'amanuvyacalat

Tam itihaasas'ca ca gaathaas'ca

Itihaasasya ca sa vai puraan.asya ca gaathaanaam ca

Naaras'amseenaam ca priyamdhama bhavati ya evam veda

(He moved favourably towards Br.hati and thus the itihaasa, puraan.a, gata and naaras'amsee became favourable to him. One who knows this verily becomes the dear abode of the itihaasa and puraan.a and naaras'amsee)

Gopatha Braahman.a Purva 2.10 notes and adds a new term, anvakhyaata:

Evamime sarve veda nirmitah sa kalpah

Sa rahasyah sa braahman.ah sopanis'at.kah

Setihaasah sa anvakhyatah sa puraan.aah

(In this way all the Veda became manifest along with the Kalpa, Rahasya, braahman.a, Upanishad, itihaasa, anvakhyaata and puraan.a)

Note: these citations and translations from Atharva Veda and Gopatha Braahman.a are after

Many aberrations and distortions in understanding the ancient hindu civilization arise from a misunderstanding or lack of understanding of the evolution of historiography in Bharatam as a complement to the ultimate purushaartha of upholding dharma in every action and in every inquiry. The aberrations and distortions in Bharatiya Itihaasa have occurred because of this misunderstanding and jumpting to the wrong conclusion that Bharatiya lack a sense of 'history' (as defined by the western academics).

History in bharatiya tradition is an vast and expansive continuum in time and space. The sankalpa mantra uttered before beginning the brahma yajna exemplifies this tradition, first locating the practitioner or student in time and space, before proceeding with the s'ikshaa. In this sikshaa which is also a deekshaa, itihaasa is only one part of studying paraa and aparaa vidyaa. Ramayana and Mahabharata are the itihaasa in this hindu civilization continuum. Both these itihaasa should be viewed only in the cultural context in which they have been communicated to the people through many media such as pravacana, naat.aka, puppetry, dance and song. One has only to see the importance of Ramayana by listening to the kriti-s of Tyagaraja, dances of Thailand or of Mahabharata by viewing the puppet shows in Indonesia.

To say that Ramayana and Mahabharata are not 'historical texts' is an unfortunate misunderstanding of the context in which these itihaasa are rendered and accepted by many citizens in many parts of the world, in general, of Bharatam, in particular. I submit that Ramayana and Mahabharata are the sheet-anchors of Bharatiya Itihaasa. We have to research on and delve deep into these texts to document a grand narrative of Bharatiya Itihaasa.

10 Nov. 2007
Sarasvati Research Centre.
Webpage at:

HEC2007 Distorted History - Shambhu - 11-15-2007

This may or may not be distorted history, the books are still to come out. But it seems like a big project, worth keeping an eye on:

HEC2007 Distorted History - Guest - 11-16-2007

<!--QuoteBegin-Shambhu+Nov 15 2007, 08:53 AM-->QUOTE(Shambhu @ Nov 15 2007, 08:53 AM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->This may or may not be distorted history, the books are still to come out. But it seems like a big project, worth keeping an eye on:
[right][snapback]75258[/snapback][/right]<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->Pasting the following from the person who's rewriting the epics (he's only rewriting stuff, because he has no imagination of his own nor can he do a proper retelling that keeps to the spirit of the original either):
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->The epic tale of Prince Rama has been so heavily mythologized that the actual story has been nearly lost. If surreal images of magical powers, flying monkeys, talking vultures and ancient aircraft are removed, what remains is a more honest account of an amazing triumph of human will; a victory not only of Dharma over Adharma, but of human character over human frailty.

A tale spanning decades and thousands of kilometers, the Ramayana is ancient and timeless. It is a tale that needs to be told as it originally was.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->Yes, of course, us stoopid Hindoos have been mistaken for millennia. Prayse jehovallah, he's going to set us and our epics right. <i>He's</i> the one who knows what has been "mythologized" and what is "the actual story". Just like the hateward ('harvard') folks know the "true" Hinduism from the other kind that Hindus have always practised.

"If (actual elements from Ramayanam) are removed, what remains is a more honest account"
Of course, <i>he</i> - a confused-desi clown who 'discovered' his heritage from the book "Hinduism For Dummies", no doubt - is to be the judge of what is honest in the originals and what ought to be removed. It's like christoislamicommunazis, tearing up/burning people's books again in order to rewrite these and history for their victims the way they want it to be.

Oh, and get this from the above: "the Ramayana ... is a tale that needs to be told as it originally was." That's right, this guy - who wouldn't know the Ramayanam from the Virgin(?) comic book of similar name he's recently booked out of his local 'library' - knows what the story "originally was", rather than the one that Valmiki "obviously got all wrong". That's because our dude has found the <i>truly</i> original manuscript, you see: the one he's plagiarising - sorry, 'writing'.

More from the unimaginative psecularado:
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->The Real History of India

This trilogy will replace historical negationism and/or fantasy with a set of historical fictional works that are entertaining and educational.
These novels will not fall into sterotypical representations of avatars with blue skin or magical powers or flying monkeys. Kings will be portrayed as kings, priests as priests, human emotions and actions will be vividly real and I will take the reader back in time to become part of the grand narratives in present tense.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->Hindu epics are "fantasy"! Such sympathy for his subject! Where had I heard that before... oh yes, the christocolonial British and of course the Indian reds.
And what does he mean by "educational"? Alluding to communist re-education, going by the rest of his nonsense. He seems to have noted MB's importance:
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->the Mahabharata is perhaps the KEY to understanding India.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->And twisting it he might think is the key to undoing it too?
(At this link he compares MB to modern soap operas <!--emo&:blink:--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/blink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='blink.gif' /><!--endemo--> The only thing that makes sense is that he's obviously been watching soaps a bit much.)

Mais c'est incroyable! The contents of Valmiki's Ramayanam and Vyasar's Mahabharatam are "stereotypical"? Does the drone know what that word even means? Valmiki's Ramayanam and Vyasar's MB/Jaya are the <i>originals</i>, they're the authentic written sources. And Rama and Krishna have indeed been described as blue - shyama. Hanuman and the other Vanaras were all described as monkeys - literally, complete with tails. According to the same original texts, the Rakshasas' magical powers did grow at night. That's not "stereotypical representations", but the original ones.

But apparently "stereotypical" in his world means Hindu tradition; it means whatever his mind is unable to compute.

This plagiarist's intents behind selection and deselection in rewriting the original epics is what is truly stereotypical: it's the stereotypical excuse which communists and christians end up admitting to (whenever they are forced to agree to/allow <i>some</i> kind of historicity in our Hindu epics). It's centered around "how to root out all that is Hindu from our Hindu epics", leaving us with the sort of bland soup that we can frankly get from anywhere (which is restricted purely to the kind of stuff that can be digested by the confused Indian who is conditioned only to western society's processes and thinking patterns, and therefore finds blue skin, flying monkeys and the rest too much to accept. Rather like how modern western screenplay writers rewrote the Iliad for their lame "Troy" such that there's no sight of the Goddesses trying to win the Apple which led to the war. The net effect is like that of a book where important pages and chapters are torn out.)

The utter lack of imagination is rather predictable, too. He can't even come up with his own stories, but has to go out of his way to twist Hindu epics beyond recognition.

Ah, the modern 'Hindu': the kind that keeps proclaiming that it is Hindu, but in reality feels no connection to the materials it is shearing of Hinduness, or to actual Hindu traditions. Therefore it is not at all unexpected that the kreatur wants to rewrite sacred Hindu epics and the Vedic account of King Sudas its own way - because actual, traditional Hinduism is too alien for it to comprehend and is unacceptable. Its own modern construct of Hinduism must be presented as the "true, honest, original, unstereotypical, non-mythological" Hinduism - versus the Hinduism that us dratted Hindoo gullibles have been following for millennia.

But it's quite likely that many subversive movements will try to garner fame for the epic-twillogy's promised insipidness; heck, with enough publicity, they might even want to make movies of it. Not for any writing/narrating talent on the part of the pawn who is penning it, of course, but merely to infect the minds of next generation Hindus with an un-Hindu view of the epics.
That EpicTwillogy site is linked off of the satyameva-jayate blog, isn't it? Can't figure how any people consciously Hindu would endorse it by putting it in their links section. But, I suppose the confused 'Hindu' mind is rather widespread.

HEC2007 Distorted History - Shambhu - 11-16-2007

Good..I had not gone thru all the stuff..that piece of gift-wrap does not deserve to be linked on sjblog..