Forums
India - China: Relations And Developments-2 - Printable Version

+- Forums (http://india-forum.com)
+-- Forum: Indian Politics, Business & Economy (http://india-forum.com/forumdisplay.php?fid=6)
+--- Forum: Strategic Security of India (http://india-forum.com/forumdisplay.php?fid=18)
+--- Thread: India - China: Relations And Developments-2 (/showthread.php?tid=469)

Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24


India - China: Relations And Developments-2 - Husky - 03-01-2009

http://rajeev2004.blogspot.com/2009/02/tib...le-on-fire.html
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin--><b>Tibetan monk shot while on fire</b>
feb 28th, 2009

they won't even let tibetans die in peace. isn't this genocide?

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Xinhua Ram


Xinhua Ram  saw this story on the BBC News website and thought you
should see it.



** Tibetan monk 'shot' while on fire **
<b>A Tibetan monk is shot after setting fire to himself during a protest against Beijing's rule, reports say.</b>
< http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/em/fr/-/1/hi/worl...fic/7916544.stm ><!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->Christos and communists are all the same: heathens are not allowed to commit suicide (suicide is forbidden, the non-existent jeebusjehovallah says so), since christianism=communism claims for itself the right to murder heathens.


India - China: Relations And Developments-2 - dhu - 03-02-2009

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->BEIJING (AFP) — Tensions were high in a flashpoint town of southwest China Saturday after a Tibetan monk set himself on fire in protest against Chinese rule, activist groups and residents said.

Chinese authorities confirmed a man had set himself alight, but did not acknowledge claims by activist groups that police shot the monk and that he embarked on his protest after officials banned prayers at his monastery.

The incident on Friday came amid reported protests across the Tibetan plateau ahead of the ultra-sensitive 50th anniversary on March 10 of a failed uprising against Chinese rule that led to the Dalai Lama fleeing to India.

The monk, in his late 20s, was shot after dousing himself with petrol and setting himself alight in the Tibetan-populated town of Aba in southwest China's Sichuan province, the London-based group Free Tibet reported.

The monk, from Kirti monastery in Aba, held a flag with an image of the Dalai Lama, the Himalayan region's spiritual leader, as he embarked on his protest, Free Tibet and other activist groups said.

They cited unnamed witnesses and Aba residents.

In a brief report on China's official Xinhua news agency, Aba Communist Party chief Shi Jun confirmed a man wearing monk's robes had walked out of the monastery and set himself alight.

Shi reportedly said police put out the fire, and that the man was taken to hospital with burn injuries to his neck and head.

The Xinhua report made no mention of any shooting by police, while local authorities refused to comment to AFP.

Locals telephoned by AFP on Saturday were extremely fearful of discussing the issue. Some said police had fired shots but they would not comment on who these were aimed at.

One resident, who could not be named for fear of reprisal, said police had told her not to say anything but she confirmed police had fired shots.

"It's true, but I can't say anymore. My phone is monitored," she told AFP before hanging up.

Other residents also confirmed police shooting, but quickly put the phone down.

Some spoke of a strong force presence in the town after the incident.

"There are many policemen on patrol in the street and all of them have guns," an employee at a teahouse in Aba told AFP.

According to International Campaign for Tibet (ICT), the monk set himself alight after authorities blocked around 1,000 monks at Kirti monastery from holding prayers for the Tibetan New Year, which fell on Wednesday.

Aba has been a flashpoint town since police opened fire on an anti-Chinese protest there in March last year, in violence that activists said left at least seven Tibetans dead.

Tensions have been mounting for weeks across the Tibetan plateau ahead of the 1959 uprising anniversary, and Chinese authorities have reportedly dramatically increased security in the areas.

Next month also marks one year since peaceful protests that began on the 49th anniversary of the uprising escalated into violent rioting in Tibet's capital, Lhasa, and other areas of the plateau, such as Aba.

Tibet's government-in-exile says the government crackdown following last year's unrest left 200 Tibetans dead.

China denies this, but has reported police killed one "insurgent" and blamed Tibetan "rioters" for 21 deaths.

The Dalai Lama warned on Tuesday that Chinese authorities were trying to provoke Tibetans into remonstrating.

"When this happens the authorities can then indulge in (an) unprecedented and unimaginable forceful clampdown," he said.

Travel agents and other industry people have told AFP that Tibet has been closed to foreign tourists for March, although the Chinese government insists the Himalayan region remains open.

Foreign reporters are barred from travelling to Tibet independently.

China has ruled Tibet since 1951, a year after sending troops in to "liberate" the region from what it said was serfdom under the Dalai Lama.


The 50th anniversary is approaching, better be prepared. <!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->


India - China: Relations And Developments-2 - Guest - 03-06-2009

<b>Shrinking India, rising China</b>

Well, commies and appointed Prime Minister of India were so much love the China that they have given free hand to Chini ignoring even national interest and security of India.


India - China: Relations And Developments-2 - Guest - 03-09-2009

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin--><b>China in dispute with Malaysia, Philippines over Island</b>
7 Mar 2009, 2002 hrs IST, Saibal Dasgupta, TNN
BEIJING: China, which has a long standing dispute with Japan over an island, has now entered in a tiff with Malaysia and the Philippines over another island in the South China Sea.

<b>The Chinese foreign ministry said on Friday that China has indisputable sovereignty over the Nansha Islands and adjacent waters. </b>

It was reacting to a statement from Malaysian prime minister Abdullah Haji Ahmad Badawi on Thursday claiming Malaysia's sovereignty over these areas. Chinese foreign ministry spokesman Qin Gang said Beijing was prepared to resolve the dispute through consultation.

The two houses of Philippines parliament adopted resolutions in late January and early February laying claim on the Nansha islands. China immediately reacted saying that the decisions taken in Manila were amounted to a violation of China's sovereignty.. China regards all these islands as inalienable parts of Chinese territory.

"We hope the countries involved will abide by the Declaration on the Conduct of Parties in the South China Sea, and refrain from taking actions that might complicate or expand disputes," Qin said on Friday. There was need for concerted efforts to safeguard the peace and stability of the South China Sea, he said.

<b>The Nansha Islands is a group of more than 650 reefs, atolls, cays and islands in the South China Sea. Nansha has an uninhabited oceanic atoll called the Danwan Reef. </b>

Beijing has been involved in a serious battle of words over Tokyo over the Diaoyu Islands. Japanese foreign minister Hirofumi Nakasone recently caused a lot of heart burning in China by saying that the Diaoyu islands are part of the Treaty of Mutual Cooperation and Security between Japan and United States. He meant that the existence of the treaty made it impossible for Tokyo to accept China's claims on the island.

Chinese foreign ministry spokesman reacted saying that any treaty between Japan and the US should not hurt the interest of China.

"Any words and deeds that bring the Diaoyu Islands into the scope of the Japan-US Mutual Cooperation and Security Treaty are absolutely unacceptable for the Chinese people," an official spokesman said.

The Japanese foreign minister has also expressed concern over China's military build-up, which is evident in the recent hike in defense expenditure. The island dispute is also affected the talks between Beijing and Tokyo on joint exploration of oil and gas in East China Sea, sources said.
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/World/C...how/4239236.cms
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Good going, get ready for war, sell weapons to every asian country.


India - China: Relations And Developments-2 - Husky - 03-09-2009

^


http://rajeev2004.blogspot.com/2009/03/rea...from-china.html
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Sunday, March 08, 2009
<b>the real White Tiger - from China</b>
this is what Marigold Idiots Karat and Yechury (not to mention their scribe at the Chindu) do not want you to know about China. I really loved this piece in Pico Iyer's review

<i>The twisted logic of the system decrees that each person’s well-being depends on the suffering of someone else: survival essentially means self-protection, and protecting yourself means putting your neighbor down.</i>
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/08/books/re....html?ref=books

Every Indian should buy this book and read it aloud to <b>that White Tiger guy whose character writes the book to the Chinese premier</b>.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Is he referring to White Tiger by Aravind Adiga (I think it won a booker?).

Doesn't this AA - writing about a very poor person as if he knows what it's like, without having ever been poor and who then won a booker for it - remind you of someone? (Hint hint: Danny Boyle - who never went to India and didn't know about it but decided to make slummovie and who won a bunch of oscars for it.)

http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2008/oct/16/booker-prize
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Roars of anger

Aravind Adiga's debut novel, The White Tiger, won the Booker prize this week. <b>But its unflattering portrait of India as a society racked by corruption and servitude has caused a storm in his homeland. He tells Stuart Jeffries why he wants to expose the country's dark side</b>

Aravid Adiga: 'This is the reality for a lot of Indian people'

This year's Booker prize winner, Aravind Adiga, talks to Stuart Jeffries

How do you get the nerve, I ask Aravind Adiga, to write a novel about the experiences of the Indian poor? After all, you're an enviably bright young thing, a middle-class, Madras-born, <b>Oxford-educated ex-Time magazine correspondent?</b> How would you understand what your central character, the downtrodden, uneducated son of a rickshaw puller turned amoral entrepreneur and killer, is going through?

It's the morning after Adiga, 33, won the £50,000 Man Booker award with his debut novel The White Tiger, which reportedly blew the socks off Michael Portillo, the chair of judges, and, more importantly, is already causing offence in Adiga's homeland for its defiantly unglamorous portrait of India's economic miracle. For a western reader, too, Adiga's novel is bracing: <b>there is an unremitting realism usually airbrushed from Indian films and novels. It makes Salman Rushdie's Booker-winning chronicle of post-Raj India, Midnight's Children (a book that Adiga recognises as a powerful influence on his work), seem positively twee. The Indian tourist board must be livid.</b>

Adiga, sipping tea in a central London boardroom, is upset by my question. Or as affronted as a man who has been exhausted by the demands of the unexpected win and the subsequent media hoopla can be. Guarded about his private life, he looks at me with tired eyes and says: <b>"I don't think a novelist should just write about his own experiences. Yes, I am the son of a doctor, yes, I had a rigorous formal education, but for me the challenge of a novelist is to write about people who aren't anything like me."</b> On a shortlist that included several books written by people very much like their central characters (Philip Hensher, for example, writing about South Yorkshire suburbanites during the miners' strike, or Linda Grant writing about a London writer exploring her Jewish heritage), the desire not to navel-gaze is surprising, even refreshing.
(Now that lame response is what's <i>really</i> Tweee.)

But isn't there a problem: Adiga might come across as a literary tourist ventriloquising others' suffering and stealing their miserable stories to fulfil his literary ambitions? "Well, this is the reality for a lot of Indian people and it's important that it gets written about, rather than just hearing about the 5% of people in my country who are doing well. In somewhere like Bihar there will be no doctors in the hospital. In northern India politics is so corrupt that it makes a mockery of democracy. This is a country where the poor fear tuberculosis, which kills 1,000 Indians a day, but people like me - middle-class people with access to health services that are probably better than England's - don't fear it at all. It's an unglamorous disease, like so much of the things that the poor of India endure.
(Oh the uppity christoconditioned - with his Oxford credentials - speaks up for the trodden-upon Indian masses. What a Robin Hood. I'm touched.)

"At a time when India is going through great changes and, with China, is likely to inherit the world from the west, it is important that writers like me try to highlight the brutal injustices of society. That's what writers like Flaubert, Balzac and Dickens did in the 19th century and, as a result, England and France are better societies. That's what I'm trying to do - it's not an attack on the country, it's about the greater process of self-examination."
("Look at me. I'm like, like Flaubert et Dickens! Wooohooo. Look at my h-booker prize.")

That, though, makes Adiga's novel sound like funless didacticism. Thankfully - for all its failings (comparisons with the accomplished sentences of Sebastian Barry's shortlisted The Secret Scripture could only be unfavourable) - The White Tiger is nothing like that. <b>Instead, it has an engaging, gobby, megalomaniac, boss-killer of a narrator who reflects on his extraordinary rise from village teashop waiter to success as an entrepreneur in the alienated, post-industrial, call-centre hub of Bangalore.</b>
(Sounds like the slummovie)

<b>Balram Halwai narrates his story through letters he writes, but doesn't send, to the Chinese premier, Wen Jiabao. Wen is poised to visit India to learn why it is so good at producing entrepreneurs, so Balram presumes to tell him how to win power and influence people in the modern India.</b> Balram's story, though, is a tale of bribery, corruption, skulduggery, toxic traffic jams, theft and murder. Whether communist China can import this business model is questionable. In any event, Balram tells his reader that the yellow and the brown men will take over the world from the white man, who has become (and this is where Balram's analysis gets shaky) effete through toleration of homosexuality, too slim and physically weakened by overexposure to mobile phones.

<b>Halwai has come from what Adiga calls the Darkness - the heart of rural India - and manages to escape his family and poverty by becoming chauffeur to a landlord from his village, who goes to Delhi to bribe government officials. Why did he make Halwai a chauffeur? "Because of the whole active-passive thing. The chauffeur is the servant but he is, at least while he's driving, in charge, so the whole relationship is subverted." Disappointingly, Adiga only knows of the Hegelian master-slave dialectic from reading Nietzsche's Genealogy of Morals. But that dialectic is the spine of his novel: the servant kills his master to achieve his freedom.</b>
(All christoconditioned Indians are clones of each other. Nothing original in them. Hindus may not get a booker or a putrid feva- uhh, I mean a pullitzer - or a nobel piecemeal award, but at least we don't parrot other people and then think we're originals.)

The White Tiger teems with indignities masquerading as employee duties. Such, Adiga maintains, is India - even as Delhi rises like a more eastern Dubai, call-centres suck young people from villages and India experiences the pangs of urbanisation that racked the west two centuries ago. "Friends who came to India would always say to me it was a surprise that there was so little crime and that made me wonder why." Balram supplies an answer: servitude. "A handful of men in this country have trained the remaining 99.9% - as strong, as talented, as intelligent in every way - to exist in perpetual servitude." What Balram calls the trustworthiness of servants is the basis of the entire Indian economy; unlike China, he reflects, India doesn't need a dictatorship or secret police to keep its people grimly achieving economic goals.
(Ah yes. Why didn't I see that coming. This is the very lefty Guardian, after all. Adiga now foresees/plans for the Revolution of the ... the People? No. The Proletariat? No. The 'Servants'. <!--emo&:blink:--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/blink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='blink.gif' /><!--endemo--> Apparently 99.9 percent of India is in servitude - it must be so, since a hookerprize winner says so!)

<b>"If we were in India now, there would be servants standing in the corners of this room and I wouldn't notice them," says Adiga.</b> "That is what my society is like, that is what the divide is like." Adiga conceived the novel when he was travelling in India and writing for Time magazine. "I spent a lot of time hanging around stations and talking to rickshaw pullers." What struck him was the physical difference between the poor and the rich: "In India, it's the rich who have problems with obesity. And the poor are darker-skinned because they work outside and often work without their tops on so you can see their ribs. But also their intelligence impressed me. What rickshaw pullers, especially, reminded me of was black Americans, in the sense that they are witty, acerbic, verbally skilled and utterly without illusions about their <b>rulers</b>."
(Now now. <i>Adiga</i> doesn't see other people. That's 'cause Adiga is a christoconditioned loser. I know <i>urban</i> Hindus who pay for the schooling of workmen's kids and give them free music classes. In other words, people who take a sincere interest in fellow people they know. It's the Hindu way, to help others rise with you.)

It is not surprising then that the greatest literary influences on the book were three great African-American 20th-century novelists - Ralph Ellison, James Baldwin and Richard Wright. "They all wrote about race and class, while later black writers focus on just class. Ellison's Invisible Man was extremely important to me. That book was disliked by white and blacks. My book too will cause widespread offence. Balram is my invisible man, made visible. This white tiger will break out of his cage."
(Of course. Like slummovie's Danny Boyle, this Adiga knows all about every <i>other</i> population/their books and thoughts - Dickens, Nietsche, African-American writers - and nothing about Indians/Hindus, the actual subjects of his fictions. He just has *notions* about Indian society and what he imagines makes it tick. Then he reasons to himself that that must be how it factually ticks - the 'reality'. And hence he wins a hooker prize for having presented the very conclusions christowest has been working hard to get the Native Indians to echo.)

<b>For Indian readers, one of the most upsetting parts of that break-out is that Halwai casts off his family. "This is a shameful and dislocating thing for an Indian to do," says Adiga. "In India, there has never been strong central political control, which is probably why the family is still so important.</b> If you're rude to your mother in India, it's a crime as bad as stealing would be here. But the family ties get broken or at least stretched when anonymous, un-Indian cities like Bangalore draw people from the villages. These really are the new tensions of India, but Indians don't think about them. The middle- classes, especially, think of themselves still as victims of colonial rule. But there is no point any more in someone like me thinking of myself as a victim of you [Adiga has cast me, not for the first time, as a colonial oppressor]. <b>India and China are too powerful to be controlled by the west any more.</b>
(But Adiga *is* controlled. Forever controlled. He's exactly what the christian African-Americans are: christian or christian-conditioned, yet not to be reconciled with their western christian puppeteers/instructors/initiators into christian patterned thinking. Forever enslaved because it is <i>ideas</i> that are still enslaving them, no longer the people who instilled those ideas.
Notice this is not the case with Natural Traditionalists in any continent. However, these have to bear the brunt of the native traitor's outwardly-directed self-loathing.)

"We've got to get beyond that as Indians and take responsibility for what is holding us back." What is holding India back? "The corruption, lack of health services for the poor and <b>the presumption that the family is always the repository of good."</b>

Our time is nearly over. Adiga doesn't know how he will spend his prize money, isn't even sure if there's a safe bank in which to deposit it. Doesn't he fear attacks at home for his portrayal of India? After all, the greatest living Indian painter, MF Husain, lives in exile. "I'm in a different position from Husain. Fortunately, the political class doesn't read. He lives in exile because his messages got through, but mine probably won't."

Adiga, who says he has written his second novel but won't talk about it ("It might be complete crap, so there's no point"), flies home to Mumbai today to resume his bachelor life. His most pressing problem is that Mumbai landlords don't let flats to single men. Why? "They think we're more likely to be terrorists. I'd just like to say, through your pages, that I am not. In fact, if you check the biographies of Indian terrorists you'll find they are mostly family men who are well-off. It's a trend that needs to be investigated."
Link to this audio

Possibly in a new novel by Adiga, yet again analysing the unbearably poignant torments of the emerging new India. Ideally, though, with jokes.

· This article was amended on Saturday October 18 2008. We were wrong to originally describe author Philip Hensher as Sheffield-born; he was born and lives in London. This has been corrected.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Always interesting, the sort of ideas christendom keeps rewarding with awards:
1. Anti-India
2. projections of universal poverty that in their presentation almost rival the very real effect that the christians from Britain produced on the Hindus (under the christoheel 'empire').
3. projections of extreme and even unreal casteism,
4. projections of ultra-violence by 'Heendoos'
5. India=casteism, Hinduism=casteism
6. India is where 99.9% is oppressed by 0.1%. Let me guess, is this a modern-day secular version of the christian Japhetic-Hamitic theory, or the communistic feudal theory ("aristocracy is bad", then "bourgeosie is bad", then ...)? Oh wait, both theories are the same: stemming from christo thought.
7. Not just communities (dubbed 'caste'), but Indian family structure is recognised as the most powerful part of the societal components of Hindu Dharma. Therefore it must be destroyed. Hence, White Tiger Pub Bharo.


After hearing whispers and grand-standing and all kinds of glory-mongering, I was anticipating some external expression in Indians of the sort of humongous genetic quotient/intelligence quotient values (I'm talking of worship-worthy magnitudes) that have been rumoured/bandied/boasted about. Sadly, there was never a sighting. But I can obviously stop expecting now: these magnifico GQs - or IQs, zoals 't je belieft - simply *must* belong to the christo Suzanna Roys, christo-conditioned Rawalpind A-dig-s and the communistical Amitaaf Ghosts and other christo-patterned entities, since they all managed to hook-a-booker prize or some other grand award (like a nobel).

Oooohhh, would ya look at that: "hook-a-booker". A bit like hooga-booga! I made that up. Quick! I deserve a Booker-Nobel for Literature.
Huh. What do they mean they don't hand them out to just anyone? *Every* Tom, Dick and Harry is getting one. What? One needs to produce "Native Regurgia of western perceptions on India and Hindu society"? Hmmm. Makes sense. It would not be called 'hooker prize' for nothing...
Never mind then. I'll get an IF award for most talentless, nonsensical and almost-tasteless (if only one could pin-point for sure that it means what it seems to insinuate that it means) phrase ever seen so far. I thank everyone and everything that made it possible - most particularly those who inspired the phrase.


India - China: Relations And Developments-2 - Guest - 03-10-2009

<b>China’s Consumer Prices Fall 1.6%, Signaling Deflation Threat </b><!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->March 10 (Bloomberg) -- China’s consumer prices fell for the first time since 2002 after commodity costs declined, s<b>toking concern that deflation will undermine efforts to revive the world’s third-biggest economy</b>.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

China never disapoints me.


India - China: Relations And Developments-2 - Husky - 03-10-2009

http://rajeev2004.blogspot.com/2009/03/ove...sing-after.html
news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20090309/india_nm/india384148
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin--><b>Over 1,200 Tibetans missing after crackdown - report</b>
By Matthias Williams Matthias Williams – Mon Mar 9, 5:16 am ET
<b> Reuters – A Tibetan living in India holds the Tibetan flag as he shouts during a demonstration in New Delhi in …</b>
(Poor Dharmic. Doesn't realise Hindus are powerless. The christoterrorist catholic tyrant and her KretinousKristianKlan rule India with a grip as powerful but more invisible and unrecognisable than that of the British christoterrorists.
And no point looking to the Indian Army, it's not helping Hindus either. Army's busy with the really important stuff: being in readiness for when the summons come. Time for them to memorise the Britannic ditty:
<i>"King George commands and we obey,
Over the Hills and Far Away."</i>
Over the Hindu Kush and into Afghanistan - when the ChristoQueen installed in India and King of US will it so.)

DHARAMSALA (Reuters) – More than 1,200 Tibetans are still missing since a Chinese crackdown on the region after protests in March last year, a report by the International Campaign for Tibet (ICT) said on Monday.

<b>Security forces arrested thousands of Tibetans, often seizing them in the middle of the night on flimsy evidence of being "splittist" and tortured them, the new report said.</b>

"There is still an intense climate of fear in Lhasa today," Kate Saunders, one of the authors of the report, told Reuters.

<b>"(Tibetans) have made tremendous steps to show that they answer to the Dalai Lama, not the Chinese state."</b>

The report was released a day before the Dalai Lama speaks on the 50th anniversary of the failed Tibetan uprising against Chinese rule, which led to the Tibetan spiritual leader's escape to northern India in 1959.

The Chinese Foreign Ministry and Public Security Ministry did not immediately comment, nor were they immediately able to provide a number for Tibetans detained but not formally charged.

Tibetans have staged more than 130 protests since major unrest began in the Tibetan plateau in March last year, the report said.

China regularly defends its rule of Tibet, saying it ended centuries of serfdom in 1959 and has since poured in development money and vastly improved the standard of life.

The Tibetan government-in-exile says more than 200 people were killed in the Chinese crackdown since last year in and around Lhasa.

The ICT, an activist organisation with ties to the exile Tibetan community, based its report on literature banned inside China and accounts of witnesses.

"Detainees were subjected to harsh beating and their major body joints -- hands and legs -- were dislocated as soon as they were brought into custody," the report said, quoting a woman from Tibet who could not be named for security reasons.

"Beatings, including stomping on their entire body, and electrocution by electric prods.

"Those who have been charged were in for a more brutal torture, including inserting bamboo through their nails and fingers tied tight and beaten."

China's state-owned Xinhua news agency announced the opening of what it called "the first website dedicated to human rights in Tibet". The website, in Chinese, English, German and French, features interviews with Tibetans but no Tibetan-language content.

A popular Chinese-language website focusing on Tibetan culture was shut last week for "upgrading and maintenance", while overseas groups said the webmaster of a Tibetan-language site also focusing on Tibetan culture was detained last week.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->


India - China: Relations And Developments-2 - dhu - 04-08-2009

Communist anti-colonial pretensions:

xpost

'US helped Pol Pot's rise to power'
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/worl...icle6043309.ece

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Duch - 'US helped Pol Pot's rise to power'
(reuters)
A man watches a live feed of Duch's trial

Anne Barrowclough
The Khmer Rouge's most notorious prison chief told a Cambodia war crimes court today US policies in the 1970s contributed to the rise of Pol Pot's genocidal regime.

Kaing Guek Eav, or 'Duch,' the brutal director of the infamous torture centre S-21 said he believed the Khmer Rouge regime would have died out had the US not supported the right wing military government that removed Prince Norodom Sihanouk from power in a 1970 coup.

Duch, who is on trial charged with crimes against humanity and war crimes, made the claims as part of a detailed testimony of his own journey from maths teacher to fanatical communist revolutionary.

Earlier, he told the UN backed tribunal that he had 'sacrified everything' to the revolution, but had realised early on that it would end in 'disaster'.

During the four years the Khmer rouge were in power from 1975 - 1979, over 1.7 million Cambodians - nearly a quarter of the population - died from starvation, disease and execution. Between 1977 and 1979 Duch himself presided over the deaths of up to 17000 victims who were brought to S-21 to be interrogated and murdered.

Last week, he took the stand to express his remorse at the atrocities committed under his command. As his trial entered its second week he took the stand again, this time to desribe his part in the rise of the Khmer Rouge.

Describing the tangled politics of Cambodia as the Vietnam War raged on the country's eastern border, and the Khmer Rouge recruited peasants and intellectuals disillusioned with Prince Sihanouk's autocratic regime, he said he believed Pol Pot's revolution would have come to an end in 1970 if US policy had not presented him with a 'golden opportunity'.

<b>"I think the Khmer Rouge would already have been demolished,"</b> he said. <b>"But Mr. Kissinger (the then U.S. Secretary of State) and Richard Nixon were quick (to back General Lon Nol, the right wing coup leader), and then the Khmer Rouge noted the golden opportunity." </b>

<b>Pol Pot seized on the US intervention in Cambodian politics as a propoganda tool to increase recruitment, </b>and build power as it battled Lon Nol's regime between 1970 - 1975. The coup led to a significant increase in support from the Vietnamese communists which was to prove crucial in bringing Pol Pot to power.

Duch had begun the day recounting his personal odyssey to revolution, describing how he became interested in politics in 1957 and decided to join the Khmer Rouge in1964.

He said his parents were sympathetic to his belief in fighting oppression but afraid for him, because he risked arrest and imprisonment.

"I sacrificed everything to the revolution," the 66-year-old told the court.

When he decided to go to the countryside to become a full-time Khmer Rouge cadre, he went to say goodbye to his parents, he said.

"My father was shocked," he recalled, but gave him a lucky wristband. His friends presented him with a watch.

He was first given the job of teaching morality to his fellow guerrillas, but abilities of the meticulous former school master were swiftly recognized by his superiors, and he was put in charge of interrogation at a security prison known as M-13 in a jungle stronghold.

As prisoners and documents were sent to him, he saw that, even before the Khmer Rouge had taken power, its members were accusing, arresting and killing each other.

"I said to myself, 'Oh, this is going to be a disaster,'" he testified.

Duch is the first of five former Khmer Rouge leaders to be tried by the Extraordinary Chambers of the Courts of Cambodia (ECCC), and the only one to apologise for his war crimes.

His trial comes as once again allegations of corruption threaten to overshadow the court's proceedings.

Peter Taksoe-Jensen, the U.N. assistant secretary-general for legal affairs, isto meet government and tribunal officials this week to discuss allegations that Cambodian personnel at the ECCC were forced to pay kickbacks to obtain their positions.

Defense lawyers and human rights groups suggest that the allegations, if unanswered, could destroy the tribunal's credibility.

<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->



India - China: Relations And Developments-2 - acharya - 04-11-2009

Addustour, Jordan

China Increasing Forces,
Concealing Military Budget


By Mohammed Said

Translated By Muhammad Youssry

4 April 2009

Edited by Bridgette Blight

Jordan - Addustour - Original Article (Arabic)

The annual report that the Pentagon submitted to Congress reveals that China is seeking to acquire weapons and technology to reduce the traditional advantages of American power, asserting that the secrecy of China's forces is an opportunity for abuse of power on both sides. The report, entitled "Military strength of People's Republic of China for the year 2009," exposes China's efforts to supply its armed forces with weapons that could be used to intimidate and attack Taiwan and challenge the U.S. navy and air force excellence spotted near Chinese territories.

Pentagon spokesman Jeffrey Morel said, "We have argued in the past and still asking for further dialogue and more transparency in dealing with the government and the Chinese army, which is a part of efforts to reduce the uncertainty by both sides."

He added that the report should be viewed as an invitation "to a deeper and a broader communication at the highest level with the Chinese side." The report presents how the Chinese military modernized over the past year, with a special focus on Taiwan, which China regards as a separated territory. The report notes that China has set up a missile system facing Taiwan, but concludes that relations between the two sides have eased in the last year. The report also indicates that China cannot distribute or instruct even a small number of combat units beyond its borders before 2015.

China protested against the continuing military threat theory and strongly protested the report, considering it interference in its internal affairs.

Quoted by the New China News Agency “Xinhua”, Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesman Qin Gang said, "We delivered our plain protest to the U.S. government… The report disseminates the Chinese military threat theory continuation in a serious distortion of facts; which also considered interfering in its internal affairs. China is consistently adhered to the path based on peaceful development and is pursuing a national defense policy of a pure defensive in nature."

Gang pointed out that China is devoting its efforts to safeguard the international peace and stability. He added, "We urge the U.S. side to respect this basic fact."

The Chinese official said, "The United States must get rid of cold war and prejudice notions, stop issuing such untrue reports of the Chinese army, and stop playing the blame game to avoid further harm that might affect the relations between the two countries.”

The U.S. report assures that China will not be able to deploy or maintain a large number of its troops in combat operations in areas far away from China until the next decade.

He pointed out that Chinese troops seemed to adopt updated programs that include the ability to fight and win small conflicts using modern weapons near to the Chinese territories.

The report notes that, in order to reduce traditional advantages of the United States, China has invested in new technologies in space and electronic war, as well as updating its nuclear arsenal and missile. He pointed out that the Chinese military is also expanding and improving their submarines fleets that are equipped with ballistic missiles. Also, China hopes to build a number of aircraft carriers.

The military budget:

The report shows China’s secrecy. It says that China needs to practice transparency, especially in its military budget. The Chinese military budget has doubled since 2000 from $27.9 billion to $60.1 billion.

U.S. officials believe that the Chinese do not honestly declare the full amount spent on security. Therefore, they believe that the military budget for 2008 was between $105 and $150 billion. The report reviews what the Chinese army did for relief and rescue missions. During the period from 2002 to 2007 the army participated in 14 search and rescue missions. They also participated in 10 emergency relief missions in 14 countries.

It points out that China sold $7 billion in traditional weapons to countries around the world, mostly Pakistan, from 2003 to 2007.

Notably enough, military relations between the United States and China reached peak levels before declining recently.

On the other hand, relations have begun to recover after Beijing's anger in reaction to the sale of $6 billion in advanced weapons to Taiwan.





India - China: Relations And Developments-2 - acharya - 04-11-2009

Creaders, China
Do Chinese Immigrants View America Differently Due to the Crisis?
By Nao Zhong
Translated By Yaqing Wen
26 March 2009
Edited by Louis Standish
China - Creaders - Original Article (Chinese)
Recently, every conversation I have had with friends seem to revolve around the financial meltdown, and I have noticed an interesting phenomenon: those who have not shown any interest American politics before are now well versed in all of Obama’s domestic policies; those who had been eager to witness America’s decline and public humiliation are no longer dare to think those thoughts; those patriots who had wished for China alone to prosper and overtake the capitalist empire of the United States are now hoping for Obama to succeed as well; Chinese immigrants who before had only loved China are beginning to embrace the U.S. as well.

Why the Sudden Change?

There are some who never wish the U.S. well, either due to prejudice or because they are preoccupied with their affairs in China and cannot relate to the economic environment in America. These are not the type of people I wish to talk about today.

Then there are others who are only in the U.S. for the exotic and foreign culture, who plan on leaving in two to three years and develop more in China. These people also do not care much about the rise and fall of the U.S.

Most of the remaining immigrants have careers, homes, families and children in the U.S. They have been working hard for years or even decades to settle here, and now they have just been met with this crisis. In addition to the unthinkable fear of losing one’s job, things like salary cuts, the rising cost of education and falling property values are enough to pull your hair out. These people, including myself, do not wish for America to continue on its downward spiral.

A friend in the Sino-American textile trade is suffering from lack of sales.

Another friend who usually travels back to China two to three times a year could live in style when the dollar was worth eight yuan. He tell me, “ I’m not going back this year. With the fall of the dollar, going back once almost cuts my bank account in half.”

A friend said in a self-deprecating way, “The U.S. isn’t even finished yet and those in China are already looking down on us who wanted to ‘capture the zeitgeist’ and emigrated the first chance we had. Before, it didn’t even matter how we did in America, we could always brag and be envied. Now, not only are we poor, but we are even laughed at in China. I can’t even face my friend anymore. The only things we have now are more children and faster cars.”

A buddy of mine summed up the grief of immigrants: “When China doesn’t prosper, we face the ridicule of foreigners. When America doesn’t prosper, we face the ridicule of our fellow Chinese people.”

Yet maybe this is the law of nature: the one in charge is the one with money. In the not too distant future, when a dollar is worth just three yuan, or when the plane ticket home cost $2000, who can afford to go back? Don’t even mention trying to buy a house or retiring in China. Count your blessings if you won’t be thought of as a refugee.

These are the reasons we wish for the United States to reclaim its wealth and power.

Think about the day you can no longer afford to travel to China, the day you are forced to lower your standards of living, the day you are constantly berated with the thoughts of paying for your child’s college tuition, paying off the mortgage on your house, trying to sell your house, paying back loans, taking out more loans, maintaining your retirement fund. One catastrophic year has undone decades of hard work. “If America is bad, and only China is good, then where does that leave us?” says a friend, a resident of the United States. “It’s already too late to go back.”

Thus, when we exclaim our patriotic and nationalistic slogans, how many of us really understand the consequences of this crisis? When we debate our loyalty to our motherland or to the land where we live, shouldn’t we also consider our own personal interests as well?

The anticipation many of us feel for the U.S.’s comeback, especially now, far surpasses the hope for China’s prosperity. Does this really mark a shift in our own stance on patriotism?


India - China: Relations And Developments-2 - G.Subramaniam - 04-14-2009

Some excerpts from John Garver

1. The KMT under Chiang Kai Shek also laid claims to Arunachal Pradesh as early as 1935
( This sort of follows Jadunath Sarkars conclusion on chinese as cunning imperialists who will make a claim even after 2000 years )
The longer the commies rule PRC, the better, since they are more incompetent than the Taiwanese

2. Mao, in the 1950s sent off most of the chinese harvest to Russia in exchange for Russian help in setting up a defense industrial complex
and in exchange the Russians equipped his army to warsaw pact standards ( far superior to Indian Army ww2 )
( also during chinese civil war, the Russians equipped Mao )


3. Kruschev needed Mao's help in cuban crisis and OKed the invasion of India
4. During the attack council, Aug 1962, The chinese army claimed a 6:1
advantage, 1 lakh warsaw pact level troops were thrown against 20k ill equipped Indian army
5. In 1960, Mao was prepared to give up claims to Arunachal in exchange for Aksai chin
6. In 1986, Deng upped the claim to both Aksai Chin and Arunachal
with a minimum claim of Tawang
7. In 1960, China settled the Myanmar border along the Mcmahon line
( mountain top line )

---

Some other characteristics of the chinese
1. They follow a mythic yellow emperor
2. They are as expansionist as islam, but more cunning
3. They married off chinese princesses to barbarians to sinify them
these days they are marrying off their women to whites esp white leadership
4. Highly receptive to xtianity
5. DNA shows that north chinese invaded south china, killed off the men, and raped the women
6. Yunnan province in south west china came under chinese rule during the Mongol period. Prior to this, there were indic kingdoms in this area
The Ahoms of Assam were refugees from chinese imperialism in Yunnan
7. Just like islam, china has usurped indic kingdoms in Xinjiang, Yunnan, Vietnam etc
8. The chinese diaspora has strong extra-territorial loyalties like the islamic ummah. Thousands of them are doing espionage etc

9. Since at least 500 AD, china has been annexing Indic kingdoms and we dumb hindus used to think of them as friends

10. Since about 900 AD, there has been a strong anti-buddhist anti-Indian influence drive in China

11. Kruschev gave nukes to china, ( 98% of the design )
Klaus Fuchs personally trained the chinese nuclear engineers


India - China: Relations And Developments-2 - G.Subramaniam - 04-15-2009

Orbat.com has some British era documents showing that Qing attempted to annex Aksai Chin in 1865


India - China: Relations And Developments-2 - Guest - 04-15-2009

link<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->W. H. Johnson, a civil servant with the Survey of India proposed the "Johnson Line" (also known as the "Johnson-Ardagh Line") in 1865, which puts Aksai Chin in Kashmir.[3] This line was never presented to the Chinese[3]. Johnson presented this line to the Maharaja of Kashmir, who then claimed the 18,000 square kilometres contained within.[3] The British government had some doubts on the validity of the Johnson Line[4][3] and Johnson was censured[5], but the Chinese had already Shahidulla in 1890 before the issue was decided[3]. By 1892, China had erected boundary markets at Karakoram Pass.[4]

At this time, Britain and China were allies and Britain was principally concerned that Aksai Chin not fall into Russian hands.[3] When China showed an interest in Aksai Chin, Britain proposed a revised boundary, called the MacCartney-Macdonald Line, which puts most of Aksai Chin in Chinese territory.[3]. This border, which set the border along the Karakoram Mountains, was proposed and supported by British officials for a number of reasons. The Karakoram Mountains formed a natural boundary, which would set the British borders up to the Indus River watershed while leaving the Tarim River watershed in Chinese control, and Chinese control of this tract would present a further obstacle to Russian advance in Central Asia.[5] In 1899, the British presented this line to the Chinese, who raised no objection to it.[3] This line is approximately the same as the current Line of Actual Control.[3] Both lines were used on British maps of India
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->


India - China: Relations And Developments-2 - Guest - 04-18-2009

<b>Mao sperm ad angers Chinese</b><!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->
  China's official media and outspoken bloggers on Friday protested over a German advert promoting the use of condoms which shows revolutionary leader Mao Zedong as a sperm cell alongside Adolf Hitler and Osama bin Laden.
The Communist Party's People's Daily devoted a page to the storm, quoting internet commentaries which called for the makers of the advert to apologise to China.

The Global Times newspaper said advertising agency Grey Worldwide, which made <b>the safe sex advert for Doc Morris Pharmacies, had sent a letter of apology to the Chinese consulate in Frankfurt.</b>

<b>The campaign showing Mao, Hitler and Bin Laden as human spermatozoids has sparked a debate in China</b> and among international blogging. Not all Chinese appear to agree with the official line of anger.

"I am a former worker who is now 70. I have thought about it a lot and I still cannot understand why these people defend Mao so strongly," said one comment on the sina.com website.

<b>Last year, French car maker Peugeot Citroen apologised for using an advert in Spain which showed Mao as a cross-eyed old man</b>.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->


India - China: Relations And Developments-2 - G.Subramaniam - 04-19-2009

Yunnan had hindu kingdoms until 1300

Since the time of the Han empire, China has been a relentlessly expansionist power, expanding south and west

Everything south of the Yangtze river and east of the great wall, was inhabited by Tais, Laos, Hmong, Vietnamese, Mongols, Manchus, etc

All these have been forcibly sinicized and men murdered and women raped
( as per DNA )


India - China: Relations And Developments-2 - Guest - 06-10-2009

<b>Chinese incursions into Indian territory rose sharply in 2008</b>

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->NEW DELHI: Chinese incursions into Indian territory peaked in 2008, with 270 "violations" being recorded in the western, middle and eastern sectors. In 2009, they appear to have let up a little on the aggression front, with a little over 60 violations occurring thus far. Chinese violations made headlines last year, signalling a belligerence that made India jittery.


<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->


India - China: Relations And Developments-2 - dhu - 06-25-2009

INDIA AND CHINA

The cultural relations between India and China can be traced back to very early times. There are numerous references to China in Sanskrit texts, but their chronology is sketchy. The Mahabharata refers to China several times, including a reference to presents brought by the Chinese at the Rajasuya Yajna of the Pandavas; also, the Arthasastra and the Manusmriti mention China. According to French art historian, Réné Grousset, the name China comes from “an ancient” Sanskrit name for the regions to the east, and not, as often supposed, from the name of the state of Ch’in, the first dynasty established by Shih Huang Ti in 221 BC. The Sanskrit name Cina for China could have been derived from the small state of that name in Chan-si in the northwest of China, which flourished in the fourth century BC. Scholars have pointed out that the Chinese word for lion, shih, used long before the Chin dynasty, was derived from the Sanskrit word, simha, and that the Greek word for China, Tzinista, used by some later writers, appears to be derivative of the Sanskrit Chinasthana. According to Terence Duke, martial arts went from India to China. Fighting without weapons was a specialty of the ancient kshatriya warriors of India. Both Arnold Toynbee and Sir L. Wooley speak of a ready made culture coming to China. That was the Vedic culture of India.
Until recently, India and China had coexisted peacefully for over two thousand years. This amicable relationship may have been nurtured by the close historical and religious ties of Buddhism, introduced to China by Indian monks at a very early stage of their respective histories, although there are fragmentary records of contacts anterior to the introduction of Buddhism.
Gerolamo Emilio Gerini (1860 -1913) has said: «During the three or four centuries, preceding the Christian era, we find Hindu dynasties established by adventurers, claiming descent from the kshatriya potentates of northern India, ruling in upper Burma, in Siam and Laos, in Yunnan and Tonkin, and even in most parts of southeastern China». The Chinese literature of the third century is full of geographic and mythological elements derived from India. «I see no reason to doubt, — comments Arthur Waley in his book, The Way and its Power, — that the ‘holy mountain-men’ (sheng-hsien) described by Lieh Tzu are Indian rishi; and when we read in Chuang Tzu of certain Taoists who practiced movements very similar to the asanas of Hindu yoga, it is at least a possibility that some knowledge of the yoga technique which these rishi used had also drifted into China».

Chinese early religion was based on nature and had many things in common with Vedic Hinduism, with a pantheon of deities.
«Never before had China seen a religion so rich in imagery, so beautiful and captivating in ritualism and so bold in cosmological and metaphysical speculations. Like a poor beggar suddenly halting before a magnificent storehouse of precious stones of dazzling brilliancy and splendor, China was overwhelmed, baffled and overjoyed. She begged and borrowed freely from this munificent giver. The first borrowings were chiefly from the religious life of India, in which China’s indebtedness to India can never be fully told». (D. P. Singhal, India and World Civilization).
Arnold Hermann Ludwig Heeren (1760-1842) an Egyptologist and author of Historical researches into the politics, intercourse, and trade of the Carthaginians, Ethiopians, and Egyptians observes that «the name China is of Hindu origin and came to us from India».
«M. de Guigues says that Magadha was known to the Chinese by the name Mo-kiato, and its capital was recognized by both its Hindu name Kusumpura, for which the Chinese wrote Kia-so-mo-pon-lo and Pataliputra, out of which they made Patoli-tse by translating putra, which means son in Sanskrit, into their own corresponding word, tse. Such translation of names has thrown a veil of obscurity over many a name of Hindu origin. Hindu geography has suffered a great loss». (Journal of the Royal Asiatic Society, Volume V).
Lin Yutang (1895-1976) author of The Wisdom of China and India wrote: «The contact with poets, forest saints and the best wits of the land, the glimpse into the first awakening of Ancient India’s mind as it searched, at times childishly and naively, at times with a deep intuition, but at all times earnestly and passionately, for the spiritual truths and the meaning of existence — this experience must be highly stimulating to anyone, particularly because the Hindu culture is so different and therefore so much to offer». Not until we see the richness of the Hindu mind and its essential spirituality can we understand India». «India was China’s teacher in religion and imaginative literature, and the world’s teacher in trignometry, quandratic equations, grammar, phonetics, Arabian Nights, animal fables, chess, as well as in philosophy, and that she inspired Boccaccio, Goethe, Herder, Schopenhauer, Emerson, and probably also old Aesop».
Sir William Jones (1746-1794) came to India as a judge of the Supreme Court at Calcutta. He pioneered Sanskrit studies. His admiration for Indian thought and culture was almost limitless. He says that the Chinese assert their Hindu origin.
Amaury de Reincourt (1918 - ) was born in Orleans, France. He received his B.A. from the Sorbonne and his M.A. from the University of Algiers. He is author of several books including The American empire and The Soul of India, he wrote: «The Chinese travelers’ description of life in India… reveals great admiration from all concerned for the remarkable civilization displayed under their eyes».
«India sent missionaries, China sending back pilgrims. It is a striking fact that in all relations between the two civilizations, the Chinese were always the recipient and the Indian the donor». «Indian influence prevailed over the Chinese, and for evident reasons: an undoubted cultural superiority owing to much greater philosophic and religious insight, and also to a far more flexible script» (Amaury de Riencourt, The Soul of India).

It is well known that in the Mahabharata the Cinas appear with the Kiratas among the armies of king Bhagadatta of Pragjyotisa or Assam. In the Sabhaparvan this king is described as surrounded by the Kiratas and the Cinas. In the Bhismaparvan, the corps of Bhagadatta, consisting of the Kirtas and the Cinas of yellow color, appeared like a forest of Karnikaras. It is significant that the Kiratas represented all the people living to the east of India in the estimation of the geographers of the Puranas. Even the dwellers of the islands of the Eastern Archipelago were treated as Kiratas in the Epics. The reference to their wealth of gold, silver, gems, sandal, aloewood, textiles and fabrics clearly demonstrates their association with the regions included in Suvarnadvipa. Thus, the connection of the Kiratas and Cinas is a sure indication of the fact that the Indians came to know of the Chinese through the eastern routes and considered them as an eastern people, having affinities to the Kiras, who were the Indo-Mongoloids, inhabiting the Tibeto-Burman regions and the Himalayan and East Indian territories, the word Kirata being a derivation from kiranti or kirati, the name of a group of people in eastern Nepal.
In early Indian literature China is invariably shown to be connected with India by a land-route across the country of the Kiratas in the mountainous regions of the north. In the Vanaparvan of the Mahabharata the Pandava brothers are said to have crossed the country of the Cinas in course of their trek through the Himalayan territory north of Badri and reached the realm of the Kirata king Subahu. The Cinas are brought into intimate relationship with the Himalayan people (Haimavatas) in the Sabhaparvan also. The land of the Haimavatas is undoubtedly the Himavantappadesa of the Pali texts, which has been identified with Tibet or Nepal. In the Sasanavamsa this region is stated to be Cinarattha. Thus, it is clear that China was known to the Indians as lying across the Himalayas and was accordingly included in the Himalayan territories. In the Nagarjunikonda inscription of Virapurusdatta, China (Cina) is said to be lying in the Himalayas beyond Cilata or Kirata. These references to the proximity of China to the Himalayan regions, inhabited by the Kiratas, show that there were regular routes through the Tibeto-Burman territories, along which the Indians could reach China.
Some such land-route is implied in the remark of the Harsacarita of Banabhatta that Arjuna conquered the Hemakuta region after passing through Cina. Of course, the route across Central Asia is perhaps alluded to in the itinerary of Carudatta from the Indus Delta to China across the country of the Hunas and the Khasas, described in the Vasudevakindi, and there is probably a reference to the sea-route, passing through Vanga, Takkola and Suvarnadvipa, in the Milindapanho. But there is no doubt that in a large number of ancient Indian texts China is mentioned near the eastern Himalayan regions, through which regular routes, connecting this country with India, passed from fairly early times. It was along these routes that India came into contact with China for the first time and developed commercial relations with her, that are referred to by Chan K’ien in the second century BC.
In Yunnan there is a large number of old pagodas. Some of them are the oldest and most beautiful in China. Their cornices and corner decoration, showing rows of pitchers (mangala ghata), betray unmistakable Indian influence. Many bricks of these pagodas bear Sanskrit inscriptions, containing Buddhist mantras and formulae in a script, which is identical with that current in Nalanda and Kamarupa in the 9th century. The beautiful bronze statue of Avalokitesvara from the pagoda of Ch’ung Sheng Ssu near Ta-li is an index to the high standard of culture and craftsmanship attained by the Buddhists of Yunan.
In earlier times, the people of the east, Magadha and Videha, were in contact with Yunan, as the traditions of Purvavideha show. The two names, Purvavideha and Gandhara, seem to represent these two successive eastern and western streams of Indian colonial and cultural expansion in this region.
Henry Rudolph Davies says that Besides Buddhism, Shaivism was also popular in Yunan as is manifest from the prevalence of the cult of Mahakala there. This ancient Indian colony in the south of China was the cradle of Sino-Indian cultural relationship for a long time.
It was an important outpost of Indian cultural expansion along the eastern land-routes, which Colonel Gerolamo Emilio Gerini (1860 -1913) author of Researches on Ptolemy’s geography of eastern Asia (further India and Indo-Malay archipelago) has described as follows: «During the three or four centuries, preceding the Christian era, we find Indu (Hindu) dynasties established by adventurers, claiming descent from the kshatriya potentates of northern India, ruling in upper Burma, in Siam and Laos, in Yunnan and Tonkin, and even in most parts of southeastern China. From the Brahmaputra and Manipur to the Tonkin Gulf we can trace a continuous string of petty states, ruled by those scion of the kshatriya race, using the Sanskrit or Pali language in official documents or inscriptions; building temples and other monuments after the Indu (Hindu) style and employing Brahmana priests for the propitiatory ceremonies, connected with the court and state. Among such Indu (Hindu) monarchies (Theinni) in Burma, of Muang Hang, C’hieng Rung, Muang Khwan and Dasarna (Luang P’hrah Bang) in the Lau country; and of Agranagara (Hanoi) and Campa in Tonkin and Annan». «The names of peoples and cities, recorded by Ptolemy in that region, however few and imperfectly preserved, are sufficiently significant to prove the presence of the Indu (Hindu) ruling and civilizing element in these countries, undoubtedly not so barbarous as the Chinese would make them appear». «It is evident through the medium of those barbarians that China received part of her civilization through India».
Among these colonies Tagong and upper Pugan were called Mayura; Prome was Sriksetra; Sen-wi (Theinni) was Sivirastra; Muang Hang, Chieng Rung and Muang Khwan were the three divisions of Ching Rung kingdom, which the prince of Yong, named Sunandakumara, united under Mahiyagananagara; Luang P’hrah Bang was Dasarna; Hanoi was Agranagara; Tagaung was Brahmadesa (P’o-o-men), where a Sanskrit inscription, dated in Gupta era 108 – 426 A.D. refers to Hastinapura, situated in that country; and, of course, Yunana was Purvavideha or Gandhara. Thus, from Arakan, where the Mrohaung inscriptions attest the efflorescence of Indian culture, language and literature, to Yunnan, whose history we have traced above, Indian culture made a triumphant advance in ancient time.

China, like Southeast Asia too, was colonized to some extent by the ancient Hindus. The religion and culture of China are undoubtedly of Hindu origin. According to the Hindu theory of emigration, Kshatriyas from India went and established colonies in China. India was known as T'ien-chu to the Chinese.
Colonel James Tod (1782-1835) author of Annals and Antiquities of Rajasthan: or the Central and Western Rajput States of India has written: «The genealogies of China and Tartary declare themselves to be the descendents of ‘Awar’, son of the Hindu King ‘Pururawa’.
According to the traditions noted in the Schuking, the ancestors of the Chinese, conducted by Fohe, come to the plains of China 2,900 years before Christ, from the high mountains Land which lies to the west of that country. This shows that the settlers into China were originally inhabitants of Kashmir, Ladakh, Little Tibet and the Punjab, which were parts of Ancient India».
Kakuzo Okakura, speaking of the missionary activity of Indian Buddhists in China, says that at one time in the single province of Lo-yang there were more than 3,000 Indian monks and 10,000 Indian families to impress their national religion and art on Chinese soil.
Hu Shih, (1891-1962), Chinese philosopher in Republican China. He was ambassador to the U.S. (1938-42) and chancellor of Peking University (1946-48). He said: «India conquered and dominated China culturally for two thousand years without ever having to send a single soldier across her border».
Court Bjornstjerna (1779-1847) author of The Theogony of the Hindoos with their systems of Philosophy and Cosmogony says: «what may be said with certainty is that the religion of China came from India».
Chinese authors, too, according to Mountstuart Elphinstone (1779-1859) noted Indian ambassadors to the court of China.

How China was part of the Indian Vedic empire is explained by Professor G. Phillips on page 585 in the 1965 edition of the Journal of the Royal Asiatic Society. He remarks, «The maritime intercourse of India and China dates from a much earlier period, from about 680 B.C. when the sea traders of the Indian Ocean whose chiefs were Hindus founded a colony called Lang-ga, after the Indian named Lanka of Ceylon, about the present gulf of Kias-Tehoa, where they arrived in vessels having prows shaped like the heads of birds or animals after the pattern specified in the Yukti Kalpataru (an ancient Sanskrit technological text) and exemplified in the ships and boats of old Indian arts».
Chinese historian Dr. Li-Chi also discovered an astonishing resemblance between the Chinese clay pottery and the pottery discovered at Mohenja daro on the Indian continent. Yuag Xianji, member of the Chinese People's Political Consultative Conference, speaking at the C. P. Ramaswamy Aiyar Foundation, Madras, March 27, 1984 said, «Recent discoveries of ruins of Hindu temples in Southeast China provided further evidence of Hinduism in China. Both Buddhism and Hinduism were patronized by the rulers. In the 6th century A.D. the royal family was Hindu for two generations. The following Tang dynasty (7th to the 9th century A.D.) also patronized both Hinduism and Buddhism because the latter was but a branch of Hinduism. Religious wars were unknown in ancient China. There was extensive maritime trade and religious exchanges between India and China at this period (Ad 1-600) and the massive expansion of Indian influence into southern China through Jih-nan and Chiao-chih, in what is now northern Vietnam.
Albert Etienne Terrien de Lacouperie, author of Western Origins of Chinese Civilization states that the maritime intercourse of India with China dates from about 680 B.C. when the sea traders of the Indian ocean whose “Chiefs were Hindus” founded a colony, called Lang-ga, after the Indian name Lanka, about the present gulf of Kiaotchoa… And throughout this period the monopoly of the sea borne trade of China was in their hands».

India had contact with China from the early period through three routes. One was through the Central Asian region, the second was through Yunan and Burma. The third was by sea to the South Indian ports. The Arthasastra, the Mahabharata, and the Manu-Smriti show knowledge of China. Through all these routes trade and Hindu culture passed to China. Indian arts and sciences were carried to China along with Buddhism. Images, rock-cut caves and the fresco paintings show distinctly Indian influence on the Chinese art. Indian astronomy, mathematics and medicine were spread in China by the scholars who visited it. Several Sanskrit works on these sciences were translated into Chinese.
Chushu-King, a Chinese monk started for India in 260 A.D. But he returned from Khotan. Fa-hien, the first Chinese pilgrim to India stayed here during the Gupta period for some years. Che-mong another monk accompanied by a few others spent 20 years (404-424) in the pilgrimage of India. Hieun Tsang and I-Tsing during the 7th century are well-known. On his return to China, Hiuen Tsang was given a great national welcome by his emperor and the people as well.

The famous Shao-lin style of boxing is also attributed to Indian influence. Bodhidharma, (8th century AD) who believed in a sound mind in a sound body, taught the monks in the Shao-lin temple this style of boxing for self-defense for rejuvenating the body after exacting meditation and mental concentration.
According to the History channel martial arts were introduced in China by an Indian named Bodhidharma, who taught it to the monks so that they could defend their monasteries. He was also said to have introduced the concept of vital energy or chi (prana corresponds to this). This concept is the basis acupuncture.

The University of Nalanda built in the 4th century BCE was one of the greatest achievements of ancient India in the field of education. The Chinese scholar and traveler Hiuen Tsang (600-654 AD) stayed at the Nalanda University in the 7th century, and has left an elaborate description of the excellence, and purity of monastic life practiced here. He found Indians “high-minded, upright and honorable”.
China received Mahayanic Buddhism and Sanskrit texts from the Central-Asian provinces of India in 67 A.D. After that China became Hinduized not only in theology and metaphysics, but in every department of thought and activity. Thousands of Hindus lived in Chinese cities, eg. at Changan in the N.W. and at Canton on the sea, as priests, teachers, merchants, physicians, sculptors and "interpreters." The name of Chinese tourists, students, philosophers, and translators, also, in India is legion. The Chinese founded their drama on Hindu precedents, imported musical instruments (stringed) from India, and introduced even some of the acrobatic feats, dances and sports prevalent among the Hindus.
During his Indian tour the great Itsing (634-712) mastered Hindu medicine at the University of Nalanda. Hindu mathematics and logic were cultivated among the intellectuals of China; Sanskrit treatises on painting and art criticism, eg. Sadamga (six limbs of painting) in Vatsayana's Kamasutra (erotics), Chitralaksana (marks of painting), etc. furnished the canons of the Chinese art during its greatest epoch (Tang and Sung Dynasties 600-1250); and the traditional Confucianism had to be reinterpreted, eg. by Chu-Hsi (1130-1200) in the light of the imported Hindu philosophy. China became a part of “Greater India” in poetry, aesthetics, folk-festivals, morals, manners, and sentiments. The “Augustan Age” of Chinese culture, the age of the mighty Tangs and brillant Sungs, was the direct outcome of the ‘holy alliance’ for centuries between India and China.

In conclusion, it can be said that China was more influenced by India than India by China. Whilst Chinese monks came to acquire knowledge and take it back, the Indian monks went to China on specific religious missions to impart knowledge. There is hardly any evidence that the Chinese monks brought with them any work which was translated into an Indian language. It seems that during this period of Sino-Indian contact, the psychological atmosphere was one in which India was naturally accepted as the giver and China as the taker. Whilst the best in Indian thought was carefully studied and carried back to China, Chinese ideas filtered through India whether they represented the best of their culture or not.
According to Jawaharlal Nehru in his book The Discovery of India
«The most famous of the Chinese travelers to India was Hsuang Tsang who came in the seventh century when the great T'sang dynasty flourished in China and King Harshavardhana ruled over in North India. Hsuang-Tsang took a degree of Master of the Law at Nalanda University and finally became vice-principal of the university».
His book the Si-Yu-Ki or the Record of the Western Kingdom (meaning India), makes fascinating reading. He tells us of the system of the university where the five branches of knowledge were taught. 1. Grammar 2. Science of Arts and Crafts 3. Medicine 4. Logic and 5. Philosophy. Hsuan-Tsang was particularly struck by the love of learning of the Indian people. Many Indian classics have been preserved in Chinese translation relating not only to Buddhism but also to Hinduism, astronomy, mathematics, medicine, etc. There are supposed to be 8,00 such works in the Sung-pao collection in China. Tibet is also full of them. There used to be frequent co-operation between Indian, Chinese and Tibetan scholars. A notable instance of this co-operation, still extant, is a Sanskrit-Tibetan-Chinese dictionary of Buddhist technical terms. This dates from the ninth century and is named the ‘Mahavyutpatti.’
Soon after Hsuan-Tsang's death in China, yet another famous pilgrim made the journey to India — I-tsing (or Yi-tsing). He also studied at Nalanda University for a long time and carried back several hundred Sanskrit texts. He refers to India as the West (Si-fang), but he tells us that it was known as Aryadesha — arya means noble, and desha region — the noble region. It is so called because men of noble character appear there successively, and people all praise the land by that name. It is also called the Madhyadesha - the middle land, for it is in the center of a hundred myriads of countries.
Yet Chinese culture had some influence on India. The gabled roofs of houses on the western coast of India show a Chinese influence, as do the temples and houses in the Himalayan regions. Some Chinese influence is noted on Gupta coins. The use of a certain kind of silk (china-msuka) in India, different kinds of fruits including pears (cinaraja-putra), peaches (cinani), and lichis, the technique of fishing in the backwaters, and the porcelain industry all owe something to Chinese influence. Indians also learned the art of papermaking from China.




India - China: Relations And Developments-2 - acharya - 06-25-2009

http://www.jamestown.org/programs/chinabri...ngle/?tx_ttnews[tt_news]=35172&tx_ttnews[backPid]=25&cHash=4b06ac06a9
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->

What Guidance Do Chinese Thinkers Draw from Mahan?

Long stigmatized in China for advocating imperialism and colonialism, Mahan has inspired a flurry of interest in Chinese scholarly and policy circles. Studies parsing terms like “command of the sea” (zhihaiquan) and “command of communications” (zhijiaotongquan) have proliferated. Some neo-Mahanians appear spellbound by the American theorist’s oft-cited description of command of the sea as “that overbearing power on the sea which drives the enemy’s flag from it, or allows it to appear only as a fugitive.” Indeed, this bellicose-sounding phrase is by far the most common Mahan quotation to appear in Chinese commentary.

Strikingly, Imperial Japan has emerged as a model for PLAN development. Ni Lexiong, a professor of political science at the Shanghai Institute of Political Science and Law, faults the Qing Dynasty for being insufficiently Mahanian in its 1894-1895 naval tilt against Japan. China, says Ni, should bear in mind that Mahan “believed that whoever could control the sea would win the war and change history; that command of the sea is achieved through decisive naval battles on the seas; that the outcome of decisive naval battles is determined by the strength of fire power on each side of the engagement” [2]. That distinguished analysts now pay tribute to Japanese sea power marks a stunning reversal in Chinese strategic thought.

Like Mahan, Chinese thinkers connect thriving commerce with naval primacy. In the respected Zhongguo Junshi Kexue, Major (Ret.) General Jiang Shiliang, then chief of the PLA General Logistics Department, invokes him to justify Chinese control of “strategic passages” traversed by vital goods. For Jiang, the contest for “absolute command” is a fact of life in international politics [3]. In a similar vein, Beijing’s 2004 Defense White Paper instructs the armed forces to “strengthen the capabilities for winning both command of the sea and command of the air” [4]. This remains the clearest statement of China’s Mahanian outlook.
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->



India - China: Relations And Developments-2 - G.Subramaniam - 06-26-2009

Statesman.net

Is Nazi China rising?

For years I have maintained that China’s People’s Liberation Army is a government within the government. I have repeatedly pointed out that the actions of the Beijing government betray attributes of Nazi Germany.
On 1 September 2004 in an article entitled The Real Axis of Evil I wrote, “China has emerged as a corporate version of Nazi Germany.” Now speeches purportedly by the former Defence Minister and Vice-Chairman of China’s Central Military Commission, Chi Haotian, have come to my notice. The text of one speech is reproduced below. It confirms the worst fears about the Beijing regime. But is the speech authentic?
Chi Haotian’s speeches were posted on Chinese language websites, www.peacehall.com on 15 February 2005 and on www.boxun.com on 23 April 2005. The contents of the speeches have not been contradicted by official sources in China. The background of the posted speeches remains a mystery. The titles of the two speeches are War is approaching us and War is not far from us and is the Midwife of the Chinese Century. An article by San Renxing in the Falun Gong owned Epoch Times of 8 August, 2005 entitled The CCP’s Last-ditch Gamble: Biological and Nuclear War has analysed the speeches to judge authenticity.
Renxing, a staffer, wrote: “I will focus on verifying the authenticity of the speech… Looking at the speech in isolation, the words and logic both reflect deep understanding of the ‘Party culture’ represented by Mao Zedong, Deng Xiaoping, Jiang Zemin and Hu Jintao. Also mixed in are the fascist teachings of He Xin, a new favourite of the CCP’s… For example, the speech cited Mao’s ideas of leading the allies to victory, ‘When they benefit from alliance with you, they will support you’, to defend the ‘Three Represents’ proposed by Jiang Zemin. This is a very faithful interpretation… The speech also says, ‘The population, even if more than half dies, can be reproduced. But if the Party falls, everything is gone, and forever gone!’ This is almost identical to Mao’s theory on nuclear war, in which he suggested killing half of the Chinese people and leaving the other 300 million to build communism… Some people might think that we can’t establish the authenticity of the speech just because Mao said something similar. Coincidentally, at this critical moment, Professor (General) Zhu Chenghu of the National Defense University jumped out and announced to the world very loudly that if the Untied States got involved in a war between Taiwan and Mainland China, China would be the first to use nuclear weapons and wipe out hundreds of cities in the United States, even at the cost of losing every city east of Xi’An. In an unpublished speech by Professor Zhu, he also revealed that the CCP will store enough nuclear weapons to destroy half of the human race… Despite most people’s unrealistic fantasies about the CCP, he showed what the CCP is really about and authenticated Chi Haotian’s speech… A low-ranking general would not say such arrogant things without the implicit approval of the CCP’s ‘board of directors’… It’s not that the United States doesn’t know who is the true source of disasters in this world and who the undisputed axis of evil is. Who is the forerunner and consistent sponsor of terrorism? Who is spreading nuclear weapons to North Korea, Iran, and Libya through Pakistan? Who is instigating Kim Jong-Il, Osama Bin Laden…?”
The following are some extracts from the speech by Chi Haotian:
“As everybody knows, according to the views propagated by the Western scholars, humanity as a whole originated from one single mother in Africa. Therefore, no race can claim racial superiority. However, according to the research conducted by most Chinese scholars, the Chinese are different from other races on earth. We did not originate in Africa. Instead, we originated independently in the land of China. The Peking Man at Zhoukoudian that we are all familiar with represents a phase of our ancestors’ evolution… Therefore, we can assert that we are the product of cultural roots of more than a million years, civilisation and progress of more than ten thousand years, an ancient nation of five thousand years, and a single Chinese entity of two thousand years. This is the Chinese nation that calls itself, ‘descendents of Yan and Huang’, the Chinese nation that we are so proud of. Hitler’s Germany had once bragged that the German race was the most superior race on Earth, but the fact is, our nation is far superior to the Germans… Will the centre of the world civilisation shift back to China…?
“Nazi Germany also placed much emphasis on the education of the people… aimed at instilling into the people’s minds… that German people are superior… Nonetheless, Germany was defeated in utter shame, along with its ally, Japan. Why? We reached some conclusions at the study meetings of the Politburo… When we decide to revitalise China based on the German model, we must not repeat the mistakes they made…
“Specifically… they did not adhere to the principle of eliminating enemies one at a time… the fundamental reason for the defeats of Germany and Japan is that history did not arrange them to be the ‘lords of the earth’, for they are, after all, not the most superior race…
“As Comrade Jiang Zemin put it, Germany belongs to ‘ ‘pediatrics’ ~ too trivial to be compared. How large is Germany’s population? How big is its territory? And how long is its history? We eliminated eight million Nationalist troops in only three years. How many enemies did Germany kill…? Our Chinese people are wiser than the Germans because, fundamentally, our race is superior to theirs. As a result, we have a longer history, more people, and larger land area…
“The bottom line is, only China, not Germany, is a reliable force in resisting the Western parliament-based democratic system. Hitler’s dictatorship in Germany was perhaps but a momentary mistake in history…
“Comrade Mao Zedong taught us that we must have a resolute and correct political orientation. What is our key, correct orientation? It is to solve the issue of America… Comrade He Xin asserted in his report to the Party Central Committee… only by breaking the blockade formed by the western countries headed by the United States can China grow and move towards the world… Would the United States allow us to go out to gain new living space? First, if the United States is firm in blocking us, it is hard for us to do anything significant to Taiwan and some other countries! Second, even if we could snatch some land from Taiwan, Vietnam, India, or even Japan, how much more living space can we get? Very trivial! Only countries like the United States, Canada and Australia have the vast land to serve our need for mass
colonisation… Therefore, solving the ‘issue of America’ is the key to solving all other issues…
“In history, when a country defeated another country or occupied another country, it could not kill all the people in the conquered land, because back then you could not kill people effectively with sabers or long spears, or even with rifles or machine-guns… Only by using special means to ‘clean up’ America will we be able to lead the Chinese people there… What kind of special means is there available for us to ‘clean up’ America? Conventional weapons such as fighters, canons, missiles and battleships won’t do; neither will highly destructive weapons such as nuclear weapons. We are not as foolish as to want to perish together with America by using nuclear weapons… Only by using non-destructive weapons that can kill many people will we be able to reserve America for ourselves. There has been rapid development of modern biological technology, and new bio-weapons have been invented one after another. Of course we have not been idle; in the past years we have seized the opportunity to master weapons of this kind. We are capable of achieving our purpose of ‘cleaning up’ America all of a sudden… Biological weapons are unprecedented in their ruthlessness, but if the Americans do not die then the Chinese have to die… If, however, the attack fails and triggers a nuclear retaliation from the United States, China would perhaps suffer a catastrophe in which more than half of its population would perish. That is why we need to be ready with air defence systems for our big and medium-sized cities. Whatever the case may be, we can only move forward fearlessly for the sake of our Party… The population, even if more than half dies, can be reproduced. But if the Party falls, everything is gone, and forever gone…”
This speech appears to represent a powerful stream of thought in the Chinese government. General Zhu’s nuclear threat invited a mild reprimand from the Beijing government. Why does Beijing remain mum before General Chi Haotian, former Defence Minister and Vice Chairman of the Central Military Commission up till 2003? President Hu Jintao may be titular Chairman of China’s powerful Central Military Commission. But he never served in the army. Chi Haotian is a former army general. So who calls the shots in China ~ the Party or the PLA?

The writer is a veteran columnist and cartoonist


India - China: Relations And Developments-2 - ramana - 06-27-2009

Dhu, Very good historical background on influence of India on China. So even the name China was given by India.