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Religion, Caste And Tribe Based Reservation - 3 - Printable Version
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Religion, Caste And Tribe Based Reservation - 3 - Printable Version

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Religion, Caste And Tribe Based Reservation - 3 - Guest - 05-19-2006

I wonder if Arjun Singh ever goes to hospital and says "<i>I insist a Dalit doctor treat me</i>" or Paswan goes "<i>Muslim pilots on my chopper onlee please</i>"?
Or they want best Indians irrespective of caste/religion treating or flying them around?


Religion, Caste And Tribe Based Reservation - 3 - Guest - 05-19-2006

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Interesting spin. It eej Arjun Singh onlee and Soniaji and MMSji got nothing to do with this. But ofcourse Soniaji will not say anything in public and will always be whispers which will be picked up by Shilaji as if by magic..<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Shilaji is saying Sonia and MMS are deaf and dumb. We know MMS is dumb and spineless, but hey Queen is still in control.

Why no extention for Kalam? He is OBC and minority.


Religion, Caste And Tribe Based Reservation - 3 - Guest - 05-19-2006

No comment
<!--emo&:roll--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/ROTFL.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='ROTFL.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Dear Prof Kancha,

     Greetings

I am writing this mail to you with great hope.

Sir, it was your book ' Why I am not a Hindu' that i read first when I joined JNU for MA in August 2001. Since then I have lost my peace of mind, career of my parents choice  and have debt of about 30 thousand on my head (due to short lived venture INSIGHT). So to repay this debt, after my father's death, I have taken up a job. Still your book never let me to choose 'lucrative' jobs but be satisfied with a job that is part of our movement.

I am not the only one whom you have so 'adversly' affected. Atleast I know two more cases where students like me 'suffered' because they got affected by your writings and thoughts.

1. One of my friend was thrown out of CSCS banglore because he wanted to work on your writings but his teachers thought that you are not a scholar but mere pamphleteer. But friend of mine is pretty confirmed that you are scholar of first grade. So now being thrown out of the institue he is roaming here and there to get admission.

2. Second friend of mine was told by his guide to remove your name from his English PHD synopsis bibiliography. Again the reason was that this guide of his considered you a mere pamphleteer. This friend of mine was little smart as he quietly listened to his guide's diatribe against you and then had heartly laugh while narrating the story to us. We felt so happy that your name is terror to Indian Accademia. Still this friend of mine gets nightmares whether he will be able to get his Phd or not.

Sir, like this you and your writings might have 'badly' affected many of our youngsters through out the length and breadth of the country. They might have become restless and eager to fight for our cause, against brahminism, against caste system with out caring about their lives, families and careers.

But they cant do much. They might be getting frustrated, sad and dejected.
They are unable to use their full potential, talents and channelise energies due to lack of any worthy platform, role models, leaders.

Our creativity is yet to be tapped.

In my humble opinion the reason is that

Our intellectualls do tell the path and goal but are not there when we initiate moving towards that goal.

They tell us to organise but forget to tell how to organise.

They tell us to fight but forget to tell how to fight

So all our youths' time is spent by repeating '"organise & Fight'

The same thing is happening now also. More than month had gone since media onslaught on our dignity and blackmail of doctors. Yet there is no reply from our side except chantings of "organise and fight", "organise and fight".

None of us are able to even resort to our democratic right to protest.

But this time Sir, some of us will not sit quitely.

We are definetly going to organise and fight.

But this time you have to pay the price of making us restless and suffer so much that we cant even read newspapers and watch TVs these days unlike millions of our community people doing this daily.

Sir, we want you to be present with us when we start our fight. We want you to be there with us on streets. We want you to be there in educational institutations where we will visit and mobilise our students. We want you to lead us.

*THE SAME IS TRUE FOR ALL OUR OTHER INTELLECTUALS - Prof GOPAL GURU, VTR, PROF THORAT, DR. VIVEK KUMAR, DR. TULSI RAM, DR RAMAIAH, DR SURYAKANT WAGHMARE, DR NANDU RAM, DR. WANKHEDE, MUDRARAKSHA, MR RAJENDRA YADAVA, MADAM THORAT, RUTH MONARMA, BAMA, RAJNI TILAK, CHANDRABHAN PRASAD, AND MANY OTHERS.*

**

*Then there are many intellectuals like SHARMILA REGE, SUSIE THARU, UMA
CHAKARVARTI, PROF SHIVA SHANKAR  who are also culprits of creating
restlessness among youths,*

So now you all cannot disown us. There is no other alternative for all of you except to come with us on streets and lead us.

BECAUSE YOU ALL HAVE MADE YOUNGSTERS RESTLESS, ANGRY AND EAGER TO FIGHT BACK.

many many regards to all

xxx  kumar

JNU
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--emo&:roll--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/ROTFL.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='ROTFL.gif' /><!--endemo-->


Religion, Caste And Tribe Based Reservation - 3 - Guest - 05-20-2006

<!--emo&:argue--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/argue.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='argue.gif' /><!--endemo--> 'Increasing seats in elite institutions not a solution'



RSS Feeds| SMS NEWS to 8888 for latest updates

BANGALORE: Infosys Chairman N R Narayana Murthy on Friday said increasing the number of seats in central elite institutions was not the solution to the reservation issue.

"This (increasing the seats) is not the solution for reservation. Before talking about increasing the seats, the government should talk to the directors of the institutes and find out if they have enough resources," he said.

"And let me tell you, in a country like India, rather than debating on the issue, we should concentrate more on primary education and provide students with more nutrition, books and other facilities," he said.

The response of Murthy, who is also chairman of the governing body of IIM, Ahmedabad, came in reply to a query about the Centre's proposal to scale up the number of seats in institutions such as IITs and IIMs to break the logjam over reservation.

Earlier, Murthy launched "USHA's", a quarterly newsletter from the Usha School of Athletics founded by former athlete P T Usha, at the Infosys campus on the city outskirts.



Religion, Caste And Tribe Based Reservation - 3 - Guest - 05-20-2006

<!--QuoteBegin-Capt Manmohan Kumar+May 20 2006, 02:23 AM-->QUOTE(Capt Manmohan Kumar @ May 20 2006, 02:23 AM)<!--QuoteEBegin--><!--emo&:argue--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/argue.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='argue.gif' /><!--endemo-->  'Increasing seats in elite institutions not a solution'



RSS Feeds| SMS NEWS to 8888 for latest updates

BANGALORE: Infosys Chairman N R Narayana Murthy on Friday said increasing the number of seats in central elite institutions was not the solution to the reservation issue.

"This (increasing the seats) is not the solution for reservation. Before talking about increasing the seats, the government should talk to the directors of the institutes and find out if they have enough resources," he said.

"And let me tell you, in a country like India, rather than debating on the issue, we should concentrate more on primary education and provide students with more nutrition, books and other facilities," he said.

The response of Murthy, who is also chairman of the governing body of IIM, Ahmedabad, came in reply to a query about the Centre's proposal to scale up the number of seats in institutions such as IITs and IIMs to break the logjam over reservation.

Earlier, Murthy launched "USHA's", a quarterly newsletter from the Usha School of Athletics founded by former athlete P T Usha, at the Infosys campus on the city outskirts.
[right][snapback]51437[/snapback][/right]
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

But but but Mr. Murthy: Can the DieNASTY led by corrupt alien ITALIAN woman can perpetuate her and her kids' power in enternity if people becomes smart, educated
and find many opportunitis?

How can the DieNasty win forever if people are not divided in the name of caste, and religion?



Religion, Caste And Tribe Based Reservation - 3 - G.Subramaniam - 05-20-2006

Lessons to learn from reaction to reservations
---------------------------------------------

I am focusing on upper caste hindus since they are the most educated lot

1. Upper caste hindus are incredibly greedy and mostly motivated by money
2. These hindus never came to the streets to protest for the last 2 years of anti-hindu activity by UPA
3. What is happening in Nepal is far more dangerous, but until their pocket book is hit, upper caste hindus sleep
4. In a democracy votes matter and it is necessary to keep up the birth rate
Instead these upper caste hindus have under breeded and are electorally irrelevant
5. When I wrote my demography threads, which is of intense national security issue, the level of participation was less than 10% of this reservations thread
6. Upper caste hindus are fools to take the bait of over-reacting to reservations
They have done exactly what the macaulayites have planned

7. This reservation scheme was dreamt up by commies to split hindu society
and unfortunately it has succeeded. Upper caste hindus hate OBC hindus 10 times more intensely than jihadis or missionaries or naxals
8 . Lets look dispassionately , some upper caste youth wont get seats in the
colleges they wanted - big deal in the overall scheme of things
9. Of course reservations are bad, but the emotional reaction by upper castes has played into the hands of anti-hindus
10. Tamil nadu has 70% reservations for 30 years and is not doing too badly
11. Reservations are here to stay, a better strategy would be to divert anger against minority institutions which are exempt from reservations
An OBC hindu takes your college slot versus a jihadi killing you


Religion, Caste And Tribe Based Reservation - 3 - acharya - 05-20-2006


Furore reflects India's caste complexities


By Sanjoy Majumder
BBC News, Delhi

Protesting medical students in India
The proposal is bitterly opposed by students at top universities
A plan to set aside places at some of India's best-known professional colleges for low-caste Indians has bitterly divided the country.

Angry students at elite institutions across the country have been taking to the streets in protest and doctors at major hospitals have gone on strike to show solidarity.

Business leaders and teachers have joined the students in decrying the move saying that it would lead to a drop in academic standards.

But the move also has the support of millions of low-caste Indians who have faced years of social discrimination and are poorly represented in leading professions.

In recent years, low-caste Hindus - who form a significant percentage of the population - have also grown politically influential, particularly in north India.

It is one reason that no political party - from left-leaning socialist parties to centre-right parties such as the Congress and the BJP - can afford to ignore them.

Historic divide

The caste system in India is centuries old and derives from ancient Hinduism.

A complex social order which assigned people a place in the social hierarchy based on their occupation, it has remained entrenched in modern India - particularly in the villages.

Low-caste Indian women
Lower castes have become politically influential in recent years
The very bottom of the social hierarchy is made up of Dalits - once known as untouchables - while the top consists of Brahmins, once the priestly class.

Despite laws banning discrimination, caste violence continues to occur at regular intervals across many parts of the country.

It is also not limited to Hindus - the caste system exists among other religious groups such as Muslims and Sikhs.

However, many argue that over the years their political influence has grown leading to some emancipation.

One of India's leading sociologists, MN Srinivasan, has argued that urbanisation and industrialisation have helped to break down caste barriers to some extent as people moved out of traditional occupations.

More significantly, he argues, many Dalits and tribals were represented in local government bodies after the constitution was amended to set aside a percentage of seats for them.

Increasing quotas

At present, 22.5% of places in government-funded academic institutions are set aside for Dalits and listed tribes who make up roughly 25% of the population.

Rickshaw puller, Calcutta
Social and economic divides still exist across India
Similar "quotas" exist in parliament, state assemblies and local government bodies, as well as government jobs.

The government now wants to set aside an additional 27% of college places for low-caste Indians known as Other Backward Castes (OBCs) as well as some other disadvantaged groups.

The OBCs are placed higher than the Dalits in the caste hierarchy although they do not enjoy any affirmative action benefits except in government jobs - a move that was introduced in 1990 amid violent protests.

But the move has invited a backlash from many who say it will only lead to a lowering of standards at the institutes.

Those opposed to extending them benefits say that the system only benefits those members of the lower castes who are already economically independent or socially powerful.

Sociologist Dipankar Gupta believes the concept of caste has outlived its utility in modern India.

"For the most part, reservations have become a kind of holy cow in public circles.

"Nobody dare question its relevance, and, what is worse, many are more than willing to extend reservations to cover other groups by arguing that they had been victims of some kind of historic injustice," he says.

Cultural capital

But others argue that poverty is not the only issue.

"You must take into account social and cultural deprivation," says political analyst Yogendra Yadav.

Low-caste women in India
Many have been left out of India's economic development
"Along with economic capital, the absence of cultural capital can make a huge difference to people's ability to compete," he adds.

The reason that the issue has taken such an emotive turn is explained in part by the fact that admission into elite professional colleges in India is highly sought and heavily competitive.

Less than 1% of the hundreds of thousands of Indians who apply to get into the colleges every year are successful.

There are only seven Indian Institutes of Technologies, the country's most prestigious engineering colleges, many of whose graduates have flooded Silicon Valley and are leading the country's information technology boom.

And there are a total of 242 medical colleges for the country's billion-strong population.

One proposal being discussed is increasing the numbers so that more people can get in.

But college administrators question whether that will be possible without a massive increase in infrastructure, including quality teaching staff.

Some like Yogendra Yadav believe the only way out is to also bring poor upper-caste and other such groups under the affirmative action umbrella.

Whatever the outcome, the debate illustrates the deep social divisions that still exist in modern-day India.

While the country is one of the world's fastest growing economies, it has still to win the battle over some of its deep-rooted problems.




Religion, Caste And Tribe Based Reservation - 3 - Guest - 05-20-2006

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin--> Dear Friends,
  Jaibheem

Students Campaign for claim on Nation has decided to start its campaign on
21st May evening by holding a public meeting in favour of reservation in
<b>JNU.</b> From 22nd morning we will start our Dharna in front of Jantar Mantar in New Delhi. Some of us will go on hunger strike. We will start with relay
hunger strike with more students joining in. The aim of our hunger strike
and dharna is to mobilise more students, youths as well as other
professionals to come out in support of Reservation policy and to oppose the
castist biases of Media, Academia and black mail of castist medical students
and doctors  and also to force government to fulfill its constitutional
obligation effectively.

We are in contact with pro-reservation students from different parts of the
country. Many of them have assured their participation in our protest in
Delhi. Within a week we are hoping to have students from each universities
and professional institutions sitting on hunger strike and dharna in Delhi.
Right now our plan is to focus our protest in Delhi only. Given our limited
means it will be appropriate for us to focus our agitation at one place.
With the time period gradually we can coordinate with students from other
part of the country and bring all of us under one Umbrella and make
concerted efforts.

*We call students from various part of the country to flood Delhi in coming
days*. We are small group of students without any financial means so it is
must that those students who can afford traveling and staying in
Delhi should come. The only thing we can do is to provide them the space in
our rooms for their stay.

*It is most important that <b>our intellectuals and scholars </b>should join us*.

*We appeal to them to come to Delhi and at least stay with us for one day*. This
will boost our confidence and help us to mobilise more support from student
community.

*<b>We also appeal our professionals to come to Delhi </b>*, if possible, or
support us in what ever way they feel they can. <i>{Other professionals? Rioters and other hired guns?}</i>

TOGETHER ALL OF US CAN REALLY BRING DESIRED CHANGES IN INDIAN SOCIETY

*The main rationale behind our agitation are*
**
1. Anti-reservationist has provided us a golden opportunity to bring caste
discourse in mainstream. As we all are aware of the fact that media,
accademia and civil society always maintain conspiratory silence on horrors
of caste system and always try to hide caste based discrimination and
inequality in the name of merit. In fact they have till now successfully
denied us the space to speak, raise our concerns since independence. Now
they only, by default, have provided us an opportunity to organise and
fight caste based discrimination;

2. This is also an historic opportunity for us to pressurise Indian
government to take stock of its measures for empowerment of underprivileged
and demand effective implementation of such government policies;

3. To oppose elitist and castist biases in educational system of the country
and to bust the myth of 'upper' caste merit

4. And the most important point is to claim our share in National resources
that has been monopolised by 15-20% of the Indian Population based on caste
system. It is high time that we demand effective land reforms for landless
people which constitute mostly SC/ST/OBCs.

*OUR DEMANDS*

1. Government must fulfill its constitutional obligations by implementing
reservations for SC/ST/OBCs in all government jobs, private or government
educational institutions,army,judiciary and super speciality courses.

2. Government should also make legal provisions for reservation in private
sector for underprivileged.

3. Government must bring out a White Paper on reservation policy. It is must
so as to know how far it has been implemented. It is fact that not even 50 %
of reservation is being fulfilled by ruling brahminical class of the
county. They have denied us the maximum benefits of reservation policy till
now.

4. Effective land reforms are must for empowerment of SC/ST/OBCs.So we
demand government to carry land reforms in every part of the country.

5. We also demand to amend castist & elitist biases in our education
system by
    a. redesigning the syllabuses to generate awareness about caste based
discrimination and inequality;
    b. providing non-brahminical, anti-caste icons prominent space and to
remove completely brahminical myths and misconceptions, taught to us, in the
name of National History and Culture.
    c. Ban all coaching classes for IAS, IIMs, Engineering, medical and such
other courses
    d. Restructuring competitive exams to remove biases that favours elite
class/caste students
    e. compulsory couses of history, political science, sociology for
students from technical and professional institutes.
      f. More recruitment of faculties in premier institutions from
underprivileged background to correct the caste imbalance and to break the
monopoly of brahmanical people over such institutions and to provide
opportunity for blossoming of real merit, efficiency and excellence.
    g. Higher education must be provided in regional languages or all
primary schools must be in English medium
    h. Government must spend 10% of GDP on Education focusing on
quality primary education for underprivileged

6. We demand punishment for anti-reservation protesters for hurting
sentiments and showing their castist nature by sweeping roads, cleaning
shoes and raising castist slogans.

7. We condemn castist Indian media for instigating the protest against
reservations and providing space to biased. one-sided, castist coverage. We
also demand for punishment of  journalists, cartoonist, editors for making
fun of SC/ST/OBCs and casting aspersion on the merit of SC/ST/OBCs without
any concrete proof or datas and thus showing its true castist nature.

JAI BHEEM

signed/-
STUDENTS' CAMPAIGN FOR CLAIM ON NATION

Contact
xxxx-
xxxxxx-


visit our blog www.claimonnation.blogspot.com for our latest update on our
agitation
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

What's with "Bheem"?


Religion, Caste And Tribe Based Reservation - 3 - Bharatvarsh - 05-20-2006

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->What's with "Bheem"? <!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Commemorating "Bhimrao Ambedkar".


Religion, Caste And Tribe Based Reservation - 3 - Guest - 05-20-2006

<!--QuoteBegin-Bharatvarsh+May 20 2006, 06:32 PM-->QUOTE(Bharatvarsh @ May 20 2006, 06:32 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->What's with "Bheem"? <!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Commemorating "Bhimrao Ambedkar".
[right][snapback]51468[/snapback][/right]
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

yeah, but didn't this Bheem want reservations to end after 10 years? Or did this lot miss that class in school?


Religion, Caste And Tribe Based Reservation - 3 - Guest - 05-21-2006

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin--><b>Reservations: Let down by weak data</b>
R. Vaidyanathan


<i>The Government's move to introduce reservation in the private sector may
have the lofty aim of enhancing social justice. But it is unfortunate that
policy formulations with such far-reaching implications are to be based on
such a meagre and suspect database, points out R. VAIDYANATHAN. </i>


There is a move by the Government to introduce reservations in the private
sector. This is to enhance social justice and social equity by facilitating
increased and statutorily enforced participation of the socially and
educationally disadvantaged sections in the private sector.


This is considered all the more important in the context of the government's
withdrawal from various economic activities. But the data available to
formulate meaningful policies in this important area are "Pulled Out of Thin
Air"— what may be called `POTA' data. It is unfortunate that policy
formulations with such far-reaching implications are to be based on such a
meagre and suspect database. The data on the supply as well as on the demand
side are neither reliable nor useful.


1931 may not reflect 2006


Many of us may not be aware that the Mandal formula of the 1980s, originally
reserving 50 per cent of the seats in government service and educational
institutions for Other Backward Castes, is based on the Census data of 1931.
The Census process was affected by the World War in 1941, and from 1951 on
caste, data are not collected (except that pertaining to Scheduled Castes
and Tribes) as it was felt that these numbers may not further the aim of
creating a casteless society.


The assumption made by the Mandal Commission, based on the 1931 Census and
other parameters that more than 50 per cent of the population belong to an
OBC (Other Backward Caste) may not have been correct. But, on that
assumption, the figure of 27 per cent of reservation for OBCs was arrived
at. The National Sample Survey 2003 Round suggests that the non-Muslim OBC
number may be around 32 per cent of the population and not 50 per cent.
Muslim OBCs are around 4 per cent.


The National Family Health Statistics (NFHS) survey of 1998 suggests that
the population of OBCs (non-Muslims) is around 30 per cent, closer to the
NSS figures. Hence, the earlier assumption on the OBC population being
around 50 per cent may be a substantial over-estimation.


In other words, we do not have a reliable Census headcount for the OBCs,
except that made by State-level Backward Class Commissions, which are not
really Census-like in nature. It may be useful to have a detailed caste-wise
census to look at the actual numbers. Maybe this can be attempted at least
in the coming Census.


Organised and unorganised


The discussion on reservations in the private sector presumably pertains to
the organised or, more specifically, the corporate sector.


Individual companies need not, and do not, provide data in their Annual
Reports regarding the number of employees, leave alone caste-wise
categorisation. But some aggregate data are available for the private
organised sector.


In manufacturing activities, an organised sector unit means a facility
employing ten or more with power, or 20 or more without power and, in
services, it is mainly the company form of organisations.


The Table indicates the level of employment in the private organised sector.


As of end-March 2003, there were 84 lakh people employed in the private
organised sector. This is from a total work-force of around 40 crore. Hence,
the policy of reservation will create a maximum of 20 lakh jobs if it is
assumed that no SC/ST is employed in the private organised sector. This
number is too small *vis-à-vis* the total demand.


In the unorganised sector, legislated reservation will not help as not even
the Minimum Wages Act can be enforced. Also, a substantial number of units
are partnership/proprietorship firms, and legislation of this nature will
increase rent-seeking. We should also recognise that a significant
proportion of SC/ST people are self-employed.


An economic Census of the Central Statistical Organisation in 1998 reveals
that of 31 million enterprises nearly 12 per cent were owned by SC/STs and
33 per cent by OBCs. Hence, the assumption that weaker sections are only
employees or employment seekers may not be correct.


Creamy layer exclusion


The debate also does not take into account that backwardness is not a static
phenomena but a dynamic one. As sociologist M. N. Srinivas said: "An
important feature of social mobility in modern India is the manner in which
the successful members of the backward castes work consistently for
improving the economic and social condition of their caste fellows. This is
due to the sense of identification with one's own caste, and also a
realisation that caste mobility is essential for individual or familial
mobility" (*Collected Essays*; pp196-197 OUP 2005).


For instance, data pertaining to medical admission in Tamil Nadu, which has
had reservations for decades, reveal that a substantial number of "open
seats" are obtained by students nominally belonging to "backward
communities".


For instance, according to a report in *The Hindu*, in 2004, students
belonging to the Backward Class (BC) or Most Backward Classes (MBC) took 952
of the 1,224 seats in 12 government medical colleges in the State (77.9 per
cent).


The first 14 ranks in the medical admissions went to BC/MBC students. Even
in the open competition category, five Scheduled Caste candidates got into
THE MBBS course this year.


In Tamil Nadu, BCs get 30 per cent reservation in educational institutions,
MBCs 20; SCs 18; and STs one per cent. The 1,224 medical seats then get
divided into 354 for BCs; 247 for MBCs; 226 for SCs; and 13 for STs. The
rest of the 384 seats are for open competition, where everyone competes,
regardless of community.


The final tally (the original list with 69 per cent reservation) released by
the Directorate of Medical Education, however, shows that only 28 students
from the `non-reserved' or Forward Caste (FC) got into government medical
colleges, representing about 2.3 per cent.


<b>In fact, OF the top 400 rank-holders, only 31 are from a FC. In the top 100
rank-holders, only six are from an FC, 79 from a BC and 13 from an MBC (*The
Hindu* dated 23-08-2004). </b>


Revise the groupings


Unless continuous data collection and revision of the groupings are done,
the reservation formulations may not achieve their desired objectives.
Hence, keeping the caste situation static is not appropriate and there is a
need to have a time-series data on the nature of mobility that is taking
place across castes, both in employment and in business, particularly from
the non-corporate to corporate business.


Unfortunately, political parties are not interested in excluding any
category, as was seen in the prolonged agitation by advanced Backward Castes
after their exclusion for reservation by the Second Backward Class
Commission in Karnataka based on its exhaustive survey. Many State
governments have denied the existence of any creamy layer in their State.
That is why the original SC/ST reservation in the 1950s was considered a
moral issue and the present OBC quota a political matter.


The policy that "if there is a problem, then legislate" may not be
appropriate, particularly when the database is weak and expectations are
strong, particularly pertaining to votes. That is why the Supreme Court, as
reported widely, while hearing a batch of petitions challenging the validity
of the 77th, 82nd, 83rd and 85th amendments to the Constitution expanding
the scope of job reservations, recently, asked the pertinent question:
"Where is the data regarding the entry of OBCs in the open quota?"


It is easier to stoke passions based on "POTA" data but much more difficult
to douse them with facts since to be a statesman is far more complicated and
time consuming than to be a politician.


<i>(The author is Professor of Finance, Indian Institute of Management,
Bangalore, and can be contacted at vai...@iimb.ernet.in. The views are
personal and do not reflect that of his organisation.) </i>


http://www.thehindubusinessline.com/2006/0...0060518002510... <!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->


Religion, Caste And Tribe Based Reservation - 3 - Guest - 05-22-2006

<b>IIT-Delhi students seek permission to commit suicide</b><!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->A group of students from IIT-Delhi on Sunday submitted a memorandum to the President seeking permission to commit suicide if reservation for OBCs in elite educational institutions is implemented.

The students handed over the memorandum to the President's secretariat saying that they had no other option left if the legislation giving 27 per cent quota to OBCs in elite educational institutions comes through, said Safal, a Youth for Equality representative.
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->


Religion, Caste And Tribe Based Reservation - 3 - Guest - 05-22-2006

They call us Deshdrohi

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Ominous posters

A week ago, posters endorsed by the Samatawadi Chhatra Bharati, a pro-quota organisation of OBCs, were pasted on college notice boards.

“The posters used provocative language, calling on the OBCs to teach the rest of us a good lesson,” says another student Dr Vinit Agarwal, holding up a poster to demonstrate his point. The heading of the poster reads, ‘OBC jag jayega! Tab deshdrohi bhaag jayega! (When OBCs awaken, traitors will flee)’.
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<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Caste banks in college

However, the simmering revolt was not born overnight. “Our professors systematically cultivate ill-feeling in our minds,” alleges Dr Manke.

“Just like politicians create vote banks by favouring one group of people over others, so many professors in our college show blatant favouritism towards students of their own caste.
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Religion, Caste And Tribe Based Reservation - 3 - Guest - 05-22-2006

<b>Quota issue: Two knowledge panel members step down</b><!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Pratap Bhanu Mehta and Andre Beteille are the two members who have stepped down.

Mehta, member-convenor of the commission and president of the Centre for Policy Research, had earlier voiced his opinion against the central government's decision to implement quotas.

<b>He said that the government's measures were not based on an assessment of effectiveness and that the proposal was incompatible with the freedom and diversity of institutions.

In his reckoning, such a move would thoroughly politicise the education process, injecting an "insidious poison" that will harm the nation's long-term interests. The measures, he said, would not achieve social justice</b>.
<b>Renowned sociologist Beteille said in his resignation letter that the quota proposal was a cynical misrepresentation of the recent provisions of the constitution.
Pointing out that the caste quotas are not required by the constitution</b>, he said that any such policy would be unwise
..................


Only two members, <b>PM Bhargava and Jayati Ghosh</b>, supported extension of reservation to OBCs, subject to certain conditions, even as six members called for maintaining the status quo<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->


Religion, Caste And Tribe Based Reservation - 3 - Guest - 05-22-2006

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin--><b>No quota, says India </b>
Pioneer News Service | New Delhi
UP Govt invokes ESMA, fails to bring medicos back ---- The striking medicos of Delhi have become a symbol of the anti-quota protest, and the spark that they lit up is spreading like forest fire across the country. Every day more and more youth from different parts of the nation are joining the peaceful mass movement that has found wide support from the intelligentsia, academicians, and industry barons. 

As the deadlock over the anti-quota agitation continued on Sunday in Delhi with students <b>and junior doctors rejecting Prime Minister Manmohan Singh's appeal to end their agitation and sticking to their demand for total rollback of the proposed OBC quota move, the anti-agitation stir picked up in other States.</b>

While the medicos of Delhi refused to be cowed down under the threats of suspension of termination of services, elsewhere in the country the protestors were equally defiant.

<b>In Lucknow, the striking doctors refused to join duty despite the State Government invoking Essential Services Maintenance Act (ESMA) against them</b>.

The services of Sanjay Gandhi Post Graduate Institute of Medical Sciences (SGPGIMS) doctors, who did not return to their duties within 24 hours, would be terminated and legal action would be taken against them, Chief Secretary Navin Chandra Bajpai said at a meeting in Lucknow.

<b>Doctors, however, remained adamant and said they would not return to the OPDs. "We are against any move to impose OBC quota and condemn brutal lathicharge on our colleagues in Mumbai. We will not work in OPDs to mark our protest,"</b> said Himanshu Goel, an office-bearer of the resident doctors association of SGPGIMS.

In Kolkata, the anti-quota relay hunger strike by medicos gathered momentum on the third day on Sunday when Indian Institute of Technology (IIT), Kharagpur, students and guardians of those appearing in the Joint Entrance Examination joined the stir in West Bengal.

Expressing solidarity with the countrywide agitation against reservation, junior doctors and housestaff of different medical colleges continued to boycott classes and sat on dharna at the Calcutta National Medical College. However, emergency services and outpatient departments were not affected.

Under the banner of 'Youth for Equality', the agitators were joined by students who appeared in the JEE conducted on Sunday and their guardians in a silent protest rally from CNMC to the Park Street area of the metropolis.

In Mumbai, medical associations protesting against OBC quota in elite educational institutes rejected the proposal of a Group of Ministers to increase seats along with introduction of reservations.

"We resolved that we would oppose reservations at any cost," said Ashish Tiwari of Indian Medical Association (IMA) after IMA's Mumbai branch held a joint meeting of various medical organisations.

Last week's police lathi-charge on protesting medical students near the Governor's residence was also condemned at the meeting held at Bombay Hospital here and attended by over thousand people. Later, participants at the meeting took out a protest march upto Azad Maidan.

In Bangalore, medicos protesting against proposed reservation for OBCs in elite institutions on Sunday held a candlelight procession in the city. They also formed a human-chain later.

<b>In Jaipur, BJP general secretary Arun Jaitley alleged that the UPA Government's proposal to provide reservation for OBCs is "politically motivated" and is "aimed at dividing the society". "Government's effort is to divide the society rather than helping the OBCs," Jaitley told reporters here. Replying to a query on the ongoing anti-quota protests by medicos, he said: "The Government's proposal (on reservation for OBCs) is not on the drawing board, it is in the media." "Let the Government come out with a concrete proposal for reservation for OBCs in educational institutions, the BJP will discuss it,"</b> he said.
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Religion, Caste And Tribe Based Reservation - 3 - Guest - 05-22-2006

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Two Knowledge Commission members resign over quota
Monday May 22 2006 17:48 IST

IANS

NEW DELHI: Two members of the National Knowledge Commission on Monday resigned over the ongoing reservation controversy, stating that quotas in elite institutions violate the cardinal principles of a knowledge-based society.

Pratap Bhanu Mehta, member-convenor of the commission and president of the Centre for Policy Research, had earlier voiced his reservation against the central government's decision to implement a quota policy for other backward classes (OBCs) in institutions of higher learning.

Mehta said the government's measures were not based on an assessment of effectiveness and the proposal is incompatible with the freedom and diversity of institutions.

In his reckoning, such a move would thoroughly politicise the education process, injecting an "insidious poison" that will harm the nation's long-term interests. The measures, he said, will not achieve social justice.

Renowned sociologist Andre Beteille said in his resignation letter that the quota proposal was a cynical misrepresentation of the recent provisions of the constitution.

Pointing out that the caste quotas are not required by the constitution, he said any such policy would be unwise.

A majority of members of the commission last week asserted that the government should not extend reservation to OBCs as proposed by the human resources development ministry, and called for maintaining the status quo on the issue till more effective avenues of affirmative action were explored.

Only two members - P M Bhargava and Jayati Ghosh - supported extension of reservation to OBCs, subject to certain conditions, even as six members called for maintaining the status quo.

Prime Minister Manmohan Singh had constituted the National Knowledge Commission in 2005 with eminent communication expert Sam Pitroda as its chairperson to "sharpen India's knowledge edge" and promote excellence in the education system.

The commission, expected to complete its work by October 2008, was to advise the prime minister on matters of institutions of knowledge production, knowledge use and knowledge dissemination.

Its basic charter was to offer advice on how India can promote excellence to meet the knowledge challenges of the 21st century, promote knowledge creation in science and technology laboratories, improve the management of institutions generating intellectual property, improve protection of IPRs and promote knowledge applications in agriculture and industry.

Also part of its mandate, the commission was to suggest how the government's knowledge capabilities can be made more effective, making the government more transparent and accountable as a service provider to the citizen.

http://tinyurl.com/rgfby



June 2, 2005



The Prime Minister has constituted the National Knowledge Commission. Shri Sam Pitroda will be Chairperson and Dr P.M. Bhargava will be Vice-Chairperson. The Members of the Commission will be Shri Nandan Nilekani, Dr. Deepak Nayyar, Shri Ashok Ganguly, Dr. Andre Beteille, Dr. Jayati Ghosh and Dr. Pratap Bhanu Mehta.

The Commission will advise the Prime Minister on matters relating to institutions of knowledge production, knowledge use and knowledge dissemination. The mandate of the Commission is to sharpen India's "knowledge edge".

The Commission will advise the Prime Minister on how India can promote excellence in the education system to meet the knowledge challenges of the 21st Century; promote knowledge creation in S&T laboratories; improve the management of institutions generating Intellectual Property; improve protection of IPRs and promote knowledge applications in agriculture and industry. It will suggest ways in which the Government's knowledge capabilities can be made more effective, making the Government more transparent and accountable as a service provider to the citizen. It will also explore ways in which knowledge can be made more widely accessible in the country for maximum public benefit.

The National Knowledge Commission will be assisted by a Technical Support Group to be staffed by young recruits, hired on contract from premier educational institutions in the country. The Planning Commission will provide logistic support to the National Knowledge Commission. The National Knowledge Commission is expected to interact with different Ministries that handle knowledge areas and encourage Ministries to generate their own plans for upgrading institutional capacity.

The Commission will be guided in its work by a National Steering Group chaired by the Prime Minister and including the Ministers of Human Resource Development, Agriculture, Commerce and Industry, Communication and Information Technology, Dy. Chairman, Planning Commission and Minister of State, Science and Technology. The Commission will identify its action programme by 2nd October, 2005 and complete its work by 2nd October, 2008.



http://pib.nic.in/release/release.asp?reli...edge+commission


Comment:
<!--QuoteBegin--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->
http://www.knowledgecommission.org/



When I browse through this website parading focus areas: Access to Knowledge; Knowledge concepts; Knowledge creation; Knowledge application; Knowledge services; I get the impression of egg-heads trying to mould the samajam according to their own whims and fancies attempting to create a knowledge society.

It is not dissimilar to my early forays into systems flow-charting identifying inputs and outputs little realizing the importance of the impact of the outputs.

It is a cliché to say that netas are useless, that organizations do not focus on intellect and make a stereotyped statement that political entities in particular indulge only activism with disdain for things 'intellectual'.

I have a problem with this term, 'intellectual'.

Who is an intellectual? Is he the person who talks about knowledge as the focus for achieving global destiny?

What is knowledge? Is there a distinction to be drawn between knowledge and wisdom?

Weren't my 'illiterate' great=grandmother and great-grandfather who talked about dharma wise? Were they disdainful of knowledge? Or, try to wear 'knowledge' on their sleeves as some some neo-rich IT czars seem to do? Aha, these czars have a solution for everything, including achieving a developed Bharatam by expanding the IT.

I have followed everyone of the superb presentations made by HE the President Bharat Ratna Dr. APJ Abdul Kalam. Every knowledge-peddler would do well to read these presentations and absorb the wisdom contained in them. They are available at http://presidentofindia.nic.in/scripts/speecheslectures.jsp  All that the National Knowledge Commission has to do is to categorise this nidhi of thought and come up with specific policy guidelines to the Substitute PM and request the latter to come up with a time-line for implementation.

What indeed is intellect?

Our pitr-s, rishis have wrestled with this question. Many savants came up with a consensus statement which is generally mentioned as a justification for any of their writings. The key phrase which is used for justifying the writing is: loka hitam. I am doing this for lika hitam. I hope this contributes to loka hitam. If it does not contribute to loka hitam, it is vyartham.

The key determinant of intellect is its impact. Does it contribute to loka hitam? In fact, the same touchstone is applied even to dharma. What is dharma? That which leads to abhyudaya and nihs'reyas. Abhyudaya is general welfare; nihs'reyas is achieving the union of an atman with the paramatman.

Does National Knowledge Commission and its deliberations contribute to loka hitam? At least the resigning members of the Commission do not seem to think so; else, they would not have quit the Commission announced only last June 2005 with fanfare by the substitute PM, Hon'ble Manmohan Singh.

I have posed a few questions and answered little. Maybe, the terminology is the problem, terminology such as knowledge which is alien to the bharatiya cultural idiom. Maybe, we have to fathom the meaning of the term jnana in Hindu thought. To my knowledge, Hindu thought is the only forum which has attempted to unravel the manas, buddhi, chitta as a unique framework to understand sat and experience ananda. Who knows?

We seem to assume too much competence in ourselves little realizing that we have miles to go to achieve yoga. Jaati des'a kaala samaya navicchinnah saarvabhaumah tad mahaavratam. I really do not know.

Maybe, this is the same tension which is going through the thoughts of the agitated professional students in institutions of 'higher' learning. Maybe, they have started questioning if too much power has been given to the politicians. If so, it is time to rethink the form of government we chose in 1951 by adopting the Consitution of India, that is Bharat. Maybe, the Constitution is the problem and hence, should be the Knowledge focus area. After all, a Constitution should be a means to achieve abhyudaya.

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Religion, Caste And Tribe Based Reservation - 3 - Guest - 05-22-2006

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin--><b>Where do Arjun, Sonia’s grandkids study?</b>
Tavleen Singh
Posted online: Sunday, May 21, 2006 at 0000 hrs
http://www.indianexpress.com/iep/sunday/story/4824.html

First, let us drop the pretense that Mr Arjun 27 per cent was acting on  his own when he announced his new quotas. In the Congress party and the  Manmohan Singh Government, nothing, absolutely nothing, happens without Sonia  Gandhi’s authorisation. Everyone connected to political Delhi knows  this. Second, let us drop the pretense that the new quotas have anything to  do with education. They do not. They have everything to do with next  year’s elections in Uttar Pradesh which, unlike anything you may have heard  about Rae Bareli, are Rahul baba’s real political test. Fawning, sycophantic  political commentators have gushed over his having shown himself ready  for a ‘‘bigger role’’ by running Mummy’s political campaign during her  needless re-election. But this is not true. If he wants to be our next prime  minister, he has to show that he can win back at least his home state  for the Congress party, and to do this he is in direct competition with  ‘OBC Maharaja’ Shri Mulayam Singh Yadav. So, some cynical political pundits in the backrooms of the Congress  party came up with the idea of Arjun Singh’s announcement of a 27 per cent  quota for Other Backward Class students. Set the country on fire if this is  what it takes to win elections. This has been the Congress way for a long  time, only India has changed and this kind of tactic no longer works. But  Indian education, already a mess, will end up damaged beyond repair unless  public opinion succeeds in defeating political cynicism.

The Prime Minister has set up a committee of ministers to try and deflect the rage of students, but this is not enough. We need to use the mess created by his Minister of Human Resources Development to demand some real changes. At the top of the list is the need for the government to free private schools and colleges. The licences and quotas that prevent a million schools and colleges from  blooming across the country must be removed now. Let them be allowed to  decide their fee structures and their academic needs without petty  officials poking their noses into their affairs at every step. If bad ones come  up, they will die their own natural death. We do not need corrupt officials  to interfere on grounds of quotas and permits. What India needs is the  ability to educate the millions of young children who are deprived of a decent  education only because there are not enough good schools.

Schools in urban India resort to the gratuitous cruelty of testing the  intellectual skills of three-year-olds before admitting them. If there  were enough schools this would not happen. In higher education scarcities  are even more severe and again it is because the government keeps a tight  control on how many colleges can come up, what their fee structures  should be and what they should teach. The Government needs to concentrate on improving the abysmal quality of  the schools and colleges that it runs and unless we abolish the HRD  Ministry and bring back a full-scale Education Ministry, this is not going to  happen.  State schools and colleges provide education of such abysmal quality that almost no politician or bureaucrat sends his own children to these institutions. Instead, as was revealed in the Rajya Sabha last week, nearly Rs 30 crore of taxpayers’ money has been spent on the Sanskriti school in Delhi which was built to accommodate the children of bureaucrats and politicians. It first drew attention when Atal Behari Vajpayee sent his granddaughter there. Why should she not have been sent to a neighbourhood municipal school? Where do the grandchildren of Arjun Singh and Sonia Gandhi study? Unless the state stops its interference in  private schools we must demand that their children and grandchildren be forced  to attend only state schools.

If the state agrees to stay out of private education let it reserve as  many seats as it wants to in its own schools and colleges. Let it discover,  as I did in a Gujarati village last week, that in rural India people are not  even sure what an OBC is. <b>In the village I visited I asked which castes  would qualify for the new quota and they said Adivasis and Dalits. When I  told them they already had their own quota they looked puzzled and said,  ‘‘We don’t have any other backward castes in this village.’’ When the 27 per cent quota starts being implemented, though, we might  find that everyone is suddenly an OBC. </b>At a time when caste divisions even  in the darkest depths of rural India are beginning to weaken whoever thought  this one up has some really bad karma coming his way.write to tavleen.singh@expressindia.com
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Religion, Caste And Tribe Based Reservation - 3 - Guest - 05-22-2006

check out the script of "arjun singh vs karan thapar" interview (in the program "the devil's advocate"), presently available on google.


Religion, Caste And Tribe Based Reservation - 3 - Guest - 05-23-2006

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->in.news.yahoo.com/060521/43/64f1p.html
Sunday May 21, 06:11 PM
<b>Ravi Shankar opposes caste-based reservation </b>
By Indo Asian News Service
Bangalore, May 21 (IANS) Art of Living Foundation head Sri Sri Ravi Shankar Sunday said caste-based reservation would not end disparities in society.

Expressing concern over the anti-reservation agitation across the country, Ravi Shankar said there should not be discrimination against anyone for being born in a particular caste.

<b>'While being born in a particular caste should not be a curse, reverse discrimination is not the way for justice,'</b> Ravi Shankar said in a statement from Durban in South Africa.

<b>Advocating economic support for the downtrodden, the spiritual leader said empowerment of all castes and communities was essential as there were poor people in every community.</b>

'We need measures to unite the country and remove inequality at all levels. Reservation on the basis of caste will not only divide the country, but also hurt the self-esteem of our people,' he said, calling upon politicians not to divide and discriminate people in the name of caste or religion.

<b>Poor and middle class students from across the country have been calling the Art of Living centres seeking Ravi Shankar's intervention in the controversial quota move by the central government in higher educational institutes,</b> the statement said.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->


Religion, Caste And Tribe Based Reservation - 3 - Guest - 05-23-2006

<!--QuoteBegin-ben_ami+May 22 2006, 02:21 PM-->QUOTE(ben_ami @ May 22 2006, 02:21 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->check out the script of "arjun singh vs karan thapar" interview (in the program "the devil's advocate"), presently available on google.
[right][snapback]51580[/snapback][/right]
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

here's the interview
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Karan Thapar: Let me quote to you Jawaharlal Nehru, a man whom you personally admire enormously. On the 27th of June 1961 wrote to the Chief Ministers of the day as follows: I dislike any kind of reservations. If we go in for any kind of reservations on communal and caste basis, we will swamp the bright and able people and remain second rate or third rate. The moment we encourage the second rate, we are lost. And then he adds pointedly: This way lies not only folly, but also disaster. What do you say to Jawaharlal Nehru today?<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->