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Religion, Caste And Tribe Based Reservation - 4 - Printable Version
Religion, Caste And Tribe Based Reservation - 4 - Printable Version

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Religion, Caste And Tribe Based Reservation - 4 - Guest - 11-03-2006

<b>Sachar panel mulls Muslim quota</b>

Religion, Caste And Tribe Based Reservation - 4 - acharya - 11-05-2006

Religion, Caste And Tribe Based Reservation - 4 - Guest - 11-07-2006

<b>In quiet ceremony, Devyani Rana is engaged to Arjun Singh’s grandson</b><!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Nepal royal Pashupati Shumsher Rana’s daughter Devyani Rana was formally engaged to Ashwarya Singh, grandson of Union HRD Minister Arjun Singh, here on Sunday. The wedding is set for February 22.
Sunday also happened to be Singh’s birthday. <b>Astrologers had said the day was auspicious for an engagement, so it was arranged immediately</b>. Singh’s sons could not attend
Besides the Singh and the Rana families, the engagement was attended by Devyani’s maternal aunts Yashodhara Raje and Rajasthan Chief Minister Vasundhara Raje, and first cousin Jyotiraditya Scindia.

The tie-up revives the tradition of inter-marriage between the Rajputs and Nepal royal families.

Why he is following caste system? WHat a shame? He should follow Muslim or Christian rituals. Why he is taking astrologers advise? he should have called mullah to fix nikah.

Religion, Caste And Tribe Based Reservation - 4 - Guest - 11-07-2006 C

<b>Imprisonment to Pastor and Son for submitting fake caste certificate</b>
11/6/2006, HK

Thiruvananthapuram: <b>Chief Judicial court sentenced a Christian Pastor and his son for submitting a fake scheduled caste certificate to get admission in MBBS. </b>

Ajaykumar (Crypto Christian) got admission in 1973 MBBS batch in Thiruvananthapuram by submitting a certificate showing Religion as Hinduism and caste as ‘Velan’ and got admission under Scheduled caste reservation. He and his father pastor P.K.George obtained this certificate from Arya Samajam.

Ajay Kumar got 4 years and his father Pastor George got 2 years rigorous imprisonment. George is the Pastor in Cherthala St. Mary's Lurdh Church.

Ajaykumar’s brother Anilkumar also got admission in MBBS like this. Now both brothers are practicing as Doctors, Ajay in Kozhikode and Anil in Alapuzha.

<b>The whole family were practising Christianity and utilized these caste certificate inorder to get admission for MBBS. </b>

The reasons for putting Hindu names for Christians are aimed to deceive the public and do frauds like this and not for their eagerness to Indianize themselves as
some Seculars say.

Aryasamajam also should take extra care in issuing certificates like this and make sure those who got converted to Hinduism are practicing the same too

Religion, Caste And Tribe Based Reservation - 4 - Guest - 11-10-2006

Out-of-school children highest among Muslims in India: Survey
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->The report said over 30 percent of rural Muslim children in Bihar were out of school, followed by around 17 percent in Jharkhand, 13 percent in Uttar Pradesh and 11 percent in West Bengal.

Of the 13.5 million children, 7.8 million were between six to ten years old (the official age group for primary school in majority of the states), accounting for 6.1 percent of the age group.

About 32 percent of the out-of-school children were reported to have been enrolled but dropped out later, while 68 percent had never enrolled, the report said.

The figure is 7.8 percent in rural areas against 4.3 percent in urban areas, the report said.

In urban areas, the figures for boys and girls are similar while in rural areas, it is 6.8 percent for boys and 9.1 percent for girls.

Among the various sections, <b>Muslims top the list with 10 percent followed by 9.5 percent for Schedule Tribes, 8.2 percent for Scheduled Castes and 6.9 percent for Other Backward Castes. </b>

Statewise, Bihar <span style='color:blue'>(Laloo's 10 year rule achivement - bravo)</span> has 17 percent (3.2 million) of the children out of school followed by 10.9 percent in Jharkhand, 8.9 percent in Assam, 8.7 percent in West Bengal, 8.6 percent in Madhya Pradesh, 8.2 percent in Uttar Pradesh and 6.9 percent in Rajasthan.

Why's Govt not fixing the problem here instead of reservations at med/engg colleges, jobs etc. What good are colleges/job seats if basic education is missing?

Religion, Caste And Tribe Based Reservation - 4 - Guest - 11-10-2006
<b>Affirmative action in India flips caste roles</b>- Erica Lee Nelson

Years of affirmative action have <b>upended India's caste system to the point where some upper-caste Brahmins are reduced to working as porters and pedaling rickshaws</b>, while almost half the places in universities will soon be reserved for lower castes and tribal people.

Ramesh Jha, a Brahmin, came to New Delhi because he could not find work in his village in eastern Bihar state, where farming jobs have disappeared and almost all the government jobs are reserved for lower castes.

He now cleans toilets, performing a job once done by only the lowest of castes -- "untouchable" scavengers who cleaned excreta with their bare hands.

India's version of affirmative action has gradually taken hold over the past 50 years, designed to bring justice to those who were long oppressed by the Hindu caste system.

Now the government, using data from a caste census taken in 1931, is on its way to increasing the number of university admissions reserved for lower castes and tribal people to 49.5 percent from 22.5 percent.

When the reservation system was introduced in 1990, violent protests surged through the country and one student immolated himself in protest. This year, large groups of medical and engineering students went on hunger strikes, faced tear gas and left hospitals unmanned for days to participate in protests.

The demonstrators say the quota system will squelch merit in India's most respected universities and further fracture Indian society. More protests are expected when Parliament reconvenes for the winter session.

Since caste cannot always be determined by looks, corrupt government officials are known to create fake lower-caste certificates for anyone who pays.

Recently, the Indian Express newspaper obtained a backward-caste certificate for Atal Behari Vajpayee -- a Brahmin and former prime minister -- simply by paying a bribe of less than $10.

<b>Meanwhile, the status of Brahmins in many states is abysmal. In Andhra Pradesh, 44 percent of Brahmins in the 5 to 18 age group dropped out of school at the primary level, according to a book by J. Radhakrishna.</b>

<b>And hundreds of thousands of Brahmins who were forced to leave insurgency-hit Kashmir now live as refugees in other parts of India. </b>

Much of the progress made by the lowest castes is attributable to the work of the Sulabh Sanitation Movement in New Delhi, which has worked to improve conditions for those who clean public toilets while training them for other kinds of work.

Its founder, Bindeshwar Pathak, a Brahmin, recalls the day from his childhood that his grandmother forced him to swallow sand and cow manure because he had touched an "untouchable." Inspired by Mahatma Gandhi's social movement, he made it his life's work as an adult to fight against that prejudice.

Mr. Pathak, 64, estimates that 13 million toilets are cleaned by members of the manual scavenging caste -- women like Usha who started cleaning sewage when she was 15 years old, just after her marriage.

"I was sick when I did that work," says Usha, who uses only one name. "My stomach always felt bad. My employers would never hand me food. They would only drop it on the ground."

The Sulabh Sanitation Movement trained her to make noodles and grind spices to sell to hotels in the area. The community now looks up to her, and she makes enough money to send her children to school.

But, she says, no one in her slum has benefited much from reserved jobs in the government: They only get jobs as cleaners. And no one of her generation has enough education to gain admission to a university, even if the increased reservations are implemented.

Rather, she says, it is members of the subcastes that stand slightly above the untouchables who are in a position to take advantage of the government benefits.

In order to correct this imbalance, Mr. Jha says, reserved jobs and places in universities should be allotted on the basis of income rather than caste.

"Anyone coming from poverty level should be helped by the government, no matter what the caste, so they can grow and develop," he says.

Religion, Caste And Tribe Based Reservation - 4 - Guest - 11-10-2006

Reservations were introduced in India as an atonement by the hindu society for the bad treatment of disadvantaged castes. That was the reason the reservations were not extended to muslims or christians, as they supposedly had no need for such an atonement.

Nowadays, surrepticiously a rationale is being embedded in peoples' minds that reservations have something to do with 'disadvantaged minority groupings'. Then all the statistics showing inferior human development indices for muslim societies is used as a justification for extending the reservations to muslims.

We need to make sure that this surrepticious re-rationalizing is not permitted.

If hindu society, including financially poor upper castes had to suffer due to reservations as an 'atonement' for past sins, then the same rationale must be applied for say muslims.

Muslims as a society have a lot to atone for, just as supposedly upper caste hindus had to, considering how non-muslims were treated as second class citizens for centuries under muslim rule.

If reservations involving muslims have to occur, then following the 'atonement' principle, there should be negative-reservation for muslims rather than positive reservations.

Hindus can't always be at the receiving end on the topic of 'atoning for past sins'. Let other communties also carry their cross.

Religion, Caste And Tribe Based Reservation - 4 - Guest - 11-11-2006

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin--><b>JNU students vote for anti-quota front </b>
Praveen Kumar | New Delhi 
In a significant political statement, the anti-reservation group at Jawaharlal Nehru University contesting the<b> JNU Students' Union (JNUSU) elections under the Youth for Equality (YFE) banner grabbed five seats of councillors. All the four central panel candidates registered handsome leads in the first three rounds of the counting of votes till late night. </b>

Rated by their hardcore political rivals like Students Federation of India (SFI) and All India Students Association (AISA) political minnows, <b>YFE sprung a surprise and in fact made substantial dents into the support base of AISA, National Students Union of India (NSUI) and even Akhil Bharatiya Vidyarthi Parishad (ABVP) at least in the crucial councillors' contest.</b>

YFE emerged as an entity in the campus earlier this year following intense protests after Union HRD Minister announced reservation for OBCs in Government-aided educational institutions.

Out of the total seats of<b> 31 councillors, SFI and ABVP managed 10 and nine seats respectively whereas NSUI had to contend with just one. AISA got two seats.</b>
  <!--emo&Big Grin--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
YFE presidential candidate Sonika Tyagi quipped,<b> "We are happy that we have managed five councillors' posts. Our opponents have supported the reservation bill for OBCs for their own political motives. We took up the issue just because it's a political game played by our politicians to divide this country on the basis of caste."</b> A YFE member Sumit Kishore asserted that the victory is a rebuttal to their opponents who had naively claimed that the anti-reservation issue would not work in the campus.

<b>With nine seats, ABVP made the battle of ballot quite tough for its opponent SFI for the councillor post and the itch among SFI cadre was palpable</b>. "<b>We don't even count ABVP as opponent," </b>claimed SFI worker from the School of Arts and Aesthetics Prakash claimed.

Reacting to this, member of<b> ABVP Sushant Singh said that the Communist ideology has maligned the environment of the campus and students are fed up with their fake promises.</b> "We were confident that our hard work would pay dividends. Students know what their requirements are and who can fulfill those. We had raised serious issues concerning the students and that is why we bagged nine seats."

NSUI member Vijay Kumar surprisingly blamed the Left oriented parties responsible for their dismal performance.<b> "We had a very few members in JNU and these parties are cadre based which is why they manage to impose their ideologies upon the faculty, staff and the students",</b> he said.

Till the report was filed the candidates of Youth for Equality were leading the race for all the four posts with a margin of 400 plus votes
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd--> <!--emo&:cool--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/specool.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='specool.gif' /><!--endemo-->
In communist heartland, they lost election. congress youth wing NSUI is also gone. I hope UP, MP and these result will make Moron SIngh, Queen and third rated commies to leave Indians alone.

Religion, Caste And Tribe Based Reservation - 4 - Guest - 11-11-2006


I think the time of carrying the cross etc is over. Ramadoss said the debate about quotasystem is over - quota is the in-thing. Its best if all communities look after their own - whats in the way is the concept of 'open' quotas.

Religion, Caste And Tribe Based Reservation - 4 - Bharatvarsh - 11-11-2006

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->I think the time of carrying the cross etc is over. Ramadoss said the debate about quotasystem is over - quota is the in-thing. Its best if all communities look after their own - whats in the way is the concept of 'open' quotas. <!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
And that ain't gonna happen, anyway many of the FC's are finished, they are immersed in luxury living and are busy copying the latest fad from the West.

Check out some of the prominent commie names and you will find that most of them are FC, it has got to the point where the Hindus I talk to including myself approach an article expecting the worst if we see the author's name as some Chatterjee or Banerjee or Mukherjee. That maybe prejudicial but we all have our prejudices and things have reached a point where you will be cautious from the beginning if you see those names.

Let's take TN, why would Brahmins get reservations if they demand them?

Do they matter politically in terms of votes and the answer is a clear no.

Do they have any demographic strength in TN and the answer is again a no, infact they have a low birth rate.

Only the communities that are assertive about their rights and have some useful card to play for the politicians will get reservations, otherwise they will all end up like the KP's.

Religion, Caste And Tribe Based Reservation - 4 - Guest - 11-11-2006


I don't think the matter is settled yet. Supreme Court is looking at the issue of the 9th schedule. My gut feeling is it is going to become much harder for politicians to dump any and every politically convenient issue into the 9th schedule and subvert the fundamental rights. If SC rules that the fundamental rights can't be subverted by abusing 9th schedule of the constitution, then 70%+ reservations in TN will be thrown out as unconstitutional.

SC has already said that more than 50% reservation is unconstitutional, and recently there have been strong indications that SC wishes to see real evidence and justification for the runaway reservationism sweeping through politicians empty mindscapes.

A few well delivered judgements and <b>"Dumbomani Dumbo-D'asses"</b> can be shown their place. At least that is the hope.

If, at some point I come to the cynical conclusion that matter has been settled for good as you mentioned, I would lose all my respect for the Indian constitution. If the constituion can't protect the fundamental rights of its citizens, then no point holding it in high esteem or even protecting it.

Religion, Caste And Tribe Based Reservation - 4 - Guest - 11-11-2006


Agreed. But the solution is to be as ruthless and vicious to the communists as they have been to the hindus. ABV wanted to be the darling of all his enemies. Congress and Communists had nothing at all to fear under his benevolent rule. They happily enjoyed and laughed in private at the foolish magnanimity. While they leave no stone unturned to undermine hindu causes whenever it has been in their power.

If BJP comes to power next, I wish to see them go after the communists with a vengeance. There is a lot that can be done legally and constitutionally to shake their hold on India. Unfortunately I don't see Advani understanding that. He bought the <b>'be lovely and cuddly to your enemies'</b> line from ABV lock stock and barrel. He is spent. Younger leaders like Modi, Rajnath Singh, Kalyan Singh would do much better in comparison. I had strong doubts about Pramod Mahajan, but that is a moot point now. Uma bharati is too volatile and outside BJP. Arun Shourie has a sharp and uncluttered mind, and is ideologically a slab of granite, but is not really a politician, and can be made a sorry spectacle like MMS by career politicos if made PM. He would do great as a minister though. Venkaiyah Naidu is spent. Arun Jaitley and Sushma swaraj are softies, although could be very valuable as ministers.

Religion, Caste And Tribe Based Reservation - 4 - Guest - 11-11-2006


Jaatis in so-called FC have carried the cross for too long. There is this fervent wish that BC jaatis will 'evolve' into FC jaatis and hence the 'open' quotas will keep on increasing until everybody becomes FC. But thats just a crazy game. The pressure is on the FC to remain FC as a whole when everybody is carving out their own little fiefdoms and more and more people are discovering persecution.

I think once FCs say -> ok we are gamew with regards to proportional representation, this whole thing will stabilize and the pressures will turn inward within each category.

Such systems existed on village levels before, lets make it nationwide.

Religion, Caste And Tribe Based Reservation - 4 - Guest - 11-11-2006

Also regarding constitutionality, Supreme Court faces a major basic-character-of-the-constitution type battle. Consitutional amendments will come in and a complicated scenario might follow. Its beyond me to understand what happens in that scenario.

Religion, Caste And Tribe Based Reservation - 4 - Guest - 11-11-2006

Can't SC rulings be thrown out like they did in Shah Bano case? It wasn't that long ago.

Religion, Caste And Tribe Based Reservation - 4 - Guest - 11-11-2006


Rajiv Gandhi amended the constitution in Shah Bano case and circumvented the existing issue. But SC has the authority to throw out any constitutional amendment, except those put in the 9th schedule. Currently SC is looking into the 9th schedule issue too. And I am pretty positive that SC will bring even that into judicial review.

Executive can make any laws it wants, but the constitutionality, hence validity, is still to be decided by the SC.

Religion, Caste And Tribe Based Reservation - 4 - Guest - 11-11-2006

Ashok guroo,

You know what the next step will be ? They will demand a quota in SC. Once you are into this game of proportional representation its a vicious cycle. All this may seem too cynical but this is the reality. Demography and democracy are firmly wedded.

Religion, Caste And Tribe Based Reservation - 4 - Guest - 11-11-2006


The thought had occured to me too.

But nice thing is that over the decades the judiciary has made itself very independent of politicians in the matter of appointments. There is still a role for the govt in appointing highest judges, but not so much as to be disruptive.

If casteism spreads to judiciary too, then it would have come from within the judiciary itself, which I think is unlikely as judges do not run for populist elections.

Although anything can be subverted, and it is possible that judiciary can be humbled too. But I think that can happen only during a national calamity, a war or emergency of some sort. But then all bets will be off anyway. If dictatorship comes, why would it care about demographics and democracy and caste equations.

Religion, Caste And Tribe Based Reservation - 4 - Guest - 11-11-2006

<b>SC/ST, not OBC, in Cong focus</b><!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->New Delhi, November 10: Making a mid-course assessment that winning over the Other Backward Castes (OBCs) as a political constituency is not easy, Congress strategists now feel that party’s electoral fortunes will depend on its traditionally trusted social groups — Scheduled Castes, Scheduled Tribes and Muslims.

<b>A senior Congress functionary said positive movements on affirmative action for SCs/STs in private sector and measures targeting Muslims would be the focus of the party as it warms up for the next general elections in 2009.</b> “On both fronts some definite measures will come soon enough,” he said.
<b>“We cannot beat Lalu or Mulayam in the game of OBC politics. We have to remain and project our image of being a liberal party with a pro-poor focus,”</b> he said.

He said positive discrimination was part of the party’s concern for the poor and Congress did not favour clubbing together SCs/STs and OBCs for the purpose. <b>The party will not do anything that excludes creamy layer from the benefits of SC/ST quota. </b>“There is a huge backlog of SC/ST posts and therefore the talk of a creamy layer for them is misplaced. Creamy layer concept may be valid in the case of OBCs where there is no backlog,” the senior leader said.
Now Congress will leave OBC and will go back to play SC/ST and Muslim. I think it is too late for that also. Muslim votes will go to any Mullanas.

Religion, Caste And Tribe Based Reservation - 4 - Guest - 11-11-2006

<b>Community of differences</b>
<i>Reservation for Muslims as an undifferentiated whole is likely to generate conflict not only between Muslims and others but also within Muslims. For affirmative action to be effective, we need a more discriminating strategy</i>