Jan Lokpal movement - Printable Version +- Forums (http://india-forum.com) +-- Forum: Indian Politics, Business & Economy (http://india-forum.com/forumdisplay.php?fid=6) +--- Forum: Indian Politics (http://india-forum.com/forumdisplay.php?fid=17) +--- Thread: Jan Lokpal movement (/showthread.php?tid=92) |
Jan Lokpal movement - Capt Manoj Singh - 08-27-2011 There is a great jubilation all over India at the moment as most political parties have come to consensus on the Jan Lok Pal Bill. This is the corner stone of India's fight against corruption. Kudos to Anna Hazare and his team! Jan Lokpal movement - rhytha - 08-28-2011 Frankly, i dont for 1 sec believe that this will be passed as law and the Kongress giving the enough teeth to jan lokpal as required. But i guess thats another fight for another day. Jan Lokpal movement - Guest - 08-28-2011 Yes, Congratulations! Anna Hazare's fast has (i) highlite corruption (ii) galvanized the people into the streets and (iii) made the political parties both ruling and opposition to agree to enact a law to curb corruption. Anna would end the fast tomorrow and no surprise for me. I have predicted this in this forum. Anna wins in all appearance but if it is a real victory in substance remains to be seen. Jan Lokpal movement - shamu - 08-28-2011 What happens if the bill is defeated in the parliament? Jan Lokpal movement - Guest - 08-28-2011 [quote name='shamu' date='28 August 2011 - 01:33 AM' timestamp='1314474959' post='112619'] What happens if the bill is defeated in the parliament? [/quote] It is not a question of the bill getting defeated because the UPA is supporting it, then who is going to oppose? The BJP?. Do you think they can without being targetted and vilified by the Congress and the kept press? The question is what is actually in the bill and how it gets implemented. For example the PM's letter to Anna says that his three minimum demands are included in the bill but does not talk of the extent of its reach, the process of implementation and the penalty for the transgressors. One of the three demands is the setting up of Lokayuktha in all states. Even before he sent that letter to Anna the PM or his coterie have instructed the appointment of a Lokayuktha in Gujarat through the Governor bypassing the elected BJP govt. of Modi and that too an ex-judge who is a supporter of Anna. Also note that the ex-judge Hegde is a supporter of Anna and what he did in Karnataka as a Lokayuktha. He did not touch any Congress CM that included S.M.Krishna. You can now say that the P.M., the F.M. and P.Chidambaram are his supporters. Pardon me for leaving out Sonia and Raul Vinci! Now you know how the game is going to be played. Jan Lokpal movement - Guest - 08-28-2011 [url="http://janamejayan.wordpress.com/2011/08/27/lokpal-a-neo-con-leech/"][size="4"]Lokpal: A neo-con leech[/size][/url] Jan Lokpal movement - Guest - 08-28-2011 [url="http://janamejayan.wordpress.com/2011/08/27/lokpal-a-neo-con-leech/"][size="4"]Lokpal: A neo-con leech[/size][/url] Jan Lokpal movement - Capt Manoj Singh - 08-28-2011 [quote name='Savithri' date='28 August 2011 - 02:21 AM' timestamp='1314493990' post='112622'] [url="http://janamejayan.wordpress.com/2011/08/27/lokpal-a-neo-con-leech/"][size="4"]Lokpal: A neo-con leech[/size][/url] [/quote] Several conspiracy theories are bound to float around when a movement is successful. The above is perhaps one of them. The author claims Team Anna's bill does not distinguish between petty corruption and corruption running into sveral hundred crores. I should think even the Law will not distinguish the fact as both are criminal offences in the eyes of the law. One other smear campaign the article brings to light is 'Kabir' a party swearing alliance to Anna has accepted Rs 86 Lakhs fund from Ford foundation of the USA. A movement of the scale the country has just witnessed would require funds. We as observers do not know the authenticity of the information nor the intentions of the funding company so why speculate or give in to smearing campaign. What is happening in India is a move in the right direction, one can only hope it will cure the country of the malaise of corruption. Jan Lokpal movement - Guest - 08-28-2011 [url="http://janamejayan.wordpress.com/2011/08/28/its-official-us-based-ford-foundation-funding-annas-movement-afroz-alam-sahi/"][size="5"]Corrupt fighters of corruption in Gandhigiri India![/size][/url] Jan Lokpal movement - Capt Manoj Singh - 08-29-2011 [quote name='Savithri' date='28 August 2011 - 05:46 PM' timestamp='1314553116' post='112634'] [url="http://janamejayan.wordpress.com/2011/08/28/its-official-us-based-ford-foundation-funding-annas-movement-afroz-alam-sahi/"][size="5"]Corrupt fighters of corruption in Gandhigiri India![/size][/url] [/quote] I believe clippings from someone's personal blog that is solely directed to smear a good cause is to be treated with caution. One interesting point does however emerge. Are the NGO's obliged to declare their sources of funds to everyone? I should imagine they would be required to declare their funds to the tax man but not necessarily make an universal declaration. Any comments Guys/Gals? Jan Lokpal movement - Capt M Kumar - 08-29-2011 The arrogance of both the civil society and the Government does require deliberation. The Congress got out of a jam - thus what's out is the old arrogance of the Congress. One of the biggest stumbling blocks to the negotiations was the arrogance of power and street power displayed by the civil society. What should be out and is most unwelcome is gherao of the houses of the Members of Parliament and also that of the Prime Minister. This is definitely unwelcome and not a democratic process as it was done at the behest and instigation of a single person and was done as an act of intimidation; thus what's in should be protest, what's out is carrying it to people's homes as their wives and children should not be troubled, they have done no one any harm. http://dailypioneer.com/364291/Annas-social-revolution-Whats-in-whats-out.html Jan Lokpal movement - Guest - 08-29-2011 [quote name='Capt Manoj Singh' date='29 August 2011 - 02:56 AM' timestamp='1314566297' post='112635'] I believe clippings from someone's personal blog that is solely directed to smear a good cause is to be treated with caution. One interesting point does however emerge. Are the NGO's obliged to declare their sources of funds to everyone? I should imagine they would be required to declare their funds to the tax man but not necessarily make an universal declaration. Any comments Guys/Gals? [/quote] Dear Capt Manoj Singhji, First of all re: my posting that referred to Janamejayan's weblog. Sir, I find that this weblog posted both sides in many of its postings. This blog has been in the forefront in posting all the corruptions indulged by Sonia and her Congress for the last few years and therefore I thought it has the worthy credential. Also I myself have shared your glee in congratulating Anna, not as his fan but giving my reasons. Secondly when you have written under the thread 'corruption watch': "How can one be assured of the legitimacy of the information?", to which I replied "Legitimacy of the info? Ask Ford Foundation to deny it!" Clearly you did not want to ask Ford Foundation or verify in any other way because, in the earlier posting under this thread you wanted to maintain: "We as observers do not know the authenticity of the information nor the intentions of the funding company so why speculate or give in to smearing campaign." So I posted the fact that someone has obtained the information under the RTI and obtained the fact that it had received funding from various sources, including the controversial Michigan (United States)-based Ford Foundation. Sir, did it occur to you to question as to why would Ford Foundation finance someone in India and what is its motive and benefit in such funding? You clearly did not. So was the reason for my posting that referred to Sandhya Jain's article: "Lokpal: A neo-con leech". I was hoping it would enlighten you on what you missed. Now you are advising the readers that it is a smear campaign and they should treat this with caution. This is quite unfortunate. However, you indeed have the right to caution others standing by your point of view however faulty it is. So much so I too would like to inform people to NOT get carried away by appearance but know the actors and their motives. So here is another article that I would like people including you to read: [url="http://janamejayan.wordpress.com/2011/08/29/anna-hazare%e2%80%99s-jan-lokpal-a-puppet-on-a-string/"][size="5"]Anna Hazareââ¬â¢s Jan LokPal: A Puppet on a string?[/size][/url] Jan Lokpal movement - simplyrohit21 - 08-29-2011 Agree with Savithriji. There are indeed strange elements to this entire 'second independence struggle'. If I may be allowed, here is another blog (for those who enjoy reading Hindi/'à ¤âà ¤¡à ¤¼à ¥⬠à ¤¬à ¥â¹Ã ¤²à ¥â¬'). This gentleman does an excellent job of monitoring the same (albeit somewhat polemical). Check this out- http://blog.sureshchiplunkar.com/2011/08/anna-hazare-janlokpal-bill-and-indian.html Warm Regards. Jan Lokpal movement - roosevelt92 - 08-29-2011 that's why Anna is called the second Ghandi of India... Jan Lokpal movement - Capt Manoj Singh - 08-29-2011 This post serves to address the few points made by Savithri ji and others. [quote name='Savithri' date='29 August 2011 - 02:27 AM' timestamp='1314580756' post='112637'] .... Quote:I myself have shared your glee in congratulating Anna, not as his fan but giving my reasons./quote] Quote:A real anti-corruption movement should seek to provide autonomy to the enforcement agencies to go after the corrupt, so that lack of political will does not hamper investigations and convictions. Team Anna has been silent on this and this is worrying. Is it really true? On the contrary, I think that the 'Team Anna' is demanding for a fairly autonomous body to deal with corruption at all levels be it the parliament or the judiciary. Quote:However well-meaning the intentions of Jan Lokpal draft bill may be, undermining Parliamentââ¬â¢s legislative powers is unacceptable. I think the parliamentarians should be glad that the civil unrest has been entirely peaceful given the levels of corruption the country has seen witnessed in recent times. I remember reading elsewhere in this forum and others that it runs to several billions of Dollars. Parliament represents nothing but an epitome of corruption to the vast majority of Indians and nothing but Annarchy could have moved them do some good for the country for a change. Quote:Never before has India seen so many powerful netas, babus and corporate leaders crowded in the damp cells of Tihar Jail for corruption. We all know that the money that is siphoned out of the country by the corrupt politicians is never returned. Does imprisonment make good the loss to the country? Quote:[quote]Annaââ¬â¢s fixation in passing his pet Jan Lokpal bill reminds me of a puppet on a string.[b] Even for a moment we were to go with the analogy he would a smaller puppet than Shri Manmohan Singh ji who tows the rope of Ms Sonia Gandhi and Rahul. Besides this puppet has successfully unified the country and focussed its attention on the annihilation of corruption through peaceful yet unfaltering methods. Quote:[b]à ¤¤à ¤¾à ¤¤à ¥Âà ¤ªà ¤°à ¥Âà ¤¯ à ¤¯à ¤¹ Ã Â¤Â¹Ã Â¥Ë Ã Â¤â¢Ã ¤¿ à ¤Åà ¤¬ à ¤¤à ¤⢠à ¤®à ¤¨à ¥Âà ¤·à ¥Âà ¤¯ à ¤â¢Ã ¥⬠ââ¬Åà ¤¨à ¥â¬Ã ¤¯à ¤¤ââ¬Â à ¤¨à ¤¹à ¥â¬Ã ¤â à ¤¬à ¤¦à ¤²à ¤¤à ¥â¬, à ¤¤à ¤¬ à ¤¤à ¤⢠à ¤Åà ¤¨à ¤²à ¥â¹Ã ¤â¢Ã ¤ªà ¤¾à ¤² à ¤â¢Ã ¤¾ ââ¬Åà ¤¬à ¤¾à ¤ªââ¬Â à ¤Âà ¥⬠à ¤â¢Ã Â¥Âà ¤⺠à ¤¨à ¤¹à ¥â¬Ã ¤â à ¤â¢Ã ¤° à ¤¸à ¤â¢Ã ¤¤à ¤¾à ¥¤ Couldn't agree with it more. Jan Lok Pal movement is an awakening process and the road towards corrupt free India is indeed a treacherous one that requires honest intentions. Doubting the movement or the intentions of the people who lead it will not help the country. Jan Lokpal movement - dhu - 08-29-2011 [url="http://www.firstpost.com/politics/why-annas-middle-class-has-disdain-for-parliament-67213.html"]Why Annaââ¬â¢s middle class has disdain for Parliament[/url] By R Vaidyanathan Quote:The tripod constructed by Jawaharlal Nehru consisted of socialism, secularism and parliamentary supremacy. Jan Lokpal movement - Capt Manoj Singh - 08-29-2011 [quote name='dhu' date='29 August 2011 - 10:04 AM' timestamp='1314608177' post='112641'] [url="http://www.firstpost.com/politics/why-annas-middle-class-has-disdain-for-parliament-67213.html"]Why Annaââ¬â¢s middle class has disdain for Parliament[/url] By R Vaidyanathan [/quote] While the points made by Dr Vaidyanathan are not unsubstantiated, it does go to prove that people are supreme in any Democracy. Whether they be elected representatives as in Narasimha Rao's or Shah Bano's case or they take matters into own hands as they arm twist the parliament - it is peoples democracy and people shall always remain supreme. Jan Lokpal movement - dhu - 08-29-2011 [url="http://blogs.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/right-and-wrong/entry/don-t-mess-with-the-middle-class"]Donââ¬â¢t mess with the middle class [/url] Swapan Dasgupta Quote: Worse, the movement was sought to be derailed by stoking largely imaginary fears among Muslims, OBCs and dalitsââ¬âthe old divide-and-rule formula which has paid such rich dividends. Jan Lokpal movement - dhu - 08-29-2011 Some more background on Ford Foundation (related to US escalation in the Vietnam War): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McGeorge_Bundy Jan Lokpal movement - dhu - 08-29-2011 The original plan appears to have been to provide a secular replacement to the anti-Kangressi agitation of Baba Ramdev; thus, Anna Hazare was elevated as a replacement figure who invoked the more generic "corruption" in place of Kangressi black money invoked by Baba Ramdev (either Swapan Dasgupta or Kanchan Gupta). The plan was to have Anna perform a token fast, this fast was to be successful in the same venue as the failed one of Baba Ramdev (which they suppressed brutally by burning down the stage and trying to start a stampede). However, the public did not play their part of dociles and the colonial edifice of Parliament itself appeared redundant. Kejriwal and Prashant Bhushan are secular activists, at some point they will probably jettison Hazare. |