Thomas In India? History Of Christianism In India

[dhu]

Fraudulent myth of the tomb of St Thomas - I
Shri V Sundaram

Fraudulent myth of the tomb of St Thomas - II

Fraudulent myth of the tomb of St Thomas - III

Fraudulent myth of the tomb of St Thomas - IV

[Husky]

http://vivekajyoti.blogspot.com/2008/07/as...-up-at-san.html
<b>ASI deeply involved in the cover up at San Thom church & at St. Thomas Mount</b>
Linked off http://www.hamsa.org/movie.htm

[Guest]

Deivanayagam type of work with the assumption is continuing.

A Huge Conference in 2005 in Newyork - The Adi Christhavam in India- means Saivam and Vaishnavam are Christian -with John Samuel as Convenor, Deivanayagam, Devakala presenting many Papers. Hillary Clinton came in Person, wishes from all denominations of IndiaN churches.

2ND Conference in 2007.

Now in Chennai as "மிழர் சமய உலக முதல் மாநாடு" Tamilar Samaya Vulaka Maanadu conducted from 14th Aug-17th August at Santhome Church' conference hall.

Few Sound Thinkers has opposed it by putting blogs
http://jeyamohan.in/?p=600
http://dondu.blogspot.com/2008/08/blog-post_12.html in Tamil

Oppression and Frauds continue

[Guest]

<b> An argument I am having with a Christian Proselytizer By janamejayan</b>

[dhu]

Post : 5460

I am an independent researcher and writer and I have interest in the subject matter. I have also published a book “Indiayavil Saint Thomas Kattukkathai” (The Saint Thomas myth in India) in Tamil in 1989. As I study in historical perspective, I find that the over-enthusiastic Indian Christians have indulged in manufacturing Copper plates to prove their antiquity of the tradition and belief, which are not necessary. The recent attempt (1980 to 1990) has been that of former archbishop Arulappa (1912-1996) and Acharya Paul (1920-2005) - (both are no more now: “Dead men can tell no histories or lies”), who engaged in such forgery of Copperplates connecting the “doubting Thomas” with Tiruvalluvar, a Tamil poet.

Ironically, though such frauds have been exposed, again the Indian Christians have announced and carried on their activities of shooting a film on “Thomas myth” in India. Honest and true Christians may be bewildered to note that too what extent they could imagine and take “doubting Thomas” to more “doubts”. As they have money and political power, they invited the anti-Hindu atheist Chief Minister of Tamilnadu, India - Karunanidhi, to inaugurate the movie.

Note, the announcement and efforts of this movie immediately follows another move “Jesus in India”, which is again based on another forgery.

One Fr. Paulraj Lourdusamy with three doctorates has been the script and story writer of the film. He goes on giving interviews to local vernacular papers and magazines about the 50 crores mega-movie project, which we call as a fraud on Indians, as it has no historical basis.

The simple question is how a man born on the earth could have more than one skeleton and tombs at different places on the earth? Thus, such documents taking “doubting Thomas” to all continents are absolutely forged ones. If one has to believe “Acts of Thomas” listed under Old Testament apocrypha, then, the verses clearly say that he was killed by the soldiers of Gonophores and his body was taken to Mesopotamia. So let the Christians be satisfied with such Biblical truth as a word of God and keep quite.

The more they rake up, the more forgeries and frauds would come up and the Christians friends may not be comfortable about it. In fact, most or many of Indian Christians and Indian non-Christian believers may or may not be knowing all these things. But if the Christians tryto push these forgeries, thrust frauds and impose myth on Indians as “history”, then definitely, Indians have to tell the truth.

Let the truth prevail and Christians be happy with their scriptures, Gods, Apostles and prayers.

VEDAPRAKASH
28-07-2008
------------------
Post : 5498

First, I want to correct the mistakes crept into my posting:

1. “Acts of Thomas” is listed under “The Apocryphal New Testament” and not under “Old Testament Apocrypha”.

2. According to the apocryphal work, he was killed by the soldiers of “Misdaeus” and not by “Gundaphorus”.

Coming to the response of mr. Chacko: I was rather surprised by the response of “Chacko” and I need not comment upon his outbursts and attacks. If he really wants to challenge me or want to do so, but not the way in which he has responded. Let him be courteous, as I do not know which tradition or history has taught him to abuse others.

He can just go through a google search to find out about me.

He has not refuted the frauds mentioned.

I challenge him to point out “fabrications” as mentioned by him.

I record here one thing: In the name of “Thomas”, the church, bishops and others have been indulged in manufacturing evidences copperplates and palm-leaf manuscripts etc., and none would appreciate or approve. Manufacturing cannot forgive such forgeries and frauds. When I use such words, I have evidences for that.

According to “Acts of Thomas”, the so-called “martyrdom” of “doubting Thomas” is as follows:

168. And when he had thus prayed he said unto the soldiers; Come hither and accomplish the commandments of him that sent you. And the four came and pierced him with their spears, and he fell down and died.

And all the brethren wept; and they brought beautiful robes and much and fair linen, and buried him in a royal sepulchre wherein the former (first) kings were laid.

170. And he went and opened the sepulchre, but found not the apostle there, for one of the brethren had stolen him away and taken to him unto Mesopotamia.

Motague Rhodes James (Trans.), The Apocryphal New Testament, Oxford at Clarendon, UK, 1924, p.437.

About “apocrypha”, the meaning given by the translator may be referred to: Ibid, p.xiv of PREFACE.
Thus, your “guy”, “fellow”, “troll” etc., is always ready.

VEDAPRAKASH

29-07-2008
---------------------------------------
Post : 5552

1. My introduction to your forum has been received with much contempt, hatred and calling names, of course with threatening note also. Instead of repentance, claim has been made that “Our Guru has taught us”. Anyway, coming to the point, historically, before the advent of the Portuguese, there was no historical record for the “St. Thomas myth in India”.

2. The European Christian travellers, Christian / Jesuit writings mentioning his name / variance etc., are found in the documents thereafter.

3. The South America / Brazil has such tradition with similar legends superimposed, interwoven and concocted by the Church writers with the local Gods - Tunapa, Virococha, Quetzalcoatl (Huatulco is in Mexico, where Thomas reached to labour and die on a hillock. While he was praying on the top of the hillock, he was martyred and thus, his footprint was imprinted on the top and it is known as “Piedra de Moros”, near the village with the same name).

4. For Arulappa-Acharya Paul wrangles (as I mentioned in the first posting itself) refer to http://www.hamsa.org and http://www.indiainteracts.com where my articles are available, which I do not want to repeat here. Kindly read “What wrong have I done?” the interview of Acharya Paul by K. P. Sunil appeared in The Illustrated weekly of India, April 26 – May 2, 1987 . As Arulappa wanted to link Thomas with Tiruvalluvar, he engaged one Ganesh Iyer, alias Dr. M. Paul alias M. Acharya Paul alias Murugesan Paul alias Ganesan alias Acharya Ganesh alias Dr. Hariharanath to manufacture Copperplates and palm-leaf manuscripts.

5. As for as the other copperplates are concerned their genuine status comes into question when various kinds of anomalies and anachronisms are found in the study: palaeographic and orthographic, linguistic and stylistic, historical or calendrical.

6. Historically, researchers do not worry about the canonical and non-canonical / apocryphal writings, but believing Christians in the name of history cannot change their stands theologically and liturgically.

7. As for as Mylapore is concerned, the Portuguese / Jesuit / Christian activities have been on the record to show that they have indulged in the manipulation and manufacture of evidences.

8. As the Christians confronted Hindu religion with their blasphemous speeches and writings – Victor J. F. Kulanday (Swami Kulandaiswami), Sadhu Chellappa, M, Deivanayagam, R. Arulappa, Baskaradas, Moses Michael Faraday, G. John Samuel, and host of others, I got interest in Christianity to know the truth.

9. Being a believer of one religion cannot make him / her to disbelieve and defame other believer, but the Christians have been doing that where the “St. Thomas myth” is taken to beat the Hindus. History and faith are different. In 1989, it was inserted in the textbooks of Tamilnadu and that is why I had to bring out the book mentioned.

10. I conclude with the last sentences of my book (translated into English): “For the respective believers, their Gods, apostles and scriptures have been superior, but a genuine God-believer or devotee would not blaspheme others. But it is saddening to note thart some responsible Christians have indulged in such activities. Thus, when they are engaged in such actitvites, as they have no historical basis, we have necessity to question them.” (p.44, Indiyavil Saint Thomas Kattukkathai).

VEDAPRAKASH
31-07-2008.
------------------------------
Post : 5632

1. Religious superiority: The tone and tenor of the respondents have been reflected with religious superiority, which proves the complexity of the psyche involved. I quote from K. V. Ramakrishna Rao, “If believers of Gods abuse Gods, seekers of Gods destroy Gods, faithful followers of one religion question the faith of others and, against all moral and ethical codes and Universal principles, conduct pseudo-spiritual and psychological-religious warfare against one religion, then these activities are not “inculturation” but “outculturation”, as religion and culture are inseparable for Hindus. Theocentric and theocratic eclectics are dangerous as nuclear, chemical and other warheads.” In Hindu Christian encounters and Indian Express (Madras edition). Of course, though the comments were made in the context of “Inculturation”, it is applicable here also.

2. Calling names continues: Besides, “guy”, “fellow”, “troll”, “Pandi bandits”, the following are added: “rubbish pagans”, “Pandis” -“You are nothing but rubbish pagans / Pandis and Ezhavas and lower Castes of Kerala are ur brothers.”. In fact, James CJ has repeated twice. “bigot”, “BG from NZ are among those low key human -like beings”…… “….like a hack and an amateur” etc. May God give peace of mind for all of you. Sunny Alanoly repents, “Pray for your enemy”! So in the list “enemy” can also be added.

3. Without reading coming for argument: Sunny Alanoly response proves that he has not read the given references properly. For such acts, only the entire proceedings went on in the Madras High Court and the Archbishop Arulappa had settlement with Acharya Paul. If you still persist, I can post all details in your forum. It has very much bearing on “the Thomas myth in India”. John Mathew writes according to his will, as he records: “Suppose Vedaprakash wrote something worth reading. It may contain truth in it, but when he makes an absurd statement: “Kerala has always been Vedic” it makes him look like a hack and an amateur.” I do not know what he writes.

4. The so-called Crosses: You claim all such figures are “crosses”, you are totally wrong. Read F. S. Drake’s, “Nestorian Crosses and Nestorian Christians in China under the Mongols”, Thomas Wilson’s , “Swastika: The Earliest Known Symbol and its Migrations” etc. If one has to by this interpretation, “The Nestorian Church was there in China”! Just by appropriation of others, a particular group of believers cannot claim that such crosses are theirs.

5. The so-called copper plates: Cladius Buchanan recorded as follows: “But there are other ancient documents in Malabar, not less interesting than the Syrian Manuscripts. The old Portuguese historians relate, that soon after the arrival of their countrymen in India, about 300 years ago, the Syrian Bishop of Angamalee (the place where I now am) deposited in the Fort of Cochin, for safe custody, certain tablets of brass, on which were engraved rights of nobility, and other privileges granted by a Prince of a former age ; and that while these Tablets were under the charge of the Portuguese, they had been unaccountably lost, and were never after heard of. Adrian Moens, a Governor of Cochin, in I770j who published some account of the Jews of Malabar, informs us that he used every means in his power, for many years, to obtain a sight of the famed Christian Plates ; and was at length satisfied that they were irrecoverably lost, or rather, he adds, that they never existed. The Learned in general, and the Antiquarian in particular, will be glad to hear jthat these ancient Tablets have been recovered within this last month by the exertions of Lieutenant- (Colonel Macauley, the British Resident in Travan-core, and are now officially deposited with that Officer. ‘ The Christian Tablets are six in number. They are composed of a mixed metal. The engraving on the largest plate is thirteen inches long, by about four broad. They are closely written, four of them on both sides of the plate, making in all eleven pages. On the plate reputed to be the oldest, there is writing perspicuously engraved in nail-headed or triangular- headed letters, resembling the Persepolitan or Babylonish. On the same plate there is writing in another character, which is supposed to have no affinity with any existing character in Hindoo* tan. The grant on this plate appears to be witnessed by four Jews of rank, whose names are distinctly engraved in an old Hebrew character, resembling the alphabet called the Palmyrene: and to each name is prefixed the title of ‘ Alagen,’ or Chief, as the Jews translated it. — It may be doubted, whether there exist in the world many documents of so great length, which are of equal antiquity, and in such faultless preservation, as the Christian Tablets of Malabar. — The Jews of Cochin indeed contest the palm of antiquity: for they also produce two Tablets, containing privileges granted at a remote period; of which they presented to me a Hebrew translation. As no person can be found in this country who is able to translate the Christian Tablets, I have directed an engraver at Cochin to execute a copper-plate facsimile of the whole, for the purpose of transmitting copies to the learned Societies in Asia and Europe. The Christian and Jewish plates together make fourteen pages. A copy was sent in the first instance to the Pundits of the Shanscrit College at Trichiar, by direction of the Rajah of Cochin ; but they could not read the character.* — From this place I proceed to Cande-nad, to visit the Bishop once more before I return to Bengal.’ [Claudius Buchanan, Two Discourses preached before the University of Cambridge, on the commencement of Subday July 1, 1810 and a sermon before the Society of Missions to Africa and the East; at their tenth anniversary. June 12, 1810. To which added Christian Researches in Asia, T. Cadell and W. Davies, in the Strand; and J. Deighton, Cambridge, London, 1811, pp.121-122.

6. In footnote, he recorded, “Most of the Manuscripts which I collected among the Syrian Christians, I have presented to the University of Cambridge; and (they are now deposited in the Public Library of that University, together with the copper-plate fac-similes of the Christian and Jewish Tablets.” (Ibid. P.122). Thus, it is evident that there were no originals of the said copper plates and thus, the available / claimed copper plates have no historical value.

7. I mentioned that, “…….historically, before the advent of the Portuguese, there was no historical record for the “St. Thomas myth in India”, but, Anoop draws my attention to “Anglo-saxon” stories. He says, Alfred sent “emissaries”, but the document say “expedition” and so on! By the way what happened to the “Christians of Bartholomew” in India? Are they also fighting with you? Thus, how they (the Anglo-saxon stories) help historically is not known.

8. Kindly elaborate about the Communists dealing with textbooks.

VEDAPRAKASH

02-08-2008
-------------------------
Post : 5511

Dear Friends,
History must be looked at objectively and the Opinion after research must be accepted.

Jesus of Galilee clearly told his Disciples, “ Do not take to the lands of Samaritans, go only to Jews” in Matthew 10.

There were no Jews in Kerala or Cheranadu earlier than 7th Century. Sangam Literature, Silapathikaram & Manimekalai gives Hundreds of quotes from Gos’s Revealtions of Veda, and uses Sanskrit words liberally, not one talks of any Hebrew Present.

How Reliable is Acts of Thomas?
Holy see’s Publisher “Burn Oares & Wash Boune Ltd’ has Published Multi Volume –“Butler’s Lives of Saints” Edited by Rev.Alban Butler (with Nihil Obstat & Imprimatur from Two Archbishop for its Doctrinal Acceptance) says-

“.. the Syrian Greek who was probably the fabricator of the Story would have been able to learn from Traders and Travelers such details as the name Gondophorus with Tropical details.. Pages 213-218, in Volume December-21.

The Authors have gone through all the major works of the claims of St.Thomas Indian visit claims and one of the highly acclaimed work of “The Early Spread of Christianity in India” – Alfred Mingana connected this with Apostle Thomas visit claims and clearly affirms-
. “ It is likely enough that the Malabar Coast was evangelized from Edessa at a later date, and . that in the course of time a confused tradition connected this with Apostle Thomas himself.”

On Ramban Pattu Tradition http://www.stmaryssharjah.com,
and article titled ST. THOMAS THE APOSTLE- Written by Mr. Mathen Manathala says-
“This tradition has many contradictions and factual errors. First of all there were no Brahmins in the Malabar Coast until the eight century. Secondly, the places where he is supposed to have founded churches were non existent as those parts of the western coast were still under the Arabian Sea. Thirdly, ordination of Kassesos and “Rambans” was not practiced in Christianity until the first quarter of the second century any where in the world. The only written evidence to this Malabar tradition is found in the “Ramban Pattu” supposed to be written in early 17th century, but the language used denotes a much later time, sometime in the 19th century.”

The Archaelogical findings at Mylapur include a proof for Sivan Temple and Muruga

From the Book-
திருமயிலைத் திருத்தலம்- இலக்கிய, வரலாற்றுப் பார்வை,
பேராசிரியர். Dr.சு.ராஜசேகரன்.,1989,
Doctral Thesis done in 1986, on the Same name at Madras University, the Author was then working as Tamil Professor at Nandanam Govt. Arts College, Chennai.

The Author Analyses various Stone Inscriptions and Archeological findings from Kapalishwarar Temple and Santhome and gives his views.

இப்போதுள்ள கபாலிசுவரர் கோயில், நாயன்மார்களால் பாடப் பெற்ற பழைய கபாலிசுவரர் கோயில் என்ற பொதுவான நம்பிக்கை மக்களிடையே நிலவி வருகிறது. ஆனால், தொல்பொருள் ஆராய்ச்சியாளர்கள் சாந்தோமில் கண்டெடுத்த புதைபொருள்களிலிருந்து பழைய கோயில் வேறு இடத்தில் இருந்திருக்க வேண்டும் என்றும், பெரும்பாலும் சாந்தோம் கடற்கரையாக இருக்கலாம் என்றும் எண்ண வேண்டியிருக்கிறது.. .. பழைய கபாலிசுவரர் கோயிலலின் இடிபாடுகள் இப்போதுள்ள கோயிலுக்குச் சிறிது தொலைவில் கிழக்கு திசையில் சாந்தோம் கடற்கரையருகே கண்டு எடுக்கப்பட்டதே இதற்குக் காரணமாகும்.

1923இல் தொல்பொருள் ஆய்வுத் துறையினர் சாந்தோம் கதிட்ரலில் நிகழ்த்திய அகழ்வாராய்ச்சிகளால் கல்வெட்டுகளும், தூண்களும், சிலைகளும் கண்டெடுக்கப்பட்டன. கல்வெட்டுகள் சிவன் கோயிலைக் குறிக்கின்றன. கற்றூண்களிலும் கல்வெட்டுகள் காணப்பெறுகின்றன. மயிலோடு கூடிய முருகர் சிலையும் கண்டெடுக்கப்பட்டது. 1921இல் மறைத்திரு ஹோஸ்டன், சாந்தோம் கதிட்ரலில் கண்டெடுத்த வடமொழிக் கல்வெட்டு “கருவறை உட்பட எல்லாக் கட்டிடங்களும் மயிலாப்பூரிலுள்ள புகழ்பெற்ற சிவனுக்கும் பார்வதிக்கும் உரியவையாகும்” என்று குறிப்பிடுபகிறது. மற்றொரு தானக் கல்வெட்டில், “திருமயிலாப்பில் பூம்பாவை” என்று குறிப்பிடுப்படுவதாலும், பழைய கபாலிசுவரர் கோயில் கடற்கரையருகே இருந்திருக்க வேண்டும் என்பது புலனாகிறது.

அருணகிரிநாதர் திருப்புகளில் கபாலிசுவரர் கோயில் கடற்கரை அருகே இருந்தது என்று குறிப்பிடுப்படுவதால், பழைய கோயில் கடற்கரையருகே இருந்திருக்க வேண்டும் என்று கே.வி..இராமன் கருதிகிறார். பக்கம்287,288

இந்திய மக்கள் தொகைக் கணக்கெடுப்புத்துறை வெளியிட்ட சென்னை மாநிலக் கோயில்கள் (Temples of Madas State) என்னும் நூலில் காணப்படும் கருத்துக்கள் :
கி.பி. 16ஆம் நூற்றாண்டின் தொடக்கத்தில் சாந்தோம் கடற்கரையிலிருந்த கோயில் போர்த்துக்கீசியர்களால் அழிக்கப் பட்டிருக்க வேண்டும் என்று கூறுகிறது. இந்நூல் கூறும் புதிய செய்தி, இப்போத்ள்ள கபாலிசுவரர் கோயிலும் குளமும் முந்நூறு ஆண்டுகளுக்கு முன், மயிலை நாட்டு முத்தையப்ப முதலியாராலும் அவருடைய வாரிசுகளிலாலும் கட்டப்பட்டது என்பதேயாகும். (பக்-289 – Quotes Census of India-1961; Temples of Madras State, 1 Chingleput District and Madras City, P.204)

The Present Temple very clearly shows for Schoalrs that it was constructed only in 17th Cen. CE, few Tamil Schloars maintained that the Old Temple was in same place, and the Present Temple was constructed above it. Another Set of Scholars maintained that the Older Temple was in Sea Shore(Mostly the Present Santhome Cathedral) and the Author analyses various books on Mylapur Temple and comes to the Conclusion as below, and he before concluding quotes the Historic fact-
போர்த்துக்கீசியர்கள் இந்துக் கோயில்களை அழித்த செய்தியைக் கேள்விப்பட்டு இராமராயர் கி.பி. 1558இல், சாந்தோம் மீது படை எடுத்துப் போர்த்துக்கீசியரைப் பணிய வைத்துப் பின்னர்ப் பழுதுபட்ட கோயில்களைப் பழுதுபார்க்க ஆணையில்ட்ட செய்தியாலும் பழைய கபாலிசுவரர் கோயில் போர்த்துக்கீசியர்களால் .(Quotes from S.Kalyanasundaram-A Short History of Mylapore page-8) அழிக்கப் பட்டது என்ற முடிவுக்கு வரலாம்.
ஆகவே, முடிபாக, பழைய கபாலிசுவரர் கோயில், கடற்கரையருகே இருந்ததென்பதையும், கி.பி. பதினைந்தாம் நூற்றாண்டின் இறுதியில் போர்த்துக்கீசியரால் அழிக்கப் பட்டதென்பதையும், கி.பி. பதினாறாம் நுற்றாண்டில் இப்போதுள்ள இடத்தில் புதிய கோயில், மயிலை நாட்டு நயினியப்ப முத்தையப்ப முதலியார் மகன் முதலியாரால் கட்டப் பெற்றது என்பதையும் தெற்றென உணரலாம். -பக்கம் 291 திருமயிலைத் திருத்தலம்- இலக்கிய, வரலாற்றுப் பார்வை, பேராசிரியர்.
Dr.சு.ராஜசேகரன்.,1989,
Doctral Thesis done in 1986, on the Same name at Madras University, the Author was then working as Tamil Professor at Nandanam Govt. Arts College, Chennai.

When One claims Historical details, certainly True and Objective Scholars based on research can deny or accept based on his research. Vedaprakash can you put your book- online and give Link.

Let us analyse Thomai fable traditions in depth.
DEVAPRIYA
--------------------------------
Post : 5537

We have enough Literature of BCE-500 Onwards about Cheranadu.

Not a Single word of Hebrew/Greek has entered in to Tamil.

Jews were never Sea Travellers in History and moved to neighbouring Egypt and Persia Arabia only.

After Persia & Arabia became Muslim only they started moving out to Greater Distances.

I quote from History of Christianity-Vol-I A.M.Mundaden:
“Dr.Walter J. Fischel, ‘the Greatest Authories on the Jews of Cochin’ prefersto refrain from taking any definite position regarding the pre-sixteenth century history of Kerala Jews.” Page-20

Tamils were great Sea Travellers and as per History and atleast 25 words have gone to Old Testament which can be dated to its present shape between BCE350-ce150.

I also refer to “Church History of Travancore” by C.M.Agur, (released by the Church in commemoration of Centenary Celebrations of the Church in 1903) reprint 1990, refers to the Merchant Thomas of Cana who came in 745 AD and clearly affirms-

“ Long after his Death the people Canonised him and the Subsequent Generation confused St.Thomas the Armenian Merchant with St.Thomas the Apostle, who never came to Malabar. This Confusion becomes more potent when we look in to the names of the Churches said to have been founded by the Merchant Thomas are Identical with the names of the Churches attributed to St.Thomas. Page-12
Devapriya

The very name of God- “EL” “EL-Shaddai” are burrowed from Tamil and has no proper roots are etymology as per Bible Lexicons.

As for Kerala was always Vedic and that is conclusively been proved by various Sangam Lit. I can put the Verses in Tamil or readers can go to http://www.tamil.net/projectmadurai.

As per Acta Thomas -
The Ninth Act: of the Wife of Charisius.

87 And when the apostle had said these things in the hearing of all the multitude, they trode and pressed upon one another: and the wife of Charisius the king’s kinsman Ieapt out of her chair and cast herself on the earth before the apostle, and caught his feet and besought and said: O disciple of the living God, Thou Art Come Into A Desert Country, For We Live In The Desert; being like to brute beasts in our conversation, but now shall we be saved by thy hands; I beseech thee, therefore, take thought of me, and pray for me, that the compassion of the God whom thou preachest may come upon me, and I may become his dwelling place and be joined in prayer and hope and faith in him, and I also may receive the seal and become an holy temple and he may dwell in me.
-----------------------------
Post : 5610

Dear Friends,

We need to analyse the data in Full and not live in Superstitions, and I QUOTE from

Bible As Literature, Oxford University Press,
written by 3 Professors John.A.Gabel, Charles B.Wheelr and Antony.D.York.

How was Hebrews living during OT times.

The small Corner of the Eastern Mediterranean, we have to keep reminding ourselves that it take up only Lower Third of that coast- particularly speaking was the Whole World to them.
Page-77

With Just a Few Exceptions, No Canaanite Or Israelite City before the Roman Period occupied more area than that of an American University Football Stadium, most Villages were hardly bigger than the Playing Field itself. King’ David’s Jerusalem is estimated to have measured about 300 x 1300 foot. Inside the City-walls houses would be crammed together according to no particular pattern, leaving room for Passages bu not for Streets. Before the Greek Period there were no Public Building of the Kind that we take for granted, provided by the Municipal Government.
Pages- 87,88

Foreign Countries appear in the OT only as Military Allies or Enemies of the Israelites or as the Habitat of Alien Gods; otherwise, not a Slightest interest is shown in them.
Page-77

The Best Opportunity for Economic Development, it might seem was One they never took; Commerce by Sea with Mediterranean always at their door, the Israelites stubbornly remained a Land Locked People. They were effectively Shut off from the Coast at first by the Philistines, but the warfare between the two, more had to do with the Philistines attempt to expand toward the east than with any desire of the Israelite to gain access to Sea. Although the Palestinian Coast has no natural Harbors south of Carmel, this need not have been a Permanent Obstacle.
The Israelites were Content to Let others – Phoenicians and Egyptians conduct their Merchant Shipping for them, almost as though they Believed the Covenant Language in its Narrowest Sense as a Promise of Land and Nothing Further.

It is clear from their writings in the OT THAT THE SEA WAS ALWAYS to them, had no significant part to Play in their Thought.

Pages 86-87.

This is Historical Position
-------------------------------
Post : 5611

Now you refer to the Acta Thomae and refer to Jewish Girl.
Dr.Joseph Kolangodan wrote a book “The History of Apostle Thomas” and it has the total appraisal from a fellow Christian, Professor John Ochanthurthi, Dept. of History, Calicut University

As the Well known Orientalist and Syriac Scholar George Every in his book, “CHRISTIAN Mythology” “India of this Legend(Acta) is cerainly not Malabar and may not be in the Indian Peninsula”
Page-76
“As for as I could see from all the Shreds of Quotations presented by Prof. Kolangadan in this Volume, the antiquity of St.Thomas Tradition in South India cannot go beyond 13th Century. So for as direct and explicit support in favour of the St.Thomas Tradition in South India is concerned, I have No Doubt that the answer must be, None. Neither the Church Fathers nor the Apocrypal Acts say anything explicityly about Malabar.” Page 79
------------------------
Post : 5619

Dear Friends,

I have given the level of Civilization and nature of Hebrews.

As for the name Malankara is it is the corruption of the Tamil word Maliankara.

Mal in Tamil is God-Vishnu.
Iyan is God -Siva who is called El-Shaddai in Bible OT.
Karai is Land.
Kara- The Land recovered from Sea around 8th Century CE.
The lands surrounding today’s Kodunkallore and 5 or 6 of the Churches referred in 19TH Century Ramban Pattu were below sea and the very name where Ramban song says Thomas landed is Maliankara.
-----------------------

[Husky]

(x-post)



http://www.scribd.com/doc/38527255/2010-...war-Sharan

The latest edition of the book The Myth Of St Thomas by Ishwar Sharan



++ The introduction with its footnotes

[Husky]

Moved.



Hamsa.org doesn't seem to be around anymore.

The new home of the Ishwar Sharan Archive - previously at hamsa.org - is at:

http://ishwarsharan.wordpress.com/.





Back in 1991:

http://ishwarsharan.wordpress.com/parts-...rnational/

Christians Threaten To Bomb Kamakoti Magazine – Hindu Voice International



Madras, Sept. 22, 1991. Christian fanatics have sent a letter to Kanchi Kamakoti Shankaracharya Math, Kanchipuram, threatening to bomb the office of Kamakoti, a journal edited by T.S.V. Hari and published by T.V.S. Giri from Madras, if it does not stop a serial on the Hindu temples destroyed by Christians and converted into churches in the yesteryears. The journal has been publishing the serial based on authoritative historical sources and evidences produced by renowned research scholars.[1] Even The Vedanta Kesari, a monthly of Ramakrishna Math, published from Madras, had recently carried an article by no less a person than Swami Tapasyananda, Vice-President of the Math, pointing to evidences of the destruction of the ancient Kapaleeswara Temple which was converted into Santhome Church.[2] It is learnt that a copy of the threatening letter from fanatic Christians has been forwarded to the authorities for necessary action. The publisher of the journal, without commenting on the letter, told our correspondent that they do not intend to stop the serial succumbing to the threat.



____________



1.The series began in June 1991 with an article on the St. Thomas myth and the destruction of the Kapaleeswara Temple by the Portuguese. It continued for three months with articles on St. Ignatius Loyola and St. Francis Xavier and the destruction of temples in Madras, Chingleput and Arcot districts by Muslims. The source materials for the articles were Voice of India publications.



2. See “The Legend of a Slain Saint to Stain Hinduism” reproduced in Part IV this book.

Imagine what christians will do when they have cemented their power.

Actually, no need to imagine: Cast your mind back. To Rome.



Interesting psychosis that: first christianism destroys Hindoos' Temples and takes over the Temple sites. Then, when Hindoos write the plain facts about how christianism destroyed-and-took-over sacred Hindoo temple sites, christianism threatens to destroy Hindoos again. (More of why Christianism=islam.)





But despite christians aiming to pound heathens into the earth again (with bombs this time) for exposing christianism's crimes against heathens, the facts are as follows. From Rajeev Srinivasan's interview of Ishwar Sharan:



http://ishwarsharan.wordpress.com/append...rinivasan/

» RS: The great Kapaleeswara Temple in Mylapore, Madras, was demolished, according to you, and that is where the San Thome Cathedral now stands. This is news to many people who believe temple demolition was largely a Muslim act.



» IS: The evidence for the demolition of the original Kapaleeswar Temple is according to a variety of sources including government records and archaeological reports. There is the presence of temple rubble in the San Thome Cathedral walls and in the grounds of Bishop’s House (removed since my book’s publication). The news of the demolition of the original temple was not news to anybody of a past generation and was discussed in the Madras newspapers during British times. The origins of the present Kapaleeswara Temple are recorded and directly reflect and confirm the destruction of the original temple.



It is true that Hindus do not associate temple breaking with Christians. That is due to the success of the historical cover-up of which the ASI and the state archaeological departments are partly responsible. But we from the West know better about Christian history and have access to a vast stock of published material that is not usually available in India. We know that every great pagan temple in Europe and the Mediterranean basin was destroyed and replaced with a church after Christianity gained political ascendancy in the Roman Empire. We also know that it is not any different in India today where Christian missionaries hold sway in remote tribal areas because we have seen the evidence.



In Central India, Orissa, the North-East, even Arunachal Pradesh and Nepal where missionaries cannot officially operate, village temples are demolished and sacred images broken by new converts. The video films of these “good works” are then shown on TV in Europe where missionaries go to collect funds for their evangelizing effort. It is even happening in Tamil Nadu today. District authorities turn a blind eye to these crimes when they are paid off.



Temple breaking in India seems to have originated in the 7th, 8th or 9th century with Nestorian Christian immigrants from Persia. They built churches on the broken temple foundations and then attributed the temple breaking to St. Thomas himself by claiming he built the churches in the 1st century. Franciscan, Dominican, and Jesuit priests destroyed temples in Goa, Malabar, and Tamil Nadu in the 16th century. St. Francis Xavier left a fascinating written record of his temple-breaking work on the Coromandel Coast. The Portuguese entombed the Vel Ilangkanni Amman Temple near Nagapattinam and turned it into the famous Velankanni church called Our Lady of Health Basilica. The Jesuits destroyed the Vedapuri Iswaran Temple in Pondicherry and the Cathedral of Our Lady of the Immaculate Conception now sits on the site. The list is very long. Christians were destroying temples long before the Muslims got into the act.

[Husky]

A bit like the "history as taught in Pakistan" thread. Here, it's history as the christian Goan minority of ~25% (even some emigrees among them) would have "Goans" and "Indians" know it. Why, after finally moving away, these aliens need to speak about the ancestrally (forever) Hindu and still Hindu-majority (2/3 Hindu) Gomantak is beyond me.



Purple lines are comments inserted by me.





www.mail-archive.com/goanet@goanet.org/msg35110.html

[Goanet] Re: Goan migration

Anthony and Nolette de Souza

Fri, 13 Jan 2006 04:14:12 -0800





Hi, All!



I agree with Senhor Bernado Colasco about the need to educate

Anglos about Goa and debunk the misleading articles and books written by them.



We have Anglo-Australians who visit Goa for a month but reckon they

know all about that sorrowing land -- this without carrying out any

indepth research. After such a short stay in Goa, they pose as experts and

write a load of bull.



Even if some of us detest Portugal [color="#800080"](not the writer Martinho, obviously)[/color], we must give the devil his

due: Portugal has devoted a lot of resources to study Goan History. A

visit to the National Musuem @ Lisboa will confirm the extensive and

intensive study made there re: Goa. [color="#0000FF"]Even after being hounded out, the

Portuguese are continuing to explore all aspects of Goanity:- culture,

socioeconomic structure, political identity, etc.[/color]

[color="#800080"]("Even after being hounded out, the Portuguese still explore our christo unculture."

Note the Stockholm syndrome which the catholics in Indian skins have about their beloved christoportuguese, who were the true invaders and the true bloody occupiers of Hindu Gomantak.)[/color]



As for Indian scholars, they distort the history of our land.

Much of what these pseudosocialscientists write is really social

engineering to brainwash and "re-educate" our children and youth. Children @

schools in Goa attend regular (even daily) assemblies and cultural clinics

where they are programmed to salute the flag of the [color="#0000FF"]invaders[/color], shout "JAI

HIND!" and sing 'Jana Gana Mana'.



The methods the [color="#0000FF"]Indian Occupiers[/color] use are similar to those used by

the Indonesian invaders before they were driven out by the East Timor. Timor

Leste today is a poverty-striken State with a population of only one million

but the Timorese prefer freedom to bowing to foreigners and kissing their

bloody feet. .



[color="#0000FF"] Imperialism today is no longer just White but of all hues:-

Yellow Imperialism in Tibet, Black Imperialism in Nigeria and Brown

Imperialism in Goa, Jammu, Kashmir, Nepal, Bhutan, etc. Nobody's hands are

clean.[/color]

[color="#800080"](Says the 25% christian imperialists - the ongoing christian parasitism in Gomantak - about the identity of the 2/3 native Hindus of Gomantak, who belong to the native Hindus of the rest of Bharatam.)[/color]



Unless Goans unite and stand for their rights, Goa will continue to

be an unhappy land like Iraq, West Papua, etc.





Martinho





MESSAGE



From : "Bernado Colaco" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2006 2:31 PM

Subject: Re: [Goanet] Goan migration



> Dear Gentleman,

>

> Congratulations on your post. Most of the historical

> nonsense about Goa comes from the Anglo Saxon rascals.

> And this indeed to suit their ends.

>

> Our own historic in Portugal is also a part of this

> scheme.

>

> B. Colaço



[color="#800080"](Such an irony in the above, how it speaks of Anglo Saxons as "rascals" or screeches about "Anglo Australians", all while these Indian christian sheep - themselves most allergic to all things Indian and speaking of the native Indians as "occupiers", even though Gomantak is still 2/3 Hindu and which 2/3rd - who are the *true* natives - naturally considers itself Indian.)[/color]

And then, at the end, the duo returns (presumably stung by the thought others recognised it as a bigot) with "I don't hate Indians. But us catholics are good, and the non-Goans - i.e. Indians - are evil, exploiting us":



www.mail-archive.com/goanet@goanet.org/msg35223.html

[Goanet] Re: Goan migration

Anthony and Nolette de Souza

Sun, 15 Jan 2006 14:27:28 -0800

Hi, All



I give the impression that I'm anti-Indian. This is far from the truth

(says the sheep Martinho, after calling Indians "occupiers" and "invaders" and alluding to them through example as "foreigners" in their own land, all while drooling all over the foreign christoportuguese invaders who occupied Hindu Gomantak)

as some of my best friends are Indians,

[color="#800080"](standard christian tactic to brush of allegations of innate bigotry: "love the sinner, hate the sin <-> Look, to prove my christian charity, I now produce my token Gay friend. I still know he is going to hell, of course - gawd says he deserves it - but the babble tells me to christo-love him all the same.")[/color]

The word 'Catholic' means 'universal'

and it's difficult for a Catholic to hate a country; in fact, our religion

makes us charitable, all-embracing and compassionate so that [color="#0000FF"]non-Goans[/color] take advantage of our good nature to exploit us.

[color="#800080"]("Non-Goans" is a reference to the heathen Hindu infidels, contrasted as it is with the "good nature" of "us catholics".

At the same time, the above statement implicitly but deliberately equates "Goans" with catholics, thereby totally silencing/making invisible the native Hindu majority of Gomantak.)[/color]



Martinho



----- Original Message -----



URGENT MESSAGE

>

TO:-

MEMBERS OF THE GOAN DIASPORA,

>

KINDLY SEND, THROUGH YOUR GLOBALLY-BASED GOAN OVERSEAS

ASSOCIATIONS OR OTHER CHARITABLE ORGANIZATIONS, CONTAINERS LOADED

WITH

WOODWORKING TOOLS*, METALWORK EQUIPMENT*, COMPUTERS* + OTHER

OFFICE

EQUIPMENT* OR STATIONERY TO CATHOLIC MISSIONS/ORPHANAGES, ETC., IN GOA

FOR

USE BY ORPHANED OR OTHER DISADVANTAGED CHILDREN THERE.

[color="#800080"](Begs the question: are the - this time, wannabe - christoPortuguese catholics going back to their old

game of kidnapping the native Hindu children and putting them into christian "orphanages" for the "crime" of their

parents still adhering to Hindu religion? That's what the christoPortuguese colonials famously did, after all.)[/color]

THANKS A MILLION & GOD BLESS YOU!



Martinho



*These items need not be brandnew: even secondhand or reconditioned

items will be gratefully accepted by Goan charitable organizations.

Some

well-intentioned British, European. American, NZ + Australian

individuals

+ NGO's have, out of the goodness of their hearts, already sent some

educational equipment to Goa. However, there is still room for more..

Please find it in your hearts to help the Oliver Twists

(including non-Goan ones) in Goa. Obrigado!

I'm sure Martinho is working in some missionary overdrive org trying to turn "Goans", i.e. christians (including new-generation abductees into the faith)

into anti-Indians for a "Free Goa for christ".





It's amazing how christians have become "The Goans" and are somehow allowed to speak as "natives", in place of the actual indigenous: Hindus (even when Hindus are still the majority!)

Just like in Kashmir, where the mohammedans have become "The Kashmiris" and have overridden all of the indigenous of Kashmir, who are the real Kashmiris = Hindus.

But then, all over the world, heathens have but the right to remain silent while christoislamics try to usurp all identity of nativeness from the true natives, and then clamour for the world to believe their claim as rightful.





I wonder where Ayaan Hirsi Ali is. She said that islam sowed discord wherever it went. Yet christianism is exactly the same.

The christos came, forced the indigenous Hindus into becoming unwilling sheep and now their sheep progeny are willing sheep, violently hateful of Hindus and all things Hindu and violently in love with the christo aliens for converting them to christoism. (Dinesh De Souza isn't the only christo sheep saying "Two cheers for colonialism", with which he means the Tough Love of christianism: a ref to the violence with which the blind Hindoos were introduced to the 'enlightening' christianism. He even regarded Africans as being in debt to the slaveholders for the same...)

And no reversion of these entities looks to even be possible, they're as far gone into christianism as the sheep occupying Greece and Rome etc.



What a disease. It is utterly confounding.

[HareKrishna]

In the fight against communism, USA did suport a large series of extremist christian .

[Husky]

Three related items. On the continued peddling of the "jeebus in Kashmir" fable. Apparently it's not just christians who were doing it. Hindus were willing to delude their own kind too, it seems:



1. bharatabharati.wordpress.com/2011/11/27/did-jesus-die-in-kashmir-abu-abraham/



At the end of an old news article posted there, Ishwar Sharan comments on the nonsense:

Editor’s Postscript: We have learned to our astonishment that the RSS promotes the Jesus-in-India story as official propaganda. If this is true, then the old men who guide and manage that great nationalist organisation are to be condemned for their cynicism. They offend all Indians, Christian and Hindu alike, with this fabulous story created by Nicholas Notovitch and published in Paris in 1894. Notovitch was immediately exposed and his travel tale debunked by Prof. Max Muller who asked him for proofs. Notovitch could not provide any proofs. The Abbot of Hemis Monastery in Ladakh, where Jesus allegedly studied and where the alleged manuscripts of “Saint Issa” were kept, condemned Notovitch as a liar, and the British official concerned with the Ladakh area stated that Notovitch had never visited the monastery or its environs. In fact Hemis Monastery did not exist until the 11th century. Later renditions of the story by various authors declare the Hindu religion to be superstitious and degenerate and present Hindus as bigots who will not accept the superior teachings of Jesus. But the question that should concern Hindus in India, is why the RSS would accept and promote this Hindu-baiting, anti-national tale in the first place. What can be their possible motivation? – IS

2. rajeev2004.blogspot.com/2011/11/swami-devananda-writes-to-sadhu-your.html

(The new layout at the Rajeev2004 blog is rather difficult...)

swami devananda writes to a sadhu: Your Jesus-in-India story on Sulekha

nov 28th, 2011 CE





jesus is a fabrication by paul. very convenient for the church in its mission of world conquest.

[color="#800080"](Saul/Paul itself has long been shown to be a fabrication. See at end of this quoteblock. *)[/color]





---------- Forwarded message ----------

From: Swami Devananda Saraswati



Sadhu Rangarajanji,

Namaskar,





Some months ago you sent me an essay containing the Jesus-in-India tale. I ignored it and stopped publishing your articles. I had lost confidence in your discriminating powers and motives too (having remembered that you had once taught Gita to trainee priests in a Christian seminary in Poonamallee). I could not fathom why, after the excellent articles you had already submitted, you had decided to submit the Jesus-in-India tale too, especially as you knew I denounced it.





However as the tale is doing the rounds again by email, and seeing that you have published the story on Sulekha as Was Jesus a Hindu yogi? [color="#800080"](sadhu.sulekha.com/blog/post/2004/01/was-jesus-a-hindu-yogi.htm)[/color], I am going to repeat the facts behind the tale again, as I believe I once told them to you years ago at your house in Triplicane.





Swami Abhedananda, the Indian 'authority' for the Jesus story, was no historian and we know today that many of the early Ramakrishna-ites invented stories to serve their own purposes (such as the untrue story that Ramakrishna saw Jesus and Muhammad in a vision). Abhedananda went to Hemis monastery and saw some documents. What he really saw we will never know. But he also resorts to the unworthy etymological argument that is so favoured by Hindus: If the words sound the same, then they must be the same or mean the same thing. It is a false argument and no credible scholar accepts it.

[color="#800080"](About the statement that RKP having envisioned jeebus and mohammed is untrue: any veracity to this? Isn't it part of some biography that RKP had such a vision? If it's untrue, who wrote the biography? And why write it in?)[/color]





An example is: "According to Swami Abhedananda, the illustrious gurubhai of Swami Vivekananda, Essenes emerged from the Nath Yogis of India. "Essene" or "Ishana" is Shiva. "Ishani" or Isha Nath" is the follower of Shiva. Ernest Renan says, that Bondasp (Bodhisattva) is the founder of Subeism or Baptism, the origin of the Mendiates, the Christians of St. John, the Baptist." and so on. All of it is possible, none of it is probable and none of it has supporting third-party historical documentation. It is all romantic theory.





You give a whole list of authorities in your essay. But in fact the 'authorities' are only quoting the author before them and each other. It all leads back to Notovitch the Russian forger.





This was the period of Theosophy and any fantastic romantic notion of Jesus and religion became grist for the theosophical mill and its Indian Neo-Vedantic equivalents.





The reason Jesus is the object of these tales is because Jesus himself is a fictional character. There is no authoritative historical evidence for his existence. As the hero of the New Testament gospels, he may be modelled on the Essene Teacher of Righteousness. But nobody knows. It is all theory and speculation. Because of 2000 years of aggressive Christian propaganda, Jesus has become a real historical person in the minds of most people. In fact the Christian claim to religious superiority is that Jesus was a real historical person while Rama and Krishna are only mythological persons. But the truth may be the reverse. As Koenraad Elst says, there is more literary evidence for Sri Rama than there is for St. Thomas. I say the same is true for Jesus and Sri Rama.





Years ago I looked into the sources for the Jesus-in-India story as it is related to the Thomas-in-India story. I also discussed it at some length with Sita Ram Goel. When it came to historical facts, Goel was brutally honest. If the story was even partially true, he would have said so. But he didn't. He consigned it to the dust bin along with the Thomas-in-India legend. What I remember of the discussion is this:



1.The story was invented by the Russian journalist Nicolas Notovitch. It was written in a very convincing style and attracted a lot of readers at the time including Hindus who swallowed everything and anything the Europeans gave them (the way Tagore, Bengal's great intellectual and Nobel Prize winner, swallowed the Aryan Invasion Theory!).



2.Max Muller asked Notovitch for proofs about his claim for Jesus in Kashmir. Notovitch was not able to produce any proofs.



3.The abbot of Hemis monastery denounced Notovitch as a liar.



4.The British official concerned stated that Notovitch had never visited Ladakh.



5.The present Hemis monastery, the one Notovitch allegedly visited, did not exist till the 17th century. The earlier monastery, which was built in the 10th century, was burned down shortly after it opened. What it contained in its library is any body's guess. But we can be sure Jesus never visited the place as it didn't exist in the 1st century!



6.The whole tale hinges on the term 'Isa', Issa', or 'Isha' as the name of Jesus in the documents. But 'Isa' is Sanskrit for "lord'. By what rational has this term got associated with Jesus? It could refer to anybody. In a Buddhist monastery it can refer to Buddha or a Tibetan saint. Why does it refer to Jesus specifically? The name 'Jesus' must appear in the documents before it can be said he is in the documents!



7.The term 'Issa' for Jesus in the Koran has no meaning according to my Arabic translator. There are a number of words like this in Arabic that cannot be explained, including the term 'Allah'. They are non-existent words in Arabic!

[color="#800080"](Isn't Allah the old heathen Arabic personal name for one of their particular Gods? And that it was after islam that the word just came to mean a generic "gawd" entity and is hence used by both christian and muslim Arabians?)[/color]



8.The so-called Jesus cave is the Vashitha Guha above Rishikesh. Take a close look at the photo on the Atma Jyoti website and see for yourself (www.atmajyoti.org/spirwrit-the_christ_of_india.asp). The Atma Jyoti people are Christian priests who present themselves as Hindu sannyasis. They are frauds and their photo is fraudulent. I have visited the cave. Have you?

(http://bharatabharati.wordpress.com/2011...saraswati/)



9.The Roza Bal tomb in Srinagar contains a Sufi saint and a Mogul ambassador to Egypt. The Mogul ambassador's tomb is the 'Jesus' in the shrine. The ambassador had converted to Christianism in Egypt and so Christian symbols have been added to his grave.



10.Christians did not adopt the cross as a symbol until after the 3rd century AD--some scholars say as late as the 6th century. The cross and crucifix were originally Greek Orphic symbols and abhorrent to early Christians who were practising Jews. Certainly Jesus (or Thomas) would not have used a cross as an identifying sign.



11.The crosses found in Kashmir and Kerala--'Thomas crosses'--were made by Nestorian Christian missionaries who passed from Kerala up the west coast to Kashmir and on to China in the 8th and 9th centuries. The cross was introduced into India in the 4th century by Syrian Christian immigrants from Mesopotamia.



12.All the Jesus-in-India stories present Hindus as bigoted and violent idolaters who would not accept Jesus as a great teacher with superior teachings. The Jesus-in-India stories were invented to malign Hindus and show the inferiority of the Hindu religion.



13.The so-called Hindu-Buddhist influences in the New Testament are in fact Neo-Platonic influences though it is recognised that there were Hindu and Buddhist scholars in Alexandria or the nearby desert from as early as the 3rd century BC. Hindu sadhus are like leaves and get blown around the world. Our glob-trotting godmen are not a new phenomenon and sadhus have always been great travellers.



14.The famous Sermon on the Mount so beloved by Gandhi is a Pagan, probably Neo-Platonic, interpolation into the New Testament. Certainly it does not represent the attitude of Jesus whose 'great love of mankind' did not include his own people the Jews. Jesus is the first anti-Semite and the New Testament the origin of anti-Semitism. Jesus' love for mankind is a theological invention and not what he really was about. He cursed pigs and fig trees and denied his mother at the marriage of Cana. He had a pronounced misogynistic attitude. According the the Carpocratians, and early Christian sect, Jesus and Lazarus were lovers. But his act of denying his mother at Cana would put him beyond the human pale for the Hindu and make him completely unacceptable as a religious teacher.



[color="#0000FF"]15.Lastly, this story cannot be accepted by believing Christians and is considered blasphemy. If Jesus did not die on the cross and shed his blood for his followers, Christians are not saved. That is the doctrine of all Christian sects and denominations. For the Christian there is no alternative except a crucified and dead Jesus.[/color]

But the real question is why do you promote this silly anti-Hindu fable in the first place? What is your objective? What is the lacunae in Hindu religion that you need to add Jesus to the pantheon of Himilayan rishis and saints?





[color="#0000FF"]Isn't this just another manifestation of the Hindu 'spiritual ego' at work. Hindus nationalists want to own for themselves everything spiritual in the world--everything! So Jesus has to be made Hindu too--by hook or by crook![/color]



But Jesus wasn't a very nice man. Read your New Testament, Rangarajanji! Jesus contributed absolutely nothing original to the world's vast body of spiritual knowledge except a curse. The curse is that all those who didn't accept his claims would burn in hell-fire for eternity.





No Hindu mahatma would or could ever make such a curse as this! Even against his enemies!





And while Hindu nationalists are busy collecting the gods of other religions as their own, why not add Muhammad too? Muhammad, who had a Jewish rabbi as a teacher, was only copying the teaching of Moses and Jesus. So if Jesus is 'Hindu', why can't Muhammad be Hindu too?





But Hindus in their great wisdom will not add Muhammad to their pantheon of Hindu saints!





Poor Jesus! He is everything to to everybody because he never really existed. He is a fictional literary character in the New Testament. No historian believes Jesus was a historical person any more! Christianity is a dead cult except in India and California and the White House. In India everything lives on forever in the Hindu imagination. So Jesus will live on too. Future anthropologists and archaeologists will come to India to study the Jesus cult as there will be no other place for them to find it!





Your argument that Jesus and Church are different is a very fanciful Hindu argument. The Church is built on the personality and teachings of Jesus and is the institutionalised form of Jesus and his teachings. Hindus deceive themselves when they say they accept Jesus but not Churchianity. If Hindus accept Jesus it is inevitable that they will take a soft attitude to the Church too.

[color="#0000FF"](The christian church is the manifestation of the christianism mindvirus. The two are inseperable.)[/color]





So what do you have to say about all of this, Rangarajanji? You are an international, globe-trotting guru with devotees in South Africa. You have built a temple to Bharat Mata in Bangalore which is highly commendable. You have served Hindus all of your life. You have met and been blessed by innumerable saints in your lifetime including our dear Yogiji. But still you hunger after Jesus! Why?





Perhaps you should reflect on this Jesus-in-India story before repeating it to others. Many Hindus take your word as Veda vakyas. Are you willing to assume the authority of Rishi Vyasa vis-a-vis the Jesus-in-India tale?





Think about it, Sadhuji!



Swami Devananda

Pondicherry

* That Saul/Paul never existed either can be seen at http://freetruth.50webs.org/B2c.htm#PaulineEpistles

Example:

The Falsified Paul: Early Christianity in the Twilight by Hermann Detering (of the Radical Criticism school), translated and made available here in its complete form online, along with a summary outline. In short:

This book shows that all the Pauline letters are all 2nd-Century fabrications, Catholically redacted from Marcionite gnostic dualist-god original versions.

Dutch Radical Criticism is the usual name of a school that in the nineteenth century arose within Dutch New Testament scholarship that contested

a) the historical existence of Jesus of Nazareth and/or

b ) the authenticity of the lot of the Pauline Epistles.

[Link] http://www.depts.drew.edu/jhc/detering.html

3. Another link with more on this:

vivekajyoti.blogspot.com/2009/02/jesus-in-india-pure-unadulterated.html