Islamism - 5

Bodhi · (This post was last modified: 07-28-2006, 05:01 AM by Bodhi.)

QUOTE(Mudy @ Jul 27 2006, 05:04 PM)Why this mullah is beating himself, is it related to Shia?
[right][snapback]54714[/snapback][/right]

Yes Mudy I thought it is the rite of Muharram by a Shia Mullah.

Will someone throw more light on Muharram, and what is the issue about Muharram that Shia and Sunnis clash on? And does anyone know of any other religion celebrating bereavement like this?

**acharya** · 07-30-2006, 04:16 AM

About Wafa Sulten and what caused her to change,found here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wafa_Sultan

Sunder · 07-30-2006, 08:41 AM

http://www.columbian.com/news/APStories/AP...06news46756.cfm

Paki shoots six Jews, kills one and wounds five women.

SEATTLE (AP) -- A judge found probable cause to hold Naveed Afzal Haq on one count of murder and five counts of attempted murder and set bail at $50 million in King County District Court Saturday in the fatal shootings a day earlier at a Jewish charity in downtown Seattle.

Haq entered the courtroom wearing handcuffs, chains and leg shackles, and a white jail jumpsuit that labeled him an "ultra security inmate."
.......
In a statement, the Islamic Center of the Tri-Cities offered condolences to the shooting victims and said "we disassociate this act from our Islamic teachings and beliefs."

.......
Haq's parents, originally from Lahore, Pakistan, are devastated and unable to understand how their son strayed so far from Islamic teachings, he said.

"I couldn't find in any religious book any justification for such heinous acts," he said. "It has no place in Islam."

The five wounded women were hospitalized at Harborview Medical Center, police said.

Three of the wounded women, who had been shot in the abdomen, were upgraded from critical to serious condition Saturday morning, hospital spokeswoman Susan Gregg-Hanson said.

Two others were in satisfactory condition: a 37-year-old woman, five months pregnant, who had been shot in the forearm; and another woman who was shot in the knee, Gregg-Hanson said.

QUOTEhttp://skepticsannotatedbible.com/Quran/int/long.html

08-03-2006, 05:59 AM

Movie on radical islam and war against west.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=...3278181614

08-07-2006, 10:23 AM

A Middle Eastern Connection?
BOMBS ON GERMAN TRAINS
A leak from the investigation into a pair of unexploded bombs found on trains in Germany this week has produced a strange detail -- a bag printed in Arabic. German officials won't confirm anything, but the case has ignited a national debate about rail security.

08-07-2006, 10:27 AM

India Bans Arab TV Channels Under Pressure From Israel <img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='laugh.gif' />
QUOTESeveral senior Indian journalists explained that the ban was an indication that India had succumbed to Israeli pressure rather than American. <!--emo& Big Grin

--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' />

âThe whole exercise is to browbeat Arabs and show them as terrorists. The government is subscribing to the absurd argument that channels like Al-Jazeera and Al-Arabiya promote hatred and encourage terrorism,â they said.Â <!--emo& Big Grin

--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' />

Political analysts in India described the move as a game of double standard that India is playing. On the one hand India establishes friendship with the Arab world while simultaneously it joins with Israel and the US in defaming them. It seems that the pro-Israeli lobby wishes to drive a wedge between India and its time-tested Arab allies. The Indian governmentâs present stance is in stark contrast to the late Mrs. Indira Gandhiâs staunch support of the Palestinian cause.

Husky · (This post was last modified: 08-08-2006, 06:28 PM by Husky.)

The following is not so much about Islamism as it is about Islam itself.

Hit-and-run member "akbarkhan" in his post Was The Mughal Rule All That Bad?, Some objectivity please wrote many inane remarks that (we're supposed to imagine) pass as arguments and 'analysis'. I want to take up but one of these statements (though they are all equally nonsense), to show how the faithful are guided by a unique ethics all of their own (Islam). His statement:
QUOTEAccusation#5: Women were raped mercilessly.
Response: In the 21st century, in a developed USA, women are going through this merciless punishment. So why single out something that happend in the medieval times, when even so-called modern, progressive people are much worse?
This post is to show how Islam treats Muslim women today. Then the Free (non-ChristoIslamist) World can have a better indication as to how cruelly the 'infidel' women of India, Persia,... were treated in medieval times by the Muslim tyrants.
Some of the following articles are bound to be infuriating to all the IF men - and women - of Dharmic (and Zoroastrian) ways of life. It is bad enough for us to see injustice done to people who are capable of defending themselves, but it is another matter entirely to see women and children in the Islamic world which accords them no rights, be horrendously abused and punished. And to top it all off, it's through no fault of their own.
I make use of but a few articles of recent years, there are an infinite number of such cases.

Islam despises women - a world-wide pandemic
Honour killings: amongst Muslims in Iran, Palestine, Jordan, Pakistan, and Muslim (Turkish and Kurdish) immigrants to Germany and UK
Shows that this is not a 'Medieval' thing at all, but intrinsic to Islam. We already know how Muslim women in Islamic Afghanistan are treated.
(1) IranQUOTEIran to hang teenage girl attacked by rapists
An Iranian court has sentenced a teenage rape victim to death by hanging after she weepingly confessed that she had unintentionally killed a man who had tried to rape both her and her niece.
Nazanin, who was 17 years old at the time of the incident... described how the three men pushed her and her 16-year-old niece Somayeh onto the ground and tried to rape them, and said that she took out a knife from her pocket and stabbed one of the men in the hand.

As the girls tried to escape, the men once again attacked them, and at this point, Nazanin said, she stabbed one of the men in the chest. The teenage girl, however, broke down in tears in court as she explained that she had no intention of killing the man but was merely defending herself and her younger niece from rape, the report said.

Last week, a court in the city of Rasht, northern Iran, sentenced Delara Darabi to death by hanging charged with murder when she was 17 years old. Darabi has denied the charges.

In August 2004, Iranâs Islamic penal system sentenced a 16-year-old girl, Atefeh Rajabi, to death after a sham trial, in which she was accused of committing âacts incompatible with chastityâ.
That's three young women (girls - children - actually) in Iran who have been reported in the news. (The same story is also reported in http://www.news24.com/News24/World/News/0,...1859493,00.html and http://www.faithfreedom.org/Announcement/601081013.htm)
And here's the Islamic take on this - the Middle East Times' article on the same:
QUOTEIran to hang woman who killed in 'self-defense'
January 8, 2006

TEHRAN -- An 18-year-old Iranian woman who killed a man that she said tried to rape her has been sentenced to death for murder, according to a press report on Saturday. Note how the Middle East Times reports the same matter with a callousness typical of Islam: it does not believe the accused woman at all. That's because in Islam, the witness of a woman is half that of a man. No one cares whether it's true or not. If a woman is raped in Islam, she is tainted and deserves to die and go to Jekinnah.

And another two cases of young Iranians here:QUOTE13 year old schoolgirl sentenced to death by stoning
Sat. 16 Oct 2004
Tehran, Oct. 16 - A 13-year-old schoolgirl has been sentenced to stoning in the town of Marivan (northwestern Iran). Zhila Izadi was condemned to death by stoning after giving birth to a child in prison 2 weeks ago.

She was accused of committing âmoral sinâ and giving birth to an âunholy childâ. Her brother a 15-year-old boy who was also accused and is currently in prison in Tehran was given a sentence of 150 lashes, in accordance with Islamic laws.

On Aug. 29 the Judiciary sentenced a woman, named Hajieh Esmaeel, to death by stoning in Iranian port city of Jolfa. Her fate remains unknown.The blog at http://talkleft.com/new_archives/008354.html shows how Zhila Izadi's case is, as usual, one of incestuous rape (rather common in Muslim families, see Palestine below):
QUOTEIran to Stone 13 Year Old Incest Victim
Jila was raped and impregnated by her brother and Iran's clerical judge has sentenced her to death by stoning. According to the Iranian regime's penal code, stoning is the punishment for those who commit adultery. Jila did not commit adultery; rather she is a victim of rape.Note that in Islam, in practise, rape is seen and treated as adultery. Islam uniquely punishes rape victims though, whereas in adultery cases both involved people are supposed to be punished.
There are many such cases going unreported. Iran is full of them, due to Islam.
(Compare this to how highly regarded women were under Iran's former Zoroastrian religion: MSNBC - Woman warrior found in Iranian tomb and Archaeological Evidence backs Literary Evidences: Iranian Women Warriors in Ancient Iran)

Husky · (This post was last modified: 08-08-2006, 10:25 AM by Husky.)

(2) Palestine:
QUOTEAnother "honor" victim: Daughter, raped by brothers, killed by mother
Nov 21, 2003 - Knight Ridder Newspapers
ABU QASH, West Bank - Rofayda Qaoud - raped by her brothers and impregnated - refused to commit suicide, her mother recalls, even after she bought the unwed teenager a razor with which to slit her wrists. So Amira Abu Hanhan Qaoud says she did what she believes any good Palestinian parent would: restored her family's "honor" through murder.
Killing her sixth-born child took 20 minutes, Qaoud tells a visitor through a stream of tears and cigarettes that she smokes in rapid succession. "She killed me before I killed her," says the 43-year-old mother of nine. "I had to protect my children. This is the only way I could protect my family's honor."
The guilty brothers are in jail.
Qaoud's confessed crime, for which she must appear before a three-judge panel on Dec. 3, is one repeated almost weekly among Palestinians living in the West Bank, Gaza Strip and Israel. Female virtue and virginity define a family's reputation in Arab cultures, so it's women who are punished if that reputation is perceived as sullied.The above story is also discussed at Culture of death? Palestinian girl's murder highlights growing number of 'honor killings'
Apparently the faithful rapist brothers are only in jail. Their sister, who had done nothing, was punished with murder instead. Islam is a breeding ground for this disaster: with its doctrinal injunctions segregating men and women, it makes animals of men - who will never really be punished anyway - and makes women highly vulnerable, paying with their lives for the violations committed by others.

(3) Jordan:QUOTEFresh 'honour killing' in Jordan
Three brothers hacked their two sisters to death in Jordan in an "honour killing", one day after parliament rejected tougher sentences for such crime, officials are quoted as saying.Â
The 27-year-old left her family home nearly two years ago to marry a man without her family's consent, the paper says. Her 20-year-old sister ran away three months ago to join her. Tipped on their whereabouts, the brothers went to their home with axes, and hacked their sisters to death, the paper says.
"It was a brutal scene. One victim's head was nearly cut clean off," an official is quoted as saying.
The older sister's 10-month-old baby and her husband escaped unharmed, according to the report.
The killings bring to 12 the number of women reported killed for reasons of "family honour" in Jordan this year, the Jordan Times says.
Under the existing law, people found guilty of committing honour killings often receive sentences as light as six months in prison. Muslim women though they marry Muslim men, as long as they marry without consent (and in Pakistan the background or 'caste' of the Islamic couple has to be the same), are targets for honour killings. And honour killing crimes are apparently not deserving of real punishment, though the women who married for true affection are.

Husky · (This post was last modified: 08-08-2006, 10:58 AM by Husky.)

(4) Pakistan:
QUOTEPakistani tells how he killed 4 daughters
The laborer, 40, says he took their lives to save his family's 'honor'
Associated Press Dec. 28, 2005

Nazir Ahmed, 40, who killed his three young daughters and their adult stepsister, is processed in police detention in Gago Mandi near Multan, Pakistan. : AP

MULTAN, PAKISTAN - Nazir Ahmed appears calm and unrepentant as he recounts how he slit the throats of his three young daughters and their 25-year old stepsister to salvage his family's "honor" â a crime that shocked some in Pakistan. The 40-year old laborer, speaking to the Associated Press in police detention as he was being shifted to prison, said he had only one regret â that he didn't kill the stepsister's alleged lover too.

Hundreds of girls and women are killed by male relatives each year in this conservative Islamic nation, and rights groups said Wednesday such "honor killings" will only stop when authorities get serious about punishing perpetrators.
QUOTEPakistani teen recovering after cousins shot her in attempted 'honor killing'
Associated Press
May. 2, 2006 07:20 AM
KARACHI, Pakistan - Suffering from five bullet wounds, Noor Jehan calls out in pain for her mother. The 14-year old Pakistani girl is recuperating slowly in a hospital from a brutal attack allegedly carried out by two male cousins to avenge a rebuffed marriage proposal.

Honor killings claim hundreds of lives each year in this conservative Muslim nation.
Another example of Islamic society punishing women for unrelated events:QUOTEMore arrests in Pakistan gang rape
Police in Pakistan have confirmed that two more men have been arrested in the case of a woman who was gang raped on the orders of a tribal assembly in the province of Punjab. ... Tribal elders are accused of ordering the woman to be gang-raped to punish her family over allegations that her brother had had illicit relations with a woman of a different social status."Different social status" - a kind of 'caste' isn't it? So much for 'egalitarian' Islam.

Husky · (This post was last modified: 08-08-2006, 01:21 PM by Husky.)

(5) The case of the Kurdish Muslim immigrant in the UK:
QUOTEMuslim cut his daughter's throat for taking a Christian boyfriend
By Sue Clough and Sean O'Neill
(Filed: 30/09/2003)
A Kurdish Muslim murdered his 16-year-old daughter because he disapproved of her western way of life and [Lebanese] Christian boyfriend, the Old Bailey heard yesterday.Adalla Yones, 48, cut his daughter Heshu's throat and left her to bleed to death. He had subjected her to months of beatings before killing her in a frenzied knife attack. Police believe that Yones had been physically abusing Heshu for months beforehand. She had not reported the attacks but referred to them in a two-page "runaway" letter found after her death.A different paper continues on the same story, :QUOTE'Honour killing' father begins sentence
Heshu, who was described as popular and fun-loving, planned to run away from home after starting a relationship with an 18-year-old Lebanese teacher. In a letter to her parents, apparently showing she planned to run away, Heshu wrote: "Bye Dad, sorry I was so much trouble. "Me and you will probably never understand each other, but I'm sorry I wasn't what you wanted, but there's some things you can't change."Hey, for an older man you have a good strong punch and kick. "I hope you enjoyed testing your strength on me, it was fun being on the receiving end. Well done."After having murdered his daughter by blindly following his insane religion, he then apparently regained his humanity and realised what he had done. So he attempted to kill himself. When caught by the authorities, he asked for the death sentence (unfortunately he can't ease his pain this way, there is no death sentence in the UK).

(6) Turkish (and other Muslim) immigrants in Germany:
QUOTETHE DEATH OF A MUSLIM WOMAN

"The Whore Lived Like a German"
By Jody K. Biehl in Berlin

In the past four months, six Muslim women living in Berlin have been brutally murdered by family members. Their crime? Trying to break free and live Western lifestyles. Within their communities, the killers are revered as heroes for preserving their family dignity. How can such a horrific and shockingly archaic practice be flourishing in the heart of Europe? The deaths have sparked momentary outrage, but will they change the grim reality for Muslim women?
...not the victim of random violence, but likely died at the hands of her own family in what is known as an "honor killing." I could go on and on producing recent news articles on this tiny topic, but I think the point has been illustrated sufficiently.

That's right, this is not a problem of the 'Indian subcontinent', or of Muslims 'straying' from their religion, or one of 'medieval barbarity'.
It is the Islamic religion that has made these societies so hateful of their women (and female children). It's a pan-Islamic phenomenon.
Iran, for instance, is an Islamic theocracy, and the executions of their bright and brilliant women is happening very much at the behest of the Islamic theocrats who pronounce their sentences based on Koranic injunctions. As many Iranian websites detail, Iranian women whenever caught protesting against the ruthless Islamic rule, are put into prison before being executed. In jail, the guards assault them, because according to Islam, a virgin who dies goes to Islamic Pardees (heaven). And of course the loyal Muslim guards want these women to go to Jekinnah (hell).
Islam makes the faithful kill their own children and sisters. They lose all their innate humanity - subordinated as it becomes to their all-controlling religion, which stifles conscience.
That is why the post 'Was The Mughal Rule All That Bad?, Some objectivity please' by Faithful Akbar Khan is full of the same convoluted ethics that has always guided ChristoIslamis.

Here's some other information on this religion that continues to be famously advertised as being respectful of women:
Female Genital Mutilation in Iraqi Kurdistan

People of the Dharmic, Zoroastrian and other natural religions, not being subject to ChristoIslamism, would do well to bear in mind that Islam's treatment of women is the treatment, not of a minority, but of ~50% of the human population. (That said, the suicide rate among Afghanistan's women is among the highest in the world, as is their mortality rate due to complications in unassisted child birth - so I suspect the women are dwindling there like they will be in every Islamic country where the Shariat is implemented.) Perhaps we have to suppose that it's because women don't constitute a minority that our pro-minorityism p-secs don't come running up in support of women's rights in Islamic lands.

For myself, I'd like to break all the bones of those ChristoIslamists who've harmed and continue to harm the Indian, Pakistani, Afghan, Iranian, African, Palestinian, Jordanian, Kurdish, Turkish,... women and children. I don't know how Dharmic such a wish is, but unlike ChristoIslamism, my conscience is not subject to the dictates of any religion. (Having said that, it is to be noted that Natural Religions do not press conduct-issues anyway: they strongly suggest for the good of all; they don't command with threats of hell-fire.)

08-08-2006, 04:30 PM

QUOTE(Husky)That said, the suicide rate among Afghanistan's women is among the highest in the world, as is their mortality rate due to complications in unassisted child birth - so I suspect the women are dwindling there like they will be in every Islamic country where the Shariat is implemented

Perhaves that is the reason why Musalmans are so eager to grab a heathen woman at the sligtest oppertunity.

08-09-2006, 05:55 AM

http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadA...le.asp?ID=23695
Rehabbing Islamic Extremists 
By Paul Sperry
FrontPageMagazine.com | August 7, 2006

ramana · 08-10-2006, 11:52 PM

X-Posted from BR

ramana
QUOTEActually blaming Islam for this modern or 'nouveau' radicalization is not correct. This radicalization is an evolutionary end product which can be traced to the melding of political Islam with Hegelian bye-products ofÂ Marxism and Fascism. This is beyond WahabismÂ which still separted the ulema from the Sultan and did not call for overthrow of the rulers. That strain has come from the French revolution. This line of thinking has matured in India which did not have Muslim rulers for over two hundred years after the fall of the Mughals in the 1700s and can be traced to Syed Ahmed to Maduddi.
I would like to term the new Islamism as Maduddiism but to account for the global phenomenon it is more apt to call it Qutbism as the dogma was developed and spread in the Middle East by the Egyptian Qutb through the Muslim Brotherhood.
So what the world is facing is Qutbism and not just Islamism.
A whack moment!

and
ramana
QUOTEKhomeinism affected only Iran and Shias while the other two affected the Sunnis who are a majority. So Khomeinism is a minor problem and should not confuse the issues.

In fact I can see a pattern similar to the French Revolution and the containment of Khomeinism- the early revolution against the Shah by the disaffected Iranis, the hijacking of the movement by Khomeini supporters, the mass executions and purges by the Khomeini supporters, the fear of spreading the revolution to other Islamic lands, the Iraq war, the eventual defeat of Iran disguised as a peace agreement, the stabilization of the Khomeini revolution in Iran, the rising of a dictator/despot Ahmedinejad. All these are signs of end of history type of course of events. So Fukuyama is right after all only he didint subject it to the right analysis. If this true then Iran is on a path to modernization if the threat to Islam is reduced. Napoleon made the revloution palatable for Catholic France by making his ecclestial concord with Pope Pius. Unfortunately Iran has no leader who can do that yet.

Acharya
QUOTEFinally you have connected all of them.

How do you explain what is happening in Kashmir

My reply

QUOTEAll religions did have their exclusivist moorings. The problem at hand is due to the ideological transformations due to the Hegeleian bye-products and has to be recognized as such. By bringinng the roots one will manage to rally the moderates around the hard core with the Islam khatrey mai hain. I am trying to isolate the oil drops and soak them up from the mix.
--------------

The origins of the Kashmir movement are in the revolts against the Maharaja in the 1930s which had broad based support from the Kashmiri Muslims, Pandits etc. This movement become an exclusive domain of Sheikh Abdulla and when he failed ot deliver the promise of liberalism the movement got hijacked by pan Islamism.

In fact I read a report by Madhu Limaye to JL Nehru, published in Ind Express in the 1980s, where he did not want GOI to support the NC folks as they were Communists who were out to get a revolution going in Kashmir. There are anecdotal reprots in British novels of the Kashmir movement being a red movement.

Now was AlQ created to bring about a revolution in Sunni lands?

08-11-2006, 01:02 AM

QUOTENow was AlQ created to bring about a revolution in Sunni lands? 
Balouch freedom movement is 100% red movement, supported by not only Iran but all type red sundry groups.

QUOTENow was AlQ created to bring about a revolution in Sunni lands?
AIQ is accidental. Lower level managers failed to understand Paki army agenda. Foot soldiers were pump with false warrior label in 80's. After getting loot as a country, they became greedy and out of control.

Why suddenly Bukhari started reminding Hindus about 800 years of rule?
Commie and socialist (congress) are behind.

08-11-2006, 02:06 AM

QUOTEUnderstand the jihadi mindset 
Pioneer.com
Hari Jaisingh
What is the link between Kashmir, Iraq, Chechnya, Afghanistan and West Asia? Well, acts of terrorism, though the extremist postures on these issues give wrong signals on what Islam stands for. The reasons for these trouble spots vary. All the same, Islam and Islamic extremism cannot be viewed through a fixed angularity as British Prime Minister Tony Blair did the other day while speaking at the World Affairs Council in Los Angeles.

The problem with most Western leaders is that they are yet to fully understand the nature, range and dimension of Islam, Islamic extremism and terrorism, though they too have had the bitter taste of Osama bin Laden-inspired and prompted bomb blasts. The Saudi fugitive has provided an extra extremist thrust to the teachings of Islam, beyond its concept of compassion, brotherhood and other humane elements. 

This terror face of Islamic extremism has revived some old controversies discussed in Samuel P Huntington's "Clash of Civilisations". Herein lies the biggest challenge to the very idea of globalisation and silken threads of love, harmony, togetherness, secularism, tolerance, understanding, peaceful co-existence irrespective of caste, community, religion and creed.

Global thinkers and leaders have failed to provide proper answers to innumerable Islamic aberrations. True, there cannot be one set of formula to deal with terror activities in different parts of the world. Each conflict area requires proper understanding and accordingly fanatics have to be dealt with.

Each problem has its own roots. History is full of such instances. But those in power hardly learn from history. No wonder Mr Blair's theory on Islamic extremism and terrorism has some loopholes. This is obvious from the way he has linked the Jammu & Kashmir dispute with the problems in Iraq, Afghanistan and West Asia - all of which he has dubbed as part of an over-arching "arch of (Muslim) extremism" across the globe.

The likes of Osama bin Laden are surely building an arch of Islamic extremism the world over. But it is absurd to link the Kashmir issue with other areas of turmoil. Flashpoints in Lebanon, Gaza, Iraq, Afghanistan, Iran etc are vastly different from the Kashmir problem, though terrorism has now acquired a sinister global dimension.

All the same, it would be too simplistic to suggest that terrorism has become "a global fight about global values" and that it is "about modernisation within Islam and outside of it". Well, in the fight against terrorism where are global values? Do British and American authorities care for them? In any case, distorted Western thinking and responses cannot be put under the label of high-sounding "global values".

Look at the track-record of Britain and America on Kashmir or West Asia? Do their policies and postures stand the test of civilised global values? On Kashmir, both London and Washington have invariably shown tilts in favour of the dictatorial military regime of Islamabad rather than for value-based democratic India? They have, of late, tried to somewhat correct their tilts, but this does not wash their acts of omission and commission on Kashmir.

Let me recall some historical facts. First, Kashmir has been part of the Indian civilisation from time immemorial. Second, India cannot hand over the Kashmir Valley to Pakistan simply because it has a sizeable Muslim population there. That way the number of Muslims in India is more than in Pakistan.

Third, till the advent of Islam, Kashmir was a flourishing centre of culture. Huen Tsang, a Chinese traveller, recorded in AD 631 that the people of the Valley loved learning and were highly cultured. In the 11th century, Al Beruni observed that the land was "the high school of Hindu science". 

Fourth, by the 13th century, Islam made a considerable impact throughout North India. Even large numbers of Kashmiris accepted Islam under the influence of Sufi saints. The synthesis of Arabic and Persian cultures produced a new order of Sufis called "Rishis" who had a powerful influence on the minds and the way of life of Kashmiris. They preached religions tolerance - a far cry from what we hear from the new exponents of Islam.

Fifth, it is no use talking about the ifs and buts of history. If Kashmir has become a problem, it is because most Indian leaders chose to live in a make-believe world. They made a mess of accession and referendum. Jawaharlal Nehru bungled on ceasefire in the face of the tribal raids, unleashed by Pakistan in October 1947.

Sixth, much before Osama bin Laden the seeds of terrorism in Kashmir were sown by General Zia-ul-Haq. "Operation Topac" was conceived by him in 1983. Thereafter, arms started flowing into Punjab and into Kashmir in 1986. This proxy war game shamelessly played by Islamabad continues even amidst peace talks and confidence-building measures. We know what damage fanatics can do - a poignant example is Afghanistan.

Seventh, the "armed struggle" being waged in the name of Kashmiris has very little to do with their fate and future since Islamabad's sole objective is to snatch Kashmir from India. It is an open aggression. Here let me quote American expert on terrorism Yossef Bodansky: "Through the ISI manipulations, Islamabad has transformed the Kashmir struggle into a drive for Kashmir's unification with Pakistan and away from the quest for Kashmiri self-determination and independence from India and Pakistan."

Eighth, apart from the havoc caused by terrorists, certain critical happenings in Kashmir are also a poor reflection on Indian leaders' policy and politics towards the minorities. They also reflect poorly on our governance and leadership. Our leaders either remain mute or compromise on crucial matters in the hope that time would resolve the problem. But time does not resolve such problems. Only political will can. But Indian leaders do not learn from history.

They have failed to draw lessons even from the 1993 Mumbai blasts. No wonder, the right strategy to fight against the jihad sponsored by Pakistan is nowhere in sight. They have also failed to mobilise liberal Muslims to take on the "enemies" within. Our own failures to understand the mindset of Pakistani Generals and their sponsors of cross-border terrorism and communal conflicts are no less glaring. 

Misplaced appeasement, vote-bank politics, missing stress on modern education, job avenues, good living conditions and the absence of vision for a new India have only made matters worse.

**acharya** · 08-11-2006, 02:50 AM

Now was AlQ created to bring about a revolution in Sunni lands?

Rebuilding the greater middle east requires change in regime and a new socil order.
After all the different ism- communism, arab nationalism etc they can rely on the islamism/jehadism.

This requires global vision and leadership quality. They may have been training the AlQ leadership for that role to topple the Gulf regime in the name of protecting it from Americans.
Has the plan changed/. We dont know yet after 911. But the goal remains.

ramana · 08-11-2006, 03:09 AM

Mudy, TSP created Taliban US facilitated AlQ as part of Afghan War on FSU. Hence my question.

**acharya** · 08-11-2006, 10:02 AM

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7...mic+india&hl=en

Husky · (This post was last modified: 08-11-2006, 01:24 PM by Husky.)

This seems more appropriate here, but it is in relation to post 52 (Hauma) of the Sanatana Dharma thread
QUOTEEgypt: With the end of Hosni Mubarak, it is quite possible that the seething masses of Egypt stage an Islamic revolution centered on one of the root sources of Islamic indoctrination -- the university in Cairo.Maybe half a year ago, I watched a '60 minutes' type documentary here on how in Egypt, women working in the media were not all allowed to wear the Hijab, how fundamentalist Islamic schools were discouraged, and other forms of 'repression'. The Egyptian government and their progressive forces are very much afraid of fundamentalist Islam taking over their country. The ones in charge are Muslim not secular, they just don't want their nation to turn into Afghanistan or Iran.

However, the programme itself tried to project this as the plight of the oppressed 'good Muslims' in Egypt. Islam is not oppressed in Egypt. Women are allowed to wear the hijab, men are allowed to study the Koran - their government merely wants to ensure that fundamentalism doesn't become the driving form of Islam in their country. Obviously their fears are well-founded if the University of Cairo keeps churning out jhadis.

I wonder what the people who made the documentary are playing at. Do they want Egypt taken over and run down like Iran was by madman Khomeini? I also wonder why the programme showed such blatant support for the extremist side, and why it was a showcase of one-sided reporting.

QUOTESafavid, central Asian Uzbek Khanate Very ironic that all these peoples who revived Islamic 'expansion' were non-Arabian people whose pre-Islamic cultures were partly added to the notion of what's now considered 'Islamic civilisation'.

From the sound of things, the Khanate consisted of Turkic shamanists who'd been converted to Islam. Khan is a Turkic shamanist religious title - it is one of their most deeply religious names. All Muslims of the Indian subcontinent who bear this surname should realise they have a kaffir surname (perhaps it's indicative of some Turkic shamanist ancestry too).
From The Gods of the Turks:
QUOTEWe read on the monument honouring Bilge-Khagan: "After the death of my father, at the will of Turkic Tengri and sacred Turkic Yer-Sub (Earth-Water), I became Khan... Tengri who gives the states (to Khans), made me Khagan, it should be known, so that the name and glory of the Turkish people would not disappear." In the monument honouring Kul-Tegin, we read: "Tengri, who rules my father, Ilterish-Khagan, and my mother, Ilbilgya-Katun, from above, ennobled them... As Tengri gave them strength, the army of Khagan, my father, was like a wolf and his enemies like sheep."1 On the 8-9th century stone carvings, found on the banks of the Orkhon and Tola rivers, in Altai and in Tuva, the Turkic Khans-Batyrs (mighty Heroes) left to their descendants these words: "â¦ For the Turkic people I did not sleep nights and days, did not rest... Let not the Turkic people vanish! Let not the name and glory of the Turkic people perish!"
After a Khagan ascended to the throne, he was referred to as a son of Tengri, for it was Tengri who had given the Khagan to his people and it was He that punished those who turned against their ruler, "... instructing the Khagan, who attends to state and military affairs."2 A man became Khagan, and lived under Tengri's protection only for as long as he himself lived by Tengri's laws. During the election of a Khagan, the Beks felt that Tengri Himself had determined the outcome. A legitimate Khan was therefore looked upon as "Tengri-like... begotten by Tengri... a wise Turkic Khagan". A Khagan (Khan) should be brave, clever, honourable, vigorous, fair, and have the virtues of a Bozkurt (wolf). With these qualities, a Khagan could unify Turkic tribes into a single nation...Shah-rukh Khan seems to have a doubly unfortunate name, when considered from an Islamic perspective. Shah-rukh means Shah's son, I think, and Shah is a late Zoroastrian title for ruler. It's like how Rukh-shah-na ('Roxanne', name of Bactrian wife of Alexander) means princess.

Husky · (This post was last modified: 08-11-2006, 02:00 PM by Husky.)

Starting paragraphs of
Islamic era history of Zoroastrians of Iran through political analysis and historical letters:
QUOTEThe Arab invasion of Iran in 630 A.D. and its consequences have never been researched impartially, because they always carry religious sentiments. It is taught and popularized that the Arabs brought Islam to Iran, and the Iranians being frustrated by their government, the strict religious code interfering with their daily life and the established Sasanian's caste system embraced Islam's message of equality and brotherhood. This view however is not only far from the historical evidences but contradicts the basic human instincts. The fact is that people on the whole do not give up their original tenets and traditions easily to adhere to the new one. Even the primitive Arabs did not abandon their old religion that simple, as there were several religious wars (Ghazvah) in which many of the nonbelievers were massacred. The Arab conquest not only did not eliminate the caste system, but soon Iranians found themselves part of the two new castes, slaves and Mavali. The mass of Iranian women, children and captured men were sold in the Arabian markets and even those who converted to Islam did not receive freedom. They were called Mavali or the liberated slaves, who were mostly deprived of basic rights, could not ride horses or carry weapons and at times being part of the asset were given away as gifts. The mass enslavement of Iranians was so rampant that in a story that Shiites made to relate the family of Imam Ali to the Sasanians, even the daughter of Yazdgard, Shahrbanou was sold as slave in Medina market to Imam Ali who gave her to his son, Imam Hussain to marry. By this narrative the Shiites believe that Imam Hussein's descendants are blood related to the Sasanians.

The cultural calamity was disastrous. Books were burned, scholars slain and schools and libraries were destroyed because the invaders regarded the Koran as the last book that nullified the existing ones. Iran in a short period of time fell from a global power and world's center of science to an illiterate and backward country that could never stand on her feet. For centuries afterwards until the time of Safavid dynasty at the turn of the fifteenth century it was not even a country under one flag.
The above is apparently the first installment in a series of articles on the Zoroastrian Genocide (by Islam):
QUOTEIslamic era histroy of Zoroastrians of Iran through political analysis and historical letters
Jahanian, Dr. Daryoush
The systematic genocide of Zoroastrians in post-Islamic Iran has been amongst the most tragic events in human history. Yet, this great tragedy is not as well known to the world public. This well researched document gives an overview of 13 centuries of systematic genocide of a proud people -- a legacy of Islamic conquest of Iran.Our p-secs and history-reinventors will still have Indians believe that Islam means 'peace' and was spread in India and elsewhere through peaceful means.

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