<!--QuoteBegin-sankara+Aug 29 2006, 05:06 PM-->QUOTE(sankara @ Aug 29 2006, 05:06 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->The documentary at http://video.yahoo.com/video/play?vid=3c...c92.703761 is indeed very painful to watch. This documentary needs to be viewed by as many Indians (Hindus) as possible, and by even non-christians in other countries who are fighting christianity's efforts to obliterate their culture and belief system, to create greater awareness on the conversion agenda of these missionaries (pretending to be social workers) and the tactics used by them to convert poor and innocent Indians. While watching this documentary, each time the missionary dunks a poor hindu into the water to baptise him to christianity, one has a very strong and ruthless urge to haul this missionary and dunk HIM in the water, and HOLD him there until eternity. It's not to counter-baptise the guy, but to count one less missionary in the world!
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I have bee out of India since last 22 years. When I was there I was involved in social works.At that time the same discussions was going on for the same problem.Nobody was touching the heart of the problem but giving a big apperent views against the activities.How the external forces atteck your society?? Why they are successful to enter your social pattern??And what is the fastest reactive force and source against it?? India is comprise of two social blocks.Urban and Rural.Educated and Uneducated.
Historically India was agressed by two external cultures Islam and Christian.The last atteck left some cultural impacts on society which are more active towards
their numral strength.It is human tendency that where ever they get vital support they lean towards that source.The real problem in India is poverty,Illiteracy and last but not the least our own neglegence of our own people and their requirements.We don't provide them food,drug,education and better living which the agressing culture does organised way.We as Hindu are not Organised.The time's demand is Organisation.Even today we don't have missionary force as they have.Missionaries bring 15% of Fundings from abroad and use 85% of Indian revenue to grow their impact.In other words they use Indian revenue against Indian society under the Political leaders.The hunger needs food ,the seak needs drug and neglected needs care.Do we provide every Indian these fundamental requirements justicefully as their human right??The religious and social leaders have to think twice before aligating others that did they provide dignified living to the needy?!!
<b>Tantri case: Court declines Sobha John's bail</b><!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->
A local court on Tuesday refused bail to Sobha John, the first accused in the 'Sabarimala Tantri Attack Case'.
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<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->
http://www.deccanhe rald.com/ deccanherald/ aug62006/ district17163320 0685.asp
*Conversions: TTD
*Convenor of the Shimoga branch of 'Tirumala Tirupati Protection Committee'
T V Ramachandra has said that there is no doubt that conversion activities are going on in Tirupati Tirumala temple. Convenor of the Shimoga branch of 'Tirumala Tirupati Protection Committee' T V Ramachandra has said that there is no doubt that conversion activities are going on in Tirupati Tirumala temple.
He has dismissed the statements given by the TTD management and Endowment minister of Andhra Pradesh as "far from truth".
Addressing a press conference here on Friday Mr Ramachandra said that out of eight hills in Tirupati five are being used to this kind of illegal activities.
According to the law no activities relating to any other religion other than Hindu religion can take place in 250 square kilo meter areas of seven hills. However in 220 square kilo metre areas of five hills are being used to distribute hand bill and books on Christianity, he alleged.
Garlanding of Lord Venkateshwara picture in Venkateshwara University in Tirupati has been stopped. Photographs of Hindu Gods have been removed from Padmavathi Women's University. The Vice Chancellor has kept a photograph of Jesus Christ on his table, Mr Ramachandra alleged.
He also said that Christians have been appointed to discharge temple duties, in violation of the temple norms. Mr Ramachandra alleged that Special Officer of TTD Dharma Reddy is behind all these illegal activities. He said an agitation would be launched under the leadership of Pejawar swamiji against all such attempts.
President of the Committee Rangaswamy, Vice President Shivaswamy and, Convenors Deendayal and Channabasappa were present.
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08-31-2006, 03:38 AM
(This post was last modified: 08-31-2006, 03:42 AM by Bodhi.)
<span style='color:red'>Highest Number of Jesuits anwhere in the world are in India !!!</span>
The Jesuits - who form an order in the Catholic Church, officially called the Society of Jesus - are a community of "Fathers" (who have been ordained priest) and "Brothers" (who are not ordained).
How Many Jesuits Are There?
Felix Raj, SJ
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->According to a recent Jesuit Documentation, No. 81, published from Rome, as of January 2001, there were 21,063 Jesuits in the world - 14,852 priests, 3,997 scholastics, and 2,311 Brothers. The net loss from January 2000 is 320 members. Between January 2000 and January 2001, 500 men entered the Society of Jesus, 479 died and 339 left the order. While the relative numbers of entrances and departures is consistent with the trend of the last few years, the number of deaths is higher.
The highest number of Jesuits in their 460-year history was in 1965 with 36,038 members, 20,301 Priests, 9,865 Scholastics and 5,872 Brothers.
The overall decline in number from 1965 to 2001 is 41%, of which the share of the brothers is 16.9%, scholastics' is 16.4% and priests' 7.7%. In the last 35 years, the overall fall of brothers is 60.6%, scholastics is 59.5% and priests 14.7%.
The Jesuit Headquarters is situated in Rome: Curia Society of Jesus, Borgo S. Spirito, 4 â 00193 ROMA, Italy. Superior General: Most Rev. Fr. Peter-Hans Kolvenbagh, SJ.
<b>NUMBER OF JESUITS IN THE WORLD - 2001(Region-wise)</b>
                Africa.......................................     1296
                America Latin (Merid)............    1685
                America Latin (Sept)...............    1588
                Asia (Merid)............................    3889
                Asia (Orient)............................    1633
                Europa Centr...........................    1037
                Europa Merid..........................    2904
                Europa Occid...........................    2266
                Europa orient...........................    1215
          USA..........................................    3549 Â
                Total (2001).............................   21,063
<b>IN THE WORLD (YEAR WISE)</b>
                    1960................................... 34687
                    1965................................... 36038
                    1970................................... 32898
                    1975................................... 28856
                    1980................................... 27053
                    1985................................... 25549
                    1990................................... 24421
                    1995................................... 22869
                    2000................................... 21354
<b>Jesuits in India</b>
<span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%'>The Indian Assistancy has the highest number with 3,851 Jesuits (18%), followed by USA with 3,635 (17%)</span>. Of the 3,851 Jesuits in India, 2,174 are priests, 1,363 scholastics in training and 314 brothers. The ratio of priests/scholastics in India is 1.60. There are 17 Provinces and 3 independent Regions in the South Asian Assistancy. Madurai Province has the highest number with 495 Jesuits, followed by Patna with 376. Karnataka Province has the highest number of scholastics - 146, followed by Patna with 128. <span style='color:red'>Bihar is the most blessed State for Jesuits. There are five Jesuit Provinces with 1,265 Jesuits, one-third of all Jesuits working in India.</span><!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
08-31-2006, 11:18 PM
(This post was last modified: 08-31-2006, 11:21 PM by Shambhu.)
Happy 1st Anniversary IF!!
A friend of my friend's sister-in-law's co-worker reported this conversation between a missionary and a Hindu. <b>Admin. please move this overheard conversation wherever it fits:</b>
Miss: My son, save yourself with the light of Christ.
Hindu: Good for you, but no thank you.
Miss: My son, what does your "god" promise you? Does he grant you everlasting life?
Hindu: Sir, our God is different from the concept of God you have.
Miss: I see. Concept. So you will be "re-incarnated", is it not? Is that not your "concept"?
Hindu: Sir, what you think is "you" does not get re-incarnated. You say this is "my mind, my body, my soul". All those possessions of the "me" do not get re-incarnated. But that which calls itself "me" starts identifying with a different set of "possessions". The "me" never dies, nor was it born. It just changes clothes. That is my understanding, Sir, and I am quite happy with it.
Miss: All that is so much philosophy, my son! Come to the simple religion, the true religion. Christ will save you..
Hindu: Sir, my Lord Shri Krishna has said that he I will come to him if I pray to him. I do not need Christ.
Miss: (smirking) But all this "Krishna" stuff is myth, mumbo-jumbo...our Jesus Christ walked on water, raised the dead..
Hindu: There is a lot of proof for all our dieties, Sir. Krishna is an incarnation of God. And we have had hundreds of people in India over the ages that walked on water, raised the dead, travelled in space...
Miss: (smiling and shaking his head) But these are all superstitions, young man. You look like an educated person. Do you really believe all that superstitious talk?
Hindu: I see. So what my relatives, ancestors, and friends have seen over the years is all superstition, but what a bunch of white guys saw 2000 years ago is The Truth?
Miss: Now, now, lets not get too passionate! You are taught be quite violent, are you not? I have read your "Bhagwad Gita"..
Hindu: Sir, the battle in there is about a kingdom. A Hindu was cheated out of his kingdom by another Hindu. No religious slaughter, no anti-infidel wars, no ethnic cleansing. Just a "fight for your right" kind of thing. And that too after all other channels had been exhausted...
Miss: Son, "Just War" is a Christian concept. Do not covet what is not yours! Tut-tut!
Hindu: (laughing) Well, at least we Hindus invented the time-machine, then. To go back and put all these Abrahamic concepts into our scriptures millenia after they had been compiled.
Miss: I see. And who "compiled" all those hindu scriptures? Are they not revealed? Just "compiled"? Hmmm..
Hindu: Sir, revelations to thousands of holy men have been compiled. (smiling) Only, they are not "revelations" because they do not "revealed" to white people. No?
Miss: Why do you keep on bringing race into the discussion? Christianity is for everybody!! God loves each and every living thing!
Hindu: I have not seen any brown Jesus Christ statues, Sir. Not even a Mother Mary. Or a Mother Teresa...Follow the white man, that seems to be the message.
Miss: Son, we do have lots of preachers that look just like you..brown..
Hindu: And who pays them?
Miss: (Shaking his head) Son, which one is your god? Ramaaa? Krishnaa? Shivaa? Who?
Hindu: Sir, Ishwar is one. Have you heard of and Hindu talking about more than one Ishwar? The forms of Ishwar are many. Water poured in different cups takes on different forms, but its still water, is it not?
Miss: This is getting neither of us anywhere..You are not very repectful of Christianity, are you?
Hindu: Sir, whenever I attempt to defend myself from unsolicited condescension, they say "You are insulting other religions! Hindoooo fundamentalist!!" I love jokes, Sir. But I still have to hear a better joke than that one.
Bye bye then!
09-01-2006, 08:06 AM
(This post was last modified: 09-01-2006, 08:13 AM by acharya.)
09-03-2006, 05:19 PM
(This post was last modified: 09-03-2006, 05:51 PM by Husky.)
This does not have any direct connection with Christian missionary activity in India, but I could find no other place to put it. It's really bizarre, but because it's true it's the most hilarious thing I've read so far today:
http://dir.salon.com/story/news/feature/20...moon/index.html
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin--><b>Hail to the Moon king</b>
<b>The deeply weird coronation of Rev. Sun Myung Moon in a Senate office building -- crown, robes, the works -- is no longer one of Washington's best-kept secrets.</b>
By John Gorenfeld
Pages 1 2 3June 21, 2004 | You probably imagine your congressman hard at work in the Capitol debating legislation, making laws -- you know, governing. But your newspaper probably didn't tell you that one night in March, members of Congress hosted a crowning ritual for an ex-convict and multibillionaire who dressed up in maroon robes and declared himself the Second Coming.
<b>On March 23, the Dirksen Senate Office Building was the scene of a coronation ceremony for Rev. Sun Myung Moon, owner of the conservative Washington Times newspaper and UPI wire service, who was given a bejeweled crown by Rep. Danny K. Davis, D-Ill. </b>Afterward, Moon told his bipartisan audience of Washington power players he would save everyone on Earth as he had saved the souls of Hitler and Stalin -- the murderous dictators had been born again through him, he said. In a vision, Moon said the reformed Hitler and Stalin vouched for him, calling him "none other than humanity's Savior, Messiah, Returning Lord and True Parent."
To many observers, this bizarre scene would have looked like the apocalypse as depicted in "Left Behind" novels. Moon, 84, the benefactor of conservative foundations like the American Family Coalition -- who served time in the 1980s for tax fraud and conspiracy to obstruct justice -- has views somewhere to the right of the Taliban's Mullah Omar. Moon preaches that gays are "dung-eating dogs," Jews brought on the Holocaust by betraying Jesus, and the U.S. Constitution should be scrapped in favor of a system he calls "Godism" -- with him in charge. The man crowned "King of Peace" by congressmen once said, according to sermons reprinted in his church's Unification News: "Suppose I were to hit you with the baseball bat to stop you, bloodying your ear and breaking a bone or two, yet still you insisted on doing more work for Father."
What, exactly, drew at least a dozen members of Congress to Moon's coronation? (By the Unification Church's estimate, 81 congressmen attended, although that number is probably high.) The event was the grand finale of Moon's coast-to-coast "tear down the cross" Moonification tour, intended to remove Christian crosses from almost 300 churches in poor neighborhoods -- the idea being that the cross was an obstacle to uniting religions under Moon. Yet the Dirksen ceremony was sold as a celebration of world peace. According to a cheery promotional video released by Moon's International and Interreligious Federation for World Peace, the ceremony marked the dawn of "the era of the Eternal Peace Kingdom, one global family under God." Moon's coronation also cured God's pain, the announcer explains.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
More on the insane coronation in the Senate:
http://www.politics1.com/blog-0604a.htm#crown1
http://www.politics1.com/blog-0604a.htm#crown2
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin--><b>MOON SHOT.</b> It seems the Moonies are bit annoyed with John Gorenfeld, me, and a few others who successfully pressured the mainstream media to finally report on Reverend Sun Myung Moon's bizarre messianic cult coronation on Capitol Hill ... and all the Congressional excuses that followed. In their press release, a Moon spokesman complained that, in "contrast to the efforts and integrity of much of the mainstream media, the momentum for this 'story' was provided by independent 'journalists' and 'blog' writers who have made no effort to contact the event organizers for a balanced presentation of both sides of the story." By the way, no US Senator has yet stepped forward to admit they were the one who reserved the Senate reception room for the Moonies (but, by elimination, Senator Lindsey Graham appears to be the most likely culprit).
Likewise, we've learned more about the appalling role played by Congressman Roscoe Bartlett (R-MD). A week ago, his press spokesperson said that Bartlett "received the Ambassadors for Peace Award from the Washington Times Foundation for his work in Congress, and attended part of the banquet ... this was the sum total of his participation." <b>ABC News has now learned that Bartlett was the one who carried Moon's imperial robes up to the platform for the crowning ceremony.</b> Bartlett now explains that he's seen lots of people crowned King or Queen at proms, 4-H festivals, etc., so he didn't think there was anything odd about his helping to crown convicted felon and declared "Messiah and Returned Lord" Moon as the world <b>"King of Peace" (a Biblical term of significance, noted Gorenfeld)</b>.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin--><b>SPINNING MOON. </b>For the past two days, we've been reporting on the bizarre coronation ceremony held in a US Senate office building in which Congressman Danny Davis helped place a golden crown upon the head of billionaire Korean "Unification Church" cult leader and convicted tax felon Sun Myung Moon after Moon proclaimed himself "humanity's Savior, Messiah, Returning Lord and True Parent." Don't believe me? Then click here and read Moon's speech, as posted on his own website. Several other Members of Congress also participated in or were listed as hosts of the evening's festivities. Well, as expected, the elected officials involved in the event are now offering various excuses and explanations for attending the event sponsored by the Interreligious and International Federation for World Peace (IIFWP). Many claim they did not know the Moonie nature of the group or that they did not know the event would evolve into a messianic coronation. While the latter excuse may be plausible (for all except Davis), a simple visit to the IIFWP website rebuts the former claim by clearly and repeatedly stating that Moon founded and directs the IIFWP. But -- as you've seen our story and photos -- and can view the Moonie videos of the event online here (English - short version) and here (Windows Media Player, in Korean, long version) ... and now you can read how the other side and those involved are spinning this: <!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin--><b>DARK SIDE OF THE MOON.</b> On Wednesday we reported on a largely ignored story -- investigated in depth by journalist John Gorenfeld -- about Congressman Danny Davis (D-IL) having participated recently in a bizarre DC event featuring purported Korean cult leader Sun Myung Moon. Moon -- the leader of the Korean-based Unification Church cult, a convicted felon, and owner of the Washington Times newspaper and the UPI press service -- was previously involved in the "Koreagate" Congressional scandal in the late 1970s. We mentioned yesterday how Davis wore white gloves, read Moon's "Crown of Glory" poem, and carried a golden crown that was placed on Moon's head after <b>Moon proclaimed himself the "Messiah", the "King of Peace" and "Returning Lord." </b>The crowning relates to Moon's push over the past year to urge Christian churches to remove crosses from their walls and replace them with a crown -- honoring the King of Kings (which, of course, he says is himself). Now, if you thought that was bad ... well, keep reading because it gets much worse!
<b>The huge event was held in the Dirksen Senate Office Building -- a US government building -- on Capitol Hill. Not only were there Congressional Co-Chairs of the event (Congressmen Danny Davis, Curt Weldon, Roscoe Bartlett, Sanford Bishop and Chris Cannon), others played roles that evening.</b> US Senator Lindsey Graham, NRCC Chair Tom Davis and Congressman Phil Crane served on the Host Committee, as did noted GOP political consultant Charlie Black. Weldon -- who had his staff initially deny he even attended, then claimed he possibly popped in briefly on his way to a meeting -- actually delivered the official "congratulatory remarks" welcoming the guests. Weldon, however, seems to have a good reason to fear exposure of how closely tied he is to Moon. On June 19, 2003, the Congressional Record shows that Davis introduced remarks on behalf of himself and Weldon for last year's Amassadors of Peace Award ceremony held in the Rayburn House Office Building.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
And there's a site about this embarassing event too, by the journalist John Gorenfeld mentioned above, sarcastically named:
http://www.iapprovethismessiah.com/
<b>Where in Washington D.C., is Rev Moon?</b>
Either (1) the congressmen really think he's the second coming or (2) they're all hoping to get some of Moon's billions. I hope it's #2, although I won't rule out #1.
Links to videos and photos of the event are available at http://www.politics1.com/blog-0604a.htm#crown2
In the utter ridiculousness of the above, one can forget the following. <b>Notes to remember:</b>
Rev Sun Myung Moon, head of the 'Korean Unification Church' is a billionaire and a friend of that the evangelist Pat Robertson.
(1) He owns the Washington Times newspaper
(2) Was crowned in America's Senate office building in 2004, in front of many congressmen. Very embarassing indeed
(3) He thinks he's the second coming of Christ. He is very much a Christian, though the first article (Salon Magazine) does not make that clear. It states that he had 300 crosses taken off churches, as if to unify all religions under him.
However, his official website at www.unification.net contains many pages all about Christo doctrine. http://www.unification.net/leesanghun/lcah/ for instance is a page on lucifer/satan and mentions Jesus, 'the Fall' (Adam, Eve, apple, snake story), etc.
The god that Moon speaks of is no other than the Christo one.
At best, Christos can only distance themselves from him by claiming he's created a new Christian cult (like the Catholics did long ago, and the Protestants did later, and the many sub-Protestants did immediately thereafter, and the Mormons did recently). Personally, he reminds me of characters like Benny Hinn.
(4) Like a typical Christo, he hates Jews and gays.
(5) The wrongly named <i>Interreligious and International Federation for World Peace</i> (Universal Peace Federation) is owned by him.
Also in CBS news:
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->(CBS/AP) More than a dozen U.S. lawmakers turned out for a Capitol Hill reception honoring the Rev. Sun Myung Moon, the controversial leader of the Unification Church.
Some of the lawmakers later said they were duped when questioned about their presence at the event held at the Dirksen Senate Office Building on March 23.
The Washington Post reported that Moon received a crown that was placed on his head. The crown was carried on a pillow by Rep. Danny K. Davis, D-Ill., who wore white gloves, the newspaper said. [Details of the reception were first reported by Salon.com.] <!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->I can't stop laughing.
Deception, Inculturation & Conversions - Elderly Targeted
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->The Siddhi Shaligram Briddhashram (Home for the Elderly) lies 4.8 kilometers northeast of the heart of the city, surrounded by the Pashupatinath Hindu temple grounds. ( The templeâa World Heritage Site--is a famous pilgrimage for Hindu pilgrims from around the world, but also an abode for frolicking monkeys and sadhu santas with tangled hairs who come from across the Indian subcontinent.)
<b>The Briddhashram houses some 180 destitute Nepali elders. Founded by Mother Theresaâs Missionaries of Charity, the order still supports some sisters who, along with intermittent volunteers, operate one wing there.</b><!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Meet on church history ends
Special Correspondent
HYDERABAD: The historical aspects of Catholic, Protestant, Orthodox and Independent church movements in the State were discussed at a two-day Andhra Pradesh regional Church History Conference held at Andhra Christian Theological College. It concluded on Sunday.
The conference was moderated by Jetti A .Oliver, Chairman, Church History Association of Andhra Pradesh, and attended by 40 delegates, comprising professors of theological seminaries, heads of churches and inter-denominational leaders.
It was noted that 10,000 publications relating to church movement and its services in the fields of health, education and social services were available in the State Archives, according to a press release here.
HUMANS BEING DEVELOPED AS LABORATORY SPECIMENS
http://worldmap.org/maps/prepared/churchst.../india_ispd.jpg
http://www.worldmap.org/country.php?ROG3=IN
http://www.worldmap.org/region.php?region=South%20Asia
http://www.worldmap.org/
http://www.joshuaproject.net/assets/AdiKarnataka.pdf
http://www.joshuaproject.net/index.php
http://www.joshuaproject.net/globalstatistics.php
⢠India has the largest number of ethnic people groups, 2,327 in the Joshua Project database. (The number of people groups in India varies greatly depending on the researcher and how the term "people group" is defined. Strictly linguistically there are about 330 - 350 "people groups" in India. Some suggest the 2,327 groups in the Joshua Project list should be sub-divided into groups by Indian state, producing a total of about 4,700). For further information, see the ethno-linguistic vs. ethnic discussion on the definitions page.
⢠There are four Hindu majority countries, of which three (India-$459, Nepal-$239, Guyana-$936) have GDP per capita less than $1,000 (1,100,000,000 individuals). None of the Hindu countries are identified as Developed.
Project Overview:
Making a Missionary Atlas
You are at the site of the World Missions Atlas Project.
This site contains various forms of information including maps, tabular data sets, and written descriptions. The information is helpful in assessing the current status of Missions progress throughout the world. It is a constantly expanding site that seeks to produce a strategically significant World Missions Atlas.
The WorldMAP consortium is comprised of Evangelical organizations. Collectively we use the following definition of "Evangelical" for the purposes of this project.
An Evangelical is a Christian that generally affirms:
1. The Lord Jesus Christ as the sole source of salvation through faith in Him.
2. Personal faith and conversion with regeneration by the Holy Spirit.
3. A recognition of the Word of God as the only basis for faith and Christian living.
4. And a commitment to biblical preaching and evangelism that brings others to faith in Christ.
The Churches In Habitat information projected and displayed herein utilizes data from several sources. Generally, it is our policy to depict the churches as Evangelical based on the judgment of field researchers that have shared their data with us. In some instances, the church data will include groupings not usually associated with the Evangelical tradition. Where that is found to be the case, one will need to take this into consideration before drawing final conclusions regarding Christian strength, deployment needs, or strategic initiatives.
Hurry! Jesus on free trial
<!--emo&:roll--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/ROTFL.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='ROTFL.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Missionary: Have you heard of Jesus?
Me: Yes
Missionary: He has a message for you.
Me: What?
Missionary: Read and follow Bible, you will be in Heaven for ever!
Me: Well I would love to know more about Christianity, but to start with â what happens if I donât believe in Jesus?
Missionary: Believe me son, Jesus will show you the right path. In our everyday life, we commit so many sins that only Jesus can save us all from eternal Hell.
Me: At the philosophy level Sir, I would like to know why someone should go to hell?
Missionary: Because we all make mistakes son. Jesus has given his life-blood to save us all from the suffering that we could face. All you need to do is believe in Him.
Me: If I make a mistake I will face the punishment. What else is a
better way of purifying oneself?
Missionary: Trust in Jesus and you will go to heaven.
Me: You are saying that I can make mistakes, trust Jesus and go to heaven?
No I donât think so. I prefer rebirth to face the punishment.
Missionary: Hmmmâ¦. Do you know why Jesus faced the cross?
Me: I know, Jesus has already suffered for all our sins.
Missionary: So you have to believe in Jesus. He will take care of your
Sins.
Me: No, I donât want to trouble Jesus! I will take responsibilities myself.
Missionary: He has already suffered for our sins, you see?
Me: Then why should I worry? I can make mistakes/sins.
Missionary: No, thatâs not good for the world. And then, you have to 'believe' in Jesus, if your sins should be absolved!!!
Me: What were people doing before Jesus was born?
Missionary: They felt God in their Heart.
Me: That means that there is a way other than Jesus. I too feel in my
heart the presence of God! I follow my religion and feel God within.
Missionary: See ... I am showing you an easy way of getting satisfaction in life and beyond.
Me: Sometime back, you said Jesus is the "only" way. Also your "easy way" seems too easy to give any serious answers to philosophical questions.
You have self contradictions. Western philosophers other than the church have done excellent work. Seriously, I think you should go through them. After that you can actually visit eastern philosophies.
Me: Give me those books you have⦠I read all religions anyway. Thanks!
Probing a little deeper, I have actually had such conversations as follows:
=================================================
Missionary: Read and follow Bible, you will be in Heaven for ever!
Me: What happens if I read the Quran or the gIta?
Missionary: Well, they can take you some distance, but only Jesus can show you the right path.
Me: Have you read the gIta or the Quran? Because I have gone through them, though not as a research. And I have gone thru' the bible too.
Missionary: Well Sir, if you want to discuss in detail, you are welcome
to talk to my senior in the Church on Sunday. He can give you a
comparitive idea.
-----
Missionary: Jesus has already suffered for our sins, you see?
Me: Then why should I worry? I can make mistakes/sins.
Missionary: You have to 'believe' in Jesus!!!
Me: You know, I am sure Jesus will take care of me, even if I don't
believe him. Otherwise, he ends up with an ego problem, rt? You have
incomplete information about Jesus.
-----
Me: According to Christianity, there is one life after which you either go to heaven or hell right?
Missionary: Yeah.
Me: But suppose I was born to a prostitute and a goon. And I always had
company which was not the refined-class. Suppose throughout my life I
never heard of Jesus. I made a lot of mistakes. Will I go to hell or
will I get a better chance?
Missionary: No there is only one life.
Me: Your religion sounds funny to me and unjust.
Missionary: Jesus will see to it that you get to know Him.
Me: Then what are 'you' doing here?
Missionary: Jesus is finding you thru' me.
Me: Aww... come on now!
------
Me: Tell me Sir. How is heaven?
Missionary: It has all comforts, angels, and God is with you all the time.
Me: How come only you came to earth and suffered while the angels never did?
Missionary: See ... when we go to heaven, we become angels.
Me: Oh I see. So those angels were on earth sometime earlier, struggling like you are now?
Missionary: I think God created them to be in heaven, not come to earth. I am not sure about this concept. You can come over to the church this Sunday and talk to the father.
Me: If God created angels to be in heaven all the time, then He was partial to them right? They always enjoy in heaven, but you are created and find yourself on earth. Your concept needs refinement. You know you should question a religion critically yourself, before propagating it to others.
------
Me: Also, I am curious about animals and trees. Do they have any scope to go to heaven?
Missionary: Animals and trees are created only to serve mankind. They do not have any other purpose.
Me: What happens when they die?
Missionary: Am not sure, but I can find out for you Sir and call you back.
Can I take your phone number?
Me: Sure, ok. Also find out about children who die within days from when they are born. Do they go to heaven or hell?
Missionary: I think children go to heaven.
Me: But they neither did any good (nor bad) to go to heaven. Read about what your own religion says about this.
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Me: I also wanted details on what state you were in before you got born.
Missionary: God created us.
Me: Did you not exist before?
Missionary: No.
Me: What does God get out of creating you and this world and all other things?
Missionary: Nothing. He does not need/get anything. He only helps you out.
Me: No, no. You don't need help before you were created right?
Missionary: There are certain things that God does which we cannot understand.
Me: Do you know that there are religions in this world which have good theories for these questions? I am sure you yourself realize that your explanation is a trivial case.
Missionary: Well, itâs your faith Sir. But then, I would still say that
Jesus is the only way out.
Me: Wow, don't you want to even hear about another theory? And you expect me to actually change my religion.
Missionary: Sir I am sure my faith has all answers. And I am sure you will eventually find the truth. I would like to give you this bible that you may want to peruse. If you want to discuss anything with me or the reverend, you can approach me at this number. Thank you Sir.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
09-07-2006, 04:54 PM
(This post was last modified: 09-07-2006, 05:10 PM by dhu.)
I just checked the wikipedia entry for balagangadhara. Apparently it was deleted last year after a most stomach churning assault.
link1
link2
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin--><b>A Pluralistâs encounter with a Missionary</b>
Kalavai Venkat
July 2006
The Hindu Renaissance
Once, a Southern Baptist missionary was my co-passenger in a flight. Like every missionary out to seek a convert, he was pleasant. After learning that I am a Hindu he asked, âIs the caste system going away in India?â I quipped âWhy should it go away?â He was surprised by my response and remarked, âYou are the first Hindu who responded this way. Most Hindus agree that caste must go away and say that it is slowly going away.â
I decided to turn the tables on him. I asked him, âWhat language do the African Americans speak?â He replied, âEnglish.â I asked, âWhat did their ancestors speak 500 years ago?â He began to contemplate. I thought that I might have to wait for eternity like the Christians have waited for the second coming of their messiah before the missionary would answer, so I prompted him, âSwahili? Hausa?â He agreed, âYes.â I asked, âDo the African Americans worship the animist deities of their ancestors? Do they wed and bury per their ancestral customs?â The missionary replied, âNo.â
I said that one could replace African Americans with any immigrant group: The Dutch, the Germans, the French or the Latinos. I added, âWhat you proudly advertise as the melting pot actually imposed the language, culture, religion and customs of the dominant ethnic group on all others. On the other hand, visit even a small village in India with just 300 families. The chances are that this population would be made up of 10 different castes and each of them retains its distinct religious, wedding, funerary, culinary and dialectic features. This is because, as a truly pluralistic society, the Hindu India allowed each ethnic group, regardless of how numerically small it was, to retain its identity.â
âSo,â I added, âCaste is a result of this spirit of freedom and pluralism. It is something to be proud of. On the other hand, the so-called melting pot is actually a result of cultural, and often physical, extermination of diverse identities by one intolerant and powerful group.â
I continued to pontificate: âLike every other man made institution, caste too has been misused. Then, so has been every other man made institution like democracy or secularism. It was a democratically elected Hitler who exterminated 6 million Jews, Gypsies and mentally retarded patients. It was a democratically elected Jefferson who fixed the worth of every African American child at $ 22.50 and proposed to forcibly snatch them away from their parents and ship them back to Africa after ensuring that the adult African American population does not procreate any further. It was a democratically elected Roosevelt who declared that the extermination at the hands of the Whites was the best thing that happened to the Native Americans. Stalin and Mao were secular but they mercilessly sent millions to death camps.â
I asked him, âIs anyone demanding that democracy or secularism be abandoned because of a Jefferson, Roosevelt, Hitler, Stalin or Mao? Why should caste be abandoned just because it was misused? Hindus have systematically addressed caste inequities over the last 80 years or so. If we assume that we rid our society of all discriminations in the next 30 years, members of every caste, be it Brahmin, Kayastha, Maratha or Paraiyah could proudly say that they follow the millennia old religion, customs and dialects of their forefathers. Suppose the Christian West similarly resolves racial discriminations, could an African American, Dutch American or Latino make similar assertion?â
I pointed out that in the casteless Christian West, the minorities have been forced to abandon their identities and instead have been made to imitate the dominant group in every aspect of life such as religion, language, wedding and funeral customs. I cited the words of Nathan Katz and pointed out how Hindu pluralism, of which caste is an integral part, actually preserved minority customs. Katz, while discussing how the Jewish people flourished for centuries amidst the Hindus, writes:
"A crucial distinction between India and the rest of the Diaspora, however, is that in India acculturation is not paid for in the currency of assimilation. By acculturation I mean fitting comfortably into a society while retaining one's own identity, whereas by assimilation I mean that the loss of that identity is a perceived condition for acceptance. The study of Indian Jewish communities demonstrates that in Indian culture an immigrant group gains status precisely by maintaining its own identity. Such is the experience not only of India's Jews, but also of local Christians, Zoroastrians, and recently, Tibetan Buddhists. This striking feature of Indian civilization is reflected by each of these immigrant groups.
Now let us forget the Southern Baptist missionary and ask the Hindus: Would this preservation have been possible without the spirit of pluralism, which was ensured by the caste system? Are the Hindus going to repeat the missionary propaganda and deny the strengths of their own civilization or are they going to understand the institution of caste dispassionately? The missionary and the imperialist know that the institution of caste must be obliterated if the Hindu society were to be weakened and converted. A Hindu should critically analyze his traditions instead of uncritically absorbing propaganda.
http://www.christianaggression.org/item_di...7&type=ARTICLES<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin--><b>Evangelist drowns trying to walk on water</b>
WorldNetDaily, August 30, 2006
An evangelist who tried replicating Jesus' miracle of
walking on water has reportedly drowned off the
western coast of Africa.
Pastor Franck Kabele, 35, told his congregation he
could repeat the biblical miracle, and he attempted it
from a beach in Gabon's capital of Libreville.
"He told churchgoers he'd had a revelation that if he
had enough faith, he could walk on water like Jesus,"
an eyewitness told the Glasgow Daily Record.
"He took his congregation to the beach saying he would
walk across the Komo estuary, which takes 20 minutes
by boat. He walked into the water, which soon passed
over his head and he never came back."
The New Testament records the story of Jesus walking
on the Sea of Galilee as he approached his disciples
in a boat.
"And in the fourth watch of the night Jesus went unto
them, walking on the sea." (Matthew 14:25)
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin--><b>Dutch priest charged in Madonna threat </b>
AMSTERDAM, Netherlands - Amsterdam prosecutors said Friday a 63-year-old priest has confessed to phoning in a fake bomb threat to a Madonna concert in the Dutch capital city last week.
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Â
"He was hoping to stop her from performing her famous 'crucifixion' act," prosecution spokesman Robert Meulenbroek said, referring to a scene in the 48-year-old pop star's latest show.
The scene, a mock re-enactment of the crucifixion of Christ, offended some Christians during earlier concerts in Italy and Germany. Two Amsterdam concerts went ahead as planned on Sunday and Monday, despite a handful of protesters.
Meulenbroek said it was likely prosecutors would seek a community service punishment for the priest, since it was very likely this was his first such offense.
The priest was arrested almost immediately after making the threat Sunday, since he used his home phone to make it, and he called an emergency services number where the call was automatically traced.
The priest was brought before a judge Friday and has been released pending judgment, Meulenbroek said. "We take bomb threats seriously, but in this case it was clear very quickly that it was not real," he said.
"Maybe he should have to learn all her lyrics by heart" as punishment, he quipped.
Madonna and her entourage now move to Prague.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060908/ap_en_...erlands_madonna<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So much for christian tolerance - even the priests are willing to toss a bomb now and then.
Link: [/Tennesean
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Baptist group planning evangelical work in India
Published: Saturday, 09/09/06
Mission Trip
Who's going: About two dozen youths and adults from Jamestown First Baptist Church, Cookeville First Baptist Church and LifeWay Christian Resources.
Where are they going: Tirupati and Hyderabad, India
Date of trip: Oct. 7-19.
Why are they going: To do evangelical work in the two cities. Tirupati is known as the spiritual center of the Hindu religion, where tens of thousands of Hindu pilgrims travel to worship each year. Participants say they are going to "bring light to this beautiful land of spiritual darkness."
How much does the trip cost? The$3,200 trip is paid for by individuals and their churches. â¢
Published: Saturday, 09/09/06 <!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Pope says not to reject God for science
By DAVID McHUGH, Associated Press Writer 1 hour, 21 minutes ago
MUNICH, Germany -
Pope Benedict XVI on Sunday warned modern societies not to let faith in science and technology make them deaf to God's message, and suggested that Asia and Africa could teach the wealthier West something about faith.
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In his sermon to some 250,000 pilgrims at an open-air Mass in Munich, Benedict said modern people suffered from "hardness of hearing" when it comes to God.
"Put simply, we are no longer able to hear God â there are too many different frequencies filling our ears," he said. "What is said about God strikes us as pre-scientific, no longer suited to our age."
"People in Asia and Africa admire our scientific and technical progress, but at the same time they are frightened by a form of rationality which totally excludes God from man's vision, as if this were the highest form of reason."
Benedict, on the second day of a six-day homecoming trip to his native Bavaria, rode in his popemobile through a cheering crowd to say Mass atop a platform in a sprawling field on the outskirts of Munich, where he served as archbishop from 1977 to 1982.
People waved yellow and white
Vatican flags and blue and white Bavarian ones, while Mexican, Croatian, Slovak and Polish banners also fluttered above the crowd. Munich police spokesman Peter Reichl said the crowd numbered around 250,000.
The need for Western Europe to return to its Christian roots is one of Benedict's favorite themes, and he is repeating it during his visit to his native country â home to a shrinking and liberal Catholic Church and a highly secularized society. Over 100,000 people leave the German church every year, and only about 14 percent attend Mass on an average Sunday.
Benedict gently rebuked the German church for putting social service projects and technical assistance to the poor ahead of spreading the Christian message. African bishops, he said, told him all doors were open to them in Germany when they wanted to talk about aid projects, but added they were greeted with reservations when it came to evangelization.
"Clearly, some people have the idea that social projects should be urgently undertaken, while anything dealing with God or even the Catholic faith is of limited and lesser importance," Benedict said.
He said that faith must come first, before progress can be made in social problems, such as the
AIDS epidemic in Africa. "Hearts must be converted if progress is to be made on social issues and reconciliation is to begin, and if â for example, AIDS is to be combated by realistically facing its deeper causes."
That message is consistent with church teaching that chastity and faithfulness to one's spouse â and not condoms â are the best way to prevent the disease.
In the crowd, Johann Habla, 76, praised Benedict's touch with the young. "He reaches young people. ... If they all go to church is another matter, but perhaps something will remain," Habla said.
Gerda Holzinger, 57, said that since former
Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger became pope last year she was seeing a new side of the conservative former theology professor, who left Munich in 1982 to become the Vatican's chief doctrinal watchdog.
"Cardinal Ratzinger was for us a stubborn theologian; now he is opening up, and a completely different person is coming out," she said. "I find him good. He sticks to the old values, which have been good for 2,000 years."
On Monday, Benedict plans to make a brief visit to Marktl am Inn, the small town where he was born, and to Freising, where he was ordained a priest. He will also visit Regensburg, where he once taught theology; he still has a house in the city, and his brother Georg, a retired priest and choir director, lives there.
Police said that vandals tossed balloons filled with blue paint on Benedict's birth home in Marktl am Inn early Sunday. The damage was not serious, and Vatican spokesman the Rev. Federico Lombardi dismissed the incident as "really secondary."
It is the second visit to Germany by the pope since his election in April 2005 to replace John Paul II, but his first to Bavaria.
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