India - China: Relations And Developments

11-21-2006, 04:21 AM

<!--emo&

--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif' /> We do the talking, Chinese make money
JOJI THOMAS PHILIP

TIMES NEWS NETWORK[ TUESDAY, NOVEMBER 21, 2006 01:32:30 AM]

NEW DELHI: Indians talk a lot more on their mobile phones than the Chinese. But when it comes to making money, itâs the Chinese operators who have the last laugh.

China is also lot more labour efficient â the operators employ about 0.6m executives to manage a mobile subscriber base of 450m, while Indian operators employ around 0.4m against a base of 136m subscribers.

Consider the figures: The return on capital employed (ROCE) of mobile operators in India is three time higher than that in China. According to â05-06 figures, the Chinese service providersâ ROCE was 22.87%. Compared to this, the Indian operatorsâ ROCE was just 7.42%. This is despite the fact that Indiaâs capital employed per subscriber is lower ($147) than Chinaâs ($152).

The Chinese operators enjoy a higher ROCE because they spend much less on a subscriber every month. Their operating expenditure per month is $4.73/month per subscriber compared to $5.49 in India. Again, a comparison of the EBITDA margins reveal Chinese companies generate higher rate of returns at 49.85%, which is 18.52% higher than that of the Indian telecom companies.

Despite the scorching pace of mobile additions in India, the capital employed by operators for expansion and upgradation in â06 cannot be compared with China which is projected to make investments of $23bn in â06, while Indian operatorsâ commitments during the same period is only $6bn.

Indiaâs focus on cellular telephony has come largely at the cost of a flat growth in fixedlines, while China has been registering impressive growth rates in landlines too.

The dragon country has 360m landlines, compared to 47m in India. Besides, the segment is growing double digits in China, while back home, the annual growth is less than 2%. Besides, landline connections are available in 97% of villages in China against 89% in India. The Chinese also win hands down when it comes to broadband users. They have nearly 10 times more users than that of India and continues to add 7 times more subscribers on a monthly basis. While China scores on all financial parameters, when it comes to customer experience, subscribers in India have reason to cheer.

With the country offering the lowest tariffs in the world, its customers use their phones a lot more. The average minutes of usage per month in India is 393 and 470 for GSM and CDMA respectively, compared to Chinaâs 300 (GSM) and 277 (CDMA).

Not surprisingly then, the average monthly mobile bill per subscriber in India is an estimated 50% lower than his/her counterpart in China.

**shamu** · 11-21-2006, 10:44 AM

QUOTE(Capt Manmohan Kumar @ Nov 21 2006, 04:21 AM)<!--emo& Sad

--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif' /> We do the talking, Chinese make money


It's again a stupid DDM twist <img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/thumbsdownsmileyanim.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='thumbsdownsmileyanim.gif' /> . It is actually a good thing, Captain saab. It proves the fact that India is able to provide much cheaper service than govt. subsidized chinese companies, blowing up the myth that China is cheaper. <!--emo& Big Grin

--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' />

**shamu** · 11-21-2006, 11:08 AM

QUOTE(Ravish @ Nov 20 2006, 08:39 PM)ashyam please check the historical facts.Certain parts of China had common border with India. The 54 thousand sq miles of terroritory in Askai Chin is claimed by us but now under control of China.

What stupid logic is this, Ravish? China did not have a border with India till they conquered Tibet, it is as simple as that. The Aksai Chin went to Chinese control after they conquered Tibet, which gave China a border with India. If there were a buffer state called Tibet, Aksai Chin would never have gone to China.

QUOTEThis is one such part of the border.Historically, Tibet has always been a vessel state of China. 

Could you please explain what a 'vessel' state is? Could you please give me few analogies of other such 'vessel' states? What are the limitations of these 'vessel' states? Didn't they have freedom to decide their own border even if they were 'vessel' of another country? Why didn't China protest when the agreement was signed?

QUOTEThe treaty with Tibet was signed by the Imperial British Administration after the subjugation of Tibet by a British Expeditionary Force. Do u expect the British were generous enough to sign on the dotted lines put forward by a defeated Tibet.

Wikipedia says... (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tibet)
QUOTEIn the Anglo-Chinese Convention of 1906 which confirmed the Anglo-Tibetan Treaty of 1904, Britain agreed "not to annex Tibetan territory or to interfere in the administration of Tibet" while China engaged "not to permit any other foreign State to interfere with the territory or internal administration of Tibet" 

This means that China agreed to the agreement between Tibet and British India. What China is doing now is to create a reason for future invasion of India or to force India to let China keep Aksai Chin permanently. If you take Chinese logic, which you seem to accept blindly, India can renounce all agreements British made in India, including creation of Pakistan, Durand line, Radcliff line and can reclaim many of their parts which is useful for India (very useful one is Chittagong hills in Bangladesh and of course PoK).

Yes, India should renegotiate its Tibetan border, but with an Independent Tibet and not with its conqueror. Based on your logic, if Tibet becomes independent tomorrow, the Govt. of India can negate all agreements signed with current China and demand to redraw the border saying that China forced the border at the point of gun/war. A stupid logic to go by.

QUOTEIn fact it was signed after Tibet had become a protectorate of British India.Check the historical facts and then we may continue with this discussion.

Let me see your historical facts, if you have any?

Bodhi · (This post was last modified: 11-21-2006, 08:51 PM by Bodhi.)

'Aksai Chin': China and international media have always tried to pass this off with a Chinese sounding name. Historically the region had been knows as 'Akshay Chinha' (='Infallible Sign').

11-21-2006, 10:08 PM

QUOTE'China has a plan to contain India by using Pakistan'
http://www.dnaindia.com/report.asp?NewsID=1065193
HONG KONG: The political and strategic calculations that underlie Chinaâs approach to the border talks with India are not always easy to discern.

But a recent commentary in Ta Kung Pao, the oldest Chinese-language newspaper in China, widely regarded as a mouthpiece of the Chinese Communist Party, gives insights into Chinese leadersâ minds, highlights a âTaiwan factorâ in Chinaâs calculus, and provides a chilling blueprint of Chinaâs contingency plans to use Pakistan to âpin downâ India in the event of hostilities. The commentary, by Deng Qingbo, also accuses India of being âinsincereâ in the matter of demarcating the Sino-Indian border, and provides a rationale to explain why the Chinese side now prefers to put the border talks with India âon the backburnerâ. 

It notes that in a historical sense, the disintegration of the Soviet Union eased the security strain on Chinaâs northern borders, and provided an opportunity to âactively push for the solution of border issues on the western and northern frontiersâ. Settling these border disputes is important because it would then enable China to focus its energy on dealing with Taiwan.

China claims territorial sovereignty over Taiwan, but the pro-independence movement on the island has in recent years been testing the limits of the mainland governmentâs patience.

If the Taiwanese ruling party declares independence, Chinese forces will be required to move decisively against it; in that context, to avoid being tied down on two frontiers, China senses a strategic advantage in settling the dispute with India.

But China now suspects that Indian negotiators have read its mind â in particular, its keenness to settle the border dispute speedily â and are trying to use the situation to their advantage. âIndia wants to take advantage of this opportunityâ¦ but its intention of occupying more areas will failâ¦ If India feels it can take advantage of Chinaâs psychology andâ¦ force China to accept Indiaâs continued occupation of prosperous regions in order to ease its border pressureâ¦ to promote its social and economic developmentâ¦ it is wishful thinking,â cautions Deng. 

But the commentary noted that the disputed area with India was nearly twice as large as Taiwan.

âIf China sacrifices large chunks of territory in exchange for strategic superiority in the Taiwan region, obviously it is not worth it.â Under these circumstances, it noted, China may give priority to the settlement of the Taiwan issue, and then resolve the Sino-Indian border issue. In other words, the border talks with India will be put on the backburner. 

The commentary notes that ânationalist sentimentsâ in both countries were high, and it was difficult for either side to make concessions.

âIndia has its own weaknesses and can be pinned downâ by Pakistan, which is Chinaâs âall-weatherâ strategic ally. âIn case India takes advantage of Chinaâs situation and tries to harm it, Pakistan can also initiate an attack on India in the same manner,â the commentary noted. China, it said, must not be unduly worried that it might be obstructed by India when it is resolving the Taiwan issue

11-22-2006, 10:47 PM

Dalai Lama should accept Tibet is part of China: HuQUOTELeader of Opposition LK Advani urged Chinese President Hu Jintao to allow the exiled Tibetan spiritual head Dalai Lama to visit Tibet to explore the possibility of a dialogue to resolve "the aspirations of the Tibetan people".

To which, Hu told Advani that, for any forward movement on the issue, the Dalai Lama would have to accept publicly that Tibet is an integral part of China.

Advani is the first Indian leader in recent times to raise the issue of the Dalai Lama with the Chinese leader. He raised the issue during his 20-minute meeting with the visiting Chinese leader, pointing to the fact that, for five decades, a large number of Tibetans were living in India as refugees.
...............
Advani did not make direct reference to the Chinese envoy's remark on Arunachal Pradesh being part of China. But he told Hu that, despite the positive attitude of China and India to resolve the border issue while expanding ties in other areas, "some public statements caused surprise and reaction." Hu did not respond.
...............

Earlier, Advani had conveyed his intention to raise the issue of the Dalai Lama with the External Affairs Ministry before he called on Hu. He said, as an Opposition leader he was in a position to convey certain things to the visiting head, which the government might not wish to do so at an official level.

Advani was, however, given to understand that, unofficially too, India had sought to impress on China to have a dialogue with the Dalai Lama to resolve the issue.

This tells Moron Singh government intentions. He can now set up another committee.
India should push for Tibet freedom in every forum.

11-23-2006, 01:10 AM

QUOTEHu raps Indian Left 
Pioner News Service | New Delhi
...tells them to get real
Chinese President Hu Jintao had a piece of advice for the Indian Communists: Be pragmatic.

With China embracing the market economy, Hu told a delegation of Left leaders who came to call on him to adopt a "more pragmatic" approach in this era of globalisation that provides immense scope for economic prosperity.Â

Globalisation provides scope for economic prosperity, and a "more pragmatic and positive approach" must be adopted by the Left to develop infrastructure and the economy, he said.

Sources said that both CPI(M) general secretary Prakash Karat and his CPI counterpart AB Bardhan told Hu they would be interested to know about the Chinese reforms and the methods they were applying in agricultural sector to increase production.

Hu's plain speaking is unlikely to please the Left leaders who have belligerently opposed the reform process in India and forced the UPA Government to virtually drop disinvestment from the agenda of governance.

The delegation - consisted of Karat, CPI(M) Polit Bureau member Sitaram Yechury, Bardhan, senior leader Sudhakar Reddy and Forward Bloc leaders Debabrata Biswas and G Devrajan.

In his meeting with the Left leaders, the Chinese President also expected that the overwhelming Left influence on the UPA Government would help give more focus on priority areas of ties between the two countries.
Hu, who is also the general secretary of the Communist Party of China (CPC), told the Left leaders about his expectations on the issue of both bilateral trade and areas where Chinese interests are not taken care of due to old inhibitions.

Sources said that the Chinese leader expressed satisfaction over the inclusion of initiatives on the India-China Joint Civil Nuclear deal in the joint declaration. The Left leaders who had raised a hue and cry over the India-US Civil Nuclear deal, interpreted this as a clear victory.

Incidentally, the Left leaders have been putting pressure on the UPA Government for taking a more liberal view on the proposed Chinese investment in certain sensitive areas despite serious reservation by the Defence and Home Ministries.

The Indian Left leaders proposed that there should be more exchange of ideas and interaction between the Indian Left parties and the Communist Party of China (CPC). 
Traitors had a field day.

11-23-2006, 11:14 AM

Hu's Mumbai visit: Tibetan youth attempts self-immolationQUOTEThe man and six other Tibetan youths drove up to the hotel in two taxis, jumped out and began chanting slogans against China's occupation of Tibet. He then doused his pants with a liquid and set them on fire, according to an Associated Press photographer at the scene.

Several policemen quickly jumped on the man, rolled him on the ground and doused the flames.

Police took all seven men away.

Mumbai police commissioner AN Roy said the activist was not seriously wounded. "Doctors are monitoring his condition," Roy said.
...............

Most Tibetans say China has attempted to destroy Tibetan Buddhist culture by flooding Tibet with China's ethnic Han majority. The protesters have singled out Hu, who governed the Tibetan region between 1988 and 1992, saying he had adopted a repressive stance toward the regionÂ

Naresh · (This post was last modified: 11-27-2006, 05:07 AM by Naresh.)

[center] <img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/clap.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='clap.gif' />The Asian age : Dr Ayesha Siddiqa[/center]

In India, Hu spoke about Beijingâs desire to befriend India and find an amicable solution to resolve their bilateral disputes. Hu also offered India bilateral cooperation in the field of civil nuclear energy, which is a major step in reducing the overall tension between the two countries

It is after ages that Islamabad was decorated with such fervor to receive a foreign dignitary. The main roads were lit up at night and the garbage cleaned, all to welcome the Chinese President, Hu Jintao. The gracious welcome signified the importance of Chinaâs friendship for Pakistan.

Islamabadâs relationship with Beijing has remained reasonably steady since the early 1960s, especially in terms of the supply of conventional and non-conventional military technology. In the past seven years, Islamabad has also generously welcomed Chinese investment in Pakistan and made room for Chinese companies to exploit Pakistanâs real estate, agricultural, industrial and other resources. The guarantees given to the Chinese government and companies â for investing in underdeveloped areas such as Gwadar, and in the agricultural and corporate sectors â have often come at the cost of leaving the local entrepreneurs and the landless peasants vulnerable. Neither sector is happy with Chinese goods being dumped in Pakistanâs markets or with the concept of corporate farming.

Islamabad has resisted local pressure because it feels that it has to provide a market to keep China attracted to Pakistan. Since money makes the mare go, Beijing would not ignore a potential market for its goods and services. Economic progress is a top priority for Beijing, especially after the fundamental change in its policy in 1979. Pakistan and China are also significant partners in the defence sector and the Pakistani military has been a major recipient of Chinese weapons and production technology.

Even during President Huâs visit to Pakistan, both countries have signed various agreements to boost trade and to carry out joint development and production of weapon systems. An additional benefit to China of partnering Pakistan in the defence sector is that Islamabad has generously shared its technical experience and know-how to help China improve its weapons designs. The JF-17 Thunder project, which was gradually built on the old F-7 aircraft design, is one of the many examples of cooperation between the two.

However, President Huâs visit is significant in more than what it puts on Pakistanâs table. This is a trip which essentially defines the new parameters of Asian geo-politics. This new paradigm allows the two giants of Asia, India and China, to re-structure their relations and base it on mutual economic considerations. The underlying motivation is to allow economic realities to determine the course of geo-politics rather than the other way around. This is fundamentally different from the historical US-USSR Cold War framework in which political-ideological orientation determined economic and social realities.

Prior to his visit to Pakistan, Hu was in India and spoke about Beijingâs desire to befriend New Delhi and find amicable means to resolve their bilateral disputes. Hu also offered India bilateral cooperation in the field of civil nuclear energy, which is a major step in reducing the overall tension between the two countries. For China the over-riding reality is economics. Since New Delhi is planning to embark upon an ambitious plan to develop its civil nuclear sector through building a large number of reactors, this creates a market too important for China to ignore.

There are other mutual benefits as well, such as the possibility of a South-South transfer of technology in the future and fewer problems for India in getting approval from the Nuclear Suppliers Group (NSG) once the case of India-US civil-nuclear agreement is put on the table. Since China cannot endlessly delay the India-US nuclear deal, it makes sense for it to benefit politically by reducing the tension between itself and India. The Chinese offer would certainly take the wind out of the idea that by offering technology to New Delhi, Washington would be able to build India as a strategic partner against China. The relations can be redefined in Chinaâs favour. If the relations between the two bigger Asian neighbours improve, there is always the possibility of Beijing benefiting from Indiaâs technological prowess in constructing larger civilian nuclear reactors.

In offering India cooperation in the nuclear field, Beijing seems to have recognised future developments in the region. A number of Western countries including the US and European states are seeking out India as a potential hub of technological and economic development. Partnering with India is considered beneficial for national economies. For Instance, the nuclear cooperation between India and the US would not only strengthen India technologically, but will also provide a market for the almost dead civil nuclear industry in the US which has not constructed new reactors in years. China, of course, sees itself benefiting from the windfall of Indiaâs development. Besides the nuclear programme, Chinese companies are also competing for contracts for developing numerous new seaports in India.

A possible cooperation between India and China will also change the dynamics of Asian politics, or even global politics. While the two Asian neighbours will compete with each other in claiming their share of politico-military prowess in Asia, there will be lesser chances of conflict. Perhaps, war will become redundant but not necessarily military and economic competition.

The development in India-China relations does not make Pakistan insignificant. In fact, the Hu Jintaoâs visit to Pakistan and a commitment to increase trade and sign other agreements is an indicator that Beijing wants to have Islamabad on board in terms of re-defining Asian geo-politics. But what Islamabad is expected to do is to reassess its priorities and its lager geo-political game plan. Pakistan will have to re-prioritise its strategic road map and look at bilateral relations with its bigger neighbours and its internal policies in terms of the economic dividends which lie in store for it. It will, perhaps, also have to abandon its obsession with equality with other bigger and more significant regional states. Indubitably, Pakistan is equal in terms of its sovereignty, but this particular term must not be confused with military, political and economic parity, which is a totally different ballgame.

Although, President Hu said he was committed to playing a âconstructiveâ role in negotiating peace between India and Pakistan, there are no signs that Beijing has the clout or will have the influence on New Delhi, even in the future, to help the two South Asian neighbours discuss a territorial solution of Kashmir. Also, in case of growing economic cooperation between Beijing and New Delhi, China will be less inclined to take on India on the issue of Kashmir. Greater economic cooperation between India and China will actually mean that Beijing will not be willing to push New Delhi on issues which hamper their bilateral economic equation. After all, both countries have also agreed to increase their bilateral trade and China will be Indiaâs biggest trade partner after the US.

Asian politics at large is being re-structured. One of the manifestations of easing of tension and improvement of relations between India and China is likely to create a centre of political gravity in Asia which will improve the significance of this region in global politics. This political centre will gain greater strength once Russia also swings back into better economic and political shape.

Surely, the changing geo-political contours have a space for Pakistan as a medium-sized military power which would benefit from the situation even more if it were to develop economically and put its house in order in terms of re-aligning its geo-political priorities. The policy regarding militants and militancy would certainly have to be re-assessed if Islamabad intends to get on board the Asian bandwagon.

The author is an Islamabad-based independent defence analyst. She is also an author of a book on Pakistanâs arms procurement decision-making, and on the militaryâs economic interests

Cheers <img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/cheers.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='cheers.gif' />

11-29-2006, 09:23 PM

QUOTEChinese 'gifts' worry India
Ramananda Sengupta
November 29, 2006 12:56 IST
A senior Indian intelligence official has expressed concern over what he described as the "dramatic increase" in Chinese attempts to woo Indian politicians and business leaders with gifts, some of them "phenomenally lavish."

Reacting to a story in Businessworld magazine, which refers to Chinese attempts to buy influence in India, the Indian official, who spoke on condition of anonymity, said while this is nothing new, what is of concern is the sudden and dramatic increase in the number of "influential Indians" being tapped by the Chinese.

The recipients of these gifts "spanned the political spectrum", the official said, expressing his "serious worry over this alarming trend, which has increased in leaps and bounds over the past three or four years." 

Indian intelligence agencies, however, could do nothing much beyond "keeping an eye on the recipients" and bringing this to the attention of the Prime Minister's Office and the National Security Council, since there were "major political implications," the official said. 

The remarks are significant as they come soon after Chinese President Hu Jintao visited India last week.

Admitting that this had been going on for "quite some time", the official said of late, there has been a dramatic surge in such incidents. Politicians in India's northeastern states and West Bengal are among the recipients of Chinese largesse, he said. 

While most of the gifts involve large sums of money and other incentives, leaders are also invited to China, ostensibly on lecture and "get acquainted" tours, and "treated like royalty there," the official said. 

The money involved is so large, the intelligenc official charged, that it would "certainly influence the political scenario not just at the provincial level in some states close to the Chinese border, but even during the next Indian general election." 

Most of these attempts are made by "so-called" private concerns in China, though all of them are actually Chinese government funded, and the main objective so far seemed to be to acquire "lucrative telecom and infrastructure contracts, among other things" in India, he said.

Indian leaders known to be sympathetic to the Tibetan cause are also being targeted, he claimed.

"The point is, you cannot blame the Chinese," he said. "They are doing whatever it takes to buy influence in India, mostly for economic, but also for political and strategic reasons," he said.

According to the official, who has been studying China for over two decades now, this influence had already led to strange spinoffs, including the government's reticence "to support serious studies" on the border dispute with China.

"While there are several Chinese think tanks which are studying the issue for a long time, in India, there is not one Indian scholar that I know of who is engaged in similar studies," he said, "simply because the government discourages such efforts and is reluctant to fund them."

Another Indian specialist on China, however, played down the extent of Chinese influence, saying while it is true that the Chinese have no qualms about buying influence, "if the Chinese have actually penetrated our political establishment in such a massive way, Hu Jintao would have addressed a Joint Session of Parliament during his visit. He did not."

A Chinese business leader, who accompanied Hu during his visit to India, put it differently.

"India and China are friends. We are also business partners. Sometimes it is necessary to express our admiration and respect for our friends through gifts. They are not aimed at 'peddling influence,' as you describe it. Besides, even your businessmen bring gifts for Chinese officials. Should we start looking at them as bribes, or attempts to influence Chinese interests?" asked the man, who identified himself only as Zhao.

http://in.rediff.com/news/2006/nov/29ram.htm

11-29-2006, 10:02 PM

QUOTEOf mandarin megalomania
Sandhya Jain, The Pioneer, Nov. 28, 2006
When Chinese envoy Sun Yuxi startled New Delhi by staking claim to the North-Eastern State of Arunachal Pradesh on the eve of President Hu Jintao's visit, he was simply reiterating the Middle Kingdom's practice of never renouncing territorial claims. Chairman Mao had once graphically delineated China's territorial vision with Tibet forming the palm and Nepal, Sikkim, Bhutan, NEFA (Arunachal) and Ladakh its five fingers. His successors may have taken the superhighway to super-capitalism, abandoning communism in all but name, but they have not departed from his territorial designs.

India, in the meantime, has abandoned Nepal to the US-dominated United Nations and the goon squads of the dubious Prachanda; closed its eyes to the sudden promotion of 'democracy' by the Bhutan king; and failed to manfully rebuff Chinese audacity in Arunachal. The tragedy is that even six decades after independence, Indians in blood and colour are playing games with the country's cultural and geographical integrity. If there is any continuity in the political culture of modern India, it is in the chasm between the nation's natural strategic concerns and its political actions.

Jawaharlal Nehru relinquished half of Jammu & Kashmir when the Indian Army was within a hairsbreadth of victory, at the instance of Lord Louis Mountbatten, and later claimed to be shocked when UN officials were found shifting border posts in favour of Pakistan prior to the proposed plebiscite. Still later, he tried to brazen through the Chinese aggression in Arunachal, about which he was given ample warning by intelligence. Lal Bahadur Shastri surrendered the hard-won peaks of Haji Pir; Indira Gandhi gave away 90,000 PoWs. And, notwithstanding the ISI's bloody footprints in Punjab's Khalistan movement, the nationwide jihadi network, and the meticulously planned Kargil invasion, Mr Vajpayee offered Gen Musharraf kingly cuisine at Agra. And now, Mr Manmohan Singh has embraced him as a co-victim of his own jihadi terrorists!

Nevertheless, the people of Arunachal Pradesh, home to the kund (pond) of sage Parashuram, must wonder why their civilisational links with the Indian mainland seem to weigh so little with South Block. Notwithstanding the racial-ethnic inventiveness of colonial officials-cum-anthropologists, Arunachalis have no historical or cultural affinity with the Han Chinese. According to scholar B Chakravarti, Arunachalis are Danavas of the Brahmaputra Valley who fled under pressure from Asuras of Mithila. The Kalika Purana says many Danavas departed to countries beyond the ocean (Sagarantam); others withdrew to the northern valley of the Brahmaputra and the hills of the Arunachal Pradesh, where they are known as Mishing, Adis, Apatanis (The Children of Abo-Tani in India, Fiji & Polynesia, Calcutta, 2000).

The Asom Buranji (history of Assam) recorded by the Deodhai priests of the Ahom kings says its earliest king was Mahiranga Danava. Chakravarti believes Mahiranga could be a Sanskritised form of Moirang, the capital of the Danava ruler. Moirang (Mai+rang) means husked paddy, and there are several places called Moirang in Assam's Brahmaputra valley as well as in Manipur. There is considerable evidence that Manipur was home to some Danavas, as also a transit point for other Danavas from the West to the East.

As Mahiranga was designated a Danava, it follows that he descended from people who claimed Tani as their ancestor ( Taneh apatyam puman iti Tanavah). Hence they are called 'Tanavas,' or Danava in Sanskrit. Assam had several Danava kings; the Asom Buranji lists them as Mahiranga, Ghataka, Samvara, among others. They ruled the Kiratas of north-eastern India.

The Puranas say around the third millennium BC, the Asuras led by prince Naraka moved from Mithila up the Ganga and occupied Pragjyotispura on the banks of the Brahmaputra. Ghataka led the Danava resistance, but was beheaded by Naraka, who also took over the white elephant of King of the Kiratas and riding it, started trampling and liquidating the Kiratas up to the river Dikrong. The Kiratas sought refuge beyond the ocean. Later, another Asura prince, Bana, travelled further upstream and occupied Sonitapura. The wars with the Asuras caused many Danavas to flee to Thailand and Myanmar; small groups possibly went even further.

While the entire North-East is permeated with stories and traditions related to Indian epics, gods, and holy men, there is no corresponding association with China and the Han people. Not even a trace of Confucianism or Taoism can be detected in the region. The earliest connection seems to be 1950, when China invaded Tibet. Later, it occupied 30,000 sq km of high plateau in Ladakh district (Aksai Chin) bordering Tibet and its own Xinjiang province.

The Aksai Chin road is strategically vital for Beijing, being the only link between Tibet and Xinjiang. Later, in October 1962, China invaded the eastern sector and claimed 90,000 sq. kms. of Indian territory on both sides of the Himalayan watershed. Sadly, neither Congress supremo Sonia Gandhi nor Prime Minister Manmohan Singh shows awareness that on 18 November 1962, the 13th Kumaon took its last stand here and died fighting to the last man.

Intelligence officers say China entered Arunachal Pradesh via Yunnan, moving stealthily across the Putao region of the Kachin state of the Burma Naga Hills, then a virtually unmanned region. It is keen to possess Tawang as it forms the strategic gateway to Tibet in one direction and Assam in the other. Tawang could challenge its strategic control of Tibet; hence India needs to be alert to a lightening attack on Tawang. China is ever enhancing its military presence and access in Tibet. The Qinghai-Tibet railway is likely to further link Lhasa with Shigatse and Yadong, near the Sikkim border. Mercifully, New Delhi has also now decided to build roads along the Sino-Indian border to integrate the border areas in the North-East.

Since envoy Sun Yuxi reopened the Arunachal chapter, there has been intense speculation that China wants to capture the State to harness its potential to provide an estimated 48,000 mw of hydroelectric power. China has denied reports that it plans to divert the Brahmaputra from Tibet to feed the arid Gobi Desert which contains nearly half its landmass but only seven per cent of its freshwater. Experts believe the Gobi offers China the only viable space to accommodate its burgeoning population; the Brahmaputra is close enough for Chinese engineers to envision a daring manoeuvre to nourish the parched Yellow River.
http://tinyurl.com/j8dfd

11-30-2006, 08:23 AM

Chinese 'gifts' worry India

Ramananda Sengupta
November 29, 2006 12:56 IST
QUOTE
A senior Indian intelligence official has expressed concern over what he described as the "dramatic increase" in Chinese attempts to woo Indian politicians and business leaders with gifts, some of them "phenomenally lavish."

Reacting to a story in Businessworld magazine, which refers to Chinese attempts to buy influence in India, the Indian official, who spoke on condition of anonymity, said while this is nothing new, what is of concern is the sudden and dramatic increase in the number of "influential Indians" being tapped by the Chinese.

The recipients of these gifts "spanned the political spectrum", the official said, expressing his "serious worry over this alarming trend, which has increased in leaps and bounds over the past three or four years."

Indian intelligence agencies, however, could do nothing much beyond "keeping an eye on the recipients" and bringing this to the attention of the Prime Minister's Office and the National Security Council, since there were "major political implications," the official said.

The remarks are significant as they come soon after Chinese President Hu Jintao visited India last week.

Admitting that this had been going on for "quite some time", the official said of late, there has been a dramatic surge in such incidents. Politicians in India's northeastern states and West Bengal are among the recipients of Chinese largesse, he said. 

While most of the gifts involve large sums of money and other incentives, leaders are also invited to China, ostensibly on lecture and "get acquainted" tours, and "treated like royalty there," the official said.

The money involved is so large, the intelligenc official charged, that it would "certainly influence the political scenario not just at the provincial level in some states close to the Chinese border, but even during the next Indian general election."

Most of these attempts are made by "so-called" private concerns in China, though all of them are actually Chinese government funded, and the main objective so far seemed to be to acquire "lucrative telecom and infrastructure contracts, among other things" in India, he said.

Indian leaders known to be sympathetic to the Tibetan cause are also being targeted, he claimed.

"The point is, you cannot blame the Chinese," he said. "They are doing whatever it takes to buy influence in India, mostly for economic, but also for political and strategic reasons," he said.

According to the official, who has been studying China for over two decades now, this influence had already led to strange spinoffs, including the government's reticence "to support serious studies" on the border dispute with China.

"While there are several Chinese think tanks which are studying the issue for a long time, in India, there is not one Indian scholar that I know of who is engaged in similar studies," he said, "simply because the government discourages such efforts and is reluctant to fund them."

Another Indian specialist on China, however, played down the extent of Chinese influence, saying while it is true that the Chinese have no qualms about buying influence, "if the Chinese have actually penetrated our political establishment in such a massive way, Hu Jintao would have addressed a Joint Session of Parliament during his visit. He did not."

A Chinese business leader, who accompanied Hu during his visit to India, put it differently.

"India and China are friends. We are also business partners. Sometimes it is necessary to express our admiration and respect for our friends through gifts. They are not aimed at 'peddling influence,' as you describe it. Besides, even your businessmen bring gifts for Chinese officials. Should we start looking at them as bribes, or attempts to influence Chinese interests?" asked the man, who identified himself only as Zhao.

12-01-2006, 11:56 AM

QUOTEMahabharata in Chinese sold out, goes into second edition
Author: Saibal Dasgupta
Publication: The Times of India
Date: November 22, 2006
Within months of its release, the first-ever Chinese version of theÂ MaÂhabharata sold out last December. The second edition of the six-volume transÂlation of the epic is now under print and would be out in a few weeks.

There is a growing desire in China to learn about India's culture and tradiÂtions. "For a long time, Chinese scholÂars paid too much attention to the West. Now, there is a growing desire to know Indian civilisation and imbibe its wisdom," Huang Baosheng, who headed the five-member team of translators at BeiÂjing University, told TOI.

"The 5,000 sets released in the first ediÂtion were bought not just by libraries Âas happens m the case of most such works - but also by ordinary readers," Huang, who is a teacher at the university's SanÂskrit department, said. The sets are modÂerately priced at 680 yuan (Rs 3,862) each.

Huang and his team worked for over 10 years translating the epic from the Sanskrit edition brought out by the Bhandarkar Oriental Research Institute in Pune. The institute's version, Huang said, is the best of the epic in Sanskrit.

"The Chinese version has more than 30 illustrations taken from the original. The work has been appreciated by scholars around the world, including those from Harvard, who recently visitÂed us in Beijing."

The Mahabharata's version comes several years after the Ramayana was translated into Chinese. Ji Xianlin, a Sanskrit scholar, secretly translaÂted the epic in 1976.

Huang and most Sanskrit scholars in China are students of the 95-year-old Ji, who is now in hospital near the university. The other scholars involved in the Mahabharata project are Huang's wife Guo Liang Yun, and Ge Weijun, Li Nan and Duan Qin.

"In the beginning, we could not find a publisher as such works hardly earn profit," said Huang. But the team, was bailed out by the biggest government think-tank, the Chinese Academy of SoÂcial Sciences, which published it. "There are a lot of stories and philosophy in the Mahabharata and it is not easy to renÂder them in Chinese. That's why we took so long to translate the epic."

**shamu** · 12-01-2006, 01:51 PM

QUOTE(Mudy @ Dec 1 2006, 11:56 AM)Mahabharata in Chinese sold out, goes into second edition
"The 5,000 sets released in the first ediÂtion were bought not just by libraries Âas happens m the case of most such works - but also by ordinary readers," Huang, who is a teacher at the university's SanÂskrit department, said. The sets are modÂerately priced at 680 yuan (Rs 3,862) each.

I'm not sure about other parts of India, but in Kerala and I believe in TN too there is a belief that a copy of Mahabharatha should not be kept at home. Many people say that it can cause family feude. Probably this message also be passed to Chinese who buy the book for their home collection.

12-01-2006, 05:15 PM

Last year 'Da Vinci code' was best seller in China. Turkey was reprinting editions of Hitler's 'Mein Kamf'. All a bit strange (at least to me) but is there some trend that's being missed?

12-01-2006, 09:00 PM

QUOTEI'm not sure about other parts of India, but in Kerala and I believe in TN too there is a belief that a copy of Mahabharatha should not be kept at home
It is based on family dispute, so they discourage to keep at home. In north some people tear off some pages or don't read complete book. But nothing wrong, it is just a good book/literature on history,religion, politics, and war strategy.
Chinese enjoy any book on war, plus Mahabharata puppet and stage shows are very popular in Thailand and oriental countries.

Bharatvarsh · 12-01-2006, 10:05 PM

QUOTEIt is based on family dispute, so they discourage to keep at home. In north some people tear off some pages or don't read complete book. But nothing wrong, it is just a good book/literature on history,religion, politics, and war strategy.
Chinese enjoy any book on war, plus Mahabharata puppet and stage shows are very popular in Thailand and oriental countries. 
Yes Goel mentions this, seems like a superstition, Mahabharata is one of our major scriptures and all Hindu homes should have a copy.
QUOTEBut I was painfully surprised when a wise man in the village equated the Mahabharata with Alha Udal, and warned that the narration, even the possession, of these two stories always led to feuds and bloodshed. I have read Alha Udal also, the entire 52 martial episodes rendered into sonorous verse by Matrumal Attar. And I feel very strongly that the comparison is absolutely superficial, and the belief purely superstitious. Hindus in North India have neglected the Mahabharata for a long time. The very fact that the Mahabharata has come to he equated with Alha Udal in the popular mind in the north is indicative of a great intellectual and cultural decline.

http://voiceofdharma.org/books/hibh/ch1.htm

12-03-2006, 05:37 AM

And, the Indian commies deliver to their masters!

QUOTETwo Telecom Vendors Clinch Indian Deals
http://www.tmcnet.com/usubmit/2006/12/01/2130667.htm

(Comtex Business Via Thomson Dialog NewsEdge) NEW DELHI, Dec 01, 2006 (SinoCast China IT Watch via COMTEX) --Two telecom equipment producers have entered agreement upon their cooperation with India's MCorpGlobal, according to the announcement on the web site of the Indian company.

The Chinese companies will finally march into India's telecom equipment sector through a strategic alliance when finding a direct entry into the sector difficult. The good news came out during Chinese chairman Hu Jintao's four-day visit to the country.

Local media in India reported that Hou Weigui, president of China's ZTE Corp., and B. K. Modi, MCorpGlobal's chairman, inked an agreement on November 21 to set up a joint venture in India.

Previously, ZTE, the second telecom equipment supplier in China's mainland, applied to increase the stake it holds in its Indian branch, but was refused by the Indian government. It was also declined to make inroads into the nation's telecom equipment sector.

The new venture will bring new hope to ZTE, and it will mainly import telecom facilities from the Chinese vendor. Both sides plan to build a research and development base as well as a works in India. The base will research and develop switches and wireless devices mainly tailored for India and Southeast Asia.
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