Sikh History

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<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin--><span style='color:red'>'सिख पृथक धर्म, पर अनुयायी हिंदू समाज का हिस्सा'</span>

नई दिल्ली। राष्ट्रीय स्वयंसेवक संघ ने अपने रुख में थोड़ा परिवर्तन करते हुए सिख धर्म को एक अलग धर्म तो स्वीकार किया, लेकिन कहा कि सिख लोग हिंदू समाज का हिस्सा हैं।
  संघ ने बृहस्पतिवार को अपनी वेबसाइट में अल्पसंख्यक को परिभाषित करते हुए कहा कि अल्पसंख्यकों से 'समस्या' तब पैदा होती है जब वह एक राजनीतिक स्वरूप धारण कर लेता है।
  भाजपा के सहयोगी अकाली दल द्वारा इस अवधारणा से सहमति नहीं रखने के बावजूद संघ ने कहा कि उसका मानना है कि हिंदू कोड बिल सिखों, जैनियों, बौद्धों और यहां तक कि ईसाइयों और मुसलिमों सब पर लागू है।
  इसने कहा कि आरएसएस बहुलवादी सामाजिक संरचना में विश्वास रखता है इसलिए वह मानता है कि समाज में अल्पसंख्यक बहुसंख्यक धारणा रहेगी और इसीलिए हर समूह चाहे वह बहुसंख्यक हो या अल्पसंख्यक उसकी एक भिन्न पहचान और भिन्न चरित्र होगा।
  संघ ने कहा लेकिन अल्पसंख्यकों को अपने मूल चरित्र से बाहर निकलने से बचना चाहिए। संघ की वेबसाइट में कहा गया कि बहुसंख्यक अल्पसंख्यक विभेद को केवल उन आधारों तक सीमित कर देना चाहिए जिन पर अल्पसंख्यक चरित्र के टिके होने का दावा किया गया है, लेकिन समस्या तब होती है जब एक खास अल्पसंख्यक अपने अल्पसंख्यक चरित्र के आधार की सीमाएं लांघने लगता है और राजनीतिक आधार प्राप्त कर लेता है।
  सिख धर्म के बारे में संघ ने कहा कि हम सिख धर्म को अलग धर्म मानते हैं, लेकिन हम सिख लोगों को अपने समाज का अंग मानते हैं। जब हम कहते हैं कि वे महान हिंदू समाज का अंग हैं तो हम उनके पृथक धार्मिक और आस्था के अस्तित्व से इनकार नहीं करते। हिंदू समाज कई धर्मो का मंडल है।
  वेबसाइट में कहा गया कि समाज में मूर्तिपूजा करने वाले तथा इसका विरोध करने वाले दोनों लोग हैं। वेदों को मानने या खारिज करने वाले सभी शामिल हैं। वे सब वृहद हिंदू अवधारणा का अंग हैं।
  इसमें कहा गया कि बहुत सारे सिख संघ की शाखा में हिस्सा लेते हैं लेकिन उनसे उनकी दाढ़ी काटने या पगड़ी हटाने को कोई नहीं कहता। संघ कभी भी सिखों की पहचान को समाप्त करने का प्रयास नहीं करेगा। यह संघ की सोच के खिलाफ है।
http://www.jagran.com/news/details.aspx?id=3337791
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RSS clarified/adjusted its stand on 'Sikhs are Hindus'. Sangh clarified that they consider that Sikh is a religion whose followers are part of the Hindu society. Hindu itself is a collection of so many different religions. Not necessarily all Hindus have to do Murti Pooja, nor all have to reject it, nor all have to abide by the Vedas nor all have to deny. It said a large number of Sikhs are swayamsevaks and Sangh will never try to 'assimilate' Sikh identities.

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<span style='color:red'>साझी संस्कृति के संप्रदाय</span>
सिखों के हिंदू होने या न होने पर पुन: बहस छिड़ी हुई है। कितने हिंदू, हिंदू होने के साथ सिख भी हैं और कितने सिख, सिख होने के साथ हिंदू हैं, क्या इसका आकलन संभव है? यदि श्रीहरिमंदिर साहिब में मत्था टेकने वालों में बड़ी संख्या मोनों की होती है तो वैष्णो देवी पर प्रसाद चढ़ाने वालों में केशधारी बंधुओं की। सिख वृहत हिंदू समाज का अंग नहीं हैं, यह मान्यता रखने वालों ने अब पुन: हिंदू विवाह कानून से भिन्न आनंद कारज विवाह कानून की भी मांग की है। सिखों और पंजाबी हिंदुओं की पहचान क्या है? इस संबंध में सिख गुरुओं के जीवन, गुरुवाणी और तत्कालीन इतिहास क्या संकेत करते हैं? यह मान्यता है कि श्रीराम के पुत्र कुश के वंश में गुरु नानक देव का जन्म हुआ, जबकि गुरुगोविंद सिंह लव के वंशज थे। गुरु गोविंद सिंह जी ने अपने आत्मचरित्र बचित्र नाटक में इसका उल्लेख किया है। गुरु नानक वर्ण से क्षत्रिय और गोत्र से वेदी थे। गुरु अंगद त्रेहण गोत्रीय क्षत्रिय थे। गुरु अमरदास भल्ला गोत्रीय क्षत्रिय थे। गुरु रामदास से लेकर गुरु गोविंद सिंह सोढ़ी गोत्रीय क्षत्रिय थे। इन गुरुओं के विवाह सनातन रीति से ही हुए। उनका दाह संस्कार भी हिंदू विधान से हुआ। चार गुरुओं का पिंडदान बिहार के गया में होने की आधिकारिक पुष्टि है। गुरु नानक से लेकर दशम गुरु तक (गुरु हरिकृष्णजी को छोड़कर) सभी का वैदिक रीति से ही विवाह संपन्न हुआ था। महाराजा रणजीत सिंह का विवाह भी वैदिक रीति से संपन्न हुआ। नामधारी संप्रदाय के प्रवर्तक गुरु राम सिंह जी तथा उनके उत्तराधिकारी गुरु हरिसिंह जी का विवाह भी वैदिक संस्कार से संपन्न हुआ। 1950 तक अधिकांश सिखों का विवाह वैदिक रीति से पांधों (पुरोहित) द्वारा ही होता था। आनंद कारज द्वारा विवाह की परंपरा 1900 ई. के बाद शुरू हुई और 1950 के बाद लोकप्रिय। ग्रंथ साहिब में हजारों बार राम, हरि, कृष्ण, मुरारी, गोविंद का जाप किया गया है। गुरुवाणी का मंगलाचरण ही भगवान विष्णु को समर्पित है-ओं सतिनामु करता पुरखु निरभऊ निरवैरु अकाल मूरति अजूनी सैभं गुर प्रसादि (श्री गुरुग्रंथ साहिबजी, पृ.9) ब्रह्मा बिसनु महेसु बीचारी, त्रगुण बधक मुकति निरारी। गुरुमुखि गिआनु एको जाता आनदिनु नामु रवीजै है (मारू महला 3, पृ. 1049-30) सनक सनंदन नारद मुनि सवाह अनुदिनु जपत रहोहे बनवारी। सरणागति प्रहलाद जन आए तिन की पैज सवारी (गुजरी महला 4, पृ. 507)। परब्रह्म विष्णुदेवजी के नाभिकमल से ब्रह्माजी की उत्पत्ति मानी जाती है। इस संबंध में गुरुवाणी में क्या लिखा है? नाभिकमल ते ब्रह्मा उपजे बेद पड़हि मुखि कंठ सवारि। ता को अंतु न जाई लखणा आवत जावत रहै गुबारि (गुजरी महला 1, पृ 489)। देवी-देवताओं की स्तुति में ऐसे हजारों पद्य हैं। आदिग्रंथ का अधिकांश भाग वैदिक दर्शन से अनुप्राणित है। प्रसिद्ध सिख ज्ञाता, इतिहासकार और पत्रकार खुशवंत सिंह का ऐसा मानना है। इसी कारण पंजाब में आदि ग्रंथ को वेदतुल्य माना जाता है। इसलामी अत्याचार के कारण गुरुओं की शरण में हिंदुओं का आना लगातार जारी रहा। जिन मंदिरों को आतताइयों ने तोड़ डाला था, वहां के देवी-देवताओं को गुरुद्वारों में प्रतिष्ठापित किया गया। जो मंदिर बच गए थे, उन्होंने श्रद्धापूर्वक आदिग्रंथ को अपने गर्भगृह में स्थापित किया। 1922 तक हरिमंदिर साहिब में हिंदू देवी-देवताओं की मूर्तियां व चित्र स्थापित थे। श्रीहरिमंदिर साहिब और श्रीकोलसर (अमृतसर) में मूर्तिपूजा हुआ करती थी। श्रीहरिमंदिर साहिब के मूल परिक्रमा घर में अनेक मूर्तियां स्थापित थीं। दुखभंजनी बेरी के पास श्रीकालिका देवी का मंदिर था, जहां नगरवासी ज्योति जगाया करते थे। जहां अब भूरीवाले संतों की बनवाई हुई ड्योढ़ी है, वहां श्रीकृष्ण और दुर्गामाता का मंदिर विद्यमान था। श्रीदरबार साहिब के लंगरस्थान में हनुमानजी की मूर्ति स्थापित थी। भारत के मूल आध्यात्मिक मूल्यों की पुनस्र्थापना इसलामी साम्राज्यवादियों से सहन नहीं हुई। चौथे मुगल बादशाह जहांगीर ने पांचवें गुरु अर्जुन देव को मौत के घाट उतारने का आदेश दिया। सिख परंपरा में गुरु अर्जुन देव पहले शहीद हैं। छठे गुरु हरगोविंद सिंह ने मुसलिम आतंक के खिलाफ शस्त्र उठाया और सिख पराक्रमियों की एक छोटी टुकड़ी को सैन्य प्रशिक्षण दिया। औरंगजेब के गद्दी पर बैठने के बाद सिखों पर पुन: अत्याचार शुरू हो गए। कश्मीरी हिंदुओं को जबरन इसलाम कबूल करवाने के लिए औरंगजेब ने मुहिम छेड़ रखी थी। आतंकित पंडितों के समर्थन में तेज बहादुर के खड़े होने के कारण ही औरंगजेब ने पहले उन्हें ही इसलाम में परिवर्तित करना चाहा। धर्म-त्याग करने की बजाय गुरु तेग बहादुर ने तिलक और जनेऊ की रक्षा के लिए अपना शीश कटाना पसंद किया। तब मात्र 9 वर्ष के गुरु गोविंद सिंह ने कहा, शीश देकर उन्होंने हिंदू धर्म की प्रतिष्ठा की रक्षा की। गोविंद सिंह जी को भी स्व-धर्म की रक्षा के लिए कुर्बानी देनी पड़ी। उनके दो पुत्रों को मुसलिम शासकों के आदेश पर जिंदा दीवारों में चिनवा दिया गया था। दो अन्य धर्मयुद्ध में शहीद हो गए। आयुपर्यत वह मुगलों से लोहा लेते रहे और इसके लिए उन्होंने खालसा को सजाया। 18वीं सदी के समाप्त होने तक महाराजा रणजीत सिंह ने कश्मीर और पश्चिमोत्तर प्रांतों से मुसलिमों का राज खत्म कर दिया। रणजीत सिंह के मिलिट्री मैन्युअल में ओम् के साथ विष्णु, लक्ष्मी, ब्रह्मा और शिव के चित्र थे, जिसे अमृतसर स्थित रणजीत सिंह संग्रहालय में देखा जा सकता है। उन्होंने ब्राह्मणों को संरक्षण प्रदान किया। गौवध के लिए मृत्युदंड निर्धारित किया। मृत्युशय्या पर उन्होंने विश्व प्रसिद्ध कोहिनूर हीरा पुरी के जगन्नाथ मंदिर को अर्पित किया। कश्मीर को अफगानियों के हाथों मुक्त कराने के बाद उन्होंने पराजित अफगानियों से सोमनाथ मंदिर के रजत कपाट वापस करने को कहा। ब्रितानी-पुर्तगाली अपने पत्र व्यवहार में उन्हें हिंदू महाराजा आफ पंजाब संबोधित करते थे। महाराजा रणजीत सिंह के देहांत (1839) के बाद दूसरे ब्रिटिश-सिख युद्ध के दौरान सिखों से खालसा सेना में भर्ती होने का आह्वान राजा दिलीप सिंह को गद्दी पर बिठाने के साथ गऊ और ब्राह्मणों की रक्षा के नाम पर ही किया गया था। महाराजा रणजीत सिंह की मृत्यु के कुछ ही वर्षो बाद पंजाब में अंग्रेजों का प्रभुत्व स्थापित हो गया। फूट डालो और राज करो की नीति के अंतर्गत जनगणना के नियमों और खालसा रेजिमेंट के माध्यम से उन्होंने विभाजन के बीज बोने शुरू किए। कुछ दशक पहले तक पंजाब में हिंदू और सिख संज्ञा नहीं थी। गुरुभक्त सिख और मोना अर्थात केशधारी और गैर केशधारियों के नाम से जाने जाते थे। दोनों के बीच रोटी-बेटी का घनिष्ठ संबंध अब भी है। हर पंजाबी यह निर्णय करने के लिए स्वतंत्र है कि वह सनातन परंपरा के अनुसार अपनी पहचान गुरु ग्रंथ साहिब व गुरु परंपरा के अनुसार माने या उस नीति के अनुसार जो अंग्रेजी साम्राज्य के दर्शन का अंग थी। (लेखक भाजपा के राष्ट्रीय सचिव हैं)
http://epaper.jagran.com/main.aspx?edate=5...e=10&pageno=10#

Good Article By Balbir Punj, National General Secretary of BJP, on common heritage of Sikhs and Hindus.

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<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin--><b>Operation Blue Star: Congressee sauda, Dera Sacha  Sauda  </b>
http://www.newsanalysisindia.com/115052007.htm
By Pemendra  agrawal  15-5-07 

Congress drew a  sect Dera Sacha Sauda in politics for the creation of Operation Blue Star like  situation. Congress got fatwa from Dera chief in its favor in the previous held  assembly election of Punjab. Congress developed the leadership of Bhinderwale to  divide Shiromani Akali Dal and later supported Nirankaris to crush the  Bhinderwale. 

<b>From where the name Dera  Sacha Sauda came </b>
Dera Sacha  Sauda sect in fact follows Sikh Panth and Guru Nanak Saheb. The name of  Dera sacha sauda is also picked up from an incident of the life of Guru  Nanak. One day father of Guru Nanak sent his son for purchasing some goods  and gave money fot that. Nanak dev went but he gave all money to the  saints and came back home. Nanak dev replied his father that he  distributed the money between the needy saints and that was a sacha sauda.  Thus Dera picked up this name. But in later as happened generally every  new sect, begins to compete their original panth. Perhaps this same is  happening now with Dera sacha sauda as happened with Nirankaris. Congress  as its character gives fuel to the fire.

<b>Creation of  Operation Blue Star by Congress </b>
In the Pre-Operation Blue Star period  the former S.G.P.C. Akali, and experienced politician Jail Singh, on the  instruction of Congress High Command dreamed the best way to break up the S.G.P.C. Akali Dal/Bhartiya  Jan Sangh (Preesent BJP) coalition was to wean the Sikh support away from the  S.G.P.C.

As the historian Patwant Singh  comments: “The person chosen for the role was Jarnail Singh Bhindranwala, a  seminary preacher with a considerable knowledge of the Sikh  scriptures,”

Jail Singh with Congress played his  clever card to destroy the Akali Dal/Bhartiya Jang Sang coalition by encouraging  the Sant Nirankaris to hold a convention in Amritsar. This in turn gave  JailSingh a weapon with which to potentially smash the Akali Dal/Jan Sangh  coalition. Jail Singh was fully aware that the Sant Nirankaris were considered a  heretical Sikh sect and perceived by most Sikhs as a enemy of Sikhism. Sant  Nirankaris asked the Punjab government permission to hold the convention in  Amritsar, this put the Akali Dal in a predicament. 

Jail Singh had played his card well  and the Akali Dal decided to let the convention go ahead and weather the storm  of Sikh protest. On 13th April 1978, the Nirankari  convention took place in Amritsar. A fanatical agricultural inspector named  Fauja Singh, affiliated with the Akhand Kirtani Jatha and Bhindrawala marched  through the streets of Amritsar to confront the Sant Nirankaris. Thirteen of  the, followers of Bhrindranwale, and three or four Nirankaris were  shot.

The Congress Party began to whip up  anti-Sant Nirankari sentiments amongst the Sikhs via their Congress-controlled  Sikh temples in Delhi. Not wishing to alienate their coalition partners, the  S.G.P.C. Akalis tried to play down the Sant Nirankari incident in Punjab. The  Congress-held Gurdwaras in Delhi promoted Bhindrawala as a hero of the Sant  Nirankari incident.  Meanwhile the Sant Nirankaris had  their court case moved from Punjab to neighboring state of Haryana because they  felt that in Punjab they would not get a fair hearing. 

The Haryana courts acquitted the Sant  Nirankaris on grounds of self-defence. Here the stone of Operation Blue Star was  kept by Congress. And this stone ultimately became the cause of assassination of  Indira Gandhi. Congress never wants to learn lessons from its unforgivable sins  against the nation.  The Congress Party of the Indian  government began to play a role in this clash when they started to support the  cause of the Nirankaris. For example, the Congress Party paid for many expenses  of the Nirankari Congregation. The Congress Party 's support for the Nirankaris  formation deepened the division between the Orthodox Sikhs and the Indian  government. This tension between the two parties eventually led Bhrindranwale to  seek refuge in the Golden Temple out of fear that he would be executed by the  Indian Army.

<b>Congress sowed the  seeds of Khalistan</b>
Prior to the Khalistani movement in  the 1980s, there is no example of Sikhs persecuting any heretical movement  within it ranks. Even the despicable Sikh sect, the Handalias, who caused so  much harm to the Khalsa in the 19th century were allowed to die a natural and  inevitable death. It is the Congress which sowed the seeds of Khalistan. 

The media in the Punjab took the part  of the Nirankaris on the pica of' secularism. So did the Congress party which,  on returning to power at the Centre, dismissed the Akali government in the  Punjab, where too fresh elections were held and Congress government  installed.

The same roles are being played by  the so called media and the Congress to create hurdles before the SAD (B) fight.  This is not going only in Punjab. Congress and Left create this situation every  where through various divide and ruld policy: Save Afzal move, highlighting of  fake encounter of terrorist a man of Don Daud, Freedom of Expression through MS  Uniersity of Vadodara and Indore. Kerala Govt. of left has decided to reward the  MF Hussain for making nude painting of Bharatmata and Hindu god  goddeses.

<b>Operation Blue Star  and Present Violence in Punjab </b>
The same situation is being created  by Congess in Punjab with the help of Dera Sacha Sauda. Sirsa border of Haryana  and Punjab is the capital of this sect and Haryana is ruled by Congress. After  its defeat in Punjab by wasting the fatwa of this sect, Congress and sect both  want to teach the lesson DAD (B) and BJP coilation government as the Congress of  Indira did in the past.

<b>Fatwa of Dera to  support Congress in the assembly election </b>
Now there is violent fight between  the two Sikh sects as per the poisonous divide and rule policy with sugar coat  of communal secularism. Sonia Gandhi in the name of secularism begged votes to  play the communal card by getting fatwa of a religious sect Dera Chief. 

Feb 10: Punjab Chief Minister  Amarinder Singh today said the Dera Sacha Sauda's decision to extend support to  the Congress will be a shot in the arm for the party during the February 13  polls.

Tensions had been brewing between the  ruling Akalis and Dera supporters ever since Dera supporters were told to vote  for the Congress in the recent Assembly polls. The Congress had done well in the  Malwa belt following the dictate

<b>Ad to show Dera  Chief as Guru Gobind Singh </b>
The violent tussle since May 13, 07,  began after newspaper advertisements allegedly showed Baba Gurmeet Singh Ram  Raheem attired like 10th Sikh Guru Gobind Singh and the Akalis protested the  advertisements that also showed the Dera head distributing "amrit".

<b>Efigy of Sonia was burnt </b>
In the back ground of present  violence, Akal Takht Jathedar calls Sikh conclave on May 17. This violence has  spread out of Punjab upto Jammu, Sriganganagar of Raj and Bhopal of MP. Communal  Congress and atheists communist should not be allowed to spread this violence  further. 

On April 8, the activists of Sikh  Students' Federation (SSF) burnt effigies of Sonia Gandhi and Congress today,  accused the government of shielding Sant Ram Rahim Singh, the owner of Dera  Sacha Sauda at Sirsa. The president of SSF, GS Grewal said that a few days ago,  Malwa Congress MLAs had appealed to All India Congress Committee (AICC) to bail  out Ram Rahim from the sex-scandal he is allegedly involved in

<b>What is PAW  (Political Affairs Wing of Dera Sacha Sauda)?  </b>
Members of Political Affairs Wing of  Dera Sacha Sauda are representatives of  Sadh Sangat for welfare of Sadh Sangat. 

<b>Edict splits Dera  followers </b>

<b>Political and  foreign wing of Dera SachaSauda </b>
I read a following comment of a  ‘premi’:
I am follower of Dera Sacha Sauda or  Sant Gurmeet Ram Rahim Ji. I want to request Sant Gurmeet Ram Rahim Ji to stop  playing with our sentiments. Dera Sacha Sauda has been commercialized and now we  are being insulted by society. We can't answer questions raised from society.  How can we tell them that our guru is a true guru when he has been making money  from his followers and now want to vote congress? We can't vote on the name of  GOD. Please don't be our guru of social world but only be our guru of spiritual  world. We can always decide ourselves whom to vote. Please keep your political  wing or foreign wing to yourself. We don't need them. Also keep your commercial  wing to yourself too. Hopefully someone will read this to you. Thanks

There is a book “Bande Tou Rab”,  where it is clearly mentioned that “Dera Sacha Sauda has nothing todo neither  with any political party nor in future will be related to any political  party……….” But Congress managed them scusscessfully for getting fatwa in its  favor from the Dera Sacha sauda.

<b>DM orders taking  over of Dera property in Himachal </b>
As reported on April 27, Kangra  district magistrate Bharat Khera has asked the revenue department to take over  the possession of 175 kanals of prime land in Chachian village of Palampur  subdivision of Kangra district as the state property and ‘vest the property in  the name of the state government as the owner in revenue records’. 

The land was allegedly the ‘benami’  property of Dera Sacha Sauda that was acquired by it in the names of some local  people. 

<b>Murder of  journalist </b>
On October 24, a gunman fired several  shots at Chaterpatti, a journalist based in Sirsa, a town in the northern state  of Haryana. Chaterpatti was taken to an area hospital but was later transferred  to the Apollo Hospital in New Delhi.

Police arrested three suspects,  including the alleged gunman and a leader of the Sirsa-based religious sect Dera  Sacha Sauda, according to the Press Trust of India news agency.

<b>Sacha Sauda: HC  comes down on CBI </b>
As report of April 17, The Bench observed that there was  no tangible material before it or genuine reason for the agency to seek more  time. The only inference, the court said, was that either the sincerity was  lacking or there were some extraneous consideration in dealing with the  matter.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

[dhu]

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Iraq is keen to rebuild a historic Sikh shrine commemorating Guru Nanak's visit to Baghdad, which had been destroyed by 'fanatics' after the invasion of the country by US-led coalition forces, a top leader said on Friday.

Iraqi National Congress chief Ahmed Chalabi, one of Iraq's prominent leaders, who drove down through the desolate streets of Baghdad to the sacred Sikh site last night under heavy military protection, said 'it has unfortunately been wiped out by fanatics because they thought it was against Islam'.

"It's shameful they cannot respect someone who has millions of followers," he said at the gurdwara site along the river Tigris.

Iraqi officials escorting Chalabi informed him about the original design of the gurdwara that was built alongside the tomb of a Muslim religious leader, which has suffered no damage.

"We will rebuild it," Chalabi said even as he admitted he did not know that a Sikh shrine had ever existed in Baghdad, which houses the Indian embassy.

The Iraqi leader, seen as close to the Bush administration, ruled out the possibility of the gurdwara being destroyed in military fire.

"It was a mortar attack by some fanatic," he said, adding he believed it would have happened after the fall of Saddam Hussein.

News reports during the Iraq war had suggested the gurdwara had suffered damage in the attack, but there has been no official confirmation until now from Iraq about its condition.

The visit to the site revealed complete destruction of the shrine.

Chalabi, who broke the lock at the gate of the shrine's compound to inspect the site, pointed out that the shrine's marble floor had been pulled out and its roof razed to the ground.

Indian spiritual leader Sri Sri Ravi Shankar, who accompanied him, also requested immediate rebuilding of the gurdwara.

According to Sikh history, Guru Nanak, the founder of the faith, visited Baghdad and had a discourse with Bahlol Dana, a sufi teacher.

The gurdwara commemorating the Guru's visit lies near what is now a devastated railway station in Baghdad.

"The Sikh community has contributed a lot to Iraq. They have worked here in railways, construction and a lot of other activities. We respect them and will see to it that this is rebuilt," Chalabi said.

For more information about the shrine and further pictures please click here

http://www.punjabheritage.org/material-her...atics-2505.html<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

[Guest]

Did Guru Nanak Dev really visited Makka? - I mean inside Makka, up to Kaba.

Aren't kafirs disallowed from entering that town, lest they pollute it? Or is that restriction a new Wahabi addition?

[Guest]

<!--QuoteBegin-Bodhi+May 29 2007, 10:09 PM-->QUOTE(Bodhi @ May 29 2007, 10:09 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->Did Guru Nanak Dev really visited Makka? - I mean inside Makka, up to Kaba. 

Aren't kafirs disallowed from entering that town, lest they pollute it?  Or is that restriction a new Wahabi addition?
[right][snapback]69499[/snapback][/right]
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

um.... There is evidence of Guru Nanak actually being at Baghdad and at Basra., he took a boat from somewhere in Gujarat and went all the way to Basra then Baghdad. Mecca stuff is all folklore., at that time (1500's A.D) Mecca was top of the world. British and europeans were at least 200-300 years away from industrialization. The Khalifa ruled from Baghdad while Islamic world was from Spain all the way to Dhaka., It was the golden age of Islam where many poets became Sufi and question islamic ways (they were tolerated). Even Ghalib in 1850s wrote so many things against Islam (like drinking whiskey in Mosque, etc) without any harm done against him.

Wahabi's only came to power in Saudi Arabia around 1880s-1890s... earlier all Shias, Sufis, even christians and Jews lived peacefully in Arabia. Deoband in India was also started around the same time (as Ibn-Wahab in Arabia)., Naqshbandi Muslims in India started getting power with Jahangir's rise but during Aurungzeb is when they crossed all limits. Vast majority of Pakistani muslims were converted during Aurungzeb rule (ended in 1660s-1707) and through Naqshbandi fanatic people like Sheikh Ahmad Sarhindi.

Guru Nanak dev ji had two disciples., Mardana and Bala. Folklore is that all three visited Mecca where Guru Nanak was sleeping with his feet towards Kaba when somebody got irritated., and you know the rest of the story.

[ramana]

Actaully Baghdad was destroyed by the Mongols under Halgu Khan in 1260 AD and the Khalifa with his family was killed. A branch was setup in Egypt called the Fatimid Khalifs. When the Ottomon Turks conquered the Hejaz in 1500s they took up the Khalifa title but are not recgnized by Arabs- Khalifa has three attributes- Must be from Quraish tribe, must posess the sword of Muhammed and one thing more I dont know.
Thanks for the input about Naqshbandis during the time of Aurangazeb. The same Naqshbandis were active in Ottomon Turkey and worked with the jannisary armies. Werent the Naqshbandis supposed to be a Sufi order?

I would like to know more about Sheikh Ahmad Sirhindi as he is supposed to have stopped the Indianization of Islam.

[Guest]

Thanks Sandeep, thats what I thought - Guru Nanak Dev might not have actually visited Kaba.

Ramana, Nakshbandis are a Sufi order as you said. There are so many Sufi orders, but prominant are these 4:

<b>1) Qadariya</b> (started in 11th century in Baghdad - 'Abd al-Qadir al-Djilani (1077-1166), a native of the Iranian province of Djilan)

<b>2) Suhrawardia</b> (started in 12th century in Baghdad too by Diya al-din Abu 'n-Najib as-Surawardi (1097-1168))

<b>3) Chishtiya</b> (ascribed to Muin al-Din Chishti (c.1142-1236) of Sijistan. It however gained prominence once it reached India, through the famous Chishti saint 'Chirag-i-chisht' (=lamp of Chisht order) Auliya Nizam-al-Din (~1325) of Delhi. (Hazrat Nizamuddin railway station of Delhi is named after him, and Amir Khusro was his famous follower). Ajmer shrine is also of Chishti Order. This sufi-order has to its credit a lot of mass-conversion of Hindus to Islam, especially in Panjab, Rajasthan and Bangal.

[In the passing, it would be interesting to note, that Dera Sacha Sauda is said to have close ties with Chisht order and Ajmer]

<b>4) Naqshbandia</b> (started in 14th century by Baha al-din Naqshband (~1389), in central Asia/Soviet side). This became popular in those regions, and Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan, Northern-Afghanistan etc. With Mughals it reached India.

All are Sunnis. In order of the size of the following globally, it would be Qadaria, Naqshbandia, Chishtia, Suharawardia. In south Asia however, Chishtis are most dominant.

[Guest]

<b>Sheikh Ahmad Sirhindi (AH 971/1564–1624 CE</b>)

[Guest]

In continuation to the previous post about the existing Sufi orders of India before Naqshabandias arrived at the scene.

Sirhindi and his followers effectively captured the Sufi's (Chishtis) idea of spiritual life and appeal. It is very tempting to compare this with how Sikhism developed into a 'religion'. A cross-play of doctrinical-strictness, political power, and rejection of assimilation. Compare this with the history of Sufism in India.

From the above link provided by Mudy:

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Sirhindi appeared on the Indian scene during the reign of the Mughal emperor Akbar (1556–1605), who systematically attempted to make Islam and the ruling dynasty more acceptable to the non-Muslim Indians. The most conspicuous step in this direction was his abolition of the jizyah, a tax that Islamic law imposes on the non-Muslim inhabitants of a Muslim state. Sirhindi strongly opposed Akbar's conciliatory policy toward the Hindus. He made devastating attacks on Hinduism and maintained that the honor of Islam required the humiliation of the infidels and the resolute imposition of Islamic law upon them. Because Sirhindi expressed these views in letters to officials of the Mughal court, numerous scholars have credited him with reversing the heretical trends of Akbar's era and with restoring pristine purity to Indian Islam.
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

[Guest]

More about Sri Guru Nanak Dev...

Actually whereever he went people became his followers... To this day people in Bengal are called "Nanakpanthis" people in Tibet still revere the "Visit of Nanak Lama" as well as many other places., except for middle east (In Pakistan people openly claim Guru Nanak dev as "Muslim" eventhough Gurudwara at Nankana sahib is as per Sikh rites and rituals with Sikh flag)

Guru Nanak debated with Siddhs at Kurukshetra and many sadhu saints at Haridwara, Benaras and all over north india. It is said that guru nanak travelled in four directions to gather knowledge about God.

About... Sufis.... These Sufis almost always arrived with an invader.

Chisti came along the baggage train of Ghori and stayed at Ajmer (till date).

Sarhindi with Akbar (after humayun was defeated akbar returned to attack india).

and so forth... I think that these sufis didn't played any spiritual part but masqueraded/claimed as they are closer to God through their antics. Even kings were afraid of them remember "Ab Dilli Door ast" as said by Nizamudeen (chisti of Delhi).

Many of these sufis were homosexual like famous Punjabi sufi couple Madho Lal Hussain. (one named madho lal other named hussain and they both lived together in love at Lahore).

Other folklore is that when Sarmad (don't know what type of sufi but he went totally naked all over Delhi) was beheaded his severed head spoke the ill fate of the emperor.

Most of these type of sufiis through taawiz, langar, magic, folklore, etc was used to soften up the upper/middle class of Hindus towards Islam.

Sikh Gurus realized the utility of Sufis and simply started the reform in Hinduism to match it and kept it up all the way till Guru Gobind Singh (after fifth guru through physical force) and later.

[Guest]

<span style='color:red'>Community of differences</span>
J.S.Grewal

Historically, there has been conflict between mainstream Sikhism and its breakaway groups. Politics of the day heightens the tensions.

Historically, a number of groups emerged from time to time in opposition to the mainstream Sikhs. The first was headed by Sri Chand, the elder son of Guru Nanak. He did not acknowledge Guru Angad as the only successor of Guru Nanak, and his followers, known as Udasis, were renunciants. They remained on the periphery of the Sikh community which consisted of householders.

The sons of Guru Angad, who did not recognise Guru Amar Das, and the sons of Guru Amar Das, who did not recognise Guru Ram Das, did not succeed in forming any important group. The eldest son of Guru Ram Das, Prithi Chand, offered a protracted opposition to his younger brother Guru Arjan; he refused to acknowledge Guru Hargobind, claimed to be the sixth Guru, starting a new line. His successors remained in occupation of Ramdaspur (Amritsar) in the 17th century. They were denounced by Bhai Gurdas as minas, or dissemblers, who stood in opposition to the true Guru.

Similarly Dhir Mal refused to acknowledge his younger brother Guru Har Rai and started a new line at Kartarpur in the Jalandhar Doab. Ram Rai refused to acknowledge his younger brother Guru Har Krishan and established his own gaddi at Dehra Dun. These dissenting groups acquired added importance because of the politicisation of the Sikh community after the martyrdom of Guru Arjan in 1606.

Birth of the Khalsa

Guru Gobind Singh instituted the Khalsa in 1699 as a political community and excommunicated all the dissenting groups. The Khalsa were not to have any association with the followers of Prithi Chand, Dhir Mal and Ram Rai. The Khalsa alone were the true Sikhs for Guru Gobind Singh. They believed in the ten Gurus. A day before his demise in 1708, Guru Gobind Singh declared that Guruship henceforth was vested in the Khalsa and Gurbani. The Guruship of the Panth and the Granth became the established doctrines of the Khalsa.

The keshdhari Singhs, who represented the central stream of the Khalsa, were also the most numerous among the Sikhs by the early 19th century. However, there were also the sahajdharis who believed in the ten Gurus and the Guruship of the Granth. They were not keshdhari, but they were seen as an integral part of the Khalsa in the 18th century. Then there were several categories of Udasis, and the descendants or successors of Prithi Chand, Dhir Mal and Ram Rai, and their followers. They were all patronised by the Sikh rulers.

Some new groups had appeared on the scene, the Nirankaris, Namdharis and Nirmalas. The first two were sahajdhari and they subscribed to the doctrine of Guru Granth. The Adi Granth served as the basis of their beliefs and practices. The Nirmalas were Singhs who subscribed to doctrines of Guru Panth and Guru Granth, but gave Vedantic interpretation of Gurbani, like the Udasis. Like them, again, they set up deras and remained celibate.

Sharpening of identities

Under colonial rule there was an overall sharpening of identities. The Singh Sabha Movement stood for Singh identity, the doctrines of Guru Granth and Guru Panth, the Khalsa rahit, and the gurdwara as the Sikh sacred space. Sikh scholars tried to give a systematic exposition of Sikh faith and the Sikh tradition, and Singh reformers accepted western science and technology and western education. The Singh leaders demanded that the management of the historic Sikh gurdwaras should be vested with the representatives of the Singhs. The Akali Movement resulted in the formation of the Shiromani Gurdwara Prabandhak Committee as a statutory body. The SGPC defined Sikh beliefs and practices and appointed the Jathedar of the Akal Takht as symbolic of Panthic authority.

Not merely the existence but also the demonstration of ‘unorthodoxy’ or ‘heterodoxy’ among other groups owing allegiance to, or using elements of the Sikh tradition for their own purposes, informed the attitude of the SGPC towards them.

SGPC and others

The Udasis were no longer within the pale of Sikh society. The original Nirankaris were tolerated or even appreciated even though they are sahajdharis and did not subscribe to the doctrine of Guru Panth. The Namdharis, on the other hand, were seldom appreciated because of their belief in a personal Guru which infringed the doctrines of Guru Granth and Guru Panth. The Sant Nirankaris came into conflict with the Damdami Taksal and were eventually excommunicated by the SGPC because of the public disrespect they showed to Guru Granth Sahib and the Sikh Gurus. The Radha Soamis make use of some elements of the Sikh tradition but without any disrespect for Sikh belief or practice. They are seldom criticised by the Sikhs or the SGPC. Thus, it is not the differences in religious beliefs and practices alone which lead to conflict but the demonstration of disrespect for cherished Singh beliefs, practices or institutions. The perceived political necessities play a part in heightening tensions.

The importance the Singh orthodoxy attach to external forms tends to circumscribe its appeal. Sikhs and non-Sikhs, especially the disprivileged, tend to seek solace in what appears to be a meaningful religious life offered by a personal guide.

The writer is former vice-chancellor, Guru Nanak Dev University, Amritsar

http://www.indianexpress.com/story/32277.html

[Guest]

This article by Mr. Grewal is right on!! Exact and to the precise as well as people controlling SGPC and general Jutt Sikh (more than 60% of Sikhs is Jutt Sikh) populace is concerned. As we Jutt Sikhs getting more education we will see a return to the original liberal beliefs of Sri Guru Nanak dev and SGGS.

BTW... Mr. JS Grewal is also a Jutt.

[Guest]

<b>Protest march over "conversions"</b>

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->The demonstration was a peaceful  protest

Police  say they are listening to concerns from Birmingham Sikhs who are
demanding  action against alleged forced conversions to Islam.

About 100 Sikhs protested on Saturday, marching from Handsworth to the 
police headquarters in the city centre. 

The march followed confirmation earlier in the week that police are 
protecting a teenaged Sikh woman who is said to have decided to convert to 
Islam. 

The protesters carried banners calling for an end to "extremist  behaviour". <!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

[Guest]

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin--><b>Dal Khalsa seminar highlights plight of Sikhs in India </b>
Pioneer News Service | Jalandhar
The Sikhs are not happy with India and they await their tryst with destiny under a new dispensation was the message emanating from the seminar organised by the Dal Khalsa to deliberate on 60 years of Sikhs in India at a local hotel here on Wednesday.

A galaxy of Sikh scholars and political leaders present at the meet repeatedly castigated the Indian Government for incriminating against the Sikh people.

In a novel way to present their case, the Dal Khalsa presented a list of 60 incidents and cases of discrimination and proposed to take up these cases at an appropriate international forum in the future for justice to the Sikhs. Newspapers, magazines and television channels are filled with euphoria about the years gone by. 60 heroes of India, 60 books of India, 60 leaders of India, 60 achievements of India, 60 sportspersons of India, Is this the complete picture? How about 60 incidents that will put India to shame", said one of the resolution.

The 60-point list called a charge sheet against the Indian Government states that<b> "Guru Nanak challenged the fundamentals of Brahaminism and other schools of social, religious and cultural domination. This confrontation continues. The Sikh religion-political ideology is clear and unambiguous. The Sikhs are sovereign people. The Sikh nation crafted and nurtured by the Gurus can grow and prosper in an environment devoid of hindrances and subjugation. The Sikh people will not submit itself to another State authority. This is the genesis of the Sikh case." </b>

Dal Khalsa president Satnam Singh Paonta while speaking on the occasion appealed to the audience for support for Dal Khalsa in their holy pursuit for the glory of Khalsa and the re-establishment of Sarkar-e-Khalsa. Another leader of the Dal Khalsa Harcharnjit Singh DhamiKanwar Pal Singh said it was ironic that Sikhs were being treated has a second class citizen, rather like slaves. Installing individuals at the higher ranking constitutional post is a ploy to deceive the world that the country was "secular" in real sense, he pointed out.

The message of Gajinder Singh, an exiled leader of the Dal Khalsa was also read. Sikhs had paid heavy price for nurturing ambition to rule that was rooted in their history and psyche, said SGPC member Karnail Singh Panjoli.

Former MP Harinder Singh Khalsa and former minister Manjit Singh calcuta also addressed the gathering. Gurdharshan Singh Dhillon and Karamjit Singh (Sikh intellectuals) also spoke on the occasion. Kanwar Singh Dhami, Dalbir Singh and Gurbachan Singh.
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Who is India's PM or Chief of the Army or Head of planning commision?
These guys really lives in santa banta land.

[Guest]

ask them to see this news:

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->गुरुद्वारे पर कब्जा: पाक से बात करेगी सरकार

नई दिल्ली। विदेश मंत्री प्रणव मुखर्जी ने आश्वासन दिया कि लाहौर में ऐतिहासिक गुरुद्वारा 'भाई तारू सिंह शहीद' पर शरारती मुसलिम तत्वों के कब्जे के मामले में जानकारी इकट्ठा की जा रही है। तथ्य पता करने के बाद यह मामला पाकिस्तान सरकार के साथ उठाया जाएगा।
  बृहस्पतिवार को लोकसभा में शून्यकाल के दौरान यह मामला शिरोमणि अकाली दल के सुखदेव सिंह ढींडसा ने उठाया। उनका कहना था कि पाकिस्तान के अखबारों में भी इस तरह की खबरें छपी हैं कि इस ऐतिहासिक गुरुद्वारे का गुंबद हरे रंग में रंगने के अलावा अन्य धार्मिक चिह्नों को गायब कर दिया गया है। सिखों को इस गुरुद्वारे में प्रवेश भी नहीं करने दिया जा रहा।
  कल राज्यसभा में तरलोचन सिंह ने भी यह मामला उठाते हुए कहा था कि सरकार इस बारे में पाकिस्तान सरकार से बात करे और गुरुद्वारे को इन तत्वों से खाली करवाए और गुरु ग्रंथ साहिब का प्रकाश किया जाए। आजादी से पहले 1927 से 47 तक शिरोमणि गुरुद्वारा प्रबंधक कमेटी इसका प्रबंधन करती थी और बाद में भाई अच्छर सिंह को यह सेवा दी गई। लेकिन आगे चल कर यह पाकिस्तान के वक्फ बोर्ड के अंतर्गत आ गई और अब गुरुद्वारे पर ही कब्जा कर लिया गया है।
  मालूम हो कि लाहौर के कट्टरपंथी नवाब जकरिया खां ने भाई तारू सिंह को बागी सिखों को लंगर-पानी देने के जुर्म में शहीद करवाया था। भाई तारू सिंह ने अपने केश कटवाने के बजाय खोपड़ी के ऊपरी हिस्से को उतरवाना बेहतर समझा था इसलिए उनकी शहीदी को सिख जगत में काफी महत्व दिया जाता है। यह गुरुद्वारा उस जगह के करीब है जहां उस वक्त तत्कालीन मुगल शासन द्वारा सिखों को पकड़ कर कत्ल किया जाता था।
  शिरोमणि गुरुद्वारा प्रबंधक समिति के अध्यक्ष अवतार सिंह मक्कड़ ने भी इस संबंध में केंद्र सरकार को दखल देने के लिए कहा है। बताया जा रहा है कि इस गुरुद्वारे पर कब्जा करने वालों ने यह कहानी गढ़ी है कि गुरुद्वारे के एक पुराने चौकीदार को पीर शाह काकू ने सपने में हुक्म दिया है कि सिखों को यहां से दूर रखा जाए। अब पीर की मौत की तारीख पता लगा हर साल उसका उर्स भी मनाया जाएगा।

भारतीय सिखों का एक दल जल्द ही पाकिस्तान का दौरा करेगा और इस मामले की जांच करेगा।
  डेली टाइम्स ने सूत्रों के हवाले से बृहस्पतिवार को बताया कि दिल्ली सिख गुरुद्वारा प्रबंधक समिति के अध्यक्ष परमजीत सिंह सरना की अगुवाई में एक प्रतिनिधिमंडल लाहौर स्थित भाई तारो सिंह गुरुद्वारे का दौरा करने और हालात से निपटने में सरकार की निष्क्रियता का पता लगाने की योजना बना रहा है। पाकिस्तान सिख गुरुद्वारा प्रबंधक कमेटी के प्रमुख बिशन सिंह ने कहा कि मुद्दे पर चर्चा करने के लिए एक हफ्ते के भीतर हम भी बैठक बुलाएंगे, क्योंकि यह एक संवेदनशील मुद्दा है।
  इस बीच, सूत्रों ने बताया कि गुरुद्वारे की देखरेख करने वाले इवेक्यूयी ट्रस्ट प्रापर्टीज बोर्ड ने अधिकारियों को निर्देश दिया है कि वे मंदिर के आसपास स्थित 18 दुकानों को तोड़ डालें ताकि पीर काकू शाह की दरगाह में जाने के लिए मुसलमानों को अलग से प्रवेश दिया जा सके।
  हालांकि गुरुद्वारे पर कब्जा करने वाले समूह के नेता सोहैल बट ने दैनिक से कहा कि अगर सरकार और सिखों ने उन्हें घुसने से रोकने की कोशिश की तो वह इसका विरोध करेंगे। उन्होंने कहा कि बड़ी संख्या में मुसलिम शाह काकू को श्रद्धांजलि देना चाहते हैं। काकू को गुरुद्वारा परिसर में दफनाया गया है।
http://www.jagran.com/news/details.aspx?id=3670449
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Muslims in Lahore have captured the historic Bhai Taru Singh Shahid Gurudwara. The main dome has been painted green. Omkar and other signs have disappeared. Sikh-Hindus are banned from entering. They are claiming that a muslim sain Kaku Pir has appeared in the dream of the gatekeeper of the Gurudwara - and ordered that Sikhs be disallowed from entering the place - and he is buried in the premises.

[Guest]

<!--QuoteBegin-Bodhi+Aug 23 2007, 10:45 PM-->QUOTE(Bodhi @ Aug 23 2007, 10:45 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->ask them to see this news
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
They have already declared it to be a big Hindu RSS conspiracy.

http://www.sikhsangat.com/Sikh-Shrine-In-L...d39-t30137.html

check post by user, "extremist"

[Guest]

(1) <!--QuoteBegin-Pandyan+Aug 24 2007, 04:34 AM-->QUOTE(Pandyan @ Aug 24 2007, 04:34 AM)<!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-Bodhi+Aug 23 2007, 10:45 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Bodhi @ Aug 23 2007, 10:45 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->ask them to see this news<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
They have already declared it to be a big Hindu RSS conspiracy.

http://www.sikhsangat.com/Sikh-Shrine-In-L...d39-t30137.html

check post by user, "extremist"
[right][snapback]72414[/snapback][/right]<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Oh that makes sense. Because really, it's the Hindus who've been turning others' religious sites into mosques all over the world, isn't it? <!--emo&:blink:--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/blink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='blink.gif' /><!--endemo-->

If they foolishly keep misidentifying the actual problem, then they're blindly running down the path of extinction. Ignoring islam doesn't mean it will ignore you: kaffirs must be eliminated for its bloodthirsty jehovallah to be happy.

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Muslims in Lahore have captured the historic Bhai Taru Singh Shahid Gurudwara. <!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->Oh yes, that's right, because the RSS is so all-powerful in Lahore, the capital of the Dar-ul-islam of Pakistan. <!--emo&:blink:--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/blink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='blink.gif' /><!--endemo--> For goodness' sake.
I really hope 'extremist' is playing at being a comedian and is not so dimwitted by nature. Unless that 'extremist' poster is just a desperate paki, trying to shift the blame hoping no one will notice the tell-tale green dome and missing Sikh signs...
Why does this last seem so likely - it's just sooooo in line with pk thinking.


(2) Here's something sad:
http://www. dnaindia .com/report.asp?NewsID=1116767
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin--><b>Sikh girl may turn Catholic for admission</b>
PTI
Monday, August 20, 2007  23:06 IST

LONDON: A Sikh couple in a village in Britain is contemplating converting their four-year-old daughter as a Roman Catholic in order to get her admission to the school of their choice.

Baljit and Bal Singh said they would not mind changing their daughter’s religion if it means she can attend the St Paul’s Roman Catholic School in Wolviston village, Cleveland, next month.

Their daughter Maya has been attending nursery at St Paul’s for the past two years. But they were told a couple of days ago that there was no place available for Maya when she starts full-time education in a few weeks time.

“Two years ago when they took her into the nursery, why didn’t they say she wouldn’t get a place straight away in the primary school?” asked Baljit.

<b>“I would have got her baptised then ... or I’d have put her in another school,” he added.</b>
St Paul’s admission policy gives priority to children who have been baptised Roman Catholic, have been formally received into the Catholic church and live in the catchment area, or those who have a sibling at the school.

Priority then goes to other Christian denominations before children of other faiths, the Daily Mail reported.
(Interesting how christian schools in christian UK work.)

<b>After several pleas to the institute, the Sikh couple said they were seriously considering changing Maya’s religion if she were allowed into the same school.</b>
(Doubt Sikhism would want people who would spit on their religion just to get their kid into some posh school. Do they even know about catholicism? Sure, make that poor kid join the ranks of mass-murderers; it's da thing. And then there's the paedophilia that their kid could well be exposed to. Ugh. Shiver.)

Meanwhile, Catherine Connelly, head at St Paul’s, said the school had received 34 applications this year, compared to the norm of 24. The class size had also been expanded to the legal limit of 30. “We allocated the places according to our published admissions criteria which all parents had access to,” she said. <!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->MMS should also do the same: get himself baptised when he finally goes back to school.
How desperate these confused parents are... are there no other schools for their kids - ones for which they don't need to convert their kids (and to a scary religion, no less)?

[Guest]

Most of these NRI sikhs are really anti-hindu and you should see the abuse pelted by them at hindus in that forum and another one called jattworld. But they don't seem to mind their paki muslim brothers and even marry their sisters off to them in their gurudwaras.

[Guest]

This reminds me. Last month I was visiting Smithsonian Institute Museum, Washington DC. In the Museum of Natural History, of all the places, there was a temporary special exhibit gallery - on Punjab and Sikhism.

It avoided all mentions of India or Hinduism. All it said was "Nanak Dev was raised in a Hindu family". Rest of the exhibit explained how Sikhs are "martial peoples" , how their "religion" is egalitarian and so on, and wealth of Punjab. Lots on Raja Ranjit Singhji and his son Dilip Singh (who had been "adopted" by Queen Victoria, volunteerily converted to Christianism, and buried in England). Lots on the persecution of the Gurus, but NO mention of the jehadi angle of the persecutions, and Islamic hatred towards Sikhs. The Shahjahan and Awrangzeb were largely forgiven.

I suspect it was a paid arrangement. The funny part was why was it in the museum of natural history? Sikh gallery in between the sections of insects and mammals!