Pakistan News And Discussion-12

Naresh · 08-04-2007, 06:45 PM

âEre We Go!, âEre We Go!!, âEre We Go!!! <img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/clap.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='clap.gif' />

Again <img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/ROTFL.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='ROTFL.gif' />

[center]22 killed in guerrilla raid and suicide attack in Pakistan <img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/Flush.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='Flush.gif' /> [/center]

Cheers <img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/cheers.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='cheers.gif' />

08-04-2007, 08:46 PM

QUOTEIn anotherâs tongue 
FT.com
KK Aziz
in the sixth installment of eight, bemoans Punjabisâ disregard for their language
Â Â
If a stranger entered the Lahore Coffee House before or after 1947, he would be justified in thinking that Lahore was still under British rule or that he had walked into an English restaurant. That is, until he heard people talking.

On the one hand, this cultural spate overwhelmed the province without distinction of religion, education or class; on the other, it made the Punjabi look with favour on certain Western traditions and customs. There are identifiable historical reasons for the Punjab becoming the most deeply Westernised province of British India. Tracing this historical development will take me far from my subject, so I will content myself with one other aspect of the transformation of the Punjab, as it is relevant to what went on in the Coffee House.

Everyone in the House spoke Punjabi (overruling the communal divide) but for the Urdas who pretended that they did not understand or speak the language. Everyone spoke Punjabi but wrote in Urdu. To take this irrationality one step further, they spoke Urdu at the Halqa , though they continued the discussion on the same subject in Punjabi in the Coffee House or Tea House.

Whatever the reasons for this (and there are many, including the Punjabisâ severe inferiority complex), the Punjabi which the house spoke incessantly was a unique blend of the native tongue and the English language. The chatterbox could not express himself in pure Punjabi for more than two minutes without using English. This use of a foreign tongue ranged from a single word to a short phrase to a long sentence. I have lived for most of my life in Europe, Africa and the Middle East, and nowhere have I heard a bilingual conversation or speech outside the Subcontinent. The Urdas, who are so proud of their language and have forced it on Pakistan as its national language, are as bad or helpless as the Punjabis.

So the Coffee House talked for 14 hours a day in what we may call Punjlish , a unique mixture of two tongues which gave everyone the ability to express his thoughts and feelings with perfect precision. Beyond that there were exasperating contradictions and fallacies. The Punjabi spoke Punjlish with his family and friends and teachers. But the arrival or presence of one single Urda made him and his circle switch immediately to Urdu. He also wrote his literature in Urdu, and discussed its finer points in Urdu, but only in the Halqa or other formal causeries. The post- Halqa meetings in the Coffee House and Tea House were conducted in Punjlish .

The more the Punjabis advanced into the murky depths of political independence, the more they abandoned Punjabi and Punjlish , and gradually, the vast majority in the urban areas became Urdu speakers. But that was not the end of the journey. In the early 1990s came a new age of speaking English (and simultaneously dressing up in European/American casual wear). Compared to today, the Coffee House was a native talk shop, even after a century of British rule.

One factor, which was both the cause and the consequence of this secularism was the impact of the West on local ideas. It is a paradox that the Punjabi intellectual was more Westernised after 1947 than in the old days of British rule. This showed up the most in his art and literature. Modern European art even infiltrated the imagination and technique of the teachers and students of the Mayo School. The founder and head of the Department of Fine Arts at the Punjab University was a European trained in England who had no knowledge of, or concern with, Islamic or Indian art.

This Western wave mounted the beach of literature the farthest. The literati who had so far talked and judged according to the terms of reference provided by Altaf Husain Hali and Muhammad Husain Azad and the foundations laid by the Aligarh movement, now brought in Thomas Arnold and TS Eliot. Few had read or now read the original works of these critics or even had the necessary competence to understand them. But once one or two essays by Eliot were translated into Urdu and people like Muzaffar Ali Syed began to swear by him, it became a fashionable thing to apply Western principles of literary criticism to Urdu letters. The major topic of discussion was the place of tradition in literature. Perhaps the new converts had only read one of Eliotâs essays. Nobody mentioned Eliotâs thoughts on Christianity and conservatism. It is easier to translate than to ponder, and the easiest of all is to flaunt the little knowledge we have. There was no Muhammad Hasan Askari in Lahore, and no Coffee House fan could read French and German.

The principal weakness of this borrowing was an ignorance of the place of tradition in a peopleâs literature, which led to the laughable attempts to apply Eliotâs criteria and theories to the origins and development of Urdu language and literature. In any case, none of the upholders of new criticism had read any Western literature first hand. They treated the newly discovered principles of literary criticism in the same way all Pakistanis have treated borrowed technologies, using them blindfolded, unable to repair the minutest fault.

This practice was alien to our culture (but not to our tradition â look at the 19th century dÃ¡stÃ¡ngos of Delhi), and no cafÃ© or public place recalled literature in this manner. I can account for this in reference to the Punjab and its people. Punjabi epic poetry is recited or sung in the rural areas where people understand and appreciate it. With some exceptions, the common Punjabi urbanite cannot read Punjabi, not to speak of understanding or enjoying it. He has no classics in the sense that he has no old literature which he can consider his own. Classics emerge from the soil of a region and become a part of the psyche of the people. With his decision to abandon Punjabi as his spoken tongue and to allow his schooling in Urdu, he has spurned his heritage and has disowned his past.

The modern Punjabi mind eludes analysis. It welcomes all foreign languages if they are in the use of the rulers and excels in them. It took to Persian in the 11th century and contributed to its literature with distinction. It adopted Urdu in the 19th century and ornamented its letters and poetry, sometimes surpassing the efforts of the Urdu-speaking writers. It turned to English in the 20th century, and the elite spoke and wrote it with confidence.

This changing scenario deprived the Punjabi of an opportunity to have his own classics. Even the Punjabi men of letters, whose working language is Urdu, will not accept Dastan-i-Amir-Hamza or Fasana-i-Azad or any old poetry as one of his own classics, because his ancestors had nothing to do with these writings. They are not rooted in his soil or history or tradition or mentality.

Let us go a step further. Granted the Punjabis have no classics, but do the Urdu-speaking men of letters have any? If they do, why are they not identified, read widely, reprinted and easily available at bookshops? The fact is that Urdu is a foreign tongue, born and bred abroad, imposed on the country by official edict, and now only embraced by the Urdas and those Punjabis who are deluded, and have appointed themselves guardians and spokesmen of a religious ideology which they have failed to define, and of a national patriotism which they confine to one province and deny to Sindh, Balochistan and the NWFP. On this point the Coffee House population was completely confused.

KK Aziz is one of Pakistanâs most prominent historians

08-04-2007, 08:48 PM

QUOTE22 killed in guerrilla raid and suicide attack in Pakistan 

Should we presume they are new freedom fighters of "Afghania" <!--emo& Big Grin

--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' />

Naresh · (This post was last modified: 08-05-2007, 02:16 AM by Naresh.)

QUOTE(Mudy @ Aug 4 2007, 08:48 PM)<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE22 killed in guerrilla raid and suicide attack in Pakistan 

Should we presume they are new freedom fighters of "Afghania" <!--emo& Big Grin

--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' />
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Mudy Ji :

Indeed

The Most Magnanimous, The Most Magnificent, The Most Merciful &The Most Munificent has Granted each of the 22 Terrorist Shaheeds - from whose Graves the Faithful have experienced the Aroma of Musk & Roses - 72 Virgins and 36 Boys each.

As such The Store Keeper and Logistics Officer of The Most Magnanimous, The Most Magnificent, The Most Merciful &The Most Munificent has filled an Indent Form for replenishment of the just consummated 1584 Virgins and 792 Boys!

Cheers <img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/cheers.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='cheers.gif' />

08-06-2007, 07:40 AM

Al Qaeda member: U.S. embassies prime targets

Mushy is still in control.
QED.

Naresh · (This post was last modified: 08-07-2007, 04:33 AM by Naresh.)

QUOTE(Mudy @ Aug 4 2007, 08:46 PM)In anotherâs tongue 
FT.com
KK Aziz
in the sixth installment of eight, bemoans Punjabisâ disregard for their language
.
.
. Â
1. Whatever the reasons for this (and there are many, including the Punjabisâ severe inferiority complex), the Punjabi which the house spoke incessantly was a unique blend of the native tongue and the English language.
.
.

2. The Urdas, who are so proud of their language and have forced it on Pakistan as its national language, are as bad or helpless as the Punjabis.
.
KK Aziz is one of Pakistanâs most prominent historians
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Mudy Ji :

Thank you very much indeed for posting this Gem of an Article.

1. Mr. Aziz should have qualified âPunjabi-Punjabisâ as Pakistani-Muslim Punjabi-Punjabis.

The one about âInferiority Complexâ is a fact known for Decades upon Decades - may be even Centuries.

If truth be told then the Pakistani Muslim who call themselves Punjabis i.e. Pakjabis actually suffer from a Case of Inadequacies to the extent that their Inferiority Complex also suffers from Severe Inadequacies.

2. Herein lies the reason for the non-cohesiveness in Pakistan.

Urdu - as you know - is not a Language but a âLingua Francaâ of the Invaders from the North West of India which comprised of Arabic, Persian and Turkic Speaking Marauders.

The Term âUrduâ is a Turkic Word meaning âCampâ - Thus it is the Language of the Camp and includes the Inhabitants of the Camp(s) as well as the Camp Followers.

It is sad that many Hindu and Sikhs of Punjab and other parts of North India are so enamoured by Urdu and are Passionate Lovers of the Urdu Culture.

The Urdu word for Culture is âTehzeebâ and the following goes to the root of the Urdu Culture and its Language :

Q : Mian, Tahzeeb Kahan Seekhi Jaati Hai?

A : Babu Ji, Tehzeeb Seekhi Jaati Hai Bai Ji Kay Kothay Pur!

Cheers <img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/cheers.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='cheers.gif' />

08-06-2007, 09:58 PM

QUOTEQ : Mian, Tahzeeb Kahan Seekhi Jaati Hai?

A : Babu Ji, Tehzeeb Seekhi Jaati Hai Bai Ji Kay Kothay Pur!
<img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/ROTFL.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='ROTFL.gif' /> <img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/ROTFL.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='ROTFL.gif' />

I just hate Urdu. I don't understand when people want to promote urdu. Atleast in India-Punjab people are moving away from urdu. It is language used or promoted by whore house.

08-07-2007, 08:26 AM

QUOTE(Viren @ Jul 31 2007, 11:50 AM)Hand over Dawood Ibrahim to us, US tells Pakistan

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTEThe US' Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) and the Drug Enforcement Agency (DEA) have sought assistance from Pakistan's Interior Ministry, Anti-Narcotic Force (ANF) and the Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) to hunt down Dawood in the Islamic nation, The News quoted sources as saying.


QUOTEHowever, only the Interior Ministry has responded to the request of the US agencies so far, saying that any such help was impossible since no such person by the name of Dawood Ibrahim lived on Pakistan soil.

<img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/liar.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='liar.gif' />
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ZeeNews reporting today that there are rumours of Dawood, Chotta Shakeel and Tiger Memom are under arrest by Pakis. Being held in Quetta.
True?

08-07-2007, 09:05 AM

QUOTEZeeNews reporting today that there are rumours of Dawood, Chotta Shakeel and Tiger Memom are under arrest by Pakis. Being held in Quetta.
Not true, because they are part of Army-Mullah-ISI brotherhood, it will harm Pakis more, because sitting inside Pakistan these guys just had to tell either Indian Politicians or Police or other foot soldiers to create havoc in India, and these dedicated morons will honor any request, now why Pakis will arrest them and give pleasure to Hindus.

Media and especially zeenews is master in planting stories provided by Congress.

Naresh · 08-07-2007, 08:24 PM

QUOTE(Mudy @ Aug 6 2007, 09:58 PM)<div class='quotetop'>QUOTEQ : Mian, Tahzeeb Kahan Seekhi Jaati Hai?

A : Babu Ji, Tehzeeb Seekhi Jaati Hai Bai Ji Kay Kothay Pur!
<img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/ROTFL.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='ROTFL.gif' /> <img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/ROTFL.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='ROTFL.gif' />

*I just hate Urdu.* I don't understand when people want to promote urdu. Atleast in India-Punjab people are moving away from urdu. It is language used or promoted by whore house.
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Mudy Ji :

* : Welcome to the Club. <img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/ROTFL.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='ROTFL.gif' /> <img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/ROTFL.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='ROTFL.gif' />

You are not alone. Over Ninety Percent of the 170 million belligerent, illiterate ânanga-bhookasâ Â®Ardeshir Cowasjee are with you.

Cheers <img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/cheers.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='cheers.gif' />

08-07-2007, 11:19 PM

Pakistan bombards militant hide-outs 
Are they killing Afghania freedom fighters or just women and girls as they did in Lal Masjid?

08-07-2007, 11:23 PM

Reports of Dawood's arrest absurd: Pakistan
Told you. <!--emo& Big Grin

--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' />
Indian media is most unreliable and same are those babus who came up with idea to spread rumor in media.

Naresh · 08-08-2007, 02:36 PM

[center]River inflows going down due to less rain <img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/Flush.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='Flush.gif' />[/center]

LAHORE - The failed monsoon spell has caused a steady depletion in the water resources as well as less inflows into the two major reservoirs Tarbela and Mangla. Punjab irrigation sources expressed their fears that the way the river inflows were going down due to no rains in the catchment areas, they may not b able to fill the dams as per the plan for the next Rabi season.

Explaining the alarming situation, the irrigation department consultant said that the reading of Jehlum river inflow into Mangla was recorded Tuesday at 20 thousand cusecs as against 22 thousand on Monday. As the Mangla command area included the north Punjab cotton belt, much of the water was passed on to the canal network and only 5 thousand cusecs was preserved while the necessary benchmark was at least 10 thousand cusecs. The consultant pointed out that on Monday out of 22000 cusecs, 16500 were passed on to the canal network, while on Tuesday, out of 20000 cusecs, 15000 were passed forward.

The sources pointed out to a somewhat similar situation in Tarbela where from the inflows of 225000 cusecs in the last weeks of July, the water inflows have gone down to 181 thousand on Tuesday from the 188 thousand mark on Monday.

The sources argued that with the inflows decreasing due to now substantial rains in the catchment areas, there was no substantial inflow into the rivers from the tributaries in the above mentioned catchment areas. They pointed out that in the absence of concentrated rains in the above-mentioned areas, the situation was a bit dismal.

Here it may be mentioned that the Monday evening flash flood warning in Chenab was also caused by isolated rains that caused the tributaries to swell temporarily. The irrigation data revealed that while the Chenab swelled to 97000 cusecs Monday evening, it went down to 74000 at 0600 Tuesday morning, further depleting to 70 thousand by Tuesday noon. The irrigation sources argued that the almost nil flood situation was indicative of the overall water shortage.

Cheers <img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/cheers.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='cheers.gif' />

08-08-2007, 10:21 PM

Nareshji,
Don't worry.
<!--emo& Big Grin

--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /> Pakis will soon amaze whole world by making river flow in reverse direction. It will solve multiple problems, sea level will go back to same old level, all rivers will be following full, multiple dams will produce electricity for whole world, glaciers will have ice pack and again and finally they can flood whole India.
Now how long it will take is a Question. I can bet, in madarasa labs, they already had design based on Islamic Science.
<!--emo& Big Grin

--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' />

Naresh · (This post was last modified: 08-09-2007, 01:19 AM by Naresh.)

QUOTE(Mudy @ Aug 8 2007, 10:21 PM)Nareshji,
Don't worry.
<!--emo& Big Grin

--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /> Pakis will soon amaze whole world by making river flow in reverse direction. It will solve multiple problems, sea level will go back to same old level, all rivers will be following full, multiple dams will produce electricity for whole world, glaciers will have ice pack and again and finally they can flood whole India.
Now how long it will take is a Question. I can bet, in madarasa labs, they already had design based on Islamic Science.
<!--emo& Big Grin

--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' />
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Mudy Ji :

[center]AND INDIAN PRIME MINISTER DR. MAN MOHAN SINGH WILL LOSE HIS SLEEP! <img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/Flush.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='Flush.gif' />[/center]

Cheers <img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/cheers.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='cheers.gif' />

ramana · 08-09-2007, 02:09 AM

Mushy about to clamp Emergency-Google cache

Dork is pulling a coup against himself !

08-09-2007, 02:27 AM

QUOTEDork is pulling a coup against himself ! QUOTE``He is trying to convey a strong message to the United States. There have been a lot of statements coming out of Washington about violating Pakistan's sovereignty and so on,'' said Talat Masood, a former Pakistani general.

A U.S. State Department official said the Bush administration was surprised and dismayed by Musharraf's snub, particularly after Afghan President Hamid Karzai repeatedly expressed satisfaction about the meeting during a joint appearance with President Bush on Monday.

State Department Spokesman Sean McCormack said it was unclear if Musharraf could be persuaded to reconsider.

``We'll see if President Musharraf is able to attend any portion of the meeting,'' McCormack said.

Not sure whether US will pull his ear or use cane but his days in uniform are numbered, countdown for new man in uniform. <!--emo& Big Grin

--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' />

08-09-2007, 02:30 AM

Declaration of emergency likely tomorrow: Reports

State of Emergency Possible in Pakistan- google cache

QUOTEThree reasons were given for the move:
the recent threat of US air strikes on the country,
the recent kidnapping of Chinese workers and
the ongoing heated debates within Pakistan's national assembly on the country's future.


Pakistan is openly shifting towards China and showing middle finger to USA. <!--emo& Big Grin

--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' />

08-09-2007, 09:23 AM

Rice Speaks With Pakistan's Musharraf 

QUOTERice spoke by phone to Musharraf in a call that took place in the early hours of Thursday in Pakistan where officials said an emergency declaration was being considered and that the president would soon meet with his cabinet to discuss the option, a senior State Department official said.

The official, who spoke on condition of anonymity due to the sensitivity of the situation, refused to discuss the substance of the 17-minute conversation that began shortly after 2 a.m. Thursday Pakistan time.

Kya ho raha hai !!! oh my God, middle of night.

08-09-2007, 08:17 PM

Middle of night chat really did wonder, no news on Emergency announcement yet. <!--emo& Big Grin

--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' />

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