Pakistan News And Discussion-13

Naresh · 11-11-2007, 04:09 AM

QUOTE(Mudy @ Nov 9 2007, 11:04 PM)Kiyani is very much Sindhi. [right][snapback]75105[/snapback][/right]


Mudy Ji :

Vaat are you taaking saain. Vudi Benya Kiyani is naat Sindhi but a Pathan-Pushtoon settled in Pakjab!

General Ashfaq Pervez Kiyani Biography

QUOTELieutenant General Ashfaq Parvez Kiyani belongs to the Gakhar tribe and hails from Gujar Khan, District Rawalpindi. He received his education from Military College Jhelum and was commissioned in the Baloch Regiment in August 1971.

Cheers <img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/cheers.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='cheers.gif' />

11-11-2007, 08:25 AM

Nareshji,
Just now re-checked someone I know, she is Sindhi Kiyani. Looks like Gujar Khan is full of Kiyani. According to her, Kiyani some migrated to Gujar Khan near pindi, some are near north of Karachi and Balochistan.

But this guy is from Gujar Khan near pindi.

11-11-2007, 08:36 AM

QUOTEPakistan on the verge of collapse 
Pioneer.com
After the blood soaked partition, Islamic scholars and maulvis used to meet Mohammad Ali Jinnah to impress upon him that Pakistan has been created on the basis of quantum of Muslim population and therefore, it should be Islamic and not secular.

In the first Constituent Assembly Jinnah had emphasised upon secular characteristics of the newly born nation. Islamic clergy did not want it to happen. Jinnah did not entertain them; rather, he rebuked them sometimes. But Jinnah died within a year and intense power struggle followed. Pakistan saw seven Prime Ministers in 10 years. In 1958 Army Chief Ayub Khan abrogated the infant constitution within two years of its formation. In place of this constitution, Pakistan was put under Marshal Law proclaimed by General Ayub Khan. He failed in Indo-Pak war of 1965 and had to hand over power to yet another General Yahya Khan in 1969. During his regime the discrimination against East Pakistan and Bangla language scaled new heights. West Pakistan treated East Pakistan as its colony and there was mass killings of over a million people. An exodus occurred and 10 million people crossed over to India to save their lives.

The situation compelled India to confront Pakistan. Pakistan was defeated and over 90,000 armed personnel surrendered to the Indian Army. General Yahya Khan had to pass the reigns of power to Pakistan's Peoples Party chief Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto. Bhutto tried to run the country under a democratic system and also endeavoured to frame a durable constitution. But Army Chief General Zia-ul-Haq was waiting in the wings. He pounced upon and put Bhutto behind the bars in a bloodless coup and hanged him later allegedly for a murder. The Marshal Law continued for nine years till his air force plane crashed in 1998. It is said that CIA removed him from the scene as he become inconvenient.

After that some semblance of democracy was apparent when Pakistan Muslim League leader Nawaz Sharif and Pakistan's Peoples Party leader alternatively became Prime Ministers of Pakistan. It was in 1999 when Musharraf staged another bloodless Army coup that has been continuing till date.

There are vital pointers from this brief story of Pakistan. First, Pakistan could not evolve a durable constitution for itself worth the name through out its whole history. Every military dictator tempered the so called existing constitution and framed laws suiting his survival and interests. This is what has happened this time. Musharraf abrogated the constitution, promulgated the Emergency and imposed Marshal Law and above all dismissed the Chief Justice of Pakistan Supreme Court, Iftikhar Muhammad Chaudhry along with half a dozen of his colleagues. He forced others to take another oath under Marshal Law which many of the Judges declined. He appointed a convenient Chief Justice of Supreme Court and manipulated the judiciary. In March 2007 he had given marching orders to Chaudhry but the legal community protested and Musharraf had to retract his steps.

Second, the foremost requirement of any State worth its name is that it must evolve a constitution. But Pakistan could not do so. Today the whole world thinks that Pakistan is a failed State. The basic reason behind this is periodic abrogation of its fragile constitution by one or the other Army General. The primary and the permanent factor, which worked in Pakistan throughout its history is the supremacy of Army over all others. No other institution could withstand its onslaught. Third, in every military take over, the reason given was the incompetence, failure and corruption in the civilian Government. The exception is Musharraf. Indirectly, he has to blame himself for the recent proclamation of Emergency.

One more factor has to be taken into consideration. Why do we not see democracy thriving in an Islamic country barring an exception here and there? Many learned scholars of Islam have conclusively proven that democracy and secularism are incompatible with the tenets of Islam. The symptoms of failure of Pakistan as a State are visible. After the assassination of Akbar Bugti, a popular tribal leader, it has become more ungovernable. There is fighting in NWFP. Heavy casualties are being reported. Extremists have strong pockets even in Punjab and Sindh provinces. When Benazir Bhutto arrived in Pakistan, 150 people were killed in a bomb blast.

In short Pakistan is waiting to collapse. Before that happens, UN has to device a control mechanism for the nuclear arsenals which have piled up in Pakistan's armoury and that poses grave danger not only for Pakistan but whole of the surrounding region.

11-11-2007, 08:43 AM

http://www.paktribune.com/news/index.shtml?194209
No retirement facilities for dissident Retd judges,

LAHORE: Former Chief Justice of Pakistan (CJP) Justice Iftikhar Muhammad Chaudhry and other judges of the Supreme Court, Federal Shariat Court and High Courts, who did not take fresh oath under Provincial Constitutional Ordinance (PCO) will be deprived of retirement facilities.

11-11-2007, 08:45 AM

Pakistan orders UK reporters out QUOTEThree reporters from the Telegraph newspaper group have been ordered to leave Pakistan within 72 hours. 
Why they have not kicked out Indian journalist or assualted Indian diplomats yet?

Naresh · (This post was last modified: 11-11-2007, 01:56 PM by Naresh.)

QUOTE(Mudy @ Nov 11 2007, 08:45 AM)Pakistan orders UK reporters out <div class='quotetop'>QUOTEThree reporters from the Telegraph newspaper group have been ordered to leave Pakistan within 72 hours. 
Why they have not kicked out Indian journalist or assualted Indian diplomats yet?
[right][snapback]75144[/snapback][/right]
</div>

Mudy Ji :

Have patience Mudy Ji!

Everything comes to those who wait!!

Cheers <img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/cheers.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='cheers.gif' />

11-11-2007, 09:39 PM

Nareshji,
Till now Pakis are behaving like Pakis, small missing action makes me wonder what big will come. We know Indians as usual are napping, trusting Aiyar and Menon to rescue them.
When 2+2 is not four, one should keep eyes open.
Delay may be current Cricket series, after series we may see some beating.
Can you believe after rejecting Minister visa who was true fundoo, I can bet H&D took beating, now how this fundoo will react or make others to react for him.
So, either we have wait till series end or ...........

11-11-2007, 09:54 PM

Pakistani leader calls for January polls 
Now why Mushy need this huge portrait of Jinnah?

11-11-2007, 11:39 PM

Judges ruling on Musharraf face sex blackmailQUOTESome of Pakistan's Supreme Court judges and their children were secretly filmed in compromising positions as part of a dirty tricks campaign waged by the country's feared military intelligence, a leading daily claimed on Sunday.

Videos were sent out to at least three of the 11 judges in September as they were deciding whether General Pervez Musharraf was eligible to run for president while still army chief, The Sunday Times reported.

One showed a judge with his young mistress while another was of a judge's daughter having sex with a boyfriend, it claimed.

"The message was clear," said a British barrister who was told about the tapes by a Pakistani counterpart. "If you rule the wrong way, these will become public and your family destroyed."

Quoting government and Supreme Court sources, the report said hidden cameras continued to be used to compile evidence against judges until a few weeks before the emergency was declared.

The family of a woman who was having an affair with a Supreme Court judge said they were devastated to learn that her trysts had been filmed.

The daily, quoting judicial sources, said "The ISI was sending the girls and the judges were enjoying it without knowing they were being filmed. Now they have videos of several of them."
Chief Justice Iftikhar Chaudhry himself was the subject of a separate ISI smear campaign during the government's attempt to have him dismissed in March.
..............

Quoting western diplomats, the report said it was Musharraf's intelligence chiefs who talked him into the desperate measure by convincing him that the Supreme Court was about to overturn his re-election as president. But it might have been false information, the report added.

11-12-2007, 03:31 AM

Pakistan army given sweeping powersQUOTEA week after imposing emergency, President Pervez Musharraf has promulgated an ordinance to amend the Pakistan Army Act 1952 allowing military courts to try civilians for serious offences like terrorism.

The ordinance, named the Pakistan Army (Amendment) Ordinance, 2007, gives sweeping powers to the security and intelligence agencies for interrogation of civilians involved in terrorism and other serious offences, media reports said on Sunday.

Many former military officers and civilians have been arrested since the November 3 emergency, including former spy chief General Hameed Gul.

A report in The News Sunday said that Gul, who was arrested for protesting against the emergency, has been asked by the administration to submit a ''mercy appeal'' to President Musharraf for his release. But the paper said the general preferred to remain in jail rather than file a mercy appeal.

According to Attorney General Malik Abdul Qayum, after the amendments to the Army Act, the army can interrogate civilians suspected of targeting military personnel and installations. Their cases could be sent to the military courts. However, the police cannot arrest such people and only the army would deal with them, he said.

To a question, Qayum responded that the sentences mentioned in the Army Act for serious offences had not been altered.

The ordinance also allows the military courts to take up cases involving persons like militants from the tribal areas, said an official here requesting anonymity.

He said it was a second attempt, a successful one, to bring civilians under the purview of the Army Act since 1977. ''The Lahore High Court had earlier struck down such an amendment made in the Army Act by the then government of late prime minister Zulfikar Ali Bhutto,'' he added.

The amendments would also redefine the role of security agencies by giving them more powers of arbitrary detentions, the official said. 

The new offences to be tried under the Army Act include terrorism, abduction, and use of arms. The amended act would apply to any such offences committed by tribal militants and other people, he said. 

The amendments also empower intelligence agencies to detain civilians without framing any charges and keep them in custody for an indefinite period.

Naresh · 11-12-2007, 04:39 AM

QUOTE(Mudy @ Nov 11 2007, 09:39 PM)Nareshji,
Till now Pakis are behaving like Pakis, small missing action makes me wonder what big will come. We know Indians as usual are napping, trusting Aiyar and Menon to rescue them.
When 2+2 is not four, one should keep eyes open.
Delay may be current Cricket series, after series we may see some beating.
Can you believe after rejecting Minister visa who was true fundoo, I can bet H&D took beating, now how this fundoo will react or make others to react for him.
So, either we have wait till series end or ...........
[right][snapback]75150[/snapback][/right]


Mudy Ji :

Laloo Prasad has - seemingly - joined the Aiyars and Menons :

[center]Pakistan minister 'dejected' at being refused India visa[/center]

IANS Wednesday 7th November, 2007

Pakistan's Railway Minister Sheikh Rashid Ahmed says that he is 'dejected' that India had refused him a visa to watch the one-day cricket match between the two countries.

The invitation for the visit to watch the ongoing cricket series was extended to him by his counterpart in India, Lalu Prasad, he said.

'I don't know why they have refused me the visa...but I am dejected,' Ahmed told IANS, adding that this was the ideal time to visit India.

According to him, the emergency, imposed in Pakistan on Saturday, would not continue for more than three months.

BTW : Rashid is known as âTULIâ (Bell) in Pakistan!

I suppose we have to Watch & Wait.

Cheers <img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/cheers.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='cheers.gif' />

11-12-2007, 11:30 AM

BB is looking for deal but looks like for now Mushy is confirmed king for while, Plan B Mr. Kiyani have to wait. This is based on today's news report.
Liberal media is supporting BB. But BB had taken couple of steps towards Army for deal under SD pressure.

11-12-2007, 12:02 PM

Crackdown in Pak has militants in the Valley confused and worriedQUOTENEW DELHI, NOVEMBER 11: â¢ Militant in Kashmir: Udhar halaat kharab hai, suna hai (Have heard itâs pretty grim there)

â¢ Handler in PoK: Woh (Musharraf) to Mujahid ki position aise uda raha hai jaise dushman ke bunker ho (He has been blowing up Mujahid positions as if they are enemy bunkers)

â¢ Militant: Idhar bhi kafiron (Indian forces) ne karyavahi tej kar di hai (Even here the infidels have stepped up operations)

â¢ Handler: Yeh jo (Waziristan) karyavahi hai, Hindustan ke kafiron ke hosale buland kar rahee hai (The Waziristan operations are boosting Indian morale)

â¢ Militant: Aisi halat rahi to dono taraf se hamara masla hi ho jayega (If this continues, we will be done for at both ends)

A flurry of such radio messages and phone calls across the LoC in the last few days indicates that Kashmiri militants, preparing for a winter stay in the Valley, are a worried lot with the declaration of emergency in Pakistan.

Communication intercepts by intelligence agencies have brought out the uncertainty and confusion among militants who rely heavily on logistical support from across the LoC.

Their biggest concern, say Indian intelligence agencies, is whether the supply lines from across the LoC will remain open. While most queries to their Pakistani handlers are on how the âMujahidâ are faring against government troops, the militants seem more worried about
I think Indian media is more confused, whether to support Mushy or Paki janta.

11-12-2007, 09:01 PM

Frankly speaking restoration of democracy in Pakistan may not be of any help in improving bilateral relations between India and Pakistan. If we look at our past experience we will find that no political outfit that have come to power in Pakistan has made any constructive contribution in promoting bilateral relations with India on a permanent basis. In fact, all of them have highlighted threat from India as a means for diverting public attention from more burning internal issues. A section of the civil society in Pakistan may be genuinely interested in having better relations with India. However, in no power dispensation in Pakistan so far they have had any decisive voice One has to remember that Pakistan came into existence with hate Hindu i.e. India agenda and even sixty years on , India remains a top selling commodity for any political outfit in Pakistan. Any political party that may show any inclination to improve relations with India will immediately become unpopular and a subject matter of criticism by other political parties.

11-12-2007, 10:45 PM

Ravishji,
I fully agree with you, only hatred towards India/Hindus is sole uniting factor. My major concerns are fundoos. Pakistan fundoos generation capacity is on full throttle right now. At this stage we are lucky they are busy within Pakistan, but this is very temporary phase, they will be major problem for India in future. In place of bi-lateral diplomacy, India should keep fundoos busy within Pakistan. Diplomacy facade is Ok, till it is just a cover, but current Indian leadership lacks, guts, vision for India or India's security. In place of cutting Islamist problem in Pakistan, now they are encouraging them in India so that they can stay in power.

India should push, Art of living, yoga etc in Pakistan when they talk about diplomacy. Need is to neuter these current and future fundoos. Art of living is doing great job in Iraq, Iran and Jordan.
 Objective should be Hindunised Pakistan, not Jihadized India.
Arab invasion destroyed Indic culture, efforts should be to revert back.

ramana · 11-12-2007, 11:08 PM

X-Posted...
QUOTE("ramana")<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE("Acharya")<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE("asprinzl")
Now we all know how intimate the Pak military is with the Saudi Barbarian royalty and I strongly believe that Saudi's do pull a lot of strings on behalf of Pak-Is-Satanis in both the White House and State Department.Â
That being the case can we seriously think the USA will stop the F-16 deliveries?Â There is a higher chance Pinky would pose nude in Playboy magazine than USA stopping deliveries of F-16s.Â Despite overwhelming evidence of ISI shenaniganism, Pak duplicity, nuke black markets and terror support and Indian opposition, the USA went a head and openned the gates for F-16 pipeline on top of designating MNNA status.
While it was clear as day and night that the F-16 is basically not much of use in war against terrorists.Â Condi's words to the contrary, after a couple of months of delay, the deliveries would continue.Â So would the money pipeline.
Avram
US Pakistan relationship is between Pentagon and Pakistan ARMY relationship. Every thing else including civil society is subservient to it.

No matter what; this relationship is a continuation of the British policy from 1900 to cultivate relationship with Punjabi Mussalmans. This is a race relationship between Anglo American with Punjabi Mussalmans</div>

You need to understand the larger historical factors. In order to remove the ghost of Islamic military threat to Europe, Ottomon Turkey had to be neutralized and neutered. Even this threat has ancient links to the pre-Islamic Persians. The way this neutralization was achieved was through the courting of Arabs under Ottomon rule. However Arabs do not represent a large demographic in the ummah. And oil was not discovered in Arabia till later. This is where the Pakjabi Mulims come into picture. They are large ~ 70 Million, they are pliable to threats, they also are extremely clannish(the biradari system is how they got converted in teh first place) and will listen to the leaders. Edmund Blunt outlines the strategy in his old 1880s book on the need to cultivate the "Punjabi Mussalman" in order for the Queen (read West) to be in dominance over the Islamic world. Read of the previous attempts to Anglicize the Aga Khan etc. These futile attempts were given up once the demographic breakdown of the ummah was made. Aga Khanis are miniscule in number. So there you see the historical basis for supporting the twin towers of Islamic terrorism- KSA and TSP.

Further there is a need to understand the nature of Islamic "Zabardasti" rule in the region constituting West Pakistan. The head of the state was a Sultan, later Shah. The Provinces (Subah) and Districts (Zilla) had a three fold authority. There was the Subedar (military) commander, the revenue collector(usually a Hindu) and the Qazi(magistrate). The Subedar was always at the head of this triumvirate and had the military force to back his authority. Source: Irfan Habib in booklet on "Medieval India"

During British rule, the Collector/District Magistrate office was combined and a cantonment located in almost every district to provide back-up force. (Source: Hugh Tinker- India & Pakistan- A Political Analysis) In the Princely states the subedar became the daroga or police chief while the head was the Nawab, Wali or some such title..
My point is that military force was always required to administer these 'badlands' as the folks are not yet into even the 18th century let alone the Modern age. This is why theories of Djinn power etc surface. Westphalian state construct is too advanced for them. Even if there was no Partition, India would have to have military primacy in that region. This region was never integrated into sub-continental India from the Sultanate period as the central authority was expanding into India and spent itself when the British took over. This need for military force as a factor for development is not a new thing. Before the wild West was settled the US Army was running the show by stationing the troops and buliding the frontier forts settlements in the 19th century. It is only just before WWI that the US west was calm.

Pakistan is modern Islamic state with a small "m" implying it has put on an updated mask to put on a facade of being current. It is not a capital "M" which implies a whole set of ideologies- enlightenment, positivism and so on and so forth.
In the past the mask would drop ocassionally but after 1978 under Zia the mask is increasingly being cracked or broken off revealing the ugly truth. The Western press is now slowly realizing but the govts are still committed to the situation. As more Western people (US mainly) realize the truth and the "experts" are unfrocked for the charlatans they are, there is a chance that people will demand more accountability from their representatives in DC and that could lead to less support for this military "zabardasti" rule in TSP. Right now the US has only the bludgeon or bribe as a policy tool.</div>

11-12-2007, 11:32 PM

US will support Mushy even with close nose. US need access to Afghanistan, US is getting huge amount of logistics support from Pakistan. All food and other procurement for NATO forces stationed in Afghanistan is from Pakistan, which is major contributor and rest is from East Europe and Middle East countries. At this stage military mission is very important.

Question is whether Unkle should support Mushy or other puppet. I think Mushy was able to figure out that his days are numbered after BB and SD deal came into public, so he had increased ante, now his crown is well secured. For US, to place plan B at this stage will bring only uncertainty which will jeopardized Afghan mission. SD and US gov are releasing statement just to negate bad press they are getting. Currently, it looks like two different agenda are feeding news to media. It could be Democrats or Republican or some other power.
So for anyone to expect that Unkle will kick out Mushy because lack of democracy or fundoos is openly out in streets with open chest, need to think again.

Concern India, they should keep Army on alert and check military inventory.

11-12-2007, 11:54 PM

http://in.rediff.com/news/2007/nov/12pakemergency5.htm
'Emergency in Pak has activated terror cells in J&K'

11-13-2007, 04:42 AM

Bhutto placed under house arrest again QUOTELAHORE, Pakistan - Opposition leader Benazir Bhutto was placed under house arrest for the second time in four days to prevent her staging a march on Tuesday to protest emergency rule, police said. A close aide to the former prime minister said she would try to lead the 185-mile procession anyway.

The showdown intensified the political crisis engulfing Pakistan and further clouded the prospect of a pro-U.S. alliance against rising Islamic extremism forming between Bhutto and President Gen. Pervez Musharraf.
...........
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tupid--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/pakee.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='pakee.gif' />

11-13-2007, 09:23 AM

QUOTEhttp://www.brecorder.com/index.php?id=651125&currPageNo=1&query=&search=&term=&supDate=
Bureaucrats' farewell dinner for Prime Minister, spouse 
RECORDER REPORT
ISLAMABAD (November 13 2007): The country's top bureaucracy will host a farewell dinner for Prime Minister Shaukat Aziz and his wife Rukhsana Aziz in the Prime Minister House on Tuesday. Informed sources told Business Recorder that every federal secretary would contribute Rs 10,000 each for the dinner, of which share of their wives would be Rs 5,000.

They said that the secretaries would pay this amount to the Prime Minister House for making dinner arrangements. When contacted, one federal secretary confirmed that the bureaucracy is hosting a farewell dinner for the Prime Minister. He said secretaries committee would decide from which head this amount will be paid to the Prime Minister House
Islam and farewell party, why they are copying kuffir culture !!!!

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