http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/...,530129,00.html
A very interesting article. German article xlated to english. The article makes several interesting points but not even once thinks its important enough to mention that Obama is black and that actually might (just might) be a factor with white voters in the US of A.
I read somewhere before the Iowa primaries that Republicans said Obama was the guy to watch. How many amongst us think that, if nominated, Obama's race might give a significant advantage to Republicans ?
Question for US politics guroos -> Has anybody seen any surveys that analyzes the race factor in Obama's nomination ? Any surveys, interviews etc ? I am really curious to know
1. whether race is really a non-issue in Obama's case ?
2. whether race-as-a-factor has been debated in the open enough or is it something that just stays in the background - a dont-ask-dont-tell type thing ?
3. whether it has been debated plenty and the society has accepted a black man as a-ok for the top-post in western world.
1. whether race is really a non-issue in Obama's case ?
It is a issue, actually white votes are like Hindus votes in India. Not all votes based on race, but lot do. In Iowa, white votes was divided which gave Obama advantage, plus don't forget Independent are behind Obama, not traditional Democrats. If you count Hillary + Edwards (above 80% from registered democrats), it is much higher than Obama (which are some white, all Independent and all black). Black population is less than hispanic. Both votes as bulk.
Who are independent? Some are really independent, some just swing things, some are Republican in heart but don't like current Republican crop, or some are true republican, they want Obama to get ticket so that Republican can win election hands down.
USA had never elected woman as President, woman population is over 50%. Republicans are hell scare that Hillary had better chance to snatch election. Media is propping up Obama, Oprah and others are funding him.
2. whether race-as-a-factor has been debated in the open enough or is it something that just stays in the background - a dont-ask-dont-tell type thing ?
It is don't ask in open, behind curtain people express, as they did in New Hampshire.
3. whether it has been debated plenty and the society has accepted a black man as a-ok for the top-post in western world.
See both side are equally racist, if black are voting for Obama, they are calling it black pride but if white will vote for white candidate it will be called as racist. I think current bickering will harm democrats more. Obama openly challenging Bill Clinton, infact completely rail roading him will hurt him most. Look what happened to Al-Gore and Kerry. Edward is smart, he may end up with Vice President Ticket.
Read some comments here
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Kudos to Brian and team for doing double-duty.
Yeah!!!! Hillary beat Barak. I am thrilled. His wife's prescense in Nevada only reminded me more why I will NOT vote for him. Maybe if he got a divorce, ha ha... No, seriously, that man can't do anything but pick on others and steal their views. If this jr. senator could form his own opinion, he might have a shot.
Hopefully, not in my lifetime and I am in my 30s.
It's interesting to see the race develop on the Republican side. Almost scary. Are they channeling the current administration?
Can't wait to see the report. <!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin-rajesh_g+Jan 22 2008, 07:42 AM-->QUOTE(rajesh_g @ Jan 22 2008, 07:42 AM)<!--QuoteEBegin--> http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/...,530129,00.html
A very interesting article. German article xlated to english. The article makes several interesting points but not even once thinks its important enough to mention that Obama is black and that actually might (just might) be a factor with white voters in the US of A.
I read somewhere before the Iowa primaries that Republicans said Obama was the guy to watch. How many amongst us think that, if nominated, Obama's race might give a significant advantage to Republicans ?
Question for US politics guroos -> Has anybody seen any surveys that analyzes the race factor in Obama's nomination ? Any surveys, interviews etc ? I am really curious to know
1. whether race is really a non-issue in Obama's case ?
2. whether race-as-a-factor has been debated in the open enough or is it something that just stays in the background - a dont-ask-dont-tell type thing ?
3. whether it has been debated plenty and the society has accepted a black man as a-ok for the top-post in western world.
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There wont be talking about Obama.
There is a silent revival of civil rights movement right now in US.
SOme interviews with black show thay they think the time is right for a black in the WH. They now beleive that This is bigger than Obama
It is more to do with current strong liberal/environmentalist movement, or say what is fashionable.
But I think or strongly believe this is prop up by Rep, as they did before last election, they let gay marriage in Ma and Ca, later added issue for voting, walla everyone came out in bulk to vote against democrats.
Thats the thing. Obama's race seems to be in the blindspot or something that doesnt get debated properly out in the open.
Notice in the article a few things.
- the article explicitly talks about how hispanics wont vote for blacks but never talks about a significant amount of white population that wont vote for a black man.
- the article is from europe and talks about what the europe wants the 'modern america' to be -> a black america. i dont know how many european heads of state are minorities (let alone blacks) but still when it comes to doling out advice to other fellow whites the hope is for a black-america.
- the article talks about how older population and women dont like Obama but no mention whether Obama's race has anything to do with it.
- article mentions how Obama might be too early and then balances it with "or might be too late" and then spends an entire para trying to explain how he might be too late. Nothing on why he might be too early.
As a contrast consider Indian politics. In Guj elections people openly talk about the Patel factor. In UP elections people talk about Yadav factor and the brahmin-bahujan alliance. Almost as if there is nothing to be ashamed of but not so in white world it seems.
It might seem like something that maybe quite obvious to many - race as a factor that is. But what seems more interesting to me is race-as-a-factor-in-public-discourse. I cant really lay my finger on this but this whole issue in the blindspot is interesting. Something to keep an eye on while Democratic primaries progress.
Black Nationalists state that when two whiteys argue, that is the time to listen because there is some nuance of white discourse to be learned.
It seems that europeans may be turning the black man into their mascot. It's been noted that the Nazis never turned the Jews into mascots unlike what Americans did to Natives and (for a while) Blacks. European learning curve may be advancing.
Request to admins, if possible can we please have a US-elections thread ? Or a Barrack Obama thread ? Whichever is more convenient. TIA..
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In the meantime sorry to use this thread but can somebody please explain the subtleties here ?
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=was...id=a86pY4CBoF0U
Very credible.
Yesterday, I was talking to small group and they openly said, if Obama gets democrats ticket which is now very very remote, they will either stay away during this election or will register as republican. Privately people are talking, but media is ignoring because of recent backlash against some radio host.
We have to see how big defeat is. Currently Democrats
1/20-22- Zogby
Obama 43%, Clinton 25%, Edwards 15%, Kucinich <1%, Gravel <1%, Someone else 4%, Not sure 14%
African Americans, a group that made up slightly more than half of the sample, backed Obama by a margin of 65% to Clintonâs 16%. Eighteen percent of black voters said they were undecided. Clinton did better among white voters, getting 33% support to 32% for Edwards. Obama lagged at just 18% among whites.
link
Not sure 14% - depends on race will go either to Obama or Clinton. I wonât be surprised if Edwards voters decides to votes for Clinton.
<!--QuoteBegin-rajesh_g+Jan 23 2008, 02:31 PM-->QUOTE(rajesh_g @ Jan 23 2008, 02:31 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->Interesting take - how credible is this ?
http://thehill.com/dick-morris/how-clinton...2008-01-23.html
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Rajesh: Dick Morris successfully managed Clinton's '96 election as a backroom consultant. Backroom as he didn't get along with others on Clinton team then - Carville among them. Around '97 or '98 he was caught on tape sucking toes of some prostitute in some DC hotel and that was end of his career as a democratic consultant. He's been a regular feature on Fox News since then. He's been right on the money for very elections since - 2000 Republican Presidential primary, Kerry-Bush '04 and every big congress/senate elections since; this when his skeptics (including moi) thought he was talking through his hat. I've since started paying close attention to whatever he says.
Hillary's already skipping SC to focus on the big 22 for Super Tuesday (Feb 5th). Bill's working in SC and he does have a pretty good rapport within the African-American community going back atleast 20 years. And mind you SC is still the (only?) state that hoists the Confederate flag on it's state capital. So, Obama has a pretty uphill task ahead of him in SC despite everything else.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/politics/elec...l-clinton_N.htm
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Voting for president along racial and gender lines "is understandable, because people are proud when someone who they identify with emerges for the first time," Bill Clinton told a Charleston audience Wednesday while campaigning for his wife, a role he has played all week.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Bill Clinton said black civil rights leaders Andrew Young and John Lewis have defended his wife. "They both said that Hillary was right and the people who attacked her were wrong and that she did not play the race card, but they did," he said.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->"As far as I can tell, neither Senator Obama nor Hillary have lost votes because of their race or gender," he said. "They are getting votes, to be sure, because of their race or gender â that's why people tell me Hillary doesn't have a chance of winning here."<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I was told by some people that they will sit it out if Obama isnt on the ticket. They feel that Obama didnt bring race nito the picture. It was the Clintons especially Bill who is not the candidate. Really slick of him. So if Obama who chose the high ground gets railroaded they will let the Democrats feel the pain.
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->I was told by some people that they will sit it out if Obama isnt on the ticket.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
In '92 Blacks had threatened to boycott Clinton after the Sister Soluja incident. And another incident where he played golf in a white only club.
Jesse Jackson I think led on this front then. So Slick Willy's been there and done that.
It's deja-vu all over again with the '<i>it's economy, stupid!</i>' mantra.
current poll SC
Democrats â South Carolina
1/21-23 1/20-22
Obama
39% 43% (only 10% white supporting, rest how they will vote behind curtain)
Clinton
24% 25% (only 30% blacks supporting her but behind curtain it may drop)
Edwards
19% 15% (he is prefered by 40% white and 10% black)
<i>âObama maintains a 15-point lead, but he has dipped under 40%, losing ground, including a few points among African Americans. And nearly one in five African Americans is now undecided with just three days to go until the election. Still, his is a commanding lead with just three days to go.</i>
<b>Confirmed: Barack Obama Practiced Islam</b><!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->All this matters, for if Obama once was a Muslim, he is now what Islamic law calls a murtadd (apostate), an ex-Muslim converted to another religion who must be executed. Were he elected president of the United States, this status, clearly, would have large potential implications for his relationship with the Muslim world.
In sum: Obama was an irregularly practicing Muslim who rarely or occasionally prayed with his step-father in a mosque. This precisely substantiates my statement that he "for some years had a reasonably Muslim upbringing under the auspices of his Indonesian step-father."
Therefore, what MMfA calls the "Obama-Muslim falsehood" is in fact confirmed by both articles as truthful and accurate.
Calling this a falsehood is in itself a falsehood.
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<b>Obama ambush underway</b><!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Even so, it has all the earmarks of a smear job. It also raises another more important concern -- which has led to the dramatic increase in Secret Service protection. It would take only one crazed Islamicist to regard him as an "apostate," or fallen-away Muslim, which fanatics consider far, far worse than being an infidel.
Then there are the usual paranoids, like a reader who posted on my blog last week that Obama was a front for Osama. This underscores the challenge everywhere, that as the "globalization" of societies spreads, a lot of unevolved, uninformed and violent people remain among us. Thank heavens the Secret Service is out in force.
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Now race will be interesting to watch.
So they are pretending that Muslims will be offended by Obama!!!
Obama wins South Carolina. He needed to win this. Why is Edwards still around?
Obama got 80% of black vote. White vote was a three-way split between the candidates.
Edward tried to join hand with Obama, according to report, if Obama becomes President he will offer attorney General to Edward. Other report says Obama rejected Edwards handshake.
After last debate, Edward and Clinton had chat, according to report Clinton had asked Edward to stay in race, because all anti Clinton vote will go to Edward and it will help Clinton to reduce Obama delegate kitty.
Edward is working as spoiler, In SC because of Edward's Obama missed around 6-7 delegates.
Edward will be king maker.
Far left Kennedy are endorsing Obama, it will help Clinton in North American states.
All is going according to Clinton game plan, Tuesday Florida win will prove, what Clinton had done. More than 48 super delgates are in Clinton pocket.
In the overall race for the nomination, Clinton has 249 delegates, followed by Obama with 167 delegates and Edwards with 58. A total of 2,025 delegates are needed to secure the Democratic nomination.
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