From The Telegraph, 24 july 2008
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Sangh whiplash for BJPÂ
SANJAY K. JHA
Â
New Delhi, July 23: The RSS leadership is learnt to have conveyed to the BJP that the party had âshoddily planned and executedâ its response to the trial of strength in the Lok Sabha, sources said.
The BJP has also been told by the Sangh that it does not share the partyâs perception that the Congress was the loser at the end of the day.
The RSS has expressed displeasure over the involvement of so many BJP MPs in cross-voting and abstention. The Sangh also felt that the involvement of BJP leaders in the unseemly currency spectacle inside the House would not go down well with the people.
Extremely guarded, BJP leaders said the RSS message was conveyed at âthe highest levelâ but declined to name anyone. âApart from the political fallout of the Congress victory, what has annoyed the RSS is the regular occurrence of financial scandals involving BJP members. Though no swayamsevak is involved now, the larger question of the partyâs image is definitely involved,â a party leader said.
The BJP is insisting that the events surrounding the trust vote and the victory had ruined the Prime Ministerâs image. But the RSS thinks that the BJPâs credentials as âa party with a differenceâ lay in tatters after the vote.
âAll the talk of a cadre-based and disciplined party sounds hollow as such scandals involving BJP leaders crop up every now and then,â a party leader associated with the RSS said.
The RSS believes that the BJP, reluctant initially to oppose the nuclear deal, was confused in the beginning and woke up late with plans to topple the government.
It also feels that the BJP parliamentary party, which should have ensured that all its MPs were intact, took matters for granted and focused on media bluster, instead of guarding its flanks. âThat so many MPs broke away indicates that the BJP leaders were most purchasable,â an RSS source said.
The RSS is also upset because of the political loss suffered by the BJP. A section of the party leadership was trying to woo BSP leader Mayavati till a few days ago but she has now emerged as the most potent face of the third front. The Congress, on the other hand, has bagged a valuable catch in Mulayam Singh Yadav.
The sources said the BJPâs desperation to salvage some face by announcing a countrywide agitation came after the RSS expressed its displeasure.
The Sangh is also worried about the implications of an aggressive propaganda by the Congress on the nuclear deal. The Congress is presenting the deal as a case of Indiaâs empowerment, which challenges the Sangh parivarâs plank of robust nationalism.
A view that the BJP should not have stood alongside communists also worries the RSS leadership.
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Could be a bit of psy-ops.
See the similarities with earlier HT psy-ops. Both authors don't name a single source, place, event or date. Cherry pick a line or two from blog or forum an build an article around it attributing to secret insider sources. It's easy living.
<!--QuoteBegin-ramana+Jul 24 2008, 09:48 PM-->QUOTE(ramana @ Jul 24 2008, 09:48 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->From The Telegraph, 24 july 2008
<!--QuoteBegin--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Sangh whiplash for BJPÂ
SANJAY K. JHA
Â
New Delhi, July 23: The RSS leadership is learnt to have conveyed to the BJP that the party had âshoddily planned and executedâ its response to the trial of strength in the Lok Sabha, sources said.
The BJP has also been told by the Sangh that it does not share the partyâs perception that the Congress was the loser at the end of the day.
..................
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Could be a bit of psy-ops.
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What psy ops Ramana? A lot of BJP well wishers will feel the same. Put it simply, if BJP were to have a political future it should get rid of the buffoon called LK Advani.
07-25-2008, 12:59 AM
(This post was last modified: 07-25-2008, 01:09 AM by ramana.)
sroy, The psy-ops is from Telegrah which is Congress supporter owned paper. They might be playing up the RS-BJP differences to portray weakness. I agree that the loss was tactical but witch hunting could turn it into a strategic loss.
The fundamental issues were there were no political operators in BJP minding the flock. Nor in the coalition parties. The reports show petty grudges and local politics drove the defections on the NDA side. UPA was able to accomodate its supporters like SP and JMM which shows their mastery of tactics and could blowback strategically by dragging MMS into mud like the "Ashwathama hatha kunjera" did to Dharmaraja.
A cat fight inside BJP is the last thing they need to have. The better option is to have dispassionate lessons learned exercise and implement them. BTW this is the third time they lost a confidence motion. So there is something fundamentally wrong. what is it?
<!--QuoteBegin-ramana+Jul 25 2008, 12:59 AM-->QUOTE(ramana @ Jul 25 2008, 12:59 AM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->sroy, The psy-ops is from Telegrah which is Congress supporter owned paper. They might be playing up the RS-BJP differences to portray weakness. I agree that the loss was tactical but witch hunting could turn it into a strategic loss.
The fundamental issues were there were no political operators in BJP minding the flock. Nor in the coalition parties. The reports show petty grudges and local politics drove the defections on the NDA side. UPA was able to accomodate its supporters like SP and JMM which shows their mastery of tactics and could blowback strategically by dragging MMS into mud like the "Ashwathama hatha kunjera" did to Dharmaraja.
A cat fight inside BJP is the last thing they need to have. The better option is to have dispassionate lessons learned exercise and implement them. BTW this is the third time they lost a confidence motion. So there is something fundamentally wrong. what is it?
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Ramana,
BJP really need to go on with intensive street level campaign with copies of Hyde Act and 123. Please try to gauge the general mood. A slim majority (urban and young...they have influence in media, academia, industry) believes UPA's move is in right direction. Just because MMS has assured them. LKA has lost their confidence.
MMS has skirted a debate doesn't mean others cannot put these texts for public discourse.
MMS might say "we'll maintain minimum credible deterrence" and "there is no constraints on us for further testing". I have perfect reasons to believe him and I'll not be surprised if Americans say so. Only thing is we do not the "minimum" and what is allowed to be tested. "Ashwathama hatha kunjera" indeed.
What if MMS has agreed to limit the Indian arsenal to 12kt-15kt fission devices? And Unkil nodded that we can continue to test similar stuff in future? We become the regional satraps. Chincomms are checked, alliance with West is assured, business continues to flow. Everyone is happy. Fizzled thermonuclear test in 1998 might be a non-issue in such a scenario.
But what if we need to enter CAR of our own to tap resources, against Russian and Chinese opposition (count the Americans in then)? Or if we, after 15-20 years of sustained growth, reach the economic endurance to sustain conventional warfare to wrest back PoK? Or if our relation with the West deteriorates?
We'll need the big bomb then. If not for Anglo-Saxon great game, but at least for our version of the Great Game. Fortunately, they call it 'Akhand Bharat' and they know they need the big bomb precisely for that. Unfortunately they have failed to explain it to a larger constituency. And hence the lost opportunity for LKA.
Thatastu!
You have said the things much better than I have said. This is the reasons for the big bomb. Do you recall jaswant Singh's book on National security and he first idenitifed energy security as a National Security component and ABV's speech in Khazakistan? Can I x-post your ideas in BR ? It will be inthe Great Game thread after you permission.
And have you read books by Mr Benoy Kumar Sarkar? They are in Google books as pdfs.
<!--QuoteBegin-ramana+Jul 25 2008, 10:47 PM-->QUOTE(ramana @ Jul 25 2008, 10:47 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->Thatastu!
You have said the things much better than I have said. This is the reasons for the big bomb. Do you recall jaswant Singh's book on National security and he first idenitifed energy security as a National Security component and ABV's speech in Khazakistan? Can IÂ x-post your ideas in BR ? It will be inthe Great Game thread after you permission.
And have you read books by Mr Benoy Kumar Sarkar? They are in Google books as pdfs.
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Sure Ramana, X post by all means. Actually skimmed through Sarkar's on Asiatic Mentality, I don't remember the title, I disagree with him over is reading of the Chinese and left the book half way through. Need to locate that book again.
I'm going through Sarila's work, will post soon in the Great Game thread. Good reminder about ABV speech, again my complain is that ABV (he can write even if retired) and LKA need to put these common lingo that can be understood by their constituencies.
<!--QuoteBegin-ramana+Jul 24 2008, 07:29 AM-->QUOTE(ramana @ Jul 24 2008, 07:29 AM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->sroy, The psy-ops is from Telegrah which is Congress supporter owned paper. They might be playing up the RS-BJP differences to portray weakness. I agree that the loss was tactical but witch hunting could turn it into a strategic loss.
The fundamental issues were there were no political operators in BJP minding the flock. Nor in the coalition parties. The reports show petty grudges and local politics drove the defections on the NDA side. UPA was able to accomodate its supporters like SP and JMM which shows their mastery of tactics and could blowback strategically by dragging MMS into mud like the "Ashwathama hatha kunjera" did to Dharmaraja.
A cat fight inside BJP is the last thing they need to have. The better option is to have dispassionate lessons learned exercise and implement them. BTW this is the third time they lost a confidence motion. So there is something fundamentally wrong. what is it?
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BJP misses Pramod Mahajan. he was a master in political hustling and he could keep in check people like IBN/NDTV Saradepesai
Good news on the UP front. A lot of ex BJP leaders are returning to BJP fold.
http://howrah.org/india_news/20967.html
Homecoming of leaders in UP begins
BY AMITA VERMA
LUCKNOW
Aug 1: It seems like the proverbial silver lining in the sky and for the BJP in Uttar Pradesh, there is finally something to look up to.
A number of party leaders, who had left the BJP some years ago, mainly due to infighting and factionalism, are returning to the party fold. Though factionalism and infighting still prevails in the party, these leaders feel that the BJP still has internal democracy and offers room for all.
The current crisis in J&K is a good opportunity for the BJP to fish in the troubled water and consolidate its position particularly by trying to unify the Hindu voters. Unfortunately, it is a divided house and most of the important leaders are busy handling the MP bribing case, with all its holes and loopholes. It only shows that the present leadership is a divided lot incapable of fixing its priorities. The return of some former members into the party fold in UP is out of their necessity for political survival. The emergence of BJP has greatly changed the character of politics in that State and so it is best to get under the umbrella of big and organised parties.
All must have noticed that the general public is not very apprehensive of the HYDE Act or the Nuclear Deal. This is precisely the reason why no public demonstration has been organised on a nation wide scale. In fact, the political parties who oppose the deal on the floor of the parliament or before the microphone are fully aware that the issue is a non starter as far as the ordinary citizen is concerned. Therefore, they have so far not called for any Bharat Bundh or any such direct action. Let us hope in the next few months the BJP is able to revitalise itself and play a more purposeful role as a major and responsible political party.If the present state continues, I am afraid it will not be able to play any major role in the formation of the next government or so that matter in the governance of the Nation for the next five years.
<!--QuoteBegin-ravish+Aug 5 2008, 08:26 PM-->QUOTE(ravish @ Aug 5 2008, 08:26 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->The current crisis in J&K is a good opportunity for the BJP to fish in the troubled water and consolidate its position particularly by trying to unify the Hindu voters. Unfortunately, it is a divided house and most of the important leaders are busy handling the MP bribing case, with all its holes and loopholes. It only shows that the present leadership is a divided lot incapable of fixing its priorities. The return of some former members into the party fold in UP is out of their necessity for political survival. The emergence of BJP has greatly changed the character of politics in that State and so it is best to get under the umbrella of big and organised parties.
All must have noticed that the general public is not very apprehensive of the HYDE Act or the Nuclear Deal. This is precisely the reason why no public demonstration has been organised on a nation wide scale. In fact, the political parties who oppose the deal on the floor of the parliament or before the microphone are fully aware that the issue is a non starter as far as the ordinary citizen is concerned. Therefore, they have so far not called for any Bharat Bundh or any such direct action. Let us hope in the next few months the BJP is able to revitalise itself and play a more purposeful role as a major and responsible political party.If the present state continues, I am afraid it will not be able to play any major role in the formation of the next government or so that matter in the governance of the Nation for the next five years.
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Problem is not about the BJP but it is the ruling alliance which has lost all the 10 state elections. It does not have a majority in the house and people have lost hopes regarding price rise and governance. Do they need Bharat Bundh to show to the people what is happening to the country
BJP could lose MP, Rajasthan and Chattisgarh and we are back to square one.
<!--emo&  --><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteBegin-kharavela+Aug 7 2008, 12:56 AM-->QUOTE(kharavela @ Aug 7 2008, 12:56 AM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->BJP could lose MP, Rajasthan and Chattisgarh and we are back to square one.
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What makes you think so?
Pl submit any plausible explanation you have for your statement.
Just making an outlandish statement will do no good to you or to forum.
Thanx in anticipation.
The govts in MP, Rajasthan and Chattisgarh have been in power for a while which means there's this caution about anti-incumbency. Besides, not sure as to situation on ground in Rajasthan especially after the two recent Gujjar agitations.
<!--QuoteBegin-kharavela+Aug 6 2008, 07:26 AM-->QUOTE(kharavela @ Aug 6 2008, 07:26 AM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->BJP could lose MP, Rajasthan and Chattisgarh and we are back to square one.
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so?
so what?
What I was trying to say is that we have been happy about how the Congress has lost 10 state elections in a row.
There have been reports of elections in Rajasthan, Chattisgarh and MP being very close.
In fact in MP, the reputation of the govt is that it is very corrupt.
Though the BJP will win in Delhi and do well in J &K, it has to win at least two out of the three states I have mentioned. Otherwise the hopes of NDA coming to power become bleak and the 2009 might become the most fractured mandate ever and the pseudo secularists will come to power again.
BJP knows about the problems in MP and knows that the other two states are also up in the air. They are most likely to drop some of the sitting MLAs, Gujarat style.
The Amarnath and the terrorists attacks and inflation also provide conducive environment for the BJP. However, if because of anti incumbency, BJP loses a couple of the three states I mentioned, we are not in good position for 2009 elections.
One thing that might work for BJP is if BSP increases vote share in these states. So far inspite of the hype, BSP has performed poorly in Gujarat, HP and Karnataka.
But MP is close to UP and part of the Hindi belt. So we should be praying that Maywati takes an additional 5% of Dalit votes from Congress. If that happens, BJP will win and we will be happy. :-)
<!--QuoteBegin-kharavela+Aug 7 2008, 03:47 PM-->QUOTE(kharavela @ Aug 7 2008, 03:47 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin--><b>
What I was trying to say is that we have been happy about how the Congress has lost 10 state elections in a row.</b>
There have been reports of elections in Rajasthan, Chattisgarh and MP being very close.
In fact in MP, the reputation of the govt is that it is very corrupt.
<b>
Though the BJP will win in Delhi and do well in J &K, it has to win at least two out of the three states I have mentioned. Otherwise the hopes of NDA coming to power become bleak and the 2009 might become the most fractured mandate ever and the pseudo secularists will come to power again.
</b>
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The road is very long and it will take a long time for a full majority.
By that most of the damage is already done
This is the most critical period in Indian history when the soul of India has to be preserved.
Indian civlization may be wiped out in a few decades if things are not corrected.
I agree with that. The 2009 elections will be very crucial. If Cong + Mulayam + Lalu+ DMK + CPM comes to power, future of India is not looking good.
The spirit nationalists have shown in Jammu is an encouraging sign.
"I thought the Prime Minister's speech would have a direct or indirect reference to the cash-for-vote scandal. Although there was a mention of the Amarnath controversy, I would have been satisfied if there was a mention of this controversy too," Advani told reporters after a flag-hoisting ceremony at his residence here.
BJP President Rajnath Singh took a dig at the Prime Minister for stating that his government was committed to eradicating unemployment.
"Slogans like garibi hatao (remove poverty) and "eradicate unemployment" can win elections by misleading the people. But to build a nation one needs strong will-power. PM should awaken his will-power through his actions," he said.
http://indiatoday.digitaltoday.in/index.ph...d=1§ionid=4
Things not looking good for BJP in TN. They had been relying on AIADMK and now AIADMK is tilting towards the Left and has said she has no issues wih Mayawati as PM.
Without allies in TN, AP and poor performance in UP, the chances of BJP coming to power in 2009 is low.
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