Christian Subversion And Missionary Activities - 5

agnivayu · 10-25-2008, 08:22 PM

Great Article from pravda. I always felt a little uneasy with the Christian notion of eating the flesh and drinking the blood of Jesus. Although it's simulated now, it was probably an early form of cannibalism.

What we have that the Romans didn't is flow of information. Everybody knows what the Christian are up to and people know that many Christians themselves have abandoned Christianity due to it's primitive backward nature (especially in Europe).

Great link to Hitler and the Church. Proves without a doubt the Nazi murder of Jews was done through Christian motivations (Mein Kamf is a very similar to Martin Luther's anti-semitic rants).

The Nazi movement served the Hindu well (indirectly), when one White Christian bombed another, they weakened each other, thus freeing Hindus from the oppressive rule of racist White Christian Brits.

I have read news articles and comments on various western papers (like the Times, Guardian etc) full of hate against Hindus (due to Orissa). If you need fodder to attack the Christian racists who attack us on caste (and there is plenty of that), point out that 10-15 million Gypsies are the untouchables of Europe under their age old caste system. Also point out that many European last names are caste names, eg. Harry Potter (potter caste), Schwarzenegger (Blacksmith caste), Farmer, Fool (Jester caste), smith etc..

10-26-2008, 12:06 AM

http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/asiapcf/10/2...n.ap/index.html
Vatican suspends bishop who adopted woman, 26 <!--emo& Big Grin

--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' />
QUOTENEW DELHI, India (AP) -- The Vatican has suspended a Roman Catholic bishop in southern India after he adopted a 26-year-old woman, a senior church official said Saturday.

Bishop John Thattungal's conduct will be investigated by a three-member committee of bishops.

Bishop John Thattungal, 58, will be barred from performing any religious or administrative duties until a formal inquiry into his conduct is completed, said the Rev. Stephen Alathara, a spokesman for the Kerala Catholic Bishops' Council, in a telephone interview from the southern Indian city of Kochi.

Alathara said the bishop's adoption of the woman earlier this year had upset other priests in the Kochi diocese.

"The majority of the priests were unhappy and asked for his resignation," he said, adding that the Vatican ordered the suspension on Thursday.

He said there are questions surrounding the legality of the adoption because the woman is not a minor

but lovefest is not over. Indian govt had closed there eyes. No woman right orgainzation are screaming in front of TV. No babu are trying to protect woman.

ravish · 10-26-2008, 11:56 AM

The women in question has not yet showed her disinclination not to be in company of the bishop.If, the Govt or the media questons her arrangement of partnership,it will be a direct intrusion in her privacy.

Husky · (This post was last modified: 10-26-2008, 05:43 PM by Husky.)

QUOTE(ravish @ Oct 26 2008, 11:56 AM)The women in question has not yet showed her disinclination not to be in company of the bishop.If, the Govt or the media questons her arrangement of partnership,it will be a direct intrusion in her privacy.
[right][snapback]89460[/snapback][/right]Great comedic timing.
The christo media and christo-controlled laws/govt of India do not show similar consideration to women who attempted Sati (or to the family and community of women who committed Sati). So if the christo media (the government has no call to intervene) now intrudes on the privacy and personal choice of a christian woman it would make a change for once.

Personally, being a Hindoooo, I don't care if this bishop has a whole harem of christian women: if they're all okay with it and don't intend on having a disproportionate number of cannibal lambs, it doesn't affect me.
But this is an issue that shakes the church. And it's no small matter when the church shakes. Just be happy they haven't burnt her 'for having bewitched one of their gawdly men', eh?

Bodhi · (This post was last modified: 10-26-2008, 05:06 PM by Bodhi.)

For Ravishji ^

===

E-mail, Francois Gauthier

QUOTEFrom: fgautier@
To: joymathews44@
CC:
Subject: FW: Murder of Innocent Christians in Orissa
Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 10:16:32 +0530

Mr Mathews,

I have asked my lawyer, to file de defamation case against you for talking about Krishna the way you do. Do you realize that many Christians in India such as you, are practicing an aggressive, insulting, proletyzing brand of Christianity which was prevalent in Europe in the 19th century, but is no more today as Westerners have become much more open to other religions and can enter a temple, even if they are staunch Christians, without feeling they are committing a sin? I am also going to forward your mail to as many Hindu groups as possible and see if we can track you down and find where you are and who you are.

Francois GautierÂ Â

From: Joy Mathews [mailto:joymathews44@]
Sent: 24 October 2008 19:48
To: fgautier@
Subject: Murder of Innocent Christians in Orissa

Â I have read ur article in Indian Express. Why you are justifying the killings of innocent dalit Christians in orissa ?How can u justify the gang rape ofÂ a helpless nun by the so called Hindu fanatics ????
i can't find any good thing Hindu religion or culture . it is full of ignorance , greed and selfishness . If u are interested in smells and bells then go to Eastern Orthodox Christianity.

IÂ usedÂ to wonder about the magnificiand Cathedrals of Europe andÂ Russia .
Can u any hindu temple with even half the grandure !!!!!!!!!!!

Lord Krishna is a **. He * even his mother ...That'sÂ his (hindu ) legacy.
He cheated Karna in Mahabharatha battle . A

Hidus are the supreme cowards . Why the psuedopatriotic hindus of India needed British help to end the 1000 year Muslim ruleÂ ?????

Sikhs(Punjabi) and marathi are theÂ ones who resisted muslims !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If they get money they will sell their mothers also - that's the Hindu tradition

Western scholars used to referÂ india as the seat of "Wisdom of the East"

Middle East (Levent) and Eastern Europe is the so called EastÂ Â Â not India.

india is the land of fools and cowards

South Indian (Dravidian ) customs are next only to African religious practice( worshipping ancestors , monkeys ,rats , flys ,snakes , stones )

Its our misfortune to live in a country full of ignorance , poverty and treachery .

Matha Amrithananda mai is a lower cast prostitute . Ask someone about her early life ?
Why u EuropeansÂ <snapped>

Husky · (This post was last modified: 10-26-2008, 06:23 PM by Husky.)

^ Bodhi's full post
QUOTE(Bodhi @ Oct 26 2008, 05:04 PM)E-mail, Francois Gauthier

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTEFrom: fgautier@
To: joymathews44@
CC:
Subject: FW: Murder of Innocent Christians in Orissa
Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 10:16:32 +0530

Mr Mathews,
I have asked my lawyer, to file de defamation case against you for talking about Krishna the way you do.
[...]
I am also going to forward your mail to as many Hindu groups as possible and see if we can track you down and find where you are and who you are.
[...]
Francois GautierÂ
[right][snapback]89467[/snapback][/right]</div>Francois Gautier shouldn't bother wasting his time tracking the faithful down, I've read far worse online from other christians in India. This is nothing in the comparison. One can't be tracking them all down and suing them all for doing what comes only natural to them. They said just as horrid things about the Gods of the Germanic and Nordic people, and the Gods of the Hellenes and Romans and everyone else. (Things I will not repeat here - or anywhere actually. For those who want to know how christians today are as foulmouthed as the zombies that were possessed by christianism earlier, this page on the conversion of Iceland contains an example, in a christoterrorist poem, that I think I linked to once before.)
Christian intolerance is never-ending. Ban the babble and wave christianism away and problem solved: the zombies become human again.

By the way, since christians are compulsive liars, everything bad they say about my Gods and my people turn out to be compliments. But - seen as how I hate being in debt - I always return the favour anyway by telling the truth about their terrifying, bloodthirsty-though-fictional gawd/non-existent jeebus. What can I say, they should have let sleeping dogs lie.

But in case Monsieur Gautier is determined to find this faithful entity anyway: Joy tends to be a woman's name as far as I know. I could be totally wrong of course, me being non-Anglisi. In any case, unless he knows more than the email excerpt reveals, he may have to cast his net wider to find the waste-of-time.

**acharya** · 10-26-2008, 09:15 PM

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27380721/

QUOTE
India's hidden fragility
In a country desperate to be seen as a stable, democratic world power, the violence is a window into India's hidden fragility, its sometimes-dangerous political climate and the fierce historical divisions buried in its vast diversity.

India is more than 80 percent Hindu but its 1.1 billion people include all of the world's major religions, a caste system of near-impossible complexity, colossal divides of wealth and poverty, and, by some estimates, more than 2,000 ethnic groups.

"If you look at Africa, you don't see this kind of diversity, if you look at all of Europe, you don't see this kind of diversity," said Swami Agnivesh, a Hindu intellectual and liberal social activist. When it comes to India's continued existence: "Sometimes I think it's a miracle."

A Christian victim of violence from Hindu hard-liners holds a child at a relief camp in Bhubaneshwar, India, on Monday, Oct. 13.
Trouble can seem inevitable. In just the past couple weeks violence has ranged from the northeastern state of Assam, where at least 50 people have died in ethnic clashes, to the central state of Madhya Pradesh state, where three people were killed in religious riots after a Hindu procession passed through a Muslim neighborhood.

Then there is Orissa's Kandhamal district, where widespread trouble began after the Aug. 24 killing of Swami Laxmanananda Saraswati, a hard-line Hindu leader who rose to prominence in the area by advocating that Christian converts return to Hinduism.

Police blamed Maoist guerrillas for the killing, though it's unclear why they would have targeted him.

But Hindu militants quickly turned on local Christians, setting fire to a Christian orphanage and attacking churches and Christian-owned shops and homes. A nun accused a Hindu mob of raping her. At least 32 people have been killed, tens of thousands have fled their homes and thousands are believed still to be hiding in Orissa's thick forests.

'Our culture is being attacked'
"This is a kind of cultural invasion," Gauri Shankar Rath, a top official in the Orissa state VHP, the umbrella organization of Hindu nationalists, said in a telephone interview. "Our culture is being attacked."

Missionaries dismiss such accusations. And conversion does offer worldly benefits: For the low-caste, there's a partial escape from the stigmas of the Hindu caste system. Some missionaries also reach out to followers by building medical clinics and schools.

But as with much of India's violence, the obvious rationale for Kandhamal's bloodshed is really just one tile in a mosaic of discontent.

Much of the bitterness here is rooted in competition between two groups struggling at the bottom of India's social spectrum: the Panas and the Kandhas. The Panas are dalits, the group once known in India as "untouchables," while the Kandhas are tribals. The two have long competed for land, and more recently for jobs and school seats reserved by the government for the disadvantaged.

Over the past 20 years, the Kandhas have largely remained Hindu while many Panas have converted to Christianity, tangling religion into their conflict. Christians â even dalit converts â are not supposed to be eligible for reserved positions, but many Kandhas insist Pana Christian still find ways to get them. The Christians deny the accusation.

Militant group
Then there is politics.

Many of the attacks, victims say, were carried out by the Bajrang Dal, a militant group closely allied to the Bharatiya Janata Party, a Hindu nationalist political party that is part of Orissa's coalition government. The Hindu right-wing has long stirred up religious resentments as a way to shore up its voter base â and Orissa, as people here quickly point out, is expected to hold elections early next year.

"This isn't a war between Hindus and Christians," said Ugrasena Rana, a 32-year-old Hindu from Bujulimendi, a small village where a roaming gang burned down a half-dozen or so Christian homes after the swami was killed. "This is a war between the Bajrang Dal and the people who will not follow their commands."

In some ways, though, the Christians of Bujulimendi are lucky. Their Hindu neighbors have tried to protect them, and many Christian families now sleep in Hindu homes in case the mobs return.

The situation is grimmer outside the ransacked Baptist church, where villagers say their attackers included many people they knew.

That mob, about 50 people armed with knives, swords and clubs, stormed through the village, chanting the name of the Hindu god Ram as they destroyed the church and Christian homes.

**acharya** · (This post was last modified: 10-27-2008, 05:52 AM by acharya.)

FAKE CHRISTIAN HISTORY

http://www.amazon.com/gp/richpub/syltguide...DH6ANG66PQR5T4X

The Basics

Here are some books help you get started with world history.

A Little History of the World This gem of a book "for children of all ages" is an ideal first pass through world history. Get your bearings here if your history is rusty. Highly recommended. The Victory of Reason: How Christianity Led to Freedom, Capitalism, and Western Success A great introduction. Debunks myths of the "Dark Ages" while showing that Christianity gave birth to freedom, and freedom led to the rise of Western civilization. Christianity on Trial: Arguments Against Anti-Religious Bigotry Defends Christianity on many topics such as slavery (the abolitionists were Christian) and the Crusades.

âº See products from this section at the bottom of the page

Science and the (alleged) Dark Ages

Now it is time to get a little more scholarly. 'The Victory of Reason' does an accessible job debunking myths of the Dark Ages, but also check out these more scholarly works. Medieval Europe: A Short History is my favorite book on Medieval history (it is expensive, so buy it used). Europe after Rome: A New Cultural History 500-1000 is also excellent.

Sailing from Byzantium: How a Lost Empire Shaped the World The Roman Empire only fell in the West. The explicitely Christian Byzantine empire stood for another 1000 years after the fall of Rome, and preserved and even advanced upon Greek and Roman learning. Follow that up with A Short History of Byzantium if you are still interested in the Byzantine Empire.

Modern scholarship shows that Christianity led to the development of science (with the help of Greek thought). It took the conception of a rational God who created a rational, ordered universe to make scientific study meaningful. Modern historians have shown that science emerged in the Middle Ages, contrary to what prior generations have claimed. The Soul of Science: Christian Faith and Natural Philosophy (Turning Point Christian Worldview Series) An scholarly but still accessible introduction. Follow it up with the more nuanced, but more scholarly, Science and Religion, 400 B.C. to A.D. 1550: From Aristotle to Copernicus.

âº See products from this section at the bottom of the page

Theories on the Rise of the West

A few scholars such as Kenneth Pomerantz and Thomas Gunder Frank have argued along the lines of Jared Diamond that Western Civilization only became so successfull because of fortunate geography (although read pages 407-411 of the paperback version of 'Guns, Germs, and Steel' and you'll see that Diamond is not a complete geographic determinist). In particular, they argue, access to North America gave Europe a wealth of raw materials that launched Europe past other powerful civilizations such as China.

The Wealth and Poverty of Nations: Why Some Are So Rich and Some So Poor "Culture makes all the difference." Landes argues and updated version of Max Weber's theory, which holds that the culture of the western world caused it to become so successful. Geography is important, but only one factor.

The Savage Wars of Peace MacFarlane notes that people generally compare Europe and China, but England was well ahead of the rest of Europe in terms of development. He looks at what makes England and Japan (another island nation) so unique. It is essential to get the paperback edition, because it has an epilogue which is a response to the geographic determinists listed above. You can also read the epilogue online at http://www.alanmacfarlane.com/TEXTS/savageintropb.pdf

Culture Matters: How Values Shape Human Progress A collection of essays by various social scientists. Basically updates Max Weber, although dissenters are included. The Protestant countries of northern Europe are the ones that developed the needed social captial to rise to prominance. For a more acessible account, see Trust: The Social Virtues and The Creation of Prosperity

The Great Divergence: China, Europe, and the Making of the Modern World Economy. The West rose because of an accident of geography. China is the once and future king.

âº See products from this section at the bottom of the page

Freedom and the Doctrine of Human Rights

The debate about the rise of the West can reduce to minutia in which both sides try to emphasize the merits of European versus Chinese technologies at various points in time. But think about our present day reality: no one would seriously argue that China, India, or other civilizations can overtake the west without adopting freedom and democracy. China's huge population makes it a global power, but until it gets freedom it will always be poorer and less succesful than the United States and Europe. So the debate about the technology of China versus the Europe is a non-starter. Europe was developing freedom and human rights, and China was not. It was inevitable that Europe would overtake China.

So the real debate is about the minutia of the doctrine of human rights, not the minutia of technology. Most histories of human rights only look at Enlightenment thinkers like John Locke and Thomas Hobbes, but the roots go much deeper. The French historian traced the shift in thinking about rights to William of Ockham (inventor of Ockham's razor), Tuck traces it back to Jean Gerson. But the cutting edge now recognizes that rights go back to the Catholic cannonists of the 13th century, hundreds of years before the secular Enlightenment.

How the Catholic Church Built Western Civilization has an accessible chapter that puts the history of human rights into layman's terms.

Natural Law, Laws of Nature, Natural Rights: Continuity And Discontinuity in the History of Ideas A scholarly but short book, which argues that the crucial shift in thinking about rights took place in the 14th century. A good introduction.

The Idea of Natural Rights: Studies on Natural Rights, Natural Law, and Church Law 1150 Â¿ 1625 (Emory University Studies in Law and Religion) Probably the defining book that settles the debate. Tierney shows that natural rights usage in the subjective sense predates Ockham. He convincingly demonstrates that the subjective use of natural rights emerged in commentary on Gratian's Decretum, which was written in 1140. Very dense, scholarly work.

**acharya** · 10-27-2008, 06:40 AM

I'm not sure whether the thesis of this book could best be summed up as, "Christianity isn't all that bad" or "Christianity has made the world the wonderful place it is today." That depends on whether you're trying to summarize the intended or actual thesis.

This purports to be basically a book of Christian apology, in a sense: not defending the faith's tenants, but defending the faith's acts. It rightly points out that there is a lot of criticism directed toward Christianity that, were it directed toward any other religion, would be construed as bigotry. That's true enough, and a fair criticism. On the other hand, the book seems to imply that the majority of contributions Christianity has made to civilization are positive - that the scales tip toward the good. That's fine and good, but it doesn't provide enough proof of that. We never get any idea if the people and groups in each chapter are exceptions to the rule, or the standard. I got the feeling that the authors didn't know either, but were trying to pass them off as the latter.

This is particularly noticeable when we consider the two topics conspicuously missing from the book: Christian anti-Semitism and Christian misogyny. The environment, democracy, and science all rightly get chapters, but nary a word about misogyny, and only lip-service to anti-Semitism ("Okay, okay, Luther was anti-Semitic, but look at all the good things he did!"). The closest thing to mentioning misogyny, on the other hand, is perhaps a reference to the (to use their woefully inadequate understatement) "unfortunate" Salem witch trials.

On the whole, I remain unconvinced of Christianity's virtues through the centuries. It's a human institution, filled with the hatred, bigotry, and stupidity common to all people.

Still, it did make me realize that condemning the Apostle Paul for his views on slavery is to use an anachronistic morality to judge him. This is a common theme in the book, and somewhat rightly so. We can't condemn society X for being cruel when it was no crueler than any other contemporary society, even if it is vastly more vicious than our own. We can comment on it, but it doesn't make them immoral.

Husky · (This post was last modified: 10-27-2008, 10:04 AM by Husky.)

Google ad I just came across:
QUOTEAnti-Christian Violence
Hope and aid for the persecuted church in OrissaWhy don't they just say it outright: "Give us money to kill more Hindoo Swamees"

Husky · (This post was last modified: 10-27-2008, 01:16 PM by Husky.)

Not sure if someone posted these here already:

1) Tamizh Nadu:
http://pseudosecularism.blogspot.com/2008/...to-besiege.html
'Baptising' Thiruvalluvar to 'besiege' the Hindus!

2) Karnataka:
http://satyabhashnam.blogspot.com/2008/10/...hindu-gods.html
via http://rajeev2004.blogspot.com/2008/10/fro...-sainthood.html
QUOTESaturday, October 11, 2008
Book by Christians abusing Hindu Gods
Following are the scanned images (by Deepak Kamat) from the book "Satyadarshini" circulated by Christian Missionaries in Mangalore to denigrate Hindu Religion and Gods. They have used very derogatory and dirty language for Hindu Gods.I don't read nor do I understand Kannadam. Am not feeling upto asking what it says, but it may be important.

(Look, the site is called "Om NamaH Shivaya defines my life" <!--emo& Smile

--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /> )

Husky · (This post was last modified: 10-27-2008, 07:03 PM by Husky.)

And

1. Entertainment:
http://www.christianaggression.org/item_di...S&id=1224125085
QUOTEHoly row over India's first woman saint
Posted October 15, 2008

K S Hari Kumar
October 16, 2008
Asia Times
Source Link

KOTTAYAM, India - Christians, who form 20% of the 32 million people living in the southern Indian state of Kerala, are celebrating Sunday's canonization of their beloved Sister Alphonsa, unaware of the controversies that surround the life of the first Indian woman to be elevated to sainthood.
[...]

Pulikkunnel said he studied in Bharananganam while Sister Alphonsa was still alive, and had heard stories of the sisters in the Franciscan Clarist convent ill-treating her. "These allegations still haunt many among the older generation,'' said Pulikkunnel, who is a Catholic reformist.

There were attempts by the Clarist congregation to oust Alphonsa, who suffered from several incurable diseases, and Pulikkunnel recalled watching the quiet, unremarkable cortege when she died aged just 36.
(She was so miraculous, she couldn't even cure herself... <img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/blink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='blink.gif' /> Unless we viewed such an uncommonly early death as the 'miracle'...)

"After she died her tomb slowly turned into a shrine and, from 1952 onwards, the money deposited by believers was sent to the Vatican through a specially appointed vicar,'' said Pulikkunnel. ''It has been said that around Rs 620 million [US$14 million] was collected from the shrine."

Corinne G Dempsey, a researcher on culture and world view in South India on behalf of the American Institute of Indian Studies, and author of Kerala Christian Sainthood, said miracles and hagiography alone are insufficient to proclaim a person as saint.

"Catholics who reside at the Vatican, who are potentially able to persuade those who make decisions about canonization, are from the Syrian community, an eastern rite within the Roman Catholic Church."

According to Dempsey, lobbying for official recognition and the politics of canonization depend on the strength or affluence of people in the community. "Organized support and popular appeal are important for the progression of a saint's campaign. What is often needed is normally a very time-consuming process and a certain amount of political clout from within the Vatican."

Conspicuously absent among Kerala's candidates for sainthood are representatives from the Latin rite, a group consisting mainly of coastal fishing communities converted by the Portuguese in the 16th century, she said. "Although Syrian Catholicism represents a non-mainstream and even slightly contentious tradition in the eyes of the Vatican, it is a segment of Kerala's Catholic population that possesses the economic and social clout typically not available to followers of its Latin counterpart."
(More of the evil christian casta system. Ewwww.
Look how Hindu Dharma is utterly different from christoterrorism: people from all Hindu backgrounds are revered as teachers and realised people.)

A conversation she had with the Latin Catholic bishop revealed that money and influence were determining factors in the elevation to sainthood, said Dempsey. "We [Latin Catholics] have plenty of saints up in heaven, we just don't have the money to canonize them."
2. Comment from http://rajeev2004.blogspot.com/2008/10/bew...-is-out-to.html
QUOTEwitan said...

Â Â The following is a link to the video connected to the news item âPolice failed to save me: Orissa nunâ on the website of Times of India, and telecast on TIMES NOW TV: http://broadband.indiatimes.com/toishowv...637462.cms
Â Â Noteworthy features of this TV telecast are:
Â Â 1. the woman (ostensibly the ânunâ who was allegedly ârapedâ) has âherâself (i.e., presuming it was a woman) unrecognizable by covering âherâ face with a scarf and large spectacles.
Â Â 2. The woman was reading from a prepared script in English. She appeared to have difficulty in reading it and pronouncing the words properly.
Â Â 3. The ânunâsâ public appearance comes immediately after the Supreme Court had refused to order a CBI inquiry into the ârapeâ and assault on a certain âFatherâ Chellan.
Â Â The first feature is reminiscent of the earlier NDTV âinterviewâ, with a person alleged to be the Maoist leader âSabyasachi Pandaâ, who claimed that Maoists murdered Swami Laxmanananda: the person shown as Panda had his head covered with a heavy cloth, and COULD NOT BE IDENTIFIED. The interview appeared to be FAKE, and meant to deflect suspicion for the murder away from prime suspects, the Christian âmissionariesâ. Now we have a repetition of the same stratagem, a woman claiming to be the allegedly raped ânunâ makes her appearance, and makes statements designed to cause trouble for Hindu organizations, Hindus in general, and the Orissa government.
Â Â Second, the woman appeared to be unable to speak Hindi or Oriya, and barely able to read out from a script written in English. If she did not know Oriya or Hindi, was she able to make herself understood by the Orissa police? Further, she was supposed to have been working to uplift the poor people in Orissa. How could she interact with them if she did not know Oriya or even Hindi? It leads one to ask, was the woman giving the public statement really the same as the allegedly raped ânunâ? Was the original woman with âFatherâ Chellan really a ânunâ, or was she something else? Has that original ânunâ been made to disappear? If I remember correctly, the original ânunâ did not say she was raped! Now, are the Christists producing a fake â or rather a fake raised to tbe power of 2 â who has been made to say she was raped?
Â Â Third, the sudden, unexpected public appearance of the woman and her statements, after the Supreme Court has rejected the plea for a CBI inquiry could be a ploy to create a public furore, thereby giving the UPA government an excuse to order a CBI inquiry.
Â Â I see the sequence of happenings as part of an international Christian conspiracy against India and Hindus. UPA is apparently one of the conspirators, and our country has become a dangerous place for HINDUS to live in! We have to find some ways to defend ourselves, and the first step, I feel, should be to oust the âUPAâ.Apparently christomedia in India sees fit to present these characters on TV, but will not allow similarly attired Hindus from making statements against Raoul Vinci aka Rahul Gandhi/Goonda who was also accused of raping some woman.
(And that while christians are famed for their holy occupation of lying all throughout history and all throughout the globe - only the christomedia can/wants to believe them.)

ravish · 10-27-2008, 04:09 PM

The current media coverage on the atrocities against Christians particularly in Orissa, the media presentation of the raped nun and the concern voiced by the Pope and the Christian world is quite out of proportion to the actual ground reality. In the past, many such aberrations have taken place on communal lines and many more are bound to take place in the future. Due to 200 years of slavery under the British, many of my countrymen are always respectful to the religion of the Emperor. Even after, sixty years of our existence as citizens of a free nation, due to our English education and Western ideas and thinking, we are prone to give very special treatment to the utterances of HH the Pope and his associates in India and elsewhere.

Yes it is a fact, that there have been communal clashes in Orissa, but there is nothing extraordinary about it. Such things happened in the past and there is no guarantee that such a thing will not happen in the future. We do not condone the violence or the rape of the nun. However, the fact remains that the extraordinary noise and media attention that it is receiving is simply due to the fact that the world media at large is dominated by the Christians .The case should be dealt with as a normal law and order problem and the investigations should be on the lines of normal criminal investigation. HH the Pope is paid to make noise in the appropriate forum for the protection of the Christians whom he represents.

There is absolutely no need to over react and be on the defensive as if it is only in India that communal violence takes place. Secondly, India in its present state of economic and political conditions is not dependent on any particular nation or religious community for its survival. We have a developed legal system and the machinery of the State is certainly more effective than many of the so called advanced nations of the West in matters of handling law and order situations and in facing terrorist attacks. Therefore, I am quite confident that we in India will be able to contain the situation and bring back normalcy.

Husky · (This post was last modified: 10-27-2008, 07:06 PM by Husky.)

1. Here ravish assumes (twice!) that the rape of the nun occurred and that Hindus did it.
QUOTE(ravish @ Oct 27 2008, 04:09 PM)We do not condone the violence or the rape of the nun.[right][snapback]89517[/snapback][/right]QUOTEthe raped nun and the concern voiced by the Pope and the Christian worldEven the Indian media has referred to it as 'alleged' rape, which is what it is until further evidence is discovered.
There is this little thing known as Innocent Until Proven Guilty, ya know. But not for psecular ravish - not when Hindus are among the accused, at any rate.

2. Meanwhile ravish makes another assumption - in favour of christianism, in case people weren't expecting it - and calls the Pope "his holyness" ("HH") twice:
QUOTEthe utterances of HH the Pope and his associates in India and elsewhere.QUOTEHH the Pope is paid to make noise in the appropriate forum for the protection of the Christians whom he represents.Popes are not holy. Popes have been rapists, murderers, con-artists (relics, forgeries), vandals, book-burners (and library burners), slave holders, and oh yeah - incestuous and paedophilic. But holy - now that would be a first. See Details from the lives of some early Popes

3. Where did ravish study? (Did he study at all, may be a more pertinent question.) Doesn't he know that most of britain is not catholic now nor was during the christobritish empire? It was mostly anglican, which is a kind of faux-protestantism. It was specifically not papist, therefore where does the imaginary respect ravish alleges that Indians have for the pope come from - can't be from the christobrits, after all. Perhaps ravish means it came from the christoportuguese or christofrench colonialists, but then they didn't control that much landmass in India:
QUOTERavish: Due to 200 years of slavery under the British, many of my countrymen are always respectful to the religion of the Emperor. Even after, sixty years of our existence as citizens of a free nation, due to our English education and Western ideas and thinking, we are prone to give very special treatment to the utterances of HH the Pope and his associates in India and elsewhere.Your Emperor is dead, by the way. But his religion was *anglicanism*. As was the religion of your British empress, queen, king - whatever titles they took.
And the words of the pope - who is 'HH' to you - is given such special treatment only by you (among the claimants to Hinduism), as far as I can tell.

Don't know why I'm going to try reasoning with ravish - annoying reasonable IF has rubbed off on me momentarily (IF: <img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/mad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad.gif' />)
Ravish, you have a terrible habit of blathering without giving any supporting evidence for the vast amount of nonsense you impose on everybody. Why do you do it? Who do you think you're convincing?
Prove your claims ravish:
That the latest alleged nun rape case is true and that her alleged attacker(s) was/were Hindu.
Don't post again until you have evidence to prove both parts of that statement. (References to the 'Indian' christomedia grapevine do not count.)

Following not aimed at the ravish character anymore:
QUOTEravish: There is absolutely no need to over react and be on the defensive as if it is only in India that communal violence takes place.The communal violence in India is instigated by christoislamic aggression and outright terrorist activity. The islamics like to terrorise as do the christian militants of the NE and Orissa, while the christos in Karnataka and TN and elsewhere like to abuse Hindu Dharma, precipitate a backlash and then cry to their foreign handlers about how "the Evil Hindoos Got Angry And Didn't Take To Jeebus" in spite of their christo-abuse.

QUOTEthere is no guarantee that such a thing will not happen in the future.Yes, wherever there is christoislamicommunazism these things will keep happening, because they will keep terrorising people. That's what they do.
Get rid of the terrorist memes and people will be free to live in peace.

ravish · 10-27-2008, 10:09 PM

Husky, When the battle line is between the Hindu and the Christian, I do not feel the need of making a distinction between the different class of Christians. In times of war the need is for unity. I agree that many of my views expressed on this forum are not to the liking of many of the members. The intense hate that I have generated for myself may be the reason that you have not been able to comprehend the fundamental and central point of my submission in the previous post. Just read the post with a cool mind forgetting about the author , I am sure you will get to the point.

Before concluding, I may like to submit that you may perhaps have not seen a rape victim from close quarters, so perhaps you are unable to comprehend the trauma and mental instability of the victim. It is mostly in the realm of Hindi movies that rape can be faked for a considerable period of time. Faking it for a prolong period in the Indian surroundings before full media glare is something almost impossible. In the post I have not made a legalistic submission as it has been made as a passing reference.
Hope this clarifies my contention.

Husky · (This post was last modified: 10-28-2008, 08:07 PM by Husky.)

QUOTE(ravish @ Oct 27 2008, 10:09 PM)I agree that many of my views expressed on this forum are not to the liking of many of the members. The intense hate that I have generated for myself may be the reason that you have not been able to comprehend the fundamental and central point of my submission in the previous post. Just read the post with a cool mind forgetting about the author , I am sure you will get to the point.[right][snapback]89526[/snapback][/right]Your self-flattery exercises ("the intense hate... for myself") are producing no effect on me. You annoy me for your thoughtless insipid posts. I think willful stupidity is a crime that ought to be banned.

QUOTEravish: the trauma and mental instability of the victim.You hypocrite.

Here's your... your - whatever one calls this post of yours.

Bharatavarsha's response to your drivel summarises it while exposing your shifty attempts at humanity:
QUOTE(Bharatvarsh @ Sep 16 2008, 10:30 PM)we are not cultured enuf to understand such great wisdom but maybe u can elaborate the same way u blessed us with ur wisdom in the army sexual misconduct case yesterday citing "harsh climate".
[right][snapback]88096[/snapback][/right]

QUOTEravish: the trauma and mental instability of the victim.What is that line supposed to do? Are you making a Plea To Emotionalism? Appeal away.

As any human/creature would, I sympathise with individuals who have truly suffered trauma. But I have no time for frauds. And several such earlier 'Nun Raped By Hindoo' faux-cases - including in Orissa itself - have been shown to be lies.
I will not let cases that fit such a dubious pattern waste my sympathy until I *know* that the alleged victim is deserving of it: the courts must decide whether she was attacked (and of course - in case an assault actually took place - also discover and punish whoever did it).

Meanwhile, I don't see you racing to stand up for the vast numbers of factually victimised nuns murdered in christian terror centres aka churches - as seen frequently in Kerala. Most of whom have not been given any justice at all by our christotyrant government, christomedia or the lay christos in India (let alone by the predatory church and religion which attacked and murdered them).

QUOTE(ravish @ Oct 27 2008, 10:09 PM)Before concluding, I may like to submit that you may perhaps have not seen a rape victim from close quarters, so perhaps you are unable to comprehend the trauma and mental instability of the victim.[right][snapback]89526[/snapback][/right]Don't you dare play this as a game for scoring points for morality.

No, I've not seen a rape victim from close quarters. What I have had to deal with is a classmate/friend in NL (Netherlands) high school (when we were 14) who was - what's the English word for aangerand, is it molested? (not literal rape) - by a paedophile who was supposed to be helping kids. From trying to talk to her, I do have a 2nd hand appreciation of the prolonged mental trauma and physiological effects such events have on them, such as on their eating habits (or rather, the lack thereof).
And earlier on, when in NL primary, our entire school had to learn of a schoolmate who had been tossed out of a car (no clothes) by a bunch of paedophiles after she was attacked.
So you can stuff your emotional manipulations/one-upmanship. You're disgusting for making me bring all this up at all.

QUOTEIt is mostly in the realm of Hindi movies that rape can be faked for a considerable period of time.Shut up.
I've been very kind to you so far. Next time, my fist comes out.

Husky · (This post was last modified: 10-28-2008, 08:05 PM by Husky.)

1a. Remember The Dreadful Dracula Houses of Kerala- The Catholic Christian Convents of Central Kerala from 23/04/2007 By Dr. C.I.Issac

1b. Latest news:
expressbuzz
via http://rajeev2004.blogspot.com/2008/10/wil...nd-mteresa.html
QUOTEwild guess: unlike alphonsa and mteresa, this nun ain't going to be sainted any time soon
oct 19th, 2008

she's more likely to be bumped off quietly. like sister abhaya who showed up drowned in a well. or sister anoopa who was murdered just a few weeks ago, i forget with what blunt instrument.

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: C

http://www.expressbuzz.com/edition/print.a...id=9i39XP7mgj8=
(See working link above)

By G Rajiv
17 Oct 2008 02:00:00 AM IST

Revelations put nun's life in danger

THIRUVANANTHAPURAM: A nun's life is under threat following her revelations about the alleged abortions performed on nuns and the "limitless"' affairs the priests were having with nuns of the Congregation of Daughters of Mary Convent, Anchal.

Following a complaint from the nephew of this nun, the State Women's Commission member P.K.Sainaba met the nun at a mental hospital in Thodupuzha.

Her nephew has alleged that she has been forcibly admitted to the mental hospital by the Convent authorities.

The complaint makes an even more serious charge that one of the nuns of the congregation, Sister Serenna Jacob, had committed suicide unable to bear the trauma.

Now the State Women's Commission has sought the urgent intervention of the Health and Home Ministers in the issue. In a report submitted to the Ministers, the Commission said: "If things continue like this we fear that the life of the nun is in danger." In her statement given to the Women's Commission member, the nun said: "My hands and legs were tied up and I was forcibly given anaesthesia and then I was taken to the mental hospital. I am given 18 tablets a day now for making me mentally weak." She narrated all that had happened in the convent and told the Women's Commission member that she was ready to repeat all that she had said in the court.

The nun pleaded that she be rescued from the clutches of the convent authorities.
The 60-year-old nun has been with this congregation for the past 43 years and she had complained to her relative over phone on August 17 that she was being mentally and physically tortured by the convent authorities.

However, according to the nun's nephew, the very next day the nun's relatives and her brother received a call from the convent authorities seeking permission to admit her to a psychiatric hospital. Sister Lilly Thomas Paikada, Mother-Provincial, had termed the nun as extremely abnormal.

"Her sharp criticism about the abortions carried out on some sisters and her questioning about the limitless affairs with sisters and priests made the authorities violent and was the reason behind their decision to give psychiatric treatment with the intention to make it seem that her statements were meaningless and baseless," the complaint to the Women's Commission says.

2. Another recent victim (though she's still alive I think?) is that 26 year old woman 'adopted' by what rajeev2004blogspot calls "The Vampire of Cochin" bishop in Kerala:
the 'vampire of cochin's' case is swept under the carpet like all the nuns' murders?

Not a 'simple' case of an old catholic ought-to-be-celibate clergyman with a secret wife/mistress (Shambhu already posted on there being some sordidness to it all). Things are far more like a gory horror movie than I suspected.

more on the vampire of cochin's antics: is he going to be a saint soon?
QUOTEoct 20th, 2008

i don't think i need to make any snide remarks about this. it is truly bizarre stuff.

here is a verbatim translation of the report in the kerala kaumudi, oct 16th.

===========================

bishop uses adopted girl's blood in ritual

cochin: there is a new controversy surrounding cochin bishop dr. john thattunkal who adopted a 26-year-old woman against canon law. it is said that he performed sacrifices using the woman's blood.

sources which are themselves attached to the church have said that the woman had been adopted from a pathanamthitta orthodox godman, [ED: ORTHODOX = OWING ALLEGIANCE TO THE PATRIARCH OF ANTIOCH]. after her blood had been declared to be the same as christ's blood, it was sprinkled in the bishop's palace.

it is understood that on the first wednesday of last month the bishop had informed assembled godmen that he had adopted the young woman, that the blood sacrifice was to be performed, and that the date would be decided by his adopted daughter sonia. the blood sacrifice would help remove some 'bad things' that were happening to the cochin diocese, he explained. when asked where the blood would come from, the answer was that sonia herself would provide it. when she touched the christ idol, blood would hemorrhage from her body and that could be used for the ritual, the bishop said.

subsequently, on the evening of the 8th of october, sonia, her foster-father the orthodox godman from pathanamthitta, and several godmen from the bishop's palace, witnessed the blood sacrifice being conducted by the black-gowned bishop himself, according to the sources. it is believed that this is described in the complaint to arch-bishop daniel acharuparambil by six forane [SIC, ED: SOME SECT] vicars.

the church would suffer destruction in 2011 and at that point the child born of his adopted daughter would appear with an iron rod in his hands and rejuvenate the church, explained the bishop in his speech to the godmen. apparently this is a reason why the adoption controversy has become public. the godmen who knew of the relationship between the bishop and the girl already had assumed that sonia was merely a girl with 'charismatic' experiences. however, the godmen became opposed to their chief when he said the church would be destroyed and that the savior would be the girl's son.

meanwhile, there is also an allegation that the bishop has adopted a girl who had been adopted earlier by the orthodox priest in pathanamthitta. the earlier explanation given by the bishop had been that the adopted girl was the eldest of the four daughters of the orthodox godman.

it is also alleged that there are several hotels and other establishments in cochin owned by the bishop of cochin. a hospital named MAT india medical center in ezhupunna in nearby alappuzha district is run by an unregistered trust in the names of the bishop dr. [ED -- THAT'S DOCTOR OF DIVINITY, NOT MEDICAL DOCTOR] john thattunkal and his brothers anthony and joy. in addition, three hotels in cochin city and a massage parlor near the bishop's palace are being run in benami names, according to the anti-bishop camp.
(I guess Joy can be a boy's name after all.)

it is further alleged that home-stays -- frequented by foreigners among others -- are being run without the permission of the church.My Gods. This is Sick.
And such things have entered into Hindu Kerala from that house of mental and spiritual disease the Vatican (aka Christoterrorist Central).
As the site of a former-catholic reveals:
http://www.priestsofdarkness.com/devil.html
QUOTEThe Devil at Home in Rome
Insiders Claim Satanists Skulk in the Vatican
Reports persist of actual devil-worship in the Holy See.
What is worrisome is that these reports are from insiders who should know.

AÂ book published several years ago by a retired priest, Msgr. Luigi Marinelli, caused quite a stir in Italy. Gone With the Wind at the Vatican flew off the shelves as Italians eagerly consumed its stories of greedy bishops, money-laundering prelates, and even sexual abuse. In so doing, he became but the latest Vatican insider to allege that satanic rituals have been performed within the walls of the Holy See. Another recent book, the anonymously written Blood Lies in the Vatican, also hinted at Masonic plots in Rome.

This latest round began with allegations described as âexplosive,â made in Rome in November 1996 by an archbishop that members of the Roman Catholic hierarchy there are secretly involved in formal satanic worship. These charges have been confirmed as true by a well-known Vatican insider and are all the more remarkable by the total lack of notice in the US press.As Finno-Ugrics and other pagan reconstructionists say, satanism is just christianism. A number of old popes indulged in this kind of YUCK too.

Husky · 10-28-2008, 08:29 PM

^ Latest on nun's abortions and clergy vampyrism (in Kerala)

Christoterrorists onto temple destruction now in Goa.
Can you tell Constantine/Helena - I mean Sonia - is in charge.

Comment on 19 Oct 2004 at
http://rajeev2004.blogspot.com/2008/10/lit...m-in-india.html
QUOTEBloggerÂ Hemant said...

Â Â Just like Assam, the media seems to have ignored temple destruction being carried out in Goa.

Â Â I happen to have few relatives in Goa and came to know from them that tomorrow is 'bandh' called protesting the various incidents of temple destruction in Goa taking place for last few days.

Â Â Links:
Â Â Goa Temple destruction : AGMSS calls for âGoa Bandhâ on 20th
Â Â http://www.hindujagruti.org/news/5627.html

Â Â Series of idol desecration incidents going on in Goa
Â Â http://www.hindujagruti.org/news/5617.html

Â Â Sree Saraswatiâs idol desecrated at Farmagudi, Goa
Â Â http://www.hindujagruti.org/news/5523.html

Â Â more...
Â Â http://www.hindujagruti.org/news/category/...les-destruction

Â Â Really feel sad reading about the incidents and even more as media and politicians seem to have totally 'forgotten' majority people's faith and sentiments and are busy in minority appeasement!

Â Â 10/19/2008 9:23 AMThis kind of aggressive violence of christianism in Orissa, Karnataka, Goa (ongoing in AP, TN, Kerala) are all signs that christianism feels it now has the upper hand. It never moves into that position unless it feels confident it will win.

10-28-2008, 11:19 PM

@huskyQUOTE @ravish<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE
It is mostly in the realm of Hindi movies that rape can be faked for a considerable period of time.
Shut up.
I've been very kind to you so far. Next time, my fist comes out.</div>

Husky,
One nun in jhuba, MP, said she was raped, it was a big news, all media was all over, later it was proved she lied. Around same time couple of girls, if I recall 6-7 Hindu girls were raped in Delhi in one day. I called Times of India and Hindustan times, I used my friends and asked them to print this news. My friends in media tried and they had discussion with editors etc. you know what these low life morons said this is not a news. So rape of common Hindu girls in capital is not a news but fake rape of nun is news and all media, government babus manhood start showing up everywhere.
In India, to report case in Police station, one has to bribe morons from bottom to top. For some eve teasing case in front of Parliament Street, New Delhi. SOB Government babus were standing there just ignorned girl was molested by guy in motorcycle. They refused to be witness. Parliament Street Police refused to register that case because abuser was a son of a Joint Secetary (IAS officer). That moron was known to unzip himself in parliamnent street, New Delhi in daylight in front of girls around bus stop or just crossing road.
Problem in India is Government and Babus, who had so much power, they control media and thought process. I hope internet can expose them and relaity will come out.

dhu · (This post was last modified: 10-29-2008, 03:07 AM by dhu.)

Conversations with foreign-funded charity
Sudheendra Kulkarni

QUOTEHas the time come for the Government to set up a National Commission to investigate religious conversions in India? Certainly. Let the Nation know how many conversions have taken place fromâand intoâHinduism, Islam, Christianity, Sikhism and other faiths since 1947. Let the commission throw light on the districts where, and how, significant changes in religious demography have taken place, and whether conversions have created resentment and social disharmony in their wake.

An unbiased commission would reveal three irrefutable facts: (1) Christianity accounts for the largest number of

converts; (2) Christian organisations conduct service activitiesâschools, hospitals, poverty-alleviation programmes, relief during calamities, etc.âwith exemplary dedication and professionalism. However, some of them, though not all, make the conversion agenda a part of their seva agenda; (3) Foreign funds supporting these charitable activities have greatly aided conversions.

Take, for example, the following information, pertaining to the Foreign Contribution (Regulation) Act (FCRA), available on the website of the Union Home Ministry. During 2005-06, Rs 7,877 crore was received by way of foreign donations to various NGOs, up from Rs 5,105 crore in 2003-04. Tamil Nadu (Rs 1,610 crore) and Andhra Pradesh (Rs 1,011 crore) were among the highest recipients. The highest foreign donors were Gospel Fellowship Trust USA (Rs 229 crore), Gospel for Asia (Rs 137 crore), Foundation Vincent E Ferrer, Spain (Rs 104.23 crores) and Christian Aid, UK (Rs 80.16 crores). The largest recipients were World Vision (Rs 256 crore), Caritas India (Rs 193 crore), Rural Development Trust Andhra Pradesh (Rs 127 crore), Churches Auxiliary for Social Action (Rs. 95.88 crores) and Gospel For Asia (Rs. 58.29 crore). The funds received by some of these organisations have trebled or quadrupled in just three years since the formation of the UPA Government.

If the official Christian population in India is barely 3 per cent, why do Christian NGOs receive the largest share of foreign funds? From Christian organisations that are known to support evangelism in many Asian countries?

In my travels in Karnataka, my home state, I have seen significant conversions to Christianity having taken place in recent years wherever World Vision and other foreign-funded NGOs started their charitable activities. Kannada newspapers in the past few weeks have carried graphic accounts of how proselytisation is packaged with charity, especially targeting vulnerable sections of society. There is resentment in Assam against World Visionâs flood-relief operations in Majuli, a large island in the Brahmaputra and a sacred seat of the Vaishnava monastery of Sankara Deva, the great reformist saint.

Tripura is one of the Indian states where, as the CPI(M) Chief Minister Manik Sarkar has himself acknowledged, the foreign-funded Baptist church supports subversive activities, including the conversion of tribals. The church-backed separatist outfit, National Liberation Front of Tripura (NLFT), gunned down 16 Hindus at a marketplace in West Tripura district on January 13, 2002, on the eve of Makar Sankranti, an incident that went largely uncommented by the national media.

The Internet has many reports about Buddhist resentment against World Vision and other evangelical bodies operating in Mongolia, Bhutan, Sri Lanka, Thailand, Myanmar and even Tibet, âusing unethical methods, under the guise of being charitable organisations, to buy converts in Asiaâ. The Australian, a leading newspaper of Australia, reported on December 24, 2005: âTensions between Muslims and Western aid workers have begun to erupt in Aceh as the tsunami-devastated Indonesian province (where 170,000 people died) slowly recovers. Islamic activists have claimed that aid workers are secretly attempting to convert Muslims to Christianity, pointing particularly to World Vision, the International Catholic Mission and Church World Service.â

Lt Col A.S. Amarasekera, a Sri Lankan Buddhist activist, has expressed the following fear: âWhile everyone is focusing their minds on the LTTE problem, we Sinhalese Buddhists are pitted against another force as dangerous: the dangers that the Sinhalese Buddhist way of life will have to face due to conversions in the near future. What happened in South Korea, where the 80 per cent Buddhist population was reduced to 18 per cent in five decades, will be repeated hereÂ¿ It (is) proved beyond reasonable doubt that World Vision, an American-funded Christian evangelical organisation, was surreptitiously trying to convert Sinhalese Buddhists into Christianity.â

The recent attacks on churches in Orissa and elsewhere have been justifiably condemned by all patriotic individuals. However, as I stated in my column last week, a distinction must be made between a violent campaign against our Christian brethren and a non-violent, democratic campaign against organised conversions using foreign funds. I happened to participate in a remarkable inter-religion conference on conversions organised by the Vatican in collaboration with the World Council of Churches, Geneva, a Protestant body, in Lariano (Italy) in May 2006. Let me mention here some of the recommendations in a report unanimously adopted by the conference.

â¢ âWhile everyone has a right to invite others to an understanding of their faith, it should not be exercised by violating otherâs rights and religious sensibilities. At the same time, all should heal themselves from the obsession of converting others.â

â¢ âFreedom of religion enjoins upon all of us the equally non-negotiable responsibility to respect faiths other than our own, and never to denigrate, vilify or misrepresent them for the purpose of affirming superiority of our faith.â

â¢ âErrors have been perpetrated and injustice committed by the adherents of every faith. Therefore, it is incumbent on every community to conduct honest self-critical examination of its historical conduct as well as its doctrinal/theological precepts. Such self-criticism and repentance should lead to necessary reforms inter alia on the issue of conversion.â

â¢ âA particular reform that we would commend to practitioners and establishments of all faiths is to ensure that conversion by âunethicalâ means are discouraged and rejected by one and all. There should be transparency in the practice of inviting others to oneâs faith.â

â¢ âWhile deeply appreciating humanitarian work by faith communities, we feel that it should be conducted without any ulterior motives. In the area of humanitarian service in times of need, what we can do together, we should not do separately.â

â¢ âNo faith organisation should take advantage of vulnerable sections of society, such as children and the disabled.â

â¢ âWe see the need for and usefulness of a continuing exercise to collectively evolve a âcode of conductâ on conversion, which all faiths should follow.â

Why shouldnât there be a sustained and sincere all-religion debate in India on an anti-conversion law in the spirit of the above recommendations?

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