Promote Indian Culture

rhytha · (This post was last modified: 12-29-2003, 04:52 PM by rhytha.)

Welcome to the forum Hyagriva <!--emo& Smile

--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' />

**Hauma Hamiddha** · 12-29-2003, 12:20 PM

QUOTE(Hyagriva @ Dec 29 2003, 12:43 AM) The only hope is to savage what we can before its too late. We have to take up whatever is 'savagable', guard it alone and lift it

Welcome to the forum Hayagriva- looking forward to your contributions. I guess you meant salvage and not savage <!--emo& Big Grin

--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' />

In any case I am not sure we need to be so pessimistic as you sound. Things are bad but could have been worse so it is each Indian's duty to do what best s/he can towards cultural preservation. What irritates me is that many well to do Indians are hardly interested in even making even a simple effort

muddur · 12-29-2003, 02:37 PM

Though hayagriva sounds pessimistic, he speaks reality.

India and Indianness and Indian culture has been systematically attacked and destroyed by the foreign invaders (Muslim and Christian) and by our OWN Indians since 1947.

Too much destruction has been inflicted on Indian culture, if it can stil survive it will be a miracle waiting. IMO, it is already too late to salvage, not much can be done, unless the attackers of Indian culture are puched behind first.

rhytha · (This post was last modified: 12-29-2003, 04:52 PM by rhytha.)

QUOTE(rhytha @ Dec 29 2003, 11:24 AM) Welcome to the forum HyagrivaÂ <!--emo& Smile

--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /> 
Thanks Rytha. Yep you guessed right <!--emo& Wink

--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /> [Mental note - Damn e-mail client gave it away, gotta be carefull next time while among the *****]

Rytha, you know, I am right in midst of my own long-lost dear company.

Hauma.. thanks for salvaging that. My typing skills are slowly returning and I feel so glad I am here. Feels like homecoming.

12-29-2003, 03:27 PM

Hello,

While yes, the debate can go on as to when is the doomsday for Indian culture/music/way of life, not all hope is lost.

One of my relatives, who lives in a small village in South India, took love for Marathi Abhang bhajans, and not only mastered it, but has become world famous for rendering it. That shows cross cultural appreciation is picking up in India after a steady decline because of brow beating of every culture down was started by lot of those "other" religions.

Here is a small glimpse into his work: http://www.vittalvihar.org

Me being really interested in music and composing too, I have started appreciating Marathi bhajans - Thanks to him.

Maybe Indian culture will survive longer than what we think.

Eswar

rhytha · (This post was last modified: 12-29-2003, 04:50 PM by rhytha.)

QUOTE(Hyagriva @ Dec 29 2003, 03:15 PM) <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(rhytha @ Dec 29 2003, 11:24 AM) Welcome to the forum Hyagriva (r u OS) <!--emo& Smile

--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /> 
Thanks Rytha. Yep you guessed right <!--emo& Wink

--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /> [Mental note - Damn e-mail client gave it away, gotta be carefull next time while among the ****]

Rytha, you know, I am right in midst of my own long-lost dear company.

Hauma.. thanks for salvaging that. My typing skills are slowly returning and I feel so glad I am here. Feels like homecoming. </div>
wtf, you cunning baniya <!--emo& Tongue

--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tongue.gif' /> <img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/ROTFL.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='ROTFL.gif' /> . i completely fell for it <img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tv_feliz.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tv_feliz.gif' />

keep it up <img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/thumbup.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='thumbup.gif' />

12-30-2003, 12:25 AM

Hindu Vivek Kendra - link http://www.hvk.org/
Collection of good articles.

12-30-2003, 01:14 AM

Real Men Do Yoga

01-01-2004, 03:39 AM

I have always wanted to ask this question to some one capable of answering it. Now that I have found a forum that has lots of people who can answer me, I have decided to ask.

First off , I am newbie , so please forgive my errors in logic, method or etiquette.

I want India to become a major power.

For India to become a major power , it is an un-controversial opinion that we have to become a major economic power. The most effective way to achieve this by selling our services to other countries (Software etc.) , by opening up our markets to entities with money ( Corporations etc.). I will call these entities as Wealth sources. Both have happened at a remarkable level in the past 12 to 15 years and the results are self evident. There is a third way of selling extremely high technology "Products" ( read missiles , Airplanes, Radars etc.) . Realistically it will take atleast an other 20-30 yrs for us to do that in a large scale.

In the past 12 to 15 years I have also seen a marked change in the way people behave , conduct themselves and interact with others. Even though the majority of the Indian populace has not changed , the majority of the Indian populace has not had a slice of the pie yet. It is mostly folks in Delhi , bombay, Culcutta, Madras , Hydrebad etc. who have seen the most economic growth , and also have had the opportunity to interact with these wealth sources.

Even the guys from rural areas and villages who did B.Thech and M.Tech with me have become more westernized after coming into contact with these wealth sources.

I have infered that economic growth leads to westernization.

I would like to make it clear that I have no problems with becoming wealthy or becoming more sphisticated(what ever that means).

The problem I have is the emergence of "pseudo-culture". A Bombayite or a Madrasi dressing up , walking , talking , eating and conducting him/her self like a westerner to some extent or an other not necessarily because of "how it feels" but more because of "wht it represents" . Even though it is true that these people are a small minority, it is also true that this small minority is the group that has come in contact with wealth sources.

I have no problems with seeing a half naked woman on TV( as a matter of fact I like that kind of thing <!--emo& Big Grin

--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /> ) , but I want that woman to be naked in an Indian way.

If you take the question of getting dressed up , it is always GUCCI or LACOSTE or RALPH LAUREN. Are there no sophisticated indian ways of dressing up ?

If you take fine eating , many people prefer PIZZA over other equally costly , indeginous food.

If you look at movies 90 % of them are shot abroad!!!!. You see these actors wrapping themselves around the american flag and dancing in LA or SF.

In case of automobiles , altleast one can say that BMW is better than Ambassador. A Sony better than MTNL phone.But things like clothing , perfume , attire , food , are are a matter of taste.

Why do most nouveau riche prefer foreign culture over Indian culture to show their success to their societey.

The reason behind my elaboration is to ask one simple yet frightening question.

As economic progress comes to India there will be more and more people touched by the wealth sources. Does this mean that there will be a gradual erosion of what our core culture and values are ?

Do we have to be less and less Indian if we have to have more and more full stomachs in our country?

Is there any way to market the "Indian way of Good living". Why dont we see huge truck loads of "tender coconut water" being shipped all over india instead of pepsi and coke and Perrier.

Thanks for taking the time to read this

01-02-2004, 09:37 PM

hey guys can any one answer my question Huh

01-02-2004, 10:11 PM

SSR,

Westerners are getting more Hinduized while Hindus are getting into what they think as western values - such as drinking, dancing, pizza whatever they see in movies etc they think it is western value. May be in a way that is good <!--emo& Wink

--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /> Once they see westerners clamoring for Indian/Hindu things, our own people will see the value and worth of what they have already? Macaullty brains.... <img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='laugh.gif' />

Random thoughts...

01-02-2004, 10:42 PM

QUOTE(k.ram @ Jan 2 2004, 10:11 PM) SSR,

Westerners are getting more Hinduized while Hindus are getting into what they think as western values - such as drinking, dancing, pizza whatever they see in movies etc they think it is western value. May be in a way that is goodÂ <!--emo& Wink

--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /> Once they see westerners clamoring for Indian/Hindu things, our own people will see the value and worth of what they have already? Macaullty brains....Â <img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='laugh.gif' />

Random thoughts... 
iam hearing this often, west is craving for hinduism and what not..
can u give me appox. number of westerners who pratice hinduism

01-02-2004, 10:53 PM

My take:
With time every other person tries to adopt different culture but only few thing, foreign ways stays back but rest evaporates. E.g Dress like Pants and Shirts stayed back rest of the cultural influence during British occupation is disappearing. Eating habits is very difficult to change.
Indians donât eat Pizza on daily basis. Processed cheese is still not adopted by Indian.
Smoking is going through roll back process all over world and same in India.
Drinking alcohol or madira was always there but it is still not common.
Now Indians do more rituals than before. They follow all traditions some are mundane. Every one wants to go through age old tradition of 4-5 days wedding.
More traditional wedding dresses are trend in India. Yet to see girl getting married in short skirt or shoulder less dress.
Even traditional prints or weaving is a trend which is very expensive. Age group of 15-21 is always do something different and copies but that last for short duration. Yet to see my mom in skirts even long skirts, even Salwar Kameez is rare.

Western original goods only bought by very rich, rest knows all is made in India but with fake tag on it. Indians are smart donât under estimate them. Have you seen Indians making lines outside store at 3am just to get new western fashion style? Nope. Have you seen Indians sleeping outside Movie Theater one day ahead to see Lord of Rings? Nope.
Donât worry. 1 Billion will influence more people not other way round. Age group15-21 are never trend setter for country. They just bring joy and color.

01-02-2004, 10:56 PM

Rhytha,

Every other person I get in touch with thinks like a hindu and have the same values as hindus do. I cannot give a number, however. The problem lies with, quite frankly, with us. We do not allow them in and let them feel that they are part of us. Once they are shunned, they won't come to us again, nonetheless, they live with similar ideals etc etc. When they look for guidance and help, Indians turn them down. I think that has to change, and it is a social problem, so I do not know how to approach it other than educating our own people about all these issues, because I know my people well. I am talking about personal experience, as my girlfriend is a firang, and she is the most staunch hindu I have seen, but in India they never accepted her as such. Well, what do you do? Huh

Things will not change over night.

01-02-2004, 10:59 PM

What do u mean by "thinks like a Hindu"? How do hindus think??

Whats "firang"?

01-02-2004, 11:01 PM

QUOTEWhats "firang"? 
Western

01-02-2004, 11:11 PM

QUOTE(rhytha @ Jan 2 2004, 10:59 PM) What do u mean by "thinks like a Hindu"? How do hindus think??

Whats "firang"? 
I recommend a book called "Hindu Mind", I forget the author but I am sure you can google it. Also dig up stuff on "freemasons", most of the westerners I come across are already freemasons, though they will not admit it right away, since there is some stigma attached to it. Read up on Thomas Paine too.

Firang meaning white/western.

01-02-2004, 11:15 PM

QUOTE(Mudy @ Jan 2 2004, 10:53 PM)
Now Indians do more rituals than before. They follow all traditions some are mundane. Every one wants to go through age old tradition of 4-5 days wedding.
More traditional wedding dresses are trend in India. Yet to see girl getting married in short skirt or shoulder less dress.
Even traditional prints or weaving is a trend which is very expensive. Age group of 15-21 is always do something different and copies but that last for short duration. Yet to see my mom in skirts even long skirts, even Salwar Kameez is rare.

Western original goods only bought by very rich, rest knows all is made in India but with fake tag on it. Indians are smart donât under estimate them. Have you seen Indians making lines outside store at 3am just to get new western fashion style? Nope. Have you seen Indians sleeping outside Movie Theater one day ahead to see Lord of Rings? Nope.
Donât worry. 1 Billion will influence more people not other way round. Age group15-21 are never trend setter for country. They just bring joy and color. 
Yes Mudy, You are absolutely right. It is on the upswing. I blame our bollywood and distorted view of our own indentity. But as you said, yes it changing, and hopefully it will pick up pace as it goes along and get everyone into sanatana dharma.

01-02-2004, 11:37 PM

xposted
-----------

We know that many Hindus have different "interpretations" of what
is correct and wrong as per tradition. However let us make no
mistake regarding learning scriptures. *All* are *entitled* to learn
sanskrit, any Tamil(vernacular) sacred text , Gita, Mahabharatha,
Bhagavatham, can sing , dance, chant, learn any puranic, smrithi
text. These are themselves voluminous. There is no prohibition for
*any one* any where to do these things. Hindus can learn, Thevaram,
Thiruvaasagam, Valmiki Ramayan( adhitya hrudayam is in Valmiki),
Aazhvaar pasurams etc etc.

There is/was/ will be no swamiji, however "puritanical" he may be
who can say there is anything any where that can prohobit any one
from any of these! There is no race, varna, jaathi, gender
requirement for any of these any where.

In Chandhogya upa it says- ithihaasa purano panchamo vedhanam-
ithihaasas and puranas are the fifth veda and the veda of vedas!

"Indeed, Rg, Yajur, Sama and Atharva are the names of the four
Vedas. The Itihasas and Puranas are the fifth Veda." (Kauthumiya
Chandogya Upanisad 7.1.4)

Those who know the veda but know no ithihasa puranas are not leaned!

In the Prabhasa-khanda of the Skanda Purana (5.3.121-124) it is
said â

veda-van niscalam manye puranartham dvijottamah
vedah pratisthitah sarve purane natra samsayah

bibhety-alpa-srutad vedo mam ayam calayisyati
itihasa-puranais tu niscalo'yam krtah purah

yan na drstam hi vedesu tad drstam smrtisu dvijah
ubhayor yan na drstam hi tat puranah pragiyate
yo veda caturo vedan sangopanisado dvijah
puranam naiva janati na ca sa syad vicaksana

" O best of the brahmanas, the meaning of the Puranas is unchanging
just like that of the Vedas. The Vedas are all sheltered within the
Puranas without a doubt. The Veda has a fear that unqualified people
will read her and then distort her meaning. Thus, the significance
of the Veda was fixed in the Puranas and Itihasas. That which is not
found in the Vedas is found in the Smrti. That which is not found in
the Smrti is to be found in the Puranas. Those who know even the
Vedas and Upanisads are not learned if they do not know the Puranas."

Sage Veda Vyasa authored the puranas, Mahabharatha with the
explicit purpose of enabling *any one* who is interested and
motivated, to study all these. In fact the puranas are far more
interesting and easier! Take Bhagavatham and Gita for ex.

The language of vedas is very mystic. It demands a lot of discipline
and commitment. The dwijas(brahmana, kshatriya,vysyas) are supposed
to commit to studying them for about fourteen years in a gurukulum!
Vedic students have to be basically committed to a way of life that
involves rising at 4-30 am, always serve the teacher with whom they
reside for fourteen years approx, not eat nonvegetarian, never drink
alcohol etc etc. Who does all these? Even the most pretentious self
styled P.Cs( my term- P.C.s-preistly castes- are so
called "brahmanas" - a misleading term ) dont do these! Does any one
know of any who do these? Let us remember just wearing a thread and
not do these is an offence!

My suggestion is while we fight to allow all( with no birth-jathi-
requirement as that is against all shastras) to be permitted to
learn vedas ( if they qualify with all the commitment and discipline
required), we could easily propagate all the above puranas, Gita,
sanskrit , bhakthi songs, dance etc. They are far more interesting
any way! Bhakthi transcends even varna system. Varna system is
basically for those who are in the mode of karma primarily( addicted
to desires). Jnana also transcends varna system like wise.

Jai Vigna Vinaayaka Moorthiki!

01-03-2004, 12:27 AM

Interesting discussion. SSRamachandran, let me try to add or answer - all based on personal observation - sorry no link or URL to anywhere else.

I view Indian culture as a amalagmation of several things like Indian music, movies, clothes, religion, cuisine, literature etc. India culture has contributed a lot to this world while the most of world was still swinging from branches - Yoga, Ayurveda, Vedas, etc..come to mind. There's a renewed interest in west for these things - but conveniently the credits to the origins are misplaced. <img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/mad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad.gif' />

SSR:QUOTEAre there no sophisticated indian ways of dressing up ?
One has to only visit a Hindu marriage and see how sophisticated one can get. But your question seems to be more in tune with the Western definition of sophistication. People dress according to the local customs and traditions. You'll see even Bush trying to wear the Chinese dress when he's in China and lately we have seen Indian Govt Officals wear western dress when they visit US. It's very interesting to note how Indians adapt their dressing. I know of Indian women who'll walk around in US in say jeans without the customary dot or <i>tikli</i>, but in India the same person wouldn't dare.

SSR:QUOTEI have no problems with seeing a half naked woman on TV( as a matter of fact I like that kind of thingÂ ) , but I want that woman to be naked in an Indian way. 
Err........don't understand the last part <img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/ohmy.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='ohmy.gif' /> . But let's not go there.

QUOTEIf you look at movies 90 % of them are shot abroad!!!!. You see these actors wrapping themselves around the american flag and dancing in LA or SF.
Yeah, it's a bit disappointing. I watch Indian movies to watch Indian sets/locations - not say Switzerland or NYC. I remember about 2 to 3 years ago, the Swiss Govt gave some kind of award to Hindi film industry for promoting their tourism! Is there reverse spreading of culture is also happening in Western nation?

I remember reading about Raj Kapoor, Nargis etc being a big hit in Russia. Also recall after the fall of Taliban, reading that Aurana Irani movies and Karishma's posters were selling like hot cakes in Afghanistan. I was pleasantly shocked couple years ago when couple Israeli ladies sang <i>'Eachka dana'</i> (old hindi songs from yesteryears) when we met them - apparently Hindi movies in Israel were a big thing in 60s. Not sure as to these days how much our hindi movies are watched by non-Indians.

QUOTEAs economic progress comes to India there will be more and more people touched by the wealth sources. Does this mean that there will be a gradual erosion of what our core culture and values are ?
Good question. Answer will lie between yes and no IMHO. With globalization, people will start looking more towards cost and convenience as they start accepting bits and pieces of different culture. For example, as a resident of US, as a matter of convenience I enjoy the local cuisine of pizza, pasta, sandwiches etc as it's convenient and affordable. I have access to Indian restaurants but I can't afford it on a daily basis. On the other-hand, if I'm ever in Jackson Heights of NY or Oaktree Rd of NJ (huge Indian concentration of stores/hotels), I make it a point to relish every Indian dish that I can lay my hands on and I seriously envy some of my friends who live around there.

On the other hand, look at some of the progress made by Indians in US. From what I hear around 60s and 70s there were just a handful Indian hotels/stores/temples in US. But today almost every decent sized town has these store/restaurants/temples. So the Indian cluture is spreading out too.

I think this will be like a case where one will gain more by loosing or loose more by gaining - depending upon how one views it.

QUOTEWhy dont we see huge truck loads of "tender coconut water" being shipped all over india instead of pepsi and coke and Perrier.
I think again, market demand more than cultural issues will dicate that. Pepsi/Coke were popular in India (or other places) but have you lately noticed the shelves of the local grocery stores in US being stacked with frozen 'Chicken Vinadaloos', 'Chicken Tikka Masalas' etc... <img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='laugh.gif' />

Mudy: QUOTENow Indians do more rituals than before
Have you observed as to how jealosuly Jews stick to their religious rituals and ancient customs. I wish more and more Indian families start imbibing their own traditions/language/culture in their children. It's interesting to note how in some Indian families living in West, kids are more 'Indianized' than their counterparts in India.

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