Many studies of the past have confirmed that India lacks a Higher Defence Organisation that compares to the advanced countries. All debates start and end at CDS. Can CDS be the solution for all ills? Is there a need to completely revamp the system? Has the status and decision making of service chiefs been systematically degraded? How effective is the NSC? ACM Typnis in his book has confessed that there was none-to turn to, during Kargil crisis. Politicians hardly understand the military business. Bureaucrats have very limited exposure to the realities. How do you think the country should go on from here to deal with the issue?
well, more than 50 views have been registered in this page, and yet no reply. I cannot assume ignorance from readers of this esteemed formum. Is it indifference to the issue? For long, matters of defence have been considered a holy cow. Let us be clear that it concerns all of us. Our very existence. Let us for once break this inertia and exchange views freely on our defence management, politics that go with it, and the way forward. I invite all the inidian netizens to join the topic please.
Raman,
you are new in forum, please check existing thread before starting any new thread
There is a existing thread on DRDO etc.
http://www.india-forum.com/forums/index....topic=1925
later I will merge this thread with DRDO.
<!--QuoteBegin-raman+Nov 17 2008, 06:50 AM-->QUOTE(raman @ Nov 17 2008, 06:50 AM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->Many studies of the past have confirmed that India lacks a Higher Defence Organisation that compares to the advanced countries. All debates start and end at CDS. Can CDS be the solution for all ills? Is there a need to completely revamp the system? Has the status and decision making of service chiefs been systematically degraded? How effective is the NSC? ACM Typnis in his book has confessed that there was none-to turn to, during Kargil crisis. Politicians hardly understand the military business. Bureaucrats have very limited exposure to the realities. How do you think the country should go on from here to deal with the issue?
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Raman, what is the name of this book by ACM Typnis? Politicians don't understand military matters because they are all dumb cronies who have no interest in such things. Also, I doubt high officials in India attend Staff Colleges and advanced military educational institutions like it is done in the US.
<!--QuoteBegin-Mudy+Nov 20 2008, 09:21 PM-->QUOTE(Mudy @ Nov 20 2008, 09:21 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->Raman,
you are new in forum, please check existing thread before starting any new thread
There is a existing thread on DRDO etc.
http://www.india-forum.com/forums/index....topic=1925
later I will merge this thread with DRDO.
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Dear Mudy,
I have checked the thread on DRDO. It is more to do with weaponisation programme of the armed forces. My thread on HDO is to do with the management of armed forces in peace and war by the polity and bureaucrats. Both are a lot different. I request you not to merge this with DRDO and promote it separately. Thanks.
<!--QuoteBegin-Pandyan+Nov 21 2008, 02:35 AM-->QUOTE(Pandyan @ Nov 21 2008, 02:35 AM)<!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-raman+Nov 17 2008, 06:50 AM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(raman @ Nov 17 2008, 06:50 AM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->Many studies of the past have confirmed that India lacks a Higher Defence Organisation that compares to the advanced countries. All debates start and end at CDS. Can CDS be the solution for all ills? Is there a need to completely revamp the system? Has the status and decision making of service chiefs been systematically degraded? How effective is the NSC? ACM Typnis in his book has confessed that there was none-to turn to, during Kargil crisis. Politicians hardly understand the military business. Bureaucrats have very limited exposure to the realities. How do you think the country should go on from here to deal with the issue?
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Raman, what is the name of this book by ACM Typnis? Politicians don't understand military matters because they are all dumb cronies who have no interest in such things. Also, I doubt high officials in India attend Staff Colleges and advanced military educational institutions like it is done in the US.
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Pandyan,
Off hand I don't remember the name of the book. In fact I haven't read the book but have read some artilce where he has been quoted from the book. I shall get back to you with addl info.
Let me pose a question to the readers of this forum to make it more interactive. Do you think appointment of a CDS will bring in better jointmanship among the services?
Raman,
I didn't see any substance in this thread even after 7 posts. Does it still deserve a separate thread?
Shamu,
well, your're right that its not hot. But make no mistake. Some of the hot threads marked in red have the same view to reply ratio, roughly 1:50. Check it out. So I prefer that this thread remain so for a few more days. Afterall defence has always been treated as a holy cow, and neither the polity nor the citizens are interested in its affairs. Thats sad. Just bear with me.
11-25-2008, 01:18 PM
(This post was last modified: 11-25-2008, 01:19 PM by Husky.)
"raman", stop (purposefully) obscuring the christianism and islamism threads.
11-26-2008, 12:06 PM
(This post was last modified: 11-26-2008, 12:07 PM by shamu.)
<!--QuoteBegin-raman+Nov 25 2008, 12:18 PM-->QUOTE(raman @ Nov 25 2008, 12:18 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->well, your're right that its not hot. <!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Question is not whether the thread is hot or not. Question is, is there any substance in this thread? I didn't see any so far. Atleast, thread creator should post a lot of substance to keep it alive.
I would recommend admins to move this thread to trash can. If Raman has any point to make, let him post in the existing military thread.
Shamu my friend, you almost said -throw the interest in the country's higher defence organistion into a trash can. You must understand the significance of the subject before commenting that it is devoid of substance. There is enough substane in the subject and I can assure you that. Forum is on Strategic Security of the country. Let's not look for quick fix responses in serious threads such as these. When the present HDO in its original form was created, we had leaders such as Nehu, Patel and the like who understood strategy. Now we have leaders whom I hesitate to name (I'm sure you can guess) who are all set to reach the office of highest decision making body that would control future military decisions. Military decisions have the potential to change the course of nation's history. So we need to have a HDO that has sufficient role in decision making of the country. Ask the strategic experts and they will tell you how difficult to achieve this, with bureaucracy showing little interest for the fear of losing their say. So boy, let a few hundred people visit this thread and I am sure there will be a few sparks. If this thread still does't interest you, page 3 is in the waiting. If the admins also feel so, so be it. JAIHIND.
Let's keep the thread active for a month and see if it picks steam.
If the issue is serious enough, it really doesn't matter if it's discussed in this thread or that thread. Let's not loose sight of the big picture here guys (or gals).
Thanks viren,
What else but the Mumbai terror attacks can be an indicator to the fact that we need a better command and cotrol system at the top. In US and other advanced countries, National Security Council is integrated into the HDO. In India NSC is kept out the HDO. In US, Chief of Staff(equivalent to CDS that we are deliberating upon) is a member of the NSC. In India we don't even have one. In large contingencies of this scale, NSC should meet within a few minutes and effort of all the security forces should be co-ordinated. In this case, there were no reports of NSC meet at all. It has taken 11 hours for the NSG commandos to reach the hotel possibly b'cos they are from the army. The Naval commandos were deployed after almost 10 hours. Better co-ord among the forces is necessary to take faster decisions and act instantaneously.
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