Attack in Mumbai -2

[Pandyan]

Mudy and myself were right on the money. Here it is.

http://cache.boston.com/universal/site_gra...13_17206065.jpg

[Pandyan]

Obviously its not some definitive analysis, but shows the huge difference between India and rest of the world.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v723/g...10xaa5.jpg

http://img377.imageshack.us/my.php?image...icenp2.jpg

[Guest]

Today Right wing radio slammed Deepak Chopra and Pakistan and all leftie countries and Muslims from Syria, Egypt and Pakistan. Way to go.

O'Reiley is now slamming liberal left Deepak Chopra on Fox. According to him all will lead to Pakistan.

[Guest]

Pandyan,
Now they are polluting air, these green loving cowards can lit candle only. They are destroying future generation by all nonsense.
In place go and enroll in physical fitness center or Judo or fire arm.

[Hauma Hamiddha]

Pandyan where did you get that brilliant Mullahs in action picture from? Can I use it. I wish those candle kissers get their meeting with the friendly momeen saif-ud-deen (=sword of Islam).

[Bodhi]

Mumbai November 30, 2008 9:08 pm

The text messages pour in for reactions to press and media. Cynical and provocative text come in describing the ridiculous utterances of the system and those that run it. And actions to placate themselves of dire circumstances, prevail among ruling governance. Ha !!

But the hurt and anger persists. I will refrain and not submit to their requests.

<b>I was to be in Hong Kong at the invitation of ex President Bill Clinton to partake in his Clinton Global Initiative and speak on a topic that would elevate the conditions of our universe.

I cancelled. I am NOT going to leave my country in this troubled hour to travel to a foreign land to lend cause to a foreign initiative, patronized and guided by a foreigner, for his benefit !! I need to see initiative here in my country.

I have also cancelled my participation in LIVE EARTH, the Al Gore initiative which I was to participate in on the 6th and 7th of December. I am NOT going to sing and dance at a time when my country and city bleeds, even though the funds collected were going to be for charity. They can keep their initiative to themselves !!</b>

I have watched TV today and read the press and mingled with citizens. Never ever have I observed the extent of extreme anger in each and every individual of this country towards those that sit in the seat of authority and system and power. This is a determined and definite citizen. A citizen that has decided that everyone of them needs to become his own vigilante. For his sake and for the sake of his country.

I endorse that sentiment.

Portions of my blog of yesterday find place in some of the morning dailies. Some present it in the light it should be presented. Some do not. What else can you expect from the media.

Sensationalizing or giving the matter a color not complimentary to my demeanor is now a foregone conclusion.

It is a pity that the ‘intellectual media’ portrays the incident of the gun under my pillow as one of ridicule and mirth. Of one that reflects a fear on my part. That makes an absurd simile with my characters on screen and that of the real.

It is a shame that the mettle of my comment was not put across in the context of its entirety, thereby bisecting the thought and making it weak.

<b>Oh ! You geniuses of the f-estate, read what and where the feeling emerges from. I say, there is pain and anguish in what unfolds in front of me. Of the horror and magnitude of the incident. And I say, there is futility in the media request for me to express something, to bring, in their words, ’solidarity’ and a feeling of ‘togetherness and calm’. I am saying, I will refuse to do that. I will refuse to do that because, other than sounding like another sloppy, oft repeated, cliched, TRP gaining statement, I will be doing nothing else.

INSTEAD. I am saying, order me to join the millions of Indians to walk into the facility of action to face the bullet, to face the enemy and I shall be the first to walk.</b>

And you dear paper master, cannot and will not read the sentiment behind it and you will ignore it !

When I say that I am ashamed of performing an act I have never enacted before, that of pulling out my gun and putting it under my pillow, it is far far removed from your myopic and small-minded interpretation that I do so out of fear. If I had fear I would not volunteer to walk into the bullet along with the millions of my countrymen.

The act of pulling out my revolver is a symbolic metaphor, a figure of speech, to demonstrate my complete loss in faith in the system and in the governance, in providing me, a citizen of India, with my rightful sense of security. It is to demonstrate that now I shall have to personally look after my family and myself and not depend on the state. A state that is just so miserably incapable of protecting its citizens.

AND.. dear pen-pencil pusher, it is also to state, that the level of my tolerance and belief has been breached to such an extent that, were the perpetrator to mess with me and get close enough, I would not hesitate to use said, revolving, six gun facility !!

Respondents on my blog taunt and subject me to mockery and derision. They haughtily exhale that were they to be in my position they would have shown me what needed to be done ! One Pankaj in particular, expounds briefly but repeatedly.

Well Pankaj, pardon my immodesty, but, GET to where I am first and then show us what you wish to express in given situation. You are cynical of the security that surrounds me and that despite that, my need for greater protection persists. Let me tell you dear friend, no amount of security is ever going to be enough. Assassinations of some of the greatest and most important leaders of the world is ample proof of how inadequate protection can become. I keep my security according to my own assessment of my vulnerability. When you will wear my shoes, and I do hope that you do one day, you shall also be subjected to the kind of vulnerability that I and many others like me face each day. Perhaps then you would be better placed to appreciate the hollowness of your accusation !

Dear Pankaj and all others that think like him, know and understand that this is a nation in anger !! To witness live the merciless and inhuman mutilation of our innocent brothers and sisters and children is a sight that we shall never ever forget.

<b>I lament the way in which friends and close well wishers urge the people of this country to stand up and show solidarity by lighting a candle in our windows; by showing strength of revolt in collecting in the evening hours at the Gateway of India, in showing a body of co operation and togetherness.

NO !! Excuse me ! I will not do that !

Had they not been friends, I would have been ruder.</b>

This is no time to demonstrate gesture. This is the time for me to listen to a leader that shall strongly assure me of what needs to be done and will do it ! This is the time for each citizen of this country to act and behave in a dictated disciplined profile. This is the time for those that lead, to educate us all in a common curriculum bearing a common code of conduct. A code that shall bind us all as one collective strength. If the invader has been psychologically brain washed into believing that what he is doing to us is ordained through divine intervention, then let him face 1.2 billion brains that have been ordained in unison to ‘teach’ him how horribly wrong he is.

For too long we have remained the servile submissive nation. There has been no strong adjective to describe our character. When you meet an Indian abroad and when you ask where he is from he invariably states the State he comes from, not the country. A motorist on a street in Mumbai will willingly open the door of his car and decorate the road with his colorful mucus lined spit. Same motorist in Singapore will not dare to perform similar feat. A cyclist at 2 in the morning on a deserted street in London shall respect the red light at a signal and wait for it to turn green before crossing it. He not only depicts discipline, he reflects the character of his country. Here even in the busiest moments of the day, the red light at a crossing is an indicator to ‘GO’ !!

You know why the Indian Cricket team has had its phenomenal run of successes in recent times ? Its because it has shown character and attitude. Yes, of course it has the talent, but its body language and behavior on the pitch is rattling the opponent. When a Gambhir elbows his response to continuous sledging of the foulest tongue, I like that. It is a fault and it is up for penalization, but I simply loved his statement thereafter, that he ‘did not regret doing it’. When a Harbhajan challenges a Symonds and walks up to exchange words, when Yuvraj back answers his English opponent and follows it up with 6 sixes in one over, it shows character.

These are perhaps insignificant and obscure examples, but it is from these examples that greater and bigger examples follow. I shall never forget the most pathetic performance of our team at a Test at Lords many years ago. We were all out for a measly 48 runs or so. I was there in the stadium and was invited to the commentary box and asked to say a few words. What does one say about your team in a situation like this ? I shall never forget the humiliating abuse from English fans as I walked out from there. But I know that when I shall visit England again in the near future, I shall walk the Oxford Street with huge superiority because of the hammering that we have just given them in the ODI’s, under the most competent and aggressive leadership of Dhoni.

In closing..

A UK based mobile, I know not who, sends me a condolence message on the recent events in Mumbai, expressing regret and quoting the words of a Hindi song for me to behold.

The Lata Mangeshkar immortal song sung at an event in New Delhi soon after the war with China, and one that brought tears in the eyes of our first Prime Minister, Jawaharlal Nehru present there -

‘aye mere watan ke logon, zara aankh may bhar lo paani,
jo shaeed huwei hain unki zara yaad karo kurbani….

I have the highest regard and respect for those brave jawans that gave up their lives in the last few days, so that we could be secure and I do respect the emotions in the song, which coerce me to fill my eyes with tears for those who sacrificed their lives for the nation..

but with respect, I wish to fill my eyes today with flaming anger of the redness of the blood of the innocents of my countrymen !

Amitabh Bachchan

http://bigb.bigadda.com/

[Pandyan]

<!--QuoteBegin-Hauma Hamiddha+Dec 1 2008, 09:45 PM-->QUOTE(Hauma Hamiddha @ Dec 1 2008, 09:45 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->Pandyan where did you get that brilliant Mullahs in action picture from? Can I use it. I wish those candle kissers get their meeting with the friendly momeen saif-ud-deen (=sword of Islam).
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I don't remember where I got them. I saw it a while ago and saved it on my comp. You can definitely use it. Riot photo is from Amarnath land transfer controversy.

Candle kissers I got from here.

http://www.boston.com/bigpicture/2008/12/m...ke_has_cle.html

[Guest]

<b>Legislators laugh insensitively</b>

Hyderabad Dec. 1: <b>Several members laughed, stood in groups and chatted when the Assembly was discussing the Mumbai terror attack and a motion condoling the death of civilians, police and Army personnel on Monday</b>. Despite this, speaker after speaker expressed concern over the image of the politicians falling after the terror attack and seemed to wonder why it was so. <b>The Chief Minister, Dr Y.S. Rajasekhar Reddy, burst into laughter more than once</b>, reacting to something that the panchayat raj minister, Mr J.C. Diwakar Reddy was saying. The Congress MLAs, Mr K. Venkata Reddy, Mr N. Diwakar Rao and whip Mr D. Sridhar Babu were engrossed in a discussion at the back benches.

On the Opposition side, the Telugu Desam legislators, Mr D. Narendra, Mr K. Achannaidu and Mr P. Keshav chatted gaily. Disregarding the solemnity of the occasion, several members went up to the Chief Minister with petitions and pleas, a common practice at other times. This was too much for Speaker, Mr K.R. Suresh Reddy, who told the members to leave the House if they were not participating in the debate. He had to remind the legislators that the House was working on a condolence motion.

“Please do not stand. Resume your seats,” the Speaker said. “Leave the House if you are not participating in the debate. We are on a condolence motion.” For the record, the House did fall silent after the Speaker’s admonishment, The usual chattering continued aftewards, however. During the debate on condolence motion on demise of former prime minister V.P. Singh, Mr Manikya Vara Prasad (Congress, Tadikonda) did not leave opportunity to shower praises on Dr Reddy.

Maintaining that he had a great liking for prime ministers Jawaharlal Nehru, Indira Gandhi and V.P. Singh the MLA went on to say twice — that the Chief Minister’s programmes reflected Indira Gandhi’s efforts to uplift the poor. The TD deputy floor leader, Mr Nagam Janardhan Reddy, gestured to the Speaker, wondering what was going on

[Guest]

Disgusting politicians... After watching Vilasrao deshmukh, Patil(s), AP legislators insensitivity, Kerala CM's behavior and on and on, there is only one language they understand - much like jihadis understand only one language. Not voting them out, but dragging them out on the streets, sans their security, and give a solid body massage <!--emo&:bcow--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/b_cowboy.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='b_cowboy.gif' /><!--endemo-->

As long as I ranting, venting, does anyone here understand napunsak Manmohan Singh? I try so hard, for the life me, I cannot understand wtf he says...
<!--emo&:argue--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/argue.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='argue.gif' /><!--endemo-->

[dhu]

MMS is milder version of Khushwant Singh. I remember reading a joke book by Khushwant when growing up. Joke book had a ribald case of american soldiers in vietnam refering to vietnamese woman as bowlegged or something similar. these types get huge kick out of narratives of colonial humiliation.

[Guest]

See Pakistan was so clever they welcomed Sikhs to control Gurdwara, now India can't stop train service because Sikhs want to visit their Gurdwara.

[Guest]

<!--QuoteBegin-k.ram+Dec 2 2008, 07:59 AM-->QUOTE(k.ram @ Dec 2 2008, 07:59 AM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->Disgusting politicians... After watching Vilasrao deshmukh, Patil(s), AP legislators insensitivity, Kerala CM's behavior and on and on, there is only one language they understand - much like jihadis understand only one language. Not voting them out, but dragging them out on the streets, sans their security, and give a solid body massage 

As long as I ranting, venting, does anyone here understand napunsak Manmohan Singh? I try so hard, for the life me, I cannot understand wtf he says...
[right][snapback]91265[/snapback][/right]<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Give these Islamic lovers Islamic treatment, Hang them near India Gate and let public come stone them or spit on them or slap them with sleepers.

Regarding Manmohan Singh, my uncle was his student when ManMohan used to teach in Hoshiarpur College. He was zero as teacher, only Parrot one book written by local guy. Student always had good time making fun of him.

[dhu]

These are few articles needed to contextualize Sandhya Jain's train of thought about possible western involvement: (Titles are misleading)

Sub-prime scam behind Spitzer fall

Soros and the Democratic Party

Twin Tower façade

Her pioneer articles were removed when pioneer site was reformatted.

[Guest]

I have read the ideas presented here.I find some of the ideas to be worng.

First thing is our Intelligence department has to be improved and some serious measures to be taken like the ruling parties should not use them to spy on opposition and stop revengful politics which are carried by both Congress and BJP(equally share the sin) .

second thing is that the senior posts in RAW,CBI,IB should be given to able persons but not those who are favourable to the ruling party.

while this is one thing that government should do as citizens of India lets stop dividing ourselfs on base of religion.I have seen some posting above saying
"If he sleep well, majority of Hindus died in Mumbai and killers are Muslim or if he lose sleep, it means rest of India will have sense of relief."

why do u add religion to a killer?Irrespective of which religion he follows he is a terrorist. People died in Mumbai are Indians.Thats all the fact we need to recognise and who ever it is we need to fight against to save our Indians(either hindu or muslim or christians or any other religion).

Political leaders (I blame Congress and BJP equally for it) are divinding the nation in the name of religion(Hindu.Muslim)or in the name of region(Marathas and north indians ) for their vote banks.Its time we rise beyond these horizons and show them that its time to stop these cheap politics which really hurts India worst than terrorism.

If we are destroying our people and our public property in the name of religion or region , I think our neighbouring countries will far be happy for we are making their terrorist jobs more easy.

At this time the most important thing is change ourselves and spread the spirit of Unity in our neighbourhood that we are one nation and Indians and nothing can take precendence over it.

[Bodhi]

<!--QuoteBegin-vinodreddy gade+Dec 2 2008, 12:21 PM-->QUOTE(vinodreddy gade @ Dec 2 2008, 12:21 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->why do u add religion to a killer?Irrespective of which religion he follows he is a terrorist.
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yeah... thank you. put some sense inside these fanatical Hindu terrorists of this forum! they don't listen.

so let us talk about that "terrorist-having-no-religion". why is he a terrorist? What is it that makes him a terrorist? What is he fighting for/against? You kill one terrorist, and many more are born - what is creating them? terrorists are killed but their idea lives on... what is that 'idea' that must be killed, do you know?

[Pandyan]

<!--QuoteBegin-vinodreddy gade+Dec 2 2008, 02:51 AM-->QUOTE(vinodreddy gade @ Dec 2 2008, 02:51 AM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->
while this is one thing that government should do as citizens of India lets stop dividing ourselfs on base of religion.I have seen some posting above saying
                "If he sleep well, majority of Hindus died in Mumbai and killers are Muslim or if he lose sleep, it means rest of India will have sense of relief."<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You should read carefully before replying. Those posts are nothing but a reflection of what Indian PM himself believes. He was the one who said he had lost sleep over the detention of Mohammad Haneef (Muslim terrorist) in Australia. Apparently, torture and illegal imprisonment of Sadhvi Pragya or all these terrorist attacks on Hindus over the last few years have had him snoozing like a baby.

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->why do u add religion to a killer?Irrespective of which religion he follows he is a terrorist. People died in Mumbai are Indians.Thats all the fact we need to recognise and who ever it is we need to fight against to save our Indians(either hindu or muslim or christians or any other religion).<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Maybe you should watch some news before coming and vomiting your puke all over here. No one here has any control over anything, its the terrorists themselves who have acted upon the tenets of their religion. If you cared to read some history or the koran, maybe you would know this. If religion doesn't play a role in this, why did they selectively target and kill Hindus and Jews? Why was a Turkish Muslim family let off?

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->At this time the most important thing is change ourselves and spread  the spirit of Unity in our neighbourhood that we are one nation and Indians and nothing can take precendence over it.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
yea go light some candles.

[Bodhi]

<span style='color:red'>Mumbai attack was a jihadi fundraiser</span>
December 02, 2008 14:30 IST

The Mumbai terror-attacks of November 26-29 was as much about fund-raising for the jihadist cause as it was about maintaining the drumbeat of terror that has been a constant this year, says Namrata Goswami, Associate Fellow at the Institute for Defense Studies and Analyses, the New Delhi-based think tank.
Goswami was cited in a USA Today report making the game-changing claim that the Mumbai attack was executed by indigenous terrorists seeking to impress Islamist militants worldwide, earn a reputation and establish a linkage with Al Qaeda [Images] in order to attract foreign sponsors.

That, says Goswami, is only half true. "What I said was that the attack showed a convergence of external and internal operatives; I did not say it was carried out solely by indigenous terrorists. But yes, the other part, about fundraising, I did say that.

"This latest attack was a corporate performance," Goswami argues. "Three days of terror, beamed live to living rooms around the country and transmitted around the world. There's a lot of money in it, and an attack of this kind usually sees a spike in sponsorships and donations from abroad."

Efficiency was a hallmark of the attacks -- thorough reconnaissance, highly detailed planning and almost near-perfect execution. The attackers held a sizeable contingent of India's top commandos at bay for the best part of three days, with their attack beamed blow by blow all around the world. "And consider this -- they had maps of the Taj Mahal Hotel [Images], that is confirmed; but the National Security Guard commandos who were going up against them had no maps to work from, as Director General J K Dutt pointed out."

All of that adds to the sort of "impressive" performance that goes down well with jihad sympathisers, and unlocks cheque books, Goswami points out. Terrorist groups need a constant influx of funds, and typically, highly publicised attacks are the best trigger for fresh inflows of capital.

But sponsors also need a receiver, and absent some organisation standing up and taking responsibility for the attack, how would a potential donor know where to send funds?

"The machinery of jihad has a transactional mechanism of its own," Goswami says. "It has an information-disseminating machinery, and a mechanism to tap into donors and harvest funds. That for instance is where the e-mails come in, the ones that go out before each attack.

"The word mujahideen is a constant, and like a coded signature. Within the network of jihadis and their sympathisers, everyone will know, or be told, who the perpetrators are. They are not looking to tap into the random public; as long as the network of donors knows who is responsible, they have accomplished their objective."

The scary part, says Goswami, is that the most recent attacks are clearly the handiwork of a small, well trained and motivated cell guided by a larger terror network and leadership -- and the network and leadership is still at large.

That, says the IDSA analyst, is the biggest danger since it raises the possibility that the attack will be replicated across urban India, with each target picked for great vulnerability and great visibility. Goswami identifies Ahmedabad [Images], New Delhi [Images], Lucknow and Raipur as likely targets for the near future. "And any attack on Raipur by such outfits would have added danger, given the proximity of Naxalite-affected areas in Bastar and Dantewada districts in the state of Chandigarh," says the analyst, whose area of speciality is primarily the strife-torn northeast.

If the danger is so clear and present, what then is the solution? A start, Goswami argues, can be made if we stop blindly condemning politicians or, at least, suggesting that they are solely responsible for the problem. "That is bad analysis, to suggest the Mumbai attacks are solely attributable to bad politics. And bad analysis produces worse solutions," she argues.

In her opinion, massive intelligence failure is the core problem -- and it is not confined to the top of the intelligence tree, but goes all the way down to the operational street level. "A common misconception is that the process is homogenous," she says. "How it really works is, intelligence agencies acquire information, and share it with a whole host of agencies -- the home ministry at the Centre and in the concerned states, the police and a whole heap of other groupings at the Centre and state levels.

"These agencies investigate independently. Firstly, this produces duplication and wastes time and in the case of terrorism, time is crucial since there is little leeway between alert and the actual strike. Secondly, in such a situation there is the possibility of each agency thinking the other one is on top of the situation, with the result no one is holding the ball."

That explains, says Goswami, why recent attacks have been accompanied by analysis that the attacks could have been prevented if proper action was taken -- that is true enough; only, since the systemic structure remains the same, there is no likelihood of a different outcome next time.

All of that argues a change -- of the kind the government is currently contemplating. But will a central investigative/intelligence agency of the kind now being mooted solve anything -- especially given that such a nodal role is what the National Security Advisor and his office was supposed to be performing anyway?

"You are right when you say that the NSA has the coordinating role," Goswami says. "But it appears more and more likely that just having the NSA is not enough for a more focused integration of intelligence.

"The gathering and assessment of intelligence is not an easy task. For that, you require trained groups of personnel all along the intelligence hierarchy right to the lowest level, with a supreme amount of motivation at all levels and guided by a focused leadership.

"Remember, we are dealing with a very highly motivated terror force. A federal intelligence coordinating agency is a good idea, as we are face terror attacks across the country which knows no borders. Turf wars between various arms of the security forces and between the states and the Centre actually weakens our response. A coordinated intelligence wing will not only gather intelligence data at all levels but will also be reporting to one higher up who will consequently spell out a singular assessment of a particular threat scenario. At present, because of multiple agencies involved in intelligence assessment, threat scenarios differ.

"Take the example of the seemingly different intelligence available with the Coast Guard, the Navy and the Mumbai police in the coastal borders just before the bomb blasts. Such confused intelligence is not acceptable to a nation facing a common threat, to have its security agencies bickering over who has the best intelligence threat assessment."

http://www.rediff.com/news/2008/dec/02muma...-fundraiser.htm

[Guest]

<!--QuoteBegin-Bodhi+Dec 2 2008, 05:01 AM-->QUOTE(Bodhi @ Dec 2 2008, 05:01 AM)<!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-vinodreddy gade+Dec 2 2008, 12:21 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(vinodreddy gade @ Dec 2 2008, 12:21 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->why do u add religion to a killer?Irrespective of which religion he follows he is a terrorist.
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yeah... thank you. put some sense inside these fanatical Hindu terrorists of this forum! they don't listen.

so let us talk about that "terrorist-having-no-religion". why is he a terrorist? What is it that makes him a terrorist? What is he fighting for/against? You kill one terrorist, and many more are born - what is creating them? terrorists are killed but their idea lives on... what is that 'idea' that must be killed, do you know?
[right][snapback]91276[/snapback][/right]
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Terrorist seeks to achieve his goals by terrorizing his enemies. So Who said "I have been made victorious with terror."? Google it.

My Webpage

[Husky]

<!--QuoteBegin-vinodreddy gade+Dec 2 2008, 12:21 PM-->QUOTE(vinodreddy gade @ Dec 2 2008, 12:21 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->Irrespective of which religion he follows he is a terrorist. People died in Mumbai are Indians.[right][snapback]91275[/snapback][/right]<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd--><b>By the same logic, vinodreddy gade will next say that:</b>

- the Hindus who were murdered by the islamics in Kashmir were merely "Kashmiris" genocided by "other Kashmiris". Because vinod finds it unsecular to give recognition to the truth of how it was not mere 'random inexplicable' genocide, but rather *religiously motivated* (and therefore <i>targeted</i>) genocide.

- both the christian nazis who genocided the Jews during (and for 1.7 millennia prior to) the nazi Holocaust, as well as the Jewish victims of this christoterorrism, were all merely "German/European citizens". Vinod wants the future to have no idea as to why 6 million "Europeans" were killed by many "other Europeans" around WWII.

- the 150/200 millions of traditional native Americans were murdered by *christians* from Europe. Vinod wants history to record that the Americans sadly killed the Americans.

- the history of the million orthodox christian Serbs systematically *butchered* by the catholic nazis of Croatia (called ustashe) in the WWII period should actually be designated as christians who were killed by other christians for some "incomprehensible" reason. Or merely as Yugoslavians met their deaths at the hands of other Yugoslavians - the same way that many an American meets their death at the hands of a burglar - but in wartime Yugaslavia's case, at the rate of about 1,000,000 people in just a few conspicuous years. Like Stalin, vinod want thems to be a statistic. But, More Stalin Than Stalin Himself, vinod would hide the actual reasons for the odd death toll statistic by concealing the religio-ethnic identities of the Yugoslavians involved.

- the christian terrorists terrorising South Korean Buddhists today are actually Koreans burning their own Buddhist temples. In fact, Vinod does not want the history books to mention any Buddhist temples. He will have it that they are Koreans burning their own buildings, that they're arsonists "for kicks" rather than the truth: that it is the specifically *christian*-motivated destruction of Buddhist places of worship.

- even though the overwhelming number of the 3 million Bangladeshis genocided by *islam* in the early 70s were *Hindu* (officially 80% of the victims) and a large number of the remainder were Buddhists - that it was merely "Bangladeshis" who fell on their own swords, raped themselves and were brutally tortured and massacred by their own hands. Such history-writing - careful as it is about avoiding certain flammable sentiments - will make Vinod feel safe and secure from "the tyranny of unsecular communal" truth-speak. Because truth obviously hurts Vinod.

- the many cases of islamic terrorists beheading Thai Buddhists or islamics blowing Thai Buddhists up are, once again, only examples of "some southeast Asians killing other southeast Asians for no apparent reason whatsoever". Vinod wants the future to remember that this uni-directional violence and terrorism in fact must have had no direction whatsoever and was just like rabies apparently: "indiscriminate madness" that occasionally affected unnamed/unnameable entities for reasons wholly mystifying.

<b>This is, after all, your (Vinod) very intention in concealing both the identity of the victims and the identity of the perpetrators of terrorism.</b> In reality, the ideological leanings/identity of criminals most certainly *matters* when these happen to be the actual driving force/impetus behind their terrorism. With your arguments to cover up just that, however, you are essentially declaring that you want the future to confuse the victims with the criminals: that "Indians blew up Indians", when it was specifically muslim terrorists who are expressly terrorising a Hindu nation - just as it was the islamic Aurangzeb, islamic Ghori, islamic Timur,... the christian Portuguese, christian French and the christian British who genocided our Hindu ancestors.
And like the communist and christian apologists for the historical genocides conducted by islamism and christianism, you are (and would like to fashion others into becoming) an apologist for ideological terrorism.

Communists and christoislamics always want to keep the religion and religious motivations of the genociders hidden, as also the religious adherence of the victims. That's because christoislamicommunazis are always on the side of the perpetrators - or, more particularly, because they themselves are (members of the ideology of) the perpetrators. They therefore go to great lengths in their propaganda against history/facts, and do everything in their power to convince people by arguing most psecularly (i.e. using doublespeak) that the genocided population should not name the genociders for what they are. Because, say the apologists, that would be "irresponsible", "morally wrong", "communal", "finger-pointing", a "blame-<i>game</i>" that will foster "ill-will" which "surely, we don't want" (forgetting that the ill-will was already there - fostered by the bible and koran - and started off very uni-directionally too and will continue unabated because the intolerance is inherent in christianism and islam).

They (as also you) are essentially arguing that "the genociders and the genocided are all the same; they have the same experiences". That is what such apologists - history-whitewashers, history-rewriters - would like the future to think as well: to create confusion as to What Really Happened and To Whom and By Whom.

You are advocating a whitewashing of history, the same that was attempted with the historical record of the wartime genocide in Yugoslavia. People who advocate psecularism=whitewashing of incontrovertible facts because it is inconvenient for their purposes or because they imagine it gives 'offense'/'discomfort' to their unaffected sensibilities (they are not the ones butchered after all), are *complicit* in the crimes they defend/seek to bury through calculated use of non-identifiable, non-distinguishable terms ("Indians") purged of factual, identifiable designations. That is, concealing a crime makes one a criminal in the eyes of the law as well. You have committed a crime against truth in arguing for the psecularisation of facts merely because you find facts/truth to be in the way of your sensibilities/purposes.

Those who value truth will not shrink from stating what is factual. But facts are of the greatest inconvenience for communists and christoislamic terrorists - because their aim is always to rewrite history, to write themselves into history as neutral bystanders or victims *exactly there* where they had been the aggressors - and thereby relieve themselves and their religion of its guilt.

<!--QuoteBegin-vinodreddy gade+Dec 2 2008, 12:21 PM-->QUOTE(vinodreddy gade @ Dec 2 2008, 12:21 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->vinodreddy gade: why do u add religion to a killer?[right][snapback]91275[/snapback][/right]<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->Because the killers in these cases give their religion and gawd as *reason* for committing their genocide. Because these killers generally say loudly that they will kill you for their allah, that they will conquer your land for christ and then proclaim to the world that they are faithful christians and faithful muslims.

For example, after the many christian vandalisms of Korea's Bauddha temples (images at link), this is what a proud Korean christian priest said of the faithful terrorism of the Korean christians:
http://www.buddhapia.com/eng/tedesco/pic1/list.html
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->"If I acted on what I believed I, too, could have vandalized temples. When I consider those who commit such acts I think to myself that they have a much stronger faith than me."
-- Deacon Lee Bahn-Sung "a former Buddhist turned Christian", BBC-World (TV), Asia Today, May 21, 1999.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->The christoislamic tends to quote directly from its koran-babble for its murderous arguments. For example:

1. People have to ask themselves why the christians, both in medieval Europe and during the invasions of the Americas, dashed babies against rocks/dashed babies brains out (a couple of examples here, and another one here). The reason is straightforward: it's all straight from the bible where their gawd commands/commits the same. And *that's* where they learnt it from.

2. Why do muslims behead kaffirs? (This is what they frequently did to the ancient "infidels" of Pars and Bharatam, and what they still do to today's "infidels" in Bauddha Thailand for instance.) Because that is how their koran tells muslims to deal with the "kaffirs".

3. Why do christoislamis advocate the inhumane barbarity of stoning adulterers to death? (Here are some examples of islamics stoning adulterers, and of christianists in America advocating the same.) The answer is that this what their bloodthirsty non-existent gawd jeebusjehovallah wants them to do to adulterers and gay people.


<!--QuoteBegin-vinodreddy gade+Dec 2 2008, 12:21 PM-->QUOTE(vinodreddy gade @ Dec 2 2008, 12:21 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->vinodreddy gade: Thats all the fact we need to recognise and who ever it is we need to fight against to save our Indians(either hindu or muslim or christians or any other religion).[right][snapback]91275[/snapback][/right]<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->No.
<b>The fact we need to recognise is that the terrorism is *ideological*</b>. It does not matter how much you may want others to remain in the dark about this until it kills us off, but it does not change the fact that the terror *has* a religion - <i>worldwide</i> it has a religion.
This religious terror is variously known as christianism, islamism, communism, nazism/fascism (the latter being a sub branch of christianism, though nazism had faithful islamic adherents too as Yugoslavian history records). These ideologies of terror are all part of the same family of mindviruses (christoclass mindviruses).

[Guest]

Kerala CM insults slain Major's dad
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Kerala's home minister Kodiyeri Balakrishnan, who visited his Bangalore home on Sunday, Achuthanandan retorted that "<b>not even a dog would have visited the house</b>'' <b>had it not been the martyr's</b>. <!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Here's some salt+mirchi to sooth the injury.
With leaders like Achuthanandan do we need to worry about about Paki terrorists?