Attack in Mumbai -2

12-15-2008, 12:22 AM

QUOTEWe're told to take hostages & make demands: Ajmal
pioneer.com
PTI | Mumbai
The terrorists, who carried out the dastardly attack in Mumbai, had been instructed by their masters in Pakistan to take hostages and make demands through the media, according to the lone surviving suspect Mohammad Ajmal Amir.

Ajmal's statement recorded by Mumbai police gives details of the intensive training given to 10 terrorists who killed 183 people when they struck this metropolis on the evening of November 26. Actually 32 young men were trained initially out of which five teams of two each were dispatched for Mumbai from Karachi three days earlier via sea.

According to police sources, Ajmal has stated that originally they were instructed to carry out firing at rush hours in the morning between 7 and 11 am and the same hours in the evening.

The plan was to kidnap some persons and take them to the roof of some nearby building, the 21-year-old resident of Faridkot village in Pakistan's Punjab province has said.

From there, the terrorists were to contact "chacha" (uncle), their trainer whose full name is Zaqi-Ur-Rahman 'chacha'.

The 'chacha' is obviously Zaki-Ur-Rahman Lakhvi, chief of operations of Lashkar-e Toiba (LeT), one of the four persons declared terrorists last week by the UN Security Council, which had also designated Jamaat-ud Dawa (JuD) and two of its sister organisations, Al-Rashid Trust and Al-Akhtar Trust, as terrorist groups.

"After that chacha would give the telephone or mobile numbers of the electronic media. We were then to contact the media persons on the same phone," Ajmal said

As per 'chacha's' instructions, the terrorists would then make demands for releasing the hostages. This was the general strategy by their trainers.

Police sources said the fact that the terrorist duo that opened fire in the CST station did not take any hostages or make any demands indicates either their plot went wrong or their masterminds might have misled them into believing that once they took hostages they can make demands for their own exit from India.

On that pretext they would have been coaxed into believing that even after they create the mayhem there are chances of their escaping from India.

The date fixed for the operation was September 27 this year. However, the operation was cancelled for some reason. They stayed in Karachi where they made practice of travelling by speed boats on the sea. They stayed there up to November 23, three days before the launch of the attack in Mumbai.

On November 23 the five teams of two each, including Ajmal's, left from Azizabad, Karachi along with Zaki-Ur-Rehman and another person.

"We were taken to the nearby sea shore. At 0415 hours we reached the sea shore. At the sea shore we boarded a launch. After travelling for 22 to 25 nautical miles we met a bigger launch in the sea. We boarded the said launch and after journey of one hour we boarded a bigger ship by name Al-Huseini in the deep sea," says Ajmal.

While boarding the said ship each one of them was given a sack containing eight grenades, one A K 47 rifle, 200 cartridges, two magazines and one cell phone for communication. Then they started towards the Indian coast

Ajmal, who had studied up to the 4th standard, intended to be a robber for which purpose he was looking for fire arms, the search that led to Lashkar-e-Toiba stalls at Raja Bazaar in Rawalpindi on Bakr-Id.

Excerpts from Ajmal's statement to the police:

After making enquiries we reached LeT office. In the LeT office we met a person. We told him that we wanted to join LeT. He made some enquiry with us, noted our names and address and told us to come on the next day.

On the next day we went to LeT office and met the same man. One more person was present with him. He gave us Rs 200 and some receipt. Then he gave us the address of a place called Marqas Taiyyaba, Muridke, and told us to go to the said place where LeT is having their training camp. As directed we went to the said place. We showed the receipt given to us at the gate of the camp. We were allowed inside. At the entry gate our details were filled up on two forms. Then we were taken to the actual camp area.

At the said place we were selected for 21 days training called Daura-Safa, from the next day, we started attending training. After completion of the above said training, we were selected for another training called Daura-Ama.

The said training was also for 21 days. We were then taken in a vehicle to a place called Mansera, Bhuttal village. At the said place we were given training of all weapons for 21 days.

After two months of training, I was allowed to go to meet my parents. I stayed with my parents for one month. Thereafter, I went to LeT camp situated at Shaiwainala, Muzaffarbad, for further advanced training. At that place they took my photographs and filled up some forms. Then we were taken to Chelabandi pahadi area for training called Duara-khas.

The said training was for three months. The training included P.T. (physical training), handling of all weapons and firing practice of the said weapons, training of handling of hand grenade, rocket launchers and mortars.

At the said place 32 persons were present for training. Out of these 32 trainees, 16 were selected for some confidential operation by one Zaki-Ur-Rehman chacha. Out of these 16 trainees, three trainees ran away from the camp. The above said 'chacha' then sent the remaining 13 of us along with a person called Kafa to the above said earlier camp at Muridke.

At Muridke we were taught swimming and getting acquainted with the environment experienced by a fisherman on a sea. We did some experimental tours by launches on the sea. During the said training we were given lectures on working of Indian security agencies. We were shown the clippings highlighting the atrocities on Muslims in India.

At the camp, again we underwent the training of swimming and getting acquainted with the environment and experience on sea. The training continued for one month. During the training we were given lectures on India and its security agencies including RAW.

We were also given the training on how to evade the chase by security personnel. We were strictly instructed not to make phone calls to Pakistan after reaching India.

Victoria Terminus Team. My team included myself and Ismael. Our code name was VTS team. We were then shown the site 'goggle earth' on internet. We were shown the film on VT railway station and the film showing the commuters moving around at rush hours at VT railway station.

After journey of about three days we reached near sea shore of Mumbai. While we were at some distance from the shore, Ismail and Afadulla killed the Indian seaman (Dandle) at the basement of the said Indian launch. Then we boarded inflatable Dinghi and reached Budwar Park Jetty as per the instructions received earlier. After getting down at Budwar Park, I went along with Ismail to VT railway station by taxi. After reaching the hall of VT railway station we, i.E. Ismail and myself went to the common toilet, took out the weapons from our sacks, loaded them, came out of the toilet and started firing indiscriminately towards the passengers.

Suddenly one police officer in uniform came towards us and opened fire. In retaliation we threw hand grenades towards him and also opened fire.

Then we went inside the railway station threatening the commuters and randomly firing at them. Then we came out of the railway station and started searching for a building with roof top. But we did not find a suitable building. Therefore we entered a lane.

When we were coming out of a hospital premises, we suddenly saw one police vehicle passing in front of us. Therefore we took shelter behind a bush. Another vehicle passed in front of us and stopped at some distance.

One police officer got down from the said vehicle and started firing at us. One bullet hit my hand and my AK 47 dropped down. I bent to pick it up when second bullet hit me on the same hand. I got injured. Ismail opened fire at the officers who were in the said vehicle. They got injured and firing from that side stopped.

We waited for some time and then went towards the said vehicle. Three bodies lying there. Ismail removed the three bodies and drove the said vehicle. I sat next to him. Our vehicle got punctured near a big ground by the side of the road.

Ismail got down from the driver seat, stopped a car at the gun point and removed the three lady occupants from the said car. Then Ismail carried me to the car and sat me inside as I was injured. Then he drove the said car.

While we were moving in the car, we were stopped on the road near sea shore. Ismail fired towards them. Some policemen got injured. Police also opened fire towards us. Due to the police firing Ismail got injured. Then police moved us to some hospital. In the hospital I came to know that Ismail succumbed to the injuries he sustained.

Naresh · 12-15-2008, 02:14 AM

Pakistan 'linked to 75% of all UK terror plots', warns Gordon Brown

Cheers <img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/cheers.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='cheers.gif' />

12-15-2008, 02:22 AM

In wake of Mumbai attacks, it's only legitimate to question people who stood with L-e-T and FETNA in past. Email in yahoogroup..
QUOTEIt might be worthwhile to recall the hate-filled role that some Indologists have played vis a vis terrorism in India. Lars Martin Fosse, a Norwegian Indologist, and a moderator of the IER list, has gone on record a few years ago saying that the activities Laskhar e Toiba (which has been implicated in the current Islamic massacre of Indians and foreign tourists in Mumbai) has been incited by Hindu fanatics in India! Sort of a justification for Islamic terror! May be he is privy to some secret information about LeT that we ordinary mortals do not have access to.

Michael Witzel and Stephen Alan Farmer (aka Steve Farmer), who are philogists and comparative historians respectively, and both also moderators of the IER list, collaborated closely with Fetna in 200502006 to oppose Hindu edits in the CA textbook controversy.
FETNA has been accused of terrorism in Sri Lanka and by extension, in India, since FETNA is claimed to be a front for LTTE.

Therefore, let us be always beware of academics with these dangerous terrorism sympathies or associations and keep an eye on them. Their scholarship is not objective as they might claim, and their associations makes one wonder if it is not motivated by deep hatred for their 'objects of study'.



And weasel denies links with shady groups:
QUOTESteve and I are said to have "collaborated with Fetna" (the association of Tamils in America). We did not do so.

However, two of Fetna's (former) members have been accused of organizing a weapons shipment to the Tamil rebels (LTTE) in Sri Lanka (I do not know what has become of that allegation and have no time to check it out).

Yep, no time to check out who's involved in terrorist activity and who's not.
Great going Witzel and sidekick Farmer, pretty convenient eh?

QUOTEOf course, all of these bandhus now make usÂ terrorists:
"collaborated with (a member of)Â Fetna = LTTE = Terrorists..."
Multiple bandhus, the validity of which is zero.

Guilt by (imagined) association.
Well well, how you and your 48 bunnies linking NRIs to those fetus disembowelers in Gujarat you like Weasel? What's good for goose is not good for ganduer?

12-15-2008, 07:57 AM

Terrorists' dead bodies to wait as Pak turns its back
Burn them with Pig fat.

12-15-2008, 08:03 AM

Running while waiting

12-15-2008, 09:33 PM

India will have to fight in its own way
QUOTE---
In international relations, unless you have something to give you don't get anything.
If you have your hat in your hand the only thing you will get is sympathy. If you have your hands in your pocket, you may expect something substantial.
I heard the prime minister has said during his visit to Jammu and Kashmir [Images] that our relations with Pakistan will not improve until it curbs terrorism. But I think unless we are able to say that let Pakistan punish its people who are engaging in terrorism in India and control its army nothing means much.
-----
India will have to fight in its own way. I disagree with the opinion that India doesn't have many options. We had options in 2001 and we have enough options today, but I can't violate the Official Secrets Act and elaborate to you what we did in 2001 and how.
I believe the composite dialogue with Pakistan is already off. But India definitely does have options to respond effectively against the perpetrators of the Mumbai attacks. And no one is talking about war here.

12-15-2008, 10:08 PM

An Urdu poem keeps terrorists going
Some couplets for our Urdu admirers. Not sure if we still have an answer in our language thread about why Avadhi (spoken by bigger group) in UP has lower status than Urdu.

QUOTEA few excerpts from the poem:

Jihad jari rahega ta qayamat, Jihad hargiz naheen rukega ( Jihad will continue till the day of judgment and will not stop).

Jihad farman hai khuda ka, Jihad rasta hai Mustafa ka ( Jihad is the path and order of God)
Zameen [Images] se fitno ka sar hamesha, Jihad hi se qualam huwa hai ( Jihad has cut of evil from this earth)

Jihad hi se zaban milti, Hai aan milti hai bekason ko (Jihad alone gives voice)

Jihad jhooti khudaion ko, ulat kar be abroo karega ( Jihad will make false God become naked)
Jihad se ijtniab hi ne, ghulamion ko janam diya hai ( Avoiding jihad has made us slaves)

Jihad dushman zaleel hoker, Athaah pasti mein ja girega ( enemies of Jihad will sink and will be dishonoured)

12-15-2008, 11:01 PM

Now media want to make them hero.

I was going through all these Kasav investigation leaks by IB in media. Only one outcome, Terrorist handlers planned for small bum bum and bit of teasing to Indian Administration and use media to spread message/agenda. Indian Police just collapsed on first incidence itself. These guys had no plan attacking hospital or making heavy causality but symbolic causality. All three top Indian Police officer were just sitting in car and asked sepoy to shot at terrorist thinking it is a gang war and they were killed just doing nothing. Just shows they were very unprofessional. They were unable to understand situation and poor assessment.
Terrorist changed according to circumstance and able to inflict heavy causality but cause international bashing of Pakistan, but this will live short time.
Now I think, Pakistan will use J&K fundoos to attack some other town and then they can claim this was done by Indians and its freedom struggle. And whole issue will change into Kashmir.

http://www.jamatdawah.org/ is still up and working and gloating even today, Indians can't close them.

ramana · 12-16-2008, 02:26 AM

From the Telegraph, 15 Dec 2008

QUOTERs 127 crore to equip copsÂ
OUR SPECIAL CORRESPONDENTÂ
Mumbai, Dec. 14: Maharashtra police will be modernised at a cost of Rs 127 crore, chief minister Ashok Chavan said today, ahead of the Assemblyâs winter session where the government is likely to come under fire for the Mumbai terror attacks.

Chavan, speaking in Nagpur where the winter session starts tomorrow, said details of the proposals would be disclosed in the Assembly.

The proposals, though, are unlikely to be different from what Chavanâs predecessor, Vilasrao Deshmukh, had announced days before he was forced to quit over the attacks.

He had promised a battalion of 1,000 commandos, the Maharashtra Security Guards, on the lines of the National Security Guard; a state security council, like the national security council; and a state industrial security force, like the CISF.

Other proposals included an intelligence training institute in Pune, 12 coastal police stations in addition to the 24 planned earlier, and purchase of 24 speedboats. The police top brass has mooted plans to procure over 500 AK-47s, helicopters for air surveillance, and advanced weapons.

The police upgrade was cleared at a cabinet meeting earlier today. Sources said the chief minister and his colleagues tried to find ways to blunt expected criticism from the Opposition in the Assembly.

Shiv Senaâs Ramdas Kadam, the leader of the Opposition, alleged today that Mumbai police commissioner Hassan Gafoor slept in his car while his ill-equipped force battled gunmen inside the Oberoi on November 26.

Gafoor denied the allegation, and senior police officers were fuming at what they saw as an attempt to target a Muslim officer. âSuch nasty allegations are being made by the Sena because Gafoor is a Muslim. Which officer can sleep when such a tragedy is taking place?â asked an officer who was part of the operations at the Oberoi and Taj hotels.

Gafoor, he said, was stopped from entering the Oberoi by senior colleagues after ATS chief Hemant Karkare was shot dead. 



So there was acommand failure after the ATS chief was killed. And also if the same comment were made by non Sena person would it be acceptable? The allegation was he wasnt available for hisforce on Nov 26th. There was Pravin Swami article that said a top policeman was lockedup in his own jeep with his aids and didnt pickup his cell phone. Could it be Mr Gafoor who was afraid of being enountered? I think more will come out eventually.

12-16-2008, 02:42 AM

QUOTECould it be Mr Gafoor who was afraid of being enountered? I think more will come out eventually
May be on Dawood Hafta.

12-16-2008, 10:58 AM

Why there could be a surge in jihadi terrorism
B Raman

12-16-2008, 09:42 PM

QUOTEÂ link
Four Jamaâat-ud-Daâawa activists released in PoK 
Authorities in Pakistan occupied Kashmir (PoK) have released four detained workers of the Jamaâat-ud-Daâawa (JuD) and have also withdrawn Police guards from the residence of the groupâs regional head, Dawn reported. Chaudhry Imtiaz, Deputy Commissioner of Muzaffarabad, the PoK capital, told Dawn on December 14 that Police guards had been removed from the residence of Maulana Abdul Aziz Alvi but he had been asked not to leave the area without informing the administration. Maulana Alvi, who heads the PoK chapter of Jamaâat-ud-Daâawa, was put under house arrest in his Karyan village, some 19 kilometers north of Muzaffarabad, on December 11. "He had been placed under house arrest for security reasons. He is still under surveillance and cannot leave the station without prior intimation to the authorities concerned," the Deputy Commissioner (DC) said. Similarly, the DC said, four people taken into custody from a mechanical workshop run by the Jamaâat-ud-Daâawa in Muzaffarabad had also been released because they were merely mechanics. In response to a question, he said there were no instructions from the federal Government to detain the regional or second-line leadership of the JuD. They were concerned about the âtop brassâ and not the regional leadership, he said.

Meanwhile, security agencies continued the crackdown against Jamaâat-ud-Daâawa and arrested 12 workers and sealed its assets in different parts of the NWFP. JuD provincial spokesman Atiq ur Rehman Chohan told Dawn by phone that 12 workers, including Mardan District chief Murad Khan, were arrested on December 13. Chohan while accusing state agencies of torturing JuD workers said that similar raids were also conducted in Abbottabad District and innocent people had been detained. He said that Police had confiscated four motor cycles in Abbottabad main office. In Peshawar, he said Police had sealed Al Dawa Model School in Tehkal area on December 13 which was illegal. "Sealing Dawaâs schools, hospitals and ambulance service will affect only common people and 25,000 workers across the country," he said.
revolving door ritual is over.

12-17-2008, 01:28 AM

link

Beautiful...

QUOTEIndia's Defense Minister Rules Out War with Pakistan
By Steve Herman
New Delhi
16 December 2008
Seeking to dampen persistent media speculation a retaliatory strike is in the works against Pakistan, India's defense minister is declaring no military action is being planned. But he warns Islamabad to act against terrorists on its soil, if it wants normal relations with India.Â Â <img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/ROTFL.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='ROTFL.gif' />

A.K. Antony says war is not an option, as a response to the terror attack on Mumbai.

Antony spoke to reporters in the capital who asked him about troop deployments on the border and reported preparations for military action with Pakistan, against whom India has gone to war three times in 60 years.

"We are not planning any military action," he said.

The defense minister is also denying India plans to end the five-year ceasefire, along the military control line that marks the disputed India-Pakistan boundary in the former princely state, Jammu and Kashmir.

The gunmen who laid siege to Mumbai have been linked to the Pakistani-based Lashkar-e-Taiba, which has led a violent struggle against Indian rule in Kashmir.

Antony says Pakistan must act against those responsible for the Mumbai attack and root out terrorists operating on its soil.

"Unless Pakistan shows sincerity, whatever they are saying, through their actions, one thing is sure - that there is no question of things as usual," he said. {MMS will take the first step again, and run another express train}

Antony made his remarks to reporters following a ceremony to mark the 37th anniversary of India's military victory over Pakistan, which led to the creation of Bangladesh.Â

Pakistani Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani, speaking to the national assembly in Islamabad Monday, said the country's armed forces are "fully prepared and alert."

Gilani says Pakistan does not want war, but, if aggression is imposed on the country, it will defend itself.

Amid the current tension following the Mumbai attacks, the United States and other countries have shuttled top government and military officials between India and Pakistan, hoping to persuade them to avoid military confrontation.

Last month's 60-hour attack on Mumbai by ten radical Islamic gunmen left more than 170 people dead and injured nearly 300 others.

12-17-2008, 01:36 AM

Link

QUOTE
Indian PM Wants 'Normalized' Relations with Pakistan
By Shahnawaz Khan
Srinagar
14 December 2008

India's Prime Minister Manmohan Singh says he wants "normalized" relations with Pakistan, but that Islamabad must stop allowing its territory to be used for terrorist activities against India. Mr. Singh made the statement during an election rally in Indian Kashmir, the Muslim-majority region that has been a focus of tensions with Islamabad.

Prime Minister Singh, who flew to Kashmir early Sunday after meeting British Prime Minister Gordon Brown in New Delhi, said relations with Pakistan cannot be improved unless Pakistan stops allowing its territory to be used for terrorist activities against India.

Mr. Singh says India's desire for normalized relations should not be taken as weakness. wtf does this statement mean? 

Mr. Singh also commented on India's dispute with Pakistan over the divided region of Kashmir. He said that borders cannot be redrawn in Kashmir, but only softened.

Kashmiri separatists, have called for a boycott of the elections, saying they will strengthen India's hold on the Muslim-majority region, and launched a strike in the region Sunday to protest the prime minister's visit.

Anti India sentiment runs deep in Kashmir where an insurgency broke out in 1989. {This is new spin from VOA}

A staggered seven phase election process is under way in Indian-administered Kashmir. An unprecedented number of people have voted in the first five phases, surprising Kashmir analysts. {What happend to Anti India sentiment you mentioned in the very last line?, you jackass}

12-17-2008, 02:17 AM

QUOTEMumbaiâs Butcher and human rights
Pioneer.com
Kanchan Gupta
Now that the din of national outrage over the death and destruction in Mumbai, caused by 10 Pakistani fidayeen of whom one has missed the bus to jannat and thus left 72 gossamer-clad, kohl-eyed houris distraught at being deprived of the privilege of leading him through the pearly gates to the limitless pleasures that lie beyond, human rights activists and their cohorts in media have begun to crawl out of the holes in which they have been hiding since November 26. For the past couple of days, they have been crowding the studios of 24x7 news channels and airing their views dripping with compassion for Ajmal Amir Kasab, also known as, and justifiably so, âThe Butcher of Mumbaiâ.

Displaying utter contempt for the national mood and flaunting their perverse notion of what constitutes justice, they have started demanding that Kasabâs âhuman rightsâ should be protected. There is no evidence as yet to suggest that the âhuman rightsâ of this terrorist are being trampelled upon by an uncaring, cruel state, unless we are to believe that his detention at an undisclosed safe house, in a room with a high ceiling to ensure that he cannot commit suicide, where he is being served wholesome hot meals, amounts to a gross violation of his âhuman rightsâ.

Nevertheless, by way of ample precaution, the New York-based Human Rights Watch, which has been honoured with this yearâs UN Human Rights Prize, has lent its shrill voice to the clamour of the human rights activists. In a statement issued on December 3, while offering gratuitous advice to the Government of India on how to manage its affairs, Human Rights Watch has demanded that investigators should ârespect human rightsâ. As a commentator in The Jerusalem Post has pointed out, âThe HRWâs website lists 38 reports attacking counter-terrorism efforts around the globe but only three on the brutal impact of terrorism on civiliansâ.

Meanwhile, a spurious debate has been initiated by publicity-seeking human rights activists and lawyers, egged on by activist-anchors whose hearts beat for Kasab and his breed and who make a fetish of their appalling ignorance, on whether he should be provided with legal assistance, presumably to prove his innocence in the courts of law. There are aspects to the debate that merit comment.

Kasab will no doubt be tried as per the law of the land after charges have been framed against him. Since we are a law-abiding democracy, the judicial process will not be short-circuited. It is also unlikely that the judges who hear the case will suspend their adherence to the principle, no matter how flawed and disingenuous it may be, that every accused person must be presumed to be innocent until proven guilty.

It is at once a tribute to our criminal justice system and a blot on our collective conscience that a Pakistani who slaughtered citizens of India and has since expressed neither remorse nor regret will appear in court as an âinnocentâ; the state shall have to prove that he is actually guilty of the crime which everybody knows he has committed in full view of innumerable witnesses. But since India is not Saudi Arabia, he will escape decapitation in a public square.

As with other terrorists, for instance, Mohammed Afzal Guru who masterminded the fidayeen attack on Parliament House on December 13, 2001, he will be represented by a lawyer. Which brings us to the question: Whose responsibility is it to ensure that he gets adequate and appropriate legal assistance? Since he is a Pakistani citizen, the responsibility devolves upon the Government of Pakistan. If Islamabad turns away its face, Ms Nandita Haksar and Ms Teesta Setalvad will have the opportunity to defend yet another terrorist. There are other lawyers who are willing to represent Kasab in court despite bar association resolutions preventing them from doing so. Some of them, including Mr Trideep Pais, are on record offering their services because they believe everybody has the right to legal representation and that a lawyer should not be constrained by either the nature or the enormity of the crime his or her client is accused of.

Thatâs a lofty principle and if Kasabâs defenders truly believe in it, they should not be fearful of social ostracism or of being shamed and shunned by their peer group. If it is their right to plead that Kasab is not guilty of the crime of mass murder, or that he does not deserve to be put on the next bus to jannat to keep his date with 72 gossamer-clad, kohl-eyed houris, then citizens have the right to spit on their faces. It is absurd to expect people will felicitate the defenders of Kasab.

There is, however, the other view, which cannot be entirely overlooked in our zeal to uphold the rule of law as we understand it. Does Kasab really qualify to be tried within the matrix of our criminal justice system? As a foreign national, he cannot demand the same privileges that are accorded to Indiaâs citizens and are guaranteed by Indiaâs Constitution. More importantly, he is not a commonplace offender, but an alien âunlawful combatantâ. During a recent television debate, former Solicitor-General Harish Salve described Kasab as a foreign citizen and an âunlawful combatantâ who waged war against the Union of India; since he targeted unarmed civilians, he should be treated as a âwar criminalâ.

The term âunlawful combatantâ, contrary to popular belief, was not coined after 9/11 to justify the detention of suspected jihadis at the American facility in GuantÃ¡namo Bay. It has been in use for a long time and essentially refers to ânon-state actorsâ who wage war against a state. Given the illegality of their action, it is not surprising that neither the Hague nor the Geneva Conventions should refer to âunlawful combatantsâ. Hence, it is ridiculous to invoke the Geneva Conventions, as is being done by those who hope to see Kasab walk free.

So, what do we do in this situation? How should we classify Kasab and his crime? Is he just an alleged murderer? Or is he an alleged terrorist? Or, is he an âunlawful combatantâ who should be tried by a military tribunal? And what will be Kasabâs response when his trial begins?

When Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, the mastermind behind 9/11, and his four co-defendants were presented before the Military Commission at GuantÃ¡namo Bay, they said that they wanted to plead guilty, but only if it served their desired purpose. âIf we plead guilty, can we still be sentenced to death?â Khalid Sheikh Mohammed asked the Military Commission judge responsible for trying the men. The question stumped him and others representing the US Administration: They didnât know how to respond.

What if Kasab were to tell the judge before whom he is presented, with or without legal assistance, âIf I plead guilty, can I still be sentenced to death?â

ramana · 12-17-2008, 04:00 AM

Are HR activists agitated about the shoe thrower in Baghdad?

12-17-2008, 04:14 AM

QUOTE(ramana @ Dec 17 2008, 04:00 AM)Are HR activists agitated about the shoe thrower in Baghdad?
[right][snapback]91903[/snapback][/right]
No, they are not. US left media is so happy, Left bloogers are celebrating early New Year.
This incidence is equivalent to Rajeev Gandhi's visit to SriLanka, when he was hit by rifle butt.

ramana · 12-17-2008, 04:51 AM

QUOTE(Mudy @ Dec 16 2008, 10:44 PM)<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(ramana @ Dec 17 2008, 04:00 AM)Are HR activists agitated about the shoe thrower in Baghdad?
[right][snapback]91903[/snapback][/right]
No, they are not. US left media is so happy, Left bloogers are celebrating early New Year.
This incidence is equivalent to Rajeev Gandhi's visit to SriLanka, when he was hit by rifle butt.
[right][snapback]91904[/snapback][/right]
</div>

From news reports the shoe thrower was beaten up and is in Iraqi custody. And he is a journalist to boot!

How come the HR folk are not agitating at the treatment to the shoe thrower?

ramana · 12-17-2008, 05:03 AM

Two news stories from Pioneer

RAW revamp on cards
QUOTENATION | Wednesday, December 17, 2008 | Email | Print |
RAW revamp on cards
Rakesh K Singh | New Delhi
Now that the Director of Intelligence Bureau PC Haldar relinquishes charge on December 31, the Government has begun to move to spruce up the functioning of the external intelligence agency, Research and Analysis Wing (RAW), believed in the official circles responsible for having failed to track the Pakistani vessel that brought the terrorists into Indian waters for attacking Mumbai last week.

Following the appointment of Special Director of IB Rajiv Mathur as OSD in the agency on December 8, Haldar has been sideline and was not even informed about a high level meeting to review security on Thursday. 

Mathur will officially take charge as Director of the Intelligence Bureau upon superannuation of Haldar on December 31. Mathur attended the weekly security review meeting on Thursday, Government sources said and added that current Intelligence Bureau Director has virtually been relieved of his role in the agency.

The Government is now considering measures to fix up accountability on the top echelons of the external intelligence agency for failing to prevent the Mumbai terror attack late last month despite having at its command an array of technical equipment, including a dedicated spy satellite and UAVs (Unmanned Aerial Vehicles) for surveillance over the land and sea border, officials said.

The other concern is the leakage of classified but not so specific inputs to a section of the media by the Research and Analysis Wing for covering up its failure in developing the skeleton leads prior to the Mumbai attack, the officials said.

However, the delay in any action against the Research and Analysis Wing boss has led to speculation about the play of patrimonial factors in shielding him so far as he is connected to a former Cabinet Secretary who in turn is reportedly having close relation with Prime Minister Manmohan Singh.

A senior Union Home Ministry official said, "If the accountability of the Research and Analysis Wing officials is not fixed then the proposed National Investigation Agency would prove to be futile as the Government will be saddled with yet another non-functional institution."

Reports about coterie culture of top Research and Analysis Wing officials holding sway over the agency for vested interests have also emerged as a major concern for the Government that has been on the dock for poor handling of the internal security in the face of ever increasing terror strikes in the country for the last few years.

Research and Analysis Wing Secretary Ashok Chaturvedi is reportedly using his bungalow in Noida as safe houses of the agency for twin objectives of seeking rent and maintenance from the Government funds.

Chaturvedi has reportedly also allowed his confidantes to enroll their wards on the rolls of the agency in utter disregard of professionalism and national security interests.

The joke was that RAW was called Relatives and Wives Association.

BJP and Sena root for ouster of DGP Roy and others

QUOTESena, BJP root for ouster of DGP Roy, Mumbai Police Commissioner
TN Raghunatha | Mumbai
Castigating the Maharashtra Government for its failure in preventing the recent attack on Mumbai, the Opposition Shiv Sena-BJP alliance on Tuesday vehemently clamoured for the immediate sacking of State Director General of Police AN Roy, City Police Commissioner Hasan Gafoor and Additional Chief Secretary (Home) Chitkala Zutsi for their lapses.

The recent Mumbai mayhem dominated the proceedings of both the Houses of Maharashtra Legislature on the second day of the winter session at Nagpur, with the Opposition saffron alliance members coming down heavily on the Democratic Front (DF) Government for its failure to heed the warnings given by the intelligence agencies about a likely terrorist attack on the country's commercial capital.

Initiating a debate on an adjournment motion moved by the Opposition on the Mumbai attack issue in the State Assembly, leader of Opposition Ramdas Kadam (of the Shiv Sena) singled out Roy, Gafoor and Zutsi for an attack and said that the three officers had done hardly anything to prevent the attack. "The state government should remove these top officers immediately from service," Kadam said.

Hitting out at the state government for its failure to provide sophisticated weapons to the police personnel, Kadam lamented that three senior police officers, including ATS chief Hemant Karkare and Additional Commissioner of Police Ashok Kamate, fell to the bullets of terrorists as they were wearing sub-standard bullet proof jackets. He also said that encounter-specialist Vijay Salaskar, who had in his career gunned down over 75 underworld gangsters, did not have an AK-47 rifle when he set out to take on the terrorists.

Former Deputy Chief Minister and BJP group leader Gopinath Munde also made a strong case for the removal of Roy and Gafoor, saying: "Given that CM Vilasrao Deshmukh and Deputy Chief Minister RR Patil had to resign owning moral responsibility, what is holding the State government from sacking Roy and Gafoor who miserably failed in doing their duty? Their continuance in their posts does not do any good to the morale of the police force in which there are some good and efficient officers," Munde said.

In the Upper House, senior BJP leader Nitin Gadkari minced no words when he took on the state government on specific issues. Among other things, Gadkari said that the state government had failed to act on the warnings it was receiving from time to time -- since November 2006 to as late as November 22, 2008. "So specific were warning from the intelligence agencies that they had hinted at the possibility of an attack from the Lashkar-e-Taiba (LeT). Still nothing was done by both the state government and the police department to prevent the November 26,2008 Mumbai attack," Gadkari said. Gadkari said it was sheer negligence on the part of the city and State police top brass that had contributed to the Mumbai attack. The BJP leader also demanded an inquiry into the improper utilization of funds provided by the Centre to tackle the likely terror attacks by sea routes.

The BJP leader said that an independent police training cadre -- with a separate budget and special allowances- be created by hiring the retired army officers to impart training to policemen.

So the official in his jeep at time of attack is most likely Mr Gafoor.

Bodhi · 12-17-2008, 08:11 AM

QUOTE(ramana @ Dec 17 2008, 04:00 AM)Are HR activists agitated about the shoe thrower in Baghdad?
[right][snapback]91903[/snapback][/right]


HR should stands for "Harassment & Revenge"!

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