BJP Future - 6

[Guest]

<!--QuoteBegin-Shambhu+Dec 17 2008, 08:27 PM-->QUOTE(Shambhu @ Dec 17 2008, 08:27 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->The current BJP has over the years lost effectiveness. Still, we need to get BJP in ar the center for 2 reasons:

1. It is still better than the congress on conversion/terror issues (not by much, but still better)

2. We can always improve BJP of 2014 to be better than BJP of 2009. But this needs to be done while BJP 0f 2009 is at the center.

See how muslims consolidate power? They will take an inch when they get it, that will patiently wait for the whole mile. We need to show the same hard-headedness, and not blow up out small gains with infighting.
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Shambuji,

I hope your wishes come true. But you should also use the 'what if' tool!

Getting Jaya and Maya who are sure to win big and Chandra Babu Naidu to some extent away from the Congress and the Communists might require the sacrifice of the P.M. post on the part of the BJP. I loathe to ask the question 'will the BJP?' for the simple reason that it is incoherent and corruption ridden that Maino might use her money to split the party.

What do we have in store in the next six months?

[shamu]

> it is incoherent and corruption ridden

I would agree with incoherent thing, what is the corruption thing you are talking about?

Finally, it depends on how many seat do UPA and NDA get after the election. If NDA has more, it can easily wean away Jaya, Maya and Naidu from communist hands.

Your idea of alternate Hindu party is not going to work, effort should be to clean up BJP.

[G.Subramaniam]

In 1997, Advani attended the nikah of his niece to a muslim

Something is wrong with Hindu women, wanting to sleep with muslims

[Shambhu]

From a comment on Offstumped..
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Lok Sabha 09 state by state seat analysis and ideas
Taken from LK Advani.in Portal written by Shri.Raghav Ramachandran
Very Incisive and Exhaustive Findings -cum-Recommendations.
——————————————————————————————
I have gone through the results of the last elections and put down my predictions on a state basis for the upcoming elections based on the constituency results last time (which can be seen at the election commission website) and the state and national factors. This is what I have concluded.

State 2004 2009
NDA UPA 3rd Others NDA UPA 3rd Others
Haryana 1 9 0 0 6 4 0 0
Punjab 11 2 0 0 11 2 0 0
JK 0 2 1 3 1 1 3 1
Uttarakhand 3 1 0 1 4 1 0 0
UP 10 9 19 42 10 8 44 18
Bihar 11 29 0 0 16 23 1 0
HP 1 3 0 0 2 2 0 0
Meghalaya 0 1 0 1 0 1 0 1
Assam 4 9 0 1 11 2 0 1
Sikkim 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 1
Arunachal 2 0 0 0 2 0 0 0
Nagaland 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 1
Tripura 0 0 2 0 0 0 2 0
Jharkhand 1 12 1 0 5 8 1 0
Mizoram 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 1
Manipur 0 1 0 1 0 1 0 1
WB 0 6 35 1 0 7 27 8
Orissa 18 3 0 0 16 5 0 0
Karnataka 18 8 2 0 20 6 2 0
Tamil Nadu 0 32 4 4 0 13 3 24
Kerala 0 1 15 4 0 6 11 3
AP 0 29 5 8 1 17 15 9
Goa 1 1 0 0 1 1 0 0
Chattisgarh 10 1 0 0 9 2 0 0
Maharasthra 25 22 0 1 29 18 0 1
MP 25 4 0 0 22 7 0 0
Guj 14 12 0 0 15 11 0 0
Rajasthan 21 4 0 0 19 6 0 0
Delhi 1 6 0 0 2 5 0 0
UTs 1 4 0 1 1 4 0 1
Total 178 211 84 71 203 161 109 71
NDA = BJP + JD(U) + SS + INLD + SAD + AGP + BJD
UPA = Congress + PMK + DMK + NCP + JMM + RJD + LJP + IUML
3rd Front = BSP + TDP + JD(S) + NC + Left + RLD
Others = SP + AIADMK + TMC + TRS + Praja Rajyam + DMDK + MDMK + Smaller parties and Independents

I have gone through the state and constituency wise results last time and have tried to factor in the events since 2004 to come to the numbers above. According to my calculations, the NDA gains about 25 seats, the UPA looses about 50 and the 3rd Front gains about 25. I think my prediction will be correct to around a 5% error (about 25 seats may move around).

The Main conclusion here is that the BJP will be the single largest party, the NDA the single largest alliance, but will still be nowhere close to forming the next government. We need atleast 70 seats more to be able to do that. This is why I believe we actively need to get more allies before the election, otherwise it will be very difficult to get partners after the election.

If the results come out as above, a very real possibility is a 3rd front govt formed with outside support of the UPA (usual argument of keeping out ‘communal forces’) with Mayawati as PM. They would have the numbers to form the government.

Some other combinations I have thought about :
1) If the Congress and SP tie up in UP, which they might given both parties are weak and BSP is very strong, the numbers could change dramatically. In UP the numbers would then be NDA-8, BSP+RLD-35, Cong+SP-37. This would make the total numbers NDA-201, UPA - 190, 3rd front - 100. The UPA is now much stronger and can seek out allies to form the government. The BJP will be nearly decimated in UP and Mayawati too will be severely challenged.
2) In a post poll scenario, it is very possible that the Left and SP will support the UPA in forming a government. The Left would demand the removal of Manmohan Singh and Chidambaram from the posts of PM and FM which the Congress would gladly agree to form the government. The Congress will install Rahul Gandhi as PM and function with Left support.
3) If the Congress gets more allies from the 3rd Front / Others category, they can increase their numbers to about 200 and be in a good position to form the government.
4) Most importantly, if the Congress projects Rahul Gandhi as PM candidate, that alone will give them about 25-35 seats more and they will be in a comfortable position to form the government, with support of some allies.

Given all these numbers, the conclusion is that we are nowhere close to forming the government without many many more allies. The party is a non-entity in the vital big states of WB, TN, AP, Kerala which together have 144 seats and a very small player in UP which has 80 seats. We need to actively pursue allies in these states and try to bring the numbers of our pre-poll alliance to atleast 240. Only then can we hope to form the government in a post poll scenario.

Many people have commented in other posts that the party should try to expand its base in these states without allies. While I strongly favour the party expanding itself, in our multi party system it is very difficult for a party to make inroads in states where it has no presence. The party has about 8% in Kerala, 3% in TN and similar single digit numbers in AP and WB. A party which truly claims to be a national party cannot be a non–entity in about 200 out of 543 seats and cannot even hope to form a government.

I believe allies our essential. We must look to the following allies
1) AP - TRS ( agreement on Telengana) and Praja Rajyam. We can score in the Telengana region with the TRS help. Chiranjeevi’s party will have a vote share of about 10% due to his image (DMDK in TN got a vote share of 10% in the first election due to Vijaykanth). 10% will not give the Praja Rajyam any seats however. If we have an alliance of TRS-BJP-Praja Rajyam, the alliance can win about 10-15 of the 42 seats in AP. Also in a post poll scenario, the party can look to the TDP to give outside support to the government, if the situation arises. The BJP is strong in the coastal areas and can try to score a couple of seats here.

2) TN - The party is a non-entity in this state. We only have a 3% vote share in the state and cannot even hope to win a single seat on our own. We need to ally wherever possible. We can try and ally with the DMDK which will have a 10-14% vote share. The alliance might be able to win a few seats. The BJP should still try to form an alliance with the AIADMK which is likely to perform very well in the next elections. Even though the AIADMK recently allied with the Left, after the elections we can try to win them over. If we can get Rajnikanth to publicly support the party, it would greatly increase our voteshare and our chances of getting seats and allies. We also have to use favourable media like Tughlaq to spread our ideas. Other parties like the MDMK are also potential allies.

3) Kerala - The party has a 7% voteshare in the state, concentrated in a couple of seats. We can try and win these seats, though we would still need allies in the state which is a stronghold of the Congress and the Left. We can try to find some local parties and ally with them to get the votes - even a couple of seats from this state would be a great achievment nationally speaking. This is a southern state the party can actually try to penetrate on its own in the future.

4) WB - Another state which is a Left stronghold. The Left is likely to lose seats due to Nandigram, Singur etc. The Congress and the TMC are most likely to gain. The BJP should try to patch up with Mamata Banerjee and get her back on board, atleast after the elections. The BJP should try and penetrate the state in seats in the outskirts of the state.

5) North Eastern States- Barring Assam, the other NE states contribute 10 seats. The BJP should tie together all the non-congress non-left parties in these states and win them over to the NDA. This would be a great help in reaching our goal of 272, and expanding ourselves in this region for future elections.

In all other states, the BJP is in a good position. In MP and Jharkhand, the BJP can try and reach out to Uma Bharathi and Babulal Marandi. Other dissidents like in Gujarat, UP, Rajasthan need to be brought back amicably to score well.

The BJP is in a good position in Northern, Western and Central India barring UP. The party should strengthen itself in these areas and try to win an overwhelming majority of the seats in order to form the next government.

Overall I think we are not in as good a position as we should be. I think we need to actively start campaigning now to do well next year.

Some worries

1) A very plausible outcome of the elections, if the results are approximately as above is the formation of the NDA government with Mayawati either giving outside support or as Deputy PM. While this is not a nice thing to think about, we should keep this in mind. Like I mentioned before, the 3rd front might get enough seats to be able to demand the PMs post - maybe Advaniji as PM for half the term and Maywati for the other half - the Jammu Kashmir - Karnataka model. I sincerely hope this outcome does not arise.
2) Rahul Gandhi - I believe that Rahul Gandhi’s so called ‘youth appeal’ does not extend beyond the traditional Congress party vote base of Gandhi family sycophants, and their youth. However, this does form a significant portion of votes in the country and gives credence to the Congress’s claim of Rahul Gandhi being a ‘national leader’. Moreover the biased media seems hell bent on projecting him in as good light as possible, as the saviour of the country. He does not give interviews or press conferences, and does not deviate from script so that he does not appear foolish - and the media love that. So every time he opens his mouth the media gives him primetime coverage - like during the debate during the confidence motion, the terrorism debate, whenever he goes to campaign anywhere. I think this does not bode well for the BJP, especially in the future. In 2014, the BJP will not have a national leader to project against Rahul Gandhi, Advaniji will be too old to run for PM again. I think there are 2 things the BJP should do. One, they should completely ignore Rahul Gandhi, treat him like a kid who doesn’t know what he’s talking about and not take issue with him ever. Whenever anyone challenges him, we are increasing his stature as a respected national leader, which he is not. This is true even in the unlikely event of the Congress projecting him as the PM candidate for this election. Secondly, the BJP should actively start projecting its younger national candidates with an eye on 2014, so that we can project a PM candidate then. Rahul Gandhi will almost for certain be the Congress’ candidate then.

Some Ideas
1) Early declaration of candidates and manifesto- candidates for all seats should be declared as soon as possible - latest by Jan 30. This will allow them to draft their constituency campaign plan, their constituency manifesto and they can start campaigning early. This will also help in quelling dissidents is any, in these seats. The rebel factor is what cost us in Rajasthan, we should not let that happen again.
2) Rath Yatra by Advaniji - I think Mr. Advani should carry out a Rath Yatra throughout the country to increase the vote share of the BJP. This will especially help in mobilizing the core Hindutva votebank, and can help in getting out the BJPs message to the voters early. This can be used to highlight the misrule of the Congress led UPA. I think this would go a long way in increasing our seats in the next election. Also other national leaders too should conduct yatras - Modiji, Rajnath Singhji. We should also actively involve our state leaders and have them conduct similar yatras in their states - Vasundhara Raje, Shivraj Singh Chauhan, Raman Singh, Yeddyurapa, B C Khanduri and the state leaders in all other states. Yatras ensure constant media coverage and will help in getting the message of the BJP out.
3) Youth and Women leaders - the BJP needs to secure large number of youth and women votes. This is actually an area where the Congress might have an advantage because of Rahul and Sonia Gandhi. However, especially with youth, the BJP should try and project itself as the original party with a difference. Youth morchas should be out in full swing campaigning and youth candidates should be given center stage. The same is true of the women leaders in the party. The party should unilaterally implement the 33% reservation of seats for women - that will show the true colours of the other parties which claim to work for equality of women. The party can give about 30% tickets to women, 30% to youth (below 40) and the rest can be given to the party elders, especially those who are sure of winning their seats.

Jai Hind. Hope the NDA wins 300 seats and wipes out the Gandhi Family Inc.

[Guest]

sHAMBUJI,

Appreciate your detailed post. I have a negative approach. It is like this:

1. What are the States where the BJP is a non-entity? How many seats are there? How much of it goes to the congress and how much goes to the non-congress?

2. Likewise what are the States where the Congress is shut out? How many seats are there? How much of it goes to the BJP and how much goes to the non-congress?

3. What are the states where both the Congress and the BJP are non-entities? How many seats are there? How much of it goes to the BJP and how much Congress. We know the Communists are in this category confined to Kerala, West Bengal and Tripura.

4. In this method we can easily infer the strength of non-congress but pro-congress parties such as the communists, Lalu's RJD, Karunanidhi's DMK, Rebel congress parties etc. on whom the Congress could rely to form a Govt. being its head or tail. I am sure they won't come anywhere near the magic number of 272.

5. This time there will be a block of 'non-BJP, non-Congress, non-communist' MPs who will not be prone to the idea of either the BJP or Congress forming a Govt. but would like to form a Govt. with BJP's support. This front include parties of Jaya, Maya, TDP, etc. I would say that the BJP should actively forster such a front and have a say as to who should head the Govt. If the BJP can persuade the least potent but most able person to head such a govt. for example Dr.Subramanian Swamy as the P.M., this country can benefit a lot.

[ramana]

You ae saying the same thing as the offstumped analysis postd by Shambu. You can make the calcs from the data posted there in.

[acharya]

Lok Sabha Debate on Mumbai Terror - LK Advani's Speech

I join each and everybody in this august House to pay condolences to all those innocent civilians, both Indians and foreigners, who lost their lives in these attacks. I join all of you also in paying our grateful homage to the security personnel who were martyred in these attacks. The names of Hemant Karkare, Ashok Kamte, Vijay Salaskar and Sandeep Unnikrishnan have now become household names. But there are also other brave policemen who risked their lives in confronting the terrorists, and the nation is grateful to them for having nabbed at least one of those terrorists alive.

***A nation's character is tested in times of crises like this one. And I must say that the security personnel and civilians who confronted the terrorists have shown what the true character of India is.

***After the battle was over and all the security personnel were boarding the buses in front of Taj Mahal Hotel, an ordinary jawan was asked by the reporter of a TV channel. "How do you feel now?" And the jawan answered, matter-of-factly, "Hamare liye kuch bhi mushkil nahin hai."These words of the Army jawan - "Hamare liye kuch bhi mushkil nahin hai" - should become the motto of the nation in our war against terrorism, and indeed in all our other endeavours in nation-building.

***The draft of the Resolution to be moved in the House, has taken note of the fact that the terrorist attacks are not isolated incidents limited to Mumbai. It has mentioned "the acts of terror committed in Jaipur, Bangalore, Ahmedabad, Delhi and other places in India."

Frankly, I was disappointed to find that the near-simultaneous serial bomb blasts in Guwahati and other places in Assam in October this year are not mentioned in the draft resolution. This is a serious lapse. By any reckoning, both the scale and nature of what took place in Assam are a grim reminder of a very dangerous situation that has developed in this sensitive and strategically located state of India.***
India is united in the War on Terror

What I wish to state right at the beginning is that my Party, the BJP, and our Alliance, the NDA, will wholeheartedly support the passage of whatever emerges as the final draft of the resolution after incorporating useful suggestions from Honourable Members.I wish to state this very emphatically that we would like this Resolution to communicate, to all the people of India as well as to the entire international community ¾ and especially to the enemies of India who have waged this War of Terror against our nation ¾ the solid unity of this House, cutting across party lines. This Resolution should convey the unshakeable resolve of the Indian Parliament and Indian People that, in this War against Terror, we stand together, and not apart.

***This point is important because it is not simply about passing a Parliament Resolution. In times to come, our country may be required to take some decisive step if the rulers in Pakistan do not pay heed to the message contained in this Resolution. When this decisive step will be taken, how it will be taken and what its nature should be ¾ these are not questions to be debated today. But I WISH TO ASSURE THE NATION THAT THE BJP AND THE NDA WILL STAND TOGETHER WITH THE GOVERNMENT IF THE MOMENT ARRIVES FOR TAKING A DIFFERENT KIND OF ACTION AGAINST THE PERPETRATORS AND PATRONS OF THESE HEINOUS ACTS OF TERROR.

***Let me quote here from a statement issued by the Core Committee of the BJP on 4th December. "The four day long terrorist attack on Mumbai, India's commercial capital is a challenge that must be rebutted fully, visibly and tellingly. Given that Pakistan has totally rejected all requests of the Government, we expect the Government is assessing the stern steps that are required to ensure that Pakistan desists from pursuing jihadi terrorism.

As a nationalist party, the BJP shall stand by the government in the effective steps it takes in this regard."Let it be clearly understood by the enemies of India that in this War against Terror, THE GOVERNMENT AND THE OPPOSITION ARE UNITED; ALL CASTES AND COMMUNITIES ARE UNITED; ALL STATES ARE UNITED; ALL OF INDIA IS UNITED.

***There is not a shadow of doubt that this was yet another instance of export of terror from Pakistan. Pakistan has been exporting terror into India for the past nearly three decades. There is now a mountain of evidence to show Pakistan's complicity in the terrorist activity in India ¾ first in Punjab, then in Jammu & Kashmir and later all over the country. Yet, when confronted with hard evidence, the successive rulers in Pakistan have resorted to denial, dodging, rationalizing, sometimes justifying, and almost always seeking protection behind falsehoods.

***In the recent terror attacks on Mumbai, what we have seen is not just a thumb impression of Pakistan but a SIGNATURE IN BIG BOLD LETTERS. The terrorists who were involved in the marine attack came from Karachi. Pakistan's President Asif Ali Zardari has admitted that "non-state actors" from his country were involved in the attack. This half-admission from none other than the head of state in Pakistan is extraordinary in many respects. If non-state actors operating from the soil of Pakistan are involved, what is the state of Pakistan doing? What is preventing it from acting against these actors? Or is the whole thing nothing but play-acting to fool India and the international community?

***But there appears to be a new pattern in the way the ISI operates. I would like to quote here from an article in The Pioneer of 29th November 2008, in which Wilson John, a senior fellow with the Observer Research Foundation, writes as follows:"There is evidence of a cabal within the ISI, which noted Pakistani scholar Ahmed Rashid calls 'an ISI within ISI'. This body may be primarily responsible for formulating and executing the Pakistani State's jihadi strategy in Afghanistan and India, while giving the cover of deniability to the Army and civilian establishment."

***Wilson John writes further: (This is from a mail he sent me last night and forms part of his forthcoming book)"One myth that seems to be gaining ground in the western world is that this group is a `renegade` group within ISI and is not in control of the Army. Nothing could be more misleading and dangerous. When President Musharraf came under pressure from India and the western world to `turn the tap off` on terrorism, ISI's operations were quietly and effectively taken over by a group of retired officers, many of whom were recruited as consultants. This allowed the Pakistan government a clever but quite effective excuse to deny its involvement in the terrorist attacks launched against India."

***Howsoever hard Pakistan's rulers might try to pretend that the ISI has nothing to do with terrorist organizations like Lashkar-e-Taiba, the evidence to the contrary is compelling. A report in Washington Post on 5th December 2008 mentions that none other than Pakistan's current ambassador in the United States, Husain Haqqani, wrote in 2005, while he was a visiting scholar at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace: "The most significant jihadi group of is Lashkar-e-Taiba which is backed by Saudi money and protected by Pakistani intelligence services." ***
What is the goal of terrorists?

It is important for us to know - and for the entire world to know - who has been carrying out these terror attacks, it is equally important that we know why they are being carried out. We are sometimes shy of discussing the ideology and goal of the terrorist campaign from Pakistan. However, without a clear understanding of this aspect, our strategy to counter this menace will not be effective. After all, for some people to agree to become suicide attackers, there must be a very strong motivation that is rooted in extraordinary zeal. And this is where it is highly disturbing to note that that there are forces in Pakistan who are unrelenting in their hatred for India and who misuse the name of Islam to whip up the anti-India sentiment.

***Lashkar-e-Taiba is quite explicit about why it wants to talk to India in the language of force. In a pamphlet titled "Why we are waging jihad", it states that its ideology goes beyond merely challenging India's sovereignty over the state of Jammu & Kashmir. It also affirms that its agenda includes "the restoration of Islamic rule over all parts of India". Lashkar-e-Taiba declares India, USA and Israel as "existential enemies of Islam". It is therefore not surprising that, in their attacks in Mumbai, the terrorists from Pakistan specifically targeted the Jews living in Nariman House.***
Real target of terrorists' attack: IDEA OF INDIA

Two things become very clear from the ideological motive behind the terror campaign against India.
Firstly, it is wrong on anybody's part to think that Kashmir is the root cause of Pak-supported terrorism. Secondly, the agenda of organizations like Lashkar-e-Taiba poses a potent threat to the very Civilisational Ethos of India. Since time immemorial, India has welcomed every faith that has come to our land. And that includes Judaism, Christianity, Islam and Zoroastrianism. India has always held all faiths to be true, has respected all faiths, and never discriminated people on the basis of their faith. Therefore, what we see in the terrorist attacks in Mumbai and previously in other places is an attack on our tradition of tolerance and peaceful co-existence amongst various faiths.

***This however does not mean that India's response to the threat of terrorism inspired by religious extremism is targeted against any particular religion or community. I would like to reiterate here what I have often said in the recent past ¾ namely, that terrorism has no religion and also that no faith or community should be stigmatized for the criminal acts of a few individuals or groups.As a matter of fact, the expression of Indian Muslims' anger over the terrorist attacks in Mumbai is a highly significant development.

Recently, a large congregation of Muslim clerics gathered in Hyderabad under the aegis of Jamiat-Ulema-i-Hind and passed a resolution against terrorism. This deserves to be welcomed.

***After the mayhem in Mumbai, M.J. Akbar, an eminent journalist and writer, and a former Member of this House, wrote in Toronto Star:"I am an Indian and a Muslim and proud to be both. Like any Indian, today I am angry, frustrated and depressed. I am angry at the manic dogs of war who have invaded Mumbai." Akbar also wrote something else which this House must take note of:"I am frustrated by the impotence of my government in Mumbai and Delhi, tone-deaf to the anguish of my fellow citizens. And I am depressed at the damage being done to the Idea of India."***
Colossal failure of governance

Today the feeling of anger and anguish among the people is palpable. Why are the people angry? Some people have tried to direct this anger against the political class as a whole, but, as more and more facts are reported in the media, the fact cannot be denied that the people are demanding answers from the rulers in New Delhi and Mumbai.The UPA Government at the Centre and the Congress-NCP Government in Maharashtra cannot shirk accountability, nor can they pretend that they have done all that is necessary by way of accountability by getting the Union Home Minister, the Chief Minister of Maharashtra and the Deputy Chief Minister of Maharashtra to resign.

***Many people are asking: Why have no heads rolled in the top echelons of bureaucracy? There is a survey in today Times of India that shows that over 40% of the respondents have held the Prime Minister accountable. After all, what the country has come to know in the aftermath of the Mumbai terror attacks is not just INTELLIGENCE FAILURE but GOVERNANCE FAILURE ON A COLOSSAL SCALE.

The Opposition is not making an issue of prime ministerial responsibility because his government is now at the fag end of its five-year term. I am sure the people will give their verdict when parliamentary elections are held in early 2009.***
Questions the Government must answer

In today's debate, however, the government has a responsibility to answer many questions about the total collapse of intelligence coordination between various agencies and also the utter failure of the political leadership to strengthen the internal security apparatus.

And I would like the Prime Minister and the Home Minister to answer these questions:

1) My colleague Shri Arun Shourie, in an article in the Indian Express on 1st December 2008, has given excerpt after excerpt from the speeches of the Prime Minister, Defence Minister, former Home Minister, and National Security Advisor, all of whom seemed to be aware of an imminent terrorist attack through the sea route.
My question to the Prime Minister and his colleagues is this: "To whom were your advice and warnings directed? Are you here to govern or to tender advice?"

2) In the immediate aftermath of the terrorist attacks in Mumbai, various agencies started saying that the intelligence they had was not specific. However, in the days that have followed, there is clear indication that fairly specific information was available that a marine attack on Mumbai was in the offing.

I would like to know from the Government:

a) What intelligence did the Coast Guard and the Navy have on Al-Hussaini, the Pakistani ship that carried the LeT terrorists from Karachi?

b) The Coast Guard had faxed a very specific alert to the BSF on the arrival of the Lashkar ship six days before the attack. Why was this alert not acted upon?

c) Why was there a delay of many hours in the arrival of the NSG commandos in Mumbai?

d) What time did the Crisis Management Group meet in New Delhi?

e) As reported in the latest issue of Outlook magazine, is it true that on November 26, when terrorists struck Mumbai, the national security advisor was at a party thrown by a Congress MP from Bihar at his residence and that he left around 11.20 pm, a full two hours after the attack had begun?

f) Why are there persistent reports of dissatisfaction in the ranks of IB and RAW, and also about the lack of coordination between the two?

3) On a more long-term policy and implementation level, I would like to know from the Government the action taken on a whole host of recommendations made by the four Task Forces on Internal Security, which were set up in pursuance of the direction given by the Kargil Review Committee? These were the most comprehensive recommendations since Independence for the overhaul of India's internal security apparatus. The implementation of these recommendations had begun during the NDA rule. I would like to know how this was followed up.

4) Post 26/11, the Government has given Pakistan a list of 20 fugitives, including Dawood Ibrahim, to be handed over to India. I would like to know what efforts were made by the Government of India in this direction in the past five years? Or is it the first time in five years that the issue of Dawood Ibrahim was raised with Pakistan?***

Amendments in the Resolution

The draft Resolution needs to be amended to better reflect the mood of the nation and the requirements of a resolute struggle against Pak-supported terrorism. Hence, I would like the following points to be included in the Resolution.

1) India shall take its diplomatic, political and operational efforts in the war against Pak-supported terrorism to its logical conclusion by insisting that Pakistan fully and irreversibly dismantle the infrastructure of terrorism built on its soil and being operated jointly by state and non-state actors, and further that Pakistan abide by the letter and spirit of the Joint Statement issued in January 2004 after the meeting between Prime Minister Vajpayee and President Musharraf.

2) The Government shall promptly abide by the judgements of the judiciary in respect of the past acts of terrorism such as the attack on Indian Parliament on 13 December 2001 and also the Supreme Court's directive, after the annulment of the IMDT Act, on stopping the influx of illegal immigrants from Bangladesh.

3) The Government shall constitute a Commission of Inquiry, headed by a retired judge of the Supreme Court, to go into all aspects of the intelligence and governance failures that contributed to the 26/11 terrorist attacks on Mumbai, and fix individual and institutional responsibility for the same.

4) The Government shall quickly initiate all necessary steps to strengthen the internal security apparatus in its totality by implementing the recommendations of the various task forces and committees.

5) The Government shall initiate necessary steps to enact in the current session of Parliament a stringent law against terrorism as recommended by the Administrative Reforms Commission.

6) The Government shall immediately recommend to the President to give her consent to the pending legislations against organized crime from various state legislatures on a non-discriminatory basis.

[Guest]

Jaswant Singh caused the loss of Rajasthan to the Congress. Now he out to finish off BJP in the rest of India.

It was easy to ease-out seedha saadhi Uma Bharathi by playing into her beliefs. If Jaswant was kept by Advani as his lieutenant it is probably because he would rather not leave the party to anyone if he does not become the P.M.

<b>Now read about Jaswant the shame of India
</b>
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/India/R...how/3864237.cms

[shamu]

<!--QuoteBegin-Savithri+Dec 20 2008, 03:39 AM-->QUOTE(Savithri @ Dec 20 2008, 03:39 AM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->Jaswant Singh caused the loss of Rajasthan to the Congress.  Now he out to finish off BJP in the rest of India.  <!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
How are you so sure about it?

There is a possibility of fight between Jaswant Singh and Vasundhara Raje; JS was charged for consuming bhang few years back in Rajasthan, which was a tradition among the population there.

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin--><b>Now read about Jaswant the shame of India</b>
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/India/R...how/3864237.cms
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I am not getting the direction the BJP leadership is trying to take. Proposal for work visa for BDs in Assam and this too. I hope JS will come back explain his statement again.

I'll also suspect the media for twisting statements from BJP leaders.
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Leader of Opposition L K Advani has also batted for the Sadhvi, but restricted himself to her allegations of torture contained in her affidavit before the court. <b>Even Advani has been criticised on the grounds that he has not taken a similar position with regard to other terror accused.</b> <!--emo&:blink:--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/blink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='blink.gif' /><!--endemo-->  <!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

[Guest]

Regarding what should BJP do/expectations and the regular critical analysis of BJP and its leaders on this forum and other forums, I feel very sad about the nature of the analysis. Especially when the members are obviously upper strata of educated/literate folks.

At this time the gap between BJP Vs "Rest in Indian politics" is Hope Vs. "Stinking sh1t". The choice is so visible and becoming clearer and clearer after every major event during the last five years. Even after the Mumbai blasts there is no sense even in those last straws of sensible folks in INC and they are still pondering over Antulay affair as opposed to just kick him out.

Now coming back to BJP, the on and off criticism by staunch sangh parivar supporters of their leaders like Vajpayee ( calling him as Hajpayee), Advani ( with many names) and JS as something else is not going to do any help and contrary to that it will only show a egoistic divided house. The current hindu elite is no different from the times of those who lost kingdoms. All these folks know the history and still are doing the same mistake again and again. There is no practical way that a "Hindu Mahasabha" portions will ever be in a position to lead India.

In the current cobweb grids of various external and internal mafias, BJP has to fight very defensively and has to walk on a thin line for various reasons. Otherwise they will not even have a chance to fight. <b>Malegaon, Orissa are no small events and this can lead to anything that most of us even cannot connect the correct dots.</b> The BJP leadership may know this and might be adjusting to events. It is important that the supporting folks have to blindly support them like the vanara sena of Ramayana. Period. Anything else will just bring back the "stinking sh1t".

The mafias are running on the thinline of democracy and they are capable of pulling a fast one that could undermine the freedom and democracy that India possess when they are damn sure of not coming back. Losing Rajasthan and Delhi in a way gives some hope to "stinking sh1t" which is actually good.

[Guest]

Muppallaji,

Please don't be in a box and argue a case. There can be no compulsion to support a loser.

I might vote for a BJP guy if I am convinced that he would stand up for the Hindus all the time and not turn himself into a commodity that is bought and sold, or misuse his position like the one who smuggled ladies out of the country. If there is such a principled guy I might not even look if he is a BJP or not. But that will be about individuals. However it is a party that counts to stake power in a constitutional democracy. Unfortunately in the last 60 years of Congress/secular rule all we see is that people especially the politicians have been turned to be more and more corrupt apart from many other faults. If that is all that the secular democracy can bring about then it may be time we boldly give it up and pursue somethong radical.

This problem of corruption and anti-Hindu constitutionalism cannot be addressed by voting in an election where we are destined to lose. The solution is elsewhere. If we keep that in mind then we know how much we rely on election alone.

Someone once argued with me that majority of the Hindus do not like Hindutva. He was almost suggesting that the Hindu zealots give up and take to sanyas. My answer to him was that Hindus would bring every one to Hindutva either before or after seizing power. So, may I say, hold your principle in tact and keep your options open.

[shamu]

^^^
If you have not convinced about Hindutva agenda of the BJP candidate in your constituency, who would you vote for?

[Guest]

<!--QuoteBegin-shamu+Dec 21 2008, 11:21 AM-->QUOTE(shamu @ Dec 21 2008, 11:21 AM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->^^^
If you have not convinced about Hindutva agenda of the BJP candidate in your constituency, who would you vote for?
[right][snapback]92071[/snapback][/right]
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I got this email from a friend named Bhagavandas Thyagi

"बी. जे.पी. की हार के कारण------ BUT STILL VOTE FOR BJP.


BJP gave one crore madrasa teachers to Muslims before general elections.They are not able to convince Hindus that they will not appease minorities and create healthy secularism in India and bury Nehruvian Socialism.
BJP leadership is getting confused as they are not able to define what kind of India they have in mind in regard to Religion, Society, Economics etc. etc., no eradication of Corruption and dirty mafia politics, Terrorism and strengthening Defence Forces/Police, Outdated IAS bureaucracy and restructuring central and State governments,

BJP could not Rehabilitate about 5 lakhs Kashmiri Hindus and many other subjects which need immediate attention.

BJP gave air-plans , buses , cash , etc. etc. to Afghanistan BUT COULD NOT Rehabilitate Kashmiri Hindus

*Perhaps, BJP leader-ship does not aware that this country belongs to Ram. Ram is the soul of this country. When you say, " Kasam Ram ki khate hain, Mandir wahin bahanya ge शप्त-राम की खाते हैं मंदिर वहीं बनायें गे'' If you go back with your allegiance to Ram, you will be back to mouse again. The present leadership under Mr. L.K.Advani had lost their credibility and is only playing with their jugglery of words.

In the meanwhile MEDIA is bent upon anti majority/Hindu propaganda to ensure Hindus remain divided and do not vote for pro Hindu political parties.

बी. जे.पी. की हार के कारण--मुस्लिम-तुश्टीकरण, ३४ वर्शिय शिया-मुस्लिम पर लगा बैन हटाना, उर्दू-प्रचार के लिये अनुदान देना, गालिब-सम्पत्ति-संरक्षण-अनुदान देना, गालिब-पुस्तकालय-अनुदान देना,गालिब-दिवस-द्वारा उर्दू-प्रचार,उर्दू-प्रचार के लिय मुशौरे करवाना,गालिब-वास और पुस्तक-संग्रहालय-अनुदान देना, उर्दू और पंजाबी को द्वितिय-भाशा-बनाना, अडवानी जी की भतीजी का नकाह
,हिंदुस्थान-पाकिस्थान बस सेवायं, रेल सेवायं, इराक पर अमेरिका-आक्रमण-विरोद्ध, अफगानिस्थान को वायु-यान, बसे, धन, आदि की सहायता, जम्मु के हिन्दुओं की नहीं, दो करोड-मुस्लिम-अध्यापकों की
नियुक्ति उर्दू-प्रचार के लिये, हज-अनुदान हटाने के स्थान पर हज-अनुदान-वृद्धि, श्रीलन्का के हिन्दू-शरणार्थियों को भारत आने पर रोक, राजस्थान के बी.जे.पी राज में ४० से अधिक हिन्दू-गुज्जरों की हत्यायं आदि आदि अनेक अन्य कारण भी हैं ---किन्तु हिन्दुओं,हिन्दी,सस्कृत के लिये बी.जे.पी.ने क्या किया ? राम-मंदिर बनाया नहीं,ताज-महल को शिव-मन्दिर कहलवाया नही , पुस्तकों में डलवाया नहीं ,
अडवानी-भतीजी को मुस्लमान बनने से रोक नहीं ,हिंदुओं को नहीं मुस्लमानों को प्रसन्न करने में लगे रहे और हिंदुओं के सब मतदान (वोट) गवा लिये | मुस्लमान कभी भी बी.जे.पी. को मतदान दें गे नहीं उन को प्रसन्न करने में बी.जे.पी.ने हिंदुओं के मतदान गवा दिये , जिन्ना की प्रसन्नता में लगे रहे और हार गये |हिंदुओं को प्रसन्न करो, ८० % हिंदू-मतदान लो और जीतो |


CONGRESS IS ANTI-HINDUU-PARTY.BJP IS NOT A HINDUU-PARTY. WE NEED A HINDUU-PARTY WHICH WE DO NOT HAVE. THEREFORE WE HINDUUS ARE STUCK WITH BJP.PLEASE VOTE FOR BJP.

PLEASE VOTE FOR BJP."

[Guest]

In my opinion, instead of giving benefit of doubt to BJP and criticising them as "not hindu" party is itself traitorous. The anology is instead of supporting Prithviraj Chohan, the great warriors supporting Ghazani on the pretext that Prithviraj Chauhan is rajput womeniser.

Hindu civilization is wounded and they are lost for 500 hundred years of invasions, forced and induced conversions. But at various times there are glimpses of fight back which is reason why there are still some hindu forums on the net.

However, the bottomline is Hindustan is shrunk and is still shrinking if you take Assam.

In this background, it is <b>practically impossible even to God</b> to create an environment that some of the nutcases from VHP/Hindu Mahasabha types want. Even if BJP supports some madrasas and churches (tactical retreats) it is important for learned persons to go out and vote for BJP blindly (even if they put a trashy pig as a candidate). Otherwise they all (akhad/egoistic ones) deserve exactly what happened to kashimiri pandits and Tamil brahmins.

Just becasue you are angry/dis-approve some aspects of BJP and not-vote to them is as simple as voting to EJs and Islamists.

[shamu]

<!--QuoteBegin-Savithri+Dec 21 2008, 02:40 PM-->QUOTE(Savithri @ Dec 21 2008, 02:40 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->CONGRESS IS ANTI-HINDUU-PARTY.BJP IS NOT A HINDUU-PARTY. WE NEED A HINDUU-PARTY WHICH WE DO NOT HAVE. THEREFORE WE HINDUUS ARE STUCK WITH BJP.PLEASE VOTE FOR BJP.

PLEASE VOTE FOR BJP."<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

This will be my argument too. Other thing VHP etc. can do is to make sure that all pro-Hindu BJP candidates are elected. Also make sure that anti-Hindu guys like Saldanah from Banagalore are defeated.

In general Hindutva-wadis have capability to influence BJP, but it doesn't have that in other parties. They are already anti-Hindus.

[Guest]

Make BJP Hindu Party by voting BJP and forcing them to appease only Hindu.
Don't elect who is born in Pakistan.

[Guest]

BJP is the only true nationalistic party we have in India right now...probably the only party that is capable of really defending India's long term interests.

But, I know a lot of members would not agree when I say BJP really shot itself in the foot by allowing foreign funding in Indian media.

Results are clear for all to see...channels like NDTV, CNN-IBN etc are now subtly undermining the unity and integrity of India.

[Guest]

<!--QuoteBegin-ramana+Dec 18 2008, 09:21 PM-->QUOTE(ramana @ Dec 18 2008, 09:21 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->You ae saying the same thing as the offstumped analysis postd by Shambu. You can make the calcs from the data posted there in.
[right][snapback]91971[/snapback][/right]
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Ramanaji,

My point has not been understood by you. Let me enunciate the background.

a) BJP formed a minority govt when it ruled last but it benefitted only non-Hindus and so Hindus felt betrayed and did not support the BJP in the last election.

b) Congress quickly reconciled to the idea of coalition govt. and sewed up a front that isolated the BJP. This front was a shot in the arm for the anti-Hindu forces and Hindus suffered a lot in the last 5 years.

c) Vote bying was in vogue before but was done more stealthily. Now this culture has been streamlined and is very much in the open. Even for a public meeting a person is given some Rs.200 and a plate of biriyani and a bottle of arrack to ensure his attendance. That is the sorry state of secular democracy.

d) Against the power of the Congress in their grooming of caste (and minority) leaders for wades and wades of money whereby these 'leaders' will ensure 'delivery' of vote bank, the choice is to cultivate the anti-Congressmen and pay them their dues to be in power.

It is therefore, that the BJP has to seriously think in terms of being a supporter of non-Congress govt. (with a non-BJP) P.M. by extending inside support just as the old Jan Sangh did. (We have to incorporate the lessons learnt in those scenerios). That is the surest way to weaken the Congress and its vote bank.

The idea of the BJP not heading a govt may be unpalatable but it is still better considering that the Congress and its ilks can be driven to the opposition benches.

The non-Congress, non-BJP parties that are part of the govt. might continually threaten to defect to the Congress when the BJP would press for pro-Hindu programs but their ability to do so will be diminished if there is mass movement in the streets to force them as is happening in Orissa or Kashmir and in Assam too. Actually the mass movements throughout India are our keys to success. The RSS, VHP, Bajrang Dal, Hindu Munnani and Dr.Swamy's challenge to destroy Ramasethu, or resistance to any corruption by any minister and so on become the vehicles to keep these non-Congress parties to remain non-Congress.

The Congressmen might surely indulge in campaigns using secular media and terrorists' help but only relentless mass movement can counter it. Otherwise we would be letting the Congress back and history will repeat itself.

My question is:

Does the BJP have qualitative leadership to carry on these important tasks or are they moth eaten to become cannon ball revetted to our feet?

[Shambhu]

<b>The Election Manifesto of Hindu Voters!</b>

December 23, 2008

Margashirsha Krushna Ekadashi

By Staff Reporter

Cast your vote for only that candidate who has ethical conduct and who will look after Hindu interest!
Dear Hindu Brothers and Sisters,

The politicians to whom we Bharatiyas so confidently handed over the reign of our country after Independence have turned it into a thing of no value. We have experienced the extreme deterioration of our country over last 61 years even though all the political parties were given chance to rule.
The Nation has gone down hill because of Adharmi (unrighteous) politicians!

During ancient times the people used to be happy, fearless and prosperous because the Hindu kings then were duty bound and followers of Dharma. The current politicians and rulers are unrighteous and misuse the power for their own interests. This has lead to deterioration of Bharat at all levels. The people are overwhelmed with poverty, unemployment, corruption, crime and misconduct.

The secular rulers themselves are responsible for the detrimental state of Dharma!

Activities against the Hindu Dharma and appeasement of Muslims and Christians have become the permanent feature of secular politicians. Therefore in a Hindu majority Bharat the very faith of Hindus on the Dharma was hurt through the various media of denigration of Hindu Deities, the killing of Hindu leaders, anti Hindu laws etc. The 85 crore Hindus who are not united on the basis of Dharma had to face the sorrow of the detriment to their Dharma while Non-Hindus being united were appeased by the politicians for their lump sum votes.

To arrest the present pitiable condition of Nation and Dharma it is essential to elect such candidates who are patriotic, followers of Dharma, having caring attitude for the masses, having warrior attitude, morally strong and having sacrificing nature. For that it is essential that the Dharmashakti of Hindus has to manifest through the medium of ballot and that is the responsibility of all of us. Therefore seriously think as to whom you will cast your invaluable vote! HJS therefore is calling you to change the current state of affairs.
Do not vote such candidates!

1. Corrupt, criminal, uneducated and those who change the party
2. Those who offer drinks, parties, money, clothes, picnics and items of luxury in exchange for votes
3. Those who play politics of caste by encouraging the reservation culture and thus divide the society
4. Those parties who appoint defeated candidates to the post of Governor or chief of some corporation etc.
5. Those who have amassed unlimited wealth after being elected and those who have kept crores of rupees in the Swiss bank or some such foreign bank and thus have hidden their black money and have evaded taxation.
6. Those disrupt the working of parliamentary or legislative sessions and thus causing loss of crores of public money
7. Those who spend crores of public money on the advertisements when there is a loan of millions of rupees on the nation and when 30% of our population is below poverty line
8. Those who spread such defaming history such as,' Sri Ram is an imaginary personality' ' Lokmanya Tilak, Sawarkar, Bhagatsingh were terrorists' and ' Shivaji Maharaj was wicked and deceitful'
9. Those who pretend Hinduttva after smelling the oncoming wave of Hinduttva.
10. Those involved in preparing Anti Hindu laws and those who hate Hindu Dharma, Deities, the Hindu Holy texts and Sanskrit language.
11. Those who distribute the money donated by the devotees to Church, Mosques, Christian Schools after taking over the temples under government management.
12. Those who participate in the programmes of Muslims and Christians; but do not participate in Hindus' agitation for the defense of Dharma and neglect the undesirable practices taking place during the festivals in their own constituency
13. Those who out of their fanatic mentality give tickets to Muslims and never lose a single opportunity to appease them
14. Those who give reservation to minorities in jobs, educational field, give subsidy of crores of rupees for Haj pilgrimage and donate thousand of acres of land for building Mosques and Kabrastans.
15. Those who try to destroy the places of Hindu cultural heritage such as Ramsetu,Bhama hill where Saint Tukaram did penance and those who do not allot permanent land for the Amarnath pilgrims for provision of facilities
16. Those who never register a simple protest when Hindu leaders are murdered, Muslin instigate riots, vandalisation of Hindu Deities 'idols and when such Hindu hater painter M.F. Hussain paints the nude pictures of Bharatmata and Hindu Deities.
17. Those who have neglected the rehabilitation of four and half crore Kashmiri Hindus who due to atrocities committed by Muslims had to leave the place and thus have subjected them to a miserable life in the refugee camps.
18. Those who arrest the Chief pontiff( Dharmaguru) of Hindus and torture Him but do not dare to touch Imam Bukhari who on several occasion has given nation dividing speeches and also when there are so many criminal evidences against him.
19. Those who have allowed the infiltration of 4 crore Bangladeshi Muslims and also have conferred them Bharatiya nationality.
20. Those who have delayed execution of the death sentence to terrorist Mohamed Afzal and those do not intend to find out permanent solution to the menace of terrorism.

The money amassed by the corrupt politician should be collected from the people who elected him! - Arya Chanakya

Cast your votes in favor of the following people!

1. Non corrupt, of good character and those who pay their taxes sincerely
2. Those who fulfill all the promises given during election campaign
3. Those who celebrate their family programmes like marriage, birthday in a simple manner and donate the saved money for the cause of Nation and Dharma.
4. Those who constantly keep in mind ,'I am not the master of people but their servant' and while doing their duty unfailingly also teach the people such qualities as discipline, sacrifice, pride in Dharma and pride about Nation
5. Those who strive for correcting the mistakes and Dharmadrohi curriculum in the text books
6. Those who put their efforts to see that the administrative work is carried out in regional language and all the public boards are displayed in regional language and those who will take firm steps towards the avoiding of unrealistic importance of English language
7. Those who promise that the administration, police force and the military will contain only those who love Dharma.
8. Those who vow to bring in common civil code which will consider all caste and religions with a neutral attitude.
9. Those who are constantly active for the cause of Hinduttva and those who promise to safeguard Hindu Dharma in their election manifesto
10. Those who as a first thing run for the rescue of Hindus in such conditions as riots and defend them
11. Those who try every way to prevent denigration of Hindu Dharma, Deities, Holy texts of Hindus, and the National heroes
12. Those who clearly mention in their manifesto that they will bring stringent laws like banning of cow-slaughter and religious conversions
13. Those who will fight for the welfare of Hindus in Parliament, Legislative assemblies and Municipalities
14. Those who will try to stop the glorification of such Anti Hindus like Aurangjeb, Afzalkhan and Akbar
15. Those will promise to introduce very stringent laws to finish off terrorism and Naxalism
16. Those who promise in their manifesto that once they are elected to the office they will punish all those politicians who have delayed the execution of Mohammed Afzal, those who have diluted the anti terrorist laws and those politicians who did not throw the Bangladesh infiltrators out

‘Whom to vote' is taught to Muslims in the Mosques and to Christians in the Churches. What is wrong then to tell the Hindus that they should vote only that candidate who is interested in Hindu welfare?
Code of conduct for Hindu voters!

1. Do not cast your vote for paltry benefits and do not fall prey to bribes!
2. If the candidate is unrighteous (Adharmi) and of mean character, canvass against him whatever may be his party and if the candidate is follower of righteousness and moral values then campaign for him even at the cost of your life so that he is elected!

Hindus! Remember that your every vote is important for pulling the secular politicians down and establish the rule based on Dharma!

1. If none of the candidate in your constituency is eligible then boycott that election! Besides if more than 50% of the voters in a constituency boycott the election then send a letter to the President to pass a law where all these candidates are declared ineligible and elections are repeated !
2. Compell the the rulers to pass a law whereby the voters in a constituency can call back the elected candidate if his work in connection with public welfare is unsatisfactory!
3. Let the candidates know beforehand that public will take tough action against the elected candidate if he fails to act according to his manifesto!

Neither we belong to Shiv Sena nor BJP or Congress. We are for all Hindu Society!

Disclaimer: HJS does not insist that you vote a particular party. We only request that elect those active Hindus who strive to work for Hinduttva irrespective of which political party they belong to.

http://pseudosecularism.blogspot.com/

[Shambhu]

http://twitter.com/offstumped/statuses/1076512488
LK Advani lays the line on BJP Media Mgmt - "statements by leaders on TV have major influence on urban voters"