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Attack in Mumbai -2
Why is 120K troops in Afghanistan such a bad idea ? But then maybe it is..

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/02/opinio....html?_r=1

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->The idea of becoming a military power in the 21st century embarrasses many Indians.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Other interesting but unrelated stuff in article.

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Husky,

I have seen multiple articles about Russians zeroing in on D company. And India/US/UK seem to keep hammering Lakhvi+Zarar. Not sure why that is.
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Very strange coincidence.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/India/A...how/3923294.cms

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Terrorists were repeatedly exhorted to start fires. "Aag lagao, aag lagao" is the instruction that the terrorists were repeatedly given at all the three sites of attack from their bosses who, obviously, intended to maximise casualties. <!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g_yzTNCdIf4

Around 3:00 minutes, Gen Hamid Gul (Retd, ex ISI chief) says hindu terrorists always set things on fire. Samjhauta Express, Godhra, Mumbai, Ahmedabad all had something to do with fire. Hindus set fire to Ravan during Dussehra. Hindus take vows infront of fire. Hindus have a primordial relation with fire.

  Reply
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Husky,

I have seen multiple articles about Russians zeroing in on D company. And India/US/UK seem to keep hammering Lakhvi+Zarar. Not sure why that is.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->I actually don't know anything about any of this to comment <!--emo&:unsure:--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/unsure.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='unsure.gif' /><!--endemo-->

<!--QuoteBegin-rajesh_g+Jan 4 2009, 03:47 AM-->QUOTE(rajesh_g @ Jan 4 2009, 03:47 AM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->Very strange coincidence.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/India/A...how/3923294.cms

<!--QuoteBegin--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Terrorists were repeatedly exhorted to start fires. "Aag lagao, aag lagao" is the instruction that the terrorists were repeatedly given at all the three sites of attack from their bosses who, obviously, intended to maximise casualties. <!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g_yzTNCdIf4

Around 3:00 minutes, Gen Hamid Gul (Retd, ex ISI chief) says hindu terrorists always set things on fire. Samjhauta Express, Godhra, Mumbai, Ahmedabad all had something to do with fire. Hindus set fire to Ravan during Dussehra. Hindus take vows infront of fire. Hindus have a primordial relation with fire.
[right][snapback]92637[/snapback][/right]
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->It's just the usual christoislamic tactic of massacring Hindus and then trying to make out that Hindus did it to themselves. It's pre-planned. They want their crime and then they want to get away scott-free from it as well (so that they can do it again). That's what criminals <i>do</i>.
Moreover, from their POV - who better than that Hindus should get suspected and/or punished for christoislamic massacres of Hindus? It's double-pay.
  Reply

<b>Pakistan may allow India to grill suspects</b>

<b>ISLAMABAD – Pakistan may allow the Indian investigators to interrogate the alleged terror suspects wanted by New Delhi for involvement in Mumbai attacks but will not hand them over to the neighbouring nuclear state.</b>

“At the most Pakistan could permit the Indians to grill the people now under detention and being questioned by the Pakistani authorities and blamed by New Delhi for key role in Mumbai carnage. However, there is no likelihood that they will be handed over to India,” said a senior official here on Saturday requesting anonymity.

Currently, alleged activists of Lashkar-e-Taiba, Zaki-ur-Rehman Lakhvi and Zarar Shah are being detained in Pakistan and Islamabad is resisting repeated Indian demands backed by influential world powers to hand them over to New Delhi.

India’s Prime Minister Manmohan Singh demanded on Saturday that Pakistan hand over suspects in the Mumbai attacks thus raising again the contentious issue that has bedevilled the relations between Islamabad and New Delhi in the wake of Mumbai carnage.

Prime Minister Manmohan Singh said, “India does not want war with Pakistan but it must hand over the perpetrators of the Mumbai attacks.”

The official here said that instead of indulging in blame game, the Indians should provide substantial evidence about Lakhvi or Zarar or anyone else’s involvement in Mumbai attacks to Pakistan and if they did so their investigators could be given access to the wanted persons for probe here on Pakistani soil.

He said the same went for law enforcement or investigative agency from the rest of world. “But the main thing is sufficient evidence proving the involvement of those who are being blamed,” the official said.

According to official, Pakistan itself was carrying out investigations of Mumbai attacks at the moment, and (as it said earlier) was ready for joint probe with India but so far there had been no response by the Indians to Pakistani offer.

Another official here when contacted said that despite hectic efforts by international community to defuse tensions between Pakistan and India, Indian authorities had not resorted to de-escalation and its air, sea and land troops were still on alert and at the same positions that they had taken after the Mumbai attacks.

He said Pakistan was in the process of preparing its policy to match the evolving situation and especially the hard Indian stance. A detailed statement in that regard was likely to be issued by the foreign office in a day or two, he added.

Cheers <!--emo&:beer--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/cheers.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='cheers.gif' /><!--endemo-->
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<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Pakistan may allow India to grill suspects<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--emo&Big Grin--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
  Reply
<!--QuoteBegin-rajesh_g+Jan 4 2009, 03:47 AM-->QUOTE(rajesh_g @ Jan 4 2009, 03:47 AM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->Very strange coincidence.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/India/A...how/3923294.cms

<!--QuoteBegin--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Terrorists were repeatedly exhorted to start fires. "Aag lagao, aag lagao" is the instruction that the terrorists were repeatedly given at all the three sites of attack from their bosses who, obviously, intended to maximise casualties. <!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g_yzTNCdIf4

Around 3:00 minutes, Gen Hamid Gul (Retd, ex ISI chief) says hindu terrorists always set things on fire. Samjhauta Express, Godhra, Mumbai, Ahmedabad all had something to do with fire. Hindus set fire to Ravan during Dussehra. Hindus take vows infront of fire. Hindus have a primordial relation with fire.
[right][snapback]92637[/snapback][/right]<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Last month we had disected youtube series of Gul interviews. His interview and reference are common belief among Pakistan. Don't forget they have strong inferiority complex because they are either converted forcefully or product of Harem. Especially area where they have forts.
Check Gul reference to Bania, fire. Both are anti -islamic or anti-pakistan
Gandhi was Bania.
Hindus goes to heaven by fire.
Godhra was Commie+Paki+Indian Muslim joint venture. May be planned in Gul dinning room.
Whatever, after killing Indians in daylight, Pakistan came out winner , whether diplomatically or prestige or financially. Whatever they do, they complete their task and bring greater benefit to their own country.
We indian wine , cry , beat keyboards.
  Reply
http://pseudosecularism.blogspot.com/2008/...rn-islamic.html
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin--><b>Mumbai attacks: How Indian-born Islamic militants are trained in Pakistan</b>

    An underground network of Islamic extremists has recruited a new generation of Indian-born terrorists by exploiting sectarian tensions in the fault-line city of Hyderabad.


By Damien McElroy in Hyderabad
Last Updated: 8:55AM GMT 15 Dec 2008

Indian authorities have denied that there is a homegrown terrorist threat to the country, instead blaming Pakistan for allowing Islamist attacks including the atrocities in Mumbai to be launched across its borders.

But The Sunday Telegraph has learned that scores of young Muslim men have disappeared from the central Indian city of Hyderabad, suspected of leaving for Pakistan to be trained by the country's Islamist terror groups.

As many as 40 potential recruits are reported to have left the city - which has a large Muslim minority - under extremist guidance, while many other young men cannot be traced.

Police efforts to track the youths have floundered in the wake of the Mumbai attacks last month. A wall of community silence has protected the activities of teachers and other shadowy figures working inside fundamentalist Islamic schools and mosques.

    "We have tried to establish where the city's youth has gone but we don't know," said Hyderabad's police commissioner, Prasada Rao. "We know they have gone to other places, either Indian states or abroad. We are checking but the parents or the others will not let us into what's going on."


Two Islamic movements based in Hyderabad, Darsgah Jihad-o-Shahadath (DJS) and Tahreek Tahfooz Shaer-e-Islam (TTSI), have been accused by local police of allegedly acting as "feeder" groups for militants seeking to recruit armed fighters. They have denied the allegations.

<b>Members of a third local group, the Students Islamic Movement of India - which has been banned by the government - carried out a gun attack on police just days after the Mumbai attacks.</b>

Police in Mumbai blamed 10 Pakistanis and their leaders back home for the carnage that killed 171 people last month. But Lashkar-e-Taiba (LeT), the banned Pakistan-based group India accuses of planning the attack, has deep ties to Hyderabad. When an initial claim of responsibility for the Mumbai attacks was made in the name of "Deccan Mujahideen" - a previously unknown group - the perpetrators revived a historic Islamic claim on the Deccan Plateau, the territory which stretches between Mumbai and Hyderabad.

Extensive surveillance operations and intelligence investigations have failed to penetrate the inner workings of Hyderabad's radicals, officials admitted. "These kind of elements that are linked to violence even allow us to observe their gatherings," said Commissioner Rao. "But they know we are there and so do nothing to trigger suspicion."

Officials at the DJS madrassahs - religious schools - in Hyderabad were not willing to discuss the disappearance of the city's young men.

While there is no suggestion that the organisation orchestrates terrorist acts, the DJS carries a message on its website that is explicit about the right of Muslims to resort to violence.

"The DJS has trained and are training thousands of Muslim youths to defend themselves and to help, protect and defend the other Muslims," it states, before adding that once trained in "self defence" members can leave to join any other Muslim group.

It continues that "the long term goal of the DJS remains to achieve the supremacy and prevalence of Islam in practice in its entirety".

Hyderabad, like war-torn Kashmir, has been disputed since Indian partition when its princely rulers chose India over the Muslim homeland. Even though the city was the venue for a recent gathering of conservative Muslim clerics, who issued a fatwa against terrorism following the Mumbai attacks, riots and terrorist activity have risen steadily in the city since the emergence of radical Islam across south Asia.

The atmosphere in Hyderabad's alleys and markets leading from its Raj-era square is marked by mutual loathing and suspicion between Muslim and Hindu sects.

"The young people are totally insecure," said Omar Farook Sidique, a madrassah owner. "Everything for them is highly impossible here - the situation is all manipulated for political reasons. Every killing and every beating is given labels to put down legitimate activities."

But Ram Mohan Reddy, a prominent Hindu lawyer, claimed: "Hyderabad is the epicentre of all this terrorism in the world.

    "Every house is a cell and everyday those people in Pakistan are on the phone and internet with people here drawing strength from Hyderabad. Terrorism has become such a big problem because of government laxity."


Violence has marred Hyderabad's recent drive to develop a high-tech reputation by adopting a second name: Cyberabad.

Deprivation in the predominantly Muslim old city is palpable. A lake of raw sewage, populated with pleasure boats, sits not far from the construction site of an elevated highway.

"The circumstances for Muslims have changed for the worse in the 60 years of India's independence," said Judge E. Ismail of the provincial Human Rights Commission. "Muslims have fallen down in education, health and are not properly represented in the police or the administration. They feel they are not part of the mainstream.
(The "Damien McElroy" reporting can't help make time for the islamic apologetics. "The muslims have been oppressed, suppressed, repressed, that is why this is happening." Oh yeah? Can anyone see the Tibetan Buddhists behaving like the islamoterrorists even though they are TRULY oppressed?)

    "It's not as if terrorism started for these reasons but some people misguide the youth that because of this they are entitled to heaven."


Hindu activists maintain a vigilant outcry against supposed government concessions that they condemn as nurturing extremism.

The predicament of India's Muslim minority plays only a small role in the indoctrination of the youth, according to Commissioner Rao. "This new generation has much broader grievances," he said. "They are motivated by extreme views on the American presence in Iraq, Middle East frictions and Muslim torment worldwide."<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
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<i>Pakistan may allow India to grill suspects</i>
after the grilling Pakistanis will deny more and also brag that they are in fact co-operating with India, and it is India which is not giving them any concrete proof.
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http://www.dailypioneer.com/ DisplayContent.aspx?ContentID= 147739&URLName=Tamasha-over-Pak-culpability

<b>Tamasha over Pak culpability</b>

Swapan Dasgupta

There are two wildly divergent debates raging in the world. The first, centred on the Israeli attacks on Hamas-run terrorist bases in Gaza, is about the definition of the term “proportionate” . Article 51 of the UN Charter accords to every nation the right to engage in self-defence against armed attacks — there is no distinction made between State and non-State aggressors. However, international law also stipulates that any retaliation must satisfy the principle of proportionality. Has Israeli targeted air strikes in crowded localities in Gaza which has produced nearly 420 casualties been disproportionate? Alternatively, should proportionality be measured by the risk posed by the aggressor rather than the number of civilians killed? After all, the Hamas is habituated to using women and children as human shields to maximise civilian casualties.

The second debate is actually somewhat of a non-debate and centres on the agonised deliberations in India over how to respond to the terrorist assault on Mumbai on November 26 last year. Prime Minister Manmohan Singh has unilaterally ruled out invoking Article 51 of the UN Charter, although External Affairs Minister Pranab Mukherjee has insisted that all options are under consideration. Never mind deliberating on the scale of proportionality, India has been preoccupied with international lobbying to persuade Pakistan to simply acknowledge that “elements” inside its territory mounted a commando operation and killed some 170 innocent people in Mumbai.

The persuasion game has taken up more than a month. No doubt the Anglo-American alliance has worked diligently to document electronic evidence of the fact that the terrorists were being controlled by hardened LeT commanders in Pakistan. The chilling transcripts (and possibly recordings) of Internet telephony talks between the terrorists and their controllers have just been made public. These have presumably been read and digested by the Pakistani authorities.

The reactions to these revelations have been only marginally different from the outright denial that greeted the initial discovery of the Pakistani antecedents of the only butcher who was captured alive. Though Pakistan is sticking to the view that the terrorist, with parents who have owned up to his Pakistani citizenship, is nevertheless a Stateless person, it has calibrated its stand on the LeT commanders who masterminded the operation. It has now been stated that all culpable Pakistanis (if any) will be tried and punished in Pakistan. Even the good President Asif Zardari has affirmed to his nation that there is no question of extraditing any Pakistani, guilty or innocent, to India.

Soon enough, a theologian will also arise to tell the more religiously- inclined Pakistanis that an Islamic Republic cannot allow a Muslim citizen to be governed by non-Islamic laws. That, presumably, will put an end to the nice suggestion that the LeT leaders should be given a business class ticket to Amsterdam to stand trial at the International Court of Justice at The Hague. Such a move would have the double advantage of also forcing India to grudgingly accept the jurisdiction of the ICJ.

The tamasha over Pakistani culpability has been continuing for more than a month and there are no signs that the show is coming to a quick end. India is waiting for its inquiries to get over before providing “proof” to Pakistan. When this process concludes in a few months, Pakistan will take time to study the evidence, ask supplementary questions and, maybe, even despatch the long awaited ISI team to verify matters. By then, hopefully, India would have voted in the General Election. If the UPA is re-elected, the Foreign Secretary may personally undertake to sit in on the next round of the joint anti-terror mechanism. If Manmohan Singh and Pranab Babu are forced into the Opposition benches, the successor Government will discover that it is left with no option than to postpone retribution till the next time the LeT or some other wild group decides that it is time to feast on the blood of unbelievers.

Some six weeks after the 10 commandos attacked Mumbai, it is becoming increasingly apparent that Pakistan has once again got away with calculated murder.

The reason behind this Pakistani success, as the Government has been bluntly informed by its senior diplomats based in the relevant Capitals, is unpalatable: Pakistan has calculated that India is in no position to exercise any punitive measure against it. The West has always regarded India as a bit of an upstart with pretensions of boxing above its class. (Of course, it considers Pakistan an absolute rogue unfortunately blessed by geography). Now the sheer incompetence, ineptitude and ineffectiveness of the Indian State are coming home to roost. So decrepit has the Indian State become that details of every minor garrison movement of the Indian Army are available to the Pakistan authorities in real time. The information is instantly used to warn the world of India’s aggressive intentions. Pakistan’s staggering human Intelligence in India has crippled the Government’s ability to move rapidly and in secrecy.

Let us be honest with ourselves, the complete neglect of national security since 2004 and the growing over-dependence on the US has taken a huge toll on India’s capacity to do what is in its own paramount national interest. Outsourcing is a good proposition when it comes to low-grade technology and elementary IT. When it becomes a policy mindset, the results are debilitating. Manmohan Singh and Sonia Gandhi may not realise this but surely the Home Minister and External Affairs Minister know the high cost India is paying for a must-win-election- at-all-cost approach to national problems.

The Mumbai attack has been a reality check for India. It has punctured our pretensions, informed us that leopards don’t change their spots and jolted us into realising that America won’t fight our battles for us. It’s time we learn the lessons of the 26/11 defeat.
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<!--QuoteBegin-rraajjeevv+Jan 4 2009, 05:35 PM-->QUOTE(rraajjeevv @ Jan 4 2009, 05:35 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin--><i>Pakistan may allow India to grill suspects</i>
after the grilling Pakistanis will deny more and also brag that they are in fact co-operating with India, and it is India which is not giving them any concrete proof.
[right][snapback]92666[/snapback][/right]
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I just don't care , how investigation is going in Pakistan, that we all know will be just crap.
My queston, why Indian failed to arrest single person in Mumbai or Banking industry or ports etc. I just can't buy these terrorist had no support from Indian Muslim or Mosque in Mumbai. These guys were able to get credit card and College Ids, why no arrest?
It only means ruling government is not interested to fix problem but its just a eye wash for gullible citizens of India.
First fix your own home then scream from roof top , my advise to Indian Government.

Why Indian Government is covering Indian Muslims? Only one reason, they are also part of Jihad.
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Gasbag Karat wants India to take Mumbai issue to UNSC knowing fully well that his fatherland China consistently vetoed attempts in past to reign in LET.
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<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->May be planned in Gul dinning room.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

That would definitely be one of the conclusions that can be drawn from this. Until General Hamid Gul said this I never thought of Sabarmati Express fires in this light. Well, if nothing else, atleast the fact that we heard it first from Gen Hamid Gul (ex-ISI chief) needs be to be noted.
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Hamid Gul will never hesistate to use Nuke against Indians. He will try actual or dirty nuke or blow any of India's nuclear installation.
Question is when he will implement ?
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<b>Pakistan should implement bilateral agreements, says Pranab</b><!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->India has handed over to Pakistan evidence about involvement of Pakistan-based elements in the Mumbai terror attacks, External Affairs Minister Pranab Mukherjee [Images] said at a press conference in New Delhi<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

In place slapping Pakistan, India is begging for mercy. <!--emo&Big Grin--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
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Smash terror hideouts: Kalam <!--emo&:beer--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/cheers.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='cheers.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Former president APJ Abdul Kalam, on Saturday, advocated a three-pronged strategy to combat terror which included raiding and smashing militant hideouts both inside and outside the country.

Firstly, a vigorous national campaign, involving every citizen, should be launched to tackle the terror menace, he said interacting with students in Hamirpur.

Secondly, Kalam advocated carrying out raids to destroy terror hideouts both inside and outside the country.

"Terror can be be eliminated by raiding and smashing militant hideouts both inside and outside the country," he said.

Lastly, there was need for speedy trial of cases relating to terrorism to punish perpetrators of such crimes, he said.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No wonder UPA didn't want Kalam in Rashtrapati Bhavan despite Manmohan's 'muslims first' doublespeak. Has the current rubber-stamp residing in Rashtrapati Bhavan made any comments on Mumbai attacks yet?
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<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin--> Has the current rubber-stamp residing in Rashtrapati Bhavan made any comments on Mumbai attacks yet? <!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
She had blessing of Shiv Sena and after her return from foreign trip she visited site and distributed goodie which she had collected as "Gift" to her near and dear one in Mumbai.
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<b>Mumbai attackers had links leading to Pak soil: Boucher</b>

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin--><b>Boucher refused to reveal any details of the evidence he had seen, but said it was "clear that the attackers had links that lead to Pakistani soil."</b><!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Cheers <!--emo&:beer--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/cheers.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='cheers.gif' /><!--endemo-->
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<b>Bhatkal wanted 1,000 people dead in every blast: Accomplices</b>
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<b>Pak says evidence given by India insufficient: Report</b><!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Noting that the evidence provided to Pakistan by India consisted of the confession of Kasab, the lone terrorist arrested for the Mumbai incident, The Nation claimed that he was being held by Indian intelligence agencies and his statement could have been recorded "under torture and violence" and thus had "no legal status".<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I fully agree, where is Indian Muslim connections? I think Indian investigation is flawed and therefore unreliable.

Now those dead terrorist should be given nice crimination with petrol or pig fats or garbage, whatever is cheaper
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<b>Mumbai Terror attacks - Dossier of evidence</b>
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