02-03-2009, 03:18 PM
(This post was last modified: 02-03-2009, 05:16 PM by Bodhi.)
194: G Sub -- great lucidity.
Remember that jAT, yAdava, kurmI and Lodh in UP have witnessed first hand jehad for several centuries now and have been the street fighters against jehadi riotists. (Unlike pseudo-intellectual brAhmaNa-s and kShatriya-s of UP who have for last one century been mass-producing the top-class psecs to corrupt the rest of the Hindus).
These communities have never taken any interest in pseudo-intellectualism, and they know the basics of the problem very clearly. Just go and talk to any jAT in Meerut belt or a yAdava-lodha-mallAha in central-eastern UP. this is basis my interactions with the village folks, and I happily find that these people are absolutely clear about the issue, including the demographic dimension. It is thanks to these jAti-s that moslem growth in UP is still not that fast as in Kerala etc I guess. Islamists are only afraid of these folks and not "upper-castes". Unlike the 'lowest' jAti-s, which are struggling to make place for themselves politically, these middle jAti-s are aspiring to take up the traditional social space of the kShatriya-s. Notice the tendency of their calling themselves rAjapUta-s (e.g. loadh-rAjapUta) and using 'Singh' or 'Varma' as surname.
Now, clarity on moslem issue aside, these folks closely identify themselves with their jati identity. For them, making their caste more and more important in politics is of utmost importance. This sentiment hardly goes away. But even this does become secondary when a Hindu identity is asserted, e.g. during Ram Janma Bhumi period. Or during the recent assembly elections in Mau area, when yAdav-s openly sided with BSP, against SP's support to terrorists.
In my opinion, the ray of light in UP is in Mayawati, if she can be guided on the right path. No doubt she is as brahmana-hater as her idol ambedkar, but also seems to be lot more clear about Islam unlike Lalu-Mulayam and his mentors Lohia and JP. She might, one hopes, prove to be the ultimate anathema to the islamists in UP.
<b>Secularist is a Hindu who serves the cause of Muslims and Christians. </b> A Muslim or a Christian is not a secularist. He is just a Muslim or a Christian. Muslims and Christians don't serve Hindus.
A Hindu does not serve the Muslims by attending his niece's nikkah. But a Hindu who serves and promotes the Islamic and Christian terrorists does. He is truly the fifth column. It is not a phenomenon that G.sub sought to study. It is pure and simple opportunism to use secularism to betray one's people. A clear sign of adharmic act.
I wish people understand the difference.
02-03-2009, 03:57 PM
(This post was last modified: 02-03-2009, 04:04 PM by Bodhi.)
<!--QuoteBegin-Savithri+Feb 3 2009, 03:43 PM-->QUOTE(Savithri @ Feb 3 2009, 03:43 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->Secularist is a Hindu who serves the cause of Muslims and Christians.
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No, a better term for that is dhimmi.
In Indian context, a secularist is someone who is so confused about his own religion and those of Christians and Moslems, that he promotes the lie that "All Religions Are the Same", and is unable or unwilling to concede the reality.
<!--QuoteBegin-Savithri+Feb 3 2009, 03:43 PM-->QUOTE(Savithri @ Feb 3 2009, 03:43 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->A Hindu does not serve the Muslims by attending his niece's nikkah.Â
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Sure he does! By sanctioning his acceptance to such vidharmI act as his neice or daughter converting to the paishAchika religion, he shows his ability to accept many other compromises. If he is a prominent Hindu leader aspiring to become the prime minister, or the one promoting some "virATa-hindutva" but living with his moslem son-in-law, he sure serves moslem interests. Were we living in just a little bit old times, these folks would have been considered out-castes.
Compare this with how Islamist dynastic rulers of Kashmir, i.e. Abdullahs, treated their daughter who married a Hindu. They disowned her and boycotted her marriage with Sachin Pilot.
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->In Indian context, a secularist is someone who is so confused about his own religion and those of Christians and Moslems, that he promotes the lie that "All Religions Are the Same", and is unable or unwilling to concede the reality.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Who is confused? Is a Muslim confused? Is a Christian confused? No not at all.
It is only a Hindu who is confused thanks to the idealogy of the colonial servants Gandhi and Nehru.
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Sure he does! By sanctioning his acceptance to such vidharmI act as his neice or daughter converting to the paishAchika religion, he shows his ability to accept many other compromises. If he is a prominent Hindu leader aspiring to become the prime minister, or the one promoting some "virATa-hindutva" but living with his moslem son-in-law, he sure serves moslem interests.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Dr.Swamy does not live with his son-in-law nor he has sold himself to the Muslims as you glibly put out repeatedly. He is one of the star campaigner against Islamist threat to India. You have an agenda against him. Pinning someone's 'sin' on another is a Christian tactics. I do not wish to enter into discussion on personal tirades. I do not have any agenda against anyone person in India except Sonia who is not an Indian.
However, you are entitled to your opinion. Only that I beg to disagree.
02-03-2009, 04:09 PM
(This post was last modified: 02-03-2009, 06:58 PM by Husky.)
<!--QuoteBegin-Savithri+Feb 3 2009, 03:43 PM-->QUOTE(Savithri @ Feb 3 2009, 03:43 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->A Hindu does not serve the Muslims by attending his niece's nikkah. But a Hindu who serves and promotes the Islamic and Christian terrorists does.
[...]
I wish people understand the difference.
[right][snapback]94193[/snapback][/right]<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->There is no difference. Such a Hindu doubly serves (christo)islamism's purpose:
Instead of discouraging such an act by refusing one's blessing by not participating in such an event, the Hindu is encouraging it: his/her presence at a wedding of a Hindu relative to a christoislamic both condones the act and <i>is seen by others in the community</i> as condoning the act. This sends the wrong message to the entire Hindu community: that what is COMPLETELY WRONG is actually acceptable. It is psecularisation of more than oneself: it is an attempt to psecularise the community by example. Both are adharma.
It also tells chistoislamism that Yes, christoislamania can keep pursuing this method to further reduce Hindus in India with success and that the foolish Hindu population will keep accepting it, and will not resist in the slightest. In fact, it tells christoislamania that Hindus can't even tell anymore that it was always forbidden for them to marry into christoislamism.
So, No. There is no difference between a Hindu attending the wedding of their Hindu relative to a christoislamic (or communist or nazi), and a Hindu who promotes islamic and christian terrorism in some other way. They are all doing it according to their own capacity, in their own way and as per available opportunity. (Whether they are all equally aware of it is in the end of no meaning to the rest of the Hindu body: a fatal gunshot fired kills, regardless of whether it was intended or went off by accident. Besides, they *ought* to all be aware of it, but psecularisation has made them amnesiac about what is actually disallowed.)
You are confusing people.
02-03-2009, 04:12 PM
(This post was last modified: 02-03-2009, 04:13 PM by Bodhi.)
<!--QuoteBegin-Savithri+Feb 3 2009, 04:06 PM-->QUOTE(Savithri @ Feb 3 2009, 04:06 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Sure he does! By sanctioning his acceptance to such vidharmI act as his neice or daughter converting to the paishAchika religion, he shows his ability to accept many other compromises. If he is a prominent Hindu leader aspiring to become the prime minister, or the one promoting some "virATa-hindutva" but living with his moslem son-in-law, he sure serves moslem interests.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You are entitled to your opinion. I beg to disagree.
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I know it hurts. But reality is reality
Sir, it doesn't hurt me one bit. 'You are entitled to your opinion' is a way of avoiding answer to unitelligent statements.
<!--emo&  --><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo--> ok sAvitrI jI
Muslim leaders have clear agenda. (a) Keep a 'secularist' govt. (meaning anti-Hindu govt of the Hindus) and (b) Thwart development of the country even if it would hurt the Muslims. A revolutionary Hindu Raj would round up these Islamist Jihadi leaders and cull them without mercy.
<b>Angry Azam Khan likely to join BSP on Feb 7</b>
LUCKNOW: If all `goes well', SP leader Azam Khan, who is also party's Muslim face, may join BSP on February 7. Khan is angry with SP for tying up with Kalyan Singh, who was responsible for Babri Mosque demolition.
Khan's sentiments are, in fact, a manifestation of the popular feeling among Muslims who are annoyed with SP firstly for its support to the UPA government on Indo-US nuclear deal and now for shaking hands with Kalyan. Sources said that Khan had already met a senior BSP leader who invited him to join BSP. He may get the post of national general secretary in BSP along with a ticket for Lok Sabha elections from Rampur from where SP has announced the candidature of film actor Jaya Prada.
Khan, sources said, has been a Mulayam loyalist for years, hence quitting SP would not be an easy task for him. SP leaders are making frantic attempts to dissuade Khan, who was also feeling alienated in the party in recent past. Khan was angry with the party even in 2002 when Mulayam entered into alliance with Kalyan for Assembly elections but on that occasion he continued with SP. "He has to choose between loyalty and community. Let's see who wins...," said an SP leader pleading anonymity.
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Lucknow...how/4067533.cms
<b>More on the Hindu Secularists' vote bank politics.</b>
<b>Naidu promises separate corporation for Christians</b>
http://www.hindu.com/2009/01/28/stories/...250800.htm
Special Correspondent
GUNTUR: A separate corporation will be opened in the State to provide protection to all the Christian properties, renovate churches, and provide amounts to larger number of Christians to travel to Bethlehem, said Telugu Desam Party President Nara Chandrababu Naidu.
Addressing a gathering of more than a lakh of people on the inaugural day of the Bible Mission Annual Conventions opposite Acharya Nagarjuna University, the TDP leader said that the attacks on Christians all over the country had increased multi-fold and were never seen during his regime.
Promising to scrap the new Government Orders 746 and 747 amid loud cheers, as the GOs were allegedly being used to attack Christians, Mr. Naidu promised to provide additional land for the burial grounds.
Thanking the organising secretary Jerripothula Samuel Kiran for making efforts to help people have faith in the Jesus, who had only promoted peace in the world, he said conversions were not the route for reaching out to the disadvantaged.
Asking the devotees and the preachers gathered at the massive Bible Mission Convention venue at 4.30 p.m., he asked them to continue to pray for the world peace and end of terrorism.
All TDP leaders including party district president Prattipati Pulla Rao, Kodela Siva Prasada Rao, former Mayor Yesuratnam, and Mangalagiri in-charge Madala Rajendra received him at the Helipad arranged at Kantheru.
<b>Will set up board to protect Christian properties: Chiranjeevi</b>
Guntur | Thursday, Jan 29 2009 IST
http://news.webindia123.com/news/Article...090129/11; 64315.html
Praja Rajyam Party (PRP) President Chiranjeevi today anounced that the party would set up a special Board to safeguard the properties of Christians if it was voted to power in the ensuing assembly elections.
The Board would be formed on the lines of Endowment Boards created to protect the properties of Muslims, he said, addressing the devotees at the three-day 70th annual Bible Mission convention here.
He said the PRP would strive to thwart any attacks on Christians.
The party would also provide financial assistance to Christians who wish to visit Jerusalem in Israel.
The PRP would strive to maintain peace among people of all religions, he said and added he entered politics only to serve the people with the inspiration provided by Mother Theresa.
He later sought the blessing of the preachers.
-- (UNI) -- 29MS22.xml
02-04-2009, 01:52 AM
(This post was last modified: 02-04-2009, 02:09 AM by ramana.)
INC spokesmen were the first to point out Kalyan Singh's "Ayodhya" role after his tie up with SP. Its a bid to embarass Mulyam Singh. They want to consolidate the minority vote in UP around INC and wean it away from SP.
However Mulayam Singh has a track record of absorbing the babri Masjid kar sewaks for quie sometime. Klayan Singh is only one of a long line of dropouts.
UP Muslim votes may go to Congress. Aligarh Muslim heads decides strategy and vote based on which party will give them best goodies, as of now they will be voting for Congress, because SP had no chance to be elected in center , same is with BSP.
<b>Muslims unimpressed as SP tries to assuage Kalyan hurt</b><!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Lucknow After redefining its relationship with Kalyan Singh as a âfriendshipâ rather than an alliance, the Samajwadi Party on Tuesday went one step further to contain the damage over its alliance with the former BJP leader. Kalyan, the party said, âshould tender an unconditional apology for the Babri Masjid demolitionâ.
<b>While party general secretary Amar Singh landed in Deoband â to apparently a cold reception â SP chief Mulayam Singh Yadav had no better luck at his meeting with over 100 Barelvi Sunni Muslim clerics. </b>
After finding that no prominent Darul Uloom Deoband cleric was willing to entertain him, Amar Singh went to the neighbouring Darul Uloom Waqf madrasa. Addressing students there, he sought Kalyanâs apology and said he would speak to Mulayam over the issue.
He also tried to convince Maulana Ahsan Kazmi, the ustad of the madrasa, that Kalyan had not joined the party and that the SP had tied up with him only to weaken the BJP.
...........<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<b>Muslims do not see me as anti-minority: Kalyan</b>
Lucknow (PTI): In an apparent bid to shun his "Hindutva" image, former Uttar Pradesh Chief Minister Kalyan Singh on Wednesday claimed Muslims do not see him as anti-minority as he had never discriminated against them during his tenure which also saw the razing of the Babri mosque.
"Letters and phone calls are coming in hordes not just from Hindus but also from Muslims who have hailed my decision to quit the BJP and also the coming together of two politicians (him and Samajwadi Party chief Mulayam Singh Yadav)," Singh told PTI here.
While trying to steer clear of the ripples of revolt in the SP, specially by party MPs over his coming closer, Singh stressed that he had never been opposed to Muslims and had proved it while leading the saffron government twice.
"The works taken up by me proved that I had worked for the welfare of all and had never discriminated against Muslims," he said, adding BJP would be weakened following his resignation.
"Muslims are against the BJP and not me and now that my target is also to bury the saffron party they (Muslims) have welcomed my resignation with open arms," he said.
Singh, who had termed the Babri mosque as a symbol of slavery, also sang a differently tune when he spoke about the ills of politics of caste and religion rampant in the country.
"The politics of caste and religion divide the country," Singh said.
The former BJP stalwart, who is believed to have made a great contribution in changing the electoral fortunes of the party in Uttar Pradesh, also said parties should stop pitting Hindus against Muslims for their "political interests and igniting communal passions".
To a question on the BJP's support base among Hindus, Singh, without elaborating, said they (Hindus) have also been cheated by the saffron party and they have realised it.
Terming his camaraderie with Yadav as "natural friendship", Singh said while alliances and understandings fall apart, friendships stand the test of time.
"While the party I had devoted my life in strengthening did not even take my advice on many occasions, SP is accepting my advice on the issue of Lok Sabha elections."
He said along with SP he would soon work towards ending BSP's "political terrorism" and "autocracy" in Uttar Pradesh.
He claimed that BJP would not fare well in Uttar Pradesh.
"All the stalwarts in UP are in for a big shock and the BJP tally would remain confined to three to four seats only," he said.
Maintaining that he had not asked anyone to quit the party, he said a "BJP choro saptah" (Quit BJP Week) is being observed and workers are resigning in large numbers.
Singh refused to speak on his prodigy Kusum Rai, who has decided to remain in the BJP which had sent her to the Rajya Sabha in the recent biennial elections.
02-04-2009, 07:40 PM
(This post was last modified: 02-04-2009, 07:41 PM by Husky.)
More from this opportunistic dhimmi:
news.in.msn.com/national/article.aspx?cp-documentid=1814060
<b>Kalyan Singh apologizes for Babri demolition</b>
The article forgot to print that he also apologises to islam for breathing, existing - and oh yeah, for speaking.
He can apologise and plead all he wants, but ultimately the islamis will have him for breakfast anyway.
In the meantime, it would be particularly entertaining if neither islamis nor Hindus nor anyone wanted this Stink in their politics.
I think Kalyan Singh thought he would come out the winner and looks like he managed to fall between two stools. He should be finished politically with this gaffe. Wonder what his group or backers think of his wisdom now?
Why VHP is not making any noise? Kalyan back stabbed them or VHP is ready to back stab Hindus just to keep power with Congress.
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Why VHP is not making any noise? Kalyan back stabbed them or VHP is ready to back stab Hindus just to keep power with Congress. <!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What would you want VHP to do?
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin--><b>Kalyanâs sorry may not save SP-Cong alliance</b>
Bhupendra Chaubey / CNN-IBN
New Delhi: From being the face of the Ram temple movement in the 90s to almost apologising for the destruction of Babri Masjid the wheel has turned a full circle for Kalyan Singh.
Once he was Hindutva's posterboy and now he is fighting with those who thrive on attacking Hindutva.
His alliance with Mulayam Singh has created a huge storm. The congress is threatening to walk out of alliance talks and the SP itself getting worried with the increasing restlessness amongst its core minority vote base.
"We will contest all the 80 seats of UP," says, UP congress president, Rita Bahuguna Joshi.
On Tuesday, Mulayam called a meeting of top Muslim clerics in Lucknow. Amar Singh went all the way to Deoband to speak to Islamic scholars to allay any fears within the Minority community.
And now Kalyan himself is trying to bat for the SP. " I donât have any alliance with Mulayam Singh. I just have a friendship with him. While Muslims have a right to be proud of Islam, Hindus have equal right to be proud of their Hindutva. Itâs unfortunate that to realise their political ambitions some people are creating fissures among these two faiths," says Kalyan Singh.
âI donât need any certificate from the congress on secularism. Who was in power at the centre when the Babri was demolished," says Mulayam Singh.
Uttar Pradesh has always been the state that has been called the gateway to power in the capital. With 17 per cent minority vote, neither the congress nor the SP want to take any chances.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It was thought the SP-Congress alliance would give a tough fight to Maya's BSP. Then Kalyan defected to SP and it was supposed to make the alliance stronger and the BJP irrelevant ensuring Maya's defeat certain in this most populous State.
But then this unravelling is taking place. Kalyan is now seen as a thorn in the flesh and the Congress-SP alliance is coming off the seams. I suppose it will make Maya laugh her way to the banks! Also it may not reverse the misfortunes for BJP.
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->What would you want VHP to do?<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
They can keep their mouth shut when it comes to Modi or BJP. But these VHP guys are happy to demonize Modi just to keep Congress strong. They bettter come out openly that they are Congress stooge and care about themselves.
Have you ever heard them critizing Congress? What happened to Ram Setu or Ram Mandir?
I thought you wanted VHP to do something specific w.r.t. Kalyan's defection.
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