Ancient Indian History

05-03-2009, 07:51 AM

http://library.du.ac.in/dspace/handle/1/4295
Title: Ancient Indian colonies in the Far East 
Authors: Majumdar, R. C.
Keywords: East Asia-History
Vietnam-History
Issue Date: 11-Nov-2008
Series/Report no.: Punjab Oriental (Sanskrit) Series No. XVI;Vol 1: Champa
Description: Xxiv, 227+274

ramana · (This post was last modified: 05-13-2009, 03:22 AM by ramana.)

Cradle of Indian History

By Rao Bahdur C.R. Krishnamacharyulu

Its about the History and Geography of the Puranas.

05-27-2009, 09:34 PM

QUOTEOldest evidence of leprosy traced to India
Washington, May 27 : A child's 4,000-year-old skeleton that surfaced in India's Rajasthan state could be the oldest evidence of leprosy, says a new study.

The analysis was conducted by biological anthropologist Gwen Robbins from Appalachian State University working with an undergraduate, an evolutionary biologist from University of North Carolina at Greensboro and archaeologists from the Pune-based Deccan College in India.

Robbins and colleagues said the skeleton was buried around 2000 B.C. in Balathal in Rajasthan, India. From 3700-1800 B.C., Balathal was a large agrarian settlement at the margins of the Indus (or Harappan) Civilization.

As infectious diseases go, leprosy is still one of the least well-understood, in part because the Mycobacterium that causes it is difficult to culture for research and it has only one other animal host, the nine banded armadillo.

A 2005 report on genomics of Mycobacterium leprae indicated the disease may have originated in Africa during the Late Pleistocene and that the Mycobacterium spread out of Africa sometime around 40,000 years ago.

But a counter-hypothesis suggested that the same data could be interpreted as evidence for a Late Holocene migration of the disease out of India after the development of large urban centres.

The presence of leprosy at Balathal 4,000 years ago also supports translations of the Eber's papyrus in Egypt and the Atharva Veda, a Sanskrit text in India, that refer to the disease as early as 1550 B.C. 

Furthermore, in Hindu tradition, burial is uncommon unless an individual is a highly respected member of the community or is seen as unfit to be sacrificed through cremation.

These latter individuals are buried, including outcastes, pregnant women, children under five, victims of magic or curses, and lepers, said an Appalachian release.

During the second millennium B.C., when there was disintegration of Indus settlements and new, adult burial becomes rare, children under five begin to predominate in the skeletal assemblages, and this early leper was one of only five individuals buried at the site of Balathal.

These findings were published in the Wednesday edition of the open-access, peer-reviewed journal PLoS ONE.
Gosh ! This is also contradicting Witzel idots and Indian Commie Historians, according these joker group, Veda was writen in around 500 BC -300 BC by people on Chariots from Europe.

05-30-2009, 11:07 PM

400-year-old cannonballs in Assam QUOTEGuwahati, May 29: A bull turned archaeologist yesterday, digging up a piece of 400-year-old history linked perhaps to Assamâs biggest military feat.

The stray bull knocked over a layer of earth with its horns on a hillock on the Brahmaputraâs banks at Chandrapur, around 30km from Guwahati. Out came an armoury of Ahom-era cannonballs, probably dating back to the 17th century.

âThere are over 1,000 cannonballs there. We have recovered just 165. They may shed new light on the Ahom war machinery,â the assistant curator of the Assam State Museum, Jiten Shyam, said today.

The Ahoms, said to be from Yunan in China, ruled Assam for nearly 600 years since their chief Sukaphaa set up a kingdom in Upper Assam in 1228. Ahom rule ended when the British annexed the kingdom through the Treaty of Yandaboo in 1826.

The cannonballs were handed over to the museum today by police after they had been informed of the âhuge collection of stone spheresâ by local people.

Shyam said the name of the locality â Kajolichoki â suggested it was once a site of military importance. Choki denotes an Ahom-era sentry post.

He said there could be âa link between the findings and the Battle of Saraighatâ, the most famous battle of the Ahom era in which the Mughal army of Aurangzeb was beaten back from the state. The 1671 battle, on the Brahmaputraâs banks, ended years of military campaign by the Mughals to annex Guwahati, then known as Pragjyotishpur.

The eventâs defining moment came on the night before the final battle when Ahom general Lachit Barphukan beheaded his own maternal uncle for sleeping when he should have been supervising the construction of a defensive rampart.

Shyam said the site of discovery âresembles a hillock that could have been a rampart onceâ, and that it was ânot too far away from the place where the Battle of Saraighat was foughtâ.

He added: âA road had been cut by the side of the hillock a few years ago but the armoury stayed hidden. I was told a bull owned by a resident of the locality knocked off the top layers of the earth late yesterday afternoon. The local people realised these stone spheres could be something special and informed the police.â

Shyam said the cannonballs, of different diameters, would be examined to confirm which period they belonged to.

âWeâll match them with samples found earlier, or go for forensic testing. But one thing we are sure of is the craftsmanship: these cannonballs are perfect spheres.â

Dipankar Banerjee, an authority on the history of Guwahati, said that âin all likelihood the discovery is related to the Ahom empireâ.

âThe Battle of Saraighat and many of its splinter battles were fought on the Brahmaputraâs banks. Since the discovery has taken place on the riverbank, it is logical that these are from the Ahom age. Besides, the British did not use such cannonballs,â he said.

Shyam said the cannonballs were âtypically Ahomâ, cut and polished from a granite-like stone which gave it its toughness.

âThey were packed into cannons and fired at the enemy with the use of explosives. These cannonballs could kill foot soldiers and cavalry and even knock out elephants. The bigger ones could sink boats and pierce through defensive scaffoldings,â he said

Bharatvarsh · 06-12-2009, 10:30 PM

QUOTEImages of Kushana & Gupta coins:

http://ignca.nic.in/asp/showbig.asp?projid=ac27
QUOTEA barely literate grocer with an eye for priceless antiques

Mohammed Iqbal

Kukki, whose two-decade work led to the discovery of an ancient civilisation in Hadauti region, longs for recognitionÂ

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

He has discovered 55 prehistoric rock paintings

My work can be used to convert Bundi into a heritage destination, says Kukki

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

JAIPUR: A barely literate grocer with a passion for the artefacts of yore who has brought the spectacular prehistoric wealth of Rajasthanâs Bundi district to the world map of archaeology is yearning for some well-deserved recognition. His work spanning two decades has even led to the discovery of an ancient civilisation in the Hadauti region.

Om Prakash Sharma alias Kukki hardly fits into the image of a professional archaeologist. An eighth standard drop-out, he owns a grocery shop in Bundi town but has devoted his life to the search for priceless antiques and archaeological sites in the nearby Vindhyachal mountain ranges.

The 54-year-old amateur archaeologist has discovered as many as 55 sites of rock paintings belonging to the Mesolithic-Chalcolithic age which provide a glimpse of the flora and fauna of the prehistoric era, and accomplished a remarkable exploration of copper age tools at Namana and elsewhere.

Subsequent excavations by the Archaeological Survey of India (ASI) at Namana confirmed that the hilly area was the centre of a pre-Harappan civilisation.

The ASI recognised Kukkiâs discovery of three copper tools â two sharp-edged axes and a scraper â from the site in the Indian Archaeology Review 1991-92.

Kukkiâs archaeological and numismatic finds include tools such as chopper, cleaver, hand-axe, knife, unpainted black and red pottery, utensils, terracotta beads and toys of copper age and coins of the Mauryan and post-Gupta period as well as the Lodhi and Mughal dynasties.

âI always knew that Bundi has a treasure trove of ancient civilisation. But my claim that the 35-km-long stretch along the Gararda rivulet containing hundreds of rock shelters is the longest archaeological site in the world has few takers,â Kukki told The Hindu, adding that the oldest coin he had found so far dates back to 400 B.C.

Zealous explorer

The zealous explorer has come across the remnants of stone and copper ages at Namana, Gagosh, Rajgarh, Chatras, Bijnawar and Khatkar â all in the vicinity of Bundi where the Vindhyachal ranges form an important segment of Hadauti region.

Kukki has extensively read all available literature on archaeology to compare his work with that undertaken in other parts of the world.

âMy discoveries are second to none at the global level. While researchers in Western countries instantly win laurels, I am still longing to get recognition,â he laments.

Significantly, Kukki has never used his discoveries to make himself richer. He has honestly deposited all the major artefacts with the Rajasthan government and donated his valuable finds to the government museums.

http://www.hindu.com/2009/06/07/stories/...060700.htm

HareKrishna · (This post was last modified: 06-13-2009, 02:54 PM by HareKrishna.)

[quote=Mudy,May 30 2009, 11:07 PM]
[url=http://www.telegraphindia.com//1090530/jsp/nation/story_11040024.jsp][b]400-year-old cannonballs in Assam

For a moment i readed -the 400 years of cannibalism in Assam-.My racist mind see only bad things in tropical people.

06-24-2009, 04:07 PM

Not quite sure where it goes... but here it is..

Research team traces origin of life to India
http://www.deccanchronicle.com/internation...-life-india-037
June 24th, 2009
PTI

Washington, June 23: Complex life forms may have evolved on the earth 400 million years earlier than previously thought, a new study of fossils found in India has suggested.

An international team, led by Birger Rasmussen of the Curtin University of Technology, conducted the study in India which it claims opens a whole new window to the beginning of life on our planet.

âNew sampling of the Vindhyan basin in India has confirmed the presence of fossils older than has been previously accepted. These fossils, which are more than 1.6 billion years old, are likely to be more than a billion years older than what was previously accepted for fossils found in this region.

âThey are also between 400 and 600 million years older than any multi-cellular life found anywhere on the planet,â Prof. Rasmussen said.

According to the researchers, the reason for the differences in the result from this test compared to earlier research was that the team used the worldâs best practices to get the job done right.

âThis was the first independent test done in the region. In previous reports material separation may have contaminated by other rock samples.

âThe team that I worked with wanted to avoid prospects of contamination, so we made sure the fossils were separated from the surrounding rocks in labs that we were certain could do the job correctly.

âThe age of the fossils was determined using lead dating of the phosphorate in the fossils. This is deposited with the organic material that becomes fossilised when it is buried in the sea floor, billions of years ago. This form of testing is generally very accurate when we are looking at a time scale of over a billion years,â Prof. Rasmussen said.

dhu · 07-13-2009, 12:04 PM

QUOTEMaybe any theory is just a fashion and a matter of arguments, luck and support. Before the European colonised the world, no Indian believed they came from elsewhere, nor was there any gap between people from Iran to India. (this changed when the people tried to wipe out their pre-Muslim past)

After becoming part through England of an European way of thinking, India was looked upon through classical Roman-Greek and Christian eyes. Of course this had an impressive impact on the minds of both Indian and European. Ideas and habits take time to be rooted, and even more time to be uprooted. (Just try to get rid of a simple annoying habit, it will cause more annoyance)

Now that India tries to get rid of that annoying way of looking upon her culture, she gets an even more annoying reply. Being labeled as 'Hindutva" sounds like a slap on the face for trying to seek for justice and truth. The more sincere researches are put on the same pile with less sincere shouts. And that is a pity.

An academist should look to bare facts. And the fact is that no Aryan invasion is ever proven. It would be more sensical to look at facts as how they are: If any mention of Yavana is in any book, are they really Greeks of Alexandrian age, or are other people mentioned? When the Kashmirian Chronical of Kalhana mentions a Kanishka who ruled over Kashmir and midwestern India, it doesn't mean that he is the Kushana king of roundabout 80 AD or so. For, Kalhana calls that Kanishka a Turushka Shaka! And his reign was before the Gupta Age!

Another fanciful hypothesis is the equation of Xandrames-Sandrocottos-Amitrochates with Dhana Nanda-Chandragupta-Bindusara Maurya. The more logical equations are Candra(mas) Gupta I- Samudra Gupta-Chandra Gupta II (this last is Vikramaditya, the Amitraghata or crusher of enemies, the Shaka tribes).

The Greek historians like Arrianus, Diodorus and Curtius mention facts that agree with a Prakrit play named as Kaumudimahotsava, but also with the description of Vishvaphani in the Puranas and Samudra Gupta (Sa-undra in Prakrit, becoming Sandro in Greek).

It would be very strange for Greeks to meet Mauryas, but not name them, as even Magadha isn't named. They name the Prasii =Prachya). Even more strange is the name Palibothra, which can hardly be a correct Greek rendering of Pataliputra. Palibothra sounds more like Paribhadra, who dwelled on the Ganges.

It is nonsensical for Ashoka to inherite a vast empire of his father from north to south and to reconquer it again. The Kalinga War was more logically the war of Samudra Gupta against a confederacy of Sout-Indian kings as can be deduced from his Allahabad Inscription.

Pliny (VI-21-22-23) says: At the time of Alexander, the Andhras were reputed to possess a military force second only to that of the command of the king of the Prasii.

When was there a military power of Andhras in the Mauryan days? No Mauryan emperor mentions them!

Note that Samudra Gupta was named Ashokaditya, as the Mauryan king was named Ashokavardhana!

In the Manjushrimulakalpa, a Buddhistic work, the description of Samudra Gupta fits well with that of the conqueror Ashoka of the inscriptions.
The Piyadassi Inscriptions are of twofold nature: the ones which belong to Ashoka Maurya and the ones which belong to Ashoka Gupta or Samudra.

The Guptas were (Bhagavata) Hindus, under whose rule many classical works were written. Buddhism was in the more remote areas of western India and Pakistan, where the Bactrian Greeks were (for instance Milinda-Menandros as Buddhist, but Heliodorus becoming a Bhagavata in the Mathura area, part of Guptan Empire).

This means that the Guptas ruled from 329 BC-82 BC and not from 324-550 AD. How could the Guptas rule at a time when the Kushanas were a threat. The Guptas don't even mention Kushanas, but only Shakas!. The last king to defeat the Shakas is Harsha Vikramaditya of the Vikrama Era of 57 BC. Harsha is named as a Guptabhrtya King, which means that he and his father came after the Guptas.

This automatically means that the Mauryas were far earlier in time than now is taught in the history books.

And the ancient history of India is mainly based on the inscriptions of Ashoka! From that anchor is back-dated the birthyear of Buddha, another relative anchor. Om Buddha's date is based the whole Vedic chronology, for Buddha is thought to come after the oldest Upanishads.

The Puranas place the Barhadrathas, Pradyotas-Haryanka, Kalashoka-Shaishunagas, Nandas, Mauryas, Shungas, Kanvas and Andhras before the rise of the Guptas of 329-82 BC. That is a whole block of names with many developments and stories, making the so -called dark or unknown ages more known.

Buddha is to be placed during the Pradyotas-Haryankas, as Mahavira. During Pushyamitra Shunga is to be placed Patanjali's Mahabhashya. That is far older than the third century BC ascibed to this Patanjali. A contemporary of Pushyamitra is Abhimanyu of Kashmir who crushed the Turushka Shakas, who ruled with their kings Hushka, Jushka and Kanishka (different from the Kushana of post 78 AD).

This demonstrates that the chronology of the traditional AIT school is not correct as is presented.
QUOTEAbout the Guptas

The Imperial Guptas ruled from 329-82 BC. The names of Xandrames and Sandrocottos/Sandrogyptus tally with Chandramas Gupta and Samudra Gupta, but also de deeds Samudra and the so called Ashoka.

The Imperial Guptas are descended from the barber (possibly Karaskaras-the later Kakkar, who lived from Panjab/Multan towards Sind and Baluchistan), Ghatotkacha Gupta.

The names of this dynasty are these:
Chandra Gupta
Samudra Gupta
Chandra Gupta II Vikramaditya (who succeeded his weak brother Rama Gupta->Shaka episode)
Kumara Gupta I
Skanda Gupta
Puru Gupta
Budha Gupta
Narasimha Gupta
Kumara Gupta II = Vainya Gupta?
Vishnu Gupta = Bhanu Gupta?

The Guptas of the second period ruled after the fall of the Kushanas (whose power was paralyzed by the Sassanian Arya of Persia), supremely from ca. 320-570 AD, and their power declined after ca. 570 AD:

Krishna Gupta
Harsha Gupta
Jivita Gupta I
Kumara Gupta I
Damodara Gupta
Mahasena Gupta
Madhava Gupta
Kumara Gupta II
Adityasena
Deva Gupta
Vishnu Gupta contemporary of Harsha and Pulakeshin
Jivita Gupta II

The confusion is understandable because of duplicate names. Moreover when the Guptas speak of foreigners as invaders, we have to be very cautious about which ones related to which Gupta or other Indian power. We have also to take into account what other power is present in the neighbourhood of the subcontinent, like the Sassanian and Kushana kings in AD and the Shakas in BC. The Chinese mention the movements of the tribes of Yueh Chih (Kushana) which tallies with AD chronolgy.

HareKrishna · 07-13-2009, 07:42 PM

When Ashoka really lived acording whit the theory above?
If Gupta lived in Maurya times the who ruled in 300-500AD in their place?
This theory bring a chain of changes.I read more about it.It says that Pataliputra was not on Gange but in Afganistan and Buddha lived in that area(the first buddhist documents came from there not from Gange).

**acharya** · 07-14-2009, 02:48 AM

QUOTE(HareKrishna @ Jul 13 2009, 02:12 AM)When Ashoka really lived acording whit the theory above?
If Gupta lived in Maurya times the who ruled in 300-500AD in their place?
This theory bring a chain of changes.I read more about it.It says that Pataliputra was not on Gange but in Afganistan and Buddha lived in that area(the first buddhist documents came from there not from Gange).
[right][snapback]99651[/snapback][/right]

Is nalanda also in Afganistan

HareKrishna · 07-14-2009, 04:01 PM

QUOTE(acharya @ Jul 14 2009, 02:48 AM)<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(HareKrishna @ Jul 13 2009, 02:12 AM)When Ashoka really lived acording whit the theory above?
If Gupta lived in Maurya times the who ruled in 300-500AD in their place?
This theory bring a chain of changes.I read more about it.It says that Pataliputra was not on Gange but in Afganistan and Buddha lived in that area(the first buddhist documents came from there not from Gange).
[right][snapback]99651[/snapback][/right]

Is nalanda also in Afganistan
[right][snapback]99653[/snapback][/right]
</div>
my mistake.
I confused whit another theory which i posted some time ago.Maybe someone will make an opinion about the 3 links from bellow.

Here it is:
Jan 10 2009, 10:44 PM

I found an article that claim that Asoka was Diodotus,his capital was in Patali(in Afganistan) not Patna in Bihar;that Afganistan was inhabited by indians and Buddha was from there.
http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com...-myth.html

http://www.ranajitpal.com

http://www.ranajitpal.com/zoroaster.html

Who is Diodotus - Greek Myth
Ashoka is Diodotus
Magadha, Palibothra and Jones' Blunder
The Palace of Palibothra may be under the ruins of Patali
Gotama Buddha and the Nepalese Bluff in World History
An India within Iran
Fuhrer's Fraud in the Epigraphy and Archaeology of India and Nepal
Spread of Early Buddhism - Into Iran or Out of it?
D. Schlumberger On the Origin of Greco-Buddhist Art

**acharya** · 07-14-2009, 06:22 PM

Question remains the same.

Is Nalanda in Afghanistan?

HareKrishna · 07-14-2009, 08:17 PM

QUOTE(acharya @ Jul 14 2009, 06:22 PM)Question remains the same.

Is Nalanda in Afghanistan?
[right][snapback]99663[/snapback][/right]

Acording whit theory from the 3 links above,Nalanda was a marginal town in Bihar and become buddhist center and university only later in time(4-5century AD).
Taxila(in Punjab) was the first big center of buddhism(near Afganistan).

dhu · 07-14-2009, 10:55 PM

QUOTEAshoka is Diodotus
[right][snapback]99660[/snapback][/right]


Why just Pataliputra in Afganistan. Why not entire Magadha??

The "theory" always fails at second level. Decontextualize, locate into neutral territory, and appropriate.

**acharya** · 07-14-2009, 11:07 PM

QUOTE(HareKrishna @ Jul 14 2009, 02:47 AM)
Acording whit theory from the 3 links above,Nalanda was a marginal town in Bihar and become buddhist center and university only later in time(4-5century AD).
Taxila(in Punjab) was the first big center of buddhism(near Afganistan).

Nalanda was the first center. Bodh Gaya was in Vihara.

Again the question remains the same

Is Nalanda in Afghanistan?
*

HareKrishna · 07-14-2009, 11:54 PM

QUOTE(acharya @ Jul 14 2009, 11:07 PM)<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(HareKrishna @ Jul 14 2009, 02:47 AM)
Acording whit theory from the 3 links above,Nalanda was a marginal town in Bihar and become buddhist center and university only later in time(4-5century AD).
Taxila(in Punjab) was the first big center of buddhism(near Afganistan).

Nalanda was the first center. Bodh Gaya was in Vihara.

Again the question remains the same

Is Nalanda in Afghanistan?
*
[right][snapback]99670[/snapback][/right]
</div>
This was already answered.You cant make spring whit a single flower.

Jones' view that the crucial state of Magadha was Bihar is baseless. Magan in west-Baluchistan must have been the early Magadha. Manu of the RigVeda was Manium of Magan . The Sumerian records always cite Dilmun, Magan, and Melukhkha together which implies that they probably formed a confederation. Manu was the king of Dilmun, Magan and Melukhkha.

ramana · 07-15-2009, 01:04 AM

QUOTE(HareKrishna @ Jul 14 2009, 06:24 PM)<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(acharya @ Jul 14 2009, 11:07 PM)<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(HareKrishna @ Jul 14 2009, 02:47 AM)
Acording whit theory from the 3 links above,Nalanda was a marginal town in Bihar and become buddhist center and university only later in time(4-5century AD).
Taxila(in Punjab) was the first big center of buddhism(near Afganistan).

Nalanda was the first center. Bodh Gaya was in Vihara.

Again the question remains the same

Is Nalanda in Afghanistan?
*
[right][snapback]99670[/snapback][/right]
</div>
This was already answered.You cant make spring whit a single flower.

Jones' view that the crucial state of Magadha was Bihar is baseless. Magan in west-Baluchistan must have been the early Magadha. Manu of the RigVeda was Manium of Magan . The Sumerian records always cite Dilmun, Magan, and Melukhkha together which implies that they probably formed a confederation. Manu was the king of Dilmun, Magan and Melukhkha.
[right][snapback]99671[/snapback][/right]
</div>

That would be the old Saraswati Civilization right?

ramana · (This post was last modified: 07-15-2009, 01:34 AM by ramana.)

In continuation of above post:

1) Dilmun not yet identified

which supercedes this article:

2)Dilmun maps

3)Wiki on Dilmun

On Magan

1) Wiki on Magan

which links to
2) Digging in the land of Magan

and

Aramco article

3)The Lost Land

On Melukhaka

Melukhaka

french Wiki.

So what does Greek Synchronicity say about all this?

Were there two Maghadas/ One earlier of the Indus phase and the other of latter times?

Meanwhile Non Jonesian Indology

Very expensive but illuminating table of contents.

I like the way he seems to link the Medes to Madhyadesa!

ramana · 07-15-2009, 01:39 AM

Here are the book details from Amazon;

QUOTEProduct Details
Paperback: 268 pages
Publisher: Minerva Press India Pvt Ltd (March 15, 2003)
ISBN-10: 8176620327
ISBN-13: 978-8176620321



Can we have some India based members try to get it at lower price. $160 or 160 punds is too much!

HareKrishna · 07-15-2009, 04:02 AM

Language of ancient Crete(2500BC-1500BC)

Beginning our research with inscriptions in Linear A carved on offering tables found in the many peak sanctuaries on the mountains of Crete, we recognise a clear relationship between Linear A and Sanskrit, the ancient language of India. There is also a connection to Hittite and Armenian. This relationship allows us to place the Minoan language among the so-called Indo-European languages, a vast family that includes modern Greek and the Latin of Ancient Rome.

The Minoan and Greek languages are considered to be different branches of Indo-European. The Minoans probably moved from Anatolia to the island of Crete about 10,000 years ago. There were similar population movements to Greece. The relative isolation of the population which settled in Crete resulted in the development of its own language, Minoan, which is considered different to Mycenaean. In the Minoan language (Linear A), there are no purely Greek words, as is the case in Mycenaean Linear B; it contains only words also found in Greek, Sanskrit and Latin, i.e. sharing the same Indo-European origin.

http://www.cretegazette.com/2006-02/minoan-language.php

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