Christian Subversion And Missionary Activities - 5

[Husky]

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http://vijayvaani.com/FrmPublicDisplayAr...spx?id=630
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin--><b>Inter-faith dialogue: Vatican in sheep’s clothing - 1</b>     
Radha Rajan

Inter-faith dialogue is only modified weapon of mass destruction
The Vatican wolf is at our doors again playing grandmother and perhaps hoping that the Hindu religious leadership with whom it wants ‘dialogue’ and the de-Hinduised political leadership which permitted its entry into the nation will play naive Red Riding Hood. Among the several individual Hindu religious leaders who will be meeting the Vatican’s Pontifical Council for inter-faith dialogue in Mumbai on the 12th and 13th of June 2009, will be the senior Mathathipathi of the Kanchi matham, monks of the Ramakrishna Mission, Sri Sri Ravishankar and one Swami Chidanand Saraswati from Divine Life Society, Uttaranchal.
(Was expecting nothing from the last two. But RK and Kanchi Mathas' responses can have value for Hindus.)<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->(Wish Radha Rajan would drop the repeated "Church and Islam" phrase. It is *christianism* and islam. Else we may all as well go back to calling it the "church/missionaries, mullahs and marxists" again, thereby once more ignoring their root causes of christianism, islamism and communism.)


<b>Anyway, the transcript of what the Kanchi Shankaracharya has stated</b> is at Sandhya's site:
http://vijayvaani.com/FrmPublicDisplayAr...spx?id=633
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin--><b>Perivaar: stop converting Hindus; stop USCIRF       
HH Swami Jayendra Saraswati Ji</b>
13 Jun 2009


<i>[Yesterday, Swami Jayendra Saraswati Ji, Sankaracharya of Kanchi Kamakoti Matham, met Cardinal Jean-Louis Pierre Tauran, president of Vatican’s Pontifical Council for Inter-religious Dialogue, and others, in Mumbai for a Hindu-Catholic dialogue. <b>The meeting was closed door, but informed sources said it was high voltage and shut the door on future dialogue unless all church denominations agree to eschew conversions.</b> Below is the text of the prepared speech of Pujya Perivaar, which He relied upon when making His presentation – Editor]</i>


1] Exactly one month ago to the date, the Pope went to Jerusalem where Jesus was born, for a similar dialogue that the Vatican had undertaken with the Chief Rabbinate of Israel. At the end of that meeting when the Pope and Ashkenazi Chief Rabbi Yona Metzer jointly addressed the Press and Media, the Chief Rabbi thanked the Pope for assuring the Chief Rabbinate that the Catholic Church would desist and cease from all missionary and conversion activities among the Jews. This is construed as endorsed and agreed by the Pope since he was present in the press meet. We need a similar commitment from the Church for Hindus.

2] After such inter-faith meetings, the points agreed have to be faithfully abided. Otherwise the will be no point in holding such meetings. Unless the Church reassures Hindus that it will not conduct itself in a manner that wounds Hindu sensibilities and follows up on those assurances, such inter-faith meetings, no matter how frequently they are held, will be futile and will not serve any meaningful cause.

3] In 1999, Pope Johan Paul II had stated that the mission of the Vatican was to plant the Cross in Asia in the third millennium to facilitate the Christianizing of the world, which alone would cause the Second Coming of Jesus Christ. The Pope must tell us the rationale for the First Coming of Jesus Christ when there was no Christianity or the Church to undertake the mission to Christianize the world.

4] We see the USCIRF (US Commission on International Religious Freedom) as an intrusive mechanism of a foreign government to interfere in the internal affairs of this country. The USCIRF, which has been permitted to visit this country to hold meetings with our people to ascertain religious freedom in our country, must no longer be permitted to enter this country on this intrusive mission. We will not allow external interference into our internal affairs.

5] We know that very large amounts of money come into this country for Churches and Christian groups, ostensibly for charitable work. These funds should be used only for social causes like health, education etc and should not be used for religious conversion. During these dialogues, it should be agreed that the funds should be distributed to all Organisations who do charitable work, irrespective of the organisations’ religious faith. A common pool should be created and a Committee formed to distribute and monitor the usage of these funds.

6] It has become easy for the Missionaries to convert Hindus. All Hindu Organisations and Associations should work together to educate Hindus and eradicate the conversion activity.

7] Hindu dharma is by nature diverse and so all different panthas and sampradayas co-exist on this bhumi without seeking to destroy the others. Hindu dharma has nurtured and supported all faiths and religions because that is the way of dharma. We expect that religions which have come into this bhumi from other lands will respect this vital characteristic of Hindu dharma and not do anything to subvert or disturb the sense of nationhood of this country. Hindu dharma and the Hindu people welcome Christians and Muslims, Parsis and Jews to make this land their home. We expect from these religions that they will not seek to destroy our faith, our religion and wound our religious sensibilities. We encourage all religions to live with mutual respect and harmony in a shared sense of nationalism which should bind us all as one nation. Nationalism should come first.

8] We are aware of the preaching that they [church] will cure diseases and ailments if the individual converts to their faith. This is illegal as per the DRUGS AND MAGIC REMEDIES ACT 1954.

9] Most of the countries in the world (USA, UK, Japan, Middle-east nations, Pakistan, Sri Lanka etc.), adopt national resolutions and statements of intent proclaimed by their governments and their tallest religious bodies, affirming their determination to protect and defend the culture and the religion from which their cultures derive. In India alone we pass resolutions which officially and legally promote an irreligious and unspiritual creed called secularism. Secularism is an administrative quality; it cannot be the soul of this nation. The soul of this nation is religious and spiritual. We call upon our government and other important religious bodies to recognize this truth and affirm their commitment to protect the soul of this nation.

10] The Buddhist Mahasangha and the Joint Committee of Buddhist Organizations have declared their intention to get the Sri Lankan government to pilot and pass a national anti-conversion Bill and make it law. We welcome this move and strongly endorse this measure.

11] The Church in India must stop forthwith the use of Hindu religious words, phrases and symbols like Veda, Agama, Rishi, Ashrama, Om and other such in what is referred to as ‘inculturation’ tactics, but which are only intended to deceive the vulnerable sections of our people who are the intended targets for religious conversion. This is also insulting to and wounding the religious sensitivities of Hindus. Similarly it has been brought to our notice that some churches are scripting a new Bible for the new converts by usurping sections of our sacred Vedas, Upanishads and Puranas and incorporating them into the Bible. This must stop immediately and all such Bibles must be withdrawn from circulation. We urge the Indian government to look into the issue and do the needful.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin--><b>User Comments:</b>

  Grateful for providing your humble readers what Pujya Swami Jayendra Saraswati Ji, Sankaracharya of Kanchi Kamakoti Matham told the missionaries. I would appreciate if you would tell us what other self styled Hindu representatives like Mr Sri Ravishankar & Swami Chidanand Saraswati from Divine Life spoke during the meeting. I know you have good sources to convey your readers what exactly transpired with the religious imperialists in Mumbai. Prabhu Jagannath is Great. At least, there was a strong voice. For, I never trusted the rest. Pranam Sandhyaji. 
  Kuna Mohanty 
  13 Jun 2009<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

What the Swami did not say, but which all Natural Traditionalists the world over should:
http://www.jesusneverexisted.com
<i>Christianism is terrorism. Get lost christianism.</i>
Same to islamism and communism. Get lost terrorisms.

[Husky]

^ Important.

Also important:

http://vijayvaani.com/FrmPublicDisplayAr...spx?id=628
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin--><b>Atma Jyoti Ashram: in sheep’s clothing?     
Swami Devananda Saraswati</b>
(Of Hamsa.org, who pens under the pseudonym Ishwar Sharan)
13 Jun 2009


In Catholic Ashrams: Sannyasins or Swindlers, Sita Ram Goel describes the Christian missionary strategists’ plan to infiltrate Hindu society and gain the confidence of the people:
“Christianity has to drop its alien attire and get clothed in Hindu cultural forms. In short, Christianity has to be presented as an indigenous faith. Christian theology has to be conveyed through categories of Hindu philosophy; Christian worship has to be conducted in the manner and with the materials of Hindu puja. Christian sacraments have to sound like Hindu samskaras; Christian churches have to copy the architecture of Hindu temples; Christian hymns have to be set to Hindu music; Christian themes and personalities have to be presented in styles of Hindu painting; Christian missionaries have to dress and live like Hindu sannyasins; Christian mission stations have to look like Hindu ashramas. And so on, the literature of Indigenization goes into all aspects of Christian thought, organization and activity and tries to discover how far and in what way they can be disguised in Hindu forms.”


Sita Ram Goel wrote this in 1988, and he would not be surprised to learn that Christian priests and monks in America have adopted these very tactics to attract a whole generation of American youth interested in Hindu spirituality, back to Christianity. The leader in this movement today is Abbot George Burke of Atma Jyoti Ashram in Cedar Crest, New Mexico. He is better known on the Internet as Swami Nirmalananda Giri.


Isha Jyoti to Atma Jyoti


Atma Jyoti Ashram was originally called Sri Isha (Jesus) Jyoti Sannyas Ashram and was located at Borrego Springs, California.  Fr. George Burke is a Greek Orthodox Christian priest, and if reports are correct, most or all of the community of brothers attached to him are Christian priests.


On a visit to India, Fr. George met the Bengali saint Ananda Mai Ma. She is said to have instructed him to remain in the Christian religion and continue his Christian practices. This is not unusual advice from a Hindu guru. In spite of their enlightenment, most are grossly ignorant of Christianity’s ideology and imperial designs, its triumphant, sectarian prayers and bloody rituals. Hindu gurus advise their foreign followers to remain in the religion of their forefathers, not realizing the negative consequences of their thoughtless words.


This kind of advice is irresponsible, especially when made to foreign seekers who take the guru’s instruction as divine word. Christianity is based on a false doctrine of vicarious salvation, and there is nothing in Hindu scripture or the ancient Rishi tradition to support the ill-conceived advice handed out to foreign seekers by Hindu teachers who do not want to take spiritual responsibility for their charges.


Ananda Mai’s alleged instruction suited Fr. George and his followers to a T, and they quoted her later as their authority to don the ochre robes of Hindu sannyasis and adopt the Sanskrit titles and names of Smarta Dasnami monks. The fact that Ananda Mai Ma was not an initiated Dasnami sannyasi and had no authority to give them ochre robes or Dasnami titles did not deter them in the impersonation drama.


They continued to perform the bloody sacrifice of the Christian Mass in secret, even as they presented themselves in public as simple, unaffiliated Hindu monks. It was the old fraud of Robert de Nobili and Henri Le Saux being repeated on an unsuspecting public, only this time it was an American and not an Indian public being duped by persuasive snake oil salesmen.


<b>Om on Cross</b>

At one point in their career, while still the Sri Isha Jyoti Sannyas community in Borrego Springs, they were caught out in their charade by none other than the Shaiva Siddhanta Church in Hawaii. The brothers did carpentry for a living, being followers of the Carpenter, and one of the items they produced for sale was a Roman cross with the sacred Hindu word-symbol Om nailed to its cross bars. They sent a sample to Hinduism Today with the hope of attracting sales. They got instead a negative response and a return of the obscene article. Hindus, even modern American Hindu converts, are deeply offended by this kind of syncretism and do not understand the appeal it has for New Agers and gay Christian priests who flaunt it on their cassock fronts as a sign of their radical universalism.

Catholic writer S. Kulandaiswami said vis-à-vis Fr. Bede Griffiths and his bastardized Om-on-Cross iconography:
“Ritual, rites, [and] ceremonies in Hinduism have not been changed to suit the whims of modern innovators. Griffiths, by superimposing the sacred word Om on a Cross, imagines he has created a new spiritual phenomenon. On the contrary, he confuses and insults both Hinduism and Christianity. He fails to realize that by such acts he is neither enriching Christianity nor honouring Hinduism. One has to respect the unique rites and rituals of each religion, which placed in another context, will be meaningless and confusing.”

In a later debate published in the letters column of the Indian Express, Chennai, in 1989, the Hindu correspondent S. Venkatachalam wrote: “It is highly outrageous and objectionable to compare … Hindu leaders and religious heads with the Christian missionary experimentalists like Bede Griffiths, Hans Staffner [and the] Christian missionary Fr. Henri Le Saux, the so-called Abhishiktananda… Swami Vivekananda, Gandhiji, Ramana Maharshi and Paramacharya of Kanchi never resorted to such experimentation of a “cocktail religion” or “masala and kichidi religion” by mixing religious symbols, donning the dress of [a Christian] father or [Muslim] mullah, building church-like or mosque-like temples, fabricating Bible- or Quran-like Hindu slokas, or asserting that Rama or Krishna or Shiva is the only God and by accepting Him alone one can get salvation.”

The Sri Isha (Jesus) Jyoti Sannyas Ashram brothers did not succeed in pedalling their original handcrafted Om-on-Cross to the Hindus of Hawaii then, but in their new incarnation as sadhus of Atma Jyoti Ashram they have succeeded in getting advertising space in Hinduism Today and the sponsorship of Ramana Ashram in Tiruvannamalai. Yet they remain, so far as we know, Christian priests in orange robes with false Sanskrit names and titles, the usual New Age bells and beads added. They are quite a success in Christian duplicity, if not in true Hindu spirituality.

The sponsorship of Ramana Ashram and the publication of the Atma Jyoti Ashram brothers’ articles under assumed Hindu names in the Ramana Ashram journal Mountain Path is not really surprising. Sri Ramana Ashram is a family business headed by a hereditary trustee. The current president is the Advaita Vedanta paralogist V.S. Ramanan. The ashram was declared a non-Hindu institution in 1963.


<b>Theosophists and Benedictines</b>

Though Ramanan is the editor of Mountain Path as required by law, the de facto editor is the Australian theosophist Christopher Quilkey, a disciple of the anti-modernist French Sufi Rene Guenon. Quilkey is assisted by the American Catholic Benedictine monk Brother Michael.

Brother Michael divides his time between Shanti Vanam near Tiruchirappalli, the Benedictine hermitage of the notorious Christian missionary Fr. Bede Griffiths, and Ramana Ashram in Tiruvannamalai. He is a Catholic priest and will say Mass whenever and wherever the Catholic spirit moves him, including Ramana Ashram and other places of Hindu pilgrimage and worship. His other duty is to vet articles sent to Mountain Path and forward them to Christopher Quilkey in Kodaikanal for acceptance and publication. Ramanan shows little or no interest in the articles selected for publication, and though the ashram follows Vedic Brahminical traditions and can afford to employ a professional, it is not able to find and keep a responsible and dedicated Hindu editor for its magazine.

Ramanan appears to be in a state of denial regarding Christians in his own ashram and missionaries in general. He writes, “There is no doubt that Christianity has, over centuries been a proselytizing religion and some of the preachers had indulged in scurrilous propaganda against Hindu beliefs and mores. But there is nothing to worry. The worst is over and the Vedantic Truth is eternal and imperishable. I know a number of Christian priests who revere Hinduism and Vedanta. It is well known that Westerners are increasingly being drawn to Yoga and Vedanta which Swami Vivekananda called the ‘Religion of the Future.’”


Nothing to worry, eh? The worst is over, eh? Either Ramanan is a fool or he is in league with the Christian missionaries who publish in the ashram journal.

The first articles to appear in Mountain Path by an Atma Jyoti Ashram member were by a Catholic priest who resides in Tiruvannamalai and calls himself Swami Sadasivananda Giri. The articles were inoffensive enough, but because it was known to a number of sadhus and Ramana Ashram devotees that the author was in fact a Christian priest masquerading as a Hindu sannyasi, the matter was brought to the Ramana Ashram president’s attention with the request that Sadasivananda be identified by his real Christian name and titles to Mountain Path readers.

The letter was ignored, and when the April-June 2009 issue of Mountain Path appeared, it was discovered that not only did Swami Sadasivananda’s article appear without proper identification, but an article by Fr. George Burke, Greek Orthodox abbot of Atma Jyoti Ashram, New Mexico, was also included under the name Swami Nirmalananda Giri. The request to identify Christian contributors to the journal was not only denied by the Ramana Ashram president Ramanan, but a strong message of  contempt and scorn  for Hindu sannyas traditions was given out by the Mountain Path editor and his dubious, uncommitted assistants.


Infiltration by impersonation


The problem of Christian priests and missionaries masquerading as Hindu sannyasis is an old one in India. The impersonation drama was first carried out by Robert de Nobili in Madurai in the 17th century.


It was continued and made notorious by Fr. Bede Griffiths (aka Swami Dayananda) in the 20th century, though his collaborator, the French Benedictine monk Fr. Henri Le Saux, was without doubt the most successful Hindu sadhu impersonator. He is known to this day by his assumed Sanskrit name Swami Abhishiktananda, and had none other than the late Swami Chidananda Saraswati of Sivananda Ashram in Rishikesh as a patron.


The new twist in the criminal impersonation of Hindu sadhus is that Christian priests in the US are adopting Hindu names and dress in order to deceive and entrap America seekers who have already rejected the false doctrines and superstitions of Christianity, in the hope of bringing them back to Jesus and the Church.


Missionary activity in India has peaked under the benevolent gaze of the Christian-Congress UPA regime of Sonia Gandhi. Andhra Pradesh is now said to be 30% Christian and growing, with Tamil Nadu following closely behind. Both states will soon rival Kerala with their Christian populations.


The real problem is not missionaries flashing American dollars or dressing up as sadhus in order to deceive unsuspecting villagers. Christians in India are doing what Christians have always done throughout history: they are subverting and subsuming the non-Christian cultures and societies that they are not able to conquer by force.


The real problem is with Hindu leaders - political, social, cultural, and religious leaders. They are first of all in a state of denial, unwilling or unable to admit the Christian threat and the grave implications it has for Hindu civilization and society. Or, like the editors of the Ramana Ashram journal Mountain Path, they take the out-dated, irresponsible, and non-Vedic theosophical view that all religions are one and the same anyway, so what does it matter if a few million villagers become dollar Christians.


Or, and this is especially true of Hindu religious leaders, they recognise the Christian threat, but are not sufficiently equipped or knowledgeable to counter it. Unlike Christian priests who study Hindu scriptures and doctrines in depth for years, they have never read the Bible or studied the imperialist Christian ideologies formulated out of the Bible story. They are helpless, and they are made even more helpless by their own superficially understood and secularised doctrines of an abstract, impersonal, and all-pervasive Brahman godhead.


Every popular religious teacher in India today espouses some form of Advaitic philosophy. Even the popular Chennai Christian newspaper Deccan Chronicle carries a weekly “spiritual” column of secularised Neo-Vedantic commentary called “Vedanta Rocks!” This de-mythologised Vedanta with its abstract terminology and concept of Oneness is the great love of the modern Indian secular sophist or Jesuit-trained Christian casuist. They can turn these Hindu concepts and ideals any which way they like and use them for any amoral purpose when taken out of their original Hindu religious context.


Deconstructing Advaita Vedanta


Most modern Indian religious teachers do take Advaita Vedanta out of its original Vedic religious context, and in so doing give a potent weapon to the enemy with which to attack Hindu religion and undermine Hindu society and culture. Sita Ram Goel, in Catholic Ashrams, writes: “[T]he literature of Indigenisation provides ample proof that several Hindu philosophies are being actively considered by the mission strategists as conveyors of Christianity. The Advaita of Shankaracharya has been the hottest favourite so far. The Vishistadvaita of Ramanuja, the Bhakti of the Alvar saints and Vaishnava Acharyas, the Integral Yoga of Sri Aurobindo and the Vichara of Ramana Maharishi are not far behind.”


The medieval Acharyas and more recent teachers of Vedic spirituality like Ramana Maharishi were able to know without difficulty the religious identity and affiliations of their disciples. They did not have to search out and verify their students’ political and religious backgrounds. This is no longer true today. Hindu society has become secularised in the cities and teachers are faced with multicultural audiences from different countries and traditions. It is therefore incumbent on all Hindu gurus in India and abroad to put their philosophical teaching into its original religious context, so that it cannot be distorted and abused by Hinduism’s scholarly Marxist and Christian enemies.


Apostle Paul and the Early Church Fathers conquered ancient Greece by forcibly secularising Greek society. They divided the unity of Greek religion and mythology from Greek philosophy and philosophic terminology. They then secularised and appropriated Greek philosophic terminology and took the Greek religious concept of an Unknown God for themselves. The religious vacuum that followed in Greek society was filled in with the Jesus cult and other Christian superstitions. Indian bishops are perpetrating the same apostolic fraud today when they claim the Tamil saint Tiruvalluvar was a disciple of the legendary St. Thomas! They add to their cultural crime by claiming his “secular” ethical treatise Tirukkural as their own sectarian Christian book.
(Precies.)

This is how ancient Greece became a Christian country, and how modern India is fast becoming a Christianised Hindu country. The difference is that in modern India, ill-informed Hindu spiritual teachers and ashram administrators are assisting Christian predators in the downfall and obliteration of Hindu religion and culture.

Perhaps we are mistaken; perhaps we have been misinformed about Atma Jyoti Ashram and its abbot Fr. George Burke. Perhaps he and his disciples have converted to Hinduism and gone through Vedic samskaras of purification and name change under the guidance of a Hindu priest.

If that is the case, let them produce their certificates of de-baptism and apostasy from the Christian religion. As they claim to be Smarta Dasnami sannyasins with Giri titles, let them produce their certificates of sannyasa from a recognised Dasnami mahamandaleshwar and math. They can post these important documents of religion on their website. We will then give them our blessing, for their good sense in religion and spiritual endeavour, and hold our peace.


<b>Links and References:</b>
1] Atma Jyoti Ashram and their Jesus-in-India propaganda with Swami Devananda's comments: http://vivekajyoti.blogspot.com/2009/02/je...dulterated.html
2] Hinduism Today, "Catholic Ashrams: Adopting and Adapting Hindu Dharma": http://www.hinduismtoday.com/archives/1986...986-12-03.shtml
3] Catholic Ashrams in Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Ashram
4] Catholic Ashrams: Sannyasins or Swindlers by Sita Ram Goel, Voice of India, New Delhi, 1994: http://www.indiaclub.com/shop/SearchResult...ProdStock=22597 
5] Christian Aggression: “Catholic Ashrams: Sachidananda Ashram gets a woman Acharya”             
http://www.christianaggression.org/item_di...S&id=1155837015     
6] History of Hindu-Christian Encounters by Sita Ram Goel, Voice of India, New Delhi, 1996:
http://voiceofdharma.org/books/hhce/
7] Radical Universalism by Frank Morales: http://www.dharmacentral.com/universalism.htm<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Hindus who think that all this inculturation (which they call indigenising of christianism) is a sign of Indian christianism returning to Hindu Dharma are a worry. They have no idea that inculturation was one of the tactics used to convert Rome (and Greece). Now where is Greco-Roman tradition? Hindus keep deluding themselves into thinking this christotactic of inculturation is not an attack but will 'work out in our favour in the end'. No it won't. Hindus ought to look to history for a precedent instead of closing their eyes and imagining Hindu Dharma will creep under christianism's skin and convert it to Hindu Dharma.
Inculturation is an offensive against Hindu Dharma. Should not be ignored.
But instead Hindus commenting at even more aware sites like HK make statements like:

http://www.haindavakeralam.com/HKPage.aspx...eID=8723&SKIN=C
<b>Boastful Imitations</b>
26/05/2009 03:37:43 GSK Menon

Comment:
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin--> Sarge
29/05/2009 01:35:09  Vidhyarambham for christians
Today's Deepika mentions that in Thrissur District, the church is planning to have a "Vidyarambham" session for kids joining school for the first time. Can you believe it ??
Looks like finally Christians will lose an identity as Christians and would be some thing like a new caste in Hinduism. They are celebrating all most all Hindu functions, with slight bit of christianity added to it : ).
One day if the Roman Catholic Pope comes to Kerala he may get a rude surprize.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->No wonder we're not winning. Hindus are unable to identify the threat. It is Hindus who will get a rude surprise.

Greco-Roman home altars and alcoves (puja areas) were stolen into christianism (which got an alcove and prie dieux, etc). Greco-Roman sacred festivals like Dionysus converting water into wine got turned into jeebus festivals of non-existent jeebes converting water into wine. GrecoRomans visiting their Goddess-with-Divine-Child temples in the empire had their Vigrahas converted into mary-with-jeebus and their temples into churches.
This is not a succes for anyone except christianism.

This is not the flattery of imitation either. It is calculated usurpation of important aspects of Hindu Dharma (that the church considers popular, hence to be used to lure more into sheepdom). It's The Steal Before The Kill.

[Husky]

And more on the above two posts:

The Terrorist Religion Of Lies caught lying again. Who'd have thunk.
(Emphasis somewhat the same as the original)

http://haindavakeralam.com/HKPage.aspx?P...801&SKIN=B
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin--><b>Exposed - Mumbai Arch Bishop's Blatant Lie</b>
12/06/2009 09:48:17  P. Deivamuthu

I attended the Press Conference, held today (12th June 2009) at 3.30 p.m. at the Shanmukhananda Hall, King Circle, Mumbai, addressed by Kanchi Shankaracharya Swamiji and the Archbishop of Mumbai, Cardinal Oswald Gracias, subsequent to the Inter-Religious Dialogue held at the same venue.

After their Press Briefing, when question time arrived, I put a question to Cardinal Oswald Gracias:

"In the Indian Community Bible released by Mumbai Catholic Church, you have included hundreds of verses from Vedas and Upanishads. Does this not amount to stealing the intellectual property of Hindus?".

The answer given by the Cardinal was <b>"I am not aware of this"</b>

Now look at the press reports published by Mumbai newspapers datelined July 09, 2008, reproduced below:

==============================================================

Mumbai, July 09, 2008: The Catholic Church has released a special Bible for India, one that has reference to Indian scriptures, uses Indian cultural and religious themes, and will appeal to the new generation.

The liberative knowledge of the spirit (atman) is to be attained through ‘seeing, listening, reflecting and meditating’ This verse from the hoary Brihadaranyaka Upanishad explains chapter 51 of the Book of Isaiah, in The New Community Bible (Catholic Edition) for India.

<span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%'>Church leaders called the book, that was released in Mumbai last month by the Archbishop of Bombay, Oswald Cardinal Gracias, "a work of lasting importance".</span>

Christened the ‘Indian Bible’, the book is the culmination of a significant 18-year long experiment by the local Catholic Church to adapt the Bible for the Indian community.

Thus, apart from using Indian cultural and religious themes in the narrative, the book also uses English that is familiar to Indians, unlike the older editions of the holy book.

This Indianised bible also dipicts Virgin Mary in a sari and Joseph clad in a loincloth and turban.

=============================================================

Having himself released the Book - The New Community Bible - the Cardinal had the temerity to say that he was not aware of it, in the presence of about 30 journalists and photographers. If this is not a blatant lie, what is it?

My subsequent question was:

"Does that mean that Bible was written by human beings, and has nothing to do with Jesus Christ?"

His answer was: "It was spoken by the God and written by people".

P. Deivamuthu
Editor, Hindu Voice<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Comments:
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Vijayalakshmi
12/06/2009 11:01:15  Exposed-Mumbai Archbishop's blatant lie.
Hats off to Sri Deivamuthu for cornering the deceitful Cardinal,who is bent on superimposing the hollow religion of christianity on the pristine Sanatana Dharma, inorder to cheat gullible and uneducated people.This is a clear proof that christianity is a fake and hollow religion.WE MUST EXPOSE THE EVIL MACHINATIONS OF THE CHURCH OF INDIA.

Hary Nambiar
12/06/2009 10:01:28  It is a lie
It is a lie perpetrated for centuries, for territorial expansion, social control and economic exploitation by using undue influence on uneducated people. You cannot change the minds of people who refuse to keep up with the advances in science and technology, but insists on hiding the head into sand of uncorroborated claims of ancient times. The wisdom in the Indian scriptures is in the public domain. Wicked people take advantage of it to satisfy their own perverted needs. However, it is bad manners to plagiarize. It is against the law too.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Christianism is just so much crap they need to steal from everyone to prop up their terrorist religion and make it somewhat appealing. But a mass of lies and theft remains only that: a stinking heap of dead carcass. The dead carcass of the non-existent jeebus. Pieeeuuuu.

[HareKrishna]

qwestion:can greek-catholicism(orthodox rituals but catholic doctrine) be considered a form of inculturation?

[Husky]

<!--QuoteBegin-HareKrishna+Jun 13 2009, 01:05 PM-->QUOTE(HareKrishna @ Jun 13 2009, 01:05 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->qwestion:can greek-catholicism(orthodox rituals but catholic doctrine) be considered a form of inculturation?
[right][snapback]98701[/snapback][/right]<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->Oh yes. Completely and utterly. The Greeks and Russians know this all too well. There's a pretty Ukrainian girl where I work who is Orthodox I think (actually, she could also be atheist, not sure....). Though Ukrainian, she, like many of her countrymen, owns to being Russian by ethnicity and by larger national affiliation. She most definitely considers the catholic church's inculturation routine in her country to be an act of direct aggression.

Repeating stuff pasted long ago:
http://freetruth.50webs.org/C3.htm#CatholicVsOrthodox
<b>Greece:</b>
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->    ...the most contentious issue for Orthodox believers are the Byzantine Catholics, who follow Eastern rites but are loyal to Rome. The Orthodox church views them as a kind of Trojan horse to convert Orthodox believers.

From: New York Times - Pope Visits <b>Greece</b> Today on a Tough Mission of Reconciliation, May 4, 2001<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd--><!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->    ...inroads made by the Catholic Church in other predominantly Orthodox states in eastern Europe have earned it a reputation for conversion.

    Fr Nektarios, abbot of a monastery on the Corinthian Gulf, said: "It is a fairytale to say that the Pope is just coming on a personal pilgrimage. He is doing this because he wants the Orthodox Church to recognise him. He wants recognition as a global religious leader.
    "Popes have fooled the Orthodox Church in the past. This pontiff will not be allowed to repeat the trick. He has the burden of history on his back. He cannot be trusted. You don't honour a criminal, you put him in jail."

From: Telegraph News - Pope's visit to Greece infuriates Orthodox Church, April 29, 2001<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd--><!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Guardian Unlimited - Pope's visit [to Orthodox Ukraine] fails to heal old wounds, June 28, 2001:

    With divisions between the Roman Catholic and Oxthodox churches as wide as ever, the Pontiff's efforts at reconciliation seem unlikely to succeed...

    Catholics and Orthodox have been clashing in Ukraine since the middle ages. They were still at it through the 1990s, when communist suppression melted away to expose unhealed old wounds from the distant past.

    This week, in his first ever visit to Ukraine as pope, John Paul has moved to try to settle the conflict before he dies. But the Moscow patriarchate has told the Vatican to get stuffed.

    John Paul's central ambition has been to undo the Great Schism and ultimately unite the two faiths while at the same time celebrating and paying tribute to the Greek Catholics of western Ukraine who suffered so grievously under Stalin and became the world's biggest banned church. But the two aims are incompatible. <b>The Orthodox still view the Greek Catholics as heretical apostates wooed or forced away by the Vatican, the Catholic Poles, and the Austro-Hungarians to assert Roman Catholicism and undermine Orthodoxy.</b>

    There is plenty historical accuracy in that view. But the legions of young, American-educated theologians who are an integral element of the current Vatican roadshow exude contempt for the arcane, old-fashioned conspiracy theories of the Orthodox. In Lviv on Wednesday, a million Catholics remembered the outstanding Uniate leader of the 20th century, Metropolitan Andrei Sheptytsky. But in Moscow they quote him as having declared: "Ukrainians are merely the instrument of the divine scheme to wrest the Christian east from the clutches of heresy [Orthodoxy] and house it in the bosom of the [Catholic] Apostolic See and the European Community." [I.e. the Uniate Sheptytsky admits Catholics in the East are a wedge to open Eastern Orthodoxy up for Catholicism. And it seems Ukraine's separation from Russia, to join with Europe instead, is expected to be a step towards that.]
    <b>And at Kiev's Monastery of the Caves</b>, Russian Orthodoxy's oldest shrine, crowds of devout elderly people prostrated themselves while <b>praying passionately for the pope to depart their country.</b>
    "I'm not going to talk about politics," said a black-robed Orthodox priest who declined to give his name. <b>"But the pope has never wished us well and can only bring us harm."</b>
(Exactly.)<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->IMO, the above is entirely catholic aggression too. Catholicism always uses inculturation to get a foot in the door.


http://freetruth.50webs.org/C3.htm#OrthodoxCatholic
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Some Greek Orthodox Christians compared the Pope to the Devil himself
New York Times - Pope Visits Greece Today on a Tough Mission of Reconciliation, May 4, 2001:
    Orthodox priests and monks have held protest vigils and marched under signs that read <b>"the heretic pope" and "two-horned monster of Rome."</b> Archbishop Christodoulos, head of the Greek Orthodox Church, has vowed not to pray alongside the Roman Catholic pope, who arrives in Athens on Friday.

Guardian Unlimited - Monks protest at Pope as Greece goes on strike, April 27, 2001:
    <b>"Out with the two-horned beast, the Pope of Rome 666!" read a banner. "No to the leader of heresy," read another.</b>

Telegraph News - Pope's visit to Greece infuriates Orthodox Church, April 29, 2001:
    <b>The Orthodox priest [Father Chrysostomos of Athens] declared: "He will infect our country,"</b>
    A poster outside Fr Chrysostomos's church spells out Orthodox opposition to the visit. <b>Denouncing the Pope as a "false prophet and the anti-Christ"</b> who adorns his mitre with "666", it announces a demonstration to be held tomorrow against the visit and lists the historical crimes for which successive popes were allegedly responsible.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->Hindus should use this to silence catholic verbal terrorists. Greek orthodox priests call the pope the devil and a heretic. And they should know how well he and his church fit the description, since Greek orthodoxy is more true to the original imperial Roman christianism than catholicism is. Catholicism, which regularly inquisitioned other christians for heresy, is a heresy itself. To hide it, the Vatican has spent a long time trying to convince people that orthodoxy is a catholic heresy instead (and frequently attempted to convert-or-kill eastern christianism into silence as a way to 'prove' that its claim is legitimate.)

[Bodhi]

<b>Dialogue with the Vatican in Mumbai on June 12, 2009</b>
Radha Rajan
Sat, 13 Jun 2009

Dear all, we have it on excellent authority that the inter-faith dialogue did not go as planned (by the Vatican and its Hindu apologists at home). We are told that no one except the religious leaders themselves and one or two persons to assist them in the dialogue were permitted in the hall. Pujya periava spoke as is characterisitc of him, in the softest tone possible, with the unfading smile never slipping from his face, in chaste Hindi. However from the statement that he realeased to the Press and Media after the dialogue, it is obvious that the soft tone and chaste Hindi shocked the gathering on the jaw. It is a good thing for Hindus that this time we had a man who knows his dharma and more importantly, like Sri Krishna, understands evil, spoke for this bhumi. RR

The Points that Pujya Periava made at the inter-faith dialogue and was made into a press statement.

1.Exactly one month ago to the date, the Pope went to Jerusalem where Jesus was born, for a similar dialogue that the Vatican had undertaken with the Chief Rabbinate of Israel. At the end of that meeting when the Pope and Ashkenazi Chief Rabbi Yona Metzer jointly addressed the Press and Media, the Chief Rabbi thanked the Pope for assuring the Chief Rabbinate that the Catholic Church would desist and cease from all missionary and conversion activities among the Jews. This is construed as endorsed and agreed by the Pope since he was present at the press meet. We need a similar commitment from the Church for Hindus.

2. After such inter-faith meetings, the points agreed have to be faithfully abided. Otherwise there will be no point in holding such meetings. Unless the Church reassures Hindus that it will not conduct itself in a manner that wounds Hindu sensibilities and follows up on those assurances, such inter-faith meetings, no matter how frequently they are held, will be futile and not serve any meaningful cause.

3. In 1999, Pope Johan Paul II had stated that the mission of the Vatican was to plant the Cross in Asia in the third millennium to facilitate the Christianizing of the world, which alone would cause the Second Coming of Jesus Christ. The Pope must tell us the rationale for the First Coming of Jesus Christ when there was no Christianity or the Church to undertake the mission to Christianize the world.

4. We see the USCIRF (US Commission on International Religious Freedom) as an intrusive mechanism of a foreign government to interfere in the internal affairs of this country. The USCIRF, which has been permitted to visit this country to hold meetings with our people to ascertain religious freedom in our country, must no longer be permitted to enter this country on this intrusive mission. We will not allow external interference into our internal affairs.

5. We know that very large amounts of money come into this country for Churches and Christian groups, ostensibly for charitable work. These funds should be used only for social causes like health, education etc and should not be used for religious conversion. During these dialogues, it should be agreed that the funds should be distributed to all Organisations who do charitable work, irrespective of the organisations’ religious faith. A common pool should be created and a Committee formed to distribute and monitor the usage of these funds.
6. It has become easy for the Missionaries to convert Hindus. All Hindu Organisations and Associations should work together to educate Hindus and eradicate the conversion activity.

7. Hindu dharma is by nature diverse and so all different panthas and sampradayas co-exist on this bhumi without seeking to destroy the others. Hindu dharma has nurtured and supported all faiths and religions because that is the way of dharma. We expect that religions which have come into this bhumi from other lands will respect this vital characteristic of Hindu dharma and not do anything to subvert or disturb the sense of nationhood of this country. Hindu dharma and the Hindu people welcome Christians and Muslims, Parsis and Jews to make this land their home. We expect from these religions that they will not seek to destroy our faith, our religion and wound our religious sensibilities. We encourage all religions to live with mutual respect and harmony in a shared sense of nationalism which should bind us all as one nation. Nationalism should come first.

8. We are aware of the propaganda that they [the church] will cure diseases and ailments if the individual converts to their faith. This is illegal as per the DRUGS AND MAGIC REMEDIES ACT 1954 and we call upon the Indian government to take action under the provision of law.
9. Most of the countries in the world (USA, UK, Japan, Middle-east nations, Pakistan, Sri Lanka etc.), adopt national resolutions and statements of intent proclaimed by their governments and their tallest religious bodies, affirming their determination to protect and defend the culture and the religion from which their cultures derive. In India alone we pass resolutions which officially and legally promote an irreligious and unspiritual creed called secularism. Secularism is an administrative quality; it cannot be the soul of this nation. The soul of this nation is religious and spiritual. We call upon our government and other important religious bodies to recognize this truth and affirm their commitment to protect the soul of this nation.

10. The Buddhist Mahasangha and the Joint Committee of Buddhist Organizations have declared their intention to get the Sri Lankan government to pilot and pass a national anti-conversion Bill and make it law. We welcome this move and strongly endorse this measure.

11. The Church in India must stop forthwith the use of Hindu religious words, phrases and symbols like Veda, Agama, Rishi, Ashrama, Om and other such in what is referred to as ‘inculturation’ tactics, but which are only intended to deceive the vulnerable sections of our people who are the intended targets for religious conversion. This is also insulting to and wounding the religious sensitivities of Hindus. Similarly it has been brought to our notice that some churches are scripting a new Bible for the new converts by usurping sections of our sacred Vedas, Upanishads and Puranas and incorporating them into the Bible. This must stop immediately and all such Bibles must be withdrawn from circulation. We urge the Indian government to look into the issue and do the needful.

[Bodhi]

referred above is the senior seer of kanchi

[Guest]

Dialog? Why are we even having a dialog? They are just looking at getting some room for breathing. Their goal is conversion, strategies and tactics vary. We shouldn't get into the trap.

[Husky]

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/8090009.stm
via http://haindavakeralam.com/HKPage.aspx?P...804&SKIN=B
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin--><b>Bigotry alive for Christian Dalits</b>
By Sunil Raman
BBC News, Eraiyur

[Photo caption] Main church, Lady of the Rosary Parish, Eraiyur, southern India
The village came up around the parish church, Lady of the Rosary Parish

<b>Centuries ago, as their forefathers faced social and economic deprivation, many low-caste Hindus embraced Christianity.</b>

But in one corner of southern India, their hopes for equality remain unfulfilled hundreds of years on. ]<b>Called "pariahs", hundreds of Dalit Christians continue to face discrimination - not from Hindus but fellow Christians.</b>

More than 200km (124 miles) from Chennai, the capital of the southern state of Tamil Nadu, is the village of Eraiyur.

Home to about 3,000 Dalit Christians, mostly farm labourers and migrant workers, the area witnessed violence last year when Dalits demanded equal treatment.

The village is dominated by Vanniyar Christians numbering 15,000, who own most of the land and businesses.

They imposed restrictions on Dalits even though they had also converted to Christianity.


<b>Restricted life</b>

A 17th Century church building, Lady of the Rosary Parish, stands tall above the Eraiyur settlement. The village came up around the parish church, with Vanniyar houses closest to it. The Dalits were forced to build their small huts on the fringe of the village.

<b>It did not take long for the divisions within the Hindu social system to be reflected among the new Christians.

The dominant Vanniyars created rules which restricted the movement of the Dalits.</b>

Text eyecatch: Peraiyamakar, farm labourer
We were told not to touch any upper caste person, not to get too close to them, not to talk to them
Mrs Peraiyamakar

<b>When they visited the parish church they were not allowed to walk on the main street leading to the building. Instead they had to use a side street that led to the church gate.</b>

When Dalits died they were not allowed to be buried in the cemetery. Their burial ground is beyond the village and can only be accessed through a broken path.

In addition, the funeral cart parked inside the church building can be used only by Vanniyars.

<b>"We were told not to touch any upper caste person, not to get too close to them, not to talk to them," says Mrs Peraiyamaka, 60, a farm labourer who has been visiting the parish church since childhood.

"It is no different now."</b>

Mr Thomas, a 60-year-old labourer says there is also a fear of violence as young Dalits refuse to be submitted to such humiliation.

He says this fear prompted the Dalits to build an alternative church.

A single-room, white-washed brick structure with an iron grill for the entrance is set in a small open ground.

Called Our Lady of Perpetual Help, the Dalit church has a coloured icon of Virgin Mary with Baby Jesus in her arms. She is flanked by plastic flowers and incense sticks burn on the sides.

<b>The Dalits' demands of recognition for their church were rejected by local Catholic priests on the ground that a village can have only one parish church.</b>


[Text eyecatch] There is no big change after we came to Christianity. We have very good Christian names, we read Bible and got to Church instead of temples.
Mr Mathew, Dalit activist

Mr Mathew is a Dalit activist who graduated from Madras University.

Having faced prejudice as a schoolboy, he has now decided to fight for the rights of Dalits.

His efforts to seek justice have created tension in his village, forcing him to move to elsewhere.

He is angry that although the constitution has banned "untouchability" it continues to be practised in different ways.

<b>"My family may get some minimum help or guidance from Christianity. That's all. There is no big change after we came to Christianity," says Mr Mathew.</b>


<b>Vanniyars disgruntled</b>

[photo caption] Dalit church: Dalits are demanding that their church be recognised

As we walked out of the Dalit quarters towards the well laid-out area where Vanniyar Christians live under the shadow of the whitewashed parish church, we were greeted by a few angry women.

They did not want us to take pictures and asked us to leave.

A few angry residents of Vanniyar quarters gathered around us. They agreed to answer our questions. Emily, 25, was eager to give their version of the story.

"We have allowed them to use the road. They are creating trouble," she says.

We asked her how in a free country one group could dictate to others on the use of a public road.

"I don't know. It's been like this… but we have now allowed them," Emily replied.

Similar responses came from other Vanniyars we spoke to.

Mr Arukadas, a retired government teacher lives next to the parish church and he shared his unhappiness with the Dalit Christians.

Asked about using a common funeral van and a graveyard where all Christians irrespective of their past Hindu caste identity can be buried, he retorted: "It will take a long time for a common graveyard." <!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->What's the use of remaining a christian? The one disadvantage they left Hindu society for is there and magnified in the ideology they have joined, whereas in Hindu society things have moved forward. All the change I can see is that they have turned their backs on their real Gods, their identity and traditions in exchange for a non-existent artifice for global aggression (jeebus).

They can always return home. Or at least become free.

[shamu]

^^^
Are they doing it to justify their demand for reservation for dalit christians?