Indian Missile News And Discussion

[Arun_S]

[quote name='gagan111' date='09 February 2010 - 12:54 AM' timestamp='1265656597' post='104006']

Sandeep Unnithan's article on the ATV said 3 MIRVs per K-XX.

There are 12 K-15s in the 4x3 rotary launchers, giving 12 warheads, and there will be 3 MIRVs per K-XX (A3SL) keeping the number of warheads the same.

[/quote]



I do not think there is x3 rotary launcher for K-15 missile. Technically it is very challenging versus its operational value

[Arun_S]

[quote name='Infinity' date='09 February 2010 - 01:16 AM' timestamp='1265657895' post='104008']

Hi Arun_S



Its nice to see you back in action!' Your contributions to BR wee sorely missed (though I am mere a unregsitered lurker over there). It would be really great if you could repost your old articles on "Indian Space and Missiles" on your own blog which are easy to refer to.



Thanks

Infinity

[/quote]



Welcome on India Forum.



I will host my Missile pages in few months when I get some breather.

[Arun_S]

[quote name='Chandragupta' date='05 February 2010 - 11:29 PM' timestamp='1265392263' post='103933']

It will definitely sing and will dance on the head of porkis and chinks too <img src='http://www.india-forum.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' />



I will put my money on Nirbhay given the importance in the dark and the capability it holds.I will bet such that,Nirbhay will be the only missile other than Tomahawk to be mass produced in comparative numbers.



Who knows? the per weapon cost will be no more than $200,000 and might even come down with huge scale production and make it a viable system to bring your adversary on his knees.



Nirbhay MKI is more than enough for pakiland while I will be looking forward for MKII with air launch capability.



Arun,can you put your assumptions and calculations of the most probable warhead combinations for a 500kg throw weight?

[/quote]



You mean for Nirbhay?

There is no publicly available physical parameters/description for the missile, so its not possible till then.



As for the 500 Kg throw weight, see my article hosted on IRF ([url="http://www.indiaresearch.org/WayToACredibleDeterrent.pdf"]WAY TO A CREDIBLE DETERRENT, © Arun Vishwakarma[/url]) that describes some of the viable warhead options with different degree of credibility, and fit that with your take on persuasive capability required by dictatorship of various shades ranging from Izlamist inspired TFTA (Tall, Fair, Tight Ar&sed Pakis) and frog eating red devils.

[Guest]

My using the word rotary was erroneous. I meant three launchers in one 2+ m dia tube. <img src='http://www.india-forum.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' />

[shijo]

hi arun sir i was also a lurker in BRF and seen all u r analysis on indian missiles but frustrated by the fact that i was unable to post on brf ......now i'm seeing most of BRF active members here ,

wht is ur thought about india making a long range cruise missile .....are we capable of making nirbhay with 1000km range..or is the system is already in place and they are covering it up as in the case of k-15 sagarika missiles...

and also sir why are they releasing any pictures of k15 missiles ......they released pictures of shourya missiles but not sagarika why..........

[Guest]

Arun_S,

Thanks for the Rockism stats.



Is it possible to enhance Rockism to have a graph like the ISRO launches have - latitude and ground trace, possibly superimposed on a map?



I know this is tough, but it will make it so user friendly (and friendly to non technical people like me too)

[laltaputu]

hello Arun sir

i am a newbie here and this is my first post but i have read all your missile pages on BR.I am very much excited to finally talk to you.i always want you to ask this question the agni3 missiles we have tested you have named it as AGNI3TD then you have AGNI3A with 3 MIRV-2A,AGNI3B with 12 MIRV-5,AGNI3C with 8 MIRV-5(thermonuclear) and AGNI3SL with 12 MIRV-5.

sir can you please tell is these AGNI3A,B and AGNI3C are in development stage

very pleased to hear from Chandragupta about NIRBHAY(1000KM+) and AGNI3SL(5000-6700KM).

[ramana]

This graphic from the old Businessline article shows that A3 is truely Asia specific. Indian press should quit talking about PRC only.



"Naming enemies, is making them" Adm Kholi















SOURCE

[ramana]

Old Report for third test in May 2008.



Agni-III test-fired successfully



http://www.hinduonnet.com/thehindu/holnu...071441.htm

Unlike Agni-I and Agni-II, the Agni-III missile has been designed and optimised to carry lighter 200 KT thermo nuclear pay-load weapons.

Something doesnt add up. If its lighter than why is the payload heavier (1.5 Tonnes for AIII vs 1 tonne AI & AII )? Unless the 1.5 tonnes is for future bus?





So the guidance is RLG based INS. They are distinguishing between this and strap-on guidance on earlier models.

[Arun_S]

[quote name='Gagan' date='09 February 2010 - 07:08 AM' timestamp='1265679034' post='104025']

Arun_S,

Thanks for the Rockism stats.



Is it possible to enhance Rockism to have a graph like the ISRO launches have - latitude and ground trace, possibly superimposed on a map?



I know this is tough, but it will make it so user friendly (and friendly to non technical people like me too)

[/quote]



Gagan ji,

Unfortunately that is not trivial and I am tied with other priorities. I think ROCKSIM and my articles have largely done it job, in positioning Indian deterrence an capability in right perspective and filled Indian solders and citizens with confidence and pride, at the same time put the fear of Gwod on the Indian detractors. (There was some reverse phy-op that I played in early days when deterrence was not fully up and running). I have handed over the baton of code development and ownership to an engineering collage in India, and devested myself from ROCKSIM.



Let other desh-bhakth (Matra bhoomi premi) carry on the flame.

[Arun_S]

[quote name='ramana' date='10 February 2010 - 01:29 AM' timestamp='1265745102' post='104048']

Old Report for third test in May 2008.



Agni-III test-fired successfully



[url="http://www.hinduonnet.com/thehindu/holnus/000200805071441.htm"]http://www.hinduonne...00805071441.htm[/url]







Something doesnt add up. If its lighter than why is the payload heavier (1.5 Tonnes for AIII vs 1 tonne AI & AII )? Unless the 1.5 tonnes is for future bus?





So the guidance is RLG based INS. They are distinguishing between this and strap-on guidance on earlier models.

[/quote]



Ramana: That sentence "[color="#800080"]Unlike Agni-I and Agni-II, the Agni-III missile has been designed and optimised to carry lighter 200 KT thermo nuclear pay-load weapons.[/color]" is unique and lifted from my Agni articles. That Hindu article was written in May 2008, and they all used my Agni web page as source (Including concept drawings) and capability path for Indian strategic program, when my reverse psy-op was taken at face value (with bait, hook and sinker). What I did not know then was the deception by BARC in covering up massive failure of TN device at Pok-II. What was to scare and also confuse Indian detractors was taken as article of faith by DDM and it was a convenient story line by GoI press/psy-ops departments to support, because at that time the option of TN testing to fix TN design was open. A case of home audience taken in by magic spell that was cast for foriegn audience that Richard Spear kind of NPA Ayothullahs sought.

[ramana]

OK.



It might be a good idea to collect data about the last three A-III tests.



Eg. range and apogee/altitude tested.



Ignore the first test as its an outlier.

Code:

test  date           range  altitude  Time         Ref:



2    13 April 2007            400km      13 Min       Business Line article *

3     7 May 2008             400km      800sec       Hindu **

4     7 Feb 2010      ?       350 Km    800sec       Hindu #

* SOURCE



** SOURCE2



#SOURCE3



The crossing Equator was for second test. Looks like the last two tests are a repeat.

[Arun_S]

[quote name='samsam' date='09 February 2010 - 07:00 AM' timestamp='1265678536' post='104024']

hi arun sir i was also a lurker in BRF and seen all u r analysis on indian missiles but frustrated by the fact that i was unable to post on brf ......now i'm seeing most of BRF active members here ,

wht is ur thought about india making a long range cruise missile .....are we capable of making nirbhay with 1000km range..or is the system is already in place and they are covering it up as in the case of k-15 sagarika missiles...[/quote]

Welcome to India Forum.



Of course, long range Nirbhay CM is a reality, not a question mark.

and also sir why are they releasing any pictures of k15 missiles ......they released pictures of shourya missiles but not sagarika why..........

Don't know. I cant answer for actions of PRO at Raksha Mantralaya.



OTOH Shourya and Sagarika are essentially the same missile (with little difference in external appearance). Please refer to my [url="http://www.indiaresearch.org/Shourya_Missile.pdf"]Shourya/Sagarika Missile article[/url] for India Defense Review hosted on IRF.



[url="http://www.indiaresearch.org/articles.html"]http://www.indiaresearch.org/articles.html[/url]

[ramana]

Nightwatch says:

Nightwatch 2/8/10

India: IANS reported that yesterday (7 February), India executed its fourth test launch of Indian-built Agni-III ballistic missile. The Agni-III has a range of more than 3,000 kms, which qualifies it as an intermediate-range ballistic missile (IRBM).It can carry conventional explosives or a nuclear warhead of up to 1.5 tons.







The press announcement said this was a full range test into the Indian Ocean. The missile’s range covers almost all of China, all of Southeast Asia down to Java, all of Central Asia and all of the Middle East to the Nile River in Sudan.







This missile is a strategic weapon that has no military role in any fight with Pakistan except to threaten China, Pakistan’s principal arms supplier.

[Arun_S]

[quote name='laltaputu' date='09 February 2010 - 09:19 PM' timestamp='1265730082' post='104041']

hello Arun sir

i am a newbie here and this is my first post but i have read all your missile pages on BR. I am very much excited to finally talk to you. i always want you to ask this question the agni3 missiles we have tested you have named it as AGNI3TD then you have AGNI3A with 3 MIRV-2A, AGNI3B with 12 MIRV-5, AGNI3C with 8 MIRV-5(thermonuclear) and AGNI3SL with 12 MIRV-5.

sir can you please tell is these AGNI3A, B and AGNI3C are in development stage[/quote]



As Shri Sathish Chandra mentioned long ago, Agni-3 is a very flexible rocket platform that give rise a family of missiles; with varied payload combination and rocket stages that can mixed and matched for various performance configurations. Agni-3TD has validated the base elements of rocketery on which these varients can easily morph.

very pleased to hear from Chandragupta about NIRBHAY(1000KM+) and AGNI3SL(5000-6700KM).

Indeed.

[emperor]

[quote name='samsam' date='08 February 2010 - 08:30 PM' timestamp='1265678536' post='104024']

hi arun sir i was also a lurker in BRF and seen all u r analysis on indian missiles but frustrated by the fact that i was unable to post on brf ......now i'm seeing most of BRF active members here ,

wht is ur thought about india making a long range cruise missile .....are we capable of making nirbhay with 1000km range..or is the system is already in place and they are covering it up as in the case of k-15 sagarika missiles...

and also sir why are they releasing any pictures of k15 missiles ......they released pictures of shourya missiles but not sagarika why..........

[/quote]

Snippet:

Testing of a strategic cruise missile dont necessarily have to appear in public domain.MOD thinks, the CM has to act as an element of surprise.



IF it does appear in toilet papers and tissue papers throwed out by DDM`s, take it as a one with high margins of CEP on specifications.

[Arun_S]

Some one told me the good old surgeon turned nuclear scientist on the venerable forum has lost his nuclear physics calculus skills (unless this is his real intelligence and someone was couching him on the nuclear weapons design and right Bum options for India. Like stitching back hymen of girl in his family who has lost virginity before marriage (this is his own words, he put on the venerable forum)

Shouldn't a missile fired eastwards have a greater range than one fired westwards due to the earth's rotation?



Recalling info for 4 decades ago - the earth rotates at 1600 kmph - and that would mean 260 Km extra flight (about 8 % extra free) towards the east for a 10 minute flight no?

Surgeon Dr. Shiv a.k.a (new nuclear scientist) forgot to to use his brain to figure out that in the said 10 minutes the target land also travellign at 1600 kmph and moved further away 260 km !! If only Daktarr saab will recall his childhood story of carrot in front of the donkey moves forward, as the donkey walks forward to eat it. Donkey brain onleeee, good for piskology.<img src='http://www.india-forum.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' />

[Guest]

My using the word rotary was erroneous. I meant three launchers in one 2+ m dia tube.







India is slated to start MIRV operation come 2015 as per the news. And as for as we know, so far there is no news of SCDM or post boost vhicle or bus as it is known in missile parlance, from DRDO quarters - a complex, exoatmospheric maneuverable object that is used to position and deploy the re-entry vehicle. The PBV contains guidance, control and thruster hardware. It is a top section of the missile under the shroud, which (shroud) is ejected into the atmosphere after the first stage is gone...........

[Arun_S]

[quote name='Chandragupta' date='10 February 2010 - 05:17 AM' timestamp='1265758750' post='104061']

IF it does appear in toilet papers and tissue papers throwed out by DDM`s, take it as a one with high margins of CEP on specifications.

[/quote]

ToI let <img src='http://www.india-forum.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' />

[Guest]

Recalling info for 4 decades ago - the earth rotates at 1600 kmph - and that would mean 260 Km extra flight (about 8 % extra free) towards the east for a 10 minute flight no?





It all depends, hence there are new softwares like six degree freedom, which are programmed into a modern ICBM n MIRVs to compensate 4 the effects of earth rotation, great circle, coriolis effect, Centripetal force, azimuth, state vector, Newton´s first law, (which have 2 be taken into account) so that the warhead is not even slightly displaced from its impact point, as the re-entry vehcle has to travel upward (exoatmosphere) after a lift off (apx 400KM) while oblate spheroid earth is still rotating one way on its axis at the speed of 29.8 KM a second.



By the time my post is read lets say half a minute - The earth has already moved abt 900 KM.......



The result of the Coriolis Effect is:



Projectiles are deflected towards the right at northern latitudes.

Projectiles are deflected towards the left at southern latitudes.

Modern long-range missile guidance systems are designed to CORRECT for the Coriolis Effect.



Also affects low-pressure systems & storms:



Hurricanes in the Northern Hemisphere rotate anti-Clockwise

Tropical Cyclones in the Southern Hemisphere rotate Clockwise



Let me quote David Wright, a scientist:



While the earth’s rotational velocity does affect the velocity requirements for a satellite n exo-launch vehicles, it does not contribute significantly to the range of short-range missiles. This is because the contribution of the earth’s rotational velocity to the range of the missile is nullified to a large extent because both the launch and the impact points of the missile rotate with the earth during the duration of the missile’s flight.



No free lunch here!