Indian Navy news and discussion

[Arun_S]

[url=""][url="http://www.hindustantimes.com/Fire-mishap-on-INS-Sindhurakshak-due-to-explosion-in-battery-Navy/H1-Article1-513475.aspx"]Fire mishap on INS Sindhurakshak due to explosion in battery: Navy[/url][/url]

Press Trust Of India New Delhi, February 27, 2010 The fire mishap on INS Sindhurakshak in Visakhapatnam that left a sailor dead and two others injured was caused by an explosion in its battery compartment, Navy officials said in New Delhi on Saturday.



Sindhurakshak, a Russian-origin Kilo class submarine, was in the Visakhapatnam harbour for a routine maintenance when the mishap occurred on Friday evening.



"It was due to a defective battery and Leading Electrical Technician Kump Dand was killed," the official said.



India had bought the 2300-tonne submarine from Russia as part of an early 1980s deal and commissioned it in 1997. It is the ninth of the 10 Sindhugosh class diesel-electric powered vessel that the Navy has in its 16-vessel submarine fleet.



Sindhurakshak is scheduled for a major mid-life refit later this year as part of a programme for this class of vessels which began in 1997 with Sindhuvir.



In January 2008, another vessel from this class, INS Sindhugosh, collided with a merchant vessel off Mumbai while participating in a naval exercise.



The boat collided with the cargo ship as it was surfacing in a silent mode with its radio and radar switched off.



The damage caused to the submarine during the mishap resulted in it being off service for about a month.

[Arun_S]

‘[url="http://www.deccanherald.com/content/54473/first-nuke-sub-undergoes-trial.html"]INS Arihant’ induction likely next year[/url]

First nuke-sub undergoes trial



India’s first nuclear submarine, ‘INS Arihant’, has gone to the high-seas for an extended trial, indicating that the boomer is on course to be inducted by the Navy by 2011.



New Delhi, Feb 23, DHNS:



One of India’s top secret defence projects for over three decades, ‘INS Arihant’ with a 80 Mwe nuclear reactor at its core, was launched in the water in last July. The sea trial, which began a few months ago, will be carried out for more than a year in different conditions to test the endurance and performance of the nuclear submarine, which is capable of staying under water for months, sources told Deccan Herald.



Once inducted, ‘INS Arihant’ will be the third leg of the nuclear triad enabling India to have retaliatory second strike capability from the sea. At the defence research and development organisation’s annual awards function attended by Defence Minister A K Antony, DRDO chief V K Saraswat mentioned ‘INS Arihant’ as a significant technology achievement.

For obvious reasons Saraswat did not mention anything about the two other nuclear submarines, which DRDO is constructing at the moment.

The hull of the second boomer is under construction at an L&T facility in Gujarat. The Visakhapatnam shipyard was recently brought under the defence ministry to secretly carry out the construction activities.



Saraswat listed out developing Agni-5 with a range of 5,000 km, unmanned combat aerial vehicle, indigenous airborne early warning and control system and automatic under-ground and under-water vehicles as some of the key future challenges. Antony asked the DRDO to reduce long gestation period and cut down on time and cost overrun. “It is high time that DRDO shed its reticence in working in tandem with the private industry. We need the maximum possible synergy between various production agencies,” he added.

[Guest]

[size="6"]Antony to discuss anti-piracy operations during Japan visit[/size]







New Delhi, Nov 6 (IANS) Anti-piracy operations in the Gulf of Aden and a review of defence ties will be among the topics on the anvil when Indian Defence Minister A.K. Antony meets his Japanese counterpart during his three-day Japan visit beginning Saturday.





'Antony would be meeting his Japanese counterpart Toshimi Kitazawa to review ongoing defence related interactions between both the countries and to explore ways to enhance mutual benefit,' a defence ministry spokesperson said here Friday.





'The conduct of joint exercises between the armed forces of both the countries and exchange of students in the defence training institutions of both the countries would also be discussed with the Japanese side.





'In addition, possibilities of coordination of efforts in anti-piracy operations in the Gulf of Aden and other maritime security challenges are also likely to be discussed,' the official added.





This the first visit of an Indian minister since the new government in Japan headed by Yukio Hatoyama took over in September this year.





Antony will be accompanied by defence secretary Pradeep Kumar, his scientific adviser V.K. Saraswat and senior armed forces officials. He returns Nov 10.

[Guest]

Dr VK Saraswat on a visit to Japan?



What possible implications can be drawn? Most interesting.

[Guest]

[size="6"]US offers India the Aegis Combat System, the world’s most advanced shipboard weapons system[/size]







What cutting edge technologies will Lockheed Martin bring to India as part of its offsets requirement?



Roger Rose: We are in touch with the Indian MoD regarding the Indian Navy’s consideration of the world’s most advanced shipboard Weapons System, the Aegis Combat System (ACS). The US Navy has briefed the Indian Navy on the capabilities of the world's premier area air defense combat system; other Asia Pacific navies operating Aegis systems are Japan, South Korea and Australia. Lockheed Martin and Hyundai Heavy Industries also included the Aegis CMS concept when answering the Project 17A RFI.







ACS is composed of the following:

Aegis Weapon System (AWS), the fast-reaction component of the Aegis Anti-Aircraft Warfare (AAW) capability, along with the Phalanx Close In Weapon System (CIWS), the MK 41 VLS, Anti-Submarine Warfare (ASW) systems, and Tomahawk Land Attack Cruise Missiles (TLAM). Shipboard torpedo and naval gunnery systems are also integrated.

What are the chances of India getting TLAM (1700 KM range MTCR violation thingy) and if not what good is this scaled down version of AEGIS costing billions ?

[Arun_S]

Aegis with its AESA radar is a trojen, unless India gets the full source code. Let US provide the source code and only then India can consider it a viable sales offer.



I can see the US cringe at it, like sharing JSF F-35 source code <img src='http://www.india-forum.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' /> Will not happen.

[Guest]

[quote name='Arun_S' date='01 March 2010 - 10:42 PM' timestamp='1267463077' post='104683']

Aegis with its AESA radar is a trojen, unless India gets the full source code. Let US provide the source code and only then India can consider it a viable sales offer.



I can see the US cringe at it, like sharing JSF F-35 source code <img src='http://www.india-forum.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' /> Will not happen.

[/quote]



Its unwise to ask for such things, knowing that LM has spent their billions to develope this ACS and wont part away with that, Spain and Norway use Aegis but they dont have source code. Remember the olden days of coca cola formula row (George Fernandez) and coke was thrown out of India and it (Coke) did not care?



As for trojan horse, you can still find C-130 and P-8I bugged (if they want it to, they can do it), they did the same to Chinese VVIP aircraft too in the past.



The country like USA enforces their EUM (End Use Monitoring provisions required under American law) which among other things include the USA’s Communications and Information Security Memorandum of Agreement that governs how, when, and by whom sensitive information can be shared with India, and even within India, IMO these are very intrusive too. When you deal with USA, this is what you get.

One of the first court cases regarding the nature of source code as free speech involved University of California mathematics professor Dan Bernstein, who had published on the internet the source code for an encryption program that he created. At the time, encryption algorithms were classified as munitions by the United States government; exporting encryption to other countries was considered an issue of national security, and had to be approved by the State Department. The Electronic Frontier Foundation sued the U.S. government on Bernstein's behalf; the court ruled that source code was free speech, protected by the First Amendment.

[Arun_S]

[quote name='ankit-s' date='02 March 2010 - 04:16 PM' timestamp='1267526311' post='104709']

Its unwise to ask for such things, knowing that LM has spent their billions to develope this ACS and wont part away with that, Spain and Norway use Aegis but they dont have source code. Remember the olden days of coca cola formula row (George Fernandez) and coke was thrown out of India and it (Coke) did not care?



As for trojan horse, you can still find C-130 and P-8I bugged (if they want it to, they can do it), they did the same to Chinese VVIP aircraft too in the past.[/quote]



The mischief from AESA radar equipped beast in a thousand times more dangeresous compared to trojan C-130.



US manageed to spoof Indian ship communication channel during Op Parakram, such that during the peak of Indian Military manuvere the ships that were on strict radio silance and guarding assigned flanks on western Arabian seas un-expectedly sailed home and only when they reached Mumbai, IN discovered they were spoofed with a messages that teh IN Command never sent. That was when IN rarely used a US equipment (that too on peripheral systems), what to speak of Command & Control nodes or sensor nodes, or AESA that dowes both.



As for Spain and Norway flying sporting Aegis without problem, one should consider:

1. how many time their strategic interest forked from US?
2. what are their Global roles (nay regional roles) ?
3. and if they every had to fight US or its funded porxies?
4. or haw many time have they gone on war on its borders in the last 65 years?

Answering that will give give a different prespetive.

[Guest]

[quote name='Arun_S' date='02 March 2010 - 10:35 PM' timestamp='1267549020' post='104713']

US manageed to spoof Indian ship communication channel during Op Parakram, such that during the peak of Indian Military manuvere the ships that were on strict radio silance and guarding assigned flanks on western Arabian seas un-expectedly sailed home and only when they reached Mumbai, IN discovered they were spoofed with a messages that teh IN Command never sent. That was when IN rarely used a US equipment (that too on peripheral systems), what to speak of Command & Control nodes or sensor nodes, or AESA that dowes both.

[/quote]



Interesting , never knew such thing happened , I am under the impression that any messages received by IN ships are well encrypted ( code keeps changing ) and is authenticated by 2 way cipher system.



I mean if they can do that , they could have also sent message like attack some PN ships and created a war

[manish]

Arun a question, what is the technical prowess of Indian armed forces now vis-a-vis detecting and eliminating such Trojans from C-17 and P8I since lessons must have been learned from Op Parakaram. any ideas?

[manish]

self delete

[Guest]

US manageed to spoof Indian ship communication channel during Op Parakram, such that during the peak of Indian Military manuvere the ships that were on strict radio silance and guarding assigned flanks on western Arabian seas un-expectedly sailed home and only when they reached Mumbai, IN discovered they were spoofed with a messages that teh IN Command never sent. That was when IN rarely used a US equipment (that too on peripheral systems), what to speak of Command & Control nodes or sensor nodes, or AESA that dowes both.

The bottom of the barrel is that they CAN do it, bugging a vessel or aircraft is easy.

As for Spain and Norway flying sporting Aegis without problem, one should consider:

1. how many time their strategic interest forked from US?
2. what are their Global roles (nay regional roles) ?
3. and if they every had to fight US or its funded porxies?
4. or haw many time have they gone on war on its borders in the last 65 years?

Answering that will give give a different prespetive.

I know that, they are NATO nations and work under Yankee umbrella, there is no conflict of interest within them (white nations). Choice is ours, buy it or deny it - Source code? forget about it, it would be a non starter.



US has a agenda to outspend India as they did to Soviet Union which got disintegrated, India is already in a debt trap, 240 Billion minus. Big ticket defense items, coupled with nuke reactors and what not - we have to balance our books for our future sake.

[Guest]

[quote name='manish' date='02 March 2010 - 11:04 PM' timestamp='1267550778' post='104720']

Arun a question, what is the technical prowess of Indian armed forces now vis-a-vis detecting and eliminating such Trojans from C-17 and P8I since lessons must have been learned from Op Parakaram. any ideas?

[/quote]







First there was crime, then came the police, this cat and mouse game is never ending one - you have new tech and patents registered everyday, countermeasures, counter countermeasures. There were Jammers, now we have anti Jammers.



This will go on my friend.....

[Guest]

[size="6"]Gujarat builds 1st survey catamarans for Indian navy[/size]







Ahmedabad: Gujarat’s shipbuilding company, Alcock Ashdown, has broken into a new league. The Gujarat government-owned PSU has built the ‘hull form’ of two catamarans for the Indian Navy, the first catamarans for hydrographic survey to be inducted by the navy.





The first ship christened, INS Makar, was launched in early February and the second, INS Meen, was launched early on Tuesday morning at the shipyard in Bhavnagar.



With this advanced hydrographic suite, the Indian Navy will become one of the few navies in the world to have this kind of survey capability, and Alcock Ashdown has emerged as a leader in integrating complex systems. The vessels will be stationed in Vishakhapatnam. They are part of a fleet of six vessels being built by the shipyard for the Indian Navy at a total cost of Rs 800 crore.



Managing director of Gujarat Mineral Development Corporation and the shipyard, VS Gadhvi, told DNA that this is a significant achievement. He explained that this crucial assignment was not awarded to AAGL by the Indian Navy because it’s a government company, but through a competitive bidding process in which private players had also participated.



Executive director, naval projects, Subir Sengupta, says the primary role of the vessels will be to conduct coastal hydrographic survey of major and minor ports and harbours, their approaches and limited oceanographic survey.

[Guest]

[size="6"]Navy to build NBC simulator training facility soon[/size]





New Delhi, Mar 2 (PTI) The Navy is setting up a Nuclear, Biological and Chemical (NBC) defence training facility to develop the skills of its personnel in fighting such deadly attacks during conventional war or by terror groups.



The Navy has issued a Request for Information (RFI) ahead of issuing a global tender for setting up of the shore-based facility with simulators modelled on ships for creating near-real scenarios for training the personnel.



"The Indian Navy intends to set up a Nuclear (Radiological), Biological and Chemical Defence training facility to train its personnel. The facility is intended to be shore based," the RFI documents said.



The simulator would be built on a steel structure resembling a ship, outfitted with systems and equipment for training personnel in achieving collective NBC protection through 'closing down', pre-wetting systems and platform decontamination.

[Arun_S]

[quote name='manish' date='02 March 2010 - 11:04 PM' timestamp='1267550778' post='104720']

Arun a question, what is the technical prowess of Indian armed forces now vis-a-vis detecting and eliminating such Trojans from C-17 and P8I since lessons must have been learned from Op Parakaram. any ideas?

[/quote]



Pathetic technical prowess that is of no consequence. Thanks for organizational structure problems, not to mention no center to focus on leading edge skill development.



Encryption etc : absolutely pathetic.



IOW a sitting duck.

[ravicv]

[quote name='Arun_S' date='03 March 2010 - 08:45 AM' timestamp='1267634234' post='104777']

Pathetic technical prowess that is of no consequence. Thanks for organizational structure problems, not to mention no center to focus on leading edge skill development.



Encryption etc : absolutely pathetic.



IOW a sitting duck.

[/quote]





Well said Arun_S! To add insult to injury, one operative in this regard (field of activity) has recently returned to India and instantly became an expert on nuclear strategy, writing articles with another "rent boy" on the wonders and benefits of an arsenal based on 20 KT pure fisssion weapons. <img src='http://www.india-forum.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/angry.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':angry:' /> Frankly, I wonder whether anybody who matters in the Indian defense establishment knows the basics and practical application of subjects like Side Channel Analysis, etc.... I was shocked to find out that the PMO used gmail to send email messages. For God's sake, how stupid and incompitent can these people get....................?

[Guest]

[size="6"]BAE Systems to provide mission computer systems for Indian Navy P-8I patrol aircraft[/size]











BAE Systems is developing the mission computer system suite for the P-8I aircraft for the Indian Navy. The aircraft is a variant of the U.S. Navy’s P-8A Poseidon.





Developed by a Boeing-led team, the P-8I is a multi-mission maritime patrol aircraft with a broader range of capabilities to operate over land or water while performing anti-submarine warfare; search and rescue; and long-range intelligence, surveillance, target acquisition, and reconnaissance.



“Maritime surveillance and patrol is becoming more and more important to effective defense,” said Donna Linke-Klein, director of mission computers and antenna solutions for BAE Systems. “The P-8I mission computer system provides superior interoperability for the future battle space”.



BAE Systems’ mission computer system suite for the P-8I is a flexible and ruggedized processing platform that can be configured to meet the general purpose, input and output, video, voice, and graphics processing needs for modern military battle management requirements.



The P-8A Poseidon is a long-range; anti-submarine warfare; anti-surface warfare; intelligence, surveillance, and reconnaissance aircraft. The Indian government selected Boeing to provide eight P-8I aircraft to fill its maritime patrol needs, replacing Tupolev Tu-142M aircraft.



BAE Systems will begin deliveries to Boeing in 2011.





http://www.defenseworld.net/go/defensenews.jsp?id=4224

[Guest]

I was shocked to find out that the PMO used gmail to send email messages. For God's sake, how stupid and incompitent can these people get.

PMO is a product of nepotism, a mama banja type illiterates n crooks crammed up within where a recruitment process is a joke. South Block is where you find many chamchas under one roof.....

[ravicv]

[quote name='ankit-s' date='04 March 2010 - 09:17 AM' timestamp='1267722581' post='104818']

PMO is a product of nepotism, a mama banja type illiterates n crooks crammed up within where a recruitment process is a joke. South Block is where you find many chamchas under one roof.....

[/quote]



Nepotism, illiterates, crooks,... Come now, you should do better. How about incompitent, corrupt, Quislings? Is that too harsh, or merely a polite and accurate description? I won't comment any further, but you're smart enough to figure it out. Lets's say that the PMO (including the PM) are full of hard working, honest, and patriotic individuals devoted to India's security and welfare! <img src='http://www.india-forum.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' /> How's that for an accurate description? <img src='http://www.india-forum.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' />