Speaking as a man, I feel that we have failed miserably in upholding our Indian dress style - for far too long we have let the women carry on our great Indian style dresses, while we men have switched to wearing pants and shirt and a suit for office. When i see images of pakistan where almost all the men are wearing kurta-pyjama i get a bit jealous, at least they are proud to wear their ethnic dress. We should also learn from them and our women and start wearing kurta-pyjama or Kurta-dhoti.
[quote name='Ramaraksha' date='12 November 2009 - 10:21 PM' timestamp='1258044237' post='102500']
Speaking as a man, I feel that we have failed miserably in upholding our Indian dress style - for far too long we have let the women carry on our great Indian style dresses, while we men have switched to wearing pants and shirt and a suit for office. When i see images of pakistan where almost all the men are wearing kurta-pyjama i get a bit jealous, at least they are proud to wear their ethnic dress. We should also learn from them and our women and start wearing kurta-pyjama or Kurta-dhoti.
[/quote]
There is an world wide trend thwart pants .
Women replace skirt whit pants ,the saree whit the next available pants ,the shalvars(-kameez) .
I fell sorry that people replace some elegant,nicely decorated and comfortable traditional dress whit crappy hip-hop t-shirts from Harlem.
To name this dress traditional,so obsolete,is a misnomer as they are more advance in conception and elegance comparative whit most of the so called modern dress.
<img src='http://www.india-forum.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/rolleyes.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='  ' /> btw; I am told that Sari was introduced to India by some Greek woman. I am not sure whether this has been pointed out earlier or not.
Of course, it has to be pre-MahaBharata as Draupdi also used to wear sari.
To be comfortable in your second skin
Author: Jerry Pinto
Publication: Moneycontrol.com
Date: June 14, 2006
URL:
http://news.moneycontrol.com/india/news/...cle/219664
I wonder why all of us men of the East have no confidence in our own traditions as far as dress codes go. Japanese men won't wear kimonos to work and Indian men won't wear kurtas. As soon as a young man earns his MBA, he retires all his Indian clothes and gets himself a wardrobe of suits. Never mind that the suit is completely unsuitable for tropical climates.
But then it seems to start young, with men. First, they climb into jeans, which don't suit our climate either. They are so hot in summer that when you take them off, you actually feel the trapped heat escape. In the rains, they get wet and take ages to dry which means you walk into an office - which has been air-conditioned to keep the men in suits cool - and you stay wet and cold all day. In the winter, they're fine but how many cities in India have a winter?
And yet we don't think of anything except triple spun cotton as denim. We want to be hot and uncomfortable. We choose it. What is this about? Masochism? Or simply a lack of confidence?
The argument is that men in Indian clothes do not look businesslike. I don't understand this argument and I don't buy it. If a woman in a salwar-kameez looks businesslike, then a man in a kurta should look businesslike. If a woman in a sari looks like she is ready to take on the world, a man in a sherwani should look like he is ready to schmooze with foreign clients. This is one of those few instances, in which the world works better for women and where being a male works against men. (The other instance I can think of is being a male model!)
I am not arguing this from some swadeshi stance, although I do think India produces some pretty nice things and we should use them. I am not arguing this from some strange 'Indianness' position, because I would not be able to define it or even describe it. I am arguing this from the position of comfort, of ergonomics.
A kurta would keep you cool in the sun; it would keep you warm in the office. Pyjamas of some natural fabric would let you breathe, and they would dry fast if you got them wet in some thundershower. And the cut of the outfit is far more flattering to Indian men than western clothes. Put a pot-bellied old plutocrat into a well-cut kurta and a multitude of sins of commission (too many buffets, too much chaakna, too many expense account martinis) and sins of omission (days skipped at the gym, the golf course or wherever), will be flatteringly hidden.
Now, all we need is for someone with a great deal of self-confidence to go and do it. The rest wouldn't follow. The rich and powerful are status quo-ist at best and at worst, afraid of change. But it would be a beginning.
And we would all be a lot more comfortable.
Jerry Pinto
http://www.hvk.org/articles/0706/76.html
[quote name='capt m kumar' date='07 December 2009 - 05:41 AM' timestamp='1260144181' post='102809']
<img src='http://www.india-forum.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/rolleyes.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=' ' /> btw; I am told that Sari was introduced to India by some Greek woman. I am not sure whether this has been pointed out earlier or not.
Of course, it has to be pre-MahaBharata as Draupdi also used to wear sari.
[/quote]
saree like costume were weared by greeks and babilonians.The pants came from celts,persians and chinese.
Sari is very old & I believe references go as far back as the Vedas.
The Greeks & Romans may have worn something similar that they developed independently.
03-17-2010, 07:08 PM
(This post was last modified: 03-17-2010, 08:36 PM by Husky.)
[quote name='capt m kumar' date='07 December 2009 - 05:41 AM' timestamp='1260144181' post='102809']
<img src='http://www.india-forum.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/rolleyes.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=' ' /> btw; I am told that Sari was introduced to India by some Greek woman. I am not sure whether this has been pointed out earlier or not.
Of course, it has to be pre-MahaBharata as Draupdi also used to wear sari.
[/quote]You've "been told"? And you just accepted it without question?
"Some Greek woman".
Who. When. Documentation.
I think there's mention of saree style clothing in Vedas. And I thought shaatika was the name for the sari in Samskritam and that the word sari derived from that.
Yes. Well, sort of:
http://nopr.niscair.res.in/bitstream/123...97-203.pdf
Quote:Indian Journal of Traditional Knowledge. Vol. 7(1), January, 2008, pp.197-203.
Protection and revival of traditional hand embroidery, Kasuti by automation
Shailaja D Naik & Jyoti V Vastrad
Department of Textiles and Apparel Designing, College of Rural Home Science,
University of Agricultural Sciences, Dharwad 580005, Karnataka
Received 31 July 2007. Revised 8 October 2007.
[color="#800080"](Excerpt from p.1 of the PDF [/color]
The art of weaving is inherited right from the start of civilizations. However, it is difficult to say as to when the feminine made-up the sari came into existence, since the existence of sari is seen in some ancient sculptures of the Sumerian tradition [color="#800080"][again, they merely mean something that *looks* like the sari][/color].
Hiranyadrapi, in Rigveda is an example of the sari, a fine cloth with border as pattas. In Mahabharat, minicheri is nothing but a woven sari interwoven with pearls and gliterring borders. In Ajanta there are various specimens of saris woven with different techniques. The chief characteristic of colour in sari is to produce rhythmic contrasts, which have been displayed in the murals of Ajanta2. The word sari is believed to be derived from sat' [color="#800080"](OCR error? "sati?")[/color] or shati, a Sanskrit word which means 'a sley of cloth' or 'pattas of cloth'. From shatika word satee was formed and later it came to be known as sadi in Marathi and sadee in Oriya, Bengali, Bihari and Hindi.
[...]
Romani wrote:
Quote: saree like costume were weared by greeks and babilonians.
Oh what a miracle that somewhere else in the world people invented a single piece of straight and straightforward cloth that they wrapped around themselves and that was long enough to cover all of them (long enough to wrap and stay put properly). And they slung it over their shoulders! It must all imply the same single origin!
Like the Abyssinians and Ethiopians until at least the 19th century used to wear a white cloth in veshti style and slung another white cloth over their shoulders very like Brahmanas. Another miracle! It must have been borrowing.
All this is like the case of the Swastika: a very simple shape that - because of its simplicity and circumstance (some circular implication or solar motif etc) - many peoples came up with, including NA Native Americans. Doesn't make the similarly-shaped symbol in Jewish Synagogues or used among Northern Europeans and NA Native Americans into a *Swastika*, because the Swastika is Hindu.
Likewise, a single long piece of draping cloth is a very straightforward invention in pre-mass-production times (pre-sowing-machine) where the climate allowed for it. Doesn't make the Sumerian or Babylonian or Greek dress a Sari, because the Sari is Hindu. Nor does the matter indicate a single origin. (Similarly, the Abyssinian, Ethiopian male dress doesn't imply the same origin as the white Veshti+slung over cloth worn by Brahmanas.)
And why this constant assumption that Greeks and Babylonians predate Hindus? If they did anything it's always declared older amongst them.
Quote:The pants came from celts,persians and chinese.
Chinese definitely.
Persians? You mean the origin of the later "harem" pants of islamic courts in Iran? Could very well be of Persian origin, it was certainly not an Arabic innovation (full dress worn by Arabian men and women, hair and face coverage by men and women against sandstorms). Seems too sudden for Arabian full dress to turn into mid-rif bearing top + puff pants in Iranian territory. Like other pre-islamic (Persian) dress gear which the islamised retained for a while when in Iranian territory, harem-style clothing (including pants) could well be too.
Don't know about pants among Celts. The Scotsmen certainly wore skirts. During festivals, their women also wear tartan-ed dress gear to this day. No pants that I have seen. Druids are always depicted in a full dress - how accurate that is to history, I don't know. By the time Celts occupied Anatolia as Galatia, there was already contact with China for them (IIRC as per claims in a doco I watched), so hard to tell whether any pants that might have been used in SE/E-European regions at that time would have been a local innovation (I have not heard of them using pants, the opening is merely to allow the supposition).
[quote name='Husky' date='17 March 2010 - 07:16 PM' timestamp='1268833093' post='105245']
You've "been told"? And you just accepted it without question?
e always depicted in a full dress - how accurate that is to history, I don't know. By the time Celts occupied Anatolia as Galatia, there was already contact with China for them (IIRC as per claims in a doco I watched), so hard to tell whether any pants that might have been used in SE/E-European regions at that time would have been a local innovation (I have not heard of them using pants, the opening is merely to allow the supposition).
[/quote]
From reconstructions that i've seen , sumerian(babilonian)garments were very similar whit the saree including the ornaments(like all over dots)
and colors.
The celts ,germans thracians,dacians,sakas and their priests were depicted by greek-romans sculptors as wearing pants.Even the roman name for pants -braca ,is of celtic origin.Im talking of continental celts not those from isolated islands.
Celtic gods are also depicted whit pants so i doubt that druids wear white robes .Mithra ,dacian and saka priests also wear pants not robes.
Before bronze age ,europeans wear a kind of long socks(similar whit pants) but whiteout the upper part.
And we know that for long time ,it was forbidden for womens (except China maybe) to wear pants.
For this reason,the pants become a symbol of women emancipation.
College authorities admit that security guards are authorised to monitor the dress code. "Students are sent back if they (security guards) find it inappropriate. We insist on a dress code. We are preparing students for a professional life. It's natural for them to wear clothes like churidar with dupatta and jeans with long kurta. Students need to respect the institution and behave with dignity," a college official said. The students, he said, learn about the dress code at the time of admission and they accept it. http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/...704375.cms
03-22-2010, 07:09 PM
(This post was last modified: 03-22-2010, 07:12 PM by Husky.)
[quote name='HareKrishna' date='18 March 2010 - 08:51 AM' timestamp='1268882038' post='105258']
From reconstructions that i've seen , sumerian(babilonian)garments were very similar whit the saree including the ornaments(like all over dots)
and colors.[/quote]I see Bharatavarsha beat me to it last time, when he wrote:
Quote:Sari is very old & I believe references go as far back as the Vedas.
The Greeks & Romans may have worn something similar that they developed independently.
1. Similarity with Sari does not make the other a Sari.
2. There are Hindu texts and sculptures pointing to indigenous development of Sari going back to the Vedas and ancient Hindu sculptures.
3. No documented evidence has been given to show introduction of Indian Sari from anywhere outside.
So why speak of Sari with respect to Sumer or Greece? I'm sure they had names for their own clothes.
And reconstructions of Sumerian wear aside (how authentic are reconstructions BTW, I have always wondered - see also below), what I do know is that images of Hera statues in my possession is with a long cloth draped around her and triangling over one shoulder (and at times rebounding over another shoulder, this is IIRC). But the dress is NOT a sari. It is *very* Greek, *very* unIndian. Same for images of ancient Greek female characters I have. Such ancient Greek women's wear is part of a related series of flowing frilly garments that come in multiple lengths and different shoulder cuts (some have 2-arm slings, forming a V-neck at times, otherwise a close-cut to the neck, at other times a wider boat-neck, etc. Single shoulder is just one of the styles.) All extremely Greek.
Later Roman women's wear is much more similar to the Hindu saree than the traditional Greek kind, but by that time aristocratic Roman women are seen wearing pottu/tilakam on their heads too (IIRC can even see this combination at the end of the film Gladiator where the lovely Danish actress Connie Nielsen is donning both), so maybe it's more than mere "coincidence" since by that time Rome had been getting a lot of their dress material from India. Even so, beyond surface similarities, the Roman style of draping the cloth is not exactly the Hindu saree (at least, in any of the styles I have seen).
Also, IIRC Sumerian civilisation was pre-Babylonian, not the same - though geographically it is still "Mesopotamia". (I have heard doubts whether even the inhabitants were entirely or even largely the same. The place has seen population shifts since a long time ago. Even in islamic times you can see Arabians entering, replaced by Iranians during the time when Baghdad was the islamic capital, and thereafter replaced by Arabians once more until now.)
[quote name='HareKrishna' date='18 March 2010 - 08:51 AM' timestamp='1268882038' post='105258']The celts ,germans thracians,dacians,sakas and their priests were depicted by greek-romans sculptors as wearing pants.Even the roman name for pants -braca ,is of celtic origin.Im talking of continental celts not those from isolated islands.
Celtic gods are also depicted whit pants so i doubt that druids wear white robes .Mithra ,dacian and saka priests also wear pants not robes.[/quote]1. IIRC, from images, Persian men had tunic + pants combinations. The dharmics of India had long tunic + close-fitting pants combination too, this was already discussed earlier in the thread. I think people here posted images of scultpures of ancient Indian men. Hmmm, this was back when I was interfering with my posts on churidar (the tunic+tighter-pants that Dharmic women wear).
BTW, even Veshtis have been worn in "pants" style (separation of legs) by Hindu men, but I don't tend to think of these as pants.
2. The point of my previous post above was that pants among women in Iranian and Iranian-influenced lands - i.e. harem pants - are likely to be Persian of origin since Persians had pants (because the Persian men were known to have pants), whereas Arabian men AND women wear long dresses.
3. Shakas are known to be culturally and linguistically Iranian - hence Iranians to all-intents, purposes and knowledge - need not group them with Celts, Germans, Thracians and other ancient "European" communities. Shakas cluster with Iranians. That they would have pants would not be surprising when the Persians have had the tunic+pants.
Mithra -> Persian. Original followers of this religion were Persian. Their clothes are also Persian. The clothing of the Mithradates and other Mithraic influences remains Persian even as far as Italic Roman territory. Again: so, no need to mention clothing of the priests of Mithra separately from Iranians either.
(Even his most catholic German Pope of the 'Roman' church still wears a Persian Mitre. It is regularly stated by those comparing Mithraism with the Empire's christian church that the vestments of the Roman bishops are Mithraic too. So whether their tunic was always as long as that of the Pope and his men, or whether it once had pants to go with it, I don't know.)
4. As for the continental Celts, already mentioned Galatia in the east. The Gallic kind I'm not sure of: am now doubting my recollection of the reconstructed Gauls in the relevant episode from Terry Jones' Barbarians documentary series for the BBC. So far, my recollection has it that the regular populace was shown in non-descript tunics. Can't remember how the statue of the famous ill-fated Celtic warrior chieftain (V-something-ric?) - the one who took a last stand against Julius - was depicted. Besides, don't even know if the statue was contemporaneous with that period or whether it was merely a later romanticisation of events. But IIRC the rich aristocratic Gaulish woman in the episode was shown wearing a long flowing robe. But only watching it again could be provide any validity to my statements here.
In any case, reconstructions *are* dubious. Even the early ones.
- Late centuries BCE Greek and Roman depictions of a Galatian depicted the Celtic man in the nude.
- And the following's a 19th century *reconstruction* (presumably ignoring contemporary accounts) of Celtic clothing at the time of Julius Caesar (1st century BCE?):
IMAGE: http://www.1st-art-gallery.com/thumbnail...ation-From-$27le-Costume-Ancien-Ou-Moderne$27-1820.jpg
Caption:
Quote:Handmade oil painting reproduction of Celtic people at the time of Julius Caesar, illustration from 'Le Costume Ancien ou Moderne' 1820, a painting by G. Bramati.
Also, by the time of that major Roman face-off with Gaul, the continental Celtic trade empire already had dealings as far east as China (as per doco - again, of dubious memory) and definitely had contact with Persians. This makes the following a fair question in light of what started this topic:
if there's all this wondrous conjecture of the Sari "style" being so "unique and unreplicable" that it *must* have been gifted the Hindus from the Sumerian, Babylonian AND Greek quarters - to make triply sure the Hindoos couldn't have come up with it - surely the Celts could have been gifted the pants by the Persians and Chinese? Except that the Sari is, as I said, documented by and among Hindus from ancient times, well before any (documented) Indian contact with Greece etc. How far back in time do the GrecoRoman depictions of Celtic pants go - do they predate Celtic contact with Persia? (If the GR depictions are from the last centuries BCE then that's the time of the Celtic trade empire in Europe as per "Barbarians", at which point Galatians were already settled in Anatolia then and had contact with the further east.)
Quote:Even the roman name for pants -braca ,is of celtic origin
Actually - the logic is incomplete, not deterministic. That the Romans' word for breeches "braca" is of Celtic origin, does not *necessarily* imply that Celts invented their pants. For example: the late European word "sugar" arrived from Arabic Sukkar, but the Arabians didn't invent it - they got Sakara/Shakara/Sharkara from India via Persia (Shakar). (But apparently at least Greece had already been introduced to sugar much earlier, during Alexander's forrays into India.)
Though, again: that's not to say that Celts *didn't* invent their pants, merely pointing out that the Roman word for pants being Celtic in origin doesn't prove anything beyond that when the Romans named it, they were influenced by Celtic presence in doing so.
Quote:so i doubt that druids wear white robes
Too little known about druids in general. Makes them a source of grand speculation. (But, one does wonder: where then does the popular white robe conception arise from? Because it's not just the dunces of the KKK that have made the claim.)
but there are also the dots
see the topic about aryans.
Sabyasachi Mukherji on the sari and its modern travails, in Telegraph, Kolkata
Sabya on the sari state of affairs
Quote:Sabya on the sari state of affairs
WHY DO WE CALL SOMEONE WHO WEARS A SARI AN AUNTIE, ASKS SABYASACHI MUKHERJEE
Vidya Balan
A certain Miss Balan is often attacked for her sense of style. Sometimes rightly so, and sometimes it is just because she has become the favourite icon for fashion bashing. I would consider this a classic case of stereotyping. When confused, conform.
Rekha
When I disassociate myself from this particular situation to look at society as a whole and fashion in particular, Miss Balan is replaced with a character called the ââ¬Åsariââ¬Â.
I am appalled to say that in the modern society the sari to many has become an icon of backwardness. Many tags have been attached to people who wear the sari ââ¬â behenji, sloppy, auntie being just a few.
And more often than not, these are epithets spouted by women about women themselves.
It worries me. Not the sari ââ¬â because it has the strength to withstand any social crisis: nobody in India is powerful enough, not even a very large part of society, to eradicate hundreds of years of history. What worries me is the sari slanderer.
They must be a rather unhappy lot. When you discard something that is your own and move on, mindlessly seduced by ââ¬Ågreener pasturesââ¬Â ââ¬â in this case foolish fashion mating calls from the West ââ¬â it clearly shows that somewhere deep down you are a tad bit dysfunctional. In all honesty, if a person is secure (and finance has nothing to do with security of this kind), you start celebrating what is your own and not the other way round. It has happened to me.
Aishwarya Rai Bachchan
There was a time when I was an awkward teenager trying to find validation from my peers by being what I would only regard today as obnoxious. As I started spending a lot more time with myself, opening myself to the world outside, I truly understood the resources and strengths within.
Sunita Kumar
Today I might be a fashion designer, on and off the road, but I am probably far more boring than a banker. Clothes wise, I mean. And it is not a political agenda to disconnect myself from the rest, to give myself a certain kind of intellectual aura. It is truly me. Someone who chooses comfort over fashion, functionality over aesthetics. It took me a while to get there but now that I have, nothing can make me budge. Not even the disapproving stare of a certain Miss Wintour. Maybe I have internalised myself enough to look her in the eye (albeit in a dark, crowded room, and with her sunglasses on).
But enough of me. Getting back to the sari, more often than not I drool (and that is a rarity) when I walk into a room full of people and chance upon an elegant woman comfortably and simply wearing a handloom sari, totally stripped of modern necessities (hair dye, baubles, Botox and its brethren). And if this woman laughs animatedly, eats with abandon and manages to wink, I need to be administered smelling salts.
Rani Mukerji
So the trick is to be yourself. It is the ultimate weapon of seduction because, remember, we only get attracted to people who have qualities better than ours or missing in us. And let me tell you, the quality of self-assuredness is missing in a lot of us. Perhaps that is what fashion needs to understand.
So you should think of a reversal process in your head. When in doubt, wear a sari. Not black. Also, what is very important is to celebrate your physicality. It is to be who you are, the way you are. And that sort of happiness can be rather infectious.
My thoughts stray to a comment on the Internet about the generosity of Miss Balanââ¬â¢s stomach. I am sure these are messages typed by stern women on their 19th minute on the treadmill via their BlackBerries. Are we really going to shun someone who enjoys her carbs? Because the sad part is as the tummy turns into washboard, the million-dollar smile would have faded.
And that would be such a shame. Maybe I need to switch from fashion and write a book ââ¬â Lose Your Tummy. Donââ¬â¢t Lose Your Smile. It would make me an instant millionaire.
Save the sari. Share your ideas with t2@abpmail.com
New Delhi Seminar issue on Fashioning Style
07-04-2010, 03:03 PM
(This post was last modified: 07-04-2010, 03:04 PM by HareKrishna.)
What will be the future of indian dress style?
Will completely sucomb to western dress invasion?
Or it will be a mix style between indian and western style?
Will indian designers be successful to impose indian decorations in the modern dress?
08-17-2010, 01:05 AM
(This post was last modified: 08-17-2010, 01:07 AM by ramana.)
The above questions are the subject of a Seminar issue on "Fashioning Style" in India.
The May 2010 issue is dedicated to this subject.
Fashioning Style
The Unstitched Garment
By Rta Kapur Chishti is the author of Saris of India: Tradition and Beyond (2010) and coauthor of Tradition and Beyond: Hand-crafted Indian Textiles, among other publications.
Films and Fashion
has articles on food fads too.
The Telegraph has an op-ed.
8 Sept 2010
Quote:SIX YARDS OF GRACE AND ELEGANCE
WITHOUT APOLOGY
The sari hardly needs to be revived, since it is alive and well
Ogaan, an exclusive, expensive designer store in south Calcutta has recently morphed into, well, another exclusive, expensive designer store ââ¬â the Sabyasachi Mukherjee store. The opening of the store was accompanied by the Page 3 pageantry that would, and should, accompany the name and label of one of Indiaââ¬â¢s foremost designers. Mukherjeeââ¬â¢s efforts to convert the Page 3 people of Calcutta into sari lovers is commendable.
Mukherjee has written elegies on the sari and has emphasized the fact that it is seen as a ââ¬Ëbehenjiââ¬â¢ or ââ¬Ëauntyââ¬â¢ option for the fashionable. The sari is dying ââ¬Åbit by bitââ¬Â everyday, he fears. To allay his fears, many of his friends and clients turned up in cotton saris at the inauguration. ââ¬ÅAll the maids must be in full action all morning with safety pins... this is the biggest achievement... to connect these women back to their roots,ââ¬Â says the designer without a hint of irony. There is some good news and some bad news for Mukherjee in all this. First the bad news: the pins are now off and a majority of his invitees are back to their muftis, not having been returned ââ¬Ëto their rootsââ¬â¢. The aforesaid maids, possibly sari-clad, must have survived that taxing morning.
Now the good news. The sariââ¬â¢s existence does not really depend on Mukherjeeââ¬â¢s charmed circle ââ¬â the garment is a survivor and will outlive its rejection by the size-zero brigade.
But it is true to some extent that the sari has lost its aspirational edge. Our mothers had role models ranging from Indira Gandhi, Maharani Gayatri Devi, Rekha to Sharmila Tagore, who wore saris wherever they went, without either apology or the need to prove a point. They wore it because they wished to. All of them were as much at ease in other forms of clothing.
If the sari is seen as a fuddy-duddy option today, it is because of Mukherjeeââ¬â¢s tribe, the designers. They have discovered a world beyond the six yards of the sari, and would uphold their creations as the byword of fashion since that makes good business sense. Even those who are known for their trousseau/sari lines occasionally do more harm than good to the cause of the sari. For example, Tarun Tahiliani has said that plus-sized women must wear saris when they go out, inadvertently sounding as if he thinks that the sari is the last resort of the obese.
The media also have a part to play in this. They have decided that there are areas of public life where the sari has no place. The college campus, for example. Recently, there was an outcry against a college that wanted its students and teachers to come in saris. While any dress code is objectionable, sections of the media went overboard in calling it ââ¬ËTalibanization.ââ¬â¢ Welham, Dehra Dun, one of the most exclusive girlsââ¬â¢ schools in India, has a salwar kurta uniform. Nobody questions that, but when Muralidhar Girlsââ¬â¢ College recommends the sari, itââ¬â¢s seen as Talibanization.
Mukherjeeââ¬â¢s zeal in making his fashionable friends take to the sari may or may not be successful, but he can get some consolation from the fact that the future of the sari does not depend on his endeavour. The sari does have competition, but it has enough grace and elegance to adapt and survive. Mukherjee would do well to brave the midday pre-Puja chaos and come to Gariahat to look at the women and the sari shops. Both were there before he came along and will be there long after us all. The sari is alive and well.
MALAVIKA R. BANERJEE
Quote:The media also have a part to play in this. They have decided that there are areas of public life where the sari has no place. The college campus, for example. Recently, there was an outcry against a college that wanted its students and teachers to come in saris. While any dress code is objectionable, sections of the media went overboard in calling it ââ¬ËTalibanization.ââ¬â¢ Welham, Dehra Dun, one of the most exclusive girlsââ¬â¢ schools in India, has a salwar kurta uniform. Nobody questions that, but when Muralidhar Girlsââ¬â¢ College recommends the sari, itââ¬â¢s seen as Talibanization.
Was this a private college?
If it was then they can set their own dress code.
They have no objections to madrasas setting their own dress code but "saree" is talibanization. Scumbags should be airdropped into Afghanistan to see what Talibanization really means.
Cultural imperialism signifies the dimensions of the process that go beyond economic exploitation or military force. In the history of colonialism, the educational and media systems of many Third World countries have been set up as replicas of those in Britain, France, or the United States and carry their values. Western advertising has made further inroads, as have ARCHITECTURAL AND FASHION STYLES.
Subtly but powerfully, the message has often been insinuated that Western cultures are superior to the cultures of the Third World.
Media imperialism often described as a process whereby the United States and Western Europe produce most of the media products, make the first profits from domestic sales, and then market the products in Third World countries at costs considerably lower than those the countries would have to bear to produce similar products at home.
11-12-2010, 07:34 PM
(This post was last modified: 12-03-2010, 08:07 PM by Husky.)
Addendum to these 3 earlier posts:
1. [quote name='Bharatvarsh' date='18 September 2007 - 09:01 PM' timestamp='1190129029' post='73305']
Is the nosestud a native thing or a later influence after Muslims came.
I found this:
http://satyameva-jayate.org/2007/09/18/if-...ilak-was-funny/
This is also there in TN and South which did not have as much Muslim influence, anyone has a clue?
[/quote]
2.[quote name='Husky' date='19 September 2007 - 03:25 PM' timestamp='1190195230' post='73338']Among S Indian Hindus it is a highly religious thing, together with toe rings.
I heard my older aunts and grandmother talking to my sister about these things in the period leading up to, and just after, her wedding. (But she has not got her nose pierced so far, don't know if she will.) Ear studs also had some significance to do with marriage, but can't remember.
Also, all the Goddesses in TN and Karnatakan temples I have been to have always worn nosestuds - I think both sides (like my mum, all my aunts and grandmothers have). Same goes for all the temple vigraha paintings of Goddesses that I have seen. According to my dad, it is a must to draw them in if anyone is thinking of painting a genuine Goddess as she is in the Indian temple in the traditional way. (Just like one must include all 5 of Mahavishnu's implements if one were to draw him, and the correct items in Lakshmi's or Saraswati's hands, and the like.)
I don't know any more than that myself.
With the exception of muslim women of the Indian subcontinent, I have never seen islamis with nosestuds. For instance, I've never seen Tunisian women wear it (I've seen a video of Tunisian homelife) nor the few Iraqi and Afghan women I've seen here. Don't know about real-life Iranian muslim women, but can't recall as the ones I've seen on TV programs had any nosestuds.
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3.[quote name='sankara' date='19 September 2007 - 08:37 PM' timestamp='1190213976' post='73345']
I have never seen any Arab woman or women from the middle-east in general wear a nose-ring. Among muslims, the nose-ring seems to be common only among those from the Indian subcontinent. Again, there are regional variations within India in propensity to wear a nose-ring: a tamilian muslim woman is more likely to wear a nose-ring than a muslim from the north. Unlike for hindus, the nose-ring is not seen as mandatory for Indian muslims. Hence, the inter-religious influence, if any, of the nose-ring must be from hinduism to islam after the mughal invasions. In the south, particularly TN, nose-rings are seen as mandatory for married Hindu women, especially both nostrils. For unmarried girls, the nose-ring is worn only on one side (I forget which side denotes unmarried status), and after marriage, it is typically worn on both sides.
In fact, one of the muslim websites - I forget which one - had a debate not long ago about whether it is acceptable for muslim women to wear a nose-ring. This debate in that muslim website was started I presume because there are many young muslim women living in the West, who would like to wear a nose-ring for ornamental purpose, or do other types of body-piercing, just like their western counterparts, but are not sure how islam treates body-piercing. Based on the discussion, it seemed like many muslims of Arab origin frown upon body piercing and call it unislamic, whereas those from the Indian subcontinent think its OK. Thus, this lends me to believe that any influence has to be from hinduism to Islam than the other way around.
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More proof that nose-rings India-wide are not due to any "islamic" influence either, but are religious Hindu practice (just as they remain in the south of the country):
In a simile in his Shyamala Dandakam, Kalidasa also tells us how Goddess Uma wears a nose ornament. Notice how it's not me saying (or translating) it:
Quote:à ¤¸à ¥Âà ¤µà ¥â¡Ã ¤¦ à ¤¬à ¤¿à ¤¨à ¥Âà ¤¦à ¥âà ¤²à ¥Âà ¤²à ¤¸à ¤¤à ¥ à ¤«à ¤¾à ¤² à ¤²à ¤¾à ¤µà ¤£à ¥Âà ¤¯ à ¤¨à ¤¿à ¤·à ¥Âà ¤¯à ¤¨à ¥Âà ¤¦ à ¤¸à ¤¨à ¥Âà ¤¦à ¥â¹Ã ¤¹ à ¤¸à ¤¨à ¥Âà ¤¦à ¥â¡Ã ¤¹ à ¤â¢Ã Â¥Æà ¤¨à ¥Âà ¤¨à ¤¾à ¤¸à ¤¿à ¤â¢Ã ¤¾ à ¤®à ¥Åà ¤â¢Ã Â¥Âà ¤¤à ¤¿à ¤â¢Ã Â¥â¡!
(The sweat drops on your [Shyamala=Uma's] forehead which make your forehead beautiful
Look like the reflection of the pearls in your nose ornament!)
Kalidasa predates islamism in India and is not from the southern parts of Bharatam.
That the Hindu Goddesses' wear nose ornaments was well-known all over ancient India. Here, Kalidasa himself - who knows his Mother Kali well - tells us so.
- Hindus: women wear nose studs, nose rings etc (nose ornaments) in religious imitation of their Goddesses. It has remained very important among traditional Hindu women in the South.
- Islamic nations that don't have Hindu ancestry such as those in the ME: no nose ornaments.
- Hindu converts to islamania within the bounds of ancient Bharatam: any who still wear nose ornaments have merely kept up this very Hindu religio-tradition of their Hindu ancestors, wearing nose jewellery just like their ancestral Mother Goddesses. They have simply forgotten why they are doing it. In reality, any such muslimahs who still wear them continue to honour their ancestral Hindu Goddesses.
Engraving from 1683. Note the statue depicted as a Devil.
Source: http://sareedreams.com/2011/02/saree-eng...from-1683/
![[Image: saree_1683.jpg]](http://sareedreams.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/saree_1683.jpg)
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