The Real Indian IQ

[G.Subramaniam]

http://www.unmc.edu/Community/ruralmeded/a..._and_us_med.htm

--

For age 17-24, % in Med School, in USA

Asian Indians = 5%
Chinese = 2%
White = 0.4%
Black = 0.2%
Hispanic = 0.1%

[G.Subramaniam]

Excerpt from Desi Land by Shalini Shankar

In some schools in San Jose, California
there are 2 sets of Indian students

Those descended from techies and upper middle class
and others

In subjects like chemistry,
the Indian teacher, a Mrs.Biswas, is shocked that some Indian students fail chemistry

It is a very disjointed bell curve

The kids of techies score A, the kids of others score F

[agnivayu]

San Jose schools are not very good.
Sunnyvale, Cupertino schools are lot better (Also Indian % is much higher)
Sunnyvale has 10%+ Indian population, Cupertino is 12.5% or so and Fremont is 12.9% Indian.

I believe Edison, NJ is almost 20% Indian. Anyone have stats on schools there. We want Indians of poorer backgrounds to immigrate to the U.S. in large #'s (like Mexicans)





<!--QuoteBegin-G.Subramaniam+Sep 9 2009, 10:16 AM-->QUOTE(G.Subramaniam @ Sep 9 2009, 10:16 AM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->Excerpt from Desi Land by Shalini Shankar

In some schools in San Jose, California
there are 2 sets of Indian students

Those descended from techies and upper middle class
and others

In subjects like chemistry,
the Indian teacher, a Mrs.Biswas, is shocked that some Indian students fail chemistry

It is a very disjointed bell curve

The kids of techies score A, the kids of others score F
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<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

[G.Subramaniam]

Hindustan Times

Each year 15 lakh students across the world appear for IGCSE exams, 20,000 are from India. This is the first time that Cambridge International Examination (CIE), the body that conducts the exam, has declared subject toppers at the IGCSE level. “In 2009, 38 per cent of Indian students got high grades,” said Ian Chambers, CIE’s South Asia manager. “Indian students now rank five per cent above the rest of the world in overall performance.”

[Guest]

See the paper by Dr. Anjini Kochar of Stanford University (Stanford Center for International Development) :
"Affirmative Action through Quotas: The Effect on Higher Education In India

Paper is available in http://scid.stanford.edu/system/files/shar...ini_K_paper.pdf

It has been presented in the annual India conference of SCID:
http://scid.stanford.edu/node/232


I feel the research more or less concludes that the Affirmative Action through Quotas has not been effective.

Any comments ?

[G.Subramaniam]

<!--QuoteBegin-Bharath+Nov 11 2009, 09:01 AM-->QUOTE(Bharath @ Nov 11 2009, 09:01 AM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->See the paper by Dr. Anjini Kochar of Stanford University (Stanford Center for International Development) :
    "Affirmative Action through Quotas: The Effect on Higher Education In India

  Paper is available in http://scid.stanford.edu/system/files/shar...ini_K_paper.pdf

It has been presented in the annual India conference of SCID:
      http://scid.stanford.edu/node/232


  I feel the research more or less concludes that the Affirmative Action through Quotas has not been effective. 

  Any comments ?
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<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->


Since IQ is 82% genetic, ( once malnutrition is removed )
Affirmative action is never the ideal solution

But it is a political solution

Think of it as one more tax and re-distribution to meet the public peace

Poverty levels are 40% for ST, 30% for SC and 20% for OBC vs just 10% for FC

As long as the FC is unwilling to breed, quotas for the creamy layer for the quota castes is a way to keep public unrest below a threshold

It is not class, but caste that rules India
So as long as a handful of ST elite get quota, the bulk of the ST feel satisfied that their kind is also sharing at the trough

Similar to how UP Dalits support Mayavati despite her excesses

[kchandra]

The whole issue, of failure of a section ( higher IQ ) of population, to breed more compared to the rest of the population should be seen in the context of whether this group ( or any other group ) sees itself as one cohesive group and so is under threat of being overwhelmed ( or underwhelmed by low IQ ) by a lower IQ population group.



I dont know if any group ( FC or high IQ group ) somehow sees itself ( neither will it ever do in future ) as a very cohesive group that requires protection. I can probably brain wash my kids to make them believe this, but i am not sure, if majority of parents neither understands nor bothers to realise the need to out breed.



Perhaps, a more realistic approach would be to use other factors ( less controversial ) like universal education, health care and other mortality reducing measures that might in the long run lead to a general population reduction of all sections. Of course only governments have the power to affect health care and education policies, on a large scale. If Nehru had focused on primary school education as a priority, perhaps that would have had a more dramatic effect on population growth ( Kerala is a classic example ) . Until about early 1900's , i believe there was a check on low IQ populations to outbreed, due to lack of basic medical facilities and uncertainity of basic food requirements. I do believe that , Indian population growth rate ( of about 1.34 % per annum ) will decline in the long run, following a predictable pattern observed in many countries.



A case in point, UK's growth population rate pbetween 1900 er year and 1910 was around 1 % not too far from India's current rate. UK has a negative population growth rate now, though its population is increasing due to migration from other countries.



- Krishna

[kchandra]

In fact sometimes i wonder, if the skewed IQ distribution among Indian population ( preponderance of low IQ folks among labor classes ) is a direct result of Nehru/Early Indian leadership's obsession with higher education, 5 year plans etc. and neglecting basic universal primary education. Unlike China.



Hypothetically if , say India focused all her energies on achieving close to 100 % primary education until say 1970's , it appears, our population would not have grown so much, as well as , the poorer sections would not have disproportionately grown faster, so perhaps the population of SC/ST and OBC ( and poorer FC's ) folks as a percentage of total population would have been lesser. I am not peddling this theory as a fact, but generally it appears to me to be true.



If the above trajectory was followed, perhaps, the Indian story would have been different. ANd our economic reforms ( and even the robustness of our democracy) would have been even more meaningful with a 95 % + literacy rate!.



- Krishna

[G.Subramaniam]

http://medind.nic.in/ibv/t04/i2/ibvt04i2p121.pdf



Pune Low birth weight study, 12 year follow up



Normal birth weight kids = 97 IQ

Low birth weight kids = 92 IQ

Very Low birth weight kids = 86 IQ

[G.Subramaniam]

My initial guess of Pranav Veera, 6 year old of 176 IQ being SIB is correct -

USA today - His mother and grandmother, Shanta Sastri, work with him at home

[Bharatvarsh2]

Not directly about Indian IQ but a talk by Steven Pinker about Ashkenazi IQ:



http://video.google.ca/videoplay?docid=6...ews&view=3#

[G.Subramaniam]

I just discovered that Kavya Shivshanker , the 2009 spelling bee winner is a Vokkaliga

My guess of kannadiga IQ is that Vokkaligas rank below brahmins and lingayats

and Vokkaliga is analogous to Patel or Jat or Reddy, meaning of the upper level peasantry



It seems to confirm my hypothesis, that south Indian levels with nutrition are very high

even south Indian peasants perform at white levels



And white levels have been dumbed down due to the celibacy requirement for catholic priests

effectively castrating the brightest for generations

Same phenom is true for buddhism



It is also a fallacy to claim that all yellow races have more IQ

The burmese are dumb as stone, which is why non-brahmin tamils were market dominant minorities



in colonial period

[Bharatvarsh2]

Well IQ tests only show North East Asians (i.e Japanese, Chinese, Koreans) as having high IQ's.



I would be interested to know the case of Vietnam and Cambodia (Pol Pot killed off many of the smartest).



While celibacy is bad for the smartest it doesn't seem to have impacted Catholic Europe too much. Italy, France, Spain, Ireland are all developed and as I remember Lynn's data (take it with a pinch of salt) showed Italy as scoring 102.



Italy while lagging behind the Protestant Europeans in recent times played a big role in the Renaissance.



One must be thankful though that celibacy was confined to only the renunciates among Hindus instead of the general Brahmin priesthood.

[Bharatvarsh2]

In a review (http://dx.doi.org/10.1016/j.intell.2006.08.001) of Race differences in intelligence: An evolutionary hypothesis in Intelligence, N.J. Mackintosh brings up more falsifications of data by Lynn:



Even if we wanted the data, can we rely on Lynn to have given an accurate account of them? I do not pretend to have read the originals of more than a handful of the papers and books cited by Lynn, but it just so happens that I wrote two of them myself, and Lynn has simply got their data wrong. Table 6.2 gives the results of 13 estimates of the IQ scores of south Asians in Britain and Australia. The median score is said to be 89, and similar for Indians and Pakistanis (as is to be expected since they are the same racial group). In fact, three British studies have given the same IQ tests to Indian and Pakistani children, and in all three, Indian children have outscored the Pakistanis by 4–6 IQ points. Mackintosh and Mascie-Taylor (1986) reported IQ scores of 97 and 93 for 10-year-old children of Indian and Pakistani origin respectively, but Lynn incorrectly attributes both scores to Pakistanis, one said to be for children resident in Britain more than 4 years, the other for more recent immigrants. West, Mascie-Taylor, and Mackintosh (1992) reported IQ scores of 91 and 85 for Indian and Pakistani children, but in Lynn's table these have mysteriously turned into scores of 87 and 88. The errors may not be particularly important, and I do not know how typical they are. But they do not increase my confidence in Lynn's scholarship.



http://dienekes.blogspot.com/2006/09/mor...-lynn.html

[G.Subramaniam]

[quote name='Bharatvarsh2' date='04 April 2010 - 08:30 AM' timestamp='1270349567' post='105631']

Well IQ tests only show North East Asians (i.e Japanese, Chinese, Koreans) as having high IQ's.



I would be interested to know the case of Vietnam and Cambodia (Pol Pot killed off many of the smartest).



While celibacy is bad for the smartest it doesn't seem to have impacted Catholic Europe too much. Italy, France, Spain, Ireland are all developed and as I remember Lynn's data (take it with a pinch of salt) showed Italy as scoring 102.



Italy while lagging behind the Protestant Europeans in recent times played a big role in the Renaissance.



One must be thankful though that celibacy was confined to only the renunciates among Hindus instead of the general Brahmin priesthood.

[/quote]



IMHO, that was the main reason for collapse of buddhism in India, the buddhist priesthood got more enstupidated each generation

and same happened in Sri Lanka where the sinhalese buddhists got enstupidated

[G.Subramaniam]

http://www.free-iqtest.net is a trap



You take an iq test and then they ask you for your email and then name, address and phone number

and they say they will email you the iq score



What happens is that no iq score gets emailed to you



Instead you are surrepstiously signed up to some internet company that bills your phone bill

for $15 and unless you check your phone bill very closely they get away with it

[Guest]

My son started competing in Chess tournaments. The Indian and Chinese (or Asian origin) contingent are high. Being in the middle school, he passed an entrance test in Maths for a local university program (highly rated though); again there were big contingents from the local Indian and Chinese (Asian) people.



I had similar observations in several Math competitions & National Geographic Bee.

[G.Subramaniam]

[quote name='Swamy G' date='17 April 2010 - 11:01 PM' timestamp='1271524982' post='105947']

My son started competing in Chess tournaments. The Indian and Chinese (or Asian origin) contingent are high. Being in the middle school, he passed an entrance test in Maths for a local university program (highly rated though); again there were big contingents from the local Indian and Chinese (Asian) people.



I had similar observations in several Math competitions & National Geographic Bee.

[/quote]



Interestingly, I saw the result of an IQ test on orientals



It is bimodal, Koreans and Chinese and Japanese score higher than whites whereas the rest, Thai, Viet, Pinoy etc score at hispanic levels



I got a private email from you, but it does not have your email address

If you send me your email , I will reply to you privately

[Guest]

gsub: you can email me at <edited out>.



I forgot to add another observation => kids from couple of Jewish private schools participate and win several of these local chess tournaments.

[Guest]

It is bimodal, Koreans and Chinese and Japanese score higher than whites whereas the rest, Thai, Viet, Pinoy etc score at hispanic levels

Why is that the case?