05-04-2010, 08:47 PM
(This post was last modified: 05-04-2010, 09:18 PM by Husky.)
Another bit of news that won't do the round in christo tele in India. Because the facts are not good PR for the True Church, you see. While it won't offend Indian christists (all christists are anti-semites - it's a fundamental part of the religion; any sheep that aren't, are influenced on this point by a grand heresy), it won't be a good show to present to the heathen audiences targeted for conversion: for them to find out that the church bears implacable hatred towards others and supports spokespersons for the same will hardly go down well with the heathens meant to be evangelised by the doublespeak message on "Love".
Non-existent jeebus lubs. It lubs everyone. See. See how it lubs.
First the older news (1 and 2) - my inserts in purple:
1.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/...739023.htm
Quote:Holocaust-denying bishop faces trial
Posted November 11, 2009 05:43:00
Updated November 11, 2009 01:55:00
A British bishop who denied the Holocaust took place has been summoned to appear in a German court for inciting racial hatred, a court spokesman said.
Richard Williamson, from the ultra-conservative Saint Pius X Society, has denied the charges against him and refused to pay the 12,000-euro ($19,300) fine that would enable him to avoid trial, the spokesman said.
The court has not yet set a date for any potential trial and Williamson has the right not to appear in person but to appoint a lawyer to plead his case for him.
Williamson sparked an outcry in January when he gave an interview near Regensburg, southern Germany, in which he said that "not one Jew" was killed in gas chambers.
"It was all lies, lies, lies," he said in an interview that was later aired on Swedish television.
The bishop said he believed "200,000 to 300,000 Jews perished in Nazi concentration camps, but none of them by gas chambers".
The outburst prompted a rare comment on religious matters by German Chancellor Angela Merkel, who called on Pope Benedict XVI to "clarify unambiguously that there can be no denial" the Nazis killed six million Jews.
Denying the Holocaust took place, or questioning key elements, is illegal in Germany and Austria.
- AFP
2. And a 3-part article in Spiegel.de from the start of this year:
www.spiegel.de/international/germany/0,1518,675163,00.html
Quote:02/01/2010
Embarrassment for the Catholic Church
Bishop Williamson Unrepentent in Holocaust Denial
By Peter Wensierski and Steffen Winter
Controversial Bishop Richard Williamson continues in his denial of the Holocaust, embarrassing both the Society of St. Pius to which he belongs and the Vatican. But the SSPX is becoming increasingly powerful despite the controversy and is attracting more and more supporters.
[color="#800080"](Uhhh, how is it embarrassing to the SSPX? One of their chief features is open anti-semitism. It is known as the controversial catholic renegade sect for that reason. Mel Gibson and his dad are part of it, IIRC. Yes, see here.
And IIRC, SSPX is the catholic subcult that that Indian christo looney L. Mascaren~has belongs to.
More recently SSPX "reconciled" with the Vatican. I think it was Ratzy who desperately wanted the reconciliation and got it done.
The only embarrassment to the Vatican is that christianism's/catholicism's innate anti-semitism is getting all this exposure. Now they can't keep up the fraud that they "merely remained silent and inactive" w.r.t. the Holocaust of the Jews.)[/color]
Richard Williamson's complaints begin when he looks out the window of his office in Saint George's House, the London headquarters of the Society of St. Pius X (SSPX). Just past the garden, at the base of a small hill in verdant Wimbledon Park, are a pond, golf course, croquet club and, most famously, the tennis courts.
The old man at the window likes tennis, which he admiringly calls the "greatest spectacle," a game that involves "one spirit, one will." In tennis, he says, it's as if two gladiators were fighting each other, "just without bloodshed."
PHOTO GALLERY
4 Photos
Photo Gallery: 'We Are at War'
But Williamson would not be true to form if he didn't smell damnation in even the noblest of spectacles. The outfits worn by female tennis players, the bishop says indignantly, "hardly reach past the middles of their thighs." Williamson has noticed female fans wearing even shorter skirts. "Aren't there are any men left who tell their daughters, sisters, wives or mothers that this sort of outfit is only meant for the eyes of their own husbands?"
The world has become a smaller place for the notorious bishop. Since he denied the existence of the Holocaust on television more than a year ago, [size="6"]causing serious problems for Pope Benedict XVI and almost triggering a revolt against Rome by the Catholic faithful[/size], the ultra-conservative SSPX has kept him in virtual quarantine at its Wimbledon headquarters. Bishop Bernard Fellay, the superior general of the SSPX, likens Williamson to uranium: "It's dangerous when you have it," he says, but you can't "simply leave it by the side of the road."
'A Huge Lie'
Fellay knows what he is talking about. Williamson has no intention of revising his views on the gas chambers. When Nazi hunter Beate Klarsfeld sent him a book about the history of the Holocaust last year, he set it aside, unread. "The fact is that the 6 million people who were supposedly gassed represent a huge lie," he wrote recently to his fellow members of the SSPX, noting that "a completely new world order was built" on this "fact." The Jews, he added, "became ersatz saviors thanks to the concentration camps."
[color="#800080"](Ah yes. The post-war propaganda of the christonazis: declaring that Nazi Germany was and continues to be "victimised" by the holocaust "propaganda" of the Jews. Christoism and its oryanist spin-off show are always the same. They always go hand-in-hand too. Either conscious christoism - including oryanist KKK and the Aryan Christian movement in the US or whatever it's called, etc - or christoconditioned oryanism like the previously-christian-now-vanilla oryanists.
Unlike the Vatican, the Bishop's support for erstwhile nazi Germany is a recognition of its christianism: he refuses to deny the fundamental christianism of nazism, whereas the Vatican wouldn't stick by its own christian sheep of the Nazi states after it was caught red-handed.)[/color]
Williamson, after refusing to pay a fine of ââ¬12,000 ($16,800), faces charges of inciting racial hatred in a trial in the southern German city of Regensburg set to begin on April 16. Although it is unclear whether he will appear at the trial in person, the bishop has already assembled a legal team that includes German lawyer Matthias Lossmann and the British attorney who once represented former Chilean dictator Augusto Pinochet in his fight against extradition.
Both the obstinate bishop's refusal to abandon his preposterous Holocaust theories and the trial in Regensburg are as embarrassing to the SSPX as they are to the Vatican, which is currently in direct talks with the fundamentalists. During the monthly meetings, three theologians from the SSPX sit, almost as they were participating in another Vatican council, across from three papal theologians in the Palace of the Holy Office, which is home to the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith and is adjacent to St. Peter's Basilica. This is as close to the Vatican as it gets. Left-leaning and liberal theologians like Hans Küng have spent their lives dreaming in vain of such an encounter.
[color="#800080"](Why is Spiegel trying hard to present the SSPX as being "embarrassed" by the bishop's anti-semitism? Not long ago - before the reconciliation between SSPX and Vatican - every news channel and print media was willing to go on record to admit the SSPX was extremely and openly anti-semitic. One hug and kiss with the Pope later, we're supposed to believe they've denounced it miraculously?)[/color]
The 1962-1965 Second Vatican Council, also known as Vatican II, whose reforms helped to modernize the Catholic Church, is high up on the agenda of the members of the SSPX, who want to see it reversed as much as possible. For them, ecumenism is the stuff of the devil, the recognition of Judaism is a source of contention and the modern form of the liturgy is an impossible act of assimilation to the zeitgeist.
[color="#800080"](SSPX want the christist liturgy to still remain in 'Latin' (babble butchers Latin), like back in the day when it was a crime warranting death to own or print or read/speak the bible in any other language - especially a spoken tongue that could be understood by the masses.
The vatican was forced to do away with this major aspect of the catholic religion as part of its counter-reformation. SSPX doesn't agree and it was one of several such fundamentally-catholic reasons for them to split off from the mainstream catholic church. SSPX believes it is the *true* catholic church.
The christist of Goan origin and would-be inquisitor, L. Mascaren~has, must have been heart-broken when he found out his SSPX rejoined the Vatican that he was railing against. Don't know what he's complaining about. It's the same disease.
Plus JPII and Ratzy are of the same view as SSPX and have been working hard during their terms to undo Roncalli's Vatican II.
And their rapprochement with SSPX is only possible because they are in agreement with the unyielding SSPX. I.e. it is the Vatican's change of ownership - power going to popes who have the same views as SSPX - that has made SSPX willing to rejoin the mainstream catholic cult.)[/color]
Their goal is to be recognized in Rome again after 22 years. The Vatican also wants to put an end to the division within the Church. But Williamson, who has been a thorn in the side of those seeking rapprochement, isn't going away.
[color="#0000FF"]If a fundamentalist bishop like Williamson were to become unaffiliated, he would have the potential to divide the church once again. He could consecrate new priests at any time or establish his own, even more radical movement.[/color] This would be inconvenient for both Benedict and the SSPX, which is why Williamson is being tolerated.
[color="#800080"](Forget the final line which is apologetics. The blue lines of the above paragraph are important. It says he has supporters: he has influence over the SSPX followers. Why? Because many of them agree with him. Besides, the SSPX recognises its own pope - or used to - and calls the Vatican's 'elected' pope an anti-pope. Mascaren~has was all ra-ra over his "true" pope vs JPII.)[/color]
'These Men Are Rats'
Williamson's refuge is a small guest room on Arthur Road in southern London, where he has a view of Centre Court at Wimbledon. The room is in a plain-looking, newer building, adorned only with two columns flanking the front door. A sign at the entrance to a chapel in the garden calls upon the faithful to pray during the SSPX's upcoming "Rosary Crusade." Father Lindström, a gaunt Swede, ensures that only the right people are allowed to visit Williamson.
The bishop has a reputation for being unpredictable. Sometimes he gives the staff instructions to tell visitors that he is not home, but on one occasion he sat down next to a Christmas tree for an interview with a video blogger. An interview with SPIEGEL, which had been scheduled for some time, happened to fall on a bad day. Williamson was only willing to appear on a stair landing, and even then, all that was visible of him were one of his arms and his hand wearing his bishop's ring. His voice was easy to recognize, but he refused to speak directly with his interviewers, leaving Lindström to run up and down the stairs, delivering the questions and answers.
Later, Williamson decided to continue the interview with SPIEGEL by e-mail -- even though he was only in the next room. The visit had made him very angry. "We are at war," he raged, "and you are on the wrong side." German liberal intellectuals are as distasteful to him as short skirts on the tennis court. "These men are, at least objectively, rats," he wrote in a reference to SPIEGEL journalists.
www.spiegel.de/international/germany/0,1518,675163-2,00.html
Quote:02/01/2010
Embarrassment for the Catholic Church
Bishop Williamson Unrepentent in Holocaust Denial
By Peter Wensierski and Steffen Winter
Part 2: Heresies and Errors
There is a strict regimen at the London headquarters of the Fraternitas Sacerdotalis Sancti Pii X, as the SSPX is called in Latin: wake up at 6:00 a.m., first prayers at 6:30, mass at 7:15, lunch at 12:45 p.m., rosary at 6:30, evening prayers at 9:00.
To the right of the entrance is the library, which has a separate cupboard for banned books. Guarded by two statues, one of Jesus and one of the Virgin Mary, a sign clearly identifies the dangerous publications in the cabinet as "Heresies/Errors." On the top shelf is a book by the liberal German theologian Karl Rahner, a key influence on the Second Vatican Council, and next to it is a book that, though considered an authority by more than a billion Catholics, is far too modern for the SSPX: the "Catechism of the Catholic Church."
PHOTO GALLERY
4 Photos
Photo Gallery: 'We Are at War'
Williamson lives on the second floor. This is where the bishop, who likes to perform lieder by Robert Schumann, removes his heavy bishop's ring and plays works by German composers on the piano. "Music," he says, "is an expression of harmony or disharmony in human souls."
He also spends much of his time surfing the Internet, where he has loyal fans. There are 520 people registered as friends on his Facebook page, and hundreds read his columns on the Web, which he writes under the pen name "Dinoscopus" -- a made-up word derived from dinosaur and episcopus (the Latin word for bishop). He cultivates his image as a reactionary and as keeper of the pure faith. Living in a large city is harmful, he recently pontificated while glancing at the tennis courts. It gets in the way of and destroys marriages, he said, turns young men into "washcloths" that are "washed out by liberalism," so much so that "their common sense is diluted."
Williamson is a sophisticated man who delivers powerful sermons. He is a literary scholar with a Cambridge degree who speaks perfect French, German and Spanish. He is also vain, appreciating refined manners and expensive clothes, and he forgets the world around him when he plays Beethoven.
And he is someone who believes that no Jews were killed in the Third Reich's gas chambers.
'We Have Lost One of Our Four Bishops'
Bishop Fellay, Williamson's superior, looks distressed as he sits in his office at Schwandegg Palace in Menzingen, Switzerland. He fervently hopes "that Williamson doesn't explode." The palace offers a sweeping view of Alpine foothills in the canton of Zug, where the old spa town sits atop a 900-meter (2,950-foot) mountain. The voices of oblates, devout lay women who help the priests run the household, can be heard in the hallways.
"We have lost one of our four bishops," says Fellay. "We can't use him for anything anymore." He is struggling with himself and history, trying to find the right words and the appropriate amount of distance to the matter. He finds the whole thing "incredibly unpleasant," and says that he had believed that "the bishop had understood things better in the meantime." But unfortunately Williamson did not understand. Fellay says that his personal belief is that the Holocaust is "obviously" a fact.
[color="#FF0000"]But not all of his brothers are willing to agree. Shortly after the Williamson scandal broke in early 2009, an Italian priest,[/color] Father Floriano Abrahamowicz, speculated that the gas chambers may have been used merely "for disinfection," and that Erich Priebke, a former captain in the SS who was involved in and later convicted of the shootings of hundreds of civilians in Italy, was in fact not an executioner. This too was "unpleasant" for the SSPX leadership.
[color="#800080"](Note how the denunciation of anti-semitism in the catholic cult(s) is superficial. In reality, it continues to exist from the top, down to the leaf-level of the church. On the surface - for the outside world - they have sworn it off/distanced themselves from it. But it continues to exist. They know it exists: the Vatican and SSPX know their orgs consist of these men. And yet they do nothing. Other than try to hide the knowledge of the continuing extreme anti-semitism within the church from the the rest of the world.)[/color]
[color="#0000FF"]On the other hand, the whole debate has had its advantages. Because of Williamson, the SSPX has acquired a level of notoriety unprecedented since its establishment in 1969 by the renegade French Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre. Ultra-conservatives have always loved the Pius Brothers, and now they are becoming heroes of the right-wing, anti-modernist movement. What should a superior general like Fellay do about this?[/color]
Appealing to Extremists
"We have an appeal for extremists, who we don't even want," says Fellay, for whom questions of faith are ultimately the most important issues. One of those questions of faith revolves around who should have the say in religious matters in Switzerland: the church, with its beautiful churches and bell towers, or the mosques, with their minarets? This is why Fellay has fueled the recent debate in Switzerland over banning minarets. In fact, he welcomed the debate, because, as he says, Islam is "aggressive in general."
(Fascist SSPX/catholicism/christianism will fingerpoint to islam in typical christist hypocrisy. Both same religion.)
On the other hand, the Pius disciples are perfectly calm and understanding when it comes to the mendacious and hate-filled speech coming from their own ranks. None of Williamson's colleagues get upset when the bishop writes disparagingly about women in his blog, calling them "less than zeroes" and insisting that they are "under the power of the man." "He should be your master," he writes.
[color="#800080"](Again. They adhere perfectly to christian tradition and teaching. I don't know why the pope is embarrassed.)[/color]
The Catholic brothers in Stuttgart showed their aggressive side against gays by staging a protest against the city's Christopher Street Day parade, which celebrates gay pride. The priests held up signs that read "Save Children from Perversion," and one of them condemned the event as "moral pollution." He neglected to mention his fellow SSPX member's denial of the Holocaust.
www.spiegel.de/international/germany/0,1518,675163-3,00.html
Quote:02/01/2010
Embarrassment for the Catholic Church
Bishop Williamson Unrepentent in Holocaust Denial
By Peter Wensierski and Steffen Winter
Part 3: 'Fever in the Body of the Church'
To avoid misunderstandings, the ultra-conservatives have even hired their own PR specialist, [color="#0000FF"]Rudolph Lobmeyr, who once worked for the Austrian national public broadcaster ORF in Vienna[/color], to explain the benefits of the Pius campaign to the public. [color="#0000FF"]"Fabric-softener faith is no longer wanted," he says. He insists that people are looking for decisive leadership and want to be able to divide the world into good and evil -- just as the SSPX does when it rages against gays, women and journalists. "It's a reflection of the desires of many people, and it's the secret to the society's growing popularity," Lobmeyr says.[/color]
[color="#800080"](The SSPX is the true continuation of catholicism. After WWII and Angelo Roncalli/Vatican II, the church was forced to assume a passive-aggressive stance: instead of ruthlessly declaring it was anti-democratic, absolute in power and judgement and views, it had to feign popular opinion while still inwardly holding resolute to the original and true position of catholicism. Though, as you know, more recently JPII and Ratzy have been slowly undoing the loosening up of catholicism's rigid madness.
In any case, SSPX has continued the church's real character undaunted even in public: it continues to be full-on, True-To-Catholicism aggressive. It has not renounced where catholicism stands on major matters like Jews, women, language of liturgy, holocaust. No doubt SSPX has views on the Right To Inquisition too - one would like to know what those views are. But one can guess. Mascaren~has has indicated them: IIRC he wants Goa or was it all of India Inquisitioned.)[/color]
"We are merely the thermometer indicating the fever in the body of the church," says SSPX leader Bishop Fellay. The society claims to have 600,000 supporters. It maintains six seminaries, 14 districts, 161 priories and 725 mass centers and is active in 1,000 locations worldwide. [color="#FF0000"]The society is growing in the United States, Asia and Africa.[/color]
PHOTO GALLERY
[color="#0000FF"]It was this potential that the pope had in mind when he lifted the excommunications of the four SSPX bishops last year. Benedict is a traditionalist and, like the Pius Brothers, he loves the Latin mass, shares their ideas about morality and sometimes despairs of modern society, which could turn a sentence Williamson uttered on a Swedish television program into a global scandal.[/color]
(The above is Important. Ratzy is a true catholic. Angelo Roncalli of Vatican II aka pope John XXIII is a heretic. I am sure both the recent and last pope considered Roncalli a heretic in private - can't do so in public since he was popular. Ratzy and his predecessor JPII are both conservative catholics - as conservative as SSPX, but the difference is that the latter is public about its conservatism.
It is important to note IMO: they buried JPII's decomposing body where Pope John XXIII's had been buried and moved XXIII "elsewhere". There are two popes called John XXIII - the earlier pope by that title was a known sadist, rapist, and more such stuff, see the catholic encyclopaedia - but I think it was the heretic Angelo Roncalli who got displaced. The reason I think so - and people can correct my logic if I'm wrong - is because rapist pope John XXIII was already officially recognised as an anti-pope and unlikely to be buried where the other popes are. See bottom of this post.)
Fellay reports triumphantly that the pope himself -- in keeping with the SSPX's demands -- apparently no longer places communion wafers into the hands of the faithful, but directly into their mouths. For Fellay, this represents yet another success in the battle against the modern church.
Growing Congregation
It is noon in the more than 700-year-old church of Saint-Nicolas-du-Chardonnet in Paris, which has been occupied by the SSPX since 1977. All masses here are mumbled in accordance with the Latin ritual, accompanied by Gregorian chants, with the priest turning his back on the congregation -- all standard practices for centuries, until the Second Vatican Council destroyed the traditions. A noticeably large number of young people are kneeling on the cold stone floor, and the air is heavy with incense smoke.
The Paris branch of the SSPX has noticed a sharp increase in church attendance since the beginning of last year. The priests have had to increase their weekly supply of communion wafers by 300 wafers, so that there will be enough to place on the tongues of the faithful. Perhaps the Holocaust scandal was responsible for the rise in attendance, or perhaps the new additions to the flock were encouraged by the pope's lifting of the excommunication of the four bishops -- or perhaps both factors played a role.
France is the society's stronghold. It now has 100,000 supporters there, and 4,000 children attend its schools. Traditionalists see the movement as the future of Catholicism.
Strange Ideas
Niklaus Pfluger has just returned from mass at Saint-Nicolas-du-Chardonnet. In the hierarchy of the order, the Swiss priest is second only to Bishop Fellay. When Williamson shocked the church a year ago by denying the Holocaust in an interview, Fellay immediately sent Pfluger to Argentina, where Williamson was staying at the time, to stop the renegade bishop from talking to the media.
Pfluger is still puzzled about the motives of his fellow SSPX member. Sitting in the Bistrot Saint Honoré in Paris, over a plate of mussels and a glass of 2002 Ladoix 1er Cru, he attempts to piece together an explanation. Williamson, he says, happens to be a first-class provocateur and has always had strange ideas. Right away on Sept. 11, 2001, he claimed that the US government had staged the attacks on the World Trade Center in New York. He also claims that it wasn't Japan but the White House that ordered the attack on Pearl Harbor, in an effort to draw the Americans into World War II.
During a sermon in the Canadian province of Quebec in April 1989, Williamson said that the Jews had invented Auschwitz as a way to derive certain benefits. Someone filed a criminal complaint against him, and Williamson has done his best to avoid Quebec ever since.
"He is actually an artist and not a scholar," says Pfluger. "He gets an idea into his head, becomes fixated on it and exaggerates. But he doesn't study the documents." He calls Williamson a "ticking time bomb" for his organization, but he also points out that the bishop has many merits, and that he shouldn't be "exiled to the Moon."
Unpredictable Behavior
Pfluger is also concerned about the health of the 69-year-old bishop, who has apparently had Parkinson's disease for several years. Could this explain his moody, unpredictable behavior? Pfluger and his fellow Pius Brothers have often been irritated by the emails they receive on a regular basis from London. In a recent email, Williamson wrote that "1.3 million deported people" were not gassed in the Treblinka, Majdanek, Belzec and Sobibor concentration camps, but were simply transported to the part of the Soviet Union that was occupied by Germany. Ridiculous rumors to the contrary, Williamson added, should be ignored.
The society is also aware of Williamson's contacts with Ingrid Rimland, the wife of Ernst Zündel, who is currently in a German prison after having been convicted of incitement to Holocaust denial. Rimland continues to disseminate her husband's theories.
The bishop is also in touch via email with Swiss Holocaust denier Jürgen Graf, who is being sought by German, French and Swiss authorities. Graf believes that the idea of extermination camps was a Jewish invention. He plans to publish a new book about the Sobibor extermination camp, where about 250,000 Jews were killed in the gas chambers, entitled "Sobibor. Myth and Reality." Graf says that he hopes Williamson will "write an introduction" to his book.
The priests paid particular attention when Williamson, at the beginning of the year, described his sojourn in London as an "unplanned but pleasant sabbatical." It sounded as if he had had enough of the tennis skirts at Wimbledon, and was ready to start speaking out in public again.
Translated from the German by Christopher Sultan
3. And now finally the more recent news on the matter:
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/...tion=world
Quote:British bishop fined for Holocaust denial
Posted April 16, 2010 23:12:00
Renegade British Catholic bishop Richard Williamson was fined 10,000 euros ($14,500) by a German court Friday for Holocaust denial in a case that has deeply embarrassed the Vatican.
The court in the southern German city of Regensburg convicted Williamson of inciting racial hatred for stating in a television interview aired in January 2009 that only "200,000 to 300,000 Jews perished in Nazi concentration camps".
He also denied the Nazis had used gas chambers.
"The statements by the accused represent a denial of the actions taken under the National Socialist regime," said presiding judge Karin Frahm.
"Bishop Williamson must have assumed that his remarks would draw attention. Williamson knowingly accepted that attention."
[color="#0000FF"]The high-profile proceedings opened Friday without Williamson after his breakaway ultra-conservative Catholic fraternity ordered him not to testify, but he acknowledged the offending comments in a statement read in court.
Williamson gave the interview to a Swedish television crew in Regensburg, so Frahm ruled that Germany's strict laws against disputing the Nazis' slaughter of 6 million Jews during World War II applied to him.[/color]
He was fined 12,000 euros earlier this year over the same case but refused to pay, prompting the new trial.
[color="#0000FF"]The Saint Pius X Society, a Swiss-based Catholic fraternity, appointed Williamson a bishop without the Pope's blessing after it broke away from Rome over the Vatican II reforms introduced in 1965.
Pope Benedict unleashed a deluge of criticism last year for reversing the excommunication of Williamson and three other Saint Pius X Society bishops in a bid to bridge the rift with the fraternity.[/color]
[color="#800080"](Bridge smidge. Enough with the excuses. 1. SSPX was challenging Vatican's authority and legitimacy. The pope in the Vatican can't allow the catholic sheep of the world to get confused as to who is the rightful pope/which is the rightful catholic church now can it?
2. Besides, and more importantly, Herr Pope Ratzy's catholicism is in accord with SSPX. Undoing the excommunication wasn't about bridging any rift - the vatican never before cared about burning all those who disagreed and split, i.e. the heretics. It is because Ratzy's policy for the future of the church - a return to real catholic tradition - is the same as that of SSPX.)[/color]
Williamson's interview was broadcast the day after the papal decree lifting his excommunication but two days before the Pope's decision was made public.
The bishop had also made similar assertions in the past, dismissing records of millions killed in gas chambers as "lies, lies, lies".
- AFP
Catholicism never changes. It fiddles with its self-damning staments and then re-states them in time anyway. Hence it has been re-iterating its verbal anti-semitism. For christianism, non-existent jeebus is important, for which jeebus' death is very important. And for his death, the alleged Jewish guilt is important. And belief in Jewish guilt for non-existent's jeebus death means christos ever hate - and *love* to hate - Jews.
Anyway, as I said somewhere above:
a.There are 2 popes called John XXIII, and the earlier one is recognised as an anti-pope by his own church:
http://freetruth.50webs.org/C2b.htm
Quote:JOHN XXIII 1410-1415 ([color="#FF0000"]John XXIII is not the same as Angelo Roncalli, who got the same number in 1958.)[/color]
This antipope is described by the Catholic Encyclopedia as "utterly worldly-minded, ambitious, crafty, unscrupulous, and immoral, a good soldier but no churchman". Pope John began his career as the pirate Baldassare Cossa, before studying law in Bologna where he became renowned for his gluttony and lechery. After graduating, he was appointed papal treasurer before buying into the College of Cardinals. He became Pope after taking out his predecessor (by poisoning). John was said to be an atheist who had never taken the sacraments, did not believe in the soul's immortality or the resurrection of the dead. He was also known for his taste for nuns.
In 1414, John was summoned before the Council of Constance which was attended by some 2300 noblemen and 18,000 clergy. There he was convicted on charges including the murder of Alexander V, rape, sodomy, incest and piracy and with "having hired and maintained a sacrilegious intercourse with 300 nuns; violated three sisters and imprisoned a whole family in order to abuse the mother, son and father". The Bishop of Salisbury spoke for most when he said John "ought to be burnt at the stake" for his crimes. Nevertheless, Pope John was only removed from his office "as a murderer, sodomite, simoniac and heretic". He pleaded guilty to murder, adultery, incest and atheism, but was later appointed Cardinal Bishop of Tusculum before becoming Dean of the Sacred College in Rome.
I'm surprised the holy church didn't saint him. They've sainted similar christians. Constantine - a santa in the orthodox church, and the hero of all christianism - comes to mind.
b. http://www.sarabite.info/pd-popes.html
Quote:John Paul II did not get all his last requests. It was said he had asked to be buried in the earth; however, the cardinals decided that a choice spot in the Vatican grotto was more appropriate to their latest superstar and he was given the favored spot occupied by John XXIII, who was moved to another location. Truly do the Romans say, "There's nothing so dead as a dead pope."
( Actually read all of the page "Papal Trivia" at http://www.sarabite.info/pd-popes.html
If you didn't already know this stuff, it's very hysterical. It's both true AND hysterical. At the same time. Because it is about important catholic tradition. Which is of course worthy of the greatest ridicule.
Warning: some gross stuff. But that's to be expected. It's facts about christianism, after all.)
Why is this "irrelevant" post here?
- Because Hindus need to know catholicism. You need to know that JPII and Ratzy are *seriously* catholic - the way Vatican II/Roncalli never was. Extremely seriously catholic, the way SSPX is. Even though, unlike SSPX, JPII and Ratzy aren't as public about the mainstream catholic church's conservative position on *all* matters. The point is, they've pushed off Roncalli and his changes, and they've re-embraced (literally and figuratively) SSPX.
And Hindus also need to know that the SSPX-type catholicism (i.e. True, Full catholicism) is growing. And why. And where - the geography.
It is a worry, because this is the *inquisition* type catholicism. No I'm not pasting the above to spook you. Spooks don't exist. These guys do.
- Because (if you didn't already know all the above) you can use it to damn the vituperative Indian christoterrorists who keep falsely calling Hindus "fascists" - their typical exercise of christolying which they use in their attempts to turn the spotlight away from christianism's real and innate fascism. You can use the above links to stuff the christoliars with documented evidence for who the *real* fascists are, as they have always been: christians, starting from the top hierarchy of the catholic church. All catholicism. All christianism itself.
It continues to be a fascist, anti-semitic religion. Capable of genocide, cover-up and denial. And still indulging in these.
http://persecution.in/
[url="http://persecution.in/node/4573"]Jesuit pioneered in rural management remembered[/url]
The great British biologist J.B.S Haldane counted monotheism's creation of fanaticism as one of the most important inventions of the last 5,000 years. Call it love of God or love of group, it matters little in the end.
Nevertheless, all modern missionary-isms, whether religious or in their secular post-Enlightenment guise, preach devotion unto death for the sake of humanity, including allowance for mass killing for the mass good. "The imagination and the spiritual strength of Shakespeare?s evildoers stopped short at a dozen corpses. Because they had no ideology," wrote Alexander Solzhenitsyn in The Gulag Archipelago.
05-08-2010, 01:29 PM
(This post was last modified: 05-08-2010, 01:41 PM by Husky.)
^ The manner of writing didn't seem like GSub to me. And so here's the link for the above material:
worldnews.hometips4u.com/scott-atran-understanding-how-the-privileged-become-violent-fanatics
Scott Atran: Understanding How the Privileged Become Violent Fanatics
1. www.huffingtonpost.com/clay-naff/bible-vs-quran-the-evolut_b_511080.html
Quote:Clay Farris Naff
Science Writer, Editor, Broadcaster, and Blogger
Posted: March 24, 2010 02:12 PM
BIO
Bible Vs. Quran: The Evolution Of Violence In Religion
Barbara Bradley Hagerty, National Public Radio's religion correspondent, ruffled some feathers last week when she posed this question: is the Bible more violent than the Quran?
Religion scholar Phillip Jenkins was on hand to answer that question. No contest, he argues in his new book Jesus Wars. Whereas the violence prescribed in the Quran is mostly defensive [color="#800080"](<img src='http://www.india-forum.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/blink.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':blink:' /> If it isn't jeebus/christian apologetics, it is islamic apologetics - can't one ever be spared both?)[/color], Jenkins says, the Bible is packed with genocidal commands from God. That drew a sputtering response of incredulity from Andrew Bostom, a self-taught scholar of Islam whose writings are most about the malevolence of jihad. "This is just preposterous!" he exclaimed in the same broadcast.
Since most Americans have at most read selected passages of the Bible, I expect they will agree with Bostom. But here are some hard truths: Christianity and Islam are the world's dominant religions because they have used every possible tactic, including large-scale violence and intimidation, to get that way. There are no clean hands in this quarrel.
[color="#800080"]<Snipped apologetics of the type "All religions are evil.">[/color]
To be sure, there are suras in the Quran than can be read as highly aggressive. Take this choice morsel: "Then, when the sacred months have passed -- that is, [at] the end of the period of deferment -- slay the idolaters wherever you find them, be it during a lawful [period] or a sacred [one], and take them captive, and confine them, to castles and forts, until they have no choice except [being put to] death or [acceptance of] Islam; and lie in wait for them at every place of ambush, [at every] route that they use ..." Of course, the passage ends with an offer of mercy if they convert to Islam, but still ...
And yet, consider: Muslims believe the Quran to have been dictated, word by word, by Allah -- that is, God. Taken literally, the above sura amounts to a command to go out and kill or convert nonbelievers every year. How many Muslims actually do that? Not even one in ten thousand, I daresay.
[color="#800080"](Why do these people forget to look at islamania's history to work out "how many muslims do that". Before islamania had conquered ME and Asian lands, that and other Koranic verses/commandments of islam's allah are *exactly* what the faithful muslims of the past carried out, as the faithful today do as well. Eventually they had amassed enough lands and therefore now appear more "settled down" - well, only when compared to those earlier days of continuous invasion and mass-genocide - into a Jihad-When-Necessary/Jihad-When-Ready state.
Besides, islam needs demographics for jihad, so a random headcount of jihadists among the world's ummah is not representative for any kind of meaningful consideration. A better impression is gained by looking in the countries affected by islamism. Dar-ul-islams export jihad. Whereas in those Dar-ul-harbs where islam has reached the necessary percentages, the populations experience jihad. The more favourable the demographics are to islamism, the more continuous the jihad experience.
So one can rather consider the way islam=terrorism makes its presence felt in those places, to get something more representative of what islamism actually is in practice: a reflection of the Koran.)[/color]
Only a minority of Muslims even laud the few who do practice jihadi violence [color="#800080"](and yet, as per news, IIRC entire schools in the Netherlands - islamic schools, from memory - applauded the attack on the WTC)[/color], characterized by the suicide bombing. A 2007 poll of tens of thousands of Muslims in various Middle Eastern countries found support for violent extremism falling even among Palestinians. None of this is meant to dismiss the threat posed by Muslim extremism, which remains all too stark, nor to discount the humdrum violence and oppression that characterize all too much of the Islamic world. Nor do I mean to overlook the violence of Christian extremists such as Scott Roeder, who murdered Dr. Till in church last year.
[color="#800080"](Muslim "extremism" IS islam. It is the non-extremists among muslims that are not following their religion. Islamic extremism is what the koran extols.)[/color]
On the contrary, both Christianity and Islam owe their global success not so much to the magic words in their scriptures as to their effectiveness in practicing forced conversions. [color="#800080"](The practice of which derived from those same "magic words in their scriptures". See said scriptures.)[/color] Oh, yes, we all know about the growth of the Islamic Empire, whose berobed foot-soldiers held a scimitar in one hand and the Quran in the other. But pull that beam out of your eye, dear Christian reader, and remember the Celts, the West Africans, the Indians of the Plains, the Hawaiians, and countless other peoples whose religions and languages were violently suppressed that they might know salvation through "our Lord Jesus Christ."
There are no clean hands in this quarrel.
[color="#800080"](He is speaking of the quarrel within christoislamania. I.e. between christianism and islam.)[/color]
Follow Clay Farris Naff on Twitter: www.twitter.com/claynaff
Instead of excusing islam as not being terrorist/jihadi at core (which it is, see Koran), he can just have said "christianism=islam" and stopped there. That, at least, would have been a point the free/unconverted world wouldn't feel any need to dispute him on.
2. The final line in the following by Dawkins is funny:
newsweek.washingtonpost.com/onfaith/panelists/richard_dawkins/2010/04/everybody_should_be_disinvited.html
Quote:British evolutionary biologist and author Richard Dawkins
Former Professor of the Public Understanding of Science at Oxford; author of "The God Delusion" and "The Greatest Show on Earth."
[color="#800080"](People here might instead be familiar with him from his book "The Selfish Gene".)[/color]
Everybody should be disinvited
Q: Did the Pentagon do the right thing by disinviting evangelist Franklin Graham from a National Day of Prayer event next week? Should government officials decide who can or cannot speak at such an event? Should the government proclaim a National Day of Prayer? Was a federal judge right to rule it unconstitutional?
[color="#800080"](Jeebus-fan Frank Graham said something factual about islam - he hypocritically forgot to include his own christianism - and was referred to the door.)[/color]
The very idea of a National Day of Prayer is unconstitutional, and this has been confirmed by Judge Crabb's landmark ruling in the case brought by the Freedom from Religion Foundation on April 15. Therefore not only should Franklin Graham be disinvited, so should everybody else. Unfortunately, Mr Graham was in fact disinvited for uttering what may well be [color="#0000FF"]the only sensible thing he ever said[/color], namely that Islam is "a very evil and wicked religion."
[color="#800080"](Can't disagree with that excerpted statement by Graham. But one wants the whole truth please. As it stands, the sentence is incomplete: it should end "and so is christianism. They're the same religion, or rather, ideology.")[/color]
3. www.ffrf.org/publications/freethought-today/articles/The-Christianization-of-the-Military/
The Christianization of the (US) Military (2006/2007)
Quote:I do a lot of speaking around the country and was really happy I could be here today. This is the kickoff of the book tour. I know there are a lot of people in the Pentagon who are cringing about my book, With God on Our Side, being released, and I hope they keep cringing for a long time.
Etc.
"Sadly":
www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=10642108&ref=rss
US kids too fat to fight (2010)
Quote:Rising rates of obesity among young Americans could pose a risk to the future of the military, two retired generals are warning.
[...]
They say more than a quarter of American youth are now too fat to fight and that weight is ruling out more potential recruits than any other medical factor.
John ShoreTrying God's patience since 1958
Posted: May 7, 2010 01:43 AM
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Ten Ways Christians Tend to Fail at Being Christian
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Speaking as someone who, well, had the conversion experience 14 years ago that I recounted in "I, a Rabid Anti-Christian, Very Suddenly Convert," we Christians too often fail in these ten ways:
1) Too much money. "Wealthy Christian" should be an oxymoron. In Luke 12:33, Jesus says, "Sell your possessions and give to the poor." In Matthew 19:21, he says, "If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor." In Matthew 6:24, he says, "You cannot serve God and Money." Christians are generally pretty huge on cleaving to the word of God. I just don't see how those particular words could be clearer. (For more on this, see my post "Christians: No Fair Heeding Paul on Gays But Not Jesus on Wealth.")
2) Too confident God thinks we're all that and a leather-bound gift Bible. I'd like to humbly suggest that we spend a little more time wondering how we displease God and a little less time being confident that we do. (See my post "Certainty in Christ: A Blessing and a Curse.")
3) Too quick to believe that we know what God really means by what he says in the Bible. The Bible is an extremely complex, multi-leveled work. We're sometimes too quick to assume that we grasp its every meaning. Take this passage, for instance, from Luke 8: 9-10: "His disciples asked him [Jesus] what this parable [of the sower] meant. He said, 'The knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of God has been given to you, but to others I speak in parables, so that, "though seeing, they may not see; though hearing, they may not understand."'" Huh? And that's Jesus "explaining" what is generally regarded as one of his most readily understood parables! Are we really all that confident that we always know exactly what Jesus meant by everything he said? Wouldn't we do well to sometimes admit that the words attributed to God manifested on earth are just a tad, well, Greek to us? (See my post "The Bible's Two Big Problems.")
4) Too action-oriented. We Christians could stand to spend less time acting in the name of God, and more time reflecting on the (ever subtle) majesty of God. We need more passivity, and less activity. More meditation, less machination. More reflection, less correction. More contemplation, less administration. More prayers, less airs. More mysticism, less ... um ... cretinism. (See my post "Doing Christianity vs. Being Christian.")
5) Too invasive of others generally. It is my personal, humble opinion that anyone seeking to mix church and state has failed to understand the nature and role of either. Being founded upon the principle that all men are created equal and deserving of equal protection under the law is what makes the American system of democracy such a gift to mankind. Attempting to mix the inherently exclusionary imperatives of a particular religion into the resolutely inclusive system of the American constitutional form of government is to work against everything that America stands for. Religion is a personal, subjective affair for the individual; politics and public policy is an impersonal, objective affair for everyone. (See my post "Does the Holy Spirit Vote Republican?")
6) Too invasive of others personally. We Christians are too often too eager to get up into the faces of others about their personal religious beliefs. If you believe in the reality of hell, then wanting to save non-Christians from going there is a worthy sentiment, of course. But the bottom line is it's absolutely impossible to talk someone who isn't a Christian into becoming one; in fact, more than anything else it's likely to push the non-Christian further from God. I believe we Christians would do very well indeed to spend our time "just" living as Christians, and let God worry about the non-Christians. (See my post "What Non-Christians Want Christians to Hear.")
7) Too quick to abandon logic. When talking to others about our faith, we Christians too often resort to a language and line of reasoning that leaves good ol' fashion logic sitting on the ground behind us, waving a sad good-bye. "It's true because the Bible says it's true" is, for instance, an assertion that can't help but leave the non-Christian unimpressed, since it's so manifestly illogical. "It's true because the Bible says it's true" is no more proof of truth than is, "Apples are the best of the fruits, because I think that's true." Christians need to more readily admit that the religious experience -- no matter how riveting and real it is to the person experiencing it -- remains a subjective phenomenon, and talk about it that way. (See my "Let's Be Real: No One 'Walks' and 'Talks' with Jesus.")
8) Too fixated on homosexuality. Can we Christians stop already with the gay and lesbian fixation? I know many of us understand our stance on the matter to be unassailably Biblical. I know a great many of us are deeply concerned about the "homosexual agenda." I know. We all know. Maybe Christians could just give that issue a rest for a while. It's not like gay and lesbian people are going anywhere. They'll all be there when we get back. Maybe -- for just a week, a day, a month -- we could concern ourselves with something else, and let them be. (See my post "Christians: When It Comes to Homosexuality, Man Up.")
9) Too insular. When I became a Christian, one of the things that most amazed me about Christians is the degree to which they tend to hang out only with other Christians. We should stop doing that. How are we supposed to share Christ's love with non-Christians (which we're forever saying we want to do) when we barely know any non-Christians? Time to widen that social base, I say. (Plus, Christian or not, we still want to throw good, fun parties, don't we? Well, let's face it: The heathen class has all the good music. We might as well invite a few of them to our next party. Maybe they'll bring their CD's!) (See my post, "My Answer to Christians Denouncing R. Crumb's "Genesis Illustrated.")
10) Too uneducated about Christianity. Generally speaking (which of course is the most offensive way to speak about any group of people), Christians tend to embarrass themselves by knowing so little about either the Bible or the history of Christianity. Believing that the Bible is the word of God, for instance, is one thing; knowing nothing about the long process by which men decided which texts would and wouldn't make it into the Bible is another. It's not that all Christians should be full-on theologians or historians. But if you're a Christian who doesn't know the Great Schism from The Great Santini, or the Diet of Worms from ... well, the diet of worms, then you've got some homework to do.
MNDC Breaking News
The Stench Of Christian ââ¬ÅExclusivityââ¬Â
I am a Christian. I take great pride in being a follower, as best as I am, of the historical Jesus, who became the Christos. I have made the study of the Bible a life-time adventure, and one amazing adventure it has been. I am not proud though of the historical record of violence, prejudice, and killing thatââ¬â¢s been done in the name of the ââ¬ÅChristian Godââ¬Â.
Arrogance, sectarianism, imperialism, and exclusivity isnââ¬â¢t limited to just Christianity, but I am herein speaking of MY FAITH, not that of others.
I believe the JESUS is ââ¬Åtheââ¬Â WAY and ââ¬Åaââ¬Â way back to the Source from whence we originated. If one is a Christian, then Jesus is ââ¬Åtheââ¬Â way, but itââ¬â¢s an internal path, and inner way, not an outer form of speaking a NAME or confessing some BELIEFS. If one is not a Christian, then there are ââ¬Åother waysââ¬Â as Romans 1:20 speaks. And yet Christians get to heated in defending ââ¬Åtheir beliefsââ¬Â that theyââ¬â¢ll go to no end to uphold them. Be it some insane illogical defense of a verse in the Bible, breaking fellowship with the reprobates who disagree with ââ¬Åtheir truthââ¬Â, or violence, THEIR WAY must be the ONLY WAY!
The hatred and words we speak only do everyone harm!
What is Christian or loving when the head of the Southern Baptist Convention (Jerry Vines) says that Mohammed is a ââ¬Ådemon possessed pedophileââ¬Â? How does it help the cause of the Christos when Franklin Graham calls Islam a ââ¬Åvery evil and wicked religionââ¬Â, or when missionary Jon Hannah, in Iraq of all places, says that ââ¬ÅThe Muslim religion is an antichrist religion.ââ¬Â
The self-serving words and rhetoric that, we have the Truth, with a capital ââ¬ÅTââ¬Â, is a stench in the nostrils of all, including God, for those that put too much of an anthropomorphic emphasis on God who is SPIRIT- not HUMAN!
Religious Right get all fired up over their fantasies
Religious Right get all fired up over their fantasies
By Terry Sanderson
The Christian extremists who are agitating around the country to create the impression that they are being ââ¬Åpersecutedââ¬Â and ââ¬Åmarginalisedââ¬Â have been working overtime in the last few weeks.
On the back of a string of failed court cases involving trumped up, exaggerated cases of supposed religious discrimination, they scream and mewl about their unjust treatment. They appeal and appeal again against these decisions and each time they are thwarted, the caterwauling increases in intensity.
We had hoped that the ruling by Lord Justice Laws in the Court of Appeal last week in the case of Gary McFarlane would have brought the whole charade to a halt. But still the complaining goes on, despite the revelation above that Lord Justice Laws ââ¬Åcould scarcely be more Anglican if he triedââ¬Â.
In Eastbourne last week, about 1,000 of these ââ¬Åpersecutedââ¬Â Christians ââ¬â who looked incredibly relaxed and free considering they are a hounded minority who need to watch their backs in case the militant secularists come to get them ââ¬â gathered in Eastbourne for a conference called Bible by the Beach. It was there, as they enjoyed their weekend by the seaside with lots of praying and hymn singing, that the fantasy that they are poor, oppressed Christians whose religion is being denied full expression was repeatedly reinforced for them. Indeed, they repeatedly said what they say they are not allowed to say. And nobody batted an eyelid.
All the usual suspects were there. Andrea Minichiello Williams, director of the Christian Legal Centre and Christian Concern for our Nation said that the law was ââ¬Åagainstââ¬Â Christians in the workplace and that even where Christians had won their unfair dismissal claims, they had faced hostility from staff on their return to work. (Which cases have they won? We know of none).
ââ¬ÅThe law is being used to oppress,ââ¬Â she said. ââ¬ÅJudges donââ¬â¢t understand that for a Christian, being free doesnââ¬â¢t simply mean being free to think like a Christian. It means that when a Christian goes to work they need to act like a Christian and work like a Christian.ââ¬Â
So what would that mean in practice, Andrea? Christians should be able to do whatever the hell they like at work and damn the consequences for anyone else ââ¬â is that it? Want to take a few hours off for a prayer meeting? Thatââ¬â¢s OK. Want a special room set aside so that you can spend time communing with the Lord? Fine. Want to Bible-bash your colleagues during lunch break and make self-righteous comments about their own life-choices? Go ahead (and if they complain, youââ¬â¢ll want them disciplined for harassing you). Want to bring your hell-bound gay colleagues or living-in-sin colleagues or unmarried mother colleagues to Jesus? Yes, of course, well all know it is for their own good. Feel free to pester them until they come round to your way of thinking.
Ms Minichiello Williams put the wind up her audience by telling them: ââ¬ÅWe are certainly seeing the marginalisation of Christianity. In a biblical interpretation, it could be persecution, not like our brothers and sisters losing their lives in other countries, but the next step is criminalisation.ââ¬Â
Criminalisation? Really? Christianity is about to be outlawed, is it? Is this woman in complete control of her faculties?
The Bishop of Lewes, the Rt Rev Wallace Benn, warned that Christians needed to be aware that ââ¬Årampant, illiberal secularismââ¬Â had become the prevailing attitude in the UK. ââ¬ÅWe need to understand whatââ¬â¢s going on at this moment in time. We are at a very, very tricky point as a nation because there is not a consensus commitment to anything else except hardline illiberal secularism and itââ¬â¢s a very dangerous place to be,ââ¬Â he said.
Dangerous? In what way dangerous? Are British Christians being hauled from their beds in the middle of the night and sent to a gulag? Are there men with coshes waiting to assail anyone caught in a church? What has got into these people?
The conference was joined by Mike Ovey, Principal of Oak Hill Theological College, who said he had been ââ¬Åshockedââ¬Â by the ââ¬Åintellectual incoherenceââ¬Â and ââ¬Ågodlessnessââ¬Â of Lord Justice Lawsââ¬â¢ judgement. He said: ââ¬ÅLord [Justice] Laws also believes something, he fails to see that he has a faith too ... secularism fails to understand that it is a religion.ââ¬Â
He went on to say that Christianity was not only being marginalised in the UK but that there was a ââ¬Ådeeply held antipathyââ¬Â to the Christian faith and that other faiths were being treated more fairly than Christianity.
Iââ¬â¢m sorry to disappoint you, Mike. There is no deep-rooted antipathy to Christianity, only deep-rooted apathy. And from your perspective, that is even more devastating.
Of course, this bunch of deluded activists (who really seem to believe their own propaganda) would be nowhere if it werenââ¬â¢t for newspapers like the Daily Mail and the Daily Telegraph reinforcing the mythology by printing press releases from Christian Concern for our Nation and the Christian Institute almost verbatim and without question. Hopefully these rags will realise eventually that their own integrity is being compromised by the peddling of these half-told and half-true stories.
It is in the blogosphere that you can see what effect this is having on the people in the happy-clappy pews. Here are a few examples of contributions to various Christian blogs:
ââ¬ÅBp Nazir-Ali is correct - faithful Christians are now officially banned from various public positions in the UKââ¬Â
ââ¬ÅBasically it ends freedom of religion in the UK.ââ¬Â
ââ¬ÅChristianity has now effectively been decreed a controlled religion, subservient to the State. Petitioning by Christians could result in arrests. Donââ¬â¢t think the National Secular Society wonââ¬â¢t try it and judges would convict. They have a near 100% conviction rate on Christians.ââ¬Â
ââ¬ÅWhen the State becomes tyrannical, Christians need to consider civil disobedience and be prepared to incur the resultant punishment for so doing.ââ¬Â
ââ¬ÅThis is persecution, without doubt this is persecution.ââ¬Â (Gary McFarlane, the Christian Relate counsellor who was sacked and who lost his case in the Appeal Court last week.)
ââ¬ÅTerrifying as this may seem, the attempt to stamp out Christianity in Britain appears to be gathering pace.ââ¬Â (Melanie Phillips, Daily Mail)
Fri, 07 May 2010
Posted on Sun, May. 9, 2010
Pondering Christianity before Jesus and into the future
Christianity
The First Three Thousand Years
By Diarmaid MacCulloch.
Viking. 1,161 pp. $45
Reviewed by Margaret McGuiness
Readers will perhaps do a double-take at the title of Diarmaid MacCulloch's new book, Christianity: The First Three Thousand Years. The author, professor of the history of the church at Oxford University, chose the subtitle quite deliberately, and asks readers to recognize that Christian ideas "lived" before the appearance of Jesus on the human stage and, at the same time, to consider the future possibilities for Christianity.
Divided into seven sections, Christianity begins with an examination of the religion's roots in Greek philosophy and Judaism. The story begins in Greece, MacCulloch informs us, because "In the beginning was the Word" (John 1:1), the Greek Logos. This phrase, and all that it implies, serves as a reminder of the important role that Greek thought and culture played in the development of Christianity.
Although the religion's roots in Judaism are more evident, the author recounts the story of ancient Israel - its history and its religion - and explains how a small Jewish sect used sacred literature and the stories of the Tanakh, a collection of sacred writings, as it began to develop into a major world religion.
Chapter 3, "A Crucified Messiah," focuses on Jesus, Paul, and the destruction of Jerusalem by the Romans in 70. Although MacCulloch reiterates the importance of Good Friday and Easter Sunday in the development of Christianity, he does not attempt to verify the Resurrection from the perspective of history. Indeed, it is impossible for historians to verify this event, he contends, because "it is a different sort of truth"; it remains, however, the central tenet of the Christian faith.
The author devotes three chapters to explaining the development of Christianity from a small group of believers in Jesus the Christ to a church with prescribed beliefs and a sophisticated organizational structure. Early church leaders built a "Catholic," i.e., universal, faith by determining a canon (a list of sacred texts later generations would know as the Old and New Testaments), creating a ministerial structure (bishops and clergy), and agreeing upon doctrines that defined the beliefs of practicing Christians.
The most controversial doctrinal questions focused on the person and nature of Jesus. What did it mean to be the Son of God and God? How was the Son related to the Father, and how was the Spirit related to both Father and Son?
The answers to these - and related - questions were constructed at a series of church councils beginning in 325. In that year, the Council of Nicea introduced the term homoousia - "one substance" - to Christianity's lexicon. The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are of the same substance, or essence. Discussions on Christology, the study of Jesus as the Christ, culminated at the Council of Chalcedon held in 451. Although important details were left unresolved, participants at Chalcedon accepted an earlier statement issued by Leo the Great, and defined Christ as fully God and fully man, a belief still accepted by Roman Catholics; Greek, Romanian, and Slavic Orthodox; Anglicans; and mainstream Protestants.
MacCulloch does not leave readers with the impression that early church councils led to complete unanimity within Christianity, but includes the stories of churches in the eastern part of the Roman Empire, such as the Egyptian, Syrian, and Armenian, that rejected Chalcedon's faith statement on the nature of Christ.
MacCulloch rightly recognizes the importance of discussing Christianity from the perspective of three major groups: Roman Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, and Protestant, and successfully convinces the reader of the importance of each tradition's role in the larger picture. He weaves their stories together whenever possible; for example, one finds the Crusades in a chapter entitled "Orthodoxy: More Than an Empire." The following chapter, "Russia: The Third Rome," however, is centered primarily on the development of the Eastern church in that country and includes a discussion of the type of Eastern saint known as the Holy Fool, hermits, and the place of Moscow in a church reeling from the loss of Constantinople.
No text purporting to trace the rise and development of a major world religion can do it all, and Christianity is no exception. MacCulloch does at least touch on many important representatives of events, movements, and doctrinal developments. Topics as diverse as the teaching on Purgatory, Eucharistic doctrine, and evangelicalism are explained and placed within the context of major events such as the Reformations (Protestant and Catholic), the Enlightenment, and the culture wars of the 20th and 21st centuries.
In addition, the author attempts to incorporate the role of Christian women into the larger history, and includes figures as diverse as the mystic Teresa of Avila; Angela Merici, foundress of the Ursuline nuns, the first active women's religious community; and English Protestant feminist Mary Astell.
MacCulloch is not afraid to tackle topics that present Christianity in a somewhat unfavorable light. Sexuality and the reluctance of Christian churches to condemn the institution of slavery are discussed from the perspective of a professional historian, and readers will not be subject to polemics on issues that are or have been controversial in organized Christian denominations.
One caution for those interested in exploring McCulloch's work: This book is not light summer beach reading. Indeed, at more than 1,000 pages, it would not be easy to carry from home to the beach!
Despite its size, however, Christianity: The First Three Thousand Years is an excellent book, and I suspect it will quickly become the go-to book for those seeking information on this major world religion.
http://www.milapindia.blogspot.com/
Desi guy involved in Church planting. The missionary zeal these guys have is amazing. A constant battle for Ekal Vidyalaya types.
http://www.puritanboard.com/f34/america-...post673567
I spent Sunday think about Christians :-)) I started looking at "Christian Bhajans" and it led me to the puritan board. Look at the conversations & ignorance. Yet like the Pakistanis they have the audacity to launch missions into India and plant churches, where Porkis launch blasting devices.
Guess which group is ardently supporting the caste based census..
http://www.sakaaltimes.com/SakaalTimesBe...um=twitter
Kind of explains why caste was included in census in a hurried manner
05-18-2010, 03:24 PM
(This post was last modified: 05-18-2010, 03:30 PM by Husky.)
[quote name='Niki' date='18 May 2010 - 04:23 AM' timestamp='1274136332' post='106425']
Guess which group is ardently supporting the caste based census..
http://www.sakaaltimes.com/SakaalTimesBe...um=twitter
Kind of explains why caste was included in census in a hurried manner
[/quote]Why not paste it in full?
Quote:Christians hail caste inclusion in census
CAMIL PARKHE
Thursday, May 13, 2010 AT 01:23 PM (IST)
Tags: CBCI, catholic church, caste, census
PUNE: The Catholic Bishops Conference of India (CBCI), the apex body of the Catholic Church in the country, has welcomed the governmentââ¬â¢s willingness to include caste in the national census.
The CBCI has said that the move will facilitate identification of the dalit Christians - the erstwhile untouchables converted to Christianity - and help them get benefits extended to dalits belonging to other religions.
In an interview to a Christian website, Fr Babu Joseph, CBCI spokesperson, welcomed the Centreââ¬â¢s proposal and said that since caste remains a social reality, there should be the ââ¬Åactual picture of people belonging to a particular caste.ââ¬Â However, such data should be used for ââ¬Ëour long term aim of removing casteââ¬â¢ from society, he said.
The Church, which does not endorse casteism in its community, however recognises existence of dalits in its fold and has been demanding that they should be given all the concessions given to dalit Sikhs and Buddhists.
Fr Malcolm Sequeira, spokesperson of Pune diocese, has said that mere religious conversion does not bring any changes into the socio-economic status of the dalits. Therefore, dalit Christians should not be discriminated on the grounds of their religion. Fr Sequeira said that the census form should have two separate columns for caste and religions, so that even dalit Christians or dalits of any religion may be able to specify their caste as well as religion.
Tribals from northeastern states converted to Christianity continue to get quota meant for scheduled tribes even after conversion. This benefit is not extended to the dalits Christians, formerly belonging to various scheduled castes.
And the bold bit is the reason why Vatican plant Sonia and her christogovt are pushing for the christocasta census at all.
Hindus ought to entirely boycott paying taxes and obeying the christogovt in any of its christolaws. This is an alien govt. It is christian. And it will destroy Hindus. And all Dharmics of Bharatam.
Obeying it is the same as obeying the British. Hindus ought to fight for independence from the alien govt that cheated to stay in power.
And boycott all of christianism and islamism, such as by not shopping in their stores, etc.
Don't feed the parasite. It may yet die without the host foolishly keeping it alive.
Hindus ought to use their tax money - that would be stolen to fund the treacherous christoterrorists - to privately support Hindu Temples (large Hindu Temples have supported mass-feeding of Hindu poor for a long time, and Hindu religious organisations conduct mass-marriages of poor Hindu couples who could not afford it. To protect Hindu Temples is to aid the less-fortunate Hindus).
Hindus ought to wrest all Hindu temples from the anti-Hindu 'Indian' govt. It is not a govt of the people, it is inimical to the population. Hindus should recognise the Constantinian (christian) govt of India as the #1 enemy of Hindus.
Hindus should stop being fooled by the sham "democracy" - the latter word keeps them blind from seeing the predator and inactive towards it. The christian govt is cancer.
It is very late. Ought not make it later still. Free Bharatam. <- Should be the only thought in Dharmics minds. Free Bharatam from the christian canker.
05-19-2010, 10:39 AM
(This post was last modified: 05-19-2010, 10:42 AM by agnivayu.)
Remember, Christians are strongly caste (to be precise casta) based. Note that the first use of the word caste by the British in India was to denote the half-caste known as Anglo-Indian. They called them a caste as they didn't feel they were "pure" enough to enter "White" British clubs/houses etc..
I read a story about a Anglo-Indian dentist in the 1920's who "looked" White but was afraid of people finding out about his Indian blood, as this would put him at a lower caste than the Whites and therefore damage his career.
Anglo-Saxon castes also practiced a rigid form of untouchability. However, untouchability and caste practices were most rigid and potent in the United States and South Africa. Due to Western Christian "pollution" rules, drinking fountains were not shared by upper caste Whites until late 1960's well after Hindu's abolished caste based discrimination. Copying the highly civilized culture of Hindus, Affirmative Action was adopted in the U.S. as well.
In Medieval Christian Europe, caste systems were very rigid, The lowest caste's were called serfs who were kept in their place, above them were merchants and craftsmen castes. Many people of European ancestry still have last names denoting such castes, example cooper is a barrel maker caste, carpenter, potter, smith etc.. In Germany Schwarzenegger is a blacksmith caste, Zimmerman is a carpenter caste. Above them were the Knight warrior castes. Above them were the Priests and Nobles. The British, Canadian, and Australian head of State is from the Royal family caste of UK. This is the one of the last remaining caste based head of state. Also British Christians have rigid caste and class hierarchy. Ex: The landed gentry caste (Recently elected Cameron for example) are viewed with suspicion by the lower caste's in UK due to their prior privileged status.
Above all casta is a Portuguese/Spanish word, hence Caste is primarily a Western school of thought. The Christian and Muslim slave system was far worse than anything that existed in the world (and far worse than even their caste systems). It's horrendous Brutality and murderous nature is unparalleled in human history.
05-19-2010, 05:47 PM
(This post was last modified: 05-19-2010, 08:56 PM by Husky.)
Continued from ~5 posts above.
http://apostlethomasindia.wordpress.com/...b-r-haran/
via http://rajeev2004.blogspot.com/2010/05/c...vious.html
Quote:ââ  2 ââ¬â Mythical Thomas, Devious Deivanayagam, and Conniving Church ââ¬â B.R. Haran
3 ââ¬â Mythical Thomas, Devious Deivanayagam, and Conniving Church ââ¬â B.R. Haran
May 15, 2010
Tamil Hindus must understand that the Church is frustrated at the decimation of LTTE and would get back with more vigour and venom, applying different strategies. Tamil Hindus are certainly in for tougher and troubled times. The onus lies on the various Hindu organizations to rise to the occasion and thwart all attempts made by alien and chauvinistic forces.
[image caption:] Kapaleeswara Temple, Mylapore, Chennai.
The Sri Lankan connection
Late last month, Deivanayagam proclaimed in an interview to Tamil biweekly Nakkeeran that and his supporters would storm into the Kapaleeswarar Temple and capture it, as it was constructed on the ruins of a Church, which allegedly stood at the site centuries ago! As a first step, he has organized a ââ¬Åhunger strikeââ¬Â with hand-picked supporters on May 2, 2010. His further plans include:
[color="#0000FF"]May 10 ââ¬â 20: workshop for volunteers to involve them in the forthcoming protest.
May 23: march from Thiruvalluvar Temple, Mylapore, to Santhome Basilica and Kapaleeswarar Temple; public meeting near temple.
June 13: storming and entering sanctum sanctorum of Kapaleeswarar Temple and Santhome Church to perform pujas and conduct prayers.[/color]
[image caption:] San Thome Cathedral, Mylapore, Chennai.
Deivanayagam claims to have conducted a meeting uniting three categories of people namely, Tamil-Hindus who have got liberated from enslaving Brahminical thoughts; Tamil-Hindus who have got liberated from enslaving European Christian thoughts; and Tamil-Hindus who follow atheism, on December 27, 2009, under the aegis of Federation of All Self-Respecting Tamils. This was followed by a meeting on February 27, 2010, wherein they resolved to liberate Kapaleeswarar Temple from Brahmin priests through various agitations.
Deivanayagam claims the present Santhome Church was originally a Shiva temple built on the grave of St. Thomas and that the present Kapaleeswara Temple was originally a church!
[color="#800080"](Always beware when a church admits to a truth - such as the above one that the santhome church was a Shiva temple. It will only (finally) admit to a truth if it can somehow stab heathens with it: Hindus in this case. They will take Kapaleeshwarar - probably cryptochristists have planted some fake christorelics as "evidence" somewhere that this christoterrorist will 'unveil' as a 'discovery'. And then Hindus will neither get the old Temple site back that was stolen by the santhome church NOR will the christians/zombies allow Hindus to keep the present Kapaleeshwarar Kovil.)[/color]
The inclusion of Santhome Church in the protest march and storming entry agitation is just a ploy to show he is also against the Church. He pretends he is not a Christian and that he practices only ââ¬ÅTamil Religionââ¬Â (Thamizh Samayam, or, Thomas Christianity). But the fact remains that the Mylapore Archdiocese (present head Archbishop Chinnappa) has stood solidly behind all his activities for more than 30 years. The very fact that he is able to peddle nonsensical theories, author books on the same, and print and publish them without any known sources of income for over three decades confirms that the [color="#FF0000"]Catholic Church is backing him.[/color]
[color="#800080"](His role is comparable to that of a Jesuit Temporal Coadjutor: on the outside he pretends to be unaffiliated to the Catholic Church and especially against it. But really, he is working for it, trying to push the heathens in from the Other Side.)[/color]
On March 27, 2010, he wrote to the Chief Minister requesting him to liberate Kapaleeswarar Temple from Brahmin priests which would have special significance to the World Classical Tamil Conference. Copies were marked to Minister and Commissioner of [color="#0000FF"]HR & CE Department[/color].
[color="#800080"](HR&CE is the anti-Hindu govt body that has taken control of the Temples of Tamizh Nadu, and which was last seen trying to take over the Kovil of ChidambaraNatha=Nataraja too.)[/color]
The same day, he shot off letters to Archbishop of Mylapore and Head Priest of Kapaleeswarar Temple conveying his plans to [color="#FF0000"]storm[/color] both Santhome Basilica and the Temple.
On April 2, he wrote to Tamil Nadu BJP President Pon. Radhakrishnan of his plans to [color="#FF0000"]storm[/color] the temple.
[color="#800080"](Hindus have the right to reciprocate in pre-emption: the right to storm him, his goons and all their family if they come anywhere near the Kovil.)[/color]
[color="#FF0000"][image caption] Chief Minister Karunanidhi gets an award from Catholic bishops for bashing Hindus.[/color]
[color="#800080"](Yet one will hear Indoos declare that Karunanidhi is not a cryptochristian but an "atheist". Sure he is. Keep believing it.)[/color]
On April 18, he wrote to the Chief Minister reminding him of his previous letter and demands. He urged the Chief Minister to appoint unbiased scholars as interlocutors to conduct his proposed dialogues with the Church and Temple authorities. Copies were marked to Mylapore Archbishop, Templeââ¬â¢s Head Priest, HR & CE Department and others.
On April 16, he wrote to the Commissioner of Police requesting permission to for a hunger strike near Rajarathinam Stadium on May 2, which was permitted. Previously, when he sought to conduct a demonstration on April 14, against the Brahmin community, the police refused permission citing law and order problems.
On April 22, he again wrote to the Archbishop and Templeââ¬â¢s Head Priest that he had informed the Chief Minister and other authorities of his plan of action. He mentioned that the Archbishop of Mylapore had agreed for talks and asked the Head Priest to reply at the earliest.
[color="#FF0000"]As mentioned in the police complaint lodged by Hindu activists on May 3, 2010, Deivanayagam has a notorious track record of virulent anti-Hindu activities for over 30 years. Deivanayagam takes advantage of the tolerance shown by Hindus, who have also made the mistake of ignoring him for many years. The hunger strike conducted by him and Seeman indicates a new trend ââ¬â the development of an unholy nexus between Christianity and Tamil Chauvinism. This combination, in the absence of the Sri Lankan Tamil issue, will seek to destabilize society by playing ââ¬Åcaste-cardsââ¬Â and ââ¬ÅTamil-cardsââ¬Â, both aimed at Hindus.[/color]
[color="#800080"](Tamil "chauvinism" is christianism by another name. Because Tamizh IS Hindu.
Chauvinism is the hijacking of Tamizhs' intrinsic Hindu identity by first taking them to an intermediary place: that of the unreligious virulent anti-Hindu state. From there they are always inducted into christoterrorism.
The massive problem with Indoos - especially the ones that congratulate themselves on being clever - is that they always ignore christianism. Christianism is THE MOST DANGEROUS threat to Bharatam - definitely to Hindu Dharma in the subcontinent. Not even islam comes that close.)[/color]
Tamil Nadu & Sri Lanka.
This must be seen in the backdrop that the Church has a longstanding agenda of forming a ââ¬ÅTamil Christian Nationââ¬Â comprising Tamil Nadu and North-East Sri Lanka. In fact, it is well established that ââ¬ÅTamil Eelamââ¬Â itself is a Christian agenda.
As observed by Radha Rajan, Editor, www.vigilonline.com ââ¬ÅThis new convergence of interest between Deivanayagam and the violent Tamil extremists like Seeman is a new trend and is headed only in this direction:
* The Sri Lankan Tamil issue is for now over. The extermination of the LTTE has denied the violent Tamil extremists in TN all avenues for creative self-expression and has brought their political career to an abrupt end. The Tamil extremists in TN and Sri Lanka in turn play the roles of engine and coach. Whenever the LTTE found the going tough for them in Sri Lanka they hitched themselves to the ideological engine in TN to keep themselves going. Whenever the LTTE gained in strength in Sri Lanka, the Tamil extremists in TN hitched themselves to the militarily powerful LTTE engine. It has been a mutually profitable association for both sides.
* The Sri Lankan Tamil Diaspora in the US, Canada and Europe funded the extremists in both countries generously as did all Church denominations in Sri Lanka, America and Europe. Now that the Tamil Diaspora is scattered in North America and Europe and the TN extremists have been deprived of their military might and the LTTE decimated in Sri Lanka, one leg of the Tamil tripod ââ¬â LTTE, TN Tamil extremists and the Tamil Diaspora ââ¬â has been sawed off. The TN leg is shaking, while the Diaspora leg even if it is strong in itself, cannot support the tripod alone.
* The idea is to strengthen the shaking TN leg and inject blood into a lifeless limb. The only way to keep the idea of the Christian state of Tamil Eelam alive is to keep the pot boiling in TN ââ¬â keep this violent constituency united on an issue and keep them from being scattered. If there is one thing all Dravidians have in common, it is their congenital anti-Hindu hatred. Karunanidhi may find Tamil extremism in TN courts difficult to explain to judges here and in Delhi, but he can point the blood-thirsty ghouls in the direction of TNââ¬â¢s Hindus to turn them away from the police and the government.
* So, in the guise of Tamil pride, the violent Seeman, Thol Thirumalvalavan, Pazha Nedumaran and other erstwhile LTTE acolytes are now being actively courted by Christian Tamil priests to take up the cause of demanding that all castes be allowed to enter the sanctum sanctorum of all TN temples to offer poojas.
* TNââ¬â¢s Hindu organizations have long disappeared from public life and the field is empty of all protest and challenge. The TN government and the Church have nothing to lose and everything to gain by pointing this violent group in the direction of Hindus and Hindu temples.
* They stand to gain if the Dravidian parties abjure separatism and seek a huge bite in the Delhi pie; they stand equally to gain if the church succeeds in realizing the Christian state of Tamil Eelam from out of TN and the north and east of Sri Lanka. They may even concede their own Pakistan in Amparai if the Christian state of Eelam comes into being.ââ¬Â
* When the Eelam War-IV was at its peak and LTTE was getting decimated, Theivanayagam planned a demonstration at Memorial Hall in Chennai on April 7, 2009, in the name of ââ¬ÅThamizh Eezham Vendi Thamizhar Samaya Maanaaduââ¬Â (Tamil Religious Conference Demanding Tamil Eelam). But police refused permission. In the literatures prepared for the conference, he claimed:
* Sri Lanka connected with Tamil Nadu was a part of Kumari Kandam (Continent of Kumari aka Lemuria) before it was separated by Tsunami.
* Eelam Tamils are original inhabitants of Sri Lanka; Sinhalese migrated from India during the time of Emperor Ashoka; the Tamil indentured labourers were sent by British government from India
* Sinhala Buddhists are persecuting Eelam Tamils and the birth of Tamil Eelam is the only solution.
* [color="#FF0000"]Tamil Eelam and Tamil Nadu will together constitute Tamil Nation via Thomas Christianity, which is the religion of Tamils.[/color]
This will help readers to understand the association of Tamil chauvinist and LTTE supporter Seeman with Christian Deivanayagam. We learn that Pazha Nedumaran, president, Tamil Nationalist Movement, and a known LTTE supporter, pulled out from participating in the event at the last minute.
Cross with hidden knife: Tamils beware of this venomous Church that is conniving with a mad prophet.
Conclusion
Tamil Hindus must understand that the Church is frustrated at the decimation of LTTE and would get back with more vigour and venom, applying different strategies. Tamil Hindus are certainly in for tougher and troubled times. The onus lies on the various Hindu organizations to rise to the occasion and thwart all attempts made by alien and chauvinistic forces.
Hindus missed the opportunity first when Arulappa and Acharya Paul were fighting in court; they missed a second chance when Dharmapuram Adheenam demolished the perverted distortions of Deivanayagam; they missed a third opportunity when Deivanayagam organized a four-day conference hosted by Mylapore Archdiocese.
Here is yet another chance, which must be utilized at any cost. Deivanayagamââ¬â¢s theories are not only anti-Hindu but also anti-national. Lumpen elements like Deivanayagam and Seeman are a serious threat to communal harmony and national integration. Criminal complaints have to be registered demanding immediate police action. His premises must be raided, blasphemous books and materials confiscated, and financial sources screened.
The role played by the Catholic Church in backing him must be investigated. Simultaneously, watertight legal cases have to be filed to expose their nefarious activities and to assert the real identity and true history, and safeguard our temples and culture. Conferences and public meetings must be organized throughout the state to tell people the true story of Mylapore and the sham story of Santhome.
This is a perfect opportunity to demolish the so-called Thomas story once and for all!
Concluded
B.R. Haran is a senior journalist in Chennai
Images added by blog editor
St. Thomas in India Research Resources:
Acta Indica: The St. Thomas in India Swindle http://apostlethomasindia.wordpress.com
The Ishwar Sharan Archive http://hamsa.org
The St. Thomas Teller http://the-st-thomas-teller.blogspot.com
The earlier two articles in the series (I haven't read all of them yet):
- Part 1: http://apostlethomasindia.wordpress.com/...b-r-haran/
- Part 2: http://apostlethomasindia.wordpress.com/...b-r-haran/
1. The writer - Haran - like the rest of the gang he's part of, sadly only ever blames "the Church" and never the root cause christianism itself (as if the church and christians are not the implementing arm of the otherwise-bodiless christianism meme). Why do the vocalising (angelsk-speaking) Hindus continue to delude other Hindus in this extremely dangerous manner?
2. Christianism has already been working to undermine traditional Kovil proceedings at Chidambaram.
They have plonked a statue of that anti-Hindu EeveeAre or something in front of I think the Ranganatha's Sri Rangam Kovil.
And they have violated the continuity of the Ramarsethu.
Now they are targetting Kapaleeshwarar Kovil.
It is NOT coincidence. It is CHRISTIANISM.
I expect absolutely nothing from the nationalists who at best will have all the wrong reasons to involve themselves with Hindu Temples. (Those with wrong reasons can stay away. The ONLY reason to get involved is for the love of the Gods themselves. The Hindu Gods are not 'culture' or 'heritage'. And their Temples are not 'culture', 'heritage' or 'civilisation'. <- These are words that create invisibility for the Gods and trivialise and universalise them. That's how the evil christogovt was able to commandeer the Kovils as being "Indian" to 'administer' them. They are NOT merely 'Indian'. They are not 'culture'. They are Hindu, they are sacred Hindu constructions to the eternal and sacred Hindu Gods built on the sacred Hindu sites where the Gods dwell, belonging to the Hindus of Bharatam. And absolutely no one else.)
3. If Deivanakam and his fellow christists (and any undeclared 'Indian' protesting against Kapaleeshwarar and His Kovil's traditional way of functioning *are* blatant christians even if they play at cryptochristianism)
if any christists come anywhere near Kapaleeshwarar Kovil - or any Mandiram anywhere in Bharatam for that matter - it must be taken as an act of aggression against Hindus' Gods (*all* the Hindu Gods are Hindus' own Parents) and therefore against Hindus themselves. Hindus have a RIGHT TO KILL for that.
Christists should stay away from our Gods/Temples if they don't want to die. Bunch of terrorists.
They ought to remember to Let Sleeping Dogs Lie.
Why do Hindus still stand christians in our country. Just send them all off on a one-way-flight to TSP where they will get their heavenly reward courtesy of their similar-minded best friends: their brethren the islamaniacs. Everyone happy.
Quote:Maharashtra seeks Facebook ban
CITHARA PAUL
New Delhi, May 25: The Maharashtra government has asked the Centre about the possibility of blocking social networking site Facebook following such a demand from Muslim and Christian organisations.
Muslim and Christian leaders have themselves jointly written to the Prime Minister, Sonia Gandhi and the Union home ministry demanding immediate action against Facebook for displaying ââ¬Åblasphemousââ¬Â pages.
The Pakistan government, following a Lahore High Court order, has blocked Facebook for inviting its members to post caricatures deemed blasphemous.
Christian groups such as the Catholic Secular Forum (CSF) are upset over various Facebook pages on Jesus Christ and Christianity.
The Maharashtra additional chief secretary (home), Chandra Iyengar, has written to Union home secretary G.K. Pillai requesting a ban on Facebook, if possible. A copy of the letter has been sent to the Indian Computer Emergency Response Team, a division of the information and technology ministry.
ââ¬ÅWe want the government to block Facebook for its irresponsible action. If the government does not act promptly, we will be left with no option but to take to the streets,ââ¬â¢Ã¢â¬â¢ said Sohail Rokadia of the Raza Academy.
The academy, a prominent Mumbai-based Sunni organisation, has taken the matter up jointly with the CSF.
ââ¬ÅThe CSF believes that blasphemous pages on any religion should be taken off the website. Several pages on Facebook are worse than the pages that are being objected to by Muslims across the world,ââ¬Â said John Dias of the CSF.
ââ¬ÅWe call upon Facebook to tender an unconditional apology for hurting the religious sentiments of millions of followers of different faiths. Such blasphemous material on the Internet has dangerous law-and-order consequences, particularly in the East. It disturbs peace and harmony in an already communally sensitive situation.ââ¬Â
http://telegraphindia.com/1100526/jsp/na...488838.jsp
It should be good if all sites and networks will use such cartoons.Hopefully,the terrorist religions will not use the internet anymore to spread their ideas.
Quote:Catholic Secular
Isn't it a oxymoron? Like 'Pakistani Intelligence'
Would these so called 'secular' groups support a ban on M F Hussain? Wonder why not?
Look what is happening in TN
http://www.hindujagruti.org/news/9444.html
Mythical Thomas, Devious Theivanayagam and Conniving Church - 3
May 24, 2010
Nija Vaishakh Shuddha Ekadashi, Kaliyug Varsha 5112
Read Here : Part 1 of the Article
Read Here : Part 2 of the Article
By B R Haran
The Sri Lankan connection
Late last month, Theivanayagam proclaimed in an interview to Tamil biweekly Nakkeeran that and his supporters would storm into the Kapaleeswarar Temple and capture it, as it was constructed on the ruins of a Church, which allegedly stood at the site centuries ago! As a first step, he has organized a ââ¬Ëhunger strikeââ¬â¢ with hand-picked supporters on May 2, 2010. His further plans include:
- May 10 ââ¬â 20: workshop for volunteers to involve them in the forthcoming protest.
- May 23: march from Thiruvalluvar Temple, Mylapore, to Santhome Basilica and Kapaleeswarar Temple; public meeting near temple.
- June 13: storming and entering sanctum sanctorum of Kapaleeswarar Temple and Santhome Church to perform pujas and conduct prayers.
Theivanayagam claims the present Santhome Church was originally a Shiva Temple built on the cemetery of St. Thomas and that the present Kapaleeswarar Temple was originally a Church! The inclusion of Santhome Church in the ââ¬Ëprotest marchââ¬â¢ and ââ¬Ëstorming entryââ¬â¢ agitation is just a ploy to show he is also against the Church. He pretends he is not a Christian and that he practices only ââ¬ÅTamil Religionââ¬Â (Thamizh Samayam, or, Thomas Christianity). But the fact remains that the Mylapore Archdiocese (present head Archbishop Chinnappa) has stood solidly behind all his activities for more than 30 years. The very fact that he is able to peddle nonsensical theories, author books on the same and print and publish them without any known sources of income for over three decades confirms that the Catholic Church is backing him.
Theivanayagam claims to have conducted a meeting uniting three categories of people namely, Tamil-Hindus who have got liberated from enslaving Brahminical thoughts; Tamil-Hindus who have got liberated from enslaving European Christian thoughts; and Tamil-Hindus who follow atheism, on December 27, 2009, under the aegis of ââ¬ÅFederation of All Self-Respecting Tamils.ââ¬Â This was followed by a meeting on February 27, 2010, wherein they resolved to liberate Kapaleeswarar Temple from Brahmin priests through various agitations.
On March 27, 2010, he wrote to the Chief Minister requesting him to liberate Kapaleeswarar Temple from Brahmin priests which would have special significance to the World Classical Tamil Conference. Copies were marked to Minister and Commissioner of HR & CE Department. The same day, he shot off letters to Archbishop of Mylapore and Head Priest of Kapaleeswarar Temple conveying his plans to storm both Santhome Basilica and the Temple.
On April 2, he wrote to Tamil Nadu BJP President Pon. Radhakrishnan of his plans to storm the temple.
On April 18, he wrote to the Chief Minister reminding him of his previous letter and demands. He urged the Chief Minister to appoint unbiased scholars as interlocutors to conduct his proposed dialogues with the Church and Temple authorities. Copies were marked to Mylapore Archbishop, Templeââ¬â¢s Head Priest, HR & CE Department and others.
On April 16, he wrote to the Commissioner of Police requesting permission to for a hunger strike near Rajarathinam Stadium on May 2, which was permitted. Previously, when he sought to conduct a demonstration on April 14, against the Brahmin community, the police refused permission citing law and order problems.
On April 22, he again wrote to the Archbishop and Templeââ¬â¢s Head Priest that he had informed the Chief Minister and other authorities of his plan of action. He mentioned that the Archbishop of Mylapore had agreed for talks and asked the Head Priest to reply at the earliest.
As mentioned in the police complaint lodged by Hindu activists on May 3, 2010, Theivanayagam has a notorious track record of virulent anti-Hindu activities for over 30 years. Theivanayagam takes advantage of the tolerance shown by Hindus, who have also made the mistake of ignoring him for many years. The hunger strike conducted by him and Seeman indicates a new trend - the development of an unholy nexus between Christianity and Tamil Chauvinism. This combination, in the absence of the Sri Lankan Tamil issue, will seek to destabilize society by playing ââ¬Åcaste-cardsââ¬Â and ââ¬ÅTamil-cardsââ¬Â, both aimed at Hindus.
This must be seen in the backdrop that the Church has a longstanding agenda of forming a ââ¬ÅTamil Christian Nationââ¬Â comprising Tamil Nadu and North-East Sri Lanka. In fact, it is well established that ââ¬ÅTamil Eelamââ¬Â itself is a Christian agenda.
As observed by Radha Rajan, Editor, www.vigilonline.com: ââ¬ÅThis new convergence of interest between Theivanayagam and the violent Tamil extremists like Seeman is a new trend and is headed only in this direction -
- The Sri Lankan Tamil issue is for now over. The extermination of the LTTE has denied the violent Tamil extremists in TN all avenues for creative self-expression and has brought their political career to an abrupt end. The Tamil extremists in TN and Sri Lanka in turn play the roles of engine and coach. Whenever the LTTE found the going tough for them in Sri Lanka they hitched themselves to the ideological engine in TN to keep themselves going. Whenever the LTTE gained in strength in Sri Lanka, the Tamil extremists in TN hitched themselves to the militarily powerful LTTE engine. It has been a mutually profitable association for both sides.
- The Sri Lankan Tamil Diaspora in the US, Canada and Europe funded the extremists in both countries generously as did all Church denominations in Sri Lanka, America and Europe. Now that the Tamil Diaspora is scattered in North America and Europe and the TN extremists have been deprived of their military might and the LTTE decimated in Sri Lanka, one leg of the Tamil tripod - LTTE, TN Tamil extremists and the Tamil Diaspora ââ¬â has been sawed off. The TN leg is shaking, while the Diaspora leg even if it is strong in itself, cannot support the tripod alone.
- The idea is to strengthen the shaking TN leg and inject blood into a lifeless limb. The only way to keep the idea of the Christian state of Tamil Eelam alive is to keep the pot boiling in TN - keep this violent constituency united on an issue and keep them from being scattered. If there is one thing all Dravidians have in common, it is their congenital anti-Hindu hatred. Karunanidhi may find Tamil extremism in TN courts difficult to explain to judges here and in Delhi, but he can point the blood-thirsty ghouls in the direction of TN's Hindus to turn them away from the police and the government.
- So, in the guise of Tamil pride, the violent Seeman, Thol Thirumalvalavan, Pazha Nedumaran and other erstwhile LTTE acolytes are now being actively courted by Christian Tamil priests to take up the cause of demanding that all castes be allowed to enter the sanctum sanctorum of all TN temples to offer poojas.
- TN's Hindu organizations have long disappeared from public life and the field is empty of all protest and challenge. The TN government and the Church have nothing to lose and everything to gain by pointing this violent group in the direction of Hindus and Hindu temples.
- They stand to gain if the Dravidian parties abjure separatism and seek a huge bite in the Delhi pie; they stand equally to gain if the church succeeds in realizing the Christian state of Tamil Eelam from out of TN and the north and east of Sri Lanka. They may even concede their own Pakistan in Amparai if the Christian state of Eelam comes into being.ââ¬Â
When the Eelam War-IV was at its peak and LTTE was getting decimated, Theivanayagam planned a demonstration at Memorial Hall in Chennai on April 7, 2009, in the name of ââ¬ÅThamizh Eezham Vendi Thamizhar Samaya Maanaaduââ¬Â (Tamil Religious Conference Demanding Tamil Eelam). But police refused permission. In the literatures prepared for the conference, he claimed:
- Sri Lanka connected with Tamil Nadu was a part of Kumari Kandam (Continent of Kumari aka Lemuria) before it was separated by Tsunami.
- Eelam Tamils are original inhabitants of Sri Lanka; Sinhalese migrated from India during the time of Emperor Ashoka; the Tamil indentured labourers were sent by British government from India
- Sinhala Buddhists are persecuting Eelam Tamils and the birth of Tamil Eelam is the only solution.
- Tamil Eelam and Tamil Nadu will together constitute Tamil Nation via Thomas Christianity, which is the religion of Tamils.
This will help readers to understand the association of Tamil chauvinist and LTTE supporter Seeman with Christian Theivanayagam. We learn that Pazha Nedumaran, president, Tamil Nationalist Movement, and a known LTTE supporter, pulled out from participating in the event at the last minute.
Conclusion
Tamil Hindus must understand that the Church is frustrated at the decimation of LTTE and would get back with more vigour and venom, applying different strategies. Tamil Hindus are certainly in for tougher and troubled times. The onus lies on the various Hindu organizations to rise to the occasion and thwart all attempts made by alien and chauvinistic forces.
Hindus missed the opportunity first when Arulappa and Acharya Paul were fighting in court; they missed a second chance when Dharmapuram Adheenam demolished the perverted distortions of Theivanayagam; they missed a third opportunity when Theivanayagam organized a four-day conference hosted by Mylapore Archdiocese.
Here is yet another chance, which must be utilized at any cost. Theivanayagamââ¬â¢s theories are not only anti-Hindu but also anti-national. Lumpen elements like Theivanayagam and Seeman are a serious threat to communal harmony and national integration. Criminal complaints have to be registered demanding immediate police action. His premises must be raided, blasphemous books and materials confiscated, and financial sources screened.
The role played by the Catholic Church in backing him must be investigated. Simultaneously, watertight legal cases have to be filed to expose their nefarious activities and to assert the real identity and true history, and safeguard our temples and culture. Conferences and public meetings must be organized throughout the state to tell people the true story of Mylapore and the sham story of Santhome.
This is a perfect opportunity to demolish the so-called Thomas story once and for all!
Quote:IFCSAP appeals to govt to stop forceful conversion
Itanagar, May 22 : The Indigenous Faith and Cultural Society of Arunachal Pradesh (IFCSAP) has appealed to the state government to stop forceful conversion and protect life of the indigenous people, particularly Buddhist Tikhaks of Changlang district.
Expressing serious concern over the alleged forceful conversion of Buddhists in Changlang district to Christianity by the activists, reportedly having nexus with NSCN-IM, the IFSCAP in a letter to chief secretary appealed to issue necessary instructions to the administration concerned.
The Purbanchal Bhikkhu Sangha and Buddhist Tikhak Community have alleged that Buddhist Tikhaks of Changlang was being forcefully converted to Christianity by activists reportedly having nexus with the NSCN-IM.
Taking serious note of the 'repeated atrocities' on the indigenous faith believers' in the state, the IFCSAP said both the state and the Centre should give special attention to protect the indigenous people.
http://www.newkerala.com/news/fullnews-112628.html
http://www.satp.org/satporgtp/countries/...scn_im.htm NSCN IM are the terrorists fighting for "Nagaland for Christ".
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