Indian Navy news and discussion

[ramana]

Narsh, Uncle wont sell them to India. The obsolete class is an incentive for TSP to cooperate with massa. If India wants them the price goes up sky high.

[Naresh]

[quote name='ramana' date='30 April 2010 - 08:54 PM' timestamp='1272640596' post='106156']

Narsh, Uncle wont sell them to India. The obsolete class is an incentive for TSP to cooperate with massa. If India wants them the price goes up sky high.

[/quote]



ramana Ji :



The Jalashwa (Ex Trenton) was Purchased for under US Dollars 50 Million so possibly if the Indian Navy tries then may be - just may be - they might be able to get Six to Eight of such ships at a total cost equal to a Modern built to order one of a similar class.



I do hope that the Indian Navy's pride would not be hurt in acquiring 30 Year old vessels as even if they last for 10 Years they would have served the purpose of keeping the Pakistani Navy under constant surveillance especcially their Submarines.



Just a thought!



Cheers

[Arun_S]

Naresh ji:

In addition to what Ramana said, the root cause / pain point is not the warfare capability of the warship, but the very fact that the political system (and its elites) are incentivied to keep the armed forces weak by delaying the procurement that are need for today's war fighting culpability to buying it after 20 years when the ship problem that existed 20 years ago and not the current threat/warfare.



Cowering the Navy to be on its knees and begging alms of what every trash it can get today by paying few cents now and paying a dollar recurring expense to keep it afloat every year is OTOH untenable. US is IMHO teh last source to get any mil eqpt, even the trashed mil eqpt too.

[Naresh]

.

Arun_S Ji :



My knowledge of Naval Craft could be written on the back of a Postage Stamp and as such I do not have the ken to really appreciate the finer points.



However, as a layman I thought just as the Admiral Gorshkov of 1978 vintage can be considered to fill in the short term needs of the Indian Navy it might help if the India Navy got hold of say Six Oliver Hazard Perry type vessels especially to counteract the Pakistani Submarines as with the Indian Navy’s present assets it does not seem to be in a position to counteract the Pakistani submarines.



For the sake of a discussion I dare say that as we speak there is at least one – if not more - of the three Agosta 90B Class Submarines i.e. Khalid and/or Saad and/or Hamza resting at the bottom off the West Coast of India, which IMO could be in the Okha – Mumbai Range.



I am sure that this might seem to you as a flight of fancy, but, if not a fact it is definitely a “Strong Possibility”.



Cheers

[Arun_S]

Naresh ji,

More teeth to ASW is important because PN is unable to fight on sea surface using the junk it has. Its underwater capability is the sharpest arrow it has in its quiver.



India OTOH needs to not only just handle the Paki subs but also other subs that lurk underwater who at the time of war may shoot Indian vessels and pass kill credit to Pakistan; and keep Indian's from achieving war objectives (which are always political objectives). That is hidden warfare space in which other parties play a direct but unattributed role can upset geo-political considerations whose implications are broader than hot war.



Throwing in the sea thousands of sensors (long and short term sensors) and networking them is teh way to make Arabian sea untenable to sub-surface vessels, and that will give viability to Indian forces what is lurking where and who shot whom. That alone will keep teh mischief makers away from hot war with Islamic Pakistan.



As for Admiral Gorshkov of 1978 vintage, only its hull/superstructure and propulsion is of that vintage. Its armament and war fighting capability is far different from what it originally was when it entered RuNavy.



As for its hull and propulsion it has not seen sea going stress or engine wear and tear; in stark contrast with old US ships that has been worn down by decades of use.



Just IMVHO.

[Arun_S]

[url="http://ibnlive.in.com/printpage.php?id=113602&section_id=3"]India launches first anti-submarine corvette[/url]

IANS

Kolkata/New Delhi: India on Monday launched its first anti-submarine warfare corvette that will boost Navy's fighting capability when commissioned in 2012.According to officials, the corvette, Yard 3017, was launched by Mamatha M, wife of Minister of State of Defence M M Pallam Raju, at the Garden Reach Shipbuilders and Engineers (GRSE) in Kolkata.



"Four ships of this class are under construction at GRSE, Kolkata. The first ship is expected to be commissioned by mid-2012 and will be closely followed by the other three ships with the last expected to be commissioned by early 2015," a naval official said.



The corvette, a small fast-moving ship, was ordered in 2003 and the production is delayed by two years.



The official said the 3,100-tonnage ship would be fitted with the latest indigenously developed sonars to detect submarines.



"The torpedo tubes, and scutter (torpedo decoys) launchers contribute to its anti-submarine punch. In addition, the ship will also be equipped with vertically launched Point Defence Missile System (PDMS) and Close In Weapon Systems (CIWS) such as AK 30's and Super Rapid Gun Mount (SRGM)," the official added.



"The ship is also equipped with decoy system Kavach, which is designed to counter the threat of various anti-ship missiles," he said.



At present the Indian Navy does not have any anti-submarine corvettes. It had some Russian corvettes, which were decommissioned long ago.



For anti-submarine operations, navy uses bigger ships like frigates and destroyers.

[sai_k]

A joint venture of Larsen and Toubro and TIDCO, the ship building yard was coming up at Kattupalli in Tiruvallur district. It would build very large cargo carriers, specialised cargo ships for liquid/gas transportation and cruise vessels, defence ships and submarines and off-shore platforms for oil/gas sectors.



It would also undertake refitting and re-engineering of commercial and defence ships and heavy engineering fabrication and components production for ship building.

http://www.hindu.com/2010/05/04/stories/...170500.htm

largest in Asia!?

[Naresh]

.

[quote name='sai_k' date='04 May 2010 - 05:25 AM' timestamp='1272930443' post='106220']

largest in Asia!?

[/quote]



sai_k Ji :



“Largest in Asia” is a very ambitious statement.



One can only compare to other yards and the Article about the Kattupalli Yard being planned does not give any details as to the Size of Ships along with the number of Building Berths as well as Building Docks being provided.



Here is some information about the Biggest Yard and the next planned “Biggest” Yard :



[url="http://www.china-briefing.com/news/2009/07/03/largest-shipyard-in-the-world-opens-in-dalian.html"]1. Largest Shipyard in the World Opens in Dalian[/url]



[url="http://www.marinetalk.com/articles-marine-companies/art/Worlds-Largest-Shipyard-Construction-xxx000110643IN.html"]2. World's Largest Shipyard Construction[/url]



Added later : I think it might become the Largest Shipyard in India and in this instance Shri Stalin got carried away!



Cheers

[Arun_S]

Arihant testing is progressing smoothly, and the boat is performing very well.



The power plant is magnificent and will deliver much higher power than what people expect.

I expect its top speed to be ~ 32 Kts.

[Raj Malhotra]

[quote name='Arun_S' date='16 May 2010 - 04:59 AM' timestamp='1273965701' post='106392']

Arihant testing is progressing smoothly, and the boat is performing very well.



The power plant is magnificent and will deliver much higher power than what people expect.

I expect its top speed to be ~ 32 Kts.

[/quote]





While the news articles talk of reactor being 70-80MW, the slide of DRDO showed it to be around 100MW. I think that Arihant would have "atleast" 100MW reactor and would have submerged displacement of around 9000 to 10,000 metric tons. Look how P-17 which was supposed to be 4900 tons is now stated to be normal 6200tons and warload of 7500 tons.

[Arun_S]

[quote name='Raj Malhotra' date='18 May 2010 - 05:29 PM' timestamp='1274183473' post='106429']

While the news articles talk of reactor being 70-80MW, the slide of DRDO showed it to be around 100MW. I think that Arihant would have "atleast" 100MW reactor and would have submerged displacement of around 9000 to 10,000 metric tons. Look how P-17 which was supposed to be 4900 tons is now stated to be normal 6200tons and warload of 7500 tons.

[/quote]



Yes, I think it will turn out to be 140-150 MWt (thermal)

[laltaputu]

Regarding arihant

how many arihant class sub will be going to make

ins arihant is doing sea trials and there is news of another two in making

if these are true then we will have 3 subs each with 4 missile launchers

is there any news of stretched arihant with 12 missile launchers

arihant powers on 80MW reactor(?) which itself is lagging in power

now if we have 12 launchers we need more poweful reactor is more powerful reactor in making

what about the SSGN plans

[Raj Malhotra]

Old but useful



[url="http://indiatoday.intoday.in/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=53210&sectionid=40&Itemid=1&issueid=111"]india today article[/url]





Over the next five years, the troika of Arihant class SSBNs, each costing Rs 3,200 crore, will make the third leg of India’s nuclear triad—a strategic underwater platform for launching nuclear weapons.



....



In 2005, the UPA Government gave an in-principle clearance for building a follow-on series of larger ballistic missile submarines (SSBNs), costing nearly Rs 8,000 crore a piece or nearly twice that of the current series of ATVs and another line of nuclear-powered fast attack submarines (SSNs) to escort them.



I would say that we are looking at atleast 3+3+3 nuke subs. My guess would be first 3 in 2010 to 2015 and next 6 between 2015 to 2020 apart from import of Russian Akulas.



[url="http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Home-made-nuke-sub-INS-Arihant-to-be-inducted-in-2-years/articleshow/5293123.cms"]Home-made nuke sub INS Arihant to be inducted in 2 years[/url]



This will include three SSBNs (nuclear-powered submarines with long-range strategic missiles) and six SSNs (nuclear-powered attack submarines) in the long-term.

[Arun_S]

[quote name='Arun_S' date='16 May 2010 - 04:59 AM' timestamp='1273965701' post='106392']

Arihant testing is progressing smoothly, and the boat is performing very well.



The power plant is magnificent and will deliver much higher power than what people expect.

I expect its top speed to be ~ 32 Kts.

[/quote]



To add to above and also clarify the Arihant is being tested using on board power source and not the main N power plant.



Yes the main power plant rating is much higher than earlier anticipation.



In terms of speed it will match the top speed of Akula.



http://livefist.blogspot.com/2010/06/fir...clear.html

[Guest]

Drawing based on the picture of the arihant.

[emperor]

^^^

Gagan,



Arihant doesnt come with any hump on its back.



Its a very clean design.Its 13 m dia core allows K-15(for now) which is 11m in lenght without the need for any hump.But its has everything to be done when SLBM of Agni series is considered.given that the SLBM of over 6500km range and 1.5 tons payload comes up with a 2-2.3 m dia and over 13 m lenght, the follow up series of subs were considered to be upsized ones.It means again they are allowing the final SLBM wihtout any hump.Did you know? that have an SBN with no hump is no ordinary feat and India did it with the first time.



L&T has released some pics of the section thats above water couple of years back.Donno if its still available to general viewers.

Arihant in general is a 7500 tonne standard displacement and >12000tonne submerged displacement SBN carrying a lower end SLBM( follows a quasi ballistic trajectory)with a range of bare 2000km for a (worthless warhead <img src='http://www.india-forum.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' /> ){Again I said worthless here means I myself dont even consider it as a true deterent}



But all eyes were on the followup class i.e gen-II nuclear subs of Indian origin.Arihant itself is a an operational technological demonstrator.(nothing more than that).Do we think that we can scare the shit out of china with Arihant? Nah will never ever be.But china is shitting due to its followup class of boats and the fear can be see at the diplomatic channels.



I have no idea how come some images with hump started floating in the interent with no basing.

[ramana]

That pdf posted above (on which Gagan made his sketch) is from the PMO report on UPA achievements dated Jan 2010.

[Arun_S]

Gagan: good 3D rendering. Thank you.



The last rendering with explicit hump after the sail is incorrect.



Arihant clearly has a clean hydrodynamic shape, and the hull diameter increases much more gradually well before the sail (so gradual that is not immediately obvious)



If the missile storage has a diameter of 13m (as Chandragupta is suggesting), then IMHO A3SL will fit in without requiring any hump.

[emperor]

[quote name='Arun_S' date='03 June 2010 - 01:50 PM' timestamp='1275590545' post='106709']

Gagan: good 3D rendering. Thank you.



The last rendering with explicit hump after the sail is incorrect.



Arihant clearly has a clean hydrodynamic shape, and the hull diameter increases much more gradually well before the sail (so gradual that is not immediately obvious)



If the missile storage has a diameter of 13m (as Chandragupta is suggesting), then IMHO A3SL will fit in without requiring any hump.

[/quote]



Infact it is.



but I can clearly see the difference between the renderings and the picture that was posted in Ubber Personified Antogonists pdf.The one in pdf has no hump but has a smooth back after its sail much like a Typhoon class.



It took decades for India just to achieve this,else we might have gone with a large hump on the back to accomodate lengthy missiles like the chinese way <img src='http://www.india-forum.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' /> on a sub with small diameter.



Ramana,



didnt you noticed the difference between Gagans render and original(so called) file picture which has no hull except that distinct borad day sun light casting a shadow.



Also so much for the nuke sub to be featured in Ultras pdf.This is alike taking credit of someones achievement.



Arun,



It was said that the follow-on subs will be quiet larger in both lenght and diameter.And there was also this murmering that SLBM will be longer than this 13 m.I am speculating on the move from the standadised 2 m dia for the SLBM.

Rhetorically our long range missiles call for heavy payload capabilities will farther ranges,I expect the SLBM to be inline with A-V except the fact that baseline specifications like length and diameter varry to accomodate the range and payload.

and we ofcourse are looking at an MIRV for that <img src='http://www.india-forum.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' />

[laltaputu]

Modern 4TH Gen subs line VIRGINIA,Astute submarine

have a one-fill only reactor - basically the reactor lasts for the lifetime of the sub without needing to refuel. This means the sub needs only turn up at base to replenish and routine maintenance.

With india having no system and expertise in place to refuel a naval reactor

wouldn't it be wise for indian sub to have a lifetime core reactor.

what it the lifetime of the core of ARIHANT'S reactor?