Indian Missile News And Discussion

[Guest]

Chandraguptaji,



By this time of this year, there were supposed to be tests of A-1,A-2,K-15 etc...but they havent happened. Also, there is a report of A-5 once again postponed to March 2012...are these programs getting unnecessarily delayed ?



Rapid deployment should be the goal...



Also, A2-AT first test failed. When will there be a retest?

[Arun_S]

Pakis are building more nuke bombs because they have woken up to BM attrition due to Indian ABM, as well as loss of bums that US will take away using Heli assualt. (recently re-confirmed by US)

[ramana]

Please read the page 9 for details of future Agni Versions till A6.





DRDO TechFocus May 2011







See also page 10.

[Guest]

Arunji,



But our ABM syatem is not yet deployed...In this paki builup vs our ABM contest, will the net effect be a decrease of their threat to us ?

Also, in our case, shouldnt we factor in future Chinese ABM systems and possible US/Chn heliborne raids to seize our weapons ? Therefore, we too, need to accelerate our buildup. The greatest safety is in greater numbers.



Or could it be that both pakis and we are building up but paki story is detected more by the outside world b/c of US assets crawling all over the place in Paki land ? This is a possibility as well.



Ramanaji,



This is interesting. But hope A-III operational trials and A-II reliability trials take place soon with success..the article explicitly says A-III is deployed....conformation from the "horse's mouth" ?

[Arun_S]

Feeds good when your assessment and predictions come true.



Some people must be eating crow now, on seeing that MIRV Agni is in making as well as large diameter Agni for sub surface launch. Somthing that I analys\zed and predicted few years ago, to the disbelief of nay sayers.



Elephant moves undisturbed while dogs bark <img src='http://www.india-forum.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' />

[ravicv]

[quote name='Arun_S' date='19 May 2011 - 05:35 PM' timestamp='1305854822' post='111633']

Feeds good when your assessment and predictions come true.



Some people must be eating crow now, on seeing that MIRV Agni is in making as well as large diameter Agni for sub surface launch. Somthing that I analys\zed and predicted few years ago, to the disbelief of nay sayers.



Elephant moves undisturbed while dogs bark <img src='http://www.india-forum.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' />

[/quote]



Param Poojya Hon. Webmaster Maharaj,



Why all the joy of some "projected" MIRV'ed Agni 6 in the year 9220 AD when the clowns can't even successfully launch Agni 2 Prime (Agni 2 AT)? Every failure leads to even more bombastic claims from DRDO.

[ravicv]

Every single reliable source points to the dung beetle quisling MMS for stalling the Indian missile program at this very critical juncture in Indian history. I wonder whether a fresh thread needs to be started wherein instances of deliberate sabotage of Indian strategic projects, and, potentially invaluable strategic alliances (for example like one with Vietnam) by Indian powers-that-be can be documented.

[ramana]

AK Anthony asks DRDO to complete Agni V as soon as possible.



Saraswat says test before end of 2011.



http://www.thehindu.com/sci-tech/science...073999.ece



Why do the DRDO missiles have incremental ranges ?



Looks like a lot of effort is spent in realizing marginal improvements in range. The payload is always said to be 1 tonne!



A-II:2500, A-III:3000 now A-V:5000 km ranges!

[ravicv]

[quote name='ramana' date='03 June 2011 - 10:44 AM' timestamp='1307126213' post='111782']

AK Anthony asks DRDO to complete Agni V as soon as possible.



Saraswat says test before end of 2011.



http://www.thehindu.com/sci-tech/science...073999.ece



Why do the DRDO missiles have incremental ranges ?



Looks like a lot of effort is spent in realizing marginal improvements in range. The payload is always said to be 1 tonne!



A-II:2500, A-III:3000 now A-V:5000 km ranges!

[/quote]



This certainly is positive news. However, given the backlogs and slippages in the missile program, this should not be a solitary launch. What I'd like to see before the end of 2011 is:



1. A preliminary launch of A-5 (launching upto 90 Kms vertically),

2. A full fledged test upto the maximum stipulated range with dummy warheads,

3. The same as points 1. & 2. (above) for A-2 Prime (AT),

4. A user validation test for A-3.



This will give some confidence and inject some seriousness and credibility into the Indian missile program.

[ravicv]

Hon. Webmaster Saheb,



Is there any operational reason why the Brahmos cannot be deployed in Siachen (say 30-50 in numbers)? Is there a problem the storage of the ramjets liquid fuel (kerosene) at around 6500-7,000 mts? It will further deter the Pak army because even from their forward most deployment, they can't see the glacier. I'm concerned about the lack of artillery and/or CM firepower on the Saltoro Ridge. Also, I've still to get a definitive answer of the effectiveness of FAE's at such altitudes, or even on the Eastern front, owing to the scarceness of O_2. Perhaps it may be possible with a modified design where the FAE is used in combination with something else.

[Arun_S]

[quote name='qubit' date='04 June 2011 - 02:24 AM' timestamp='1307134003' post='111784']

Is there any operational reason why the Brahmos cannot be deployed in Siachen (say 30-50 in numbers)? [/quote]

Not that I can think of.

Is there a problem the storage of the ramjets liquid fuel (kerosene) at around 6500-7,000 mts?

Not at all.



As an aside lighting up Ramjet at 7 Km altitude is one thing (MKI'zing will prove it), but control law for the initial 10 seconds at such altitude definitely requires proving.

It will further deter the Pak army because even from their forward most deployment, they can't see the glacier.

India has the highest peaks, so their visibelity is limited, but not enough to take potshots at Indian units in Sonam and other posts with anti-material rifles and artillary shots. Yes there is a big shadow areas near Indian glacier area that is opaque to TSP artillery.

I'm concerned about the lack of artillery and/or CM firepower on the Saltoro Ridge. Also, I've still to get a definitive answer of the effectiveness of FAE's at such altitudes, or even on the Eastern front, owing to the scarceness of O_2. Perhaps it may be possible with a modified design where the FAE is used in combination with something else.

The more base question what targets will the such BrhaMos deployment aim at? I can only think of some of TSP hidden warheads and missile that can be taken out by S curving BrahMos, or causing extream discomfiture to Chinese troops dressed as water-ways construction workers. Both objectives better served by BrahMos units deployed near Kargil town.



As for FAE, its a valid question and you know this concern has been expressed at high enough quarters.

[ravicv]

Hon. Webmaster,



The mere presence of a couple of Brahmos batteries on the Saltoro ridge will intmidate the Pak. Army, and will stretch and twist their demented minds about the various possibilities and reasons for their deployment. It's being pro-active (a psy-ops of sorts) and letting them know that another manner to take the fight to them has been implemented.



BTW, I was shown a video of this Zaid Hamid fellow. Is he naturally insane, or is his act for the consumption of some specific audience, or is it both of the above reasons? He talks absolute MMS!

[ravicv]

Hon Webmaster,



I believe there is some artillery cover 155, 130 and 105 mm. Whether it's on the Saltoro Ridge per-se remains to be determined. Apart from the Brahmos, why aren't Pinaka's deployed on the Saltoro Ridge? BTW, can a combined and intense CM+rocket+artillery barrage kick the Pak army out of Gyong-La and cleanse the area of filth?

[Arun_S]

[quote name='qubit' date='04 June 2011 - 06:15 PM' timestamp='1307191058' post='111787']

Hon Webmaster,



I believe there is some artillery cover 155, 130 and 105 mm. Whether it's on the Saltoro Ridge per-se remains to be determined. [/quote]

I understand there is enough artillery firepower on the Glacier to take care of frontline there.

Apart from the Brahmos, why aren't Pinaka's deployed on the Saltoro Ridge? BTW, can a combined and intense CM+rocket+artillery barrage kick the Pak army out of Gyong-La and cleanse the area of filth?

Pinaka range is way beyond Arty beyond LoS, wonder how will they be aimed beyond LoS? (spotter UaV perhaps) and apart from pin pricks unless there is deep penetration by army in that mountain terrain which means major outbreak of hostilities.



What is unsaid is the firepower that should be brought to bear from Indira Col, on the Chinese forces in PoK that TSP ceded to China more than 30 years ago, as part of "[size="1"][size="3"]Nath Utrai[/size][/size]" to consummate taller than Himalaya and deeper than ocean relationship with China.



[sub][size="1"]

[size="3"]Nath Utrai[/size][size="3"][size="1"] has been a prominent ritual in the Nat community and is celebrated as a custom. Nath is the nose ring, a Nat girl wears, which is removed symbolically by her first client. Amongst the clients, one who pays the highest amount performs the custom of Nath Utrai.[/size] [/size]

[/size][/sub]

[ravicv]

Hon. Webmaster,



Indira Col. it is!

[ramana]

Agni V to bolster India's Missiles



Bad title but what to say?

Agni V to Bolster India’s Missile Pack





Dr Monika Chansoria Published: June 2011



New Delhi. India is well on its way of testing what can be described as its most ambitiously zealous strategic missile system—the Agni V, by the end of 2011.





India’s Defence Minister, AK Antony, recently stressed upon the need for acquiring a missile with a reach of 5,000 kms. Asking the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) to demonstrate its capability to reach the range of 5000 kms at the earliest, Antony stated, “The interceptor missile development programme has taken India to an elite club of nations that possess the capability to demonstrate and deploy missile defence.” It can also be added here that the DRDO is already focused upon futuristic technology development as it frames a roadmap “Defence Technology Vision 2050.”



Reacting to Defence Minister’s statement, the Scientific Adviser to the Defence Minister and Director General of the DRDO, Dr VK Saraswat provided assurance with a statement, “We have tested the three (solid-propellant composite rocket motor) stages of Agni V independently...all ground tests are now over… The integration process is now in progress… We want to test the missile in December, not let it spill over to 2012.”



DRDO is India's state-run defence research body, involved in five major missile programmes, some of which have already been tested and inducted by the Armed Forces.



India search and longing for an inter-continental ballistic missile (ICBM) has been on for long, more so since ICBMs have been in the exclusive possession of the prominent five nations till now, particularly China. The Agni V with a development cost of over Rs 2,500 crores, is likely to cover China's northernmost regions within its nuclear strike envelope, owing primarily to its high road mobility, fast-reaction ability and a strike range over 5,000 kms. The Agni V will provide for the must-needed credible deterrence especially against China, which already showcases a Dong Feng-31A ICBM that can likely hit across the length and breadth of India.



Technologically innovative while displaying ring laser gyroscope and accelerator for navigation and guidance, the Agni V is reportedly easy to store and swift in so far as its transportation is concerned. It is a canister-launch missile system, which in case fired from India’s Northeast region would be capable of targeting China’s northernmost city of Habin.



India’s security concerns seem to find validation with recent reports pointing at China reportedly placing advanced Dong Feng-21 (DF-21/CSS-5) medium-range ballistic missiles (MRBMs) along the borders it shares with India. China appears to be strengthening its deterrent capabilities in the region by replacing the earlier liquid-fuelled, nuclear capable CSS-3 intermediate range ballistic missiles with the upgraded CSS-5 missiles—a road mobile, solid-propellant, tactical missile system with payload and accuracy sufficient enough to target key civilian population centres and thus can, in effect, be effectively used as a deterrent against India. The basic variant of the DF-21 (CSS-5 Mod-1) is capable of delivering a 500 kiloton nuclear warhead over a maximum range of 1,800 kms. According to various sources, over 100 DF-21 missiles have been built with some of them being reconfigured with conventional warheads that can be put to use along China’s southern and north-western borders—thereby targeting areas throughout northern India.





.....

[ravicv]

[quote name='ramana' date='14 June 2011 - 07:36 AM' timestamp='1308065320' post='111937']

Agni V to bolster India's Missiles



Bad title but what to say?

[/quote]



They'll talk a lot about the Agni V and then build about 4 in 10 years. So much for the Indian definition of deterrence. BTW, I think the author means accelerometer and not accelerator.

[ramana]

Yes that ture for it goes with the RLG.



Anyway how about seeing beyond the print and discern trends?



Note the bus/payload section weight of 2490 kgs for AIII isnt this same as 1.5 tonnes?



Will this be the payload for A-V?



What to make of MRVs for same vehicle?

[ravicv]

[quote name='ramana' date='15 June 2011 - 07:43 AM' timestamp='1308152112' post='111949']

Yes that ture for it goes with the RLG.





Note the bus/payload section weight of 2490 kgs for AIII isnt this same as 1.5 tonnes?



Will this be the payload for A-V?



What to make of MRVs for same vehicle?

[/quote]



In the past, some very few but pretty reliable sources have quoted A-3 carrying around 2.5t instead of 1.5t for 3500 kms. This has been reiterated by a poster on another forum after this article came out. So, there might be something to this. I guess this will be the payload of A-5 too. Before discussing MIRV's one should backtrack and ask whether the Indian stockipile is in fact way larer than what is commonly reported. A recent study stated to the affirmative. My guess concurs with this finding. I'm not too terribly sure about the boost glide abilities of A-3, but A-5 would certainly have a boost glide trajectory as one of its options. Looking at it in one way, A-5's third stage is an extended/enlarged version of the Hon. Webmaster's SUM.

[Arun_S]

Now that my Agni missile page is off the web after I abandoned Bharat Rakshak, some people have researched my article from web archives (as well as print publications) and using that in their articles.



BTW the 2490 Kg and 3490 Kg payload for Agni-III was reported in leading press papers after first flight failure. The 2490kg and 3490 Kg was those days seen as DDM, but because it was reported while quoting a senior DRDO official.



Some will recall that in my Agni web pages I have stated the A-3 payload range (from 600 kg to 3490).



Also the range for 2490 Kg payload was accurately shown in the payload versus range graph for Agni-III and Agni-IISL. They are still available online in the article I wrote for Indian Defense Review. They can be seen here:



[url="http://www.indiandefencereview.com/defence%20industry/Way-to-a-Credible-Deterrent.html"]http://www.indiandef...-Deterrent.html[/url]



[url="http://www.indiandefencereview.com/military%20&%20aerospace/Indias-Strategic-Missiles.html"]http://www.indiandef...c-Missiles.html[/url]









[size="2"]BTW the above graphs/images of mine[/size][size="1"] [size="2"]are copyrighted and not in public domain.[/size][/size]