Bollywood And Propaganda

[Husky]

There appear to be two threads on bollywho. But there doesn't appear to be a "bollywood on their brains" thread. If there were, the following fits in there:



indiatoday.intoday.in/story/carnatic-musicians-oscar-nominated-lullaby-for-life-of-pi-faces-plagiarism-charge/1/242238.html

Carnatic musician's Oscar nominated lullaby for Life of Pi faces plagiarism charge

A. Harikumar

Thiruvananthapuram, January 14, 2013 | UPDATED 21:36 IST



A Tamil lullaby penned and sung by Carnatic musician and playback singer Bombay Jayashree, for the film 'Life of Pi' which has been nominated for Oscars has come under the allegation of plagiarism with descendants of a legendary Malayalam poet Ravi Varman Thamby popularly known as Irayimman Thamby (1782-1856) claiming that it is a translation of the late poet's lullaby.



Jayashree's song has been nominated for Oscars in the category of [color="#0000FF"]original[/color] score.



[color="#0000FF"]N. Krishna Varma, chairman of Irayimman Thambi Trust[/color] based at Cherthala in Alappuzha district in Kerala and Rukmini Bhai Thampuratty secretary of [color="#0000FF"]The Trust said Jayashree has copied first eight lines of the lullaby written by Thamby around 200 years ago. They said they were alerted by vigilant fans of the late poet about the song and have collected primary evidence in the issue.[/color] Varma said the trust is moving court in the issue unless Jayashree apologises for her alleged plagiarism before the photo of Irayimman Thamby kept at his ancestral home in Cherthala.

[color="#800080"](Apparently, the new lullaby only has 10 lines. Eight of which are here said to be lifted from the existing Malayali lullaby.)[/color]



[color="#0000FF"]The lullaby "Omanathinkal Kidavo Nalla Komala Thamara Poovo" meaning "Is this the beautiful face of full moon or enticing lotus flower," was written by Thamby, a poet laureate[/color] of erstwhile Travancore King's court and [color="#0000FF"]a member of royal family for Swathi Thirunal[/color] who later became the King of Travancore.



[color="#0000FF"]According to Varma, Jayashree had asked a music historian for the original lines of Irayimman Thambi's song who provided her with it.[/color] The imagery, words and lines of Jayashree are translations of Thambi's Malayalam lines and we cannot understand [color="#0000FF"]how a translator could claim right over the song[/color], said Varma.



[color="#0000FF"]Varma said he came to know through newspapers that Jayashree had dismissed the allegation and had claimed that the words and imagery are the result of her own imagination. But we strongly oppose the claim of Jayashree that the song is her original composition. A translator cannot be author, he said.[/color]



According to him, the trust members are unanimous that the claim of Jayashree should not go uncontested and therefore we are going to court to establish truth. Let the court decide the truth, he said. Varma said he does not want money and only want to protect the right of late Thamby on his own composition.

Elsewhere, people mentioned that even the melody seems to be lifted directly from the traditional rendering of the Malayali original. So much so that Malayalis who'd watched the movie thought that it *was* the same song that they'd heard as children (though transcribed into tamizh for the film). The reason this last too is relevant, is that Jayashree's claim seems to be that she didn't just sing it and pen the lyrics, but that she created the melody as well.



I guess it wasn't until the oscar nomination that people discovered that Jayashree had launched claims to owning not just the voice track, but the words and the tune as well... (Nominated in the "original" score or "original" song category, isn't it?)





If this turns out to be true - as it reasonably seems to be, going by the details in the above article - Jayashree looks to be chasing global attention (doing trite bollywho vocals for large numbers of "secular" christoislamic movies not enough for her? *)

Now if she's that desperate, why not *actually* write her own lyrics and melody? That way, if she won something, it would actually be because she earned it*.

Else, if she's going to use or copy existing work, give due credit. Or at a minimum, you don't put your name to it either. That way it makes things even when everyone else's name is left uncredited too.





Yuck.

Also, (moral if you're going to cheat, at the very least, don't get caught. Because incompetence at plagiarism just spells failure twice over.





* As I recall, Jayashree and other such kafirs provided vocals for an "islamic devotional" album too. <- From the spotchecking I did of the songs, the singers couldn't save the album try as hard as they might, as it ranks right up there with The Worst background Music I've ever heard. Then again, the composers were islamic, so it was to be expected and I was smugly pleased that they didn't even try to surprise me by presenting some iota of musical talent. Sure they mustered all they could, but produced a total trainwreck anyway. :too bad:

Interestingly, IIRC *all* the vocalists on that islamic album were Hindu mercenaries hired to sing about allah. Very curious.

Meanwhile, in islamic countries, musical albums - without or especially with muslim lyrical content - would be banned (islamic injunction, certainly was in force in the past, and still does the rounds now and again), but in India, islam is desperate I suppose, as it faces severe competition from Hindus' religion which is far more attractive because heathen religions create (it's built-in), while missionising religions - being false/a lie and hence a big zero - consequently have no generative core and hence can only parasite by competing and inculturing as christianism does.





Still, I predict that the oscar committee persons won't let the probable plagiarism here factor into their deciding on which song gets the award. Hindoo-made music is so obscure to them, that the west plagiarised it quite a number of times and got away without anyone noticing it. Anyone else get annoyed with how the Dune miniseries had a carnatic singer's alaapana vocal track set as the pseudo mid-eastern taliban's background music? (Track's called "Paul's Vision". Extremely jarring to hear typical Hindoo carnatic mixed with unmatched synthesized sounds that go against the raagam and singing.) Can't believe Revell wrote reams about how he "investigated" and respected "middle-eastern" music. <- The west thinks Hindu India and its "culture" is actually the islamic middle-east. (I've heard of people being bad at geography before - okay, :guilty: - but this is overdoing it...) That's why the west regularly keeps associating and hence crediting *Hindu* music to islamic Arabia and Iran. I hope Revell didn't imagine his Carnatic track on the album counts among his "innovative" compositions for the mini-series, because the singing was straightforward typical carnatic vocalising... (but I guess Revell knew his audience wouldn't know that)



The rest of the Dune mini's OST wasn't bad, but it and more so Children of Dune's OST were in many ways just a rehash of Zimmer and Dead-Can-Dance's Lisa Gerard's scoring work for Gladiator, so nothing original. Indeed, Gladiator's celebrated score was itself an attempt at an east/west "ethnic" sound that was an obvious throwback to Gabriel and Ravi Shankar's "The Last Temptation of Christ"'s east "west" fusion OST called IIRC "The Passion" (which leaned far more on the east than on the west). That last was an earlier instance where Hindu music of India (and Hindu-inspired Pak music) was substituted for the Middle-East, including even the Jewish lands... and associated with christianism :What?: (So the tally is that the west eagerly chooses to associate/claim Hindu music for islam and christianism...) LToC started the "ethnic" trend: where Indian musical motifs got turned into some generic, unspecified "ethnic" music. Nowadays often doing the rounds (in the late 90s/early 2000s, you could see digitally-generated tabla music accompanying a lot of documentaries. Many of them badly done, though I admit I liked seeing some small South American(?) rodent species hop about in slow-mo to IIRC tabla-like percussion, with Attenborough smiling on. <- See, I wasn't the only one smiling.)



Back to the Dune mini: it wasn't the first sci-fi to use blatant Hindu music in one of its tracks either. The very excellent Blade-runner OST used traditional Hindu music in its "Damask Rose" track (the raagam is Yamuna Kalyani IMO: though I'm generally utterly hopeless at working out raagas - my parents laugh at my guesses, with good reason - the violin and singer here follows close enough to the very melody of MSS' opening to Bhavayami Gopalabalam - you know, the bit of the raagam she enters into before she starts singing the lyrics), and yet it was presented it as a new/unique sound of the future. The rest of the album is definitely futuristic sounding, but not that track, despite synths in the backgrounds. Again, "Damask Rose": Damask -> Damascus = Syria not India. Yet the song is Hindu Indian, not middle-eastern.

Well, at least the Damask Rose track sounds nice (it should: MSS' short dwelling on the raagam to Bhavayami is classic and unforgettable; and I have a soft spot for Vangelis, plus his BGM for the singing didn't jar. Also, this is Blade Runner. Not complaining.)



<Ended up listening to the album.>



I suppose Indians of Hindu background plagiarising Hindu music to entertain a western audience - which finds it all quaintly novel - can be seen as a new development in the existing trend of the west's using India's Hindu music and pretending it is western "innovation" and then further associating Hindu music with the Middle-East instead. Hey, who knows, maybe Jayashree's stint on the earlier-mentioned islamic devotional album can get her and islam a grammy despite the horrendous BGM? Wouldn't that just make a perfect summary for the whole affair?



At least this film featuring Jayashree, "Life of Pi", I hear is directed by Ang Lee (?). Which surely can't be a bad thing. The last film of his that I remember was that Daoist martial arts saga - Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon - involving fighters from the famed Daoist mountain (Wu Tan mountain, was it? sp?). Ah, wire-fu. Michelle Yeoh, the Taiwanese guy in the desert, etc. Bamboo greens. Traditional Chinese background music. = Good film.

[Husky]

1. Apparently bollywho isn't the only one peddling couples consisting of islamic male and female of community targeted by islamic jihad.





"Jaffa". Israeli movie. Not watched it, but came across summary. The "romantic" couple here is - wait for it - islamic male and Jewish female.

That curious combination, which is a tell-tale sign of social engineering was lost to the person who made the following comment (taken off imdb) but the comment is otherwise informative: apparently this is the sort of trash that Israeli leftists like to make up. Sounds like the Indian left and out-and-out christoislamics.

Excellent movie, while totally unrealistic.



Author: vivarto

15 July 2012



Leftist Israelis make up this fantasies. They invent a fake reality of Arab - Israeli love and understanding. In this respect this movie is just like the the "Egyptian Band".



In reality in Jaffa nobody calls Israeli Arabs "Palestinians" both Jews and Arabs refer to them as "Arabs".



The marriages between Arabs and Jews are rare, and only extremely rare survive beyond just a few years.



The hope that this movie is trying to instill in the hearts of the naive viewers is false.



In summary: a tragic waste of talent to make such a false movie.



Was the above review useful to you?

2. Came across an impassioned indiafacts article some time back about some Khan who married Kareena Kapoor (they are both some of the ugliest looking-actors I've ever seen - and I've seen *way* too many of this sort from India - so they deserve each other). Oh yes, Saif-Ali Khan was his name - the spawn of Tagore's progeny (nee Sharmila Tagore) and some islamaniac cricketer who was still playing royalty in India. [Islamaniacs should go back to Iran/Arabia, and channel emir/sultan/khalif haroon-al-rashid/whatever there.]



For some reason the indiafacts article imagined that Saif Ali Khan's 2 wives mattered at all. Sure, they converted to islamania upon marrying him, just as his mother (of Hindu ancestry once-upon-a-time) did upon marrying his dad, but whereas the last at least is some reason for Hindu vocalist writers to add their two cents, Saif's 2 wives converting isn't.



Here's the article that wasted its breath:



indiafacts.co.in/open-letter-saif-ali-khan-must-pataudi-brides-convert-islam-marry/



By IndiaFacts Staff Distortion & Appropriation, Media October 16, 2014

Open Letter to Saif Ali Khan: Why must Pataudi brides convert to Islam to marry?



a. Wife #1 was one Amrita Singh. She was a Sikh who, as revealed in the article, converted to islam upon marrying Saif-Ali Khan. When the two split up, she seemed to have remained in islam.



Does it really matter, when her mother was a muslim?

So she merely had a stint at her dad's Sikhism for the first half of her life and then her mum's islam for the latter half.

(Perhaps she also figured that one invisible mono-deity is as invisible and as mono as the other.)



en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amrita_Singh

Amrita Singh



Early life



Amrita was born to a Sikh family, raised as a Sikh. She is the daughter of Rukhsana Sultana, who was a political activist and Shavinder Singh, who was an army officer. She is the granddaughter of The Hon Sardar Bahadur Sir Sobha Singh, OBE, of Hadali, Sargodha, Punjab.



Her maternal grandmother Zarina, was the elder sister of actor Begum Para, mother of actor Ayub Khan. She was also the daughter of Mian Ehsan Ul Haque, who came from a landowning family. He was a judge and the Chief Justice of the highest court in the princely state of Bikaner, northern Rajasthan. Through her father, she is a relative of novelist Khushwant Singh and businessman Sir Sobha Singh of Naya Delhi.



She attended Modern School in New Delhi and is fluent in the English, Punjabi and Hindi languages.[3]

(And isn't Khushwant Singh that famous secular who likes to take jabs at Hindus now and again?)



Here's Amrita Singh's islamic cousin - from the maternal side - and her own mother:



en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ayub_Khan_(actor)

Ayub Khan (actor)

Religion Islam

Spouse(s) Niharika Khan

Children Tahura / Zohra

Parents Nasir Khan

Begum Para



Ayub Khan (born February 23, 1969) is an Indian film and television actor, most known for TV series, Uttaran (2008–Present) . He is the son of actor Nasir Khan and Begum Para.[1] His father was the brother of actor Dilip Kumar.[2] His mother was the maternal aunt of Amrita Singh's mother Rukhsana Sultana.



Born to former 1950s actress Begum Para and actor Nasir Khan. His mother's sister Zarina is the mother of Rukhsana Sultana, mother of actress Amrita Singh.[3]



Ayub Khan is married to costume designer Niharika Khan, known for films like Rock On!! (2008) and The Dirty Picture (2011). They met while in college. When Niharika left to the US for her studies, they married other people. After 11 years they divorced and married each other.[4][5]

Filmography

Ayub Khan's wife is a hybrid Parsi and "Punjabi" of some kind (whenever a hybrid marries into christoislam, any Hindu or even Sikh ancestry becomes irrelevant and is merely denoted by regional indicator. In fact, for John Abraham, he referred even to his Parsi ancestry as Iranian/Persian while sticking to his catholic half as "catholic".)



en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niharika_Khan

Niharika Khan



Niharika Khan is an Indian costume designer who works in Hindi cinema (Bollywood), and is most known for her work in Rock On!! (2008) and The Dirty Picture (2011), for which she won the National Film Award for Best Costume Design as well as Filmfare Award for Best Costume Design.





Early life and education



Born to parents Punjabi and Parsi, Khan did her masters in public relations and HR from Seattle, US.[1]

Back to Amrita's islamic mum:



en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rukhsana_Sultana

Rukhsana Sultana

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



Rukshana Sultana promoted and motivated people in the Sanjay Gandhi’s "Indiri Bachao” a sterilisation programme in Delhi's politically hypersensitive Muslim quarters around Jama Masjid during the Emergency period in India. Rukshana was a boutique owner before she started working closely with Sanjay Gandhi[1] She induced 13,000 vasectomies in less than a year, the campaign erupted in rioting and violent clashes with the police and resulted in bloody deaths.[2] Rukshana was referred as Sanjay Gandhi’s right hand.[3]

Family



Sultana's mother, Zarina, was the daughter of Mian Ehsan-ul-haque, the Chief Justice of the princely state of Bikaner in northern Rajasthan. He came from a landowning family, originally from Jalandhar, Punjab. Sultana's maternal aunt (her mother's younger sister) was actress Begum Para,



Sultana, a Muslim by birth, married Shivinder Singh, a Sikh army officer. He is the nephew of the novelist Khushwant Singh and the grandson of construction magnate Sir Sobha Singh of Lahore. Their only child is the actress Amrita Singh, ex-wife of the actor Saif Ali Khan.

Anyway, despite the Zoroastrian first-name of Amrita's mother - which Zoroastrian name was turned into merely "Iranian" after islam invaded India (hence Shah-Rukh and Rukhshana names are used by islamics), Amrita Singh's mother is in fact a muslim with a very islamic ancestry.



So Amrita's family essentially consists of people dilly-dallying between Sikhism and islam. So Amrita's move back into islam should be seen in that light.



And why *Hindu* nationalists should care - with half-baked info too - is beyond me.





b. The second wife of Saif Ali Khan was - as is typical of India's islamic actors in general - of another infidel variety: Kareena Kapoor.



Once more, the indiafacts staff member(s) who wrote the article questioning Saif-Ali Khan's requirement that his wives convert to islam (like his psecular anti-Hinduised mother was expected to), without his islamic family ever reciprocating of course, were taking unnecessary interest in Kareena's conversion.



As already stated before, she's not really a Hindu. Her mother, one "Babita" is actually christian despite having had a Hindu dad. (You know, the way Lara Dutta, Malaika Arora, etc etc are catholic christians like their mothers, despite having "Hindu" dads.) Moreover, from the way wackypedia has phrased it below, it seems like Babita is an Anglo-Indian to boot: having an English mother (which appears to explain why Kareena and Karisma look like that other Anglo-"Indian" Katrina Kaif, whose face also goes on and on.)



en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Babita

Babita



Babita Shivdasani (or Bhambhani) born 20 April 1948,[2][3][4][5] in Mumbai, is a former Bollywood actress. Babita was born to actor Hari Shivdasani, who was from a Sindhi family that migrated from Pakistan to India, while her mother is an English British national. Babita is the wife of actor Randhir Kapoor, and the eldest daughter-in-law of actor Raj Kapoor. She is also great-daughter-in-law of actor Prithviraj Kapoor. Her daughters are actresses Karisma Kapoor and Kareena Kapoor.





Babita was born to actor Hari Shivdasani, who was of a Hindu Sindhi family, and a Christian mother.[6] Shivdasani organized a screen test for her with veteran producer G.P. Sippy. He liked her screen test and gave her the opportunity to star in his film. She is the cousin of yesteryear actress Sadhana.



Career



She married Randhir Kapoor on 6 November 1971.[citation needed] After their marriage, Babita had to leave the film industry, as part of the Kapoor tradition which forbids women from acting in films. The marriage produced two children: Karisma Kapoor and Kareena Kapoor.[7][8][9]



After the birth of their daughters, their relationship was under strain and finally after a few years they separated. Babita walked out taking her daughters with her. She would eventually break the tradition for which she was forced to leave the industry. Her two daughters went on to become film stars of their generation unlike her who could never reach that kind of success.



After 20 years of separation, Babita re-united with husband Randhir Kapoor in 2007 and moved in with him.



Babita became a grandmother when elder daughter Karisma gave birth to a baby girl, Samaira Kapoor. Her second grandchild is Karishma's son Kiaan Raj Kapoor.



1. "Now, Saif-Kareena to exchange wedding vows in church". India Today. 18 October 2012. Retrieved 31 January 2014.

2. www.imdb.com/name/nm0044999/bio

3. www.iloveindia.com/bollywood/actresses/babita.html

4. cine-talkies.com/movies/bollywood-actress/babita/index.php

5. www.astrosage.com/celebrity-horoscope/babita-horoscope.asp

6. Sheeba Hasan (16 June 2009) My mother didn't like me in bikini. masala.com

7. Meena Iyer (2010-02-24). "Kareena: Yes, I eat! – Times Of India". Articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com. Retrieved 2012-10-16.

8. "Kareena, Saif at St Andrew’s Church in Mumbai – Times Of India". Articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com. 2011-12-26.

9. "Kareena, family and friends go to midnight mass at St Andrews". Mid-day.com. 2008-12-26.

Ref 6 was cited as proof of Babita's christian heritage, which seems more like full-blown christianism:

www.masala.com/my-mother-didnt-like-me-in-bikini-12806.html

With Kareena being extremely busy with her career and beau Saif Ali Khan, mom Babita has a lot of time on hand.



"She now does a lot of charity work with charitable institutions like the Mount Mary Old Age Home in Bandra and other places. She's a very giving woman. I should know. She sacrificed her own career and joys to bring up my sister and me," said the actress.



Not too many people know that Babita is half Christian.



"Her mother was a Christian and father a Sindhi. So we are as fond of the church as we're of the temple. Christmas is a big event for us," said Kareena.

Not half-christian (whatever that means), but fully christian.

Also Kareena does the typically christoislamic thing of referring to Babita's mother's religion - i.e. christian - and her father's region/sub-ethnicity as "Sindhi". I.e. Kareena doesn't recognise anything Hindu in her Sindhi grandfather on her mother's side, but does recognise the christianism of her maternal grandma. Who knows what "temples" she is fond of - possibly even some new age centre or an interfaith catholic centre like Fatima something or other.

In any case, she does visit the church. From one of those links at wackypedia:



timesofindia.indiatimes.com/entertainment/filmi-parties/bollywood/Kareena-Saif-at-St-Andrews-Church-in-Mumbai/articleshow/11242344.cms

Kareena, Saif at St Andrew’s Church in Mumbai

TNN | Dec 26, 2011, 12.00AM IST

inShare

Babita with Kareena Kapoor and Saif Ali Khan

Babita with Kareena Kapoor and Saif Ali Khan

Christmas bells were ringing as the clock struck 12 and everyone gathered to attend Midnight Mass at St Andrew's Church on Saturday night.



Dressed in all black were sisters Malaika Arora Khan and Amrita Arora Ladak, who came to attend mass with mom Joyce. Another set of sisters who we spotted were Karisma Kapoor and Kareena Kapoor, who had beau Saif Ali Khan with her. Dino Morea, Deanne Pandey, Ash Chandler and girlfriend Junelia Aguiar and Viren Rasquinha also came to attend mass.



A pregnant Lara Dutta was also seen here. We also saw Sarah-Jane Dias and Vishal Dadlani on the bike, but the duo were headed elsewhere.

Except for Saif Ali Khan, practically all the names sound like christians and catholics in particular. ("Vishal Dadlani" will doubtless convert if he marries a christoislamic, so can include him already.)

In any case, of Malaika Arora and the half-Scottish Lara Dutta it is well-known that they are catholics, which means the St Andrews church - despite Babita having had an English mother - is catholic not Anglican. I.e. Babita is catholic and raised Karisma and Kareena as such.





Here, another divorce case:



en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malaika_Arora_Khan

Early life and background



Malaika Arora Khan was born in Thane, Maharashtra. Her parents divorced when she was 11 years old and the family shifted to Chembur. Her mother, Joyce Polycarp, is a Malayali Catholic and her father, Anil Arora, was a Punjabi native to the Indian border town of Fazilka. Arora worked in the Merchant Navy.[4][5][6] She is a Catholic.[7]



She completed her secondary education at Swami Vivekanand School in Chembur. Her aunt, Grace Polycarp, was the principal of the school. She is also an alumnus of the Holy Cross High School Thane where she studied until ninth grade. She completed her college education from Jai Hind College, Churchgate. She lived in Borla Society, Chembur opposite Basant Talkies before starting her modelling career.[8]

(Don't know why wackypedia lists Malaika Arora's ethnicity as "Punjabi" since her maternal half is not Punjabi, but a "Malayali" Catholic, whatever that is: it need not always be Syrian christian.) As for the surname Polycarp, it says nothing either. Polycarp is alleged to have been a 2nd century christian bishop in Smyrna (modern-day Turkey) who allegedly got martyred. Turns out he's another one of those airborne diseases: fictions. Specifically, Polycarp and Ignatius are further fictions forged as witnesses to/to prop up the fiction of jeebus:



jesusneverexisted.com/ignatius.html

Witness creation programme: "Ignatius and Polycarp" – Twin stars in the Christian dreamscape



But what if Ignatius-cum-Polycarp is a demonstrable fabrication, the work of 2nd century Catholic Orthodoxy, seeding its own beliefs into an earlier era as "evidence" for a rebuttal to the challenge of Gnosticism, what then of this "witness to Jesus"?



[...]

Justin on Ignatius



Justin Priscus (the so-called "martyr"), writing in the mid-2nd century has not a word to say about any imperious bishop of Antioch.



A long-term resident of Ephesus, Justin records nothing of Polycarp either. Neither the celebrity martyrdoms of the dynamic duo, nor the compendium of their letters, merits a comment.



Could it be that none of the Catholic fable had been invented in Justin's day?

Got side-tracked into christian fictions, as it's more exciting than bollywho. But back to the point. Kareena's catholic side (she attends mass at a church that her fellow catholics attend) is attested. Her Hindu side is not. (Will not count any new-ageisms on her part.)



Specifically, communion is a part of every catholic mass. IIRC, in catholicism, only the baptised may receive communion. (Which would mean Kareena, like Karisma, is baptised. And which would further underline the christianism of their mother Babita: not a "half-christian"/half-baked christian after all, but a full catholic.)



Kareena is a christian (at most a christian hybrid, which still does not bode well for any new-agey "Hindu" elements to her) who converted to islam after marrying Saif-Ali Khan, while Amrita's similar conversion to islam when she married Khan merely meant she converted into her mother's religion.



Personally, I think marriages between christian - esp. catholic - women and islamic men in India (such as that of Malaika and Kareena) is not only a "wonderful testimony" to secularism - as christomedia might say - but also reflects the close ideological bond christoislamism has in India. Also am of the opinion that precisely such hook-ups should be encouraged in India. Films like that Ghajjini, which Tarun Vijay went gaga over and which featured the catholic Syrian actress and some Khan, seems to have encouraged more such pairings. :yay:



Hindus need not lament Amrita returning to her mother's islam or Kareena returning fully to monotheism (whether Kareena is not allowed to attend catholic mass anymore is not relevant to Hindus). Neither really concerns Hindoos.

[Husky]

First to get this bit out of the way.

Missed this in the above:



en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malaika_Arora_Khan

(catholic) Malaika Arora Khan [...] completed her secondary education at Swami Vivekanand School in Chembur. Her aunt, Grace Polycarp, was the principal of the school.

How is it that christoislamics keep getting to worm their way to taking over Hindu schools and universities?





Post 1/?



The rest of this sequence of posts are tangentially related to several things I'd come across.



A while back, news on Stephen Hawking's statements mentioned "Zayn Malik" and "New Direction" and "end of the world". I thought it was some professor with some theory.

Turns out New Direction is a Brit boy-band (apparently this is still a thing?) and Malik is some member in it. "The end of the world" bit was just a headline grabber about him leaving the band and presumably leaving fans in tears.





Malik is some badly turned out half-Brit half-Paki hybrid: his British mum converted to islamania and raised the kids as faithful islamics. Malik himself stands to repeat his dad's achievement with his own British fionce, who will doubtless convert or be subtly islamised upon marriage.



More relevant to the purpose of the post is that Malik has been caught tweeting "free palestine" - and apparently retweeting islamic terrorists too - and advertising his islam via uttering the shahada and wishing fans a happy ramzan (which American conservatives read as his attempt to influence his [obviously-western] female fandom into subtle islamisation.

• huffingtonpost.com/2012/06/19/zayn-malik-of-popular-british-boy-band-accused-of-advancing-islam_n_1605799.html
  
  
• which links to:
  
  
• debbieschlussel.com/50331/mega-pop-star-pimping-islam-on-your-daughters/
  
  
• (also related: debbieschlussel.com/73588/zayn-malik-one-directioner-loves-hamas-whines-about-death-threats-but-not-those-his-fans-sent-me-michelle-malkin-gushed-over-him-like-child-molester/
  
  

I don't care about islamics peddling islamania in western climes or christians peddling christinsanity in islamic climes.



But I find it interesting that christians and islamics both in India and outside flaunt their religion and - except for extreme American conservatists as above - society thinks it's fine and cool and interesting.



In contrast if you look at bollywho, everyone is allergic to any kind of heathenism. They are all secular, unless they are christoislamic, in which case they happily attend mass or ask their unsaved kaffir spouse to convert and/or baptise the kids.



The overall question of my posts is whether there are any "stars" that are actually Hindu among the younger generations, and whether there is a definite unspoken rule or subconscious influence (secularisation) of how it becomes unacceptable to be Hindu among these, even as it is okay for christoislamics to continue to flaunt - subtly or not - their christoislamism and even their inculturation.

This is comparable to how christos can appear with crosses on programmes (saw some panelist/judge wearing a cross in some Indian idol programme on TV on my last visit to India), but Hindus can't wear the bindi or veebooti or namam etc. Initially the first started as an actual discouragement by higher-ups in the tv programming depts, but now it's self-censorship. Further, as Rajeev Srinivasan also noted in his blog or its twitterfeed, christians in India can be seen on TV wearing Hindu saree and bindi and pretending they are upholders of the culture they have banned with calculation among Hindus on TV.



This trend seems to parallel in how most/all younger actors of Hindu ancestry in bollypoo range from unsympathetic to virulently anti-Hindu (e.g. on Hindu nationalist female on twitter has as twitter description that Deepika "MyChoice/MyVoice" Padukone and Ranbir Something had blocked her or something). In contrast, every christoislamic is a total promoter of christianism.





The western idol above - the British-Paki Malik - is an example of an islamic in the western context. But young American christians "stars" advertising their christianism abound (I can't remember the names but it's always in the news), and this is very much encouraged and fostered by American christianism, as they are eyeing keeping subsequent generations christian via their trash pop-culture.



I'm not advocating that Hindus spread Hindu heathenism via Indian pop-culture in India - seems pointless. But I just want to know to what extent Hindu-origin stars are (original unsubtly, but now more subtly discouraged - via secularism dismissing only heathenism as lowly religion - from being) Hindu in India, and what fallout this has had on the presence of Hindus in "pop-culture" and whether any/what proportion of younger generations of Hindu-origin "stars" are Hindu, and how this may reflect on their fandom and be representative of younger generations in general. It is known that every generation of Hindu-origin youngsters in India beats the previous in being more secular, more anti-Hindu, more de-heathenisend yet always more christoconditioned [including in their atheism], i.e. less able to even properly understand/perceive heathenism, yet more able to understand christoislam (even when critiquing it, as if they're post-christians like the west, having never had a Hindu intermediate stage; they're actually post-Hindus who were christoconditioned and hence are post-christian).

[Husky]

Post 2/?



The Hindu dad and catholic mum of catholic Malika Arora Khan divorced at an early age for her:



en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malaika_Arora_Khan

Early life and background

Malaika Arora Khan was born in Thane, Maharashtra. Her parents divorced when she was 11 years old and the family shifted to Chembur.

The same seems a regular pattern in such marriages.



[quote name='Husky' date='18 May 2015 - 11:18 PM' timestamp='1431970835' post='117741']

mumbaimirror.com/others/sunday-read/Starry-succour/articleshow/47313454.cms

Speaking of a time when she saw saw a reason to live and was contemplating suicide, she found hope in the Bible. Mumbai pastor Shekhar Kalyanpur who runs the New Life Fellowship out of Juhu took her under his wing before she volunteered to be reborn as a follower of Christ.

[...] Baptised in 2007, Naghma took a break from films and claims to have spent every spare minute reading the Bible, and touring little known districts of South India, especially Andhra Pradesh, sharing her testimony of conversion. (aka "witnessing for christ"=missionising) Born to Muslim mother and Hindu father, on Christmas, Naghma believes Christianity always had a special place in her life. She isn't sure if she will return to cinema, when she says, "I have experienced a lot, and I think I will now have no time for anyone or anything but the Lord."

[/quote]



This is a standard tactic christianism uses in India: market christianism as the peaceful 'middle path' between Hindoo heathenism=paganism='satanism' and islamic 'extremism'.



I googled Naghma (a really creepy-looking Paki star appears). That's not the creep in question.



Apparently the christist's name for a non-christian audience is spelled "Nagma"? Avoid the pictures of the hideous entity that appear.



Some details are interesting:



en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nagma

Born Nandita Arvind Morarji

25 December 1974 (age 40)

Mumbai, India

[...]



Nagma's biological father was Arvind Pratapsinh Morarji whose forefathers hailed from a royal background from Jaisalmer, later migrating to Gujarat, Porbandar, then Mumbai.

[...]

Her mother hailed from the Konkan region of Maharashtra. She belonged to the Kazi freedom fighter family and her original name was Shama Kazi, but she is now known as Seema. She who married Morarji in 1969 at the CCI Club in Mumbai, but separated from him in 1973.

[...]



After divorcing Morarji in August 1973, Nagma's mother married Chander Sadanah, a film producer in March 1975 with whom she had three children: two daughters, Radhika (settled in the USA) and Jyothika (an actress). Through her biological father, who had remarried earlier, Nagma has two half-brothers, Dhanraj and Yuvraj.[4]

Mum's of the lineage of a "Kazi" also spelled "Qazi" and "Ghazi". Now isn't that a title assumed by islamics, meaning "killer of kaffirs"? Yes, look even indiafacts admits as much: look for "ghazi" here.

"Freedom fighter", yeah right.



A bit confused how Naghma's mom gave birth to Naghma in Dec 1974 when she had divorced Naghma's dad in August 1973... Unless they were still on sleeping terms? Alternatively, that was a really really really long pregnancy for a human. "Must be a jeebus miracle", no?



Maybe back in 1974 biology wasn't compulsory and so Indian men believed stories they were told about how they could have sired kids that take over 15 or 16 months to be born?



Oh, is the implausible sounding date discrepancy the reason for this apologetics:

Nagma remained close to her biological father until his death on 31 December 2005.[5] She explained to a Mumbai reporter that "I am proud of the fact that I belong to a respectable family. My mother was legally married to my father, the late Shri Arvind Morarji, at a public function at the CCI Club, Mumbai."

I don't care either way about "respectability" (none of my business), but methinks she is stressing the point too loudly - drawing way too much unnecessary attention to it (clearly it bothers her) considering the dubiousness of the timing.



Or is the above - pretending she knew her 'biological father' (presumably Morarji) - merely an excuse to claim she's tried a Hindu upbringing too? I mean, her mother and "father" divorced over a year plus at least 3 months (=15+ months) before she was even born, so methinks she may not have known him that well. And if she had but little Hindu upbringing, that would make her a muslim, and advertising that she picked christianism over islam is no great feat in a "Hindu majority" country like India.

[...]

Although the boutique was highly successful and an instant hit, she had to shut it down in 2003 as she had to be by the side of her ailing father while simultaneously honoring her bhojpuri and other language film commitments apart from her spiritual quest, then teaching Art of Living.



She has been romantically linked with former India captain Sourav Ganguly in the past.[8]



She has converted to Christianity.[citation needed]



(Yes, lots of dabblers in the new agey movements of Art of Living and Transcendental Levitation/Meditation become christians.)

More interestingly:

Born Nandita Arvind Morarji

25 December 1974 (age 40)

Mumbai, India

Other names Nagma Sadanah

Years active 1990–2008

Religion Christianity

Relatives Jyothika (sister) Suriya (Brother-in-law)

1. Wackypedia always lists the religion of popular christian stars in unconverted Asian countries. E.g. can see in the case of S Korean converts.

Few S Korean Buddhists etc get identified by their religion (not until the convert, in any case).



Do Hindus' religion ever get listed? Are there any youngsters that are so recognisably Hindu (as opposed to apologetic and only 'Hindu' for their wedding ceremony) that even wikipedia lists this?



2. So Naghma's sister is "Jyothika". Jyothika is that fellow non-southern-origin actor in southern Indian movies of whom an IF member (Shamu?) said she was a muslimah who had married a Tamil actor Surya - of Hindu ancestry - which actor converted to islam (and his Hindu screen name is spelled in a way that feigns islam).



So Nagma would then have been raised muslim too like her sister Jyothika.

That is, Nagma apostasised from islam into christianism. Nothing Hindu about her.



3. And Nagma looks identical to Jyothika IMO , so maybe Nagma's biological dad was husband #2 of their shared mum: "Chander Sadanah", whom their mother married in march 1975 within 3 to 4 months of Nagma's birth. Her mother must surely have taken some time to get to know him before deciding to marry him? Was it long ago enough to conceive Nagma?



(Googling that surname Sadanah, to work out what religion it is, since Chander is spelled a little oddly: the surname occurs in some director called "Brij Sadanah" born in Pakistan who married a muslim woman, fathered islamic children, then killed his wife and himself in Mumbai on his son Kamal's birthday. Swell family.



en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brij_Sadanah whose wife was "Sayeeda Khan" and "Siblings: Vijay Sadanah, Chander Sadanah"



^Oh look^, Nagma's islamic mum married the brother. Seems to be a family for marrying muslimahs.



The son is another interesting case:



en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kamal_Sadanah

Parents: Sayeeda Khan, Brij Sadanah

Siblings: Shagufta Rafique, Namrata

Spouse: Lisa John

Bollywho cinema is one big looney bin of "Hindus" who

- marry muslimahs whose kids become/marry christians.

- marry christians whose kids become christian/marry muslims (Malika Arora Khan).



But I've diverged from the point of this post:

Nagma - though far more of a muslim turned christian (a.o.t. a Hindu turned christian) - is witnessing for christianism, i.e. missionising, like the other christian "stars" listed at

mumbaimirror.com/others/sunday-read/Starry-succour/articleshow/47313454.cms



That she and the others at that link are openly christian is a foregone conclusion, as are so many missionary christian actors like Syrian christian Asin (whom "Hindu nationalist" journalist Tarun Vijay is or at least was extremely infatuated with) and indeed most every christian Indian actor.



Are there even any among younger generations of Hindus who are in Indian 'pop-culture' who are not secular Hindus but actual Hindus, i.e. openly so (since Hindu marks are public by nature)? I suppose there was that Miss India from Kerala, Parvati Omanikutty (sorry, I can't be sure of her surname) but models don't count so much as their visibility to others/sphere of influence is more limited - unless they turn to acting, which many in India do I suppose.

[Husky]

Post 3/?





I had thought a recent swarajamag article link mentioning Bollywho to be one of that consistent but minimal stream of secular/unHindu even anti-Hindu articles that Swarajyamag now and again releases among its wider output range. E.g. earlier this site had a commie article promoting Doniger and Doniger type views on Hindoo scriptures and Indic imagery, more recently it was peddling an article of "muslims" who made medieval Krishna "art" (uh, as the comments pointed out the style was Persian not islamic and the style may have trended in the medieval period in parts of India, but it never compared to proper Hindoo imagery either in excellence or accuracy. It was an earlier lowpoint of Hindu "art", the present seeing the lowest yet - though there is fortunately also still traditional Hindoo imagery being made by HindOOs.)



Turns out there is too little info available to non-subscribers in the following swarajyamag article to draw any conclusions on whether it is popcorn else subversive junk or something less offensive. But it turns out to have - or point to - useful data for this set of posts:



swarajyamag.com/magazine/boy-next-door-in-bollywood/

Dhanush, with his ordinary looks, rail-thin physique, and scruffy appearance, seems to be a very unlikely candidate to make it big in Bollywood. What is this Tamil star's secret?

(The rest of the article is for subscribers only and I doubt it's remotely interesting.)



Dhanush's religion turns out to be listed at wackypedia as Hinduism. That's a first... (that I remember noticing)



His father in law is apparently Rajnikanth, the honorary Tamizh who is actually from Maharashtra like Shivaji himself. Also like the arch-heathen Shivaji, Rajnikanth is known to be a heathen (aren't all Maharashtrians? Aren't they famous for their Hindu heathenism?) Rajnikanth himself doesn't count as a data point as he's of an older, more Hindoo generation. Yet, his influence is apparently to be seen on his son-in-law: pictures showed Dhanush wearing a Rudraksha and it seems he got this from Rajnikanth. Rajnikanth's daughters (he seems to have more than one) would be Hindoo, being raised by the likes of Rajni (and I'm guessing Rajni's wife would be a devout Hindoo too).



BTW, Rajnikanth's daughters seem to take after their mother in terms of skintone - being fair (in Indian terms) - as happens with many Indian offspring where one parent is fair. Sometimes the kids are even fairer. (And when Indians move west they often turn several shades lighter.) <snip> Why does that even happen, and so regularly nowadays among Indians? I know the genetics behind skin colour is deemed complicated, but is fairness really that additive with Indians? More importantly: Are darker colours endangered in India? But darker skintones look so nice on Indian men and women... I like Hindoo ancestors having brought forth multi-coloured litters. It's our claim to fame, one of our main sources of phenotypical diversity. Will Dhanush' kids also end up looking more like their mother in this? (Surely she married him so they can take after him?) Sigh.





[

Totally off-topic, but -

I don't know why the swarajyamag article intro is negating Indian men's assets via her description of Dhanush:



- looking ordinary: he looks "ordinary" only in the sense of a cuteness rather all too common in India. But common still doesn't negate the cuteness. Sure there are more common looks that are even cuter (like slightly wavier hair being more common in TN, no less fetching) but Dhanush is hands-down better looking than the bollywho khans by far, not to mention the murderously-ugly Pakistani contingent parked on campus: yikes, must be inbreds.

Plus he has facial features and genetics which will make him look younger for way longer than the christoislamaniacs infesting bollywho.



- scruffy appearance: scruffy yet still cute. Now that's a skill. Perhaps it even adds to the cuteness? See it all the time among Indian men. They look pleasant after they wake up in the morning, when they've fallen down, when they've rolled off a hill. So, be it unkempt or dusted off, they're aesthetically pleasing.



- rail-thin physique: uh, Hindoo men totally *own* the lanky look. They make it into an asset, like Japanese men (who are often thinner, btw) do.

Can contrast with the scrawny look doing nothing for Dutch male youth - each leg half the width of their female counterparts [which made Dutch female teens feel "fat"], the females look/feel broader, and certainly more intimidating. (Hopefully the Dutch males outgrow this, as it made them look weak.) Indian and Japanese men, despite many being naturally lanky, look masculine and like they'll stand their ground.



The laughable puffed-up look of bollywho actors (like you can deflate them by jabbing a needle into them - and who doesn't want to?) is tacky and disgusting, and makes them look fat moreover. It certainly doesn't look natural.



Whereas Hindoo men innately have a nice shoulder-to ratio. And not looking like an over-inflated he-man from bollypoo, doesn't mean Hindoo men don't look naturally built and masculine. It's a very unaffected hence cool look seen in every young Hindoo male in TN and KN that I ever remember looking at long enough to notice.

Hindoo men look best natural. A.o.t. bollypoo males who have that salman khan/hritik roshan blow-up doll look going. (Who even came up with that crazy trend and which idiot Indian woman thought it worth encouraging? Oh wait, must have been christoislamics: they have no taste. Native Indian men are wasted on them after all.)

]





Anyway,

- whether Dhanush has remained Hindu because of his heathen father-in-law, who originates in the regions of the hyper-heathen Shivaji, and because of his consequently Hindoo wife,

- or whether he was always consciously Hindu without requiring external reinforcement (in TN and other southern states, heathenism is still deeply embedded among the insubvertible among the laity who are yet many in number, but don't know whether any of this applies among cine stars/those who would be cine stars or other Indian pop culture icons),

- or whether it still early days and one can't tell whether he will do what other modern Hindus do: de-heathenise (one never can tell with today's Hindus how far their loyalty to their Gods is innate hence constant, or if something may be able to subvert them at any time),



whatever the reason and be it permanent or temporal,

that's at least one apparently (somewhat) popular Indian actor who is still known to be Hindu anno 2015. Though any actual Hindoo in India would be wearing kungamam/veebuti/namam/chandanam markings at all times (or when off-camera, in Dhanush' case).





ADDED:

Unexpected. Turns out anti-Hindu "Kamal Hassan" (actually Kamala hAsan) - dubbed atheist, but of the peculiarly anti-Hindu, beef-eating, progressive variety -

has a daughter who's actually a Hindu.

Figure she must have inherited that from the mother, who's apparently Marathi-and-Rajput (aren't these supposed to be hyper heathens from both ends?) and who at least got divorced from him.



Wackypedia mentions her religion as Hinduism, but that may mean nothing. This however, in the catholic rag:



deccanchronicle.com/131120/entertainment-kollywood/article/shruti-haasan-loves-visiting-temples

Shruti Haasan loves visiting temples

DC | Anupama Subramanian | November 20, 2013, 14.11 pm IST



Unlike her father Ulaganayagan Kamal Haasan, who is an atheist and a rational thinker, Shruti Haasan seems to believe in God and visits temples whenever she finds time. Shruti visited Chilkur Balaji Temple near Hyderabad and she performed 108 pradhakshanams. The star has also paid a visit to Sai Baba Temple at Shridi.



She wrote in her microblogging website, “My first time to Shirdi — amazing darshan at the Sai Baba mandir! What a Sunday!”

(That's still something Hindus do.)

The actress was also raving about enjoying home food at her aunt’s place at Mumbai where she took a break for a while. She tweeted, “Visited my beautiful athai, atthimber and anna in Chembur — finally some real dosa and thakkali thogayal in Mumbai! Memories, love family. Kartigai deepam in the Chembur Murugan kovil, today has been a spectacular day.”

[...]

While the article's title and that last line sound like they could also pass for the "temple culture" new age groups, "108 pradakshinams" around a kovil are a Hindoo ritual practise.

Suppose the anti-Hindu Kamal Hassaan made a mistake in allowing his daughter to be named "Shruti Rajalakshmi".



While I can't recognise her from one picture to another - either she looks different in all of them or there's nothing distinctive to her that I can anchor/identify her with - she looks like what I used to think Iranians would look like (though it's not what they look like): very fair with dark hair.* Must have got that from her mother's side. Looks nothing like Kamal Hassaan. Her original nose was probably from her dad, but she's replaced it with one that's made her face popular. Actually, that might partly explain why she looks very different all the time/hard to recognise.

*Though her actual features are specifically very Indian; especially not uncommon in southern regions.



[She has a sister "Akshara" that's like a twin but with grey eyes. Must have got that from the mother too. Confirmed (pic of mother when young).]



Of course none of this means that either Dhanush or Shruti are insubvertible Hindoos. Again: she might for instance marry some christoislamic and convert out, and he may subvert in time (ya never know) - as so many do. But as at the last seen dates they seemed to have been Hindus. So, although not as common or as visible to the public as the in-your-face christianism in India, there are some actors (in and partially of TN) who are Hindu at this stage.

Since I've found 2 without much looking, there may be more.



Since more Hindu-origin actors in films in TN may still be (somewhat) Hindu, Bollywho is a separate question.



Intriguing: catholicism tried to ban a movie their mother did about a decade back:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sacred_Evil_%E2%80%93_A_True_Story

Political



The Catholic Secular Forum demanded a separate screening of the film as they said that it promoted witchcraft and violence and indoctrinated the people in evil. There were warnings of possible arson and violence.[5]

References



"'Sacred Evil' a no-no for non-believers". Monsters and Critics. 2006-06-03. Retrieved 2010-08-05.

Mishra, Anshika (2006-05-29). "The ‘faithful’ will watch Sacred Evil - Mumbai - DNA". Dnaindia.com. Retrieved 2010-08-05.

"Sacred Evil : Movie Review". Glamsham.com. Retrieved 2010-08-05.

"Sacred Evil: Promo Watch". Bollywoodhungama.com. 2006-05-04. Retrieved 2010-08-05.

Mishra, Ankit (2006-05-16). "Catholic groups now target ‘Sacred Evil’ - Entertainment - DNA". Dnaindia.com. Retrieved 2010-08-05.

Where's the "freedom of expression" crusaders, like Doniger and co?





dnaindia.com/entertainment/report-catholic-groups-now-target-sacred-evil-1029609

Catholic groups now target ‘Sacred Evil’

Tuesday, 16 May 2006 - 7:21pm IST



Shubha Shetty-Saha



After the hue and cry raised by Catholic organisations over ‘Da Vinci Code’ and ‘Tickle My Funny Bone’, now the Catholic Secular Forum (CSF) has asked the censor board to also ban the forthcoming film ‘Sacred Evil’.



Gerry Coelho, the general secretary of CSF has said that the Censor Board should have included a Christian member on the board when issuing a certificate to the film.



[...]

"Catholic Secular Forum". What an oxymoron. More christo-doublespeak. It's the secular arm of the church that does all the banning and suppressing of freedom of speech and expression when christianism is on the receiving end or if there's any non-christian stuff in a film.

No wonder Hindus are only ever labelled communal, since secular means catholic/christist apparently.