<!--QuoteBegin-ramana+Dec 1 2008, 02:19 AM-->QUOTE(ramana @ Dec 1 2008, 02:19 AM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->Mudy I have a special reason. We can have a guilty men of Mumbai terrorist attacks thread for those.
[right][snapback]91175[/snapback][/right]
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes, we can create pin thread with picture and description plus politicians who are footing bills for defense and their pictures. If we can dig out Indian Government officials linked with them, I will like to have that information on pin thread. Let them expose, let them make naked infornt of world.
We can create our dossiers for world to see.
I want every SOB to be exposed. No mercy
On same line we had created Every terrorist attack on India timeline, after one Israeli movie team contacted me. They were making some internet animation film on Islamist attack on World.
<b>News channel put our lives at risk: UK couple</b><!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->LONDON: A British couple caught in the Mumbai terror attacks have complained that a news channel had put their lives at risk by broadcasting their location in the Taj Mahal Hotel.
<b>Lynne and Kenneth Shaw, who live in South Wales, said that terrorists were listening in on the media to pinpoint Western victims. Lynne claimed that CNN had broadcast details of where they were at the hotel.</b>
She has appealed to the media to be careful with the information it broadcasts because safety could be compromised and lives could be lost. The couple returned to Heathrow on Saturday.
Lynne was forced to hide under a table as terrorists stormed the hotel. She and her husband were later rescued by Gurkhas and taken to the Australian embassy for safety.
The couple was at the end of a month-long visit to India and was staying in Mumbai for a few days before heading back to the UK.
âWe have been asked by the British terror police not to talk to the press. But the reason I would not want to talk to anyone is because our safety was actually compromised by CNN, which broadcast where we were,â Lynee said.
<b>âThe terrorists were watching CNN and they came down from where they were in a lift after hearing about us on TV. For that reason, I would appeal to the media to be very careful about what they broadcast.â </b>However, a CNN spokesman said: <b>âCNN has received no complaint from any individual regarding our coverage and their safety. We take such matters very seriously.â </b>
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Doctors shocked at hostages's torture
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Asked specifically if he was talking of torture marks, he said: "It was apparent that most of the dead were tortured. What shocked me were the telltale signs showing clearly how the hostages were executed in cold blood," one doctor said.
The other doctor, who had also conducted the post-mortem of the victims, said: "<b>Of all the bodies, the Israeli victims bore the maximum torture marks. It was clear that they were killed on the 26th itself. It was obvious that they were tied up and tortured before they were killed. </b>It was so bad that I do not want to go over the details even in my head again," he said.
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Those in US, call their congressman and senators. Call Obama's team as he's to appoint to Hillary as Sec of State next week. Menon's flying in to meet Obama.
Those in UK should call their MPs or local representatives.
If there's a co-ordinated effort at this point for this, please post here.
Maharashtra Navnirman Sena chief Raj Thackeray criticised BJP leaders LK Advani and Narendra Modi for playing âdirty politicsâ and lauded Congress president Sonia Gandhi for her âbalanced standâ after the Parliament attack, when the BJP was in power at the Centre.
âThey (Advani and Modi) sought to play communal politics even when police personnel were laying down their lives⦠Gandhi observed patience when Parliament was attacked,â he said in an open letter to CM Vilasrao Deshmukh. He also pointed out that there was no check on influx of people into the city. âThere has to be some check on people coming into this city⦠The way things are, anyone can get an atom bomb into this city,â he said.
He criticised the Shiv Sena, without naming it, saying it first demoralised the police and Anti-Terrorism Squad in an editorial in the party mouthpiece and the very next day came to pay homage to its officers. Thackeray signed off as âcitizen of Maharashtraâ.
<!--QuoteBegin-Viren+Dec 1 2008, 05:39 AM-->QUOTE(Viren @ Dec 1 2008, 05:39 AM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->
Those in US, call their congressman and senators. Call Obama's team as he's to appoint to Hillary as Sec of State next week. Menon's flying in to meet Obama.
Those in UK should call their MPs or local representatives.
If there's a co-ordinated effort at this point for this, please post here.
[right][snapback]91181[/snapback][/right]
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Already alerted Jewish lobby in US. Morning passed it as chain mail to all high up list.
<b>Will this be avenged ?</b>age
<i>Manmohan Singh promises to inflict âcostsâ upon Pakistan. But diplomatic obfuscation, writes G Parthasarathy, has already let Islamabad off the hook. And politics has defanged Indiaâs capacity to undertake covert, âseek and destroyâ ops across the border</i>
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin--><b>Invitation to fiasco</b>
pioneer.com
India should tell the ISI to get lost
It speaks volumes for the crisis-management capabilities of the UPA Government that it so quickly has converted a poignant moment into a fiasco. The tragedy and outrage of the Mumbai terror attacks, the gathering of evidence against Pakistan-based Islamist groups â with, almost certainly, some degree of support within Islamabadâs establishment and governing structure â the pause while the world and the nation waited for the Prime Minister to act: It was a moment that tested leadership and political acumen. Instead, the UPA Government went and invited the Inter-Services Intelligence Director-General to India. It would show him evidence of Pakistani complicity, of actions in which sections of his own agency may well be involved, and then trust him to take remedial measures. He would probably have nodded his head in approval, gone home and cleaned up the trail. The President and Prime Minister of Pakistan are as amateurish in their approach and as much in control of their country as Mr Manmohan Singh is of his; or they are plain deceitful. They first agreed to the ISI chiefâs visit, then realised there was domestic hostility to it and that it sounded, to Pakistani hardliners, like a response to a âsummonsâ from New Delhi, probably urged by Western Governments. So Islamabad has now backtracked. It has refused to send the ISI Director-General but will in fact despatch a junior-level official, a person with zero decision-making authority. Mr Singh and his rag-tag collection of advisers and Ministers have been roundly insulted by Pakistanâs establishment â as opposed to the dilettante who is nominally that countryâs President â and will now go back to doing what they should have done in the first place: Collect evidence and place it before the people of India and the Governments of the world.
<b>Mr Singhâs life and career bear testimony to the fact that he places value in perseverance and believes that repetition leads to perfection. That is why, perhaps, he travelled to Britain for a second BA despite already having got a graduateâs degree in India. As a teacher, his experience with supervising compartmental examinations may also have influenced his faith in the efficacy of repeated efforts. </b>Â <!--emo&--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->Â <!--emo&--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo--> While this may be an admirable personal philosophy, in foreign policy and management of national security, however, it is a non-starter. For two years now, following a September 2006 meeting with Gen Pervez Musharraf, Mr Singh has insisted that Pakistan and India are equal victims of terrorism and has pushed ahead with a bilateral Joint Anti-Terror Mechanism. This has become the cornerstone of his Pakistan policy and intelligence-sharing â a largely one-way process, because Islamabad reveals nothing â an article of faith.
If the JATM were a genuine forum and if India were dealing with a normal country, the invitation to the partner Governmentâs top intelligence officer would have been perfectly in order. As it happens, India is trying to make sense of Pakistan â where a toxic state, an anarchic society and a rogue military have combined to create the most lethal territorial threat to humankind since Nazi Germany. To invite the ISI chief to help solve an Islamist terror crime is the equivalent of asking Joseph Goebbels to draft a free Constitution. Everybody knows what the ISI is institutionally hardwired to do. Has nobody told the Prime Minister of India?
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
e-mail
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->After every terrorist attack, we can be sure there will be a 'nuanced' condemnation of the terrorist attack from most Muslim organizations - at least those that seek to be known as somewhat mainstream and not completely radical. Of course the Al Queda types, will rejoice openly - they have no need to pretend that they are not radical. They rather enjoy being radical.
Now if we watch the 'nuanced' condemnation coming from the Islamic organizations - we will find some common features. First it will not just be about the incident that it is condemning - It will subtly include other events as well.. Like for example... We (the Islamic society of.... etc.) condemn all acts of terrorism, against all oppressed and innocent people in all countries...blah...blah...blah.
Now by broadening the scope of what they are condemning, they will really include the oppression of the Palestinians, the suffering of the Muslims in numerous Non-Muslim countries, the injustice being done by Hindus to the Muslims of Kashmir, the victims of the Gujarat riots. In fact, it will not even be clear whom they are condemning for what.
Secondly, they will make sure that they define what they are condemning, by calling Terrorism "Acts of Violence against the innocent". Now this seems like an innocuous enough definition - but it subtly hides the fact that according to the Koran, only the Muslims are innocent. All Non-Muslims are "Guilty" for not having accepted Allah or Islam. So all Kafirs are already guilty - So they are excluded from those included in the definition of terrorism.
Thirdly, it will include a subtle warning that the rest of the world should not target all Muslims - since Islam is a religion of peace, and has been badly mis-understood. In fact, Islamophobia is raging around the world - for no reason at all; and the rest of the world is simply not making enough of an effort to accommodate Islam and understand it.
I am just recreating this, so we may watch out for these statements coming from numerous sources in the next few days. <!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<b>Where is our strategy for tackling terrorism?</b>
By Vijay Oberoi
The counter-terrorism operations in Mumbai have now been successfully completed. But this success came at a heavy cost, both in terms of loss of precious lives and destruction of infrastructure. The real loss though is the image of our country. The brave men of the NSG, which in reality is the Army, albeit incongruously with a police head, the para-commandos of the Army, the Marcos of the Navy, the helicopter pilots of the Air Force and the police have made the country proud with their gallant action and sacrifices. <b>However, people across the nation want answers to important questions, including whether we have a strategy for tackling terrorism. This terrorist attack, in a long series of such attacks at different places, is the worst the country has faced in terms of any parameter</b>.
However, this piece is not about the nature or severity of the attack but about the way the country is tackling such terrorist acts. It needs no emphasis that terrorism is the biggest threat to the unity and the sovereignty of the nation. Yet, we have learnt little after being targets of terrorist actions relentlessly over decades. <b>The leadership appears to have such a myopic outlook that its continues to view terrorism as a law and order problem, when it is actually a form of warfare.</b>
Why are we so helpless and devoid of imagination? The reason is that we have been unable to get our act together and we are dealing with this major menace in a fractured and uncoordinated manner. I am afraid this will not do. The overwhelming need is to formulate a comprehensive plan to deal effectively with terrorism.
<b>It is only the military, and more specifically the Army, which has practical experience of dealing with terrorists in different parts of the country. Yet, the Army continues to be kept out of the policy formulation loop.</b> It is, therefore, no surprise that we have failed to evolve a strategy for tackling different types of terrorist strikes. Theories are of little use in the face of practical experience. But is anyone listening? If the policy makers do not co-opt the Army in the new strategy, which hopefully would be formulated post the happenings in Mumbai, we would not have learnt any lesson from this immense tragedy.
<b>The Army will still pull the nationsâ chestnuts out of the fire, as it has been doing for the last 61 years, but possibly at an even bigger cost. Is that good enough for a country that is touted as a superpower of the future?</b>
What have we done so far in formulating a strategy to counter terrorism? Nothing really, except a lot of talk. We do not have a strategy to deal with terrorism<b>. All we do is crisis management, which is an anti-thesis of strategy and hence meaningless</b>. <b>Our intelligence agencies continue to be as clueless as ever, despite a policeman/intelligence official heading the security apparatus of the country for many years now. How ironic?</b> The Centre and states lay blame on each other, as security is a state subject.
<b>The political leadership continues to have its unwavering focus on the next elections, while the officials, both civilian administrators and police, are only concerned with gaining more and more power and pelf.</b>
A military person like me, watching the TV channels throughout these events, is struck by the chaos which was visible outside all the venues where the terrorists had struck, till the Army took over the situation. No one was apparently in command for coordinating the various operations. No formalised communication arrangements were visible, as everyone seemed to be communicating only by their mobiles. The media briefings were impromptu and only when mediapersons managed to corner a passing official. <b>This underlines the lackadaisical manner in which we have been trying to tackle such a major threat.</b>
So far, neither the political leadership, nor the Opposition parties, nor even the emergency core group or concerned bureaucrats have even hinted at a discernable plan for fighting terrorism. <b>All the government is talking about is further strengthening laws, which is just one small aspect of the totality of actions that need to be taken.</b>
So, what do we do? I propose a four-pronged approach. Firstly and most importantly, it is imperative to set up a unified command, which is fully autonomous and headed by only one person or entity. It must have full powers to act and must be given the complete wherewithal to develop and then execute a comprehensive strategy. Such an entity must have its independent chain of command to all states and further down to identified districts, regions and sub-regions. The excuse of security being a state subject must not come in the way; if necessary, the Constitution should be amended.
Secondly, the key to unravelling terrorists and their nefarious activities is a very high level of relevant and actionable intelligence, which would enable the police and other security forces to nab the terrorists before they commit dastardly acts. This needs a high degree of expertise; technical back-up; dedicated and fearless individuals, who can penetrate terrorist cells; funding; sharing of information as it is available; complete independence of action; no interference by political leaders and bureaucrats with their own agendas; and many other related actions.
Thirdly, immediate strengthening of the police forces in all states, as well as the Central police forces, if necessary with leadership from the Army and the revival of the concept of the âbeat constableâ, who was always the key functionary to feed the intelligence community. Many excuses are given as to why he is not available or why he is ineffective, but if accountability is built in and enforced and there is sufficient motivation, there is no reason for the beat constable not to regain his key position in identifying and reporting all illegal activity and presence of suspected individuals.
<b>Fourthly, there is a need for our political leadership neither to appease any community or group, nor to spread the ideology of hate, particularly through inflaming religious sentiments and class and caste distinctions. This squarely falls in the realm of the government and the political parties.</b>
None of these are unachievable, provided there is a will, centralised authority, accountability and an understanding of the magnitude of the task. We must not accept such acts passively, as we have been doing till now. <b>In case there is an international angle to it, as seems to be the case, and if political and diplomatic actions do not produce results, then it is the duty of the government to take recourse to military action.</b>
<i>Lt. Gen. Vijay Oberoi is a former vice-chief of the Indian Army</i>
We need to distinguish between terrorism and covert military attack. The former is crime while the latter is an act of war. What happened in Mumbai is an act of war not a criminal act same as 9/11 attack on USA.
Traitors of India -Paswan, Laloo and Commies are stressing we should find out or distinguish between Terrorist supported by Pakistani establishment or they are just from Pakistan.
This is very interesting question raised by traitors of India. Now my question to them, if some nuke just falls in major Pakistan City, Do Pakistani establishment will investigate whether it had Indian Government stamp or some frustrated Air force guy was drunk and dropped some goodies? Appeasement or vote bank mentality had to stop; it had done its course.
My next question if some Paki comes with dirty bomb and test near Laloo's or Pawan residence or in Calcutta, how rest of India should react, should we start collecting popcorn tins now.
How to distinguish between state sponsored or freelance?
Type of bomb, marking on bomb.
Training location.
Who was funding?
If government allows its own territory for training they are responsible for act.
Who provided logistics?
This was act of war but Moron Singh is calling or behaving otherwise, he is still in slumber.
<!--QuoteBegin-Mudy+Nov 30 2008, 09:24 PM-->QUOTE(Mudy @ Nov 30 2008, 09:24 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->TERROR-RAJ <b>Raj opens his mouth on attacks, praises Sonia, slams BJP</b>
[right][snapback]91185[/snapback][/right]
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Bal Thackeray's called for bandh on Dec 1st. Took it back after he found that there were no takers. The old man's gone senile; is there a way to do a 'bandh' of such lunatics in some senile home or asylum?
Have reports from Mumbai that politicians of all shades/colours are not welcome in certain quarters. Way to go!!
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->'Cover the body!'
November 30, 2008
At the Mumbai police headquarters everything was still. A policeman in the media room informed us, "In the evening at 5 pm there is a condolence meeting at the Police Gymkhana on Marine Drive. Please attend."
<b>The JJ mortuary was full of bodies. Outside sat four foreigners. One was from the US embassy. He went in with his colleague to check a body. The attendants brought out a body after the post-mortem on a stretcher, naked.</b> The inspector on duty screamed, "Cover the body!" The attendants rolled the body back into the mortuary.
They returned with the body draped haphazardly and wheeled it into another room. The attendants then hollered: "Raju, photographer, where are you?" Raju could not be found. Every body is photographed so that it helps in identification later.
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Here is another example of lack of professionalism.
<b>New e-mail threat to BSE, Delhi airport</b><!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->The Deccan Mujahideen which had claimed responsibility for the Mumbai terror attacks is at it again. A second e-mail threatening to blow up the Bombay Stock Exchange and the Delhi airport has been intercepted by the Gujarat police.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Why they are skipping Indian netas houses in New Delhi?
Comeon, I want to see how Netas will discuss whether it was supported by Paki establishment or they were just happy kids doing bum bum.
--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->Â <!--emo&